10/18/2023
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`Apple, Inc. v. Masimo Corp.
`Confidential
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`James Duckworth, Ph.D.
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`Page 1
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`UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`_____________________
`APPLE INC.,
` )
` Petitioner,
` ) Case IPR2022-01291
` ) Case IPR2022-01465
`v.
`MASIMO CORPORATION, )
` Patent Owner. ) U.S. Patent 10,687,745
`_____________________)
`
` *** CONFIDENTIAL TRANSCRIPT ***
`
` REMOTE DEPOSITION OF
` JAMES DUCKWORTH, PH.D.
` Zoom Recorded Videoconference
` 10/18/2023
` 10:06 a.m. (EDT)
`
` REPORTED BY: AMANDA GORRONO, CLR
` CLR NO. 052005-01
`________________________________________________
` DIGITAL EVIDENCE GROUP
` 1730 M Street, NW, Suite 812
` Washington, D.C. 20036
`(202) 232-0646
`
`www.DigitalEvidenceGroup.com Digital Evidence Gorup C'rt 2023
`
`202-232-0646
`
`APPLE 1081
`Apple v. Masimo
`IPR2022-01291
`
`1
`
`
`
`Apple, Inc. v. Masimo Corp.
`Confidential
`
`James Duckworth, Ph.D.
`
`Page 1
`
`UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`_____________________
`APPLE INC.,
` )
` Petitioner,
` ) Case IPR2022-01291
` ) Case IPR2022-01465
`v.
`MASIMO CORPORATION, )
` Patent Owner. ) U.S. Patent 10,687,745
`_____________________)
`
` *** CONFIDENTIAL TRANSCRIPT ***
`
` REMOTE DEPOSITION OF
` JAMES DUCKWORTH, PH.D.
` Zoom Recorded Videoconference
` 10/18/2023
` 10:06 a.m. (EDT)
`
` REPORTED BY: AMANDA GORRONO, CLR
` CLR NO. 052005-01
`________________________________________________
` DIGITAL EVIDENCE GROUP
` 1730 M Street, NW, Suite 812
` Washington, D.C. 20036
`(202) 232-0646
`
`www.DigitalEvidenceGroup.com Digital Evidence Gorup C'rt 2023
`
`202-232-0646
`
`APPLE 1081
`Apple v. Masimo
`IPR2022-01291
`
`1
`
`
`
`10/18/2023
`
`Apple, Inc. v. Masimo Corp.
`Confidential
`
`James Duckworth, Ph.D.
`
`Page 2
`
` 10/18/2023
`
` 10:06 a.m. (EDT)
`
` REMOTE DEPOSITION OF JAMES DUCKWORTH Ph.D.,
`held virtually via Zoom Videoconferencing, before
`Amanda Gorrono, Certified Live Note Reporter, and
`Notary Public of the State of New York.
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`Apple, Inc. v. Masimo Corp.
`Confidential
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`James Duckworth, Ph.D.
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`A P P E A R A N C E S
`(Via Zoom Videoconferencing):
`ON BEHALF OF THE PETITIONER APPLE INC.:
` Nicholas W. Stephens, Esquire
` Fish & Richardson P.C.
` 60 South 6th Street - Suite 3200
` Minneapolis, MN 55402
` PHONE: 612-766-2018
` E-MAIL: Nstephens@fr.com
` - AND -
` Kim Leung, Esquire
` Fish & Richardson P.C.
` 12860 El Camino Real - Suite 400
` San Diego, CA 92130
` PHONE: 858-678-4713
` E-MAIL: Leung@fr.com
`
`ON BEHALF OF PATENT OWNER MASIMO CORPORATION:
` Daniel Kiang, Esquire
` Knobbe Martens
` 2040 Main Street
` Irvine, CA 92614
` PHONE: 949-760-0404
` E-MAIL: Daniel.kiang@knobbe.com
` - AND -
` Jeremiah S. Helm, Ph.D., Esquire
` Knobbe Martens
` 2040 Main Street
` Irvine, CA 92614
` PHONE: 949-760-0404
` E-MAIL: Jeremiah.helm@knobbe.com
`
`ALSO PRESENT:
`Billy Fahnert, Trial Tech - Digital Evidence
`Group
`
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`Apple, Inc. v. Masimo Corp.
`Confidential
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`James Duckworth, Ph.D.
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`Page 4
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` I N D E X
` WITNESS EXAMINATION BY PAGE
` JAMES DUCKWORTH Ph.D. MR. STEPHENS 6
` E X H I B I T S
`EXHIBIT DESCRIPTION PAGE
`Exhibit 1001 US Patent No. 10,687,745.............. 10
`
`Exhibit 1004 US Patent No. 8,670,819............... 11
`Exhibit 1005 US Patent No. 9,392,946............... 11
`Exhibit 1007 US Patent No. 6,483,976............... 11
`Exhibit 1050 "A Neo-Reflective Wrist Pulse 81
` Oximeter".............................
`Exhibit 1051 "A Wireless Reflectance Pulse 78
` Oximeter With Digital Baseline
` Control for Unfiltered
` Photoplethysmograms"..................
`Exhibit 1053 "Implementation of a Wireless Pulse 69
` Oximeter Based on Wrist Band Sensor"..
`Exhibit 1055 "Optimum Place for Measuring Pulse 63
` Oximeter Signal Wireless Sensor-Belt
` or Wrist-Band"........................
`Exhibit 2100 Dr. James Duckworth Declaration....... 10
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`Apple, Inc. v. Masimo Corp.
`Confidential
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` R E Q U E S T S
` DESCRIPTION PAGE
` Scan or photocopy of drawing on in Paragraph 29....... 59
` Mark the Transcript as Confidential................... 96
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`Confidential
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`James Duckworth, Ph.D.
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` JAMES DUCKWORTH Ph.D., called as a witness,
` having been first duly sworn by a Notary Public
` of the State of New York, was examined and
` testified as follows:
` THE WITNESS: Yes, I do.
` THE COURT REPORTER: Thank you. I
` have all of your appearances.
` EXAMINATION
` BY MR. STEPHENS:
` Q. Welcome, Dr. Duckworth.
` A. Thank you.
` Q. My name is Nick Stephens. I am an
` attorney with Fish & Richardson and I'll be
` taking the deposition today on behalf of
` petitioner, Apple Inc.
` Do you understand?
` A. Yes.
` MR. STEPHENS: Would counsel like to
` make their appearance for the record?
` MR. KIANG: Sure. This is Daniel
` Kiang from Knobbe Martens representing the
` Patent Owner, Masimo Corporation. I see with
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`Page 7
` me today is Jeremiah Helm also from Knobbe
` Martens.
` MR. STEPHENS: Thank you. And with
` me today, I also have my colleague, Kim
` Leung, from Fish & Richardson, again, on
` behalf of Apple.
` BY MR. STEPHENS:
` Q. We're here today regarding IPR
` proceedings, IPR2022-01291 and IPR2022-01465.
` Do you understand?
` A. Yes.
` Q. And these proceedings pertain to US
` Patent 10,687,745.
` Do you understand?
` A. Yes, I do.
` Q. And this deposition is being
` transcribed today.
` Do you understand that?
` A. Yes, I do.
` Q. To ensure a clean record, I'll aim
` not to interrupt you while you're answering
` questions. And I'll ask you if you give a pause
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`Page 8
` and allow me to finish my questions before you
` begin answering.
` Does that sound okay?
` A. That's good.
` Q. If you need a break at any time
` during the deposition, please let me know. In
` general, we aim to break every hour or so.
` Does that sound okay?
` A. Yes, that's good.
` Q. All right. And before we got
` started, you noted that you had received a FedEx
` package with a binder --
` A. Yes.
` Q. -- containing records in this
` proceedings.
` A. Yes, I have.
` Q. And that was the first time that
` you've accessed that binder just right before we
` began, correct?
` A. That's correct.
` Q. Do you have any other documents with
` you?
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`Confidential
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`James Duckworth, Ph.D.
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`Page 9
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` A. No. I -- no, I do not.
` Q. And are you in communication with
` anyone except through this videoconference?
` A. No, I am not.
` Q. You understand that you're under
` oath for this deposition?
` A. Yes, I do.
` Q. Is there any reason that you cannot
` give truthful and accurate testimony today?
` A. Nope.
` Q. And just to ensure clarity for the
` record, I'd like to define several terms that
` I'll use throughout the deposition.
` When I use the terms "Patent Owner"
` or "Masimo" I'm referring to Masimo Corporation.
` Do you understand?
` A. Yes, I do.
` Q. And when I use the term "Petitioner"
` or "Apple" I'm referring to Apple Inc.
` Do you understand?
` A. Yes, I do.
` Q. When I use the term "'745 patent"
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` I'm referring to Patent 10,687,745, which was
` marked as Exhibit 1001 in this proceeding.
` Do you understand?
` (Whereupon, Exhibit 1001, US Patent
` No. 10,687,745, was identified.)
` A. Yes, I do.
` Q. And when I use the acronym "POSITA,"
` I'm referring to a person of ordinary skill in
` the art at the time of the alleged invention.
` Do you understand?
` A. Yes, I do.
` Q. And I may refer to a number of
` exhibits over the course of the deposition. I'd
` like to index just a few of them.
` When I refer to "your declaration,"
` or "the declaration," I'm referring to
` Exhibit 2100, unless I indicate otherwise.
` Do you understand?
` (Whereupon, Exhibit 2100, Dr. James
` Duckworth Declaration, was identified.)
` A. Yes, I do.
` Q. When I refer to "Iwamiya" I'm
`
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`Page 11
` referring to Exhibit 1004 in this proceeding.
` Do you understand?
` (Whereupon, Exhibit 1004, US Patent
` No. 8,670,819, was identified.)
` A. Just checking. Yes, I do.
` Q. Okay. When I refer to "Sarantos"
` I'm referring to Exhibit 1005 in this proceeding.
` Do you understand?
` (Whereupon, Exhibit 1005, US Patent
` No. 9,392,946, was identified.)
` A. Yes, I do.
` Q. When I refer to "Shie" I'm referring
` to Exhibit 1007 in this proceeding.
` Do you understand?
` (Whereupon, Exhibit 1007, US Patent
` No. 6,483,976, was identified.)
` A. Yes, I do.
` MR. KIANG: And for the court
` reporter -- I guess just for the court
` reporter -- Shie is spelled S-H-I-E.
` MR. STEPHENS: Thank you.
` BY MR. STEPHENS:
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`Page 12
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` Q. Dr. Duckworth, can you please
` describe how you prepared for today's deposition?
` A. I reviewed my declaration and the
` associated exhibits.
` Q. Approximately how much time did you
` spend preparing for the deposition today?
` A. Maybe 30 or so hours.
` Q. What documents did you review in
` preparation for the deposition?
` A. I thought you just asked me that
` question. My declaration and the associated
` exhibits.
` Q. Are there any documents that are not
` identified in your declaration, that you reviewed
` in preparation for the deposition?
` A. Nope.
` Q. Are you aware of any errors in your
` declaration?
` A. Nope.
` Q. And did you personally write your
` declaration?
` A. I wrote my declaration with
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` assistance of counsel. All of the opinions in my
` declaration, they are my own.
` Q. If at any point today I ask a
` question that's unclear, please let me know.
` If -- if -- and I'm sorry.
` And if you -- please do answer my
` questions, unless otherwise instructed by
` Counsel.
` Do you understand?
` A. Yes, I do.
` Q. All right. So I'd like to turn to
` Page 11 of your declaration, again Exhibit 2100.
` BY MR. STEPHENS:
` Q. And at the top of Page 11 you
` provide an annotated version of Figure 3 from
` Iwamiya, correct?
` A. We're on Page 11 looking at
` Figure 3. Is that what you're referring to?
` Q. Yes.
` A. Yes. On the previous page it says
` the annotated diagrams below are from my original
` declaration. Yes.
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` Q. And the second figure on Page 11 is
` also from Iwamiya, Figure 13, correct?
` A. That's correct.
` Q. Take a look at Figure 3. It appears
` that you've labeled four components of Iwamiya's
` device in Figure 3, correct?
` A. I have labeled light emitting unit,
` two of those; the light receiving unit; the
` optical filter; and the light shielding frame.
` Q. Iwamiya explains that the light
` emitting units 6 emit light within a light guide
` unit 7, correct?
` A. Let me refer to Iwamiya. You're
` asking me about Item 7?
` Iwamiya describes that as the light
` cage unit 7 comprising a light guiding ring
` portion 11 and a diffusion/irradiation ring
` portion 12.
` BY MR. STEPHENS:
` Q. And were you reading from a specific
` portion of Iwamiya?
` A. Yes. Column 6, roundabout Line 40.
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` Q. Do you have an understanding of the
` function of light guide unit 7?
` MR. KIANG: Objection to form.
` A. Iwamiya describes this, for example,
` in Column 7. It describes the -- for example, as
` illustrated in Figures 3 and 4, the
` diffusion/irradiation ring portion 12 formed in
` almost a ring shape, using clouded or milky resin
` with a light diffusing property.
` Next paragraph:
` Diffusion/irradiation ring portion 12 is
` configured to take the observation light
` discharged from the emission surface 11e of the
` inclined ring portion 11b of the light guiding
` ring portion 11 and the inner portion of the
` instant surface 12c of the inclined ring portion
` 12a.
` And then annularly guide the taken
` observation light while diffusing the observation
` light by the inclined ring portion 12a and then
` diffuse and discharged the observation light from
` the emission surface 12d of the bottom surface
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` and flat ring portion 12b an then uniformly
` diffuse and irradiate the observation light of a
` wide area of a ring shape with respect to the
` skin H.
` Q. Is it your understanding that light
` guide unit has an annular shape?
` MR. KIANG: Objection to the form.
` A. It says the light guiding -- Iwamiya
` says the light guiding ring portion 11 is formed
` in almost a ring shape.
` BY MR. STEPHENS:
` Q. Would the ring shape of light guide
` unit 7 help to spread light from the light
` emitting unit 7 to the tissue measurement site?
` A. My previous answer described what I
` understand that Iwamiya is describing by the
` light guide unit.
` Q. So is your answer that, yes, the
` light guide unit helps to distribute light from
` the light emitting unit 7 to the tissue
` measurement site?
` A. No, that's not what I said. I
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` described what -- how Iwamiya was describing the
` light guide unit 7.
` MR. KIANG: I'll also object to
` form.
` BY MR. STEPHENS:
` Q. So you're unable to tell me, apart
` from reading Iwamiya, whether light guide unit 7
` helps to distribute light from the light emitting
` unit 7 to the tissue measurement site?
` A. That's not something I performed --
` I provided an opinion on in my declaration.
` Q. Do you have an understanding of
` Iwamiya's device?
` MR. KIANG: Objection to form.
` A. That's not something I provide an
` opinion on in my declaration.
` BY MR. STEPHENS:
` Q. You don't have an opinion as -- as
` to whether you have an understanding of Iwamiya's
` device?
` MR. KIANG: Objection to form.
` A. I just answered that question. I
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`Page 18
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` did not provide an opinion on that in my
` declaration.
` BY MR. STEPHENS:
` Q. Were your opinions in your
` declaration based on an understanding of
` Iwamiya's device?
` MR. KIANG: Objection to form.
` A. I did not provide an opinion on that
` in my declaration.
` BY MR. STEPHENS:
` Q. Let's move on then. Iwamiya
` discloses at Column 7, Lines 14 to 24 that
` observation light emitted by light emitting unit
` 6 is uniformly diffused and irradiated over a
` wide area of a ring shape with respect to the
` skin H.
` Is that correct?
` A. I believe that's what I just
` described in answer to your previous question.
` Q. What does it mean for light to
` scatter in the patient's tissue?
` A. Are you referring to somewhere in my
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` declaration now?
` Q. I'm asking: What does it refer to
` for light to scatter in the patient's tissue?
` A. I provide an opinion on that in my
` declaration?
` Q. For example, in Paragraph 17, you
` state that Iwamiya's light shielding frame also
` allows scattered light from the measurement site
` to be redirected towards the optical filter and
` eventually to the light receiving unit.
` A. I'm sorry. Let me just catch up
` with your -- look at my declaration now you say?
` Q. Paragraph 17 of your declaration.
` A. Okay. Just one second, please. So,
` yeah, I'm on -- I'm on Page 17 -- Paragraph 17.
` Can you please repeat the question then?
` Q. I'm referring to the second sentence
` in Paragraph 17 where you indicate that Iwamiya's
` light shielding frame "also allows scattered
` light from the measurement site to be redirected
` towards the optical filter and eventually to the
` light receiving unit."
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`10/18/2023
`
`Apple, Inc. v. Masimo Corp.
`Confidential
`
`James Duckworth, Ph.D.
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`Page 20
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` Do you see that?
` A. Yes, I see that.
` Q. And you use the term "scattered
` light."
` Do you see that?
` A. Yes, I do.
` Q. What did you mean when you referred
` to scattered light?
` A. That's the scattered light as
` described by Iwamiya from the scattered light
` taking unit.
` Q. And what would a POSITA understand
` scattered light to be in this context?
` A. Just what I've said there. It
` allows scattered light from the measurement site
` to be redirected towards the optical filter and
` eventually to the light receiving unit.
` Q. Do you think that the board might be
` interested in what "scattered light" means to
` understand the opinions in your declaration?
` A. Iwamiya describes the scattered
` light taking unit, and that's what scattered
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`Apple, Inc. v. Masimo Corp.
`Confidential
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`James Duckworth, Ph.D.
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`Page 21
` light is. It's scattered light. It's -- that's
` what a POSITA would understand. Scattered light
` is scattered light.
` Q. Would a POSITA understand that a
` portion of the scattered observation light is
` received by scattered light taking unit 8 in
` Iwamiya?
` A. Can you ask the question again,
` please?
` Q. Would a portion -- sorry.
` Would a POSITA understand that a
` portion of the scattered observation light in
` Iwamiya is received by scattered light unit 8?
` A. I'm just referring to Iwamiya for
` his description. Can you ask the question one
` more time? I am a little bit confused about what
` you're exactly asking.
` Q. Would you agree that there's
` scattered observation light in the patient's
` tissue when Iwamiya's device is operated?
` MR. KIANG: Objection to form.
` A. I'm still confused, Counsel. That
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`Apple, Inc. v. Masimo Corp.
`Confidential
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`James Duckworth, Ph.D.
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`Page 22
` sounded like a different question to the previous
` one. So can you ask -- ask again?
` BY MR. STEPHENS:
` Q. Yeah.
` I'm just trying to understand. Is
` there any -- is there any scattered light from
` the patient's tissue that is transmitted through
` scattered light taking unit 8?
` A. Yeah, the scattered light in Iwamiya
` is described as taking the scattered light of the
` observation light irradiated -- irradiated onto
` the skin.
` Q. Is all of the observation light
` that's irradiated on the skin reflected toward
` the scattered light taking unit 8?
` A. That's not something I've provided
` an opinion on in my declaration.
` Q. Well, I'm asking you about your
` understanding of Iwamiya.
` Was -- is it your understanding that
` all of the scattered light irradiated on the
` tissue would be reflected to the scattered light
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`10/18/2023
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`Apple, Inc. v. Masimo Corp.
`Confidential
`
`James Duckworth, Ph.D.
`
`Page 23
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` taking unit 8?
` A. That's not something I've provided
` an opinion on in my declaration. And I would
` need more time to analyze that.
` Q. Please take your time.
` A. That's not something I'm prepared to
` try and analyze on the fly.
` Q. How much time do you expect you
` would need to discern whether all or less than
` all of the scattered light is received by the
` light taking unit 8?
` MR. KIANG: Objection to form.
` A. Maybe, I don't know, a day or so to
` look at all the information.
` BY MR. STEPHENS:
` Q. Doctor, did you review Iwamiya in
` preparation for this deposition?
` A. Yes, I did.
` Q. Are you prepared to offer any --
` MR. STEPHENS: Strike that.
` BY MR. STEPHENS:
` Q. What happens to scattered light that
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`Apple, Inc. v. Masimo Corp.
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`James Duckworth, Ph.D.
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`Page 24
` is not reflected towards the scattered light unit
` 8?
` A. That --
` MR. KIANG: Objection to form.
` THE WITNESS: I'm sorry. I
` interrupted you.
` MR. KIANG: Go ahead, Doctor. I
` have my objection.
` A. Okay. That is not something I
` provide an opinion on in my declaration.
` BY MR. STEPHENS:
` Q. Is it possible that some of the
` scattered observation light reflects back to the
` same area where the light entered the patient's
` tissue, for example, the location of the
` diffusion irradiation ring portion 12?
` A. I'm sorry. What are you looking at
` now? What figure?
` Q. We can reference on Page 11 of your
` declaration, Figure 3.
` A. So please ask the question again,
` Counselor.
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`Apple, Inc. v. Masimo Corp.
`Confidential
`
`James Duckworth, Ph.D.
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`Page 25
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` Q. Is it possible that some of the
` scattered observation light reflects back to the
` same area where the light enters the patient's
` tissue?
` MR. KIANG: Objection to form.
` A. That's not something I provided an
` opinion on in my declaration.
` BY MR. STEPHENS:
` Q. Was it necessary for you to
` understand the operation of Iwamiya's device to
` form opinions in your declaration?
` A. I -- to provide the opinions I did
` need to understand various operations of Iwamiya,
` yes.
` Q. Did you need to understand the path
` that observation light would take from the light
` guide unit 7 to the light receiving unit 9 for
` the opinions in your declaration?
` A. That is partly what I described in
` your previous question, when I described the
` function of the light cage unit, how it described
` the light passing through the light guiding ring
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`Apple, Inc. v. Masimo Corp.
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`James Duckworth, Ph.D.
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`Page 26
` portion 11, and then the -- the diffusion ring
` portion 12. And then later on -- I can find this
` if you like -- the description then is the light
` passes through the scattered light taking unit
` and eventually to the photodetector.
` Q. What is the function of Iwamiya's
` light taking unit 8?
` MR. KIANG: Objection to form.
` A. In Column 8, Iwamiya describes "the
` light receiving unit 9 receives the scattered
` light of the observation light that is taken by
` the scattered light taking unit 8."
` Q. And at Column 7, Line 53 of Iwamiya,
` Iwamiya explains that the scattered light taking
` unit 8 is formed of a material, such as
` transparent glass or a transparent resin with a
` high refractive index, correct?
` A. That's what I see that Iwamiya says,
` yes.
` Q. And then the next few lines Column
` 7, Line 55 explains that the scattered light
` taking unit 8 is formed in a shape of a concave
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`Apple, Inc. v. Masimo Corp.
`Confidential
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`James Duckworth, Ph.D.
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`Page 27
` lens to increase light reception sensitivity of
` an outer circumferential portion of the scattered
` light taking unit 8 of the light receiving unit 9
` disposed on the opposite side opposite to the
` skin H, with respect to the scattered light.
` MR. KIANG: Objection; misstated the
` exhibit.
` BY MR. STEPHENS:
` Q. I'll read that again.
` The scattered light taking unit 8 is
` formed in the shape of a concave lens to increase
` light reception sensitivity of an outer
` circumferential portion of the scattered light
` taking unit 8 of the light receiving unit 9
` disposed on the side opposite to the skin H.
` Did I read that portion correctly?
` A. I believe that's what it says, yes.
` Q. So the concave lens of light taking
` unit 8 is formed of a transparent glass or
` transparent resin with a high refractive index,
` correct?
` A. I believe you're just reading what
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`Apple, Inc. v. Masimo Corp.
`Confidential
`
`James Duckworth, Ph.D.
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`Page 28
` Iwamiya said, which is the scattered light taking
` 8 is formed of a material such as transparent
` glass or transparent resin with a high refractive
` index.
` Q. Would a POSITA understand that a
` transparent material allows light to pass through
` the material?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Why is the lens of light taking unit
` 8 formed of a transparent material?
` MR. KIANG: Objection; speculation.
` A. That's not something I've provided
` an opinion on in my declaration.
` BY MR. STEPHENS:
` Q. Did any of the opinions in your
` declaration --
` MR. STEPHENS: Strike that.
` BY MR. STEPHENS:
` Q. Did you need to understand the
` material of light taking unit 8 to form any of
` your opinions in your declaration?
` A. Can you ask the question again,
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`Apple, Inc. v. Masimo Corp.
`Confidential
`
`James Duckworth, Ph.D.
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`Page 29
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` please, Counselor?
` Q. Did you need to understand the
` material of light taking unit 8 in forming the --
` any of the opinions in your declaration?
` A. I formed my opinions from the
` description of Iwamiya.
` Q. And did you account for the
` transparent material of light taking unit 8 in
` forming your opinions?
` A. I read that Iwamiya says the
` scattered light taking unit is formed of material
` such as transparent glass or transparent resin
` with a high refractive index.
` Q. The transparent material of light
` taking unit 8 would allow light incident on its
` bottom surface that's adjacent to the skin to
` pass through to the cavity on the top surface of
` the light taking unit 8, correct?
` A. Well, I prefer to read what -- how
` Iwamiya describes that in Column 8: Meanwhile,
` the light receiving unit 9 receives the scattered
` light of observation light that is taken by the
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`10/18/2023
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`Apple, Inc. v. Masimo Corp.
`Confidential
`
`James Duckworth, Ph.D.
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`Page 30
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` scattered light taking unit 8.
` Q. And on Page 14 of your declaration
` you provided another annotated --
` A. Just one second, please. Page 14?
` Q. Yes.
` A. Yes. Yes. Uh-huh.
` Q. And this is an annotated version of
` Figure 4 from Iwamiya; is that correct?
` A. That's how I describe it, yes.
` Figure 4 annotated below.
` Q. And what is the area that you shaded
` yellow?
` A. I describe that on Page 14. The top
` of Page 14. In Iwamiya the light receiving unit
` (photodetector) 9 is recessed inside a cavity
` (highlighted yellow below).
` Q. So the area you shaded yellow is a
` cavity?
` A. That's how I describe it.
` Q. If the surfaces and the cavity were
` formed from reflective material, would light in
` the cavity pass through light taking unit 8 to
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`Apple, Inc. v. Masimo Corp.
`Confidential
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`James Duckworth, Ph.D.
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` the skin?
` MR. KIANG: Objection to form.
` A. That's not something I've provided
` an opinion on in my declaration.
` BY MR. STEPHENS:
` Q. You have no opinion as to whether if
` the cavity were formed from reflective material,
` light from the cavity would pass through light
` taking unit 8 back to the skin?
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