throbber
9/27/2023
`
`Apple, Inc. v. Masimo Corp.
`
`Telephonic Hearing
`
`Page 1
`
` UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`---------------------------------X
`APPLE, INC., :
` Plaintiff, : Case Nos.
`v. : IPR2022-01299
` : IPR2022-01291
`MASIMO CORPORATION, : IPR2022-01465
` Defendants. :
`---------------------------------X
`
` TELEPHONIC HEARING
` Wednesday, September 27, 2023
` 11:00 a.m.
`
`Reported by: Matthew Goldstein, RMR, CRR
`________________________________________________
` DIGITAL EVIDENCE GROUP
` 1730 M Street, NW, Suite 812
` Washington, D.C. 20036
` (202) 232-0646
`
`www.DigitalEvidenceGroup.comDigital Evidence Group C'rt 2023
`
`202-232-0646
`
`MASIMO 2102
`Apple v. Masimo
`IPR2022-01465
`
`

`

`9/27/2023
`
`Apple, Inc. v. Masimo Corp.
`
`Telephonic Hearing
`
`Page 2
`
` A P P E A R A N C E S
` THE PANEL:
` GEORGE HOSKINS, Administrative Patent
` Judge United States Patent and Trademark
` Office
`
` -and-
`
` ROBERT POLLOCK, Administrative Patent
` Judge United States Patent and Trademark
` Office
`
` -and-
`
` JOSIAH COCKS, Administrative Patent
` Judge United States Patent and Trademark
` Office
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`
`6 7
`
`8 9
`
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`
`www.DigitalEvidenceGroup.comDigital Evidence Group C'rt 2023
`
`202-232-0646
`
`MASIMO 2102
`Apple v. Masimo
`IPR2022-01465
`
`

`

`9/27/2023
`
`Apple, Inc. v. Masimo Corp.
`
`Telephonic Hearing
`
`Page 3
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`
` A P P E A R A N C E S C O N T I N U E D
` ON BEHALF OF THE PETITIONER:
` NICHOLAS W. STEPHENS, ESQUIRE
` FISH & RICHARDSON, P.C.
` 60 South 6th Street
` Suite 3200
` Minneapolis, Minnesota 55402
` 612.766.2018
`
` -and-
`
` ANDREW B. PATRICK, ESQUIRE
` 1000 Maine Avenue, SW
` Washington, D.C. 20024
` 202.626.7735.
`
` -and-
`
` KIM LEUNG, ESQUIRE
` 12860 El Camino Real
` Suite 400
` San Diego, California 92130
`
`www.DigitalEvidenceGroup.comDigital Evidence Group C'rt 2023
`
`202-232-0646
`
`MASIMO 2102
`Apple v. Masimo
`IPR2022-01465
`
`

`

`9/27/2023
`
`Apple, Inc. v. Masimo Corp.
`
`Telephonic Hearing
`
` A P P E A R A N C E S C O N T I N U E D
`
`Page 4
`
` ON BEHALF OF THE PATENT OWNER:
` CAROL PITZEL CRUZ, ESQUIRE
` KNOBBE MARTENS
` 925 4th Avenue
` Suite 2500
` Seattle, Washington 98104
` 206.405.2000
`
` -and-
`
` TED M. CANNON, ESQUIRE
` DANIEL KIANG, ESQUIRE
` 2040 Main Street
` 14th Floor
` Irvine, California 92614
` 949.760.0404
`
`1
`
`2 3
`
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`
`www.DigitalEvidenceGroup.comDigital Evidence Group C'rt 2023
`
`202-232-0646
`
`MASIMO 2102
`Apple v. Masimo
`IPR2022-01465
`
`

`

`9/27/2023
`
`Apple, Inc. v. Masimo Corp.
`
`Telephonic Hearing
`
`Page 5
` JUDGE HOSKINS: Good morning, everyone.
`This is Administrative Patent Judge George Hoskins
`with the Patent Trial and Appeal Board.
` We're here today for a phone call in
`three somewhat related proceedings. So they are
`IPR2022-01291 and 1465, which are more closely
`related than the third case, which is
`IPR2022-01299.
` My two colleagues on the panel for these
`cases are here today so those are Robert Pollock
`and Josiah Cocks. And with that, I'm hoping to
`get some appearances from both parties and we'll
`start with petitioner. And if you could, as part
`of your appearance, let us know whether you have a
`court reporter transcribing this phone call.
`Thank you.
` MR. STEPHENS: Thank you, Your Honors.
`This is Nick Stephens from Fish & Richardson on
`behalf of petitioner, Apple. I'm here on the call
`with my colleagues, Andrew Patrick and Kim Leung.
`All of us are counsel on these proceedings.
` JUDGE HOSKINS: Thanks. And --
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`
`www.DigitalEvidenceGroup.comDigital Evidence Group C'rt 2023
`
`202-232-0646
`
`MASIMO 2102
`Apple v. Masimo
`IPR2022-01465
`
`

`

`9/27/2023
`
`Apple, Inc. v. Masimo Corp.
`
`Telephonic Hearing
`
`Page 6
` MR. STEPHENS: We did not bring a -- I'm
`sorry, Your Honor.
` JUDGE HOSKINS: No worries. Please go
`ahead.
` MR. STEPHENS: We did not bring a court
`reporter, but our understanding is that patent
`owner did arrange for a court reporter to be
`present.
` JUDGE HOSKINS: Okay. Thank you.
` And so then let's go get an appearance
`from patent owner, please.
` MS. PITZEL CRUZ: Good morning, Your
`Honor. This is Carol Pitzel Cruz from Knobbe
`Martens for patent owner. And with me I also have
`my colleagues, Ted Cannon and Daniel Kiang. And
`as petitioner noted, we do have a court reporter
`on the line.
` JUDGE HOSKINS: Thank you. And welcome
`to the board, everyone.
` So as in previous cases, Ms. Pitzel
`Cruz, could you please, when we're done here, file
`a copy of the transcript that gets generated as an
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`
`www.DigitalEvidenceGroup.comDigital Evidence Group C'rt 2023
`
`202-232-0646
`
`MASIMO 2102
`Apple v. Masimo
`IPR2022-01465
`
`

`

`9/27/2023
`
`Apple, Inc. v. Masimo Corp.
`
`Telephonic Hearing
`
`Page 7
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`
`exhibit in the cases?
` MS. PITZEL CRUZ: Of course, Your Honor.
` JUDGE HOSKINS: Okay. Thank you.
` So we have a number of things to discuss
`and so I have an agenda here in front of me. What
`I intend to do is have -- put a little bit of
`structure and go through point by point. But just
`to make sure I don't miss anything, please follow
`along and at the end, we'll circle back and if I
`missed something or if there's perhaps something
`that hasn't been previously addressed in the
`various e-mails, you know, we'll have a chance at
`the end to kind of go through those things.
` But I want to start first with the
`agenda items that have been set via various e-mail
`communications. And we're going to go through
`point by point so just bear with me, I just want
`to put some structure to the conversation.
` So the first item on my agenda is
`petitioner's request to file a motion to file a
`corrected petition in the 1291 and 1465 cases.
`And I want to start with Ms. Pitzel Cruz on this
`
`www.DigitalEvidenceGroup.comDigital Evidence Group C'rt 2023
`
`202-232-0646
`
`MASIMO 2102
`Apple v. Masimo
`IPR2022-01465
`
`

`

`9/27/2023
`
`Apple, Inc. v. Masimo Corp.
`
`Telephonic Hearing
`
`Page 8
`because as I understand it from the e-mails, there
`is no objection to this particular request and so
`I just want to ask do I have that correct,
`Ms. Pitzel Cruz?
` MS. PITZEL CRUZ: Thank you, Your Honor.
`We're busy working on our surreplies and so we're
`not opposing Apple's request for that motion. We
`leave the decision to the board.
` JUDGE HOSKINS: Okay. Fair enough.
` And so we're going to go ahead and just
`grant at this phone call petitioner's request to
`file a corrected petition. There's no need to
`file a motion. What we'll do is we'll file a copy
`of the e-mail from petitioner as an exhibit in
`those two cases. And then just as a result of
`this telephone conference, Mr. Stephens, you have
`authorization to file a corrected petition as you
`described in those e-mails. I'm not going to give
`you a deadline for that because we have an awful
`lot going on in these cases and I don't want to
`set a false fire alarm, but just don't dawdle on
`it too much.
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`
`www.DigitalEvidenceGroup.comDigital Evidence Group C'rt 2023
`
`202-232-0646
`
`MASIMO 2102
`Apple v. Masimo
`IPR2022-01465
`
`

`

`9/27/2023
`
`Apple, Inc. v. Masimo Corp.
`
`Telephonic Hearing
`
`Page 9
` So with that, do you have any questions
`about that, Mr. Stephens?
` MR. STEPHENS: Understood. Thank you,
`Your Honor. We appreciate that. No, and I do
`expect we can get this filed by the end of the
`week just so it's completed.
` JUDGE HOSKINS: Okay. Thank you.
` So then the next item on my agenda is
`the case schedule for all three cases. And so we
`have had a chance to review the e-mail sent
`yesterday from the parties with a jointly proposed
`schedule for both cases. And that schedule looks
`good to the board. And so I just want to ask if
`there's -- so the board is inclined to just enter
`that as the case schedule for all three cases.
`And with that kind of information, let me ask;
`Mr. Stephens, do you have anything to add on that
`front in terms of deadlines?
` MR. STEPHENS: We do not, Your Honor.
`We were able to -- as you noted from the e-mail
`sent yesterday by patent owner's counsel, I
`believe we're in agreement on those dates. And so
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`
`www.DigitalEvidenceGroup.comDigital Evidence Group C'rt 2023
`
`202-232-0646
`
`MASIMO 2102
`Apple v. Masimo
`IPR2022-01465
`
`

`

`9/27/2023
`
`Apple, Inc. v. Masimo Corp.
`
`Telephonic Hearing
`
`Page 10
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`
`Apple is amenable to the schedule set forth in
`that table for all three cases.
` JUDGE HOSKINS: Okay. And, Ms. Pitzel
`Cruz, any further thoughts on that?
` MS. PITZEL CRUZ: No, Your Honor.
` JUDGE HOSKINS: Okay. Thank you.
` So let me just say then the one caveat
`with respect to that schedule is the date for oral
`argument. We as a panel proffered three dates and
`the parties came back with November 17th, which
`would work for the panel, but the caveat here is
`that we need to then now go to the hearings
`support staff and make sure that that date works
`on the board's calendar.
` So, you know, we think that will work
`and we don't really have any reason to expect it
`won't, but there is that little caveat that we
`haven't done everything that we need to do at this
`point to officially confirm it. So after this
`phone call, we'll circle back with the hearing
`folks and whatever the result of that is you'll
`see in a hearing order that goes out for all three
`
`www.DigitalEvidenceGroup.comDigital Evidence Group C'rt 2023
`
`202-232-0646
`
`MASIMO 2102
`Apple v. Masimo
`IPR2022-01465
`
`

`

`9/27/2023
`
`Apple, Inc. v. Masimo Corp.
`
`Telephonic Hearing
`
`Page 11
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`
`cases.
`
` Let me just say on that front, we have
`noted that there's a little of a disagreement
`between the two parties in terms of the request
`for the format of the hearing in all three cases.
`Petitioner has asked for a video conference
`hearing and patent owner has asked for a live
`hearing in person in Alexandria. And so the panel
`really hasn't decided what is the best way to go
`on this, but I just want to give at this time both
`parties a chance to kind of tell us why they want
`their respective requests to be granted.
` So I'll start with Mr. Stephens. So,
`Mr. Stephens, why is it that you have asked for a
`video hearing as opposed to a live hearing?
` MR. STEPHENS: Sure. Thank you, Your
`Honor. I think it was primarily driven by just
`logistics. We have parties from -- or members of
`our team from across the country, three time
`zones, and we believed that the oral -- the video
`hearings have been effective in the past and we
`thought that would be appropriate in this case --
`
`www.DigitalEvidenceGroup.comDigital Evidence Group C'rt 2023
`
`202-232-0646
`
`MASIMO 2102
`Apple v. Masimo
`IPR2022-01465
`
`

`

`9/27/2023
`
`Apple, Inc. v. Masimo Corp.
`
`Telephonic Hearing
`
`Page 12
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`
`these cases as well.
` JUDGE HOSKINS: Thank you.
` And so, Ms. Pitzel Cruz?
` MS. PITZEL CRUZ: Thank you, Your Honor.
`We felt that it would be helpful to be in person
`to be able to interact with the board in person
`and so that is why we put that request in for the
`in-person argument.
` JUDGE HOSKINS: Okay. And it was
`Alexandria, right, that's where you would be
`looking to be if we went that route?
` MS. PITZEL CRUZ: If that's a convenient
`location for the board, yes.
` JUDGE HOSKINS: Okay. Thank you.
` So we'll take all that into
`consideration and we'll let you know in our -- in
`a hearing order that will come out shortly which
`way we're going to go. So thank you for that.
` Okay. And I think -- so then I have now
`my last item in terms of unresolved issues on my
`list is then the length of some of the briefings
`that are going to be filed in the 1291 and 1465
`
`www.DigitalEvidenceGroup.comDigital Evidence Group C'rt 2023
`
`202-232-0646
`
`MASIMO 2102
`Apple v. Masimo
`IPR2022-01465
`
`

`

`9/27/2023
`
`Apple, Inc. v. Masimo Corp.
`
`Telephonic Hearing
`
`Page 13
`cases. So patent owner has a surreply coming up,
`the default word count limit is 5,600 words and we
`have opened the possibility to extending that word
`count limit. But then that's going to be followed
`by petitioner's response to expert testimony that
`also is going to need some sort of limitation --
`word count or page limitation put to it, ideally
`which is commensurate with the extra words given
`to patent owner for the surreply.
` So I want to start with patent owner.
`And now that your filing deadline for this is now
`a couple of days away so hopefully you have a
`pretty good idea of what you want to file. So
`what would be your request, Ms. Pitzel Cruz, in
`terms of increasing the default 5,600 word count
`limit for your surreply?
` MS. PITZEL CRUZ: Thank you, Your Honor.
`We're not requesting any additional words beyond
`the 5,600 word limit for each reply in the 12 --
`the 5,600 words in the 1291 and then the
`corresponding 5,600 words in the 1465 petition.
`So at this time we're not asking for any
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`
`www.DigitalEvidenceGroup.comDigital Evidence Group C'rt 2023
`
`202-232-0646
`
`MASIMO 2102
`Apple v. Masimo
`IPR2022-01465
`
`

`

`9/27/2023
`
`Apple, Inc. v. Masimo Corp.
`
`Telephonic Hearing
`
`Page 14
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`
`additional words beyond that.
` JUDGE HOSKINS: I see.
` Okay. So then, petitioner, you're in a
`little bit -- Mr. Stephens, you're in a little bit
`of a difficult position because patent owner
`hasn't filed their surreply yet so you really
`don't have a good feeling for how much pages
`you're going to need, I think, for the response to
`expert testimony. What do you have in terms of
`input at this time on that issue?
` MR. STEPHENS: Yeah, thank you, Your
`Honor. We understood from the board's order on
`September 5th in the 1291 and 1465 proceedings
`that the response to expert testimony is currently
`limited to 10 pages. At this time, we think
`that's reasonable, but I think that we would work
`under that constraint, you know, pending our
`review of the declaration. And if it becomes
`apparent that anything more might be required, we
`would intend to reach out to the board as promptly
`as possible.
` JUDGE HOSKINS: Okay. Thank you.
`
`www.DigitalEvidenceGroup.comDigital Evidence Group C'rt 2023
`
`202-232-0646
`
`MASIMO 2102
`Apple v. Masimo
`IPR2022-01465
`
`

`

`9/27/2023
`
`Apple, Inc. v. Masimo Corp.
`
`Telephonic Hearing
`
`Page 15
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`
` So, Ms. Pitzel Cruz, do you have
`anything that you want to respond on this issue,
`the issue of page counts for the petitioner's
`response to expert testimony?
` MS. PITZEL CRUZ: Not at this time. If
`petitioners do raise a request for additional
`pages, we could address that at that time.
` JUDGE HOSKINS: Okay. Thank you.
` So I think that was -- let me ask my --
`I think that's all the items on my agenda for the
`phone call today. So let me just ask does anybody
`else have any issues that I might have forgotten
`or any additional issues that they want to raise
`that maybe weren't previously discussed?
` MR. STEPHENS: None from petitioner.
` MS. PITZEL CRUZ: None for patent owner,
`Your Honor.
` JUDGE HOSKINS: Okay. Let me confer
`with my panel here for a moment.
` Okay. So here's another topic of
`conversation. So what -- the panel's intent at
`this time when we're talking about the oral
`
`www.DigitalEvidenceGroup.comDigital Evidence Group C'rt 2023
`
`202-232-0646
`
`MASIMO 2102
`Apple v. Masimo
`IPR2022-01465
`
`

`

`9/27/2023
`
`Apple, Inc. v. Masimo Corp.
`
`Telephonic Hearing
`
`Page 16
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`
`argument, both parties have asked for the two
`cases, the 1291 and the 1465 cases, to be argued
`in a consolidated fashion and then presumably the
`third case has its own hearing.
` So I think what everybody intends to do
`and what the panel would like to do is to kind of
`have two hearing sessions on whatever day,
`hopefully it's the 17th, but we would have two
`sessions. There would be one session to address
`the 1291 and 1465 cases together and then a
`separate session for the 1299 case.
` And so kind of with that overall
`structure, I'm going to ask each party, do you
`have a preference for which might go first,
`whether we do the 1291 and 1465 cases together and
`then the 1299 case or perhaps the reverse order?
` So let me start with Mr. Stephens. Do
`you have a preference on that front?
` MR. STEPHENS: Thank you, Your Honor. I
`don't think we have a preference. I believe --
`that's right, we don't have a preference. I think
`either order would work for us. We would note
`
`www.DigitalEvidenceGroup.comDigital Evidence Group C'rt 2023
`
`202-232-0646
`
`MASIMO 2102
`Apple v. Masimo
`IPR2022-01465
`
`

`

`9/27/2023
`
`Apple, Inc. v. Masimo Corp.
`
`Telephonic Hearing
`
`Page 17
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`
`likely in both proceedings there will be
`confidential information discussed and so I
`imagine we would have an open portion to a hearing
`and a closed session as well.
` JUDGE HOSKINS: Understood. Thank you.
` And so, Ms. Pitzel Cruz, what do you
`think?
` MS. PITZEL CRUZ: Thank you, Your Honor.
`I don't believe we have a preference at this time
`between the order of the two.
` JUDGE HOSKINS: Okay. Thank you.
` So let me just circle back with my panel
`here for a moment.
` Okay. So we'll take the issue about
`confidential information under advisement and the
`order that we send out will deal with that in some
`fashion or another.
` So before closing the call today, I just
`wanted to express the panel's very deep gratitude
`to the parties for working out the case schedule
`and sending the e-mail yesterday. The timing of
`the e-mail, the lateness of the hour was not lost
`
`www.DigitalEvidenceGroup.comDigital Evidence Group C'rt 2023
`
`202-232-0646
`
`MASIMO 2102
`Apple v. Masimo
`IPR2022-01465
`
`

`

`9/27/2023
`
`Apple, Inc. v. Masimo Corp.
`
`Telephonic Hearing
`
`Page 18
`upon us, and I know -- we know that you have an
`awful lot going on in these cases and whatever
`other cases you have going on right now and so we
`just want to express our deep gratitude for the
`parties negotiating that case schedule between
`them. It much shortened the phone call today and
`the work that the panel has to do. And of course
`it also helps out the parties because they have
`some modicum of control over the schedule so it's
`good for everybody. And so we just wanted to say
`thank you for that.
` And so unless anybody has anything else
`they want to raise, I think we're done with
`today's telephone conversation.
` MR. STEPHENS: Thank you, Your Honor.
` MS. PITZEL CRUZ: Your Honor, this is
`Carol Pitzel Cruz --
` MR. STEPHENS: Go ahead, Counsel, I
`apologize.
` MS. PITZEL CRUZ: Sorry to make this
`call any longer, but I did want to just ask one
`off-agenda item. We intend to include some
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`
`www.DigitalEvidenceGroup.comDigital Evidence Group C'rt 2023
`
`202-232-0646
`
`MASIMO 2102
`Apple v. Masimo
`IPR2022-01465
`
`

`

`9/27/2023
`
`Apple, Inc. v. Masimo Corp.
`
`Telephonic Hearing
`
`Page 19
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`
`confidential information in our surreply and
`declaration, should we go ahead and file another
`motion to seal or could we have approval today to
`do that?
` JUDGE HOSKINS: Let me ask, is this kind
`of -- I assume given the lateness of the
`proceeding and where we are that to the extent
`it's confidential information, it's items that
`have already been sealed and that they're being
`discussed in either the new expert declaration and
`the surreply as opposed to some sort of new piece
`of evidence that might need sealing on its own.
`Is that assumption correct?
` MS. PITZEL CRUZ: That's correct, Your
`Honor.
` JUDGE HOSKINS: Okay. Then go ahead and
`file it under seal. You don't need to file a
`separate motion and that will be good.
` Unless, Mr. Stephens, do you have any
`objection to that?
` MR. STEPHENS: We have no objection,
`Your Honor.
`
`www.DigitalEvidenceGroup.comDigital Evidence Group C'rt 2023
`
`202-232-0646
`
`MASIMO 2102
`Apple v. Masimo
`IPR2022-01465
`
`

`

`9/27/2023
`
`Apple, Inc. v. Masimo Corp.
`
`Telephonic Hearing
`
`Page 20
`
` JUDGE HOSKINS: Okay. So please go
`ahead and do it that way, Ms. Pitzel Cruz, it will
`be easier and I appreciate you raising that issue
`today.
` MS. PITZEL CRUZ: Okay. Thank you so
`much.
` JUDGE HOSKINS: Okay. So that adjourns
`our phone call and I thank everyone for their
`attention and time in this matter and we look
`forward to hearing oral arguments here in the near
`future. So thank you.
` MS. PITZEL CRUZ: Thank you.
` MR. STEPHENS: Thank you, Your Honor.
` (Off the record at 11:20 a.m.)
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`
`www.DigitalEvidenceGroup.comDigital Evidence Group C'rt 2023
`
`202-232-0646
`
`MASIMO 2102
`Apple v. Masimo
`IPR2022-01465
`
`

`

`9/27/2023
`
`Apple, Inc. v. Masimo Corp.
`
`Telephonic Hearing
`
`Page 21
`
`STATE OF MARYLAND )
` ss:
`COUNTY OF MONTGOMERY )
`
` I, Matthew Goldstein, Notary Public
`within and for the State of Maryland, do hereby
`certify:
` That I reported the proceedings in the
`within entitled matter, and that the within
`transcript is a true record of said proceedings.
` I further certify that I am not related
`to any of the parties to the action by blood or
`marriage, and that I am in no way interested in
`the outcome of this matter.
` IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set
`my hand this 27th day of September, 2023.
`
` ____________________________
` Matthew Goldstein, RMR, CRR
`
`1
`2
`3
`
`4 5
`
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`
`www.DigitalEvidenceGroup.comDigital Evidence Group C'rt 2023
`
`202-232-0646
`
`MASIMO 2102
`Apple v. Masimo
`IPR2022-01465
`
`

`

`
`
`9/27/20239/27/2023
`
`
`
`Apple, Inc. v. Masimo Corp.Apple, Inc. v. Masimo Corp.
`
`A
`a.m 1:14 20:14
`able 9:20 12:6
`action 21:12
`add 9:17
`additional 13:18
`14:1 15:6,13
`address 15:7 16:9
`addressed 7:11
`adjourns 20:7
`Administrative
`2:3,9,15 5:2
`advisement 17:15
`agenda 7:5,15,19
`9:8 15:10
`agreement 9:22
`ahead 6:4 8:10
`18:18 19:2,16
`20:2
`alarm 8:21
`Alexandria 11:8
`12:10
`amenable 10:1
`and- 2:7,13 3:10
`3:17 4:11
`Andrew 3:12
`5:20
`anybody 15:11
`18:12
`apologize 18:19
`apparent 14:19
`Appeal 1:2 5:3
`appearance 5:14
`6:10
`appearances
`5:12
`Apple 1:4 5:19
`10:1
`Apple's 8:7
`appreciate 9:4
`20:3
`appropriate
`11:22
`approval 19:3
`argued 16:2
`argument 10:9
`
`12:8 16:1
`arguments 20:10
`arrange 6:7
`asked 11:6,7,14
`16:1
`asking 13:22
`assume 19:6
`assumption
`19:13
`attention 20:9
`authorization
`8:17
`Avenue 3:13 4:6
`awful 8:19 18:2
`B
`
`B 3:12
`back 7:9 10:10
`10:20 17:12
`bear 7:17
`behalf 3:2 4:3
`5:19
`believe 9:22
`16:20 17:9
`believed 11:20
`best 11:9
`beyond 13:18
`14:1
`bit 7:6 14:4,4
`blood 21:12
`board 1:2 5:3
`6:19 8:8 9:13
`9:14 12:6,13
`14:20
`board's 10:14
`14:12
`briefings 12:21
`bring 6:1,5
`busy 8:6
`C
`C 2:1 3:1,1 4:1,1
`calendar 10:14
`California 3:22
`4:17
`call 5:4,15,19
`8:11 10:20
`
`15:11 17:18
`18:6,21 20:8
`Camino 3:20
`Cannon 4:13
`6:15
`Carol 4:4 6:13
`18:17
`case 1:5 5:7 9:9
`9:15 11:22 16:4
`16:11,16 17:20
`18:5
`cases 5:10 6:20
`7:1,21 8:15,20
`9:9,12,15 10:2
`11:1,5 12:1
`13:1 16:2,2,10
`16:15 18:2,3
`caveat 10:7,11,17
`certify 21:7,11
`chance 7:12 9:10
`11:11
`circle 7:9 10:20
`17:12
`closed 17:4
`closely 5:6
`closing 17:18
`Cocks 2:15 5:11
`colleagues 5:9,20
`6:15
`come 12:17
`coming 13:1
`commensurate
`13:8
`communications
`7:16
`completed 9:6
`confer 15:18
`conference 8:16
`11:6
`confidential 17:2
`17:15 19:1,8
`confirm 10:19
`consideration
`12:16
`consolidated
`16:3
`
`constraint 14:17
`control 18:9
`convenient 12:12
`conversation
`7:18 15:21
`18:14
`copy 6:22 8:13
`CORPORATI...
`1:8
`correct 8:3 19:13
`19:14
`corrected 7:21
`8:12,17
`corresponding
`13:21
`counsel 5:21 9:21
`18:18
`count 13:2,4,7,15
`country 11:19
`counts 15:3
`COUNTY 21:3
`couple 13:12
`course 7:2 18:7
`court 5:15 6:5,7
`6:16
`CRR 1:19 21:22
`Cruz 4:4 6:12,13
`6:21 7:2,22 8:4
`8:5 10:4,5 12:3
`12:4,12 13:14
`13:17 15:1,5,16
`17:6,8 18:16,17
`18:20 19:14
`20:2,5,12
`currently 14:14
`D
`D 3:1 4:1
`D.C 1:21 3:14
`Daniel 4:14 6:15
`date 10:8,13
`dates 9:22 10:9
`dawdle 8:21
`day 16:7 21:16
`days 13:12
`deadline 8:19
`13:11
`
`Telephonic HearingTelephonic Hearing
`
`Page 1
`deadlines 9:18
`deal 17:16
`decided 11:9
`decision 8:8
`declaration
`14:18 19:2,10
`deep 17:19 18:4
`default 13:2,15
`Defendants 1:9
`described 8:18
`Diego 3:22
`difficult 14:5
`DIGITAL 1:20
`disagreement
`11:3
`discuss 7:4
`discussed 15:14
`17:2 19:10
`driven 11:17
`E
`E 2:1,1 3:1,1,1
`4:1,1,1
`e-mail 7:15 8:14
`9:10,20 17:21
`17:22
`e-mails 7:12 8:1
`8:18
`easier 20:3
`effective 11:21
`either 16:22
`19:10
`El 3:20
`enter 9:14
`entitled 21:9
`ESQUIRE 3:3,12
`3:19 4:4,13,14
`everybody 16:5
`18:10
`evidence 1:20
`19:12
`exhibit 7:1 8:14
`expect 9:5 10:16
`expert 13:5 14:9
`14:14 15:4
`19:10
`express 17:19
`
`
`
`www.DigitalEvidenceGroup.com Digital Evidence Group C'rt 2023www.DigitalEvidenceGroup.com Digital Evidence Group C'rt 2023
`
`
`
`202-232-0646202-232-0646
`
`MASIMO 2102
`Apple v. Masimo
`IPR2022-01465
`
`

`

`9/27/2023
`
`Apple, Inc. v. Masimo Corp.
`
`18:4
`extending 13:3
`extent 19:7
`extra 13:8
`F
`
`Fair 8:9
`false 8:21
`fashion 16:3
`17:17
`feeling 14:7
`felt 12:5
`file 6:21 7:20,20
`8:12,13,13,17
`13:13 19:2,17
`19:17
`filed 9:5 12:22
`14:6
`filing 13:11
`fire 8:21
`first 7:14,19
`16:14
`Fish 3:4 5:18
`Floor 4:16
`folks 10:21
`follow 7:8
`followed 13:4
`forgotten 15:12
`format 11:5
`forth 10:1
`forward 20:10
`front 7:5 9:18
`11:2 16:18
`further 10:4
`21:11
`future 20:11
`G
`generated 6:22
`George 2:3 5:2
`give 8:18 11:10
`given 13:8 19:6
`go 6:3,10 7:7,13
`7:16 8:10 10:12
`11:9 12:18
`16:14 18:18
`19:2,16 20:1
`
`goes 10:22
`going 7:16 8:10
`8:18,20 12:18
`12:22 13:4,6
`14:8 16:13 18:2
`18:3
`Goldstein 1:19
`21:5,22
`good 5:1 6:12
`9:13 13:13 14:7
`18:10 19:18
`grant 8:11
`granted 11:12
`gratitude 17:19
`18:4
`GROUP 1:20
`H
`hand 21:16
`hearing 1:12
`10:20,22 11:5,7
`11:8,15,15
`12:17 16:4,7
`17:3 20:10
`hearings 10:12
`11:21
`helpful 12:5
`helps 18:8
`hereunto 21:15
`Honor 6:2,13 7:2
`8:5 9:4,19 10:5
`11:17 12:4
`13:17 14:12
`15:17 16:19
`17:8 18:15,16
`19:15,22 20:13
`Honors 5:17
`hopefully 13:12
`16:8
`hoping 5:11
`Hoskins 2:3 5:1,2
`5:22 6:3,9,18
`7:3 8:9 9:7 10:3
`10:6 12:2,9,14
`14:2,22 15:8,18
`17:5,11 19:5,16
`20:1,7
`
`hour 17:22
`I
`idea 13:13
`ideally 13:7
`imagine 17:3
`in-person 12:8
`inclined 9:14
`include 18:22
`increasing 13:15
`information 9:16
`17:2,15 19:1,8
`input 14:10
`intend 7:6 14:20
`18:22
`intends 16:5
`intent 15:21
`interact 12:6
`interested 21:13
`IPR2022-01291
`1:7 5:6
`IPR2022-01299
`1:6 5:8
`IPR2022-01465
`1:8
`Irvine 4:17
`issue 14:10 15:2
`15:3 17:14 20:3
`issues 12:20
`15:12,13
`item 7:19 9:8
`12:20 18:22
`items 7:15 15:10
`19:8
`
`J
`jointly 9:11
`Josiah 2:15 5:11
`Judge 2:4,10,16
`5:1,2,22 6:3,9
`6:18 7:3 8:9 9:7
`10:3,6 12:2,9
`12:14 14:2,22
`15:8,18 17:5,11
`19:5,16 20:1,7
`K
`
`Kiang 4:14 6:15
`Kim 3:19 5:20
`kind 7:13 9:16
`11:11 16:6,12
`19:5
`Knobbe 4:5 6:13
`know 5:14 7:12
`10:15 12:16
`14:17 18:1,1
`L
`lateness 17:22
`19:6
`leave 8:8
`length 12:21
`let's 6:10
`Leung 3:19 5:20
`limit 13:2,4,16,19
`limitation 13:6,7
`limited 14:15
`line 6:17
`list 12:21
`little 7:6 10:17
`11:3 14:4,4
`live 11:7,15
`location 12:13
`logistics 11:18
`longer 18:21
`look 20:9
`looking 12:11
`looks 9:12
`lost 17:22
`lot 8:20 18:2
`M
`M 1:21 4:13
`Main 4:15
`Maine 3:13
`marriage 21:13
`Martens 4:5 6:14
`Maryland 21:1,6
`MASIMO 1:8
`matter 20:9 21:9
`21:14
`Matthew 1:19
`21:5,22
`members 11:18
`
`Telephonic Hearing
`Page 2
`Minneapolis 3:7
`Minnesota 3:7
`missed 7:10
`modicum 18:9
`moment 15:19
`17:13
`MONTGOME...
`21:3
`morning 5:1 6:12
`motion 7:20 8:7
`8:13 19:3,18
`N
`N 2:1 3:1,1,1 4:1
`4:1,1
`near 20:10
`need 8:12 10:12
`10:18 13:6 14:8
`19:12,17
`negotiating 18:5
`new 19:10,11
`NICHOLAS 3:3
`Nick 5:18
`Nos 1:5
`Notary 21:5
`note 16:22
`noted 6:16 9:20
`11:3
`November 10:10
`number 7:4
`NW 1:21
`O
`O 3:1 4:1
`objection 8:2
`19:20,21
`off-agenda 18:22
`Office 1:1 2:5,11
`2:17
`officially 10:19
`Okay 6:9 7:3 8:9
`9:7 10:3,6 12:9
`12:14,19 14:3
`14:22 15:8,18
`15:20 17:11,14
`19:16 20:1,5,7
`open 17:3
`
`www.DigitalEvidenceGroup.com Digital Evidence Group C'rt 2023
`
`202-232-0646
`
`MASIMO 2102
`Apple v. Masimo
`IPR2022-01465
`
`

`

`9/27/2023
`
`Apple, Inc. v. Masimo Corp.
`
`opened 13:3
`opposed 11:15
`19:11
`opposing 8:7
`oral 10:8 11:20
`15:22 20:10
`order 10:22
`12:17 14:12
`16:16,22 17:10
`17:16
`outcome 21:14
`overall 16:12
`owner 4:3 6:7,11
`6:14 11:7 13:1
`13:9,10 14:5
`15:16
`owner's 9:21
`P
`P 2:1,1 3:1,1 4:1
`4:1
`P.C 3:4
`page 13:7 15:3
`pages 14:7,15
`15:7
`panel 2:2 5:9
`10:9,11 11:8
`15:19 16:6
`17:12 18:7
`panel's 15:21
`17:19
`part 5:13
`particular 8:2
`parties 5:12 9:11
`10:10 11:4,11
`11:18 16:1
`17:20 18:5,8
`21:12
`party 16:13
`patent 1:1,2 2:3,4
`2:9,10,15,16
`4:3 5:2,3 6:6,11
`6:14 9:21 11:7
`13:1,9,10 14:5
`15:16
`Patrick 3:12 5:20
`pending 14:17
`
`person 11:8 12:5
`12:6
`petition 7:21 8:12
`8:17 13:21
`petitioner 3:2
`5:13,19 6:16
`8:14 11:6 14:3
`15:15
`petitioner's 7:20
`8:11 13:5 15:3
`petitioners 15:6
`phone 5:4,15
`8:11 10:20
`15:11 18:6 20:8
`piece 19:11
`Pitzel 4:4 6:12,13
`6:20 7:2,22 8:4
`8:5 10:3,5 12:3
`12:4,12 13:14
`13:17 15:1,5,16
`17:6,8 18:16,17
`18:20 19:14
`20:2,5,12
`Plaintiff 1:5
`please 6:3,11,21
`7:8 20:1
`point 7:7,7,17,17
`10:19
`Pollock 2:9 5:10
`portion 17:3
`position 14:5
`possibility 13:3
`possible 14:21
`preference 16:14
`16:18,20,21
`17:9
`present 6:8
`presumably 16:3
`pretty 13:13
`previous 6:20
`previously 7:11
`15:14
`primarily 11:17
`proceeding 19:7
`proceedings 5:5
`5:21 14:13 17:1
`
`21:8,10
`proffered 10:9
`promptly 14:20
`proposed 9:11
`Public 21:5
`put 7:6,18 12:7
`13:7
`
`Q
`questions 9:1
`R
`R 2:1 3:1 4:1
`raise 15:6,13
`18:13
`raising 20:3
`reach 14:20
`Real 3:20
`really 10:16 11:9
`14:6
`reason 10:16
`reasonable 14:16
`record 20:14
`21:10
`related 5:5,7
`21:11
`reply 13:19
`reported 1:19
`21:8
`reporter 5:15 6:6
`6:7,16
`request 7:20 8:2
`8:7,11 11:4
`12:7 13:14 15:6
`requesting 13:18
`requests 11:12
`required 14:19
`respect 10:8
`respective 11:12
`respond 15:2
`response 13:5
`14:8,14 15:4
`result 8:15 10:21
`reverse 16:16
`review 9:10
`14:18
`Richardson 3:4
`
`5:18
`right 12:10 16:21
`18:3
`RMR 1:19 21:22
`Robert 2:9 5:10
`route 12:11
`S
`S 2:1 3:1 4:1
`San 3:22
`schedule 9:9,12
`9:12,15 10:1,8
`17:20 18:5,9
`seal 19:3,17
`sealed 19:9
`sealing 19:12
`Seattle 4:8
`see 10:22 14:2
`send 17:16
`sending 17:21
`sent 9:10,21
`separate 16:11
`19:18
`September 1:13
`14:13 21:16
`session 16:9,11
`17:4
`sessions 16:7,9
`set 7:15 8:21 10:1
`21:15
`shortened 18:6
`shortly 12:17
`somewhat 5:5
`sorry 6:2 18:20
`sort 13:6 19:11
`South 3:5
`ss 21:2
`staff 10:13
`start 5:13 7:14,22
`11:13 13:10
`16:17
`State 21:1,6
`States 1:1 2:4,10
`2:16
`Stephens 3:3
`5:17,18 6:1,5
`8:16 9:2,3,17
`
`Telephonic Hearing
`Page 3
`
`9:19 11:13,14
`11:16 14:4,11
`15:15 16:17,19
`18:15,18 19:19
`19:21 20:13
`Street 1:21 3:5
`4:15
`structure 7:7,18
`16:13
`Suite 1:21 3:6,21
`4:7
`support 10:13
`sure 7:8 10:13
`11:16
`surreplies 8:6
`surreply 13:1,9
`13:16 14:6 19:1
`19:11
`SW 3:13
`T
`T 3:1 4:1
`table 10:2
`take 12:15 17:14
`talking 15:22
`team 11:19
`Ted 4:13 6:15
`telephone 8:16
`18:14
`TELEPHONIC
`1:12
`tell 11:11
`terms 9:18 11:4
`12:20 13:15
`14:9
`testimony 13:5
`14:9,14 15:4
`thank 5:16,17 6:9
`6:18 7:3 8:5 9:3
`9:7 10:6 11:16
`12:2,4,14,18
`13:17 14:11,22
`15:8 16:19 17:5
`17:8,11 18:11
`18:15 20:5,8,11
`20:12,13
`Thanks 5:22
`
`www.DigitalEvidenceGroup.com Digital Evidence Group C'rt 2023
`
`202-232-0646
`
`MASIMO 2102
`Apple v. Masimo
`IPR2022-01465
`
`

`

`9/27/2023
`
`Apple, Inc. v. Masimo Corp.
`
`Telephonic Hearing
`Page 4
`
`5,600 13:2,15,19
`13:20,21
`55402 3:7
`5th 14:13
`6
`
`60 3:5
`612.766.2018 3:8
`6th 3:5
`
`7 8
`
`812 1:21
`9
`92130 3:22
`925 4:6
`92614 4:17
`949.760.0404
`4:18
`98104 4:8
`
`9:21 17:21
`Z
`zones 11:20
`
`0 1
`
`10 14:15
`1000 3:13
`11:00 1:14
`11:20 20:14
`12 13:19
`12860 3:20
`1291 7:21 12:22
`13:20 14:13
`16:2,10,15
`1299 16:11,16

This document is available on Docket Alarm but you must sign up to view it.


Or .

Accessing this document will incur an additional charge of $.

After purchase, you can access this document again without charge.

Accept $ Charge
throbber

Still Working On It

This document is taking longer than usual to download. This can happen if we need to contact the court directly to obtain the document and their servers are running slowly.

Give it another minute or two to complete, and then try the refresh button.

throbber

A few More Minutes ... Still Working

It can take up to 5 minutes for us to download a document if the court servers are running slowly.

Thank you for your continued patience.

This document could not be displayed.

We could not find this document within its docket. Please go back to the docket page and check the link. If that does not work, go back to the docket and refresh it to pull the newest information.

Your account does not support viewing this document.

You need a Paid Account to view this document. Click here to change your account type.

Your account does not support viewing this document.

Set your membership status to view this document.

With a Docket Alarm membership, you'll get a whole lot more, including:

  • Up-to-date information for this case.
  • Email alerts whenever there is an update.
  • Full text search for other cases.
  • Get email alerts whenever a new case matches your search.

Become a Member

One Moment Please

The filing “” is large (MB) and is being downloaded.

Please refresh this page in a few minutes to see if the filing has been downloaded. The filing will also be emailed to you when the download completes.

Your document is on its way!

If you do not receive the document in five minutes, contact support at support@docketalarm.com.

Sealed Document

We are unable to display this document, it may be under a court ordered seal.

If you have proper credentials to access the file, you may proceed directly to the court's system using your government issued username and password.


Access Government Site

We are redirecting you
to a mobile optimized page.





Document Unreadable or Corrupt

Refresh this Document
Go to the Docket

We are unable to display this document.

Refresh this Document
Go to the Docket