·1· · · · · UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
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`·2· · · · · ·BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
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`·3· ·________________________________________________________
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`·4· · · · · · · · SAMSUNG ELECTRONICS CO., LTD.,
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`· · · · · · · · · · · · · ·Petitioner,
`·6
`· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · v.
`·7
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`·8· · · · · · · ·SMART MOBILE TECHNOLOGIES, LLC,
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`·9· · · · · · · · · · · · Patent Owner.
`· · ·________________________________________________________
`10
`· · · · · Case IPR2022-01249 (US Patent No. 9,019,946)
`11· ·________________________________________________________
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`12· · · · · · · · VIDEOCONFERENCE DEPOSITION OF
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`13· · · · · · · · · · DR. TODOR V. COOKLEV
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`14
`· · · · · · · · · · · · · JULY 24, 2023
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`· · · · · · · Page 1 - 125· · · · 10:00 a.m. - 5:59 p.m.
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`18· ·REPORTED BY:
`· · ·Tamara L. Houston
`19· ·CA CSR No. 7244, RPR, CCRR No. 140
`· · ·Job Number 23-126780
`20· ·FR Ref. 39843-0126IP1
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`Exhibit 1053
`Samsung v. Smart Mobile
`IPR2022-01249
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`1
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`·2· · · · · ·BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
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`·3· ·________________________________________________________
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`·4· · · · · · · · SAMSUNG ELECTRONICS CO., LTD.,
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`·5
`· · · · · · · · · · · · · ·Petitioner,
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`· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · v.
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`·8· · · · · · · ·SMART MOBILE TECHNOLOGIES, LLC,
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`·9· · · · · · · · · · · · Patent Owner.
`· · ·________________________________________________________
`10
`· · · · · Case IPR2022-01249 (US Patent No. 9,019,946)
`11· ·________________________________________________________
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`12· · · · · · · · VIDEOCONFERENCE DEPOSITION OF
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`13· · · · · · · · · · DR. TODOR V. COOKLEV
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`14
`· · · · · · · · · · · · · JULY 24, 2023
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`· · · · · · · Page 1 - 125· · · · 10:00 a.m. - 5:59 p.m.
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`18· ·REPORTED BY:
`· · ·Tamara L. Houston
`19· ·CA CSR No. 7244, RPR, CCRR No. 140
`· · ·Job Number 23-126780
`20· ·FR Ref. 39843-0126IP1
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`Exhibit 1053
`Samsung v. Smart Mobile
`IPR2022-01249
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`1
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`·3· · · · · · ·REMOTE VIDEOCONFERENCE DEPOSITION OF:
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`·4· ·DR. TODOR V. COOKLEV, taken on behalf of the Petitioner,
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`·5· ·commencing from 10:00 a.m. to 5:59 p.m., Monday, July
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`·6· ·24, 2023, before Tamara L. Houston, CSR No. 7244, CCRR,
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`·7· ·RPR.
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`·1· ·APPEARANCE OF COUNSEL:
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`·2
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`·3· · · · On behalf of the Petitioner:
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`·4· · · · · · ·FISH & RICHARDSON, P.C.
`· · · · · · · ·BY:· CHRISTOPHER GREEN, ESQ.
`·5· · · · · · · · · SANGKI PARK, ESQ.
`· · · · · · · ·1180 Peachtree Street, NE, 21st Floor
`·6· · · · · · ·Atlanta, Georgia 30309
`· · · · · · · ·cgreen@fr.com
`·7· · · · · · ·spark@fr.com
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`·8
`· · · · · On behalf of the Patent Owner and Witness:
`·9
`· · · · · · · ·GRAVES & SHAW LLP
`10· · · · · · ·BY:· PHILIP GRAVES, ESQ.
`· · · · · · · ·355 S. Grand Avenue
`11· · · · · · ·Suite 2450
`· · · · · · · ·Los Angeles, California 90071
`12· · · · · · ·(213) 204-5101
`· · · · · · · ·pgraves@gravesshaw.com
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`·1· · · · · · · · · ·INDEX TO EXAMINATION
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`·2· · · · · · · · · · · · ·WITNESS:
`· · · · · · · · · DR. TODOR V. COOKLEV
`·3
`· · ·EXAMINATIONS· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · PAGE
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`· · ·Mr. Green........................................· · 6
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`· · · · · · · QUESTIONS INSTRUCTED NOT TO ANSWER
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`· · · · · · · · · · · · Page· · ·Line
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`· · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·NONE
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`·1· · · · · · · · · · ·INDEX TO EXHIBITS
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`·2· · · · · · · · · ·DR. TODOR V. COOKLEV
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`·3· · · · SAMSUNG vs. SMART MOBILE TECHNOLOGIES, LLC
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`·4· · · · · · · · · · · ·JULY 24, 2023
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`·5· · · Tamara L. Houston, CSR No. 7244, CRR No. 140, RPR
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`·6
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`·7· ·EXHIBIT· · · · · · · DESCRIPTION· · · · · · · · · ·PAGE
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`·8· ·Exhibit 6000· ·Diagram· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 11
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`·9· · · · · · · · · · · · · --o0o--
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`10· · · · · · ·(Exhibits marked electronically.)
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`·1· · · · · · ·MONDAY, JULY 24, 2023, 10:00 a.m.
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`·2· · · · · · · · · · · · · --o0o--
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`·3· · · · · · · ·All counsel present stipulate
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`·4· · · · · that the witness shall be sworn remotely
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`·5· · · · · · · · · ·by the court reporter
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`·6· · · · · · · · · · · · · * * *
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`·7· · · · · · · · · (Whereupon DR. TODOR V. COOKLEV, having
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`·8· · · · · · · · ·been called as a witness was sworn to
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`·9· · · · · · · · ·tell the truth, the whole truth,
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`10· · · · · · · · ·nothing but the truth.)
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`11· · · · · · · · · · · · · ·--o0o--
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`12· · · · · · · · ·EXAMINATION BY MR. GREEN:
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`13· · · · Q.· ·Dr. Cooklev, good morning.
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`14· · · · A.· ·Good morning, Counsel.
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`15· · · · Q.· ·Would you do me a quick favor and state
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`16· ·your full name for the record.
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`17· · · · A.· ·Todor Cooklev.
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`18· · · · Q.· ·All right.· And what is your address,
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`19· ·please?
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`20· · · · A.· ·1336 Sycamore Hills Parkway, Fort Wayne,
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`21· ·Indiana, 46814.
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`22· · · · Q.· ·And where are you physically situated today
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`23· ·for the deposition?
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`24· · · · A.· ·At the address that I just gave.
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`25· · · · Q.· ·All right.· Do you have anything available
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`6
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`·1· ·to you in the room where you are sitting other than
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`·2· ·the device that is connected to this virtual
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`·3· ·deposition session?
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`·4· · · · A.· ·I am in my office of -- there are some
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`·5· ·items, but then they're not related to the -- there
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`·6· ·are some items that you would find in an office, but
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`·7· ·they are not related to the materials of this IPR.
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`·8· · · · Q.· ·Great.· Do you have available to you any of
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`·9· ·the papers that have been filed as part of this
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`10· ·proceeding?
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`11· · · · A.· ·I do not.· As I said, I do not have with me
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`12· ·in the office right now.· I do not have any papers
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`13· ·that are related to the -- this IPR.
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`14· · · · Q.· ·Do you have open or do you have access to
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`15· ·any electronic copies of the materials that have
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`16· ·become part of this IPR, whether prior art
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`17· ·references, various declarations, so forth?
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`18· · · · A.· ·I'm using my computer.· And on my computer,
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`19· ·yes, I have access to these materials.· They are not
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`20· ·open at the moment.
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`21· · · · Q.· ·The materials you have access to on your
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`22· ·computer, are they annotated or notated in any way?
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`23· · · · A.· ·They are not.
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`24· · · · Q.· ·Thank you.· All right.· Dr. Cooklev, I know
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`25· ·you have been deposed a number of times, but for the
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`7
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`·1· ·sake of completeness, would you help me with a few
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`·2· ·things today.
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`·3· · · · · · ·The first being that I will do my best to
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`·4· ·wait until you answer a question before asking
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`·5· ·another, and I would ask in return that you please
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`·6· ·wait until my question is finished before beginning
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`·7· ·your answer.
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`·8· · · · A.· ·Yes.
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`·9· · · · Q.· ·That's a big one because it helps our
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`10· ·friend, the court reporter.
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`11· · · · · · ·The other is if you need a break today,
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`12· ·please just let me know.· I will, as our experiences
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`13· ·in the past, do my best to grant your request for the
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`14· ·break at the time that you ask for it.· The one
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`15· ·exception, of course, being if we have a question or
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`16· ·issue pending, then we may need to resolve that
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`17· ·before we all leave the virtual room.· But with that
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`18· ·understanding, is there any time that you know now
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`19· ·you may need a break during the course of our day?
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`20· · · · A.· ·Yes, I understand.
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`21· · · · Q.· ·Okay.· Is there any particular time today
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`22· ·when you need a break at a particular -- at a
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`23· ·particular point in time?
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`24· · · · A.· ·No.· There's no particular time that I need
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`25· ·to be on a break.
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`8
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`·1· · · · Q.· ·Okay.· And is there anything that would
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`·2· ·prevent you from sitting for the entirety of the
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`·3· ·deposition and being able to give complete and
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`·4· ·truthful answers in accordance with the oath that you
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`·5· ·took?
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`·6· · · · A.· ·I don't think so.
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`·7· · · · Q.· ·Very well.· Thank you very much.
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`·8· · · · · · ·Dr. Cooklev, are you familiar with the word
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`·9· ·"interleaving"?
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`10· · · · A.· ·I'm familiar with that word, yes.
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`11· · · · Q.· ·Are you familiar with the word "combining"?
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`12· · · · A.· ·Yes, I am.
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`13· · · · Q.· ·Do you understand the words "interleaving"
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`14· ·and "combining" to have different meanings?
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`15· · · · A.· ·Sometimes they could have different
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`16· ·meanings.
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`17· · · · Q.· ·So if sometimes interleaving and combining
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`18· ·could have different meanings, that would indicate
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`19· ·that at other times interleaving and combining could
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`20· ·have the same or similar meaning; is that correct?
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`21· · · · A.· ·That's generally correct.
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`22· · · · Q.· ·Okay.· All right.· In what instances do the
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`23· ·words "interleaving" and "combining" have the same or
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`24· ·similar meaning?
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`25· · · · A.· ·It seems to me that's a fairly general
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`9
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`·1· ·question and open-ended.· I need specific examples
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`·2· ·of -- to be able to analyze when the meaning is the
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`·3· ·same or similar and when it is not.
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`·4· · · · Q.· ·Dr. Cooklev, my question was in response to
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`·5· ·your testimony that at times the terms "interleaving"
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`·6· ·and "combining" can have the same meaning.· So I will
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`·7· ·reframe my question as follows:
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`·8· · · · · · ·Please provide an example of a situation
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`·9· ·where interleaving and combining have the same
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`10· ·meaning.
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`11· · · · A.· ·I think my earlier testimony that sometimes
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`12· ·they could have different meanings and at the same
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`13· ·time there may be instances when they have similar
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`14· ·meanings.· I think that's correct.· And I correctly
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`15· ·answered your question.
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`16· · · · · · ·But, you know, I -- I don't think I can,
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`17· ·right now, construct any example, kind of
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`18· ·hypothetical example, to construct an example where
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`19· ·they have the same or similar meaning.· I think
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`20· ·that's a -- and I understand the meaning of these
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`21· ·terms is important.· It's difficult for me on the fly
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`22· ·right now to construct an example.
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`23· · · · Q.· ·Dr. Cooklev, what was the basis of your
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`24· ·testimony that the words "interleaving" and
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`25· ·"combining" can have the same meaning?
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`10
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`·1· · · · A.· ·I was just trying to answer correctly your
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`·2· ·question.· And I think my answer is correct.
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`·3· · · · Q.· ·Okay.· What is the basis which makes your
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`·4· ·testimony that interleaving and combining -- well,
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`·5· ·withdrawn.
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`·6· · · · · · ·Understanding your previous testimony to be
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`·7· ·that the words "interleaving" and "combining" can
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`·8· ·have the same meaning, what is the factual or
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`·9· ·technical basis that makes that testimony correct?
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`10· · · · · · ·MR. GRAVES:· Objection.· Form.
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`11· · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· Only that -- in the abstract,
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`12· ·in a certain context, interleaving could be a type of
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`13· ·combining.
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`14· ·BY MR. GREEN:
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`15· · · · Q.· ·Okay.· I'm going to drop an exhibit in the
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`16· ·chat.· It is not previously marked.· I am going to
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`17· ·assign it -- to make sure it's outside of our
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`18· ·sequence of any other exhibits, I'm going to assign
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`19· ·it the number 6000.
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`20· · · · · · · · ·(Whereupon Exhibit 6000 was marked for
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`21· · · · · · · · ·identification.)
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`22· ·BY MR. GREEN:
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`23· · · · Q.· ·Let me know when you have that.
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`24· · · · A.· ·I downloaded Exhibit 6000 from the chat.
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`25· · · · Q.· ·Bear with me one minute, please.· Okay. I
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`11
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`·1· ·have it.
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`·2· · · · · · ·Dr. Cooklev, looking at the diagram showing
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`·3· ·the yellow rectangles and green rectangles that has
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`·4· ·been marked as Exhibit 6000, would you say the yellow
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`·5· ·and green rectangles leaving the box marked
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`·6· ·"multiplexing" have been interleaved, have been
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`·7· ·combined, or both?
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`·8· · · · · · ·MR. GRAVES:· I'll object that this is
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`·9· ·outside the scope.
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`10· ·BY MR. GREEN:
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`11· · · · Q.· ·You may answer, Dr. Cooklev.
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`12· · · · A.· ·So the question is whether the green
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`13· ·packets and the yellow packets are interleaved or
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`14· ·combined?
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`15· · · · Q.· ·So let me be very clear, Dr. Cooklev.· And
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`16· ·thank you for asking for the clarification.
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`17· · · · · · ·So first, I want to confirm that we are
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`18· ·both looking at the diagram marked as Exhibit 6000
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`19· ·which shows a sequence of green blocks and a sequence
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`20· ·of yellow blocks entering a rectangle labeled
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`21· ·"multiplexing" and then exiting the multiplexing
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`22· ·rectangle on its left side.
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`23· · · · · · ·Do you see the document?
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`24· · · · A.· ·Yes.
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`25· · · · Q.· ·All right.· So the green and yellow blocks
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`12
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`·1· ·that are exiting the left side of the multiplexing
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`·2· ·rectangle of Exhibit 6000, are those green and yellow
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`·3· ·blocks interleaved, are they combined, or is it
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`·4· ·possible they're both interleaved and combined?
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`·5· · · · · · ·MR. GRAVES:· Objection to the form.· Beyond
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`·6· ·the scope.
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`·7· · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· It is also possible that they
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`·8· ·are neither interleaved nor combined.
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`·9· ·BY MR. GREEN:
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`10· · · · Q.· ·Okay.· Dr. Cooklev, looking at the
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`11· ·configuration of green and yellow blocks that are
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`12· ·exiting the multiplexing rectangle in Exhibit 6000,
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`13· ·what would you say describes the arrangement of those
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`14· ·green and yellow blocks?· Are they interleaved?· Are
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`15· ·they combined?· Are they both?· Or are they neither
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`16· ·interleaved nor combined?
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`17· · · · · · ·MR. GRAVES:· Objection.· Form.· Beyond the
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`18· ·scope.· Objection.· Vague.
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`19· · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· They are neither interleaved
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`20· ·nor combined.
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`21· ·BY MR. GREEN:
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`22· · · · Q.· ·But your testimony is that the green and
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`23· ·yellow blocks entering the multiplexing rectangle in
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`24· ·two separate sequences on the right side and exiting
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`25· ·the multiplexing rectangle in one sequence on the
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`13
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`·1· ·left side are neither interleaved nor combined; is
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`·2· ·that your opinion?
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`·3· · · · A.· ·Yes.· The green and yellow boxes on this
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`·4· ·figure are neither interleaved nor combined.
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`·5· · · · Q.· ·Why is it that you believe the green and
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`·6· ·yellow blocks exiting the left side of the
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`·7· ·multiplexing rectangle in Exhibit 6000 to be neither
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`·8· ·interleaved nor combined?
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`·9· · · · · · ·MR. GRAVES:· Objection.· Form.
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`10· ·BY MR. GREEN:
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`11· · · · Q.· ·You may answer.
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`12· · · · A.· ·So I'm just -- you're just giving me this
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`13· ·example, and it's something that -- that I'd like to
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`14· ·have more time to analyze.· And, I mean, this
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`15· ·rectangle -- the rectangle in the figure, I
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`16· ·understand you called this multiplexing.· But to
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`17· ·analyze something like this, or a system like this, I
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`18· ·think I need more context.
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`19· · · · · · ·So I'm just -- I'm giving you a -- indeed
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`20· ·what I can do is give you just an answer based on
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`21· ·some quick analysis of this hypothetical system.· And
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`22· ·you say these green and yellow are -- are -- you
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`23· ·said, "boxes."· And these green and yellow boxes are
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`24· ·just transmitted unaltered at the output.· Just --
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`25· ·just by looking at it, it doesn't seem that they are
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`·1· ·combined, that there is some combining going on in
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`·2· ·interleaving.
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`·3· · · · Q.· ·Are you familiar with the term "data
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`·4· ·selector"?
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`·5· · · · A.· ·Yes.
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`·6· · · · Q.· ·What is your understanding of the term
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`·7· ·"data selector"?
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`·8· · · · A.· ·One way to implement the data selector is
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`·9· ·using a digital logic circuit which, at any one time,
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`10· ·selects one input and connects that input to the
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`11· ·output.
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`12· · · · Q.· ·When you say, "data selector is using a
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`13· ·digital logic circuit which, at any one time, selects
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`14· ·one input," do you mean the data selector is
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`15· ·selecting or choosing one input from among multiple
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`16· ·inputs?
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`17· · · · A.· ·Yeah, that's one way to implement a data
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`18· ·selector, and.
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`19· · · · Q.· ·It is.
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`20· · · · A.· ·It is, and there are -- there's more than
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`21· ·one input.
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`22· · · · Q.· ·All right.· Would you agree with me that a
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`23· ·multiplexer can be used to select, at any one time,
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`24· ·one input from among multiple inputs and then connect
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`25· ·that selected input to an output?
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`15
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`·1· · · · A.· ·No.· We were just talking about data
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`·2· ·selector --
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`·3· · · · Q.· ·I'm asking you --
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`·4· · · · A.· ·-- and --
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`·5· · · · Q.· ·Oh, please go ahead.
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`·6· · · · A.· ·And in -- in some contexts, that data
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`·7· ·selector can be called a multiplexer.
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`·8· · · · Q.· ·In some context a data selector can be
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`·9· ·called a multiplexer?
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`10· · · · A.· ·In some context it can be referred to as a
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`11· ·multiplexer.
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`12· · · · Q.· ·When you say it can be referred to, are you
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`13· ·referring to a data selector as the thing that can be
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`14· ·referred to as a multiplexer?
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`15· · · · A.· ·Yes.
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`16· · · · Q.· ·All right.· In what context can a data
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`17· ·selector be referred to as a multiplexer?
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`18· · · · A.· ·Well, in one example I think is in the
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`19· ·Bernard prior art reference where there is an element
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`20· ·that is called a multiplexer, but in reality it is a
`
`21· ·data selector element.· But even then, it doesn't
`
`22· ·seem to me that the figure that you have drawn in
`
`23· ·Exhibit 6000 is an accurate representation of the
`
`24· ·operation of the data selector in Bernard.
`
`25· · · · Q.· ·What is your understanding of the term
`
`16
`
`
`
`·1· ·"interleave"?
`
`·2· · · · A.· ·I'm not sure I have an alternative way of
`
`·3· ·saying it.· I think it's -- the term "interleave" is
`
`·4· ·part -- is used in the proposed claim construction,
`
`·5· ·in the claim construction proposed by the defendants
`
`·6· ·in the District Court case -- District Court case.
`
`·7· · · · · · ·So it's almost like you are asking me to
`
`·8· ·provide a construction for the construction.
`
`·9· · · · Q.· ·Dr. Cooklev, earlier you testified that you
`
`10· ·understand the meaning of the term "interleave," so
`
`11· ·I'm asking you now to state what your understanding
`
`12· ·of the term "interleave" is.
`
`13· · · · A.· ·You know, I'm not sure I have a -- like a
`
`14· ·definition for interleaving.· But kind of as a
`
`15· ·general concept -- as a general concept it involves
`
`16· ·some kind of processing.
`
`17· · · · Q.· ·As a general concept -- well, withdrawn.
`
`18· · · · · · ·What kind of processing is involved in your
`
`19· ·understanding of the term "interleave"?
`
`20· · · · A.· ·Oh, I said some -- some kind of processing.
`
`21· · · · Q.· ·Specifically what kinds of processing would
`
`22· ·be involved in the term or in the process of
`
`23· ·interleaving, as you understand the term?
`
`24· · · · · · ·Let me restate that, please.· Can you
`
`25· ·provide some specific examples of the type of
`
`17
`
`
`
`·1· ·processing that would be involved in interleaving as
`
`·2· ·you understand that term?
`
`·3· · · · A.· ·As an example, I mean, I can follow --
`
`·4· ·maybe I could kind of give an example in the -- in
`
`·5· ·the abstract.· If you break down input streams and
`
`·6· ·produce an output of that way, that could be an
`
`·7· ·example.
`
`·8· · · · Q.· ·What do you mean when you say interleaving
`
`·9· ·would involve breaking down input streams and
`
`10· ·producing an output of that way?
`
`11· · · · · · ·MR. GRAVES:· Objection.· Form.· Substance.
`
`12· ·BY MR. GREEN:
`
`13· · · · Q.· ·You may answer.
`
`14· · · · A.· ·I mean, that's -- I meant exactly what I
`
`15· ·said.· I'm not sure what -- what is more to explain.
`
`16· · · · Q.· ·Would you describe the process of breaking
`
`17· ·down input streams and producing an output in a way
`
`18· ·that matches your understanding of the term
`
`19· ·"interleaving"?
`
`20· · · · · · ·MR. GRAVES:· Objection.· Form.
`
`21· · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· I'm not sure I can describe
`
`22· ·this example any further.
`
`23· ·BY MR. GREEN:
`
`24· · · · Q.· ·Is it your understanding that the term
`
`25· ·"interleaving" refers to breaking down input streams
`
`18
`
`
`
`·1· ·and producing a single output?
`
`·2· · · · A.· ·In some contexts, that could be an example.
`
`·3· · · · Q.· ·What type of breaking down of input streams
`
`·4· ·are you referring to?· What specific processing
`
`·5· ·operation qualifies as breaking down?
`
`·6· · · · A.· ·I mean, as I -- I think I answered, it's --
`
`·7· ·it's not something that I can -- I can now describe
`
`·8· ·in greater detail.
`
`·9· · · · Q.· ·As we sit here today, do you have any
`
`10· ·further information to provide on what you mean by
`
`11· ·interleaving as requiring breaking down input
`
`12· ·streams?
`
`13· · · · · · ·MR. GRAVES:· Objection.· Form.· Substance.
`
`14· · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· Well, you asked me to
`
`15· ·construct a hypothetical example.· I mean, stuff like
`
`16· ·that is -- you asked me to do it on the fly, and I
`
`17· ·did my best to say in some contexts this could be an
`
`18· ·example of -- of interleaving.· But I just can't
`
`19· ·describe this any -- in any more detail.
`
`20· ·BY MR. GREEN:
`
`21· · · · Q.· ·What is your understanding of the word
`
`22· ·"combining"?
`
`23· · · · A.· ·Can -- can I look at my declaration?
`
`24· · · · Q.· ·Yes.
`
`25· · · · A.· ·Will you -- may I look at the copy of the
`
`19
`
`
`
`·1· ·declaration on my computer?
`
`·2· · · · Q.· ·I -- I can drop it in the chat for the
`
`·3· ·benefit of the court reporter, but you are welcome to
`
`·4· ·open the copy on your computer or you can wait for me
`
`·5· ·to drop it in the chat which will take just a moment.
`
`·6· · · · A.· ·Okay.· My -- my -- my copy is unmarked.
`
`·7· · · · Q.· ·I would accept your representation, but
`
`·8· ·just for -- say for administration and completeness,
`
`·9· ·I have placed into the chat room -- or into the chat
`
`10· ·box rather, exhibit -- what is previously marked as
`
`11· ·Exhibit 2019, which is Dr. Cooklev's second
`
`12· ·declaration.
`
`13· · · · · · ·Is that the document you were hoping to
`
`14· ·refer to, Dr. Cooklev?
`
`15· · · · A.· ·In just a second, I will --
`
`16· · · · Q.· ·Of course.
`
`17· · · · A.· ·So in my declaration in paragraph 33, I --
`
`18· ·where I use combine, I state that, "In the District
`
`19· ·Court action, the patent owner has proposed a
`
`20· ·construction of multiplexing as to combine multiple
`
`21· ·signal streams or data streams into a single signal
`
`22· ·stream or data stream for transmission or further
`
`23· ·processing, or split a single signal stream or data
`
`24· ·stream into multiple signal streams or data streams
`
`25· ·for transmission or further processing."
`
`20
`
`
`
`·1· · · · Q.· ·I do see where you have offered that
`
`·2· ·understanding of a position that the patent owner has
`
`·3· ·taken in the District Court litigation.· But my
`
`·4· ·question was different.· My question was not about
`
`·5· ·the definition of the term "multiplexing."· My
`
`·6· ·question was about the term "combining," and my
`
`·7· ·question is this:· What is your understanding of the
`
`·8· ·term "combine" or "combining" that you have used to
`
`·9· ·provide your testimony thus far?
`
`10· · · · A.· ·So I'm not going to -- first I want to
`
`11· ·clarify that in connection with my second declaration
`
`12· ·for the IPR, I was not asked to provide any opinions
`
`13· ·regarding claim construction.· I just applied the
`
`14· ·claim constructions that -- I mean, I -- and to just
`
`15· ·qualify my previous sentence, I wasn't asked to
`
`16· ·provide claim construction opinions regarding the
`
`17· ·term "multiplexing."· It's -- but what I was asked to
`
`18· ·do is just apply both proposed constructions.
`
`19· · · · · · ·So but I understand your question is about
`
`20· ·combine or combining, and so in -- your question is
`
`21· ·asking me to construe the construction.· So I think
`
`22· ·what's relevant is that I just wasn't asked to
`
`23· ·even -- even propose here a construction.· I was just
`
`24· ·applying it.
`
`25· · · · Q.· ·Dr. Cooklev, at the beginning of the
`
`21
`
`
`
`·1· ·deposition I asked you if you understood the term
`
`·2· ·"combining," and you testified that you did.
`
`·3· · · · · · ·Do you recall that?
`
`·4· · · · A.· ·I do.
`
`·5· · · · Q.· ·All right.· And you now testified that you
`
`·6· ·have applied a construction of the term
`
`·7· ·"multiplexing," which begins with the phrase "to
`
`·8· ·combine," correct?
`
`·9· · · · A.· ·Yes.
`
`10· · · · Q.· ·All right.· So my question to you is:· What
`
`11· ·is the understanding of the words "combining" or
`
`12· ·"combine" that you have used as the basis of your
`
`13· ·testimony today and your opinions in your
`
`14· ·declaration?· Are you able to offer me that
`
`15· ·understanding?
`
`16· · · · A.· ·There is a -- as a general idea maybe I can
`
`17· ·give a -- kind of a general idea, not in a way that
`
`18· ·I'm -- I'm not construing combined.· I cannot --
`
`19· ·that's -- construing terms is -- I'm sure you're
`
`20· ·aware, is a serious undertaking that requires quite a
`
`21· ·bit of work.· So I can't now construe combine.
`
`22· · · · Q.· ·What do you mean when you say you can't now
`
`23· ·construe the term "combine"?· Well, let me -- let
`
`24· ·me -- let me withdraw that and ask a different
`
`25· ·question.
`
`22
`
`
`
`·1· · · · · · ·As we sit here today, are you able to offer
`
`·2· ·me some definition or understanding of the words
`
`·3· ·"combining" or "to combine" that you applied in
`
`·4· ·forming your opinions in the declaration in your
`
`·5· ·testimony today, or is that something that you're not
`
`·6· ·prepared to do at the moment?
`
`·7· · · · A.· ·Well, I'm -- I'm -- for the reasons that I
`
`·8· ·just gave, that I just wasn't asked to -- regarding
`
`·9· ·the term "multiplexing," I wasn't asked to propose a
`
`10· ·construction for this -- for the purpose of this
`
`11· ·declaration.
`
`12· · · · Q.· ·Dr. Cooklev -- go ahead.
`
`13· · · · A.· ·I'm not -- I didn't prepare -- I'm not
`
`14· ·prepared to explain that.
`
`15· · · · · · ·But if, in the abstract -- I mean, you are
`
`16· ·asking me --
`
`17· · · · Q.· ·But I'm not asking you in the abstract.
`
`18· · · · · · ·MR. GRAVES:· Chris, let him finish.
`
`19· · · · · · ·MR. GREEN:· I thought he was finished.· I'm
`
`20· ·sorry.
`
`21· · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· I was going to say that an
`
`22· ·example -- an example of combining could be -- an
`
`23· ·example could be some kind of processing.
`
`24· ·BY MR. GREEN:
`
`25· · · · Q.· ·Okay.· Understanding that you were not
`
`23
`
`
`
`·1· ·asked to independently prepare constructions of claim
`
`·2· ·terms, do you understand that my question is about
`
`·3· ·the word "combined" -- withdrawn.
`
`·4· · · · · · ·As we sit here today, have you prepared to
`
`·5· ·offer specific definitions or understandings of the
`
`·6· ·operations that would constitute combining or to
`
`·7· ·combine?
`
`·8· · · · · · ·Let me rephrase that question.
`
`·9· · · · · · ·As we sit here today, are you prepared to
`
`10· ·offer specific definitions or examples of processing
`
`11· ·operations that would constitute combining as you
`
`12· ·understand that term and have used it in your
`
`13· ·testimony and opinions?
`
`14· · · · A.· ·Well, now we -- the short answer to the
`
`15· ·question is no.
`
`16· · · · Q.· ·Okay.· We can move on.
`
`17· · · · · · ·MR. GREEN:· Let's take a quick break, if we
`
`18· ·can.
`
`19· · · · · · ·(Recess:· 11:04 a.m. to 11:23 a.m.)
`
`20· ·BY MR. GREEN:
`
`21· · · · Q.· ·Dr. Cooklev, welcome back.· I hope the
`
`22· ·break was pleasant.· One housekeeping matter.· Can
`
`23· ·you tell me whether you spoke with anyone during the
`
`24· ·break?
`
`25· · · · A.· ·No, I did not.
`
`24
`
`
`
`·1· · · · Q.· ·Thank you.
`
`·2· · · · · · ·All right.· Dr. Cooklev, are you familiar
`
`·3· ·with the general operation of cellular phones as they
`
`·4· ·existed in the 1990s and specifically at the relevant
`
`·5· ·time frame for the '946 patent that is at issue in
`
`·6· ·this proceeding?
`
`·7· · · · A.· ·Yes, generally I am familiar with the
`
`·8· ·operation of cell phones as of that timeframe.
`
`·9· · · · Q.· ·Okay.· Would you agree with me that in the
`
`10· ·relevant time frame -- well, withdrawn.
`
`11· · · · · · ·Would you agree me that it is possible to
`
`12· ·configure a cell phone to operate on networks -- two
`
`13· ·different networks with two different protocols?
`
`14· · · · A.· ·I mean, I would like -- if you could please
`
`15· ·repeat the question so that I think it more
`
`16· ·thoroughly.
`
`17· · · · Q.· ·Yes, of course.· Would you agree with me
`
`18· ·that as of 1999 it was possible to configure a
`
`19· ·cellular telephone to operate on two different
`
`20· ·networks where each network conforms to a different
`
`21· ·communication protocol.
`
`22· · · · A.· ·What kind of two networks will be these two
`
`23· ·networks?
`
`24· · · · Q.· ·I'm asking you if you -- can you think of
`
`25· ·any examples of a cellular phone that existed as of
`
`25
`
`
`
`·1· ·1999 that would have been equipped with componentry
`
`·2· ·and circuitry for operating on two different networks
`
`·3· ·where each of the networks implemented a different
`
`·4· ·communication protocol?
`
`·5· · · · A.· ·I don't think cell phones as of 1999 had
`
`·6· ·that capability.· They could only communicate on the
`
`·7· ·cellular network.
`
`·8· · · · Q.· ·Okay.· So would you agree with me that as
`
`·9· ·of 1999 there were cellular phone networks that
`
`10· ·operated under GSM protocols and technologies?
`
`11· · · · A.· ·GSM was known in 1999.
`
`12· · · · Q.· ·And do you also recall that a form of
`
`13· ·cellular network that operated under CDMA, or
`
`14· ·code-division multiple access, existed as of 1999?
`
`15· · · · A.· ·CDMA was known in 1999.
`
`16· · · · Q.· ·And do you recall that there were mobile
`
`17· ·devices capable of communicating wirelessly with
`
`18· ·other types of network -- networks; for example,
`
`19· ·networks that used the Internet protocol?
`
`20· · · · A.· ·Mobile devices using Internet protocol,
`
`21· ·that was a very novel feature around that timeframe.
`
`22· ·I think that would be correct to say.· I can't agree
`
`23· ·that mobile devices using networks that use Internet
`
`24· ·protocol existed, which I think was your question.
`
`25· ·I'm not sure I can quite agree with this, but it was
`
`26
`
`
`
`·1· ·a very novel concept that was becoming known as an
`
`·2· ·idea around that timeframe.
`
`·3· · · · Q.· ·Is it your belief that as of 1999 there
`
`·4· ·were no form of mobile devices that were capable of
`
`·5· ·wirelessly communicating with a network operating
`
`·6· ·under the IP or Internet protocol?
`
`·7· · · · A.· ·No, I kept thinking about the answer.· But
`
`·8· ·now I'm not sure I remember entirely the -- I'm not
`
`·9· ·sure I remember the complete question.· I don't think
`
`10· ·people were generally using cell phones at that time
`
`11· ·to access networks that were using Internet protocol.
`
`12· ·As I said, it was a very novel feature, that the idea
`
`13· ·of this -- I think, the idea existed.
`
`14· · · · Q.· ·Dr. Cooklev, you might have unintentionally
`
`15· ·reframed my question.· So I want to clarify.· All
`
`16· ·right.
`
`17· · · · · · ·So you used the term "cellular phone," but
`
`18· ·I didn't use the term "cellular phone."· I used the
`
`19· ·term "mobile devices."
`
`20· · · · · · ·So my first question is this:· Do you
`
`21· ·understand that the term "mobile device" can
`
`22· ·incorporate more types of electronic devices than a
`
`23· ·cellular phone?
`
`24· · · · A.· ·Yes, I do understand that the term "mobile
`
`25· ·device" is -- can include other devices, devices
`
`27
`
`
`
`·1· ·other than cell phones.
`
`·2· · · · Q.· ·Okay.· As of 1999 were there
`
`·3· ·implementations of mobile devices that could
`
`·4· ·wirelessly communicate with a communications network
`
`·5· ·operating under the IP or Internet Protocol?
`
`·6· · · · A.· ·So -- and first, regarding the answer that
`
`·7· ·I just gave that mobile device could include -- the
`
`·8· ·term "mobile device" could include devices other than
`
`·9· ·cell phones, but -- which is true today.· Maybe --
`
`10· ·well, maybe in a sense it was also true in 1999.
`
`11· ·So -- but were mobile devices -- were mobile devices
`
`12· ·known that could access networks with Internet
`
`13· ·Protocol?· I don't think in 1999 such mobile devices
`
`14· ·were fielded.· But the concept that a mobile device
`
`15· ·could access the Internet, for example, the concept
`
`16· ·was known.
`
`17· · · · Q.· ·Dr. Cooklev, what are you referring to when
`
`18· ·you say, "the concept that a mobile device could
`
`19· ·access the Internet, for example, was known"?
`
`20· · · · A.· ·I'm not sure what is unclear about my
`
`21· ·answer and how can I clarify it any further.
`
`22· · · · Q.· ·You said that in 1999 you don't believe
`
`23· ·mobile devices were fielded, but the concept of a
`
`24· ·mobile device accessing the Internet was -- let me
`
`25· ·restate this.
`
`28
`
`
`
`·1· · · · · · ·I understood your testimony to be as
`
`·2· ·follows, that as of 1999 you don't believe mobile
`
`·3· ·devices capable of accessing the Internet were
`
`·4· ·fielded, but the concept of a mobile device accessing
`
`·5· ·the Internet was known.
`
`·6· · · · · · ·What did you mean by your reference to the
`
`·7· ·concept being known?
`
`·8· · · · · · ·MR. GRAVES:· Objection.· Form.· Objection.
`
`·9· ·Substance.
`
`10· · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· I meant that the idea of
`
`11· ·Internet access by a mobile device was -- was --
`
`12· ·seems to be known as of that timeframe.
`
`13· ·BY MR. GREEN:
`
`14· · · · Q.· ·Can you give me some specifics as to why
`
`15· ·you have this recollection that the idea of Internet
`
`16· ·access by a mobile device was known as of 1999; for
`
`17· ·example, which companies or which entities were
`
`18· ·researching or developing this concept?
`
`19· · · · A.· ·And for the record, I am looking at my
`
`20· ·declaration.· The basis for my opinion is that
`
`21· ·Billstrom, which is one of the references that has
`
`22· ·been identified in the petition, that Billstrom is
`
`23· ·existent as of that timeframe.
`
`24· · · · Q.· ·Am I correct that the Billstrom reference
`
`25· ·is a patent that was assigned to the Swedish
`
`29
`
`
`
`·1· ·telephone company, Ericsson?
`
`·2· · · · A.· ·I'm not looking at Billstrom right now, but
`
`·3· ·I believe you are correct.
`
`·4· · · · Q.· ·Right.· Am I also correct that Ericsson is
`
`·5· ·one of the most well-known makers of
`
`·6· ·telecommunications equipment in the
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