·1· · · · ·UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
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`·2· · · · · BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
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`·3· ·_____________________________________________________
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`·4· · · · · · · ·SAMSUNG ELECTRONICS CO., LTD.,
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`· · · · · · · · · · · · · Petitioner,
`·6
`· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·v.
`·7
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`·8· · · · · · · SMART MOBILE TECHNOLOGIES, LLC,
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`·9· · · · · · · · · · · ·Patent Owner.
`· · ·_____________________________________________________
`10
`· · · · ·Case IPR2022-01004 (US Patent No. 9,614,943)
`11· ·_____________________________________________________
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`12· · · · · · · ·VIDEOCONFERENCE DEPOSITION OF
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`13· · · · · · · · · ·DR. TODOR V. COOKLEV
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`· · · · · · · · · · · · ·JUNE 12, 2023
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`· · · · · · Page 1 - 107· · · ·8:07 a.m. - 12:22 PST
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`18· ·REPORTED BY:
`· · ·Tamara L. Houston
`19· ·CA CSR No. 7244, RPR, CCRR No. 140
`· · ·Job Number 23-124488
`20· ·Ref. 39843-0128IP1
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`SAMSUNG 1049
`SAMSUNG v. SMART MOBILE
`IPR2022-01004
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`1
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`·2· · · · · BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
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`·3· ·_____________________________________________________
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`·4· · · · · · · ·SAMSUNG ELECTRONICS CO., LTD.,
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`· · · · · · · · · · · · · Petitioner,
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`· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·v.
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`·8· · · · · · · SMART MOBILE TECHNOLOGIES, LLC,
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`·9· · · · · · · · · · · ·Patent Owner.
`· · ·_____________________________________________________
`10
`· · · · ·Case IPR2022-01004 (US Patent No. 9,614,943)
`11· ·_____________________________________________________
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`12· · · · · · · ·VIDEOCONFERENCE DEPOSITION OF
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`13· · · · · · · · · ·DR. TODOR V. COOKLEV
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`14
`· · · · · · · · · · · · ·JUNE 12, 2023
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`· · · · · · Page 1 - 107· · · ·8:07 a.m. - 12:22 PST
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`18· ·REPORTED BY:
`· · ·Tamara L. Houston
`19· ·CA CSR No. 7244, RPR, CCRR No. 140
`· · ·Job Number 23-124488
`20· ·Ref. 39843-0128IP1
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`SAMSUNG 1049
`SAMSUNG v. SMART MOBILE
`IPR2022-01004
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`1
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`·4· · · · · · · · · REMOTE VIDEOCONFERENCE DEPOSITION OF
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`·5· ·DR. TODOR V. COOKLEV, taken on behalf of the
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`·6· ·Petitioner, commencing from 8:07 a.m. to 12:22 p.m.,
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`·7· ·Monday, June 12, 2023, before Tamara L. Houston, CSR
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`·8· ·No. 7244, CCRR, RPR.
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`·1· ·APPEARANCE OF COUNSEL:
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`·2
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`·3· · · · On behalf of the Petitioner:
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`·4· · · · · · ·FISH & RICHARDSON, P.C.
`· · · · · · · ·BY:· AAMIR KAZI, ESQ.
`·5· · · · · · · · · SANGKI PARK, ESQ.
`· · · · · · · ·1180 Peachtree Street, NE, 21st Floor
`·6· · · · · · ·Atlanta, Georgia 30309
`· · · · · · · ·kazi@fr.com
`·7· · · · · · ·spark@fr.com
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`·8
`· · · · · On behalf of the Patent Owner and Witness:
`·9
`· · · · · · · ·GRAVES & SHAW LLP
`10· · · · · · ·BY:· STEVE UDICK, ESQ.
`· · · · · · · · · · PHILIP GRAVES, ESQ.
`11· · · · · · ·355 S. Grand Avenue
`· · · · · · · ·Suite 2450
`12· · · · · · ·Los Angeles, California 90071
`· · · · · · · ·(213) 204-5101
`13· · · · · · ·pgraves@gravesshaw.com
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`·1· · · · · · · · · INDEX TO EXAMINATION
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`·2· · · · · · · WITNESS:· DR. TODOR V. COOKLEV
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`·3· ·EXAMINATIONS· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·PAGE
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`·4· ·Mr. Gree.......................................· ·6
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`·7· · · · · ·QUESTIONS INSTRUCTED NOT TO ANSWER
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`·8· · · · · · · · · · ·Page· · ·Line
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`·9· · · · · · · · · · · · · NONE
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`·1· · · · · · · · · · ·INDEX TO EXHIBITS
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`·2· · · · · · · · · ·DR. TODOR V. COOKLEV
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`·3· · · SAMSUNG ELECTRONICS CO,. LTD. vs. SMART MOBILE
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`·4· · · · · · · · · · · ·JUNE 12, 2023
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`·5· · ·Tamara L. Houston, CSR No. 7244, CRR No. 140, RPR
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`·6
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`·7· · EXHIBIT· · · · · · ·DESCRIPTION
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`·8· ·PAGE
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`·9· · · · · · · · · · · · · --o0o--
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`10· · · · · · · · · ·(No exhibits marked.)
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`·1· · · · · · · MONDAY, JUNE 12, 2023, 8:07 a.m.
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`·2· · · · · · · · · · · · · --o0o--
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`·3· · · · · · · ·All counsel present stipulate
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`·4· · · · · that the witness shall be sworn remotely
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`·5· · · · · · · · · ·by the court reporter
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`·6· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·* * *
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`·7· · · · · · · · · Whereupon, DR. TODOR V. COOKLEV,
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`·8· · · · · · · · · having been called as a witness was
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`·9· · · · · · · · · duly sworn to tell the truth, the
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`10· · · · · · · · · whole truth, and nothing but the truth
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`11· · · · · · · · · testified as follows: Job number
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`12· · · · · · · · · · · · · · --o0o--
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`13· · · · · · · · EXAMINATION BY MR. GREEN:
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`14· ·BY MR. GREEN:
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`15· · · · Q.· ·Good evening, Dr. Cooklev.· My name is
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`16· ·Christopher Green.· We met in the moments before the
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`17· ·deposition began.· As I believe you understand, I am
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`18· ·an attorney who represents Samsung in this
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`19· ·proceeding.· Thank you for appearing for the
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`20· ·deposition today.
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`21· · · · · · ·If I may, I know you've been deposed a
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`22· ·number of times in your career, but I'd like to ask a
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`23· ·couple of things just to establish our protocols and
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`24· ·procedures for today's deposition.· We have to do
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`25· ·them -- some of them every time, so let's begin now.
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`6
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`·1· · · · · · ·The first one is I -- I believe you
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`·2· ·understand that the oath you just took is the same
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`·3· ·that you would take if you were appearing in an
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`·4· ·actual court of law in front of a judge or a jury,
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`·5· ·and it carries the same weight.
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`·6· · · · · · ·Can we share that understanding?
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`·7· · · · A.· ·Yes.
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`·8· · · · Q.· ·Thank you.· Also, it bears repeating for
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`·9· ·myself, at least, that our friend, the court
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`10· ·reporter, is doing her very best to transcribe every
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`11· ·single word that is said during the deposition.· We
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`12· ·can help her with that immensely if you will do your
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`13· ·best to refrain from answering before I finish my
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`14· ·question.· In return, I need to wait until your
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`15· ·answer is finished before I ask another question.
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`16· · · · · · ·Can we cooperate with each other to -- to
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`17· ·help, you know, create the best, cleanest transcript
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`18· ·we can?
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`19· · · · A.· ·Yes.
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`20· · · · Q.· ·Thank you.· Also, during the course of the
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`21· ·deposition, your attorney may make some objections.
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`22· ·Those are procedural matters.· They are not intended
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`23· ·to prevent you from answering questions.· If a
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`24· ·question is asked and you give an answer, may I
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`25· ·understand that you did so in accordance with the
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`7
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`·1· ·oath that you took?
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`·2· · · · A.· ·Yes.
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`·3· · · · Q.· ·Okay.· And if you need a clarification for
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`·4· ·a question, will you ask for it at that time?
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`·5· · · · A.· ·Yes.· If -- it is my understanding that if
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`·6· ·I don't understand the question, I can ask for a
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`·7· ·clarification.
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`·8· · · · Q.· ·True.· Maybe it is more directed -- if I
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`·9· ·ask a question and you give me an answer, may I
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`10· ·understand that you answered the question truthfully
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`11· ·in accordance with the oath and that you had an
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`12· ·understanding of the question?
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`13· · · · A.· ·Yes, I confirm.
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`14· · · · Q.· ·Okay.· Do you need anything before we begin
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`15· ·the deposition today?· For example, I know that we're
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`16· ·working across multiple time zones today.· Is there a
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`17· ·particular time when you might need a break?· You
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`18· ·don't need to give me an explanation or a rationale.
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`19· ·I'll do my best to accommodate.· If it's just to eat
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`20· ·or to rest or to take a phone call, something like
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`21· ·that, just let me know a little in advance, and I can
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`22· ·plan for it.
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`23· · · · A.· ·Thank you, Counsel.
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`24· · · · Q.· ·Okay.· In terms of what we are working with
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`25· ·today, do you have any materials present with you at
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`·1· ·the deposition -- at the place where you are
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`·2· ·appearing for the deposition?· Materials relating to
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`·3· ·this proceeding, I mean.
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`·4· · · · A.· ·Well, I will explain.· Obviously I am using
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`·5· ·my computer, and on my computer, there are a lot of
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`·6· ·documents, but the only thing that I have open right
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`·7· ·now is the '943 patent.· It's an unmarked copy, but I
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`·8· ·can close it, and I can work with an exhibit.· Either
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`·9· ·way is fine.
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`10· · · · Q.· ·That's not necessary.· What I would ask is
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`11· ·this:· First, that you confirm there's no one else
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`12· ·present in the room with you?
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`13· · · · A.· ·There is no one else present in the room.
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`14· · · · Q.· ·Okay.· And that you are not using any
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`15· ·application or other means to communicate with
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`16· ·someone while we are on the record?
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`17· · · · A.· ·I am not.
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`18· · · · Q.· ·And the next thing is that if you have
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`19· ·materials with you that you reference while you are
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`20· ·answering a question, that you acknowledge for me
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`21· ·what that is.· For example, if you have a copy of the
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`22· ·patent or your declaration or some other item that is
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`23· ·being used to refresh your recollection or to provide
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`24· ·information that you are using to help formulate your
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`25· ·answer, please acknowledge that for me at the time
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`9
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`·1· ·you're doing it.
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`·2· · · · A.· ·I will be -- I will be clarifying what
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`·3· ·materials I'm using.· I do not have with me any paper
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`·4· ·copies of anything.
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`·5· · · · Q.· ·Very well.· Thank you for your cooperation.
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`·6· ·All right.
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`·7· · · · · · ·Okay.· So, Dr. Cooklev, I understand that
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`·8· ·you have read and I believe understand or have formed
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`·9· ·a number of opinions about the '943 patent; is that
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`10· ·fair?
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`11· · · · A.· ·Yes.
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`12· · · · Q.· ·And you're aware that the '943 patent is
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`13· ·part of a larger family of patents?
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`14· · · · A.· ·I'm aware that the '943 patent is part of a
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`15· ·group of patents that have been a circuit.
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`16· · · · Q.· ·And have you read -- have you read, and to
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`17· ·your own understanding, do you have a grasp of what
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`18· ·is taught in this family of patents to which the '943
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`19· ·belongs?
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`20· · · · A.· ·Gen- -- I mean, I am familiar -- I am
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`21· ·familiar with the '943 patent in particular for which
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`22· ·I prepared for today, but -- and, yes, I am familiar
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`23· ·with what the '943 patent and the rest of the patents
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`24· ·are about.
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`25· · · · Q.· ·All right.· I believe from reading your
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`10
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`·1· ·declaration that you have expressed an opinion as to
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`·2· ·what level of education and experience would
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`·3· ·constitute a person of ordinary skill in this art; is
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`·4· ·that fair?
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`·5· · · · · · ·MR. UDICK:· Objection to form.
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`·6· · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· I mean, I -- we can certainly
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`·7· ·take a look.· I might have -- I might have applied
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`·8· ·the definition.
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`·9· ·BY MR. GREEN:
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`10· · · · Q.· ·I'm glad for you to look at your
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`11· ·declaration if you need it.
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`12· · · · A.· ·Okay.
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`13· · · · Q.· ·My question is not for you to tell me what
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`14· ·the definition is from memory or anything like that.
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`15· ·I'm -- I am at this point merely asking the
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`16· ·following:· Do you recall forming an opinion as to
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`17· ·what level of education and experience would be
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`18· ·required for a person to qualify as a person of
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`19· ·ordinary skill in this art?
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`20· · · · A.· ·I do recall that I address this question in
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`21· ·my declaration.
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`22· · · · Q.· ·Very well.· And as we sit here today, would
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`23· ·it be your opinion that you, yourself, were a person
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`24· ·at least of ordinary skill as of the relevant
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`25· ·timeframes for the '943 patent?
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`11
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`·1· · · · A.· ·Yes.
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`·2· · · · Q.· ·Okay.· And at the time of -- let's put it
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`·3· ·this way.· In the late 1990s, were you familiar with
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`·4· ·the operation of cellular telephone networks?
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`·5· · · · · · ·MR. UDICK:· Objection to form.
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`·6· · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· And I was familiar with a
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`·7· ·number of aspects, and based on this, I can say yes.
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`·8· ·BY MR. GREEN:
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`·9· · · · Q.· ·Okay.· Is one of -- well, withdrawn.
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`10· · · · · · ·What were some aspects of cellular
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`11· ·telephone networks that you were familiar with as of
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`12· ·the late 1990s?
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`13· · · · A.· ·For example, I was familiar with the GSM --
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`14· ·the GSM standard and a number of details regarding
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`15· ·the operation of the GSM standard.· I was also
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`16· ·familiar with the -- with the standard called IS-95,
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`17· ·which was a North American standard.· And I -- I was
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`18· ·familiar with a number of techniques -- signal
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`19· ·processing techniques that -- that were used.· So
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`20· ·these are some of the things that I was familiar with
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`21· ·at the time.
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`22· · · · Q.· ·Very well.· Are you familiar with the use
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`23· ·of encryption in cellular telephone networks as of
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`24· ·the late 1990s?
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`25· · · · A.· ·Encryption.· I was familiar with encryption
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`12
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`·1· ·because of -- during the 1990s, I did some research
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`·2· ·in -- research related to --
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`·3· · · · · · ·(Whereupon the court reporter requested
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`·4· ·clarification.)
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`·5· · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· -- abstract algebra and
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`·6· ·number theory as with applications -- with
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`·7· ·applications including applications in encryption and
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`·8· ·also algorithms related to these with applications in
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`·9· ·encryption.· I do not exactly recall right now being
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`10· ·familiar with encryption specifically for cellular
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`11· ·telephone systems.
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`12· ·BY MR. GREEN:
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`13· · · · Q.· ·To your knowledge, was encryption or
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`14· ·encryption techniques used in cellular telephone
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`15· ·networks as of 1999?
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`16· · · · A.· ·Excuse me.· I did not get the question.
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`17· · · · Q.· ·No problem at all.
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`18· · · · · · ·From your recollection, was the technique
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`19· ·of data encryption used in cellular telephone
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`20· ·networks as of 1999?
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`21· · · · A.· ·You know, I do not -- do not remember right
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`22· ·now.
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`23· · · · Q.· ·Do you recall whether any specifications or
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`24· ·protocols for cellular telephone communication that
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`25· ·existed as of 1999 incorporated any description of
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`13
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`·1· ·data encryption?
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`·2· · · · A.· ·No.· At the moment, I do not recall whether
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`·3· ·any protocols for cellular telephony just referenced
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`·4· ·encryption.· I just -- at the moment, I just do not
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`·5· ·recall.
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`·6· · · · Q.· ·Are you familiar with any form of wireless
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`·7· ·network that existed as of 1999 and that incorporated
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`·8· ·data encryption?
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`·9· · · · A.· ·What kind of encryption?
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`10· · · · Q.· ·Data encryption.
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`11· · · · A.· ·Better?
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`12· · · · Q.· ·Data.
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`13· · · · A.· ·Oh, data encryption.
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`14· · · · · · ·No.· I do not remember as far as the late
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`15· ·'90s.
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`16· · · · Q.· ·Okay.· As we sit here today, do you have
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`17· ·any recollection of any form of wireless network that
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`18· ·existed after 1999 incorporating data encryption?
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`19· · · · · · ·MR. UDICK:· Objection to form.
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`20· · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· No.· I -- I just -- I do not
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`21· ·recall at the moment.· I think my recollection as far
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`22· ·as data encryption being used in wireless networks
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`23· ·starts around 2001 -- the 2001 timeframe.· It's
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`24· ·just -- it's just at the moment my recollection.
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`25· ·BY MR. GREEN:
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`14
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`·1· · · · Q.· ·Okay.· Are you familiar with any form of
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`·2· ·communication networks that existed as of 1999 and
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`·3· ·that incorporated data encryption?
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`·4· · · · A.· ·No.· I -- I -- I do not recall -- I don't
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`·5· ·think I have opined on this, and sitting here right
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`·6· ·now, I cannot recall any wireless networks that used
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`·7· ·data encryption.
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`·8· · · · Q.· ·Okay.· But just to clarify, my question was
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`·9· ·this:· Do you recall any form of communication
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`10· ·network, wireless or otherwise, that incorporated
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`11· ·data encryption as of 1999?
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`12· · · · · · ·MR. UDICK:· Objection to form.
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`13· · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· Any recollection would be --
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`14· ·sitting here right now would be vague for me to give
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`15· ·you a -- to give you any formed answer right now
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`16· ·under oath.· I just do not recall.
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`17· ·BY MR. GREEN:
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`18· · · · Q.· ·Can you remind me what type of work you did
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`19· ·relating to data encryption at the earlier time in
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`20· ·your career, specifically during the 1990s?
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`21· · · · A.· ·Yes.· So one approach to encryption is
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`22· ·based on multiplying two numbers and a -- you know,
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`23· ·appropriately chosen.· So I worked on fast algorithms
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`24· ·for -- for multiplication of -- as used in
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`25· ·encryption.· And encryption also -- and what was also
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`·1· ·important is that it is factorization, the inverse
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`·2· ·problem of multiplication that factorization is -- is
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`·3· ·hard.
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`·4· · · · · · ·And so my work was on -- centered on fast
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`·5· ·algorithms and the application of -- of innovative
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`·6· ·number theory in these algorithms.
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`·7· · · · Q.· ·So would you agree with me that there
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`·8· ·existed numerous algorithms for performing different
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`·9· ·types of data encryption as of 1999?
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`10· · · · · · ·MR. UDICK:· Objection to form.
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`11· · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· Would I agree that there
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`12· ·existed numerous algorithms?
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`13· ·BY MR. GREEN:
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`14· · · · Q.· ·I mean, in a -- let me withdraw that
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`15· ·question, if I may, and ask a better question, or at
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`16· ·least a different one.
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`17· · · · · · ·The approach that you just described for
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`18· ·performing data encryption, that was not the only
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`19· ·technique for performing data encryption that existed
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`20· ·as of 1999; is that fair?
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`21· · · · A.· ·I think that's fair.
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`22· · · · Q.· ·Okay.· And would it be fair to say that
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`23· ·there were numerous types of data encryption
`
`24· ·techniques that existed as of 1999?
`
`25· · · · A.· ·I think in a -- in a certain sense, that
`
`16
`
`
`
`·1· ·would be a fair statement.
`
`·2· · · · Q.· ·What is the purpose of performing data
`
`·3· ·encryption?
`
`·4· · · · · · ·MR. UDICK:· Objection to form.
`
`·5· · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· So I will -- will -- first, I
`
`·6· ·would say that -- just to give a little more context,
`
`·7· ·that I -- I don't recall opining on this, but I will
`
`·8· ·try to give you an answer right now.
`
`·9· · · · · · ·So as a general idea -- and I don't want to
`
`10· ·give definitions or anything like that, but as a
`
`11· ·general idea, the purpose of encryption is to make
`
`12· ·sure that only the intended recipient can make sense
`
`13· ·of what is being sent.
`
`14· ·BY MR. GREEN:
`
`15· · · · Q.· ·So when you say is the purpose of
`
`16· ·encryption is to make sure that only the recipient
`
`17· ·can make sense of what is being sent, are you
`
`18· ·referring to using data encryption as a form of
`
`19· ·security?
`
`20· · · · · · ·MR. UDICK:· Objection to form.
`
`21· · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· I think -- I think in a
`
`22· ·certain sense we can say that.
`
`23· ·BY MR. GREEN:
`
`24· · · · Q.· ·Okay.· And earlier when we were discussing
`
`25· ·data encryption and work you had yourself performed
`
`17
`
`
`
`·1· ·related to data encryption, you described a number of
`
`·2· ·mathematical operations or mathematical techniques.
`
`·3· · · · · · ·Did I understand that correctly?
`
`·4· · · · A.· ·Yes.
`
`·5· · · · Q.· ·Okay.· Is it necessary to form mathematical
`
`·6· ·operations or computations to implement at least some
`
`·7· ·forms of data encryption?
`
`·8· · · · · · ·MR. UDICK:· Objection.· Form and scope.
`
`·9· · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· Yes.· To the -- the way that
`
`10· ·I understand the question, yes, mathematical
`
`11· ·operations -- some mathematical operations are
`
`12· ·generally necessary in performing encryption.
`
`13· ·BY MR. GREEN:
`
`14· · · · Q.· ·Okay.· Did a computerized system with
`
`15· ·electronic components -- well, withdrawn.
`
`16· · · · · · ·What types of electronic components perform
`
`17· ·the mathematical operations or algorithms that are
`
`18· ·necessary to implement data encryption?
`
`19· · · · · · ·MR. UDICK:· Objection to form and scope.
`
`20· ·BY MR. GREEN:
`
`21· · · · Q.· ·You may answer.
`
`22· · · · A.· ·The electronic components that perform
`
`23· ·these operations, there -- there could be several
`
`24· ·types.· One type is as part of a dedicated digital
`
`25· ·chip.
`
`18
`
`
`
`·1· · · · Q.· ·I don't know if you're finished.· I don't
`
`·2· ·want to have an incredibly awkward silence for too
`
`·3· ·long.
`
`·4· · · · A.· ·I'm done with -- I'm done with the answer.
`
`·5· · · · Q.· ·Okay.· So when you say there could be
`
`·6· ·several types of electronic components that perform
`
`·7· ·the mathematical operations associated with
`
`·8· ·encryption and one of those types is a dedicated
`
`·9· ·digital chip, what are some other types of electronic
`
`10· ·components?
`
`11· · · · · · ·MR. UDICK:· Objection to form.
`
`12· · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· Just as another example,
`
`13· ·encryption can be implemented in software.
`
`14· ·BY MR. GREEN:
`
`15· · · · Q.· ·In addition to dedicated digital chips and
`
`16· ·software, what other types of components can perform
`
`17· ·data encryption?
`
`18· · · · · · ·MR. UDICK:· Objection to form and scope.
`
`19· · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· Well, although -- I -- I
`
`20· ·don't want to say that there are no other types. I
`
`21· ·mean, I -- just in general there could be some other
`
`22· ·types, but I think these are two main ones.
`
`23· ·BY MR. GREEN:
`
`24· · · · Q.· ·Okay.· When persons of ordinary skill in
`
`25· ·the art use the term "processor," is a processor a
`
`19
`
`
`
`·1· ·form of a dedicated digital chip in some
`
`·2· ·applications?
`
`·3· · · · · · ·MR. UDICK:· Objection to form and scope.
`
`·4· · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· A processor is not considered
`
`·5· ·a dedicated digital chip because a dedicated chip is
`
`·6· ·dedicated for -- for one particular task.· That's --
`
`·7· ·that is the dedicated part.· And a processor, in
`
`·8· ·general, is -- is more versatile.
`
`·9· ·BY MR. GREEN:
`
`10· · · · Q.· ·Is a processor a form of digital chip?
`
`11· · · · A.· ·It is a processor digital chip -- it -- a
`
`12· ·processor is a digital chip.
`
`13· · · · Q.· ·Okay.· Are there some forms of processors
`
`14· ·that incorporate functionality for performing data
`
`15· ·encryption among other tasks?
`
`16· · · · · · ·MR. UDICK:· Objection to form and scope.
`
`17· · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· Well, is your question
`
`18· ·related to the 1999 timeframe?
`
`19· ·BY MR. GREEN:
`
`20· · · · Q.· ·That's a fair clarification.· Please allow
`
`21· ·me to incorporate that into my question.
`
`22· · · · · · ·As of 1999, were there processors that were
`
`23· ·capable of forming -- performing multiple types of
`
`24· ·tasks?
`
`25· · · · · · ·MR. UDICK:· Objection to form and scope.
`
`20
`
`
`
`·1· · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· Well, as far as multiple
`
`·2· ·tasks, just in the general sense, yes, processors
`
`·3· ·were -- around 1999, they were capable of more than
`
`·4· ·one task.
`
`·5· ·BY MR. GREEN:
`
`·6· · · · Q.· ·Am I correct that as of 1999, persons of
`
`·7· ·ordinary skill understood that, when designing an
`
`·8· ·electronic system, they could choose from both
`
`·9· ·general-purpose processors and dedicated or
`
`10· ·application-specific processors?
`
`11· · · · · · ·MR. UDICK:· Objection.· Form and scope.
`
`12· · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· First, I -- I think the term
`
`13· ·is "application-specific integrated circuits."
`
`14· ·BY MR. GREEN:
`
`15· · · · Q.· ·Like ASIC, I believe you mean.
`
`16· · · · A.· ·Right.· ASIC or ASIC.· I think that's the
`
`17· ·term.
`
`18· · · · Q.· ·Let me withdraw then and ask a more
`
`19· ·specific question that doesn't set up any potential
`
`20· ·misunderstanding about terminology.
`
`21· · · · · · ·Am I correct -- my question is this:· Am I
`
`22· ·correct that as of 1999 individuals designing
`
`23· ·electronic communication systems could choose from
`
`24· ·general-purpose processors and processors dedicated
`
`25· ·to a specific purpose to implement the features and
`
`21
`
`
`
`·1· ·functions of the system?
`
`·2· · · · · · ·MR. UDICK:· Objection to form and scope.
`
`·3· · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· As far as the terms,
`
`·4· ·certainly general-purpose processors processors were
`
`·5· ·known in 1999.· The application-specific integrated
`
`·6· ·circuits or, as I said earlier, dedicated digital
`
`·7· ·chips just for -- to avoid confusion, at least they
`
`·8· ·were not referred to as a processor.· But they were
`
`·9· ·an alternative digital technology.
`
`10· ·BY MR. GREEN:
`
`11· · · · Q.· ·ASICs or dedicated digital chips, as you're
`
`12· ·referring to them, they existed as of 1999?
`
`13· · · · · · ·MR. UDICK:· Objection.· Scope.
`
`14· · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· And, Counsel, I'm -- I'm
`
`15· ·doing my best to answer truthfully all questions.
`
`16· ·Obviously questions which I have not opined, I just
`
`17· ·need a little -- just a moment to think.
`
`18· ·BY MR. GREEN:
`
`19· · · · Q.· ·It's okay.· You may take the moment if you
`
`20· ·need it.· And I'll re-ask my question so it's clear
`
`21· ·and you have it in your mind so that you can use your
`
`22· ·best recollection, which is all I can ask for.
`
`23· · · · · · ·So here is my question:· As a person who
`
`24· ·has some significant education and experience in this
`
`25· ·field and who was a person of at least ordinary skill
`
`22
`
`
`
`·1· ·as of 1999, do you recall the existence of
`
`·2· ·application-specific integrated processors or
`
`·3· ·dedicated digital chips, as you have called them, as
`
`·4· ·of 1999?
`
`·5· · · · · · ·MR. UDICK:· Same objection.
`
`·6· · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· I -- I relate -- to the best
`
`·7· ·of my recollection right now, I think
`
`·8· ·application-specific integrated circuits did exist in
`
`·9· ·1999.· And, again, it is my -- it is my best
`
`10· ·recollection right now.
`
`11· ·BY MR. GREEN:
`
`12· · · · Q.· ·Okay.· Are you familiar, generally, with
`
`13· ·how persons of ordinary skill in the art created
`
`14· ·schematics or diagrams of electronic systems as of
`
`15· ·1999?
`
`16· · · · A.· ·Schematics.· Well, regarding schematics, I
`
`17· ·think I -- I was familiar --
`
`18· · · · Q.· ·You were --
`
`19· · · · A.· ·-- sufficiently to say that, yes, I was
`
`20· ·familiar with this.
`
`21· · · · Q.· ·Okay.· All right.· May I ask another
`
`22· ·question then about schematics or diagrams?
`
`23· · · · A.· ·Sure.
`
`24· · · · Q.· ·Well, okay.· Before I do it, it may be
`
`25· ·worth noting that as someone that suffered through
`
`23
`
`
`
`·1· ·electronic school myself, it's almost impossible to
`
`·2· ·have a conversation with an electrical engineer and
`
`·3· ·not use the word "scheme" or "schematic," but -- and
`
`·4· ·we've proven that today, I think.
`
`·5· · · · · · ·So with that, let me -- let me go on and
`
`·6· ·ask this question.· My question is this:· If a person
`
`·7· ·of ordinary skill in the 1999 timeframe were
`
`·8· ·designing an electronic system and that system had
`
`·9· ·features or functions that required an
`
`10· ·application-specific integrated processor or one of
`
`11· ·these dedicated digital chips, as you would call
`
`12· ·them, would you expect that person to have called it
`
`13· ·out on the diagram or the schematic for the system so
`
`14· ·that others trying to implement the system would know
`
`15· ·that component was needed?
`
`16· · · · · · ·MR. UDICK:· Objection to form and scope.
`
`17· · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· And maybe -- I was trying to
`
`18· ·listen very carefully.· Not sure if it was the audio
`
`19· ·or the question was a little bit long.· I would ask
`
`20· ·the question to be repeated, please.
`
`21· ·BY MR. GREEN:
`
`22· · · · Q.· ·Of course.· Let me try to simplify the
`
`23· ·question.
`
`24· · · · · · ·In a situation where a person of ordinary
`
`25· ·skill -- perhaps an engineer -- is designing a system
`
`24
`
`
`
`·1· ·that requires a very particular type of component
`
`·2· ·such as an application-specific integrated circuit,
`
`·3· ·would you normally expect that person to call out the
`
`·4· ·need or the presence for that ASIC on the schematics
`
`·5· ·and diagrams that go with the system?
`
`·6· · · · · · ·MR. UDICK:· Same objections.
`
`·7· · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· You know, I think the
`
`·8· ·accurate answer is that not in all circumstances.
`
`·9· ·BY MR. GREEN:
`
`10· · · · Q.· ·Okay.· Earlier you mentioned that data
`
`11· ·encryption can be performed by software -- or in
`
`12· ·software; is that fair?
`
`13· · · · A.· ·Yes.
`
`14· · · · Q.· ·On what types of electronic components are
`
`15· ·the instructions embedded in software for data
`
`16· ·encryption performed?
`
`17· · · · · · ·MR. UDICK:· Objection to form and scope.
`
`18· · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· It could be a general purpose
`
`19· ·process.
`
`20· ·BY MR. GREEN:
`
`21· · · · Q.· ·Okay.· Okay.· Earlier you mentioned, I
`
`22· ·think, what we agreed to be security as one benefit
`
`23· ·of performing data encryption.
`
`24· · · · · · ·Can you think of other benefits that go
`
`25· ·along with performing data encryption, particularly
`
`25
`
`
`
`·1· ·in communication networks?
`
`·2· · · · · · ·MR. UDICK:· Objection to form and scope.
`
`·3· · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· You know, I think -- and
`
`·4· ·first -- and we'll set security in a certain sense.
`
`·5· ·It is -- it is security, and I think it's a big one.
`
`·6· ·At the moment, I cannot think of any other benefits.
`
`·7· ·BY MR. GREEN:
`
`·8· · · · Q.· ·As we sit here today, are you familiar with
`
`·9· ·any communication systems where the transmitter --
`
`10· ·well, withdrawn.
`
`11· · · · · · ·As we sit here today, are you familiar with
`
`12· ·any communication systems that existed as of -- I'm
`
`13· ·sorry, my question -- let me re-ask.
`
`14· · · · · · ·My question is this:· As we sit here today,
`
`15· ·are you familiar with any wireless communication
`
`16· ·systems that existed as of 1999 where data encryption
`
`17· ·was performed by the transmitter component?
`
`18· · · · A.· ·I think I -- I think I answered that I --
`
`19· ·right now, I do not recall specific examples of
`
`20· ·communication systems performing encryption around
`
`21· ·1999.· It's just because I did not investigate, and
`
`22· ·so I cannot right now say whether the transmitter was
`
`23· ·doing encryption.
`
`24· · · · Q.· ·As we sit here today, are you familiar with
`
`25· ·any communication systems that existed as of 1999
`
`26
`
`
`
`·1· ·where the receiver component was the component
`
`·2· ·responsible for performing data encryption?
`
`·3· · · · · · ·MR. UDICK:· Objection to form and scope.
`
`·4· · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· Generally, again, my answer
`
`·5· ·would be that I just don't recall investigating this,
`
`·6· ·and when -- when -- if and when necessary, I can
`
`·7· ·investigate this.· But right now, I do not recall any
`
`·8· ·examples, and I'm not aware of the receivers
`
`·9· ·performing the appropriate pro- -- the appropriate
`
`10· ·processing in connection with encryption.
`
`11· ·BY MR. GREEN:
`
`12· · · · Q.· ·As we -- for systems that exist as of 1999,
`
`13· ·are there any particular reasons why data encryption
`
`14· ·would have been performed in components other than
`
`15· ·the transmitter or the receiver?
`
`16· · · · · · ·MR. UDICK:· Objection to form and scope.
`
`17· · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· Well, for your question,
`
`18· ·it's -- you know, it depends how do we define the
`
`19· ·transmitter and the receiver and what -- what do they
`
`20· ·include?
`
`21· ·BY MR. GREEN:
`
`22· · · · Q.· ·What do you mean?
`
`23· · · · A.· ·Well, I mean that the answer to your
`
`24· ·question depends on what -- what do we consider as
`
`25· ·the transmitter and what do we consider as the
`
`27
`
`
`
`·1· ·receiver?· But it's possible that -- at least
`
`·2· ·conceptually, it's possible that encryption is
`
`·3· ·performed by another component.
`
`·4· · · · Q.· ·When you say it's conceptually possible
`
`·5· ·that encryption is performed by another component, do
`
`·6· ·you mean another component besides the transmitter
`
`·7· ·and the receiver?
`
`·8· · · · A.· ·Excuse me.· I didn't -- another component
`
`·9· ·does what?
`
`10· · · · Q.· ·I'm not limiting you -- when you describe
`
`11· ·that it's possible that -- at least conceptually
`
`12· ·possible that encryption is performed by another
`
`13· ·component, did you mean another component to refer to
`
`14· ·something other than a transmitter or a receiver?
`
`15· · · · A.· ·Yes.
`
`16· · · · Q.· ·All right.· Thank you.· I was just trying
`
`17· ·to make sure I was following along.· Perfect.
`
`18· · · · · · ·All right.· Do you have a copy of the Byrne
`
`19· ·reference, B-Y-R-N-E?
`
`20· · · · A.· ·I do.
`
`21· · · · Q.· ·Okay.· So for the record, the Byrne
`
`22· ·reference was previously marked as Exhibit 1008. I
`
`23· ·will understand that you are looking at your
`
`24· ·electronic copy, which is unannotated and unmarked;
`
`25· ·is that fair?
`
`28
`
`
`
`·1· · · · A.· ·Yes.· That is fair.· My electronic copy is
`
`·2· ·unmarked.· I'm looking at Exhibit 1008, which is
`
`·3· ·Byrne's.
`
`·4· · · · Q.· ·Would you look at Column 8, lines 29
`
`·5· ·through 38 of Byrne, Exhibit 1008, please?
`
`·6· · · · · · ·(Whereupon the court reporter requested
`
`·7· ·clarification.)
`
`·8· ·BY MR. GREEN:
`
`·9· · · · Q.· ·8, lines 29 to 38 of the Byrne reference,
`
`10· ·which is Exhibit 1008.
`
`11· · · · A.· ·I am there.
`
`12· · · · Q.· ·Okay.· Would you read into the record the
`
`13· ·sentence that begins, "The microprocessor 210
`
`14· ·controls the CCT 200"?
`
`15· · · · A.· ·"The microprocessor 210 controls the
`
`16· ·CCT 200 in a similar way when operating as a cellular
`
`17· ·telephone but appropriately modified for the
`
`18· ·signaling protocols and data encryption used in the
`
`19· ·cellular system."
`
`20· · · · Q.· ·Okay.· And I believe that next sentence in
`
`21· ·the passage that you just read from Byrne goes on to
`
`22· ·say, "The signaling protocols, data encryption
`
`23· ·techniques, and the like used in respective telephone
`
`24· ·systems are well known in the art, and the
`
`25· ·microprocessor can be arranged to operate in a known
`
`29
`
`
`
`·1· ·manner to affect control of the signals in such
`
`·2· ·systems."
`
`·3· · · · · · ·Do you see that sentence?
`
`·4· · · · A.· ·Yes, I see that.
`
`·5· · · · Q.· ·Okay.· Would you agree with me that the
`
`·6· ·passage in Column 8, lines 29 through 38 of the Byrne
`
`·7· ·reference, describe the performance of data
`
`·8· ·encryption in a cellular communication network?
`
`·9· · · · · · ·MR. UDICK:· Objection to form.
`
`10· ·BY MR. GREEN:
`
`11· · · · Q.· ·Let me be more specific.· Would you agree
`
`12· ·with me that the passage we just read together from
`
`13· ·Column 8, lines 29 through 38 of the Byrne reference,
`
`14· ·describes a mobile device, such as a phone, that
`
`15· ·per
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