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`Apple, Inc. v. Masimo Corp.
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`Dr. William P. King
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`Page 1
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` UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`_____________________________
`APPLE INC.,
`
`))
`
`))
`
` Case Nos.
`) IPR2022-01299
`)
`
`))
`
`Petitioner,
`
` vs.
`
`MASIMO CORPORATION,
`
` U.S. Patent
`) 7,761,127
`Patent Owner.
`_____________________________)
`
`DEPOSITION OF DR. WILLIAM P. KING
`August 8, 2023
`10:00 a.m.
`
`Reported by: Eileen Mulvenna, CSR/RMR/CRR
`
`________________________________________________
`DIGITAL EVIDENCE GROUP
`1730 M Street, NW, Suite 812
`Washington, D.C. 20036
`(202) 232-0646
`
`www.DigitalEvidenceGroup.comDigital Evidence Group C'rt 2023
`
`202-232-0646
`
`APPLE 1057
`Apple v. Masimo
`IPR2022-01299
`
`1
`
`
`
`Apple, Inc. v. Masimo Corp.
`
`Dr. William P. King
`
`Page 1
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` UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`_____________________________
`APPLE INC.,
`
`))
`
`))
`
` Case Nos.
`) IPR2022-01299
`)
`
`))
`
`Petitioner,
`
` vs.
`
`MASIMO CORPORATION,
`
` U.S. Patent
`) 7,761,127
`Patent Owner.
`_____________________________)
`
`DEPOSITION OF DR. WILLIAM P. KING
`August 8, 2023
`10:00 a.m.
`
`Reported by: Eileen Mulvenna, CSR/RMR/CRR
`
`________________________________________________
`DIGITAL EVIDENCE GROUP
`1730 M Street, NW, Suite 812
`Washington, D.C. 20036
`(202) 232-0646
`
`www.DigitalEvidenceGroup.comDigital Evidence Group C'rt 2023
`
`202-232-0646
`
`APPLE 1057
`Apple v. Masimo
`IPR2022-01299
`
`1
`
`
`
`8/8/2023
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`Apple, Inc. v. Masimo Corp.
`
`Dr. William P. King
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`Page 2
`
` REMOTE VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION of
`DR. WILLIAM P. KING, Declarant for Patent Owner in
`the above-titled action, held on Tuesday, August 8,
`2023, commencing at approximately 10:00 a.m., before
`Eileen Mulvenna, CSR/RMR/CRR, Certified Shorthand
`Reporter, Registered Merit Reporter, Certified
`Realtime Reporter, and Notary Public of the State of
`New York.
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`Page 3
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`APPEARANCES:
`
`ON BEHALF OF THE PETITIONER:
`FISH & RICHARDSON
`BY: NICHOLAS STEPHENS, ESQ.
`3200 RBC Plaza
`60 South Sixth Street
`Minneapolis, Minnesota 55402
`202.783.5070
`nstephens@fr.com
`
`ON BEHALF OF PATENT OWNER:
`KNOBBE, MARTENS, OLSON & BEAR, LLP
`BY: TED M. CANNON, ESQ.
`2040 Main Street
`Irvine, California 92614
`949.760.0404
`ted.cannon@knobbe.com
`
`ALSO PRESENT:
`DANIEL HOLMSTOCK, Document Technician
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`Page 4
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` I N D E X
`WITNESS EXAMINATION BY PAGE
`DR. WILLIAM P. KING
`
` MR. STEPHENS 7
` MR. CANNON 165
`
` E X H I B I T S
` PAGE
`
`Exhibit 1001 Declaration of Brian 9
` Anthony, Ph.D.
`Exhibit 2151 Declaration of William P. 10
` King, Ph.D.
`Exhibit 1004 Yamada Reference 11
`Exhibit 1005 Chadwick Reference 11
`Exhibit 1006 Liebowitz Reference 11
`Exhibit 1007 Cheung Reference 11
`Exhibit 1008 Noguchi Reference 12
`Exhibit 1014 Scarlett Reference 12
`Exhibit 2053 Webster Reference 12
`Exhibit 2067 Huiku Reference 13
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`(Continued)
` E X H I B I T S
`Exhibit 1050 Oldham Patent Application 157
` Publication US 2005/0279949
` A1
`Exhibit 1051 IEEE paper by Subramanian 163
` Muthu
`Exhibit 1052 US Patent publication 163
` number 2003/0230765
`Exhibit 1053 US Patent Publication 164
` 2010/0259182
`Exhibit 1054 US Patent 7,055,986 to 164
` Littleton
`Exhibit Patent Owner Response 17
`Paper 37
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`Page 6
` THE REPORTER: Before swearing in the
` witness, I have a short statement for the
` record.
` The attorneys participating in this
` deposition acknowledge that I am not
` physically present in the deposition room and
` that I will be reporting this deposition
` remotely. They further acknowledge that, in
` lieu of an oath administered in person, I
` will administer the oath.
` Do all counsel consent to this
` arrangement and waive any objections to this
` manner of reporting?
` MR. STEPHENS: That's fine with
` Petitioner. We consent.
` MR. CANNON: That's fine with Patent
` Owner.
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`DR. WILLIAM P. KING,
` having been duly sworn by Eileen Mulvenna,
` a Notary Public of the State of New York,
` was examined and testified as follows:
`EXAMINATION
`BY MR. STEPHENS:
` Q. Okay. Thank you for being here this
`morning, Dr. King. My name is Nick Stephens. I'm
`counsel on behalf of Petitioner, Apple, Inc.
` MR. STEPHENS: Would counsel for
` Patent Owner like to make an appearance?
` MR. CANNON: Yes, this is Ted Cannon
` of Knobbe Martens for Patent Owner, Massimo.
`BY MR. STEPHENS:
` Q. So we're here today regarding IPR
`proceeding 2022-01299 regarding U.S.
`Patent 7,761,127.
` Do you understand that, Dr. King?
` A. Yes, I do.
` Q. And this deposition is being
`transcribed today. You understand that?
` A. Yes.
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` Q. To ensure a clean record, I'll aim not
`to interrupt you during your answers. Will you aim
`to do the same during my questions?
` A. Yes.
` Q. And if you need a break at any time
`during the deposition, please feel free to let me
`know. In general, I'll aim to take a break every
`hour or so, and then we'll plan to take a lunch
`break midday.
` Does that work for you?
` A. Yes. Thank you.
` Q. Can you please state your full name?
` A. William Paul King.
` Q. And can you please state your city of
`residence?
` A. Champaign, Illinois.
` Q. You understand that you are under oath
`for this deposition?
` A. Yes, I understand.
` Q. And is there any reason that you
`cannot give truthful and accurate testimony today?
` A. There is no reason.
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` Q. To ensure clarity, I'll define several
`terms that I'll use throughout the deposition. When
`I use the terms "Patent Owner" or "Massimo," I'm
`referring to Massimo Corporation.
` Do you understand?
` A. Yes.
` Q. And when I use the term "Petitioner"
`or "Apple," I'm referring to Apple, Inc.
` Do you understand?
` A. Yes.
` (Exhibit 1001, US Patent 7,761,127.)
`BY MR. STEPHENS:
` Q. When I refer to the "'127 patent," I'm
`referring to U.S. Patent 7,761,127, which is marked
`as Exhibit 1001 in this proceeding.
` Do you understand?
` A. Yes.
` Q. And when I use the phrase "this IPR"
`or "this proceeding," I'm referring to
`IPR 2022-01299.
` Do you understand?
` A. Yes.
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` Q. I'll be using the acronym "POSITA"
`today. And when I do so, I'm referring to a person
`of ordinary skill in the art at the time of the
`alleged invention.
` You understand?
` A. Yes.
` (Exhibit 2151, Declaration of William
` P. King, Ph.D.)
`BY MR. STEPHENS:
` Q. I may refer to a number of exhibits
`over the course of the deposition, and I'd just like
`to index a few of them now.
` When I refer to "your declaration" or
`"the declaration," I'm referring to Exhibit 2151 in
`this proceeding unless I indicate otherwise.
` Do you understand?
` A. Yes.
` Q. And I'll specifically be referring to
`the redacted version of your declaration. So I
`think you can reference either one, but the
`deposition today will focus on the non-redacted
`portions of the declaration.
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` A. Okay. Thank you.
` (Exhibit 1004, Yamada Reference.)
`BY MR. STEPHENS:
` Q. When I refer to "Yamada," I'm
`referring to Exhibit 1004.
` Do you understand?
` A. Yes.
` (Exhibit 1005, Chadwick Reference.)
`BY MR. STEPHENS:
` Q. And when I refer to "Chadwick," I'm
`referring to Exhibit 1005.
` Do you understand?
` A. Yes.
` (Exhibit 1006, Liebowitz Reference,
` received and marked.)
`BY MR. STEPHENS:
` Q. When I refer to "Leibowitz," I'm
`referring to Exhibit 1006.
` Do you understand?
` A. Yes.
` (Exhibit 1007, Cheung Reference.)
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`BY MR. STEPHENS:
` Q. When I refer to "Cheung," I'm
`referring to Exhibit 1007.
` Do you understand?
` A. Yes.
` (Exhibit 1008, Noguchi Reference.)
`BY MR. STEPHENS:
` Q. When I refer to "Noguchi," I'm
`referring to Exhibit 1008.
` Do you understand?
` A. Yes.
` (Exhibit 1014, Scarlett Reference.)
`BY MR. STEPHENS:
` Q. When I refer to "Scarlett," I'm
`referring to Exhibit 1014.
` Do you understand?
` A. Yes.
` (Exhibit 2053, Webster Reference.)
`BY MR. STEPHENS:
` Q. When I refer to "Webster," I'm
`referring to Exhibit 2053.
` Do you understand?
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` A. Yes.
` (Exhibit 2067, Huiku Reference.)
`BY MR. STEPHENS:
` Q. Finally, when I refer to "Huiku," I'm
`referring to Exhibit 2067.
` Do you understand?
` A. Yes, I do.
` Q. Can you please describe how you
`prepared for today's deposition?
` A. In preparation for today's deposition,
`I reviewed my declaration and some of the exhibits,
`and I met with Mr. Cannon to discuss my declaration.
` Q. Approximately how much time did you
`spend preparing for the deposition today?
` A. Referring to the time that I spent
`since my declaration was completed, perhaps a day or
`so of work preparing for today.
` Q. Who did you work with in preparing to
`testify today?
` A. I worked with Mr. Cannon in preparing
`to testify today. No one else.
` Q. What documents did you review in
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`preparation for the deposition?
` A. I reviewed my declaration. I reviewed
`portions of the '127 patent, portions of Cheung,
`Yamada, Noguchi. That's what I recall.
` Q. Did you conduct any independent search
`for material not cited in your declaration in
`preparation for the deposition?
` A. No, I did not.
` Q. When were you first contacted to work
`on this case on behalf of Massimo?
` A. I believe that I was contacted in the
`month of April.
` Q. April 2023?
` A. April 2023, yes.
` Q. And were you aware of Massimo as a
`company before they contacted you for this
`proceeding?
` A. I had low awareness but some awareness
`of Massimo and their general business in the area of
`medical devices.
` Q. You had never done any previous work
`on behalf of Massimo?
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` A. That's correct.
` Q. And when did you first become aware of
`the '127 patent?
` A. When I met with Mr. Cannon for the
`first time, I became aware of the '127 patent.
` Q. And that would have been around
`April 2023?
` A. Yes, I believe April 2023.
` Q. Are you aware that the '127 patent has
`been the subject of an ITC investigation involving
`the parties in this proceeding?
` A. Yes, I am aware.
` Q. And had you done any work on behalf of
`Massimo for the ITC proceeding?
` A. No.
` Q. Can you please describe the process by
`which you prepared your declaration?
` MR. CANNON: I would just caution the
` witness to not disclose any conversation or
` communications with -- with the attorneys,
` but you may answer the question.
` THE WITNESS: The process involved
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` reviewing the '127 patent, reviewing prior
` art, including the prior art that you
` mentioned, Mr. Stephens.
` I also reviewed some other technical
` artifacts and documents that are described in
` my declaration, including things like
` textbooks and reference tables and things of
` that nature.
` I also reviewed some of the prior
` documents from both Apple and from Massimo
` that were part of the court record.
`BY MR. STEPHENS:
` Q. Do you recall did those prior
`documents include any expert declarations submitted
`in this proceeding before your own?
` A. I do not recall. I do not think that
`I read previous expert declarations before I
`prepared my own.
` Q. Can you approximate what percentage of
`your declaration you personally wrote versus
`reviewing words written by someone else?
` A. The words in the declaration, all of
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`those words are my words.
` Q. When you say that they're your words,
`you personally drafted those words?
` A. I would say most of the words I
`personally drafted. All of the words, I -- I
`edited, reviewed, and included ultimately in my
`declaration. I'm not sure that I could assign a
`percentage of the words of what was originally
`written down simply because the declaration went
`through many revisions, and I was responsible for
`the revisions.
` Q. Approximately how many hours do you
`recall spending preparing your declaration?
` A. Around -- approximately 60 hours.
` Q. In the course of preparing your
`declaration, did you review the Patent Owner's
`response that was submitted in this proceeding?
` A. I believe that I reviewed some
`documents from the Patent Owner. Could you refer to
`a specific document?
` Q. One moment. I'm referring to
`Paper 37, Patent Owner's response to the petition.
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` A. Yes, I believe I reviewed -- actually,
`I'm not sure if I reviewed this specific document.
` Q. You don't recall whether you reviewed
`the Patent Owner's response?
` A. I would need to --
` THE WITNESS: Could you please flip
` through the document a little bit so I can
` see some of the content?
` (Document review.)
` THE WITNESS: Yeah, I apologize, I
` don't recall if I reviewed this specific
` document or not.
` MR. STEPHENS: Okay. That's fine.
` You can take that document down.
` THE WITNESS: Is that document
` referred to in my declaration?
`BY MR. STEPHENS:
` Q. I do not believe so.
` A. Okay.
` Q. In preparing your declaration, did you
`communicate in any way with any of the named
`inventors on the '127 patent?
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` A. I had no communication with the named
`inventors.
` Q. And to be specific, did you ever
`communicate with Mohamed Diab?
` A. I did not communicate with Mohamed
`Diab.
` Q. Did you communicate with anyone
`besides Patent Owner's attorneys in preparing your
`declaration?
` A. Yes, I did. I had one conversation
`with a Massimo employee who was responsible for
`software development, and we had a discussion about
`some of the source code.
` Q. And besides that Massimo employee, do
`you recall anyone else that you communicated with in
`connection with preparation of your declaration?
` A. In addition to Mr. Cannon, there was
`one other attorney that -- that attended one
`meeting, and that was it.
` Q. I'll refer to your declaration,
`paragraph 3. And here you provide a table that
`contains a list of documents that you indicate you
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`had reviewed and considered in conducting the
`analysis in forming the opinions set forth in the
`declaration; is that right?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Is this a comprehensive list of
`documents that you reviewed?
` A. I believe it is, yes.
` Q. Do you recall considering any other
`documents not identified in this table in preparing
`the declaration?
` A. There were a few cases where I was
`evaluating the most appropriate references to
`include. I believe I consulted one or two heat
`transfer textbooks that are not included in the
`list, but I ultimately did not use those. I chose
`the ones that are presented in the declaration
`instead.
` I think the same is true for the
`material property reference tables that I cite in
`the declaration. I think in those cases I also
`looked at some alternative options, ultimately did
`not use those. I used the ones that are reported
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`here in the declaration.
` Q. And do you recall why you selected the
`ones that are cited in the declaration versus the
`other ones that you reviewed?
` MR. CANNON: Objection, calls for the
` expert's mental impressions. I instruct the
` witness not to answer.
` MR. STEPHENS: Counsel, I believe the
` only basis for instructing the witness not to
` answer would be for privilege. Are you
` contending that it's privileged?
` MR. CANNON: Yes, it's under the work
` product of the expert and his mental
` impressions in making decisions outside of
` the scope of the actual declaration and his
` opinions.
`BY MR. STEPHENS:
` Q. Dr. King, do you recall what the other
`textbooks were that you reviewed that are not cited
`in your declaration?
` A. I do not recall. In fact, in one
`case, I do recall one. There was a heat transfer
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`textbook that was a different edition of the heat
`transfer textbook that I do cite. So it was just a
`different edition from a different year, but
`substantially the same content.
` Q. In forming your opinions in this
`proceeding, did you rely on any assumptions that are
`not identified in your declaration?
` A. No.
` Q. Have any of your opinions changed
`since the time that you signed your declaration
`regarding the '127 patent?
` A. My opinions have not changed since the
`time that I signed the declaration.
` Q. And are you aware of any errors that
`exist in your declaration?
` A. I am not aware of any errors that
`exist.
` Q. Are you aware of any typos that might
`exist in your declaration?
` A. I'm not aware of any typos.
` Q. In your career, approximately how many
`times have you been retained as an expert in
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`litigation matters?
` A. Approximately three times.
` Q. Including this proceeding?
` A. Including this proceeding.
` Q. And in the prior two instances, were
`they patent cases as well?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Were they in the context of an IPR or
`a different proceeding -- type of proceeding?
` A. Different type of proceeding.
` Q. Would that be a district court
`litigation?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Do you recall how many times you have
`been deposed as an expert in litigation matters?
` A. Including today, one.
` Q. Okay. Well, welcome.
` A. Thank you.
` Q. Before -- strike that.
` In Table -- in paragraph 3 of your
`declaration, you indicate that you had reviewed
`Exhibit 1003, which is the declaration of Brian
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`Anthony; correct?
` A. Yes.
` Q. And before reviewing Dr. Anthony's
`declaration, were you aware of Dr. Anthony?
` A. No, I was not.
` Q. You had never worked with or against
`Dr. Anthony?
` A. No.
` Q. Is your compensation for your work on
`this case in any way contingent on any other factor
`other than the number of hours that you work on the
`case?
` A. No, it's not.
` Q. Is your compensation dependent on the
`outcome of this case or the substance of your
`opinions?
` A. No, it's not.
` Q. Has a court ever precluded you from
`offering an opinion in a litigation matter?
` A. No.
` Q. Have any of your opinions previously
`been criticized by a court?
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` A. No.
` Q. I'd like to turn to paragraph 4 of
`your declaration.
` In paragraph 4, you indicate that you
`are currently the Professor and Andersen Chair in
`the Department of Mechanical Science and Engineering
`at the University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign.
` Is that still correct?
` A. Yes.
` Q. And you hold academic appointments in
`the Departments of Electrical and Computer
`Engineering and Materials Science and Engineering,
`as well as the Department of Biomedical and
`Translational Biosciences in the Carle Illinois
`College of Medicine.
` Is that still correct?
` A. Yes, that's correct.
` Q. And can you tell me a little bit about
`the mission of the Department of Biomedical and
`Translational Biosciences?
` A. I can. So --
` Q. Go ahead. Thank you.
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` A. The Carle Illinois College of Medicine
`describes itself as the first engineering-based
`College of Medicine in the United States. So it's a
`partnership between Carle Hospital and the College
`of Engineering at University of Illinois
`Urbana-Champaign.
` The Department of Biomedical and
`Translational Biosciences is one of, I believe, two
`departments in the Carle Illinois College of
`Medicine. And the Department of Biomedical and
`Translational Biosciences really focuses on the
`technology aspects of medicine, so technology
`referring to tools and methods that apply science
`for advancing the field of medicine.
` Q. And what is your role in the
`Department of Biomedical and Translational
`Biosciences?
` A. I hold an affiliate appointment in
`that department, as I do in the Departments of
`Electrical and Computer Engineering and the
`Department of Material Sciences and Engineering. So
`an affiliate appointment has some responsibilities
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`and privileges that are different from the regular
`faculty appointment that I hold in the Department of
`Mechanical Science and Engineering.
` So as an affiliate professor of
`biomedical and translational biosciences, I'm
`invited to participate in events and activities of
`the department. I may advise students or teach
`courses, serve on committees and otherwise help
`govern the department in an affiliate manner where I
`would be invited to do those things on a part-time
`basis rather than kind of my full-time
`responsibilities in mechanical engineering.
` Q. Outside of this proceeding, do you
`have experience with photoplethysmography, PPG,
`devices, such as pulse oximeters?
` A. No, I do not.
` Q. And outside of this proceeding, do you
`have experience designing, researching, or building
`heat sinks for electronic devices?
` A. Yes, I do.
` Q. Can you describe some of that
`experience?
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` A. I've been working on thermal
`management and heat sinks for more than 20 years.
`Currently, I have projects going on in my research
`group at the university associated with thermal
`management, removing heat, designing heat sinks
`related to power electronic devices, systems that
`are designed for electrification such as fast
`charging of electric vehicles, for example.
` That work involves both experiments
`and simulations, material selection, design,
`testing, a host of engineering matters. So I'm
`currently advising four or five students at least
`that are actively working on projects in this area.
`I would say over the last 20 years, I've advised
`more than a dozen students and projects in this
`topic area.
` Q. So you do not have experience with
`thermal management in PPG devices before this
`proceeding; is that correct?
` A. I do not have experience in pulse
`oximetry devices before this proceeding.
` Q. And pulse oximetry devices, would that
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`more broadly encompass optical probes for PPG
`devices more generally, or is it specifically pulse
`oximetry for detection of oxygen saturation?
` A. I do have experience with optical
`probes, using optical probes to measure physical
`parameters, measure thermal and electrical
`parameters. I have experience in designing thermal
`systems that are used for thermal management related
`to optical systems and optical measurements.
` Q. In paragraph 6 of your declaration,
`you indicate that you have more than 20 years
`experience teaching university-level courses in heat
`transfer, thermal dynamics, and product design;
`correct?
` A. Correct.
` Q. So in these decades of experience,
`have you ever been made aware of a device that
`estimated the temperature of electronic components
`based on a signal from a temperature sensor
`thermally coupled to a heat sink?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Is that a common practice in your
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`experience?
` A. It is common to attach temperature
`sensors to heat sinks, yes.
` Q. And is it common to estimate the
`temperature of other electronic components thermally
`coupled to the heat sink?
` A. It is common to use temperature
`measurements within an electronic system combined
`with other information to estimate the operating
`temperature of electronic components.
` Q. And what are some reasons that an
`engineer might be interested in estimating the
`operating temperature of electronic components?
` A. Electronic components that operate at
`a temperature that is -- that operate at a high
`temperature, they can have shortened lifetimes.
`They can fail early. They may lose their accuracy
`or their ability to function correctly in some
`cases.
` Q. When you say that the electronic
`components may lose accuracy, would that include
`LEDs in your experience?
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` A. When I said that the electronics --
`electronic components may lose accuracy, I was
`thinking of sensors that would measure some physical
`parameter and report the physical parameter through
`an electronic signal, like a voltage or a
`resistance. And so the measurement of the physical
`parameter, the accuracy of that measurement may be
`affected by the operating temperature of the device.
`An LED is not a sensor.
` Q. Do you have experience estimating the
`operating temperatures of LEDs in an electronic
`device?
` A. Yes, I do.
` Q. Can you describe some of that
`experience?
` A. So I worked on projects where there
`were LEDs and other heat generating devices that
`were mounted on circuit boards, and the temperature
`of the LEDs would be measured using different
`methods, for example, infrared thermometry, for
`example.
` Q. Are you aware of any other methods for
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`estimating LED operating temperatures?
` A. I am aware, yes, of other methods for
`estimating LED operating temperatures.
` Q. Are you aware of any prior approaches
`for estimating the operating temperatures of a group
`of LEDs using a single temperature sensor?
` A. I am not, no.
` Q. Have you -- are you aware of any
`approaches for estimating LED operating temperatures
`by measuring a temperature of a heat sink thermally
`coupled to the LED?
` A. I am not aware, no.
` Q. Did you search for any prior art that
`might disclose that concept as you prepared your
`declaration?
` A. One of the references that I provide
`in my declaration, I believe it's Design of Heat
`Sinks [sic] by Kraus, I reviewed that textbook. And
`in my review of the textbook, I did not find LEDs
`mounted on a heat sink and a temperature sensor
`measuring the LED temperature
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