`
`Transcript of Michael Allen Jensen,
`Ph.D.
`
`Date: March 20, 2023
`Case: Samsung Electronics Co., Ltd., et al. -v- Smart Mobile Technologies, LLC
`(PTAB)
`
`Planet Depos
`Phone: 888.433.3767
`Email:: transcripts@planetdepos.com
`www.planetdepos.com
`
`WORLDWIDE COURT REPORTING & LITIGATION TECHNOLOGY
`
`Smart Mobile Technologies LLC, Exhibit 2007
`Page 1 of 141
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` UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
` ----------------------
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
` ----------------------
` SAMSUNG ELECTRONICS CO., LTD.
` Petitioner,
` v.
` SMART MOBILE TECHNOLOGIES, LLC
` Patent Owner.
` ----------------------
` Case: IPR2022-01004
` U.S. Patent No. 9,614,943
` ----------------------
`
` Deposition of MICHAEL ALLEN JENSEN, Ph.D.
` Conducted Virtually
` Monday, March 20, 2023
` 9:32 a.m. MT
`
`Job No.: 483544
`Pages: 1 - 110
`Reported by: Stephanie A. Battaglia, CSR, RMR, CRR
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`Transcript of Michael Allen Jensen, Ph.D.
`Conducted on March 20, 2023
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`2
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`PRESENT:
` SKIERMONT DERBY, LLP
` BY: MR. STEVE UDICK
` 1601 Elm Street, Suite 4400
` Dallas, Texas 75201
` (214) 978-6600
` e-mail: sudick@skiermontderby.com
` - and -
` SKIERMONT DERBY, LLP
` BY: MR. REX HWANG
` 633 West Fifth Street, Suite 5800
` Los Angeles, California 90071
` (213) 788-4500
` e-mail: rhwang@skiermontderby.com
` - and -
` GRAVES & SHAW, LLP
` BY: MR. PHILIP GRAVES
` 355 South Grand Avenue, Suite 2450
` Los Angeles, California 90071
` (213) 204-5101
` e-mail: pgraves@gravesshaw.com
` appeared on behalf of the
` Patent Owner Smart Mobile
` Technologies;
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`Transcript of Michael Allen Jensen, Ph.D.
`Conducted on March 20, 2023
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`3
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`(Cont'd.):
` FISH & RICHARDSON
` BY: MR. AAMIR A. KAZI
` 1180 Peachtree NE, 21st Floor
` Atlanta, Georgia 30309
` (404) 724-2811
` e-mail: kazi@fr.com
` - and -
` FISH & RICHARDSON
` BY: MR. SANGKI PARK
` 60 South 6th Street, Suite 3200
` Minneapolis, Minnesota 55402
` (612) 638-5763
` e-mail: spark@fr.com
` appeared on behalf of the
` Petitioner Samsung.
`ALSO PRESENT:
` Mr. Ky Shanklin, Technician
` Planet Depos
` Ms. Stephanie A. Battaglia, CSR, RMR, CRR
` Planet Depos
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`Transcript of Michael Allen Jensen, Ph.D.
`Conducted on March 20, 2023
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`4
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` I N D E X
`
`WITNESS: PAGE:
`Michael Allen Jensen, Ph.D.
`
`EXAMINATION BY:
`Mr. Udick 6
`
` E X H I B I T S
` (Not Attached)
`Exhibit 1001 U.S. Patent No. 9,614,943 87
`Exhibit 1003 Declaration for 9
` Dr. Michael Allen Jensen
`Exhibit 1005 U.S. Patent No. 6,144,711 71
`Exhibit 1006 U.S. Patent No. 5,784,032 55
`Exhibit 1007 WO 98/27748 40
`Exhibit 1008 European Patent Application 16
` Publication No 0 660 626 A2
`Exhibit 1009 U.S. Patent No. 5,594,737 61
`Exhibit 1010 U.S. Patent No 5,590,133 67
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`Transcript of Michael Allen Jensen, Ph.D.
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`5
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` MS. REPORTER: Here begins the
`videoconference deposition of Dr. Michael Jensen
`in the matter of Samsung Electronics versus Smart
`Mobile Technologies.
` Today's date is March 20, 2023 and the
`time is 9:32 a.m., Mountain Time.
` My name is Stephanie Battaglia of
`Planet Depos.
` Beginning with the noticing party, will
`counsel please introduce themselves, state whom
`they represent, and stipulate to the swearing in
`of the witness remotely.
` We will start with Mr. Udick.
` MR. UDICK: This is Steve Udick with the
`firm Skiermont Derby representing Smart Mobile
`Technologies.
` Alongside me is Rex Hwang also of the same
`firm and Philip Graves with Graves Shaw, LLP, and
`we so stipulate.
` MR. KAZI: This is Aamir Kazi with the law
`firm of Fish & Richardson here on behalf of the
`Petitioner Samsung. And also on behalf of the
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`Transcript of Michael Allen Jensen, Ph.D.
`Conducted on March 20, 2023
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`6
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`witness and along with me at this deposition is
`Mr. Sangki Park also of the same law firm, and we
`also stipulate.
` MICHAEL ALLEN JENSEN, Ph.D.,
`called as a witness herein, having been first duly
`sworn was examined and testified via Zoom
`conference as follows:
` EXAMINATION
` BY MR. UDICK:
` Q Good morning, Dr. Jensen.
` A Good morning.
` Q How are you?
` A I am doing well.
` Q Great.
` A Thank you.
` Q We previously had a deposition several
`months ago, correct?
` A That's correct.
` Q And we ran through kind of your background
`and history of how many depos you have had and the
`ground rules as well.
` A Yes, sir.
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`Transcript of Michael Allen Jensen, Ph.D.
`Conducted on March 20, 2023
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`7
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` Q I will just restate some of them.
` Let's continue to make sure, as we did I
`think particularly well in the last deposition,
`that we try not to speak over each other,
`especially in this Zoom world where signals can
`cut when two people speak and the reporter may not
`be able to hear it and, likewise, head nods and
`head gestures for answers, the court reporter
`won't be able to capture that. Does that all make
`sense?
` A Yes.
` Q I will do my best to speak slowly so we
`are not rushing the transcript, and if you will do
`the same in your answers, I think the court
`reporter and the record will greatly appreciate
`that. Is that okay?
` A Yes.
` Q And then as you noticed from last time
`occasionally I will ask questions that make no
`sense to you or you need some further
`understanding. Will you do me that favor if you
`don't understand the question ask me for
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`Transcript of Michael Allen Jensen, Ph.D.
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`8
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`clarification or to repeat it?
` A I will.
` Q And if you do answer the question is it
`okay that I assume that you have understood the
`question that I have asked you?
` A Yes.
` Q Just a couple questions for the record
`that some lawyer made up some time ago and we
`continue to use it now, is there any reason today
`that you are unable to give full and complete and
`honest testimony?
` A No.
` Q Any medications that would impair your
`ability to do so?
` A No.
` Q Great.
` This is the petition for
`U.S. Patent 9,614,943, is that correct?
` A That's my understanding as well, yes.
` Q And with that petition you provided a
`supporting declaration, correct?
` A That's correct.
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`Transcript of Michael Allen Jensen, Ph.D.
`Conducted on March 20, 2023
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`9
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` MR. UDICK: And just so we have the record
`clear, Mr. Shanklin, if you could please put Doc 4
`into the record.
` (Document identified as Exhibit 1003 for
` identification.)
`BY MR. UDICK:
` Q Dr. Jensen, last time you had clean copies
`of the exhibits and the declaration you filed in
`this case. Is that true today as well?
` A Yes.
` Q As we did last time if it's okay with you
`I will mark -- make sure we have on the record
`that the exhibit is what we are both talking about
`the same exhibit, but then feel free to use what
`you have in front of you on your computer soft
`copy as well, is that okay?
` A Yes, that's great.
` Q What we have is the Exhibit 1003 of the
`IPR, which is the declaration of
`Dr. Michael Allen Jensen.
` If the tech can give the witness control
`and then, Dr. Jensen, if you can quickly scroll to
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`Transcript of Michael Allen Jensen, Ph.D.
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`10
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`make sure that what you are looking at here is
`consistent with what you understand to be your
`declaration in the IPR.
` A Based on my quick scroll through that
`appears to be my declaration that I submitted.
` Q Great.
` We can take that down and we can use the
`one that you have a soft copy.
` Dr. Jensen, I will refer to the paragraph
`numbers, if that's easier for you or if you like I
`can give you a page number as well as the
`paragraph as needed.
` First I would like to turn to Paragraph 14
`-- I am sorry, Paragraph 19.
` A Okay.
` Q Here you begin an overview of your
`conclusions formed, is that correct?
` A Yes, sir.
` Q In 21 you list specific references that
`you have reviewed in forming the conclusions and
`the opinions that you have in your declaration, is
`that correct?
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`11
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` A Yes, that's right.
` Q That goes through I guess Page 18?
` A Correct. I mean, on my copy here Page 16,
`you mean the list of references, Page 16?
` Q Yes, 16, I am sorry. I was looking at
`different bullet points that looked like 18,
`sorry.
` A No problem.
` Q And then in 22, it is almost a catchall,
`it is anything else supported in your declaration,
`is that correct?
` A Yes.
` Q Are any of these references references
`that you identified yourself?
` A I mean, yes, as I went through definitely
`several of these references are things that I
`identified myself.
` Q When you say identified yourself, just to
`make sure we are on the same page, they are
`references that you researched and found on your
`own without them previously being provided by
`counsel, is that correct?
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`12
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` A That's what I meant, yes, sir.
` Q Great.
` Do you know if -- let me -- if we go to
`Page 18, 17 and 18, in Paragraph 26 it is a
`summary of your conclusions, the opinions you
`formed and your conclusions in this declaration,
`is that correct?
` A That's correct.
` Q And there is certain references in those
`in each of those bullet points, right?
` A That's correct.
` Q Are any of those references ones that you
`independently found on your own?
` A Those references while I was aware of one
`of them all of those were identified by counsel
`and pointed out to me by counsel.
` Q Which one were you aware of?
` A The Raleigh reference.
` Q And how were you aware of Raleigh?
` MR. KAZI: Objection to the form.
` Sorry, go ahead, Dr. Jensen, objection to
`form.
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`13
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` THE WITNESS: That's primely in my
`research area, especially around the time of its
`disclosure, and so I was aware of what was
`happening in the industry in these multi antenna
`space-time encoding kind of systems including the
`work from Mr. -- Dr. now Raleigh.
`BY MR. UDICK:
` Q In Paragraph 27 you state your
`understanding of what the person of ordinary skill
`in the art is at the time of the invention?
` A Yes.
` Q And that is they would have a Bachelor's
`degree in electrical engineering, computer
`engineering, computer science or related field,
`and at least two years of experience related to
`the design or development of wireless
`communication systems or the equivalent.
` You go on, additional graduate education
`could substitute for professional experience or
`significant experience in the field could
`substitute for formal education, correct?
` A That's correct.
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`Conducted on March 20, 2023
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`14
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` Q And that is -- in our previous deposition
`it was on another patent in the same family, the
`'434 patent, is that correct?
` A That's my recollection, the last time you
`deposed me it was '434.
` Q And that was the same definition of a
`POSITA that you had given in that case, correct?
` A That's my recollection, it was the same
`definition.
` Q Nothing would change about how that person
`of skill in the art, your understanding of what
`they would be aware of and what their capabilities
`were at the time, is that correct?
` A No, I haven't changed my perspectives on
`that.
` Q If you would turn to -- one of the first
`references that your opinions relate to is Byrne,
`is that correct --
` A Yes, sir.
` Q -- as we march through your declaration?
` A That's correct.
` Q And if we would, please turn to Page 39,
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`15
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`Paragraph 69.
` A Okay, I am there.
` Q Does that begin your analysis of Byrne in
`relation to the claims of the '943 patent?
` A Yes.
` Q Byrne is another reference we discussed in
`the '434 deposition, is that correct?
` A At this stage I honestly don't recall.
` Q If it is you wouldn't -- the record is
`what it is as to whether that was Byrne, correct?
` A Absolutely, yes.
` Q I would make the representation that it
`is, but I understand that you have had I think at
`least one other deposition in this collective
`matter so by now there may be some different
`references in different places and you'd like to
`be correct with your memory, I assume.
` A This is actually my fourth deposition in
`this family of depositions so, yes, it gets a
`little jumbled.
` Q Totally understand.
` MR. UDICK: If you would, Mr. Shanklin, if
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`16
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`we can pull up Doc 8, which is Samsung
`Exhibit 1008 in the IPR.
` (Document identified as Exhibit 1008 for
` identification.)
`BY MR. UDICK:
` Q And, Dr. Jensen, like before, take a look
`and make sure this aligns with your understanding
`of what the exhibit Byrne is as well as Samsung
`1008.
` A This is Byrne 1008.
` Q Great.
` And this is the first -- and we can take
`that down.
` Dr. Jensen, if you would like to look at
`the soft copy you have on your computer, however
`you would like to as well. Is that also -- and
`also, your declaration aside, because I think in
`some cases you have created some annotated images
`from Figure 1 that I might ask about.
` A Okay, I have them both up.
` Q Great.
` In addition to the documents -- since you
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`Transcript of Michael Allen Jensen, Ph.D.
`Conducted on March 20, 2023
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`17
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`have submitted your declaration have you reviewed
`any other documents in preparation for your
`deposition?
` A You mean documents other than what I have
`talked about in my declaration?
` Q Yes.
` A No, I don't recall reviewing any other
`documents. Well -- no, that's not true, I have
`since filing this declaration I have seen,
`although not reviewed extensively, the PTAB's
`institution document as well as I believe in this
`case also some patent owner preliminary response
`documents.
` Q Yes, and for the record that's correct, we
`-- Smart Mobile submitted patent owner preliminary
`response and there was a reply and a surreply and
`then the institution decision.
` A Those are additional documents I did not
`have at the time of my declaration.
` Q Correct.
` If we look to Paragraph 87.
` A Okay, I am at 87.
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`18
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` Q Just above that is Figure 1 of
`Exhibit 1008 annotated, correct?
` A It's Figure 2.
` Q I am sorry?
` A Of 1008.
` Q Yes.
` A Yes.
` Q My apologies, correct.
` In Figure 2 you have identified -- first,
`did you create the annotations on this image?
` A No. Counsel prepared these annotations.
` Q Did you give instruction as to how to make
`the annotations?
` A I gave instruction as to sort of what we
`were trying to accomplish and we went back and
`forth on those annotations.
` Q Understood.
` And here you identify, you have got two --
`so there is two -- three colors, a yellow, a blue,
`and a green, correct?
` A That's correct.
` Q What is it that you are attempting to show
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`19
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`with yellow?
` A The parts or some of the parts of Byrne's
`disclosure that relate to cordless telephone
`transceiver and antenna and its communication with
`the microprocessor.
` Q And is it your -- does this annotation
`indicate that whatever is -- Item 228 is the first
`thing that's marked in yellow, correct?
` A Yes, it's one of the things marked in
`yellow.
` Q And that is an antenna, correct?
` A That's correct.
` Q And is it your understanding that
`information is received or transmitted through
`that antenna?
` A Yes. Precisely, a radio signal that
`contains information, yes.
` Q And is it your -- is this annotation
`indicating that the information or the radio
`signal -- strike that.
` Is this annotation indicating that the
`information received by that antenna is passed to
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`20
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`the microprocessor?
` A Yes. I mean, through other components,
`but if it's on reception, for example, in that
`environment where we are receiving through the
`antenna that information would be passed through
`the microprocessor.
` Q So it is -- one of the stops would be the
`cordless receiver 221, is that correct?
` A That's right.
` Q And then this annotation is indicating
`that information received by the antenna in
`receive mode goes through the cordless receiver
`and then that data or that information is passed
`to the microprocessor, is that correct?
` A That is, yes, my opinion.
` Q If we look at Paragraph 87, you have a
`couple citations. Can you tell me I guess 87 and
`88, perhaps 88 has the references, but where is it
`that you are citing the disclosure that indicates
`that the information received from the antenna is
`passed to the microprocessor?
` A I don't see the reference that -- in those
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`Smart Mobile Technologies LLC, Exhibit 2007
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`Transcript of Michael Allen Jensen, Ph.D.
`Conducted on March 20, 2023
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`21
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`paragraphs I don't see quickly the references
`unless it might be in Paragraph 88, I think that
`first reference there, I need to look, but I think
`that first reference is a paragraph in Byrne that
`talks about what you are referring to of the
`microprocessor's role in the data.
` Q You are talking about in Paragraph 88?
` A Yes, in Paragraph 88 it is EX-1008, column
`8, Line 16 through 23, but I need to go to clarify
`that's the right reference that I am thinking of.
` Q Sure, that's why I introduced Byrne
`already.
` If you would take a look at Byrne and let
`me know if that's what you are referring to.
` A That's the reference that I was thinking
`of.
` Q So this is 8, 16 to 23, it is part of the
`paragraph that finishes up at 28, correct?
` A Yes.
` Q And so the paragraph says when operating
`as a cordless telephone control signals from the
`microprocessor 210 enable cordless receiver and
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`Transcript of Michael Allen Jensen, Ph.D.
`Conducted on March 20, 2023
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`22
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`cordless transmitter 222 is enabling -- I am
`sorry -- is controlling signals from the
`microprocessor -- strike that.
` So there is in this first sentence there
`are control signals that are coming from the
`microprocessor, correct?
` A Yes. The first sentence talks about
`control signals for enabling the cordless
`transceiver, that's correct.
` Q And then the next sentence is the
`microprocessor also monitors signals from the
`cordless receiver indicating received signal
`strength and for detecting received data and from
`the cordless transmitter 222 for sending transmit
`data, correct?
` A That's the next sentence, yes, sir.
` Q And so that means that the microprocessor
`receives signals from the cordless receiver that
`indicates the received signal strength, that's one
`item, correct?
` A That's one item, yes, sir.
` Q And then it receives signals for detecting
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`Transcript of Michael Allen Jensen, Ph.D.
`Conducted on March 20, 2023
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`23
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`received data, correct?
` A Yes, sir.
` Q And then from the cordless transmitter for
`sending transmit data, correct?
` A That's -- yes, those are the three
`elements of that sentence, yes.
` Q Anywhere in there does it refer to
`processing the received data?
` A It doesn't expressly use the words
`processing the received data, but detecting is a
`form of processing.
` Q Is it of the data received?
` A I am sorry, I don't quite understand.
` Q Detecting that the cordless receiver is
`receiving data, does that mean that the
`microprocessor is also receiving that data?
` A Well -- so Byrne here -- you know, this is
`the only sentence we have, so Byrne here is not
`highly clear on everything that he means by this
`sentence, but it certainly leaves a POSITA to
`understand that data is being passed from that
`receiver to the microprocessor.
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`Transcript of Michael Allen Jensen, Ph.D.
`Conducted on March 20, 2023
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`24
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` Q Is it the same data that is being received
`by the antenna?
` A Presumably, right. Again, he is not
`highly explicit here, this is kind of the only
`sentence we have of exactly what that data is and
`what is happening, but data would be coming
`through the antenna that would end up at the
`microprocessor through this channel, it is just
`not highly explicit or not explicit at all about
`what form that takes.
` Q Why is it your opinion that it would be --
`that it would -- data would necessarily end up at
`the microprocessor through this channel?
` A Well, again, it says here for detecting
`received data, so what's doing that detecting,
`what's doing that processing, the processor he
`discloses is the microprocessor 210.
` Q For detecting that the cordless receiver
`is receiving data, correct?
` A Well, I think when you add those words for
`detecting that the cordless receiver is receiving
`data, that's not what he says, he says for
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`Transcript of Michael Allen Jensen, Ph.D.
`Conducted on March 20, 2023
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`25
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`detecting received data.
` Q But the microprocessor is monitoring
`signals from the cordless receiver indicating -- I
`am sorry -- monitoring signals from the cordless
`receiver for detecting received data, correct?
` A That is what the language says, yes.
` Q And it wouldn't need to monitor signals
`from the cordless receiver for the microprocessor
`to receive data, it would know already that it is
`receiving that data, correct?
` MR. KAZI: Objection to the form.
` THE WITNESS: But that's not how it would
`work, right? I mean, if it's monitoring an input
`line to say, oh, data is coming in that I need to
`process, that would also be consistent with this
`language.
`BY MR. UDICK:
` Q Why would it need to input -- why would it
`need to monitor an input line if it would be
`receiving the data?
` A Every microprocessor is monitoring its
`input lines, right, you have input lines that will
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