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` UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
` Case No. IPR2022-00797
`
` GOOGLE, LLC, :
` :
` Petitioner, :
` :
` :
` vs. :
` :
` :
` :
` :
` JAWBONE INNOVATIONS, LLC, :
` :
` Patent Owner. :
` :
`
` -------------------------------------
`
`
` DEPOSITION UNDER ORAL EXAMINATION OF
`
` JEFFREY S. VIPPERMAN, PH.D.
`
` Monday, February 20, 2023 - 10:00 a.m.
`
`Reported by:
`
`JENNIFER L. WIELAGE, CCR, RPR, CRR
`
`Job No.: 6655
`
`TransPerfect Legal Solutions
`212-400-8845 - Depo@TransPerfect.com
`
`Jawbone's Exhibit No. 2008, IPR2022-01124
`Page 001
`
`
`
` UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
` Case No. IPR2022-00797
`
` GOOGLE, LLC, :
` :
` Petitioner, :
` :
` :
` vs. :
` :
` :
` :
` :
` JAWBONE INNOVATIONS, LLC, :
` :
` Patent Owner. :
` :
`
` -------------------------------------
`
`
` DEPOSITION UNDER ORAL EXAMINATION OF
`
` JEFFREY S. VIPPERMAN, PH.D.
`
` Monday, February 20, 2023 - 10:00 a.m.
`
`Reported by:
`
`JENNIFER L. WIELAGE, CCR, RPR, CRR
`
`Job No.: 6655
`
`TransPerfect Legal Solutions
`212-400-8845 - Depo@TransPerfect.com
`
`Jawbone's Exhibit No. 2008, IPR2022-01124
`Page 001
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`Page 2
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` TRANSCRIPT of the remote deposition of the
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`above-named witness, called for Oral Examination in
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`the above-entitled matter, said deposition being
`
`taken pursuant to Federal Court Rules, by and before
`
`JENNIFER L. WIELAGE, Certified Shorthand Reporter and
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`Notary Public on Monday, February 20, 2023,
`
`commencing at 10:00 in the forenoon.
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`Jawbone's Exhibit No. 2008, IPR2022-01124
`Page 002
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`Page 3
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`A P P E A R A N C E S:
`
`FABRICANT LLP
`411 Theodore Fremd Avenue
`Suite 206 South
`Rye, New York 10580
`(212) 257-5797
`BY: RICHARD COWELL, ESQ.
` RCowell@fabricantllp.com
`Attorneys for Patent Owner
`
`FINNEGAN HENDERSON FARABOW GARRETT & DUNNER, LLP
`1875 Explorer Street
`Suite 800
`Reston, Virginia 20190
`(571) 203-2700
`BY: ALEX BOYER, ESQ.
` alexander.boyer@finnegan.com
`BY: DANIEL COOLEY, ESQ.
` daniel.cooley@finnegan.com
`Attorneys for Google
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`Jawbone's Exhibit No. 2008, IPR2022-01124
`Page 003
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` I N D E X
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`Page 4
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` W I T N E S S
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` Testimony of:
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`JEFFREY S. VIPPERMAN, PH.D. PAGE NO.
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` EXAMINATION BY MR. COWELL 6
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` E X H I B I T S
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` NUMBER DESCRIPTION PAGE
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`Jawbone's Exhibit No. 2008, IPR2022-01124
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` DEPOSITION SUPPORT INDEX
` DIRECTION TO WITNESS NOT TO ANSWER
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` REQUEST FOR PRODUCTION OF DOCUMENTS
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`Jawbone's Exhibit No. 2008, IPR2022-01124
`Page 005
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`Page 6
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` JEFFREY S. VIPPERMAN, PH.D.,
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` 63 Mount Lebanon Boulevard, Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
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` 15228, having been first duly sworn, testifies as
`
` follows:
`
` EXAMINATION BY MR. COWELL:
`
` Q. Good morning, Dr. Vipperman.
`
` A. Good morning.
`
` Q. Could you state your full name for
`
` the record, please?
`
` A. It's Jeffrey Stuart Vipperman.
`
` Q. And where are you currently located?
`
` A. I am in Reston, Virginia at the
`
` Finnegan office.
`
` Q. Have you ever been deposed before?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. How many times?
`
` A. I'm not sure; maybe 12 or 15 times.
`
` Q. Since you've been deposed before, I
`
` assume you know the rules, but we'll just go over
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` them very quickly.
`
` You're here -- I'm here to ask you
`
` questions and you're going to answer them; is that
`
` clear?
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`Jawbone's Exhibit No. 2008, IPR2022-01124
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` A. Yes.
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` Q. As you know, we have a court reporter
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` taking down our words, so we do need to have a verbal
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` answer to every question.
`
` Nodding or grunting will not -- will
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` not show up on the record well?
`
` Is that clear?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. If, at any time, you'd like a break,
`
` just let me know and I will just ask that you answer
`
` any pending question before we go on the break.
`
` Is that fair?
`
` A. That's fair.
`
` Q. So you just took out your phone. Are
`
` you turning it off?
`
` A. I am. It's off.
`
` Q. Is anyone else in the room with you
`
` right now?
`
` A. Yes. My counsel, so we have Dan --
`
` Cooley, right?
`
` MR. COOLEY: Correct.
`
` A. And Alex Boyer here.
`
` Q. Okay. Anyone other than Mr. Cooley
`
` and Mr. Boyer?
`
` A. No.
`
`TransPerfect Legal Solutions
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`Jawbone's Exhibit No. 2008, IPR2022-01124
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` Q. If, at any time, any of my questions
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` are unclear, please let me know and I will do my best
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` to rephrase or clarify.
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` But if you do answer my question,
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` I'll assume you understood it. Is that fair?
`
` A. Okay.
`
` THE REPORTER: Yes, sir?
`
` THE DEPONENT: Yes, sorry.
`
` BY MR. COWELL:
`
` Q. Since we are remote, you are going to
`
` have to speak up a little bit.
`
` A. Okay.
`
` Q. Are you on any medications today that
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` would prevent you from giving full or truthful
`
` testimony?
`
` A. No.
`
` Q. Is there any other reason you can't
`
` give full and truthful testimony today?
`
` A. No.
`
` Q. You told me a few minutes ago you've
`
` been deposed somewhere between 12 and 15 times.
`
` How many of those were for IPR
`
` proceedings?
`
` A. I believe one was a PGR proceeding
`
` and the rest were IPRs.
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`Jawbone's Exhibit No. 2008, IPR2022-01124
`Page 008
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` proceedings?
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` A. Correct.
`
` Q. So you've never been deposed in a
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` district court case; is that correct?
`
` A. That's correct.
`
` Q. Have you ever testified at a trial?
`
` A. No.
`
` Q. Of those 12 to 15 -- actually, strike
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` that.
`
` How many other cases have you
`
` submitted a declaration in?
`
` A. You mean ever?
`
` Q. Yes.
`
` A. I would have to look at my CV, but
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` I -- I would think I probably submitted about the
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` same number of -- well, I submitted a few more IPRs
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` than I've done declarations -- than I've done
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` depositions I'd say.
`
` Q. Have you ever submitted an expert
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` report in a district court case?
`
` A. No.
`
` Q. In those other IPRs, have you ever
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` provided a declaration where you opined that a patent
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` was valid?
`
`TransPerfect Legal Solutions
`212-400-8845 - Depo@TransPerfect.com
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`Jawbone's Exhibit No. 2008, IPR2022-01124
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` A. I believe I have.
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` Q. And what case was that if you can
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` recall?
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` A. It would help if I had my CV.
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` Perhaps the Invensys case.
`
` Q. Is that the only case you can recall
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` right now?
`
` A. Off the top of my head, yes.
`
` Q. Where do you currently work?
`
` A. University of Pittsburgh.
`
` Q. And what is your title there?
`
` A. I am professor of mechanical
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` engineering, bioengineering and communication
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` sciences and disorders and also vice chair of the
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` mechanical engineering and material science
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` department.
`
` Q. What classes do you currently teach?
`
` A. Right now I'm teaching a Mechanical
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` Measurements II course -- oh, you mean all of the
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` courses I teach or what I'm teaching currently this
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` semester?
`
` Q. My question was just currently for
`
` this semester.
`
` A. Okay.
`
` Q. Is that -- so is the Mechanical
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`Jawbone's Exhibit No. 2008, IPR2022-01124
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` Measurements II course the only course you're
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` teaching this semester?
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` A. That's correct.
`
` Q. Are there a set of other courses that
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` you, typically, teach?
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` A. Yes. I also teach two graduate
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` courses. One's acoustics and the other is a signal
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` processing course.
`
` Q. What's the general subject matter of
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` the acoustics course you teach?
`
` A. It's an introductory level acoustics
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` course, so we cover wave propagation, continuous
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` systems, with vibration as well as vibration in air
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` which we call sound, do some array analysis and some
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` signal processing, talk about basic sources, things
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` of that nature.
`
` Q. And what's the general subject matter
`
` of the signal processing course you teach?
`
` A. So it is a random vibrations course,
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` and we, basically, learn how to analyze stochastic
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` systems in there, using various frequency domain and
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` time domain techniques, including power spectral
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` densities, both auto and cross-spectral densities.
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` There's a little bit of array work in that course as
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` well; things of that nature.
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` Q. What do you mean by a "random
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` vibrations course"?
`
` A. So random signal processing means
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` that the signals are stochastic and so because
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` they're not deterministic, we have to use special
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` tools in order to analyze them.
`
` Q. Other than the signal -- other than
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` the class that you told me about, do you teach any
`
` other classes on signal processing?
`
` A. No, I've taught a few short courses
`
` on it, but no other formal courses at the University
`
` of Pittsburgh.
`
` Q. Have you done any research on signal
`
` processing?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. What kind of research have you done
`
` on signal processing?
`
` A. So I started using signal processing
`
` in my research from the start as a masters student,
`
` and there I developed a -- an adaptive P-forward
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` vibration control system that was based on the
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` elements algorithm.
`
` From there, in my Ph.D. work, I used
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` signal processing in order to create a self-sensing
`
` piezoelectric transducer, and in order to do that, I
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`TransPerfect Legal Solutions
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`Jawbone's Exhibit No. 2008, IPR2022-01124
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` had to compensate the electrical response and remove
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` it from the piezoelectric and that allowed me to use
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` it as both a sensor and an actuator, which gives
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` special properties when you're doing control systems.
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` And so that sort of set the
`
` groundwork and I've used signal processing pretty
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` much ever since.
`
` Q. Have you ever taught any classes on
`
` speech processing?
`
` A. No, I have not.
`
` Q. Have you ever done any research on
`
` speech processing?
`
` A. Actually, I have. I do incorporate a
`
` little bit of speech processing in my acoustics
`
` course -- or my signal processing course. That's the
`
` one.
`
` Q. Have you ever done any research on
`
` speech processing?
`
` A. I --
`
` MR. BOYER: Objection; asked and
`
` answered. You can respond.
`
` A. I -- I don't recall doing so.
`
` BY MR. COWELL:
`
` Q. And you've done work for the
`
` Department of Defense; is that correct?
`
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` A. That's correct.
`
` Q. And what was the context of that
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` work?
`
` A. My current work with the Department
`
` of Defense relates to the effects of ultrasound on
`
` hearing and so trying to develop novel hearing aids
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` that would project sound into the head using
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` ultrasound, you would -- amplitude modulate the
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` signals, and they get demodulated inside the head and
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` the nice thing about ultrasound is it's very
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` directional, so you could target specific people with
`
` information if you wanted to.
`
` Q. How long have you been working with
`
` the Department of Defense?
`
` A. For this round, about three or four
`
` years.
`
` Q. Have you done any previous work
`
` before -- for the DOD before that?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. And what was that type of work?
`
` A. So one was an active passive
`
` vibration control system. It was designed for the
`
` 50-caliber machine gun that sits on top of a Humvee,
`
` and it had this problem where when you start firing
`
` it, the barrel would start moving up and down, and it
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`Jawbone's Exhibit No. 2008, IPR2022-01124
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` would -- you know, it's inaccurate when it does that,
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` and so our active passive vibration system controlled
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` those vibe -- our active passive vibration system
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` controlled the vibration and improved the accuracy of
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` the weapon.
`
` Q. When did you do that work?
`
` A. So I did that work in the early
`
` 2000s, and then I did additional work that related to
`
` developing a noise classifier for the military to use
`
` for their noise management and -- around military
`
` bases.
`
` Q. What is a -- what's a noise
`
` classifier?
`
` A. It's an algorithm; in this case, a
`
` neural network which is able to classify what type of
`
` noise and the particular classes that I looked at are
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` aircraft, vehicle, machine gunfire, small arms fire,
`
` large ordinance, wind and thunder.
`
` And so each of those is a class that
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` the sounds can be divided into.
`
` Q. When did you do the work on the noise
`
` classifier?
`
` A. It is that was 2005 through 2008 or
`
` '90.
`
` Q. Are those all the projects you've
`
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`Jawbone's Exhibit No. 2008, IPR2022-01124
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` worked on for the DOD?
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` A. That's all I can remember.
`
` Q. Were any of those projects managed
`
` through DARPA?
`
` A. The first one with the 50 caliber
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` machine gun, that was a DARPA project.
`
` Q. And the others were not?
`
` A. No, no, they're all Army.
`
` Q. And none of those projects had
`
` anything to do with noise cancelation; is that right?
`
` A. The DOD projects -- well, the first
`
` one deals with vibration cancelation which is related
`
` to noise cancelation.
`
` Q. But the first project, the -- the
`
` 50-caliber machine gun, that was actually physically
`
` controlling the vibrations of the gun; is that right?
`
` A. That's right, but I very much see
`
` acoustics as vibrations in air.
`
` Q. And you weren't cancelling out any
`
` audible noise when you did that first project; is
`
` that right?
`
` A. That's correct, yeah. My noise
`
` cancelation projects were appointed by NASA and
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` actually the Navy. So that's a piece of DOD funding.
`
` Q. Any of these projects you told me
`
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` about have anything to do with speech detection?
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` A. No.
`
` Q. You just mentioned you had some
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` projects for NASA.
`
` Can you tell me about those?
`
` A. Well, my Ph.D. research where I was
`
` describing the self-sensing piezoelectric actuator
`
` sensor and I did active -- I did multivariable active
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` structural acoustic control with those transducers.
`
` Q. Can you tell me a little bit more?
`
` What is a self-sensing piezoelectric actuator sensor?
`
` A. So if you take a piezo-ceramic and
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` you apply a charge to it, it changes shape. It can
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` get longer, and so we could use that as a principle
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` of actuation.
`
` When we -- conversely, if we stretch
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` a piezoelectric, it produces a charge, and so there
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` are two charges now.
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` So one is an electrical charge that
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` is the response to the voltage that we applied, and
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` the second is the sensing charge, if you will, that
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` represents the mechanical response of the transducer.
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` And so what I did was I developed an adaptive
`
` algorithm, and in combination with some analogue
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` electronics, which allowed me to adaptively remove
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` the electrical response of the charge so that I can
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` use it as an actuator but at the same time, still get
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` the sensor signal from the same patch, and in doing
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` so, we create what's called a collocated sensor and
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` an actuator and that's -- that's kind of a holy grail
`
` for controls because you can then create stability
`
` guaranties under those circumstances.
`
` Q. You also mentioned you did a
`
` multivariable active structural acoustic control
`
` using, I guess, the same transducers; is the right?
`
` A. That's right.
`
` Q. Can you tell me about that project?
`
` A. So, again, that was a NASA-funded
`
` project, and we were looking at ways to control
`
` vibration from panels, and the panels would represent
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` panels inside of an airplane, and so we were trying
`
` to control the interior noise of an aircraft using
`
` this active structural acoustic control.
`
` Q. And it wasn't -- strike that.
`
` Were you trying to control the noise
`
` by processing signals or through a different method?
`
` A. Processing signals.
`
` Q. How did you process signals to
`
` control the vibration from panels?
`
` A. I used a digital signal processor.
`
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`Jawbone's Exhibit No. 2008, IPR2022-01124
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` So I programmed the digital signal processor to
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` implement the algorithms.
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` Q. So were you physically controlling
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` the vibration from the panels or was it something
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` else?
`
` MR. BOYER: Objection; form.
`
` A. I'm not sure what you mean by
`
` "physically controlling."
`
` Q. I guess I'm a little confused because
`
` you said you were looking for ways to control
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` vibration for the panels as an example inside of an
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` airplane; is that right?
`
` A. That's correct.
`
` Q. So were you coming up with ways to
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` change how the panels actually vibrated or were you
`
` doing something else?
`
` A. I see. Yeah, so active structural
`
` acoustic control means that we're controlling the
`
` acoustic radiation from the panel and we do that
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` through vibrational inputs and what's interesting is
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` not all vibrations create sound equally, and so by
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` using active structural acoustic control, we can go
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` after the -- the modes of the plate that are more
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` responsible for transmitting sound.
`
` Q. I see. Are those two projects you
`
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` told me about the only NASA projects you worked on?
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` A. I believe so.
`
` Q. Okay. And then I believe you also
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` mentioned you did a -- one or more Navy projects; is
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` that right?
`
` A. That's correct.
`
` Q. And what were the Navy projects?
`
` A. The first Navy project was my masters
`
` research reactive vibration control using adaptive
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` P-forward algorithms.
`
` The second Navy project was actually
`
` the genesis of the ultrasound hearing-aid project, so
`
` they -- they funded it for the first year and then
`
` the Army has picked it up for the next four years.
`
` Q. Can you tell me a little bit more
`
` about the masters research project you did for the
`
` Navy?
`
` A. Sure. So I used those same
`
` piezoelectric patches, but they were not self-sensing
`
` actuators, but I used them as inputs to a beam. So
`
` we, typically, work on textbook-type structures so
`
` that we can model them easily and compare theory with
`
` experiment. And so the adaptive P-forward algorithm
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` was set up in order to minimize the response of the
`
` vibration at a point on the beam that was measured
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`Jawbone's Exhibit No. 2008, IPR2022-01124
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` with an accelerometer.
`
` Q. And are there any other Navy projects
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` besides those two that you told me about?
`
` A. Not that I recall.
`
` Q. Other than the projects you've told
`
` me about, have you done any projects relating to
`
` noise cancelation?
`
` A. Yes. So I developed -- I developed
`
` algorithm, which can be used for noise and vibration
`
` control called HTAG.
`
` I developed a resonant-type control
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` for acoustic systems -- yeah, I'm not sure what else
`
` without my CV.
`
` Q. And other than the projects we've
`
` already talked about, have you done any projects
`
` relating to speech processing?
`
` MR. BOYER: Objection; form.
`
` A. Not directly with speech processing,
`
` no, but I've used the tools of speech processing.
`
` BY MR. COWELL:
`
` Q. All right. And you understand we're
`
` here today for a deposition in regards to IPR
`
` 2022-00797; is that right?
`
` A. That's correct.
`
` Q. And that proceeding relates to a U.S.
`
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` Patent No. 8,321,213; is that right?
`
` A. That is correct.
`
` Q. And what materials do you have with
`
` you right now?
`
` A. I have Exhibits 1 through 7 and the
`
` institution decision.
`
` Q. And just to be clear when you say
`
` Exhibits 1 through 7, those are actually named 1001
`
` through 1007?
`
` A. That's correct.
`
` Q. Have you reviewed the institution
`
` decision?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. Do you agree with the Board's
`
` conclusions in the institution decision?
`
` MR. BOYER: Objection; form:
`
` A. So I understand that this is a
`
` preliminary decision, and, in many respects, the
`
` board agrees with us.
`
` Q. Are there any aspects of the Board's
`
` decision that you disagree with?
`
` MR. BOYER: Objection; form.
`
` A. I'm not sure. It's a long document
`
` and again, it's a preliminary decision.
`
` BY MR. COWELL:
`
`TransPerfect Legal Solutions
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`
`Jawbone's Exhibit No. 2008, IPR2022-01124
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` Q. You just don't know right now?
`
` A. I don't recall. I don't recall.
`
` Q. And you submitted a declaration in
`
` another IPR against the -- the '213 patent; is that
`
` right?
`
` A. That's correct.
`
` Q. And there, the board denied
`
` institution.
`
` Are you aware of that?
`
` MR. BOYER: Objection; scope.
`
` Objection; form.
`
` A. I am aware.
`
` BY MR. COWELL:
`
` Q. Did you review that decision in that
`
` case?
`
` A. I did.
`
` Q. Turning back to this proceeding, in
`
` this proceeding Petitioner, Google, has submitted
`
` four grounds of invalidity; is that right?
`
` A. That's correct.
`
` Q. And those four grounds are all
`
` obviousness; is that right?
`
` A. That's correct.
`
` Q. And those grounds are based on
`
` combinations of -- let's go through them one by one.
`
`TransPerfect Legal Solutions
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`Jawbone's Exhibit No. 2008, IPR2022-01124
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` Ground 1 is based on a combination of
`
` the reference Elko and Boll, B-o-l-l; is that right?
`
` A. That's correct.
`
` Q. And Ground 2 is Elko and Boll and
`
` then in view of Buck as well; is that right?
`
` A. That's right.
`
` Q. And Ground 3 is Elko, Boll and Buck
`
` further in view of Balan; is that right?
`
` A. That's correct.
`
` Q. And Ground 4 is Elko and Boll in view
`
` of Elko II; is that right?
`
` A. That's correct.
`
` Q. And you yourself have submitted a
`
` declaration in this case relating to those four
`
` grounds of invalidity, correct?
`
` A. That's correct.
`
` Q. Are all of your obviousness opinions
`
` included in that declaration?
`
` MR. BOYER: Objection; form.
`
` A. I believe so.
`
` BY MR. COWELL:
`
` Q. And within your declaration, you cite
`
` to evidence to support your opinions; is that right?
`
` A. That's correct.
`
` Q. And does your declaration say all the
`
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`Jawbone's Exhibit No. 2008, IPR2022-01124
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` evidence you relied on to arrive at your opinions?
`
` A. It does. That's in Section 4,
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` Materials Considered of my declaration.
`
` Q. You didn't rely on anything to form
`
` your opinions that you did not actually cite in your
`
` declaration, right?
`
` MR. BOYER: Objection; form.
`
` A. Well, I mean I relied on my -- my
`
` expert knowledge.
`
` BY MR. COWELL:
`
` Q. Did you rely on any materials other
`
` than your expert knowledge and those that are cited
`
` in your declaration to form your opinions?
`
` A. Not that I recall.
`
` Q. Who hired you to work on this case?
`
` A. Finnigan and Google.
`
` Q. And when were you retained to work on
`
` this case?
`
` A. I'm not sure which month, but it
`
` started in 2021.
`
` Q. Have you also been retained in
`
` connection with the district court litigation?
`
` MR. BOYER: Objection. It's
`
` privileged. I'll direct the witness not to answer.
`
` BY MR. COWELL:
`
`TransPerfect Legal Solutions
`212-400-8845 - Depo@TransPerfect.com
`
`Jawbone's Exhibit No. 2008, IPR2022-01124
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` Q. Did you conduct a prior art search in
`
` connection with this case?
`
` MR. BOYER: Objection. That's
`
` privileged and work product. Direct the witness not
`
` to answer.
`
` MR. COWELL: Counsel, how is it
`
` privileged if he performed a prior art search?
`
` MR. BOYER: If he did it in
`
` furtherance of litigation or of this case, it's work
`
` product protected.
`
` BY MR. COWELL:
`
` Q. Sir, have you ever performed a prior
`
` art search relating to the subject matter of the '213
`
` patent?
`
` MR. BOYER: Same objection. Direct
`
` the witness not to answer.
`
` MR. COWELL: And you're going to
`
` follow your attorney's instructions?
`
` THE DEPONENT: Yes.
`
` BY MR. COWELL:
`
` Q. If not for his instructions, could
`
` you give me a yes-or-no answer?
`
` MR. BOYER: I'm going to direct the
`
` witness not to answer.
`
` MR. COWELL: You're directing him not
`
`TransPerfect Legal Solutions
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`Jawbone's Exhibit No. 2008, IPR2022-01124
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` to answer whether he could provide an answer to a
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` question?
`
` MR. BOYER: Your specific question as
`
` it relates to performing a prior art search for this
`
`Page 27
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` patent, yes.
`
` BY MR. COWELL:
`
` Q. Did you, yourself, locate the five
`
` references that you relied on in your declaration?
`
` MR. BOYER: Same objection, counsel.
`
` We're into work product. I'll direct the witness not
`
` to answer.
`
` MR. COWELL: This isn't work product,
`
` Counsel. He can answer the question or you can
`
` instruct him.
`
` MR. BOYER: No, if he -- whether he
`
` did or didn't perform prior art searches, and the
`
` work he did in support of his work here is work
`
` product protected, it's privileged.
`
` If you want to ask him about his
`
` opinions, you can ask him about that as they're
`
` provided in the declaration.
`
` MR. COWELL: I'll ask him what I see
`
` fit to ask him, but thanks for your advice.
`
` MR. BOYER: You're welcome.
`
` BY MR. COWELL:
`
`TransPerfect Legal Solutions
`212-400-8845 - Depo@TransPerfect.com
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`Jawbone's Exhibit No. 2008, IPR2022-01124
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` Q. Outside of your work in this case,
`
` have you ever seen the Elko reference before?
`
` A. Outside of my work on this IPR, have
`
` I seen Elko before?
`
` Q. Yes.
`
` A. Yes, I have seen Elko before.
`
` Q. And what context, outside of your
`
` work on this IPR, have you seen Elko?
`
` A. It was on another IPR matter.
`
` Q. Do you recall which IPR that was?
`
` A. I don't.
`
` Q. Do you recall who your client was in
`
` that case?
`
` A. No, I'm sorry. I don't remember.
`
` Q. Outside of your work in this IPR,
`
` have you ever seen the Boll reference before?
`
` A. I don't believe so.
`
` Q. And when I say Elko and Boll, you
`
` know to which I'm referring, right? It's the prior
`
` art you relied on in this case, correct?
`
` A. I assume you mean the '844 Elko and
`
` the Boll reference th
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