Trials@uspto.gov
`Tel: 571-272-7822
`
`
`
`
`
`Paper 26
`Date: January 30, 2024
`
`UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`____________
`
`BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`____________
`
`APPLE INC.,
`Petitioner,
`
`v.
`
`ZENTIAN LIMITED,
`Patent Owner.
`____________
`
`IPR2023-000331 (Patent 7,587,319 B2)
`IPR2023-000342 (Patent 7,979,277 B2)
`IPR2023-000353 (Patent 10,062,377 B2)
`IPR2023-000364 (Patent 10,839,789 B2)
`IPR2023-000375 (Patent 10,971,140 B2)
`____________
`
`Before KEVIN F. TURNER, JEFFREY S. SMITH, and
`CHRISTOPHER L. OGDEN, Administrative Patent Judges.
`
`SMITH, Administrative Patent Judge.
`
`
`ORDER6
`Setting Oral Argument
`37 C.F.R. § 42.70
`
`
`1 IPR2023-01192 has been joined to this proceeding.
`2 IPR2023-01193 has been joined to this proceeding.
`3 IPR2023-01194 has been joined to this proceeding.
`4 IPR2023-01195 has been joined to this proceeding.
`5 IPR2023-01197 has been joined to this proceeding.
`6 This Order addresses the above-referenced proceedings. The parties are
`not permitted to use this caption unless authorized by the Board.
`
`
`Tel: 571-272-7822
`
`
`
`
`
`Paper 26
`Date: January 30, 2024
`
`UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`____________
`
`BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`____________
`
`APPLE INC.,
`Petitioner,
`
`v.
`
`ZENTIAN LIMITED,
`Patent Owner.
`____________
`
`IPR2023-000331 (Patent 7,587,319 B2)
`IPR2023-000342 (Patent 7,979,277 B2)
`IPR2023-000353 (Patent 10,062,377 B2)
`IPR2023-000364 (Patent 10,839,789 B2)
`IPR2023-000375 (Patent 10,971,140 B2)
`____________
`
`Before KEVIN F. TURNER, JEFFREY S. SMITH, and
`CHRISTOPHER L. OGDEN, Administrative Patent Judges.
`
`SMITH, Administrative Patent Judge.
`
`
`ORDER6
`Setting Oral Argument
`37 C.F.R. § 42.70
`
`
`1 IPR2023-01192 has been joined to this proceeding.
`2 IPR2023-01193 has been joined to this proceeding.
`3 IPR2023-01194 has been joined to this proceeding.
`4 IPR2023-01195 has been joined to this proceeding.
`5 IPR2023-01197 has been joined to this proceeding.
`6 This Order addresses the above-referenced proceedings. The parties are
`not permitted to use this caption unless authorized by the Board.
`
`
`
`IPR2023-00033 (Patent 7,587,319 B2)
`IPR2023-00034 (Patent 7,979,277 B2)
`IPR2023-00035 (Patent 10,062,377 B2)
`IPR2023-00036 (Patent 10,839,789 B2)
`IPR2023-00037 (Patent 10,971,140 B2)
`
`
`I. ORAL ARGUMENT
`
`A. Time and Format7
`Both parties request an in person hearing at the San Jose, California
`USTPO Regional Office. See Paper 24, 1 (Petitioner’s Request for Oral
`Argument)8; Paper 25, 1 (Patent Owner’s Request for Oral Argument).
`Petitioner requests a total of forty-five (45) minutes of argument time for
`each party for each proceeding. Paper 24, 1. As an alternative, Petitioner
`requests a total of sixty (60) minutes to address IPR2023-00033 and
`IPR2023-00037, a total of seventy-five (75) minutes to address IPR2023-
`00034 and IPR2023-00035, and a total of forty-five (45) minutes to address
`IPR2023-00036. See Paper 24, 2. Patent Owner, however, does not request
`reducing the time allocated to any argument or to consolidating arguments.
`See Paper 25, 1.
`Oral arguments will commence at 10 am Pacific Time (1 pm Eastern
`Time) on March 11, 2024, for IPR2023-00033 and IPR2023-00037, and at 9
`am Pacific Time (12 pm Eastern Time) on March 12, 2024, for IPR2023-
`00034, IPR2023-0035, and IPR2023-00036, both at the San Jose, California
`USTPO Regional Office.9 The Board will provide a court reporter for the
`
`7 If a party is no longer able to appear in-person for the hearing, the party
`must contact PTABHearings@uspto.gov as soon as possible.
`8 We reference the papers filed in IPR2023-00033 that are representative of
`the above-listed cases.
`9 If there are any concerns about disclosing confidential information, the
`parties must contact the Board at Trials@uspto.gov at least ten (10) business
`days before the hearing date.
`
`2
`
`
`
`IPR2023-00033 (Patent 7,587,319 B2)
`IPR2023-00034 (Patent 7,979,277 B2)
`IPR2023-00035 (Patent 10,062,377 B2)
`IPR2023-00036 (Patent 10,839,789 B2)
`IPR2023-00037 (Patent 10,971,140 B2)
`
`hearing, and the reporter’s transcript will constitute the official record of the
`hearing.
`For each of IPR2023-00033, IPR2023-00034, IPR2023-00035,
`IPR2023-00036, and IPR2023-00037, Petitioner will have a total forty-five
`(45) minutes to present arguments and Patent Owner will have a total of
`forty-five (45) minutes to respond.
`That is, for the hearing on March 11, 2024:
`for IPR2023-00033, Petitioner will have forty-five (45) minutes to
`present arguments and Patent Owner will have forty-five (45) minutes to
`respond, and
`for IPR2023-00037, Petitioner will have forty-five (45) minutes to
`present arguments and Patent Owner will have forty-five (45) minutes to
`respond.
`For the hearing on March 12, 2024:
`for IPR2023-00034, Petitioner will have forty-five (45) minutes to
`present arguments and Patent Owner will have forty-five (45) minutes to
`respond,
`for IPR2023-00035, Petitioner will have forty-five (45) minutes to
`present arguments and Patent Owner will have forty-five (45) minutes to
`respond, and
`for IPR2023-00036, Petitioner will have forty-five (45) minutes to
`present arguments and Patent Owner will have forty-five (45) minutes to
`respond.
`
`3
`
`
`
`IPR2023-00033 (Patent 7,587,319 B2)
`IPR2023-00034 (Patent 7,979,277 B2)
`IPR2023-00035 (Patent 10,062,377 B2)
`IPR2023-00036 (Patent 10,839,789 B2)
`IPR2023-00037 (Patent 10,971,140 B2)
`
`
`Petitioner will open the hearing by presenting its case regarding the
`challenged claims for which the Board instituted trial. Thereafter, Patent
`Owner will respond to Petitioner’s argument. Petitioner may reserve
`rebuttal time to respond to arguments presented by Patent Owner. In
`accordance with the Consolidated Trial Practice Guide10 (“CTPG”), issued
`in November 2019, Patent Owner may request to reserve time for a brief sur-
`rebuttal. See CTPG 83.
`The parties may request a pre-hearing conference in advance of the
`hearing. See id. at 82. “The purpose of the pre-hearing conference is to
`afford the parties the opportunity to preview (but not argue) the issues to be
`discussed at the hearing, and to seek the Board’s guidance as to particular
`issues that the panel would like addressed by the parties.” Id. If either party
`desires a pre-hearing conference, the parties should jointly contact the Board
`at Trials@uspto.gov at least seven (7) business days before the hearing date
`to request a conference call for that purpose.
`
`B. Demonstratives
`Demonstratives shall be served on opposing counsel at least seven (7)
`business days before the hearing date and filed no later than five (5) business
`days before the hearing.
`Demonstratives are not a mechanism for making new arguments.
`Demonstratives also are not evidence, and will not be relied upon as
`
`
`10 Available at https://www.uspto.gov/TrialPracticeGuideConsolidated.
`
`4
`
`
`
`IPR2023-00033 (Patent 7,587,319 B2)
`IPR2023-00034 (Patent 7,979,277 B2)
`IPR2023-00035 (Patent 10,062,377 B2)
`IPR2023-00036 (Patent 10,839,789 B2)
`IPR2023-00037 (Patent 10,971,140 B2)
`
`evidence. Rather, demonstratives are visual aids to a party’s oral
`presentation regarding arguments and evidence previously presented and
`discussed in the papers. Accordingly, demonstratives shall be clearly
`marked with the words “DEMONSTRATIVE EXHIBIT – NOT
`EVIDENCE” in the footer. See Dell Inc. v. Acceleron, LLC, 884 F.3d 1364,
`1369 (Fed. Cir. 2018) (holding that the Board is obligated under its own
`regulations to dismiss untimely argument “raised for the first time during
`oral argument”). “[N]o new evidence may be presented at the oral
`argument.” CTPG 85; see also St. Jude Med., Cardiology Div., Inc. v. The
`Bd. of Regents of the Univ. of Mich., IPR2013-00041, Paper 65, 2–3 (PTAB
`Jan. 27, 2014) (explaining that “new” evidence includes evidence already of
`record but not previously discussed in any paper of record).
`Furthermore, because of the strict prohibition against the presentation
`of new evidence or arguments at a hearing, it is strongly recommended that
`each demonstrative include a citation to a paper in the record, which allows
`the Board to easily ascertain whether a given demonstrative contains “new”
`argument or evidence or, instead, contains only that which is developed in
`the existing record.
`Due to the nature of the Board’s consideration of demonstratives and
`the opportunity afforded for the parties to reach an agreement without
`involving the Board, the Board does not anticipate that objections to
`demonstratives are likely to be sustained. Nevertheless, to the extent that a
`party objects to the propriety of any demonstrative, the parties shall meet
`and confer in good faith to resolve any objections to demonstratives prior to
`
`5
`
`
`
`IPR2023-00033 (Patent 7,587,319 B2)
`IPR2023-00034 (Patent 7,979,277 B2)
`IPR2023-00035 (Patent 10,062,377 B2)
`IPR2023-00036 (Patent 10,839,789 B2)
`IPR2023-00037 (Patent 10,971,140 B2)
`
`filing the objections with the Board. If such objections cannot be resolved,
`the parties may file any objections to demonstratives with the Board no later
`than the time of the hearing. The objections shall identify with particularity
`which portions of the demonstratives are subject to objection (and should
`include a copy of the objected-to portions) and include a one (1) sentence
`statement of the reason for each objection. No argument or further
`explanation is permitted. The Board will consider any objections, and may
`reserve ruling on the objections.11 Any objection to demonstratives that is
`not timely presented will be considered waived.
`Finally, the parties are reminded that each presenter should identify
`clearly and specifically each paper (e.g., by slide or screen number for a
`demonstrative) referenced during the hearing to ensure the clarity and
`accuracy of the court reporter’s transcript and for the benefit of all
`participants appearing electronically.
`
`C. Presenting Counsel
`The Board generally expects lead counsel for each party to be present
`at the hearing. See CTPG 11. Any counsel of record may present the
`party’s argument as long as that counsel is present by video.
`
`D. Remote Attendance Requests
`Members of the public may request to listen to and/or view this
`hearing. If resources are available, the Board generally expects to grant such
`
`
`11 If time permits, the Board may schedule a conference call with the parties
`to discuss any filed objections.
`
`6
`
`
`
`IPR2023-00033 (Patent 7,587,319 B2)
`IPR2023-00034 (Patent 7,979,277 B2)
`IPR2023-00035 (Patent 10,062,377 B2)
`IPR2023-00036 (Patent 10,839,789 B2)
`IPR2023-00037 (Patent 10,971,140 B2)
`
`requests. If either party objects to the Board granting such requests, for
`example, because confidential information may be discussed, the party must
`notify the Board at PTABHearings@uspto.gov at least ten (10) business
`days prior to the hearing date.
`
`E. Audio/Visual Equipment Requests
`Any special requests for audio-visual equipment should be directed to
`PTABHearings@uspto.gov. A party may also indicate any special requests
`related to appearing at a video hearing, such as a request to accommodate
`deaf or hard-of-hearing individuals and blind or low vision individuals, and
`indicate how the PTAB may accommodate the special request. Any special
`requests must be presented in a separate communication at least five (5)
`business days before the hearing date.
`
`F. Legal Experience and Advancement Program
`The Board has established the “Legal Experience and Advancement
`Program,” or “LEAP,” to encourage advocates with less legal experience to
`argue before the Board to develop their skills. The Board defines a LEAP
`practitioner as a patent agent or attorney having three (3) or fewer
`substantive oral arguments in any federal tribunal, including PTAB.12
`
`
`12 Whether an argument is “substantive” for purposes of determining whether
`an advocate qualifies as a LEAP practitioner will be made on a case-by-case
`basis with considerations to include, for example, the amount of time that
`the practitioner argued, the circumstances of the argument, and whether the
`argument concerned the merits or ancillary issues.
`7
`
`
`
`IPR2023-00033 (Patent 7,587,319 B2)
`IPR2023-00034 (Patent 7,979,277 B2)
`IPR2023-00035 (Patent 10,062,377 B2)
`IPR2023-00036 (Patent 10,839,789 B2)
`IPR2023-00037 (Patent 10,971,140 B2)
`
`
`The parties are encouraged to participate in the Board’s LEAP
`program. Either party may request that a qualifying LEAP practitioner
`participate in the program and conduct at least a portion of the party’s oral
`argument. The Board will grant up to fifteen (15) minutes of additional
`argument time to that party, depending on the length of the proceeding and
`the PTAB’s hearing schedule. A party should submit a request, no later than
`at least five (5) business days before the oral hearing, by email to the Board
`at PTABHearings@uspto.gov.13
`The LEAP practitioner may conduct the entire oral argument or may
`share time with other counsel, provided that the LEAP practitioner is offered
`a meaningful and substantive opportunity to argue before the Board. The
`party has the discretion as to the type and quantity of oral argument that will
`be conducted by the LEAP practitioner.14 Moreover, whether the LEAP
`practitioner conducts the argument in whole or in part, the Board will permit
`more experienced counsel to provide some assistance to the LEAP
`practitioner, if necessary, during oral argument, and to clarify any statements
`on the record before the conclusion of the oral argument. Importantly, the
`
`
`13 Additionally, a LEAP Verification Form shall be submitted by the LEAP
`practitioner, confirming eligibility for the program. A combined LEAP
`Practitioner Request for Oral Hearing Participation and Verification Form is
`available on the LEAP website, www.uspto.gov/leap.
`14 Examples of the issues that a LEAP practitioner may argue include claim
`construction argument(s), motion(s) to exclude evidence, or patentability
`argument(s) including, e.g., analyses of prior art or objective indicia of non-
`obviousness.
`
`8
`
`
`
`IPR2023-00033 (Patent 7,587,319 B2)
`IPR2023-00034 (Patent 7,979,277 B2)
`IPR2023-00035 (Patent 10,062,377 B2)
`IPR2023-00036 (Patent 10,839,789 B2)
`IPR2023-00037 (Patent 10,971,140 B2)
`
`Board does not draw any inference about the importance of a particular issue
`or issues, or the merits of the party’s arguments regarding that issue, from
`the party’s decision to have (or not to have) a LEAP practitioner argue.
`In instances where an advocate does not meet the LEAP eligibility
`requirements due to the number of “substantive” oral hearing arguments, but
`nonetheless has a basis for considering themselves to be in the category of
`advocates that this program is intended to assist, the Board encourages
`argument by such advocates during oral hearings. Even though additional
`argument time will not be provided when the advocate does not qualify for
`LEAP, a party may share argument time among counsel and the Board will
`permit the more experienced counsel to provide some assistance, if
`necessary, during oral argument, and to clarify any statements on the record
`before the conclusion of the oral argument.
`All practitioners appearing before the Board shall demonstrate the
`highest professional standards. All practitioners are expected to have a
`command of the factual record, the applicable law, and Board procedures, as
`well as the authority to commit the party they represent.
`
`
`
`9
`
`
`
`IPR2023-00033 (Patent 7,587,319 B2)
`IPR2023-00034 (Patent 7,979,277 B2)
`IPR2023-00035 (Patent 10,062,377 B2)
`IPR2023-00036 (Patent 10,839,789 B2)
`IPR2023-00037 (Patent 10,971,140 B2)
`
`
`II. ORDER
`
`Accordingly, it is
`ORDERED that oral argument for these proceedings shall commence
`at 10 am Pacific Time (1 pm Eastern Time) on March 11, 2024, for
`IPR2023-00033 and IPR2023-00037, and at 9 am Pacific Time (12 pm
`Eastern Time) on March 12, 2024 for IPR2023-00034, IPR2023-0035, and
`IPR2023-00036, at the San Jose, California USTPO Regional Office and
`proceed in the manner set forth herein.
`
`
`
`10
`
`
`
`IPR2023-00033 (Patent 7,587,319 B2)
`IPR2023-00034 (Patent 7,979,277 B2)
`IPR2023-00035 (Patent 10,062,377 B2)
`IPR2023-00036 (Patent 10,839,789 B2)
`IPR2023-00037 (Patent 10,971,140 B2)
`
`FOR PETITIONER:
`
`Jennifer Bailey
`Jennifer.bailey@eriseip.com
`
`Adam Seitz
`Adam.seitz@eriseip.com
`
`Adam Sandwell
`Adam.sandwell@eriseip.com
`
`
`
`FOR PATENT OWNER:
`
`Peter Knops
`peter@noroozipc.com
`
`Katherine Rhoades
`Katherine.rhoades@bartlitbeck.com
`
`Kayvan Noroozi
`kayvan@noroozipc.com
`
`
`
`
`
`11
`
`
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