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` P A T E N T T R I A L A N D A P P E A L S B O A R D
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` - - o O o - -
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`M E T A P L A T F O R M S , I N C . ,
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` P e t i t i o n e r ,
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`v s . C a s e N o .
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` I P R 2 0 2 2 - 0 1 2 9 4
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`T H A L E S V I S I O N I X , I N C . ,
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` P a t e n t O w n e r .
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`_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ /
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` D E P O S I T I O N O F U L R I C H N E U M A N N , P h . D .
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` S A N F R A N C I S C O , C A L I F O R N I A
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` T U E S D A Y , M A Y 2 3 , 2 0 2 3
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`R e p o r t e d b y :
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`A n r a e W i m b e r l e y , C S R N o . 7 7 7 8
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`J o b N o . 5 9 1 6 3 7 1
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`Veritext Legal Solutions
`215-241-1000 ~ 610-434-8588 ~ 302-571-0510 ~ 202-803-8830
`
`IPR2022-01308
`Exhibit 2010
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` PATENT TRIAL AND APPEALS BOARD
`
` --oOo--
`
`META PLATFORMS, INC.,
`
` Petitioner,
`
`vs. Case No.
`
` IPR2022-01294
`
`THALES VISIONIX, INC.,
`
` Patent Owner.
`
`_______________________________/
`
` Transcript of deposition of ULRICH
`
`NEUMANN, Ph.D., taken at Kirkland & Ellis LLP, 555
`
`California Street, 27th Floor, San Francisco,
`
`California 94104, and via Zoom videoconference,
`
`beginning at 9:08 a.m. and ending at 4:24 p.m. on
`
`Tuesday, March 23, 2023, before Anrae Wimberley,
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`Certified Shorthand Reporter No. 7778.
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`IPR2022-01308
`Exhibit 2010
`Page 2 of 10
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`APPEARANCES:
`
`For Petitioner Meta Platforms, Inc.:
`
` KIRKLAND & ELLIS LLP
`
` BY: AKSHAY DEORAS, ESQ.
`
` YAN-XIN LI, ESQ.
`
` 555 California Street, Suite 2700
`
` San Francisco, California 94104
`
` (415) 439-1416
`
` akshay.deoras@kirkland.com
`
` yanxin.li@kirkland.com
`
`For Gentex Corporation (Real Party-In-Interest):
`
` WILLIAMS & CONNOLLY LLP
`
` BY: DAVID KRINSKY, ESQ.
`
` ANDREW BORRASSO, ESQ.
`
` MELISSA COLLINS, ESQ. (VIA ZOOM)
`
` ADAM HARBER, ESQ. (VIA ZOOM)
`
` 680 Maine Avenue SW
`
` Washington DC 20024
`
` (202) 434-5000
`
` dkrinsky@wc.com
`
` aborrasso@wc.com
`
` mcollins@wc.com
`
` aharber@wc.com
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`IPR2022-01308
`Exhibit 2010
`Page 3 of 10
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`For Patent Owner Thales Visionix, Inc.:
`
` ADDYHART PC
`
` BY: GREGORY B. GULLIVER, ESQ. (VIA ZOOM)
`
` BRANDON HELMS, ESQ. (VIA ZOOM)
`
` 401 N. Michigan Avenue, Suite 1200-1
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` Chicago, Illinois 60611
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` (312) 731-6568
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` gbgulliver@addyhart.com
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` bhelms@addyhart.com
`
` --oOo--
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`Veritext Legal Solutions
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`
`IPR2022-01308
`Exhibit 2010
`Page 4 of 10
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`
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`Page 5
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` I N D E X
`EXAMINATION BY: PAGE
`Mr. Krinsky 8
`Mr. Deoras 221
`Mr. Krinsky 223
`
` --oOo--
`
` E X H I B I T S P R E V I O U S L Y M A R K E D
`EXHIBIT DESCRIPTION PAGE
`Exhibit 1001 U.S. Patent No. 8,224,024 9
` B2, no Bates numbers; 14
` pages
`Exhibit 1003 Declaration of Dr. Ulrich 9
` Neumann Under C.F.R. ยง1.68
` in Support of Petition for
` Inter Partes Review of
` U.S. Patent No. 8,224,024,
` no Bates numbers; 99 pages
`
`Exhibit 1005 FlightTracker: A Novel 38
` Optical/Inertial Tracker
` for Cockpit Enhanced
` Vision, no Bates numbers;
` 10 pages
`
`Exhibit 1010 U.S. Patent Application 192
` No. US 2004/0172838 A1, no
` Bates numbers; 30 pages
`
`Exhibit 1019 Model Based Perspective 145
` Inversion by A. D. Worrall
` et al., no Bates numbers;
` 6 pages
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`
`IPR2022-01308
`Exhibit 2010
`Page 5 of 10
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`
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`Page 6
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`E X H I B I T S P R E V I O U S L Y M A R K E D
`
`EXHIBIT DESCRIPTION PAGE
`
`Exhibit 1021 Fundamentals of Wearable 107
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` Computers and Augmented
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` Reality by Barfield et
`
` al., no Bates numbers; 694
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` pages
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`Exhibit 1023 An Introduction to the 155
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` Kalman Filter, no Bates
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` numbers; 80 pages
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` --oOo--
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`QUESTIONS WITNESS INSTRUCTED NOT TO ANSWER:
`
` (None.)
`
` --oOo--
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`IPR2022-01308
`Exhibit 2010
`Page 6 of 10
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`Page 7
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` TUESDAY, MARCH 23, 2023;
`
` DEPOSITION VIA ZOOM;
`
` 9:08 A.M.
`
` - - -
`
` MR. KRINSKY: On the record.
`
` David Krinsky of Williams & Connolly LLP
`
`on behalf of Gentex.
`
` MR. BORRASSO: Andrew Borrasso, Williams &
`
`Connolly LLP on behalf of Gentex.
`
` MR. DEORAS: Akshay Deoras from Kirkland &
`
`Ellis LLP on behalf of Meta Platforms, and with me
`
`today is Yan-Xin Li.
`
` MR. KRINSKY: And I apologize. I actually
`
`can't entirely -- I'm not sure I can see everyone
`
`who is on, so if the people on Zoom could just
`
`identify themselves as well, please.
`
` MR. GULLIVER: Gregory Gulliver of AddyHart
`
`representing Thales.
`
` MR. HELMS: Brandon Helms with AddyHart
`
`representing Thales.
`
` MS. COLLINS: Melissa Collins, Williams &
`
`Connolly, for Gentex.
`
` (Witness sworn.)
`
` MR. DEORAS: Before we get started, Counsel, I
`
`just wanted to object for the record that to the
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`215-241-1000 ~ 610-434-8588 ~ 302-571-0510 ~ 202-803-8830
`
`IPR2022-01308
`Exhibit 2010
`Page 7 of 10
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`
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`Page 18
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`that point in time in the '90s, probably -- and
`
`since then basically has been driving prices down.
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`So that's what I mean. They're becoming more
`
`common, they're becoming more accessible, and more
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`people make them and they're cheaper.
`
` Q. I see. So we moved from a world where
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`inertial sensors were comparatively expensive to
`
`today, they're relatively cheap.
`
` A. That's right. And the motion certainly
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`had started in the '90s, when I was involved in this
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`kind of work, and proceeded from there.
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` Q. Before your work on this case, had you
`
`heard of Eric Foxlin?
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` A. Oh, yes.
`
` Q. And who is Eric Foxlin?
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` A. Eric Foxlin was a scientist, businessman,
`
`researcher. I guess you could give him a number of
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`titles. He worked in this field, published papers,
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`went to conferences, built devices and sold devices.
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`InterSense, I believe, was their company at that
`
`time, but there may have been other names. I don't
`
`remember.
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` And so, yeah, he was a figure in the field
`
`that people who were doing work in the field knew
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`of. He was a colleague.
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`
`IPR2022-01308
`Exhibit 2010
`Page 8 of 10
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`
`
`Page 19
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` Q. Would you say he was well-respected?
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` A. Yeah.
`
` Q. And you mentioned InterSense.
`
` That's the company he was working for? It
`
`was his company?
`
` A. I can't remember if it changed its name
`
`over different periods, but that's the name I most
`
`recall associating with the company, yeah.
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` Q. And InterSense was one of the relatively
`
`few companies doing work with inertial sensors in
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`that time frame; is that fair?
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` MR. DEORAS: Objection; form.
`
` THE WITNESS: Yeah, it's very difficult for me
`
`to give a blanket sort of statement on that. I was
`
`aware of InterSense. There may have been others,
`
`and at the moment, I can't recall.
`
`BY MR. KRINSKY:
`
` Q. Okay. But you were familiar with
`
`InterSense as a company that was a leader and worked
`
`with inertial sensors?
`
` A. I was familiar with InterSense because of
`
`Eric's presence at conferences that I was attending,
`
`presenting papers at. And his products were
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`basically finding use in this domain, yeah.
`
` Q. And can you name -- well, strike that.
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`
`IPR2022-01308
`Exhibit 2010
`Page 9 of 10
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`
`
`Page 225
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`MR. KRINSKY: Before we go off the record,
`
`thank you very much for your time today.
`
`It was a
`
`pleasure meeting you.
`
`THE WITNESS: You're welcome.
`
`Pleasure to meet
`
`you.
`
`MR. DEORAS:
`
`We can go off the record.
`
`THE REPORTER:
`
`Any designation for the
`
`transcript?
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`MR. DEORAS: No.
`
`MR. KRINSKY: No.
`
`(Whereupon,
`
`the proceedings were concluded
`
`at 4:24 p.m.)
`
`---0o00---
`
`UhhBod
`
`ULRICH NEUMANN, Ph.D.
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`
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`Veritext Legal Solutions
`215-241-1000 ~ 610-434-8588 ~ 302-571-0510 ~ 202-803-8830
`
`IPR2022-01308
`IPR2022-01308
`Exhibit 2010
`Exhibit 2010
`Page 10 of 10
`Page 10 of 10
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`