Dr. Nathaniel Polish - May 25, 2023
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`Page 1
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` UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
` IPR 2022-01411
` IPR 2022-01412
` IPR 2022-01413
` PATENT 9,729,594 B2
` PATENT 9,742,824 B2
` PATENT 9,762,636 B2
`
`_____________________________
` )
`GOOGLE LLC, )
` )
` Petitioner, )
` )
` vs. )
` )
`WAG ACQUISITION, )
` )
` Patent Owner. )
`_____________________________)
`
` DEPOSITION UNDER ORAL EXAMINATION OF
`
` DR. NATHANIEL POLISH
`
` DATE: May 25, 2023
`
` REPORTED BY: MICHAEL FRIEDMAN, CCR
`
`GregoryEdwards, LLC | Worldwide Court Reporting
`GregoryEdwards.com | 866-4Team GE
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`WAG, Exhibit 2011
`Amazon.com, Inc. v. WAG Acquisition, LLC, IPR2022-01433
`Page 1 of 131
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`Page 1
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` UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
` IPR 2022-01411
` IPR 2022-01412
` IPR 2022-01413
` PATENT 9,729,594 B2
` PATENT 9,742,824 B2
` PATENT 9,762,636 B2
`
`_____________________________
` )
`GOOGLE LLC, )
` )
` Petitioner, )
` )
` vs. )
` )
`WAG ACQUISITION, )
` )
` Patent Owner. )
`_____________________________)
`
` DEPOSITION UNDER ORAL EXAMINATION OF
`
` DR. NATHANIEL POLISH
`
` DATE: May 25, 2023
`
` REPORTED BY: MICHAEL FRIEDMAN, CCR
`
`GregoryEdwards, LLC | Worldwide Court Reporting
`GregoryEdwards.com | 866-4Team GE
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`WAG, Exhibit 2011
`Amazon.com, Inc. v. WAG Acquisition, LLC, IPR2022-01433
`Page 1 of 131
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`Dr. Nathaniel Polish - May 25, 2023
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`Page 2
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` TRANSCRIPT of the deposition of the
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`witness, called for Oral Examination in the
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`above-captioned matter, said deposition being taken
`
`by and before MICHAEL FRIEDMAN, a Notary Public and
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`Certified Court Reporter of the State of New Jersey,
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`at ZOOM VTC, ALL PARTIES REMOTE, on May 25, 2023,
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`commencing at approximately 10:00 in the morning.
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`GregoryEdwards, LLC | Worldwide Court Reporting
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`WAG, Exhibit 2011
`Amazon.com, Inc. v. WAG Acquisition, LLC, IPR2022-01433
`Page 2 of 131
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`Dr. Nathaniel Polish - May 25, 2023
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`Page 3
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`A P P E A R A N C E S:
`
`LISTON ABRAMSON
`
`405 Lexington Avenue
`
`New York, NY 10174
`
`BY: RONALD ABRAMSON, ESQ.
`
` MICHAEL LEWIS, ESQ.
`
`Attorneys for WAG Acquisition
`
`COOLEY
`
`55 Hudson Yards
`
`New York, NY 10001
`
`BY: EAMONN GARDNER, ESQ.
`
` JOSEPH DRAYTON, ESQ.
`
`Attorneys for Google
`
` * * *
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`GregoryEdwards, LLC | Worldwide Court Reporting
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`
`WAG, Exhibit 2011
`Amazon.com, Inc. v. WAG Acquisition, LLC, IPR2022-01433
`Page 3 of 131
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`Dr. Nathaniel Polish - May 25, 2023
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`Page 4
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` I N D E X
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`WITNESS NAME PAGE
`
`DR. NATHANIEL POLISH
`
` By Mr. Abramson 7
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` * * *
`
` E X H I B I T S
`
`EXHIBIT NO. PAGE
`
`1067 IPR 2022-011412 9
`
`2594 Declaration 2022 1411 17
`
`2017 MP litigation list 18
`
`2013 MBlaze declaration 35
`
`1006 Hill patent 40
`
`1004 Ravi patent 54
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`1008 Aharoni patent 78
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`2824 IPR 2022 1412 101
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` (Exhibits retained by counsel.)
`
` * * *
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`GregoryEdwards, LLC | Worldwide Court Reporting
`GregoryEdwards.com | 866-4Team GE
`
`WAG, Exhibit 2011
`Amazon.com, Inc. v. WAG Acquisition, LLC, IPR2022-01433
`Page 4 of 131
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`Dr. Nathaniel Polish - May 25, 2023
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`Page 5
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` - - -
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` Deposition Support Index
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` - - -
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`Direction to Witness Not to Answer
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`Page Line Page Line Page Line
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`None
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`Request for Production of Documents
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`Page Line Page Line Page Line
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`None
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`Stipulations
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`Page Line Page Line Page Line
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`None
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`Questions Marked
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`None
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`GregoryEdwards, LLC | Worldwide Court Reporting
`GregoryEdwards.com | 866-4Team GE
`
`WAG, Exhibit 2011
`Amazon.com, Inc. v. WAG Acquisition, LLC, IPR2022-01433
`Page 5 of 131
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`Dr. Nathaniel Polish - May 25, 2023
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`Page 6
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` THE COURT REPORTER: My name is
`
` Michael Friedman, a Certified Shorthand
`
` Reporter. This deposition is being held
`
` via videoconferencing equipment.
`
` The witness and reporter are not in
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` the same room. The witness will be sworn
`
` in remotely, pursuant to agreement of
`
` all parties. The parties stipulate that
`
` the testimony is being given as if the
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` witness was sworn in person.
`
`GregoryEdwards, LLC | Worldwide Court Reporting
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`
`WAG, Exhibit 2011
`Amazon.com, Inc. v. WAG Acquisition, LLC, IPR2022-01433
`Page 6 of 131
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`Dr. Nathaniel Polish - May 25, 2023
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`Page 7
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`D R. N A T H A N I E L P O L I S H,
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` called as a witness, having been first
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`duly sworn according to law, testifies as follows:
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`EXAMINATION BY MR. ABRAMSON:
`
` Q Good morning, Dr. -- it's Polish,
`
`right?
`
` A Yes.
`
` Q Okay. I want to start and upload
`
`your CV which I have here.
`
` A Okay.
`
` Q It should be --
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` MR. GARDNER: By upload, do you
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` mean you're putting it in the chat or --
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` MR. ABRAMSON: I'm putting it in
`
` the chat if I can find the chat. Here's
`
` the chat. I'm putting it in the chat.
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` This way -- I mean you probably have it
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` already, but --
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` Now, also, let me -- I guess -- let
`
` me just check something.
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` Since we have three combined
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` proceedings here, I want to try to
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`GregoryEdwards, LLC | Worldwide Court Reporting
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`WAG, Exhibit 2011
`Amazon.com, Inc. v. WAG Acquisition, LLC, IPR2022-01433
`Page 7 of 131
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`Dr. Nathaniel Polish - May 25, 2023
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` disambiguate these exhibits where
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` necessary. Let me look at the files
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` here.
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` In this case it's Exhibit 1003,
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` 2082 kilobytes.
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` And in the next case -- off the
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` record.
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` (Whereupon a discussion was held
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` off the record.)
`
` Q Dr. Polish, you've appeared here
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`today on behalf of Google.
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` Correct?
`
` A Yes.
`
` Q And that's in three IPRs?
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` A Yes, my understanding.
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` Q One on the '824 patent, one on the
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`'636 patent and the third on the '594 patent?
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` A Yes.
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` Q Was your CV the same in all three
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`cases?
`
` A Yes, it hasn't changed. It hasn't
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`changed since I submitted those.
`
` Q All right. So I will read this. I
`
`just sent you one of those marked as
`
`Exhibit 1003.
`
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`
`WAG, Exhibit 2011
`Amazon.com, Inc. v. WAG Acquisition, LLC, IPR2022-01433
`Page 8 of 131
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`Dr. Nathaniel Polish - May 25, 2023
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` And -- do you know what? I sent
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`you exactly the wrong thing. This is the
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`problem with these things. I'm going to kill
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`that -- actually, I never hit "send" on it,
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`so it's just as well.
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` Let me send you your actual CV.
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` MR. GARDNER: We're on the record
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` now, right? I mean --
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` MR. ABRAMSON: Yes, we are. I'm
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` going to send you -- yeah, don't worry
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` about it. I'm fine on the record.
`
` Exhibit 1067 from the '824 IPR,
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` that's IPR 2022-011412. It's Exhibit
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` 1067.
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` (Whereupon the above mentioned was
`
` marked for Identification.)
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` MR. ABRAMSON: Polish CV, I will
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` hit "Send" on this. You'll all have it,
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` so I don't have to go through uploading
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` all three of these.
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` Q You'll confirm this is the same CV
`
`that you submitted in all three cases?
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` A Yeah, that is correct.
`
` Q So you've appeared in many cases as
`
`an expert.
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`
`WAG, Exhibit 2011
`Amazon.com, Inc. v. WAG Acquisition, LLC, IPR2022-01433
`Page 9 of 131
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`Dr. Nathaniel Polish - May 25, 2023
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` Correct?
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` A For certain definitions of many,
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`yes.
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` Q Including PTAB cases?
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` A Yes.
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` Q Okay. You've given depositions in
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`those cases.
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` Correct?
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` A In many of them, yes.
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` Q Okay. You've given depositions
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`numerous times.
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` Correct?
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` A Something on the order of a hundred
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`times --
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` Q Okay.
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` A -- over the last 20 years.
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` Q So you're well aware of how a
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`deposition process works in an IPR.
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` Correct?
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` A Yes. I'm not particularly aware of
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`the distinction between the deposition
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`process in IPRs versus any other case other
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`than I'm not -- I don't seem to be required
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`to wear a tie.
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` Q Isn't that great? Yes, you're
`
`GregoryEdwards, LLC | Worldwide Court Reporting
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`
`WAG, Exhibit 2011
`Amazon.com, Inc. v. WAG Acquisition, LLC, IPR2022-01433
`Page 10 of 131
`
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`Dr. Nathaniel Polish - May 25, 2023
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`right.
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` A I brought one just in case. Yes.
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` Q I had witnesses that didn't feel
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`they had to wear a tie to court, either.
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`That's how it goes.
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` So you understand that your
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`declarations, the declarations that you filed
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`in this case represent the direct testimony
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`that you want to give on behalf of Google in
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`this case.
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` Correct?
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` A I'm not sure what that exactly
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`means. These are declarations that I've
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`signed that represent my testimony and that
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`I've sworn to.
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` I don't know that it's -- I'm
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`aware, for example, in IPRs there's a
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`distinction between my reports that I filed
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`and direct testimony document, so I'm not --
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`I'm not -- the technical term about whether
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`this is my direct testimony I'm not sure of.
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` Q Okay. But you understand that I'm
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`going to ask you questions about what you
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`said in your declarations?
`
` A That's my understanding, yes.
`
`GregoryEdwards, LLC | Worldwide Court Reporting
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`
`WAG, Exhibit 2011
`Amazon.com, Inc. v. WAG Acquisition, LLC, IPR2022-01433
`Page 11 of 131
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`Dr. Nathaniel Polish - May 25, 2023
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` Q Right. And do you understand that
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`that type of questioning is referred to as
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`cross examination?
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` A Sure. In general. I mean, my
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`understanding is -- well, my understanding is
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`cross examination is supposed to be in
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`response to something in particular that I
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`testified to.
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` I'm aware that sometimes
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`depositions such as this can be broader than
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`that, but I'm aware you're going to ask me
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`questions, and it's supposed to be about what
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`I said in the declarations.
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` Q Good. And -- okay.
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` Do you have an understanding as to
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`how you're supposed to respond to questions
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`put to you in deposition?
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` MR. GARDNER: Objection, form.
`
` A I think so.
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` Q What's your understanding?
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` A Well, I'm supposed to respond to a
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`question as fully and completely as I
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`reasonably can.
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` I ask questions to clarify -- I ask
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`clarification questions. I try not to go
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`
`WAG, Exhibit 2011
`Amazon.com, Inc. v. WAG Acquisition, LLC, IPR2022-01433
`Page 12 of 131
`
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`Dr. Nathaniel Polish - May 25, 2023
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`beyond the scope of the question.
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` Q Okay. You try to go within the
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`scope of the question?
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` A Yes.
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` Q Okay. And in order to do that, you
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`have to understand the question.
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` Correct?
`
` A Yes.
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` Q So would you agree with me that
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`before you begin to answer any of my
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`questions, that you'll wait until you're
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`reasonably certain that you understand the
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`question?
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` A Yes.
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` Q Good. If you have any doubt
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`regarding what a question means, you'll let
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`me know before you start answering.
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` Correct?
`
` A Yes.
`
` Q Good. Okay.
`
` Let's turn here to your CV.
`
` A Okay.
`
` Q If I can find it.
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` (Whereupon a discussion was held
`
`off the record.)
`
`GregoryEdwards, LLC | Worldwide Court Reporting
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`
`WAG, Exhibit 2011
`Amazon.com, Inc. v. WAG Acquisition, LLC, IPR2022-01433
`Page 13 of 131
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`Dr. Nathaniel Polish - May 25, 2023
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` Q Just paging through here, I see
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`that you have your business experience.
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` Do you see that?
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` A Yes.
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` Q And you have -- this goes on for a
`
`while.
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` You have your education, you have
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`publications and patents, research interests,
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`professional societies, other interests,
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`technology development projects, intellectual
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`property projects.
`
` Do you see that?
`
` A Yes.
`
` Q Okay. Is there -- did you provide
`
`a list of the cases in which you've appeared
`
`as an expert by trial or by deposition?
`
` A I don't know if it was included in
`
`these -- in these declarations.
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` As I noted at the bottom of the CV,
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`I have a document that I maintain with a list
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`of all the expert witness cases in which I've
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`been retained and disclosed. I don't know
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`whether that was included as part of the
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`declarations or not.
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` Q You have at the bottom -- I note at
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`
`WAG, Exhibit 2011
`Amazon.com, Inc. v. WAG Acquisition, LLC, IPR2022-01433
`Page 14 of 131
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`Dr. Nathaniel Polish - May 25, 2023
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`the bottom of the CV, I have a document --
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` A Yeah.
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` Q -- business references. That's
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`what you're talking about?
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` A No, I'm talking about, "A separate
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`document detailing intellectual property
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`projects is available upon request." That's
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`about the middle of the last page.
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` Q Intellectual property projects.
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` A Oh, okay.
`
` Q So that's not -- where should I be
`
`looking for that? Because I don't think
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`it's -- I don't see it.
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` As you say, it's referenced as a
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`separate document. Should I look in your
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`declaration?
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` A I don't know whether it was
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`included in the declaration or not. It's on
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`my website. It's easy to find, but I don't
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`know whether it was included.
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` I rely on the lawyers to include
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`what references to me are required as part of
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`the filing.
`
` Q Okay. Okay.
`
` A I will just say, that document is
`
`GregoryEdwards, LLC | Worldwide Court Reporting
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`
`WAG, Exhibit 2011
`Amazon.com, Inc. v. WAG Acquisition, LLC, IPR2022-01433
`Page 15 of 131
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`Dr. Nathaniel Polish - May 25, 2023
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`on my company website. You know, it's
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`completely public and intentionally easy to
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`find.
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` Q Okay. What is the URL?
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` A If you go to www.DTgroup.com, and
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`then on that landing page there will be a
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`link to expert witness experience document.
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` Q WWW what?
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` A Www.DTgroup.com.
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` Q DP, like data processing?
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` A DT, as in deadless technology.
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` Q Ah, DT. DP was something that was,
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`quote, "Not secure." DT group. Here we go.
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` And then, "Contact us," "How we
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`work," "What we do," "Who we are" --
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` A If you look on that main page, part
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`of the way down, there will be a link for
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`expert witness experience.
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` Q Ah, okay. Is that up to date?
`
` A Yes, at least there's a date at the
`
`bottom. It's probably nine months old or ten
`
`months old, something like that.
`
` MR. ABRAMSON: Okay. All right.
`
` While we do that, I'm going to upload --
`
` so let me kill this. One second. I
`
`GregoryEdwards, LLC | Worldwide Court Reporting
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`
`WAG, Exhibit 2011
`Amazon.com, Inc. v. WAG Acquisition, LLC, IPR2022-01433
`Page 16 of 131
`
`
`
`Dr. Nathaniel Polish - May 25, 2023
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` want to make sure I get these numbered
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` correctly.
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` Okay. So I'm going to give you
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` what I've marked as Exhibit 2594.
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` (Whereupon the above mentioned was
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` marked for Identification.)
`
` Q And what this is, this is your
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`declaration from the -- from IPR 20221411 on
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`the '594 patent.
`
` A Okay.
`
` Q The reason why I've numbered it
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`that way -- because otherwise we will have
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`three exhibits all numbered 1002, so I --
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`this way, for the -- for the 2000
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`representing our exhibits and 594 for the
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`name of the patent number, but for the
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`record, this is just a copy of what was put
`
`in that IPR as Exhibit 1002.
`
` You probably have that -- you
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`probably already had this, but, you know, I
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`just want to confirm.
`
` There's no list -- there's no list
`
`of cases in here.
`
` Right?
`
` A (Witness reviewing.)
`
`GregoryEdwards, LLC | Worldwide Court Reporting
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`
`WAG, Exhibit 2011
`Amazon.com, Inc. v. WAG Acquisition, LLC, IPR2022-01433
`Page 17 of 131
`
`
`
`Dr. Nathaniel Polish - May 25, 2023
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`Page 18
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` Q The last page is your signature?
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` A (Witness reviewing.)
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` Q I want to make a clear record.
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`That's all. I'll download and print this out
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`and put an exhibit number on it, and we can
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`have this -- have the CV.
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` A Sure. Right.
`
` The only thing that's referenced in
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`here is Exhibit 1067, my CV, and then my CV
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`has the reference that I just mentioned to
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`you that talks about expert witness
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`documents, but there's no expert witness list
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`within this declaration. That's correct.
`
` Q All right. Let's see. Let's
`
`create one. Let me see where that went.
`
` (Whereupon a discussion was held
`
`off the record.)
`
` MR. ABRAMSON: Call this Exhibit
`
` 2017.
`
` (Whereupon the above mentioned was
`
` marked for Identification.)
`
` MR. ABRAMSON: MP litigation list,
`
` it's -- it's going to be Exhibit 2017.
`
` (Whereupon a discussion was held
`
` off the record.)
`
`GregoryEdwards, LLC | Worldwide Court Reporting
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`
`WAG, Exhibit 2011
`Amazon.com, Inc. v. WAG Acquisition, LLC, IPR2022-01433
`Page 18 of 131
`
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`Dr. Nathaniel Polish - May 25, 2023
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` MR. ABRAMSON: Now I'll put this in
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` the chat.
`
` Does everybody have that?
`
` THE WITNESS: I do.
`
` MR. ABRAMSON: I will open it
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` myself. I will make a copy of it and
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` put it where it's supposed to be.
`
` Q All right. So looking at this
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`list, this list says it's current as of
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`February of 2023.
`
` A Yes.
`
` Q And is that accurate?
`
` A I try to be.
`
` The issue is some of these matters,
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`my involvement is confidential -- some
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`matters, my involvement is confidential.
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` When matters are -- where I've been
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`disclosed or where it's no longer
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`confidential, they make it onto this list, so
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`I try to keep it current.
`
` (Whereupon a discussion was held
`
`off the record.)
`
` Q How many of these cases did you
`
`represent the patent owner or you appear on
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`behalf of the patent owner?
`
`GregoryEdwards, LLC | Worldwide Court Reporting
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`
`WAG, Exhibit 2011
`Amazon.com, Inc. v. WAG Acquisition, LLC, IPR2022-01433
`Page 19 of 131
`
`
`
`Dr. Nathaniel Polish - May 25, 2023
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` A I haven't made a -- I haven't made
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`a current count. Yes, I can't tell you an
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`exact number.
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` Q Well, just going down the list, can
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`you point out the ones where you appeared on
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`behalf of the patent owner?
`
` A So the way this list works is that
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`on the case and jurisdiction column, there's
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`a list of a case, and the party that's bolded
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`is the case that I was working on behalf of.
`
` Q Okay.
`
` A Now, of course, some of these
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`things are going to be where the patent
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`owners, it's on the defense, but in some
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`cases the patent owner is on the offense, but
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`you can see which side I was on based on
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`that.
`
` You know, I think generally I'm --
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`you know, I'm pretty equal between, you know,
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`call it infringement versus invalidity or,
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`you know -- I'm, generally speaking, pretty
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`even between for the patent and against the
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`patent.
`
` Q Okay.
`
` A If there's an imbalance, it's not
`
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`
`WAG, Exhibit 2011
`Amazon.com, Inc. v. WAG Acquisition, LLC, IPR2022-01433
`Page 20 of 131
`
`
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`Dr. Nathaniel Polish - May 25, 2023
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`going to be a large one.
`
` Q Okay. I see in your declaration
`
`you show your hourly rate, I believe 700 an
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`hour?
`
` A Yes.
`
` Q On how much of the -- strike that.
`
` When were you retained in this
`
`case?
`
` A I think I was retained something
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`like around a year ago, about June of last
`
`year. I think. I haven't looked at it in a
`
`while, so...
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` Q And approximately how much have you
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`billed on this case since then?
`
` A Oh, I don't know. I haven't looked
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`in a while.
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` You know, most of the work went
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`in to prepare the declarations and the
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`declarations, I think, went in at the end of
`
`last summer.
`
` And I haven't -- other than
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`prepping for this deposition, I haven't done
`
`all that much work since.
`
` I couldn't tell you. It's got to
`
`be on the order of a couple hundred hours.
`
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`
`WAG, Exhibit 2011
`Amazon.com, Inc. v. WAG Acquisition, LLC, IPR2022-01433
`Page 21 of 131
`
`
`
`Dr. Nathaniel Polish - May 25, 2023
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` Q Okay. In the area of streaming,
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`are you familiar with the terms "push" and
`
`"pull"?
`
` A Broadly speaking, yes.
`
` Q Can you explain how you understand
`
`those words?
`
` A Sure. I think there's a couple of
`
`places I explain in my declaration.
`
` I think there's an example I give
`
`about newspaper delivery, and I'll just --
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`I'll just bring that one up since that's what
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`I used in the declaration --
`
` Q Okay.
`
` A -- in the situation where you've
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`subscribed to the newspaper and it's being
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`delivered to your door, so every morning you
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`get up and at 7~o'clock in the morning,
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`someone has delivered the paper to your door,
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`that's a push system where the newspaper
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`company has pushed it to your door. Whether
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`you are there to receive it or not, it just
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`shows up at your door.
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` And, alternatively, you can go to
`
`the newsstand and buy one when you want it,
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`maybe on the way to work or something, and
`
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`
`WAG, Exhibit 2011
`Amazon.com, Inc. v. WAG Acquisition, LLC, IPR2022-01433
`Page 22 of 131
`
`
`
`Dr. Nathaniel Polish - May 25, 2023
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`that's pull, where you're taking the
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`newspaper when you're ready to receive it.
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` So that's -- you know, that's an
`
`analogy for what it is in streaming, where
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`instead of newspapers you're talking about
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`quantities of mulled media content.
`
` Q Okay. You said -- you give the
`
`example of a newspaper, where the newspaper
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`company pushed it to your door.
`
` What about the food delivery guys
`
`who push menus under your door? That's push,
`
`too?
`
` MR. GARDNER: Objection to form.
`
` A Well, so that could be considered
`
`push.
`
` The problem with that analogy is
`
`that -- I mean newspapers are printed every
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`day, and so they're produced on a regular
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`basis and, therefore, delivered on a regular
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`basis.
`
` The -- at least in New York City,
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`where I live, the menus under the door tends
`
`to be when your neighbor purchases some food
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`for delivery, you have the misfortune of
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`having the menus shoved under your door.
`
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`
`WAG, Exhibit 2011
`Amazon.com, Inc. v. WAG Acquisition, LLC, IPR2022-01433
`Page 23 of 131
`
`
`
`Dr. Nathaniel Polish - May 25, 2023
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` So it's not a regular occurrence.
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`It's sort of haphazard when some other event
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`occurs that leads to the person putting it
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`under your door.
`
` It's sort of -- it's not really an
`
`analogous thing related to the multimedia
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`content.
`
` Q How about a -- how about a bot that
`
`sends out spam to recipients, recipients,
`
`from their end? That would be a push.
`
` Correct?
`
` A Again, that's not precisely the
`
`same, but I think receiving something that
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`you have -- receiving something that is sent
`
`to you, not in response to a specific
`
`request, is generally push.
`
` I can answer -- go ahead.
`
` Q Okay. In the case of the
`
`newspaper, you did ask -- you did ask the
`
`newspaper at some point to make these
`
`deliveries?
`
` A That's right.
`
` I mean, there's a subscription, and
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`part of the agreement of the subscription is
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`I'm going to be sent newspapers on a regular
`
`GregoryEdwards, LLC | Worldwide Court Reporting
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`
`WAG, Exhibit 2011
`Amazon.com, Inc. v. WAG Acquisition, LLC, IPR2022-01433
`Page 24 of 131
`
`
`
`Dr. Nathaniel Polish - May 25, 2023
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`basis.
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` Of course, a lot of spam would like
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`to claim that they -- that I asked for, you
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`know, offers for Caribbean time shares, but
`
`generally speaking, spam is sent unsolicited.
`
` Q Right. But either of those could
`
`be a push?
`
` A Yes.
`
` Q Okay. Let me ask you another
`
`question:
`
` Are you familiar with the term
`
`"download"?
`
` A Well, I mean broadly, yes, of
`
`course.
`
` Q How do you understand that?
`
` A Well, just for example, on this
`
`computer that I'm using in front of me right
`
`now, you put a document into the chat, and I
`
`clicked on something which said, "Download,"
`
`and that caused the document to be
`
`transferred from a server somewhere into this
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`local computer.
`
` So that was a -- presumably a
`
`request this computer made to that server to
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`bring it into this local computer for me to
`
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`
`WAG, Exhibit 2011
`Amazon.com, Inc. v. WAG Acquisition, LLC, IPR2022-01433
`Page 25 of 131
`
`
`
`Dr. Nathaniel Polish - May 25, 2023
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`look at.
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` Q Okay. Okay. All right. Okay.
`
` So in order for you to do that, I
`
`had to direct that document to my chat and
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`click a little button to send it.
`
` Right?
`
` A Yeah, I presume so. Yeah.
`
` There may be other ways to get it
`
`into the chat. I don't know, but that sounds
`
`right for that particular example of Zoom.
`
` Q And it went -- before you got it,
`
`it went somewhere.
`
` Right?
`
` A Again, I'm not -- I'm not
`
`particularly sure of exactly how Zoom is
`
`handling it. I presume that you uploaded the
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`document from your computer into -- actually,
`
`yeah, I presume you uploaded the document
`
`somewhere in order for me to be able to
`
`download it, but I'm not sure of the work
`
`flow within Zoom.
`
` Q Let's assume that that's what
`
`happened. That I uploaded the document
`
`somewhere, and then you later saw it in your
`
`chat and clicked on it. Let's assume that
`
`GregoryEdwards, LLC | Worldwide Court Reporting
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`
`WAG, Exhibit 2011
`Amazon.com, Inc. v. WAG Acquisition, LLC, IPR2022-01433
`Page 26 of 131
`
`
`
`Dr. Nathaniel Polish - May 25, 2023
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`was the scenario.
`
` Right?
`
` A Okay.
`
` Q And let's assume that the somewhere
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`was a Zoom machine, the machine that was run
`
`by Zoom. Okay?
`
` A Yeah.
`
` Q So, would it be proper to say that
`
`when you clicked on your button, that Zoom
`
`downloaded the file to you?
`
` A Yes, that's -- I think that's a
`
`fair characterization of it.
`
` Q Okay. Let's turn to your
`
`declaration, the one -- the one that we
`
`marked as 2594, and I'd like you to turn to
`
`paragraph 79, which is on page 46.
`
` Are you there?
`
` A Note quite. Just a second.
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` Q Okay. Take a minute. Let me know
`
`when you're ready.
`
` A (Witness reviewing.)
`
` Sorry. Paragraph 79, you said?
`
` Q Yeah.
`
` A Okay. I'm there.
`
` Q Okay. So this is -- I'm going to
`
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`
`WAG, Exhibit 2011
`Amazon.com, Inc. v. WAG Acquisition, LLC, IPR2022-01433
`Page 27 of 131
`
`
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`Dr. Nathaniel Polish - May 25, 2023
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`mark another exhibit.
`
` You're referring here to a
`
`reference called Carmel.
`
` Correct?
`
` A Yes.
`
` MR. ABRAMSON: And that was --
`
` doesn't say so here, but it was Exhibit
`
` 1005 in that case.
`
` All right. Rather than make that
`
` distinction, since Carmel is --
`
` everybody -- there's no dispute over
`
` what the contents of that is, I think
`
` I'm going to upload one version of it so
`
` that we don't have to get confused with
`
` multiple versions.
`
` Let me find that one. Sorry. It's
`
` over here. All right.
`
` This one, the one that I'm
`
` uploading is marked as Exhibit 1003.
`
` Let me see what case that was from. It
`
` doesn't say. The third doesn't say
`
` which case it's from. I'm sorry.
`
` Just give me a minute off the
`
` record. I'm going to just make sure
`
` that -- which case this is coming from
`
`GregoryEdwards, LLC | Worldwide Court Reporting
`GregoryEdwards.com | 866-4Team GE
`
`WAG, Exhibit 2011
`Amazon.com, Inc. v. WAG Acquisition, LLC, IPR2022-01433
`Page 28 of 131
`
`
`
`Dr. Nathaniel Polish - May 25, 2023
`
`Page 29
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` and whether there's any ambiguity in
`
` the -- in the numbering, so this will
`
` take me about a minute. Okay?
`
` MR. GARDNER: I think you will find
`
` that 1003 is the same, Carmel 1003 is
`
` the same in all three IPRs.
`
` (Whereupon a discussion was held
`
` off the record.)
`
` MR. ABRAMSON: I'll accept that.
`
` I'll accept that. Here we go.
`
` MR. GARDNER: I'm not trying to
`
` trick you. I'm just trying to -- like I
`
` said, our intent was to try to make it
`
` so that the same exhibit numbers follow
`
` through.
`
` MR. ABRAMSON: I appreciate that.
`
` And, you know, sometimes it's hard to do
`
` that, and that's fine. And -- that's
`
` fine.
`
` This is one of those examples where
`
` the document has to be the same anyway,
`
` so I'm not too concerned, bu
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