ERICSSON EXHIBIT 1035
`Ericsson Inc. v. Koninklijke KPN N.V.
`IPR2022-00557, Page 1
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`Ericsson Inc. v. Koninklijke KPN N.V.
`IPR2022-00557, Page 1
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`·1· · · · · · · · IN THE UNITED STATES PATENT
`· · · · · · · · · · ·AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`·2· · · · · BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
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`·3
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`·4· ·ERICSSON, INC.,· · · · · ·)
`· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·)
`·5· · · · ·Petitioner,· · · · ·)· Case No. IPR2022-00557
`· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·)
`·6· ·VS.· · · · · · · · · · · ·)
`· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·)
`·7· ·KONINKLIJKE KPN N.V.,· · ·)
`· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·)
`·8· · · · ·Patent Owner.· · · ·)
`· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·)
`·9
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`11· · · · · · · · · · · ORAL DEPOSITION
`· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · OF
`12· · · · · · · · · · REGIS J. BATES, JR.
`· · · · · · · · · · · · ·JUNE 13, 2023
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`ERICSSON EXHIBIT 1035
`Ericsson Inc. v. Koninklijke KPN N.V.
`IPR2022-00557, Page 2
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`·3· · · ORAL DEPOSITION OF REGIS J. BATES, JR.,
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`·4· ·produced as a witness at the instance of the
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`·5· ·Petitioner and duly sworn, was taken in the
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`·6· ·above-styled and numbered cause on
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`·7· ·June 13, 2023, from 9:03 a.m. to 1:56 p.m.,
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`·8· ·before KATERI A. FLOT-DAVIS, CSR, CRR, in and
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`·9· ·for the State of Texas, reported by machine
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`10· ·shorthand, pursuant to the Federal Rules of
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`11· ·Civil Procedure and the provisions stated on
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`12· ·the record herein.
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`ERICSSON EXHIBIT 1035
`Ericsson Inc. v. Koninklijke KPN N.V.
`IPR2022-00557, Page 3
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`·1· · · · · · · ·A P P E A R A N C E S
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`·2
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`·3· ·FOR THE PETITIONER:
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`·4· ·MELISSA MUENKS, ESQ.
`· · ·Baker Botts L.L.P.
`·5· ·2001 Ross Avenue
`· · ·Ste. 900
`·6· ·Dallas, Texas 75201
`· · ·melissa.muenks@bakerbotts.com
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`·8
`· · ·FOR THE PATENT OWNER:
`·9
`· · ·JIM LOVSIN, ESQ.
`10· ·McDonnell Boehnen Hulbert & Berghoff LLP
`· · ·300 South Wacker Drive
`11· ·Chicago, Illinois 60606
`· · ·lovsin@mbhb.com
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`15· ·Also Present:
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`· · ·Aydaline Garcia, Video Monitor/Document
`17· ·Technician
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`ERICSSON EXHIBIT 1035
`Ericsson Inc. v. Koninklijke KPN N.V.
`IPR2022-00557, Page 4
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`·1· · · · · · · · · · · ·INDEX
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`·2
`· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · PAGE
`·3
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`·4
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`·5· ·Appearances............................· · ·3
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`·6
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`·7
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`·8· ·REGIS J. BATES, JR.
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`·9
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`· · · · Examination by Ms. Muenks...........· · ·7
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`· · · · Examination by Mr. Lovsin...........· · 71
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`· · ·Signature and Changes..................· ·121
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`· · ·Reporter's Certificate.................· ·123
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`ERICSSON EXHIBIT 1035
`Ericsson Inc. v. Koninklijke KPN N.V.
`IPR2022-00557, Page 5
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`·1· · · · · · · · · · · EXHIBITS
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`·2
`· · ·NO.· · · · · DESCRIPTION· · · · · · · · ·PAGE
`·3
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`·4
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`·5· ·Exhibit 1030· · Email string from
`· · · · · · · · · · ·Paul Kyzivat to Adam
`·6· · · · · · · · · ·Roach, dated June 9,
`· · · · · · · · · · ·2009...................· · ·29
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`· · ·Exhibit 1031· · Email string from Glenn
`·9· · · · · · · · · ·Cahall, dated June 4,
`· · · · · · · · · · ·2009...................· · ·51
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`11
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`12· ·Exhibit 1032· · IETF Mail List
`· · · · · · · · · · ·Archives web page......· · ·49
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`· · ·Exhibit 1033· · Email string from
`16· · · · · · · · · ·Paul Kyzivat to Adam
`· · · · · · · · · · ·Roach, dated June 9,
`17· · · · · · · · · ·2009...................· · ·55
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`18
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`· · ·Exhibit 1034· · IETF web page re:
`20· · · · · · · · · ·Subject: Reuse of Sip
`· · · · · · · · · · ·Call-ID question.......· · ·59
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`ERICSSON EXHIBIT 1035
`Ericsson Inc. v. Koninklijke KPN N.V.
`IPR2022-00557, Page 6
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`·1
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`·2
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`·3· ·Exhibit 2032· · Email string from Glenn
`· · · · · · · · · · ·Cahall, dated June 4,
`·4· · · · · · · · · ·2009...................· · ·78
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`·5
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`·7· · · · · · · (Previously Marked Exhibits)
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`·8
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`·9
`· · ·Exhibit 2027· · Declaration of Regis J.
`10· · · · · · · · · ·Bates, Jr., Regarding
`· · · · · · · · · · ·Petitioner's Opposition
`11· · · · · · · · · ·to Patent Owner's Motion
`· · · · · · · · · · ·to Amend................· · 14
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`· · ·Exhibit 2028· · Email string from
`14· · · · · · · · · ·Martin Larochelle, dated
`· · · · · · · · · · ·June 5, 2009............· · 21
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`ERICSSON EXHIBIT 1035
`Ericsson Inc. v. Koninklijke KPN N.V.
`IPR2022-00557, Page 7
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`·1· · · · · · · · P R O C E E D I N G S
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`·2
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`·3· · · · · · · THE REPORTER:· On the record at
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`·4· ·9:03 a.m.
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`·5· · · · · · · · ·(Witness sworn.)
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`·6
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`·7· · · · · · · · REGIS J. BATES, JR.,
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`·8· ·having been first duly sworn, testified as
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`·9· ·follows:
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`10
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`11· · · · · · · MS. MUENKS:· My name is Melissa
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`12· · · · ·Muenks.· I'm with Baker Botts.· I'm
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`13· · · · ·counsel for Petitioner Ericsson, Inc.
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`14· · · · · · · MR. LOVSIN:· James Lovsin.· I'm
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`15· · · · ·here for patent owner, KPN, and the
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`16· · · · ·witness.
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`17
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`18· · · · · · · · · · EXAMINATION
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`19· ·BY MS. MUENKS:
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`20· · · · ·Q.· ·Mr. Bates, can you please state
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`21· ·your name for the record.
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`22· · · · ·A.· ·My name is Regis J. Bates, Jr.
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`23· · · · ·Q.· ·Do you understand that you're
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`24· ·testifying under oath today?
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`25· · · · ·A.· ·I do.
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`ERICSSON EXHIBIT 1035
`Ericsson Inc. v. Koninklijke KPN N.V.
`IPR2022-00557, Page 8
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`·1· · · · ·Q.· ·Is there any reason that you would
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`·2· ·not be able to testify truthfully today?
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`·3· · · · ·A.· ·No.
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`·4· · · · ·Q.· ·Do you understand that there's a
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`·5· ·court reporter who is transcribing the
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`·6· ·questions and answers today?
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`·7· · · · ·A.· ·I do.
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`·8· · · · ·Q.· ·To make it easier for the court
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`·9· ·reporter to capture our conversation, can you
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`10· ·agree to provide verbal answers such as "Yes"
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`11· ·or "No," rather than, for example, shaking
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`12· ·your head?
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`13· · · · ·A.· ·Yes.
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`14· · · · ·Q.· ·Can we agree to try our best not to
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`15· ·talk at the same time?
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`16· · · · ·A.· ·I agree.
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`17· · · · ·Q.· ·If you do not understand my
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`18· ·question, can you let me know?· And I'll try
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`19· ·to clarify.
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`20· · · · ·A.· ·Yes.
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`21· · · · ·Q.· ·Otherwise, I will assume that you
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`22· ·have understood my question.
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`23· · · · · · · Is that fair?
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`24· · · · ·A.· ·Yes.
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`25· · · · ·Q.· ·And, otherwise, I ask that you do
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`ERICSSON EXHIBIT 1035
`Ericsson Inc. v. Koninklijke KPN N.V.
`IPR2022-00557, Page 9
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`·1· ·your best to answer the question that I'm
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`·2· ·asking.
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`·3· · · · · · · Can we agree on that?
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`·4· · · · ·A.· ·I agree.
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`·5· · · · ·Q.· ·And since we are doing the
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`·6· ·deposition remotely, there may be technical
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`·7· ·issues.
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`·8· · · · · · · If a technical issue occurs and we
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`·9· ·are disconnected while the question is
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`10· ·pending, can we agree to wait until all
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`11· ·participants have rejoined the session before
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`12· ·you answer the question?
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`13· · · · ·A.· ·I agree.
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`14· · · · ·Q.· ·Mr. Bates, where are you located
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`15· ·right now?
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`16· · · · ·A.· ·I'm in Heber, Arizona.
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`17· · · · ·Q.· ·Is there anyone in the room with
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`18· ·you?
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`19· · · · ·A.· ·No.
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`20· · · · ·Q.· ·If anyone else enters the room,
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`21· ·will you let me know?
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`22· · · · ·A.· ·I will.
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`23· · · · ·Q.· ·Do you have any notes with you
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`24· ·today?
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`25· · · · ·A.· ·I'm sorry.· What was that?
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`ERICSSON EXHIBIT 1035
`Ericsson Inc. v. Koninklijke KPN N.V.
`IPR2022-00557, Page 10
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`·1· · · · ·Q.· ·Do you have any notes with you
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`·2· ·today?
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`·3· · · · ·A.· ·No.
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`·4· · · · ·Q.· ·Are there any other applications
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`·5· ·open on your computer other than Zoom?
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`·6· · · · ·A.· ·No.
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`·7· · · · ·Q.· ·Will you agree not to use any
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`·8· ·applications other than Zoom, or perhaps a PDF
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`·9· ·reader to the extent we share documents,
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`10· ·during the deposition?
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`11· · · · ·A.· ·I agree.
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`12· · · · ·Q.· ·Will you agree that during the
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`13· ·cross-examination portion of your deposition
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`14· ·you will not communicate with KPN's counsel
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`15· ·regarding the substance of your testimony?
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`16· · · · ·A.· ·I agree.
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`17· · · · · · · MR. LOVSIN:· Objection, Counsel.
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`18· · · · · · · Other than conferring with the
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`19· · · · ·witness about a privilege.
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`20· · · · · · · MS. MUENKS:· That's fine.
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`21· · · · ·Q.· ·(BY MS. MUENKS)· Do you understand
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`22· ·that we have sent a box of exhibits via FedEx?
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`23· · · · ·A.· ·I understand.
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`24· · · · ·Q.· ·Have you received that box?
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`25· · · · ·A.· ·I did.
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`ERICSSON EXHIBIT 1035
`Ericsson Inc. v. Koninklijke KPN N.V.
`IPR2022-00557, Page 11
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`·1· · · · ·Q.· ·Have you opened that box?
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`·2· · · · ·A.· ·No.
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`·3· · · · ·Q.· ·Has anyone looked at any of the
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`·4· ·exhibits in that box?
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`·5· · · · ·A.· ·No.· The box is still sealed.
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`·6· · · · ·Q.· ·Can you please go ahead and open
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`·7· ·that FedEx box.
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`·8· · · · · · · MR. LOVSIN:· Counsel, is it okay if
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`·9· · · · ·I open my box?
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`10· · · · · · · MS. MUENKS:· Yes.
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`11· · · · · · · MR. LOVSIN:· Okay.
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`12· · · · ·Q.· ·(BY MS. MUENKS)· All right.
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`13· · · · · · · Mr. Bates, have you opened the
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`14· ·FedEx box?
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`15· · · · ·A.· ·(No Response.)
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`16· · · · · · · MR. LOVSIN:· For some reason I'm
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`17· ·not able to hear you.
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`18· · · · · · · THE REPORTER:· I didn't hear an
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`19· · · · ·answer either.
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`20· · · · · · · MS. MUENKS:· Do we want to go off
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`21· · · · ·the record quickly?
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`22· · · · · · · THE REPORTER:· Off the record at
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`23· · · · ·9:09 a.m.
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`24· · · · · · · (Brief Recess Taken.)
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`25· · · · · · · THE REPORTER:· Back on the record
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`ERICSSON EXHIBIT 1035
`Ericsson Inc. v. Koninklijke KPN N.V.
`IPR2022-00557, Page 12
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`·1· · · · ·at 9:18 a.m.
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`·2· · · · · · · MS. MUENKS:· All right.
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`·3· · · · ·Q.· ·(BY MS. MUENKS)· Mr. Bates, did you
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`·4· ·do anything to prepare for this deposition?
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`·5· · · · ·A.· ·I did.· I reviewed my documents.
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`·6· · · · ·Q.· ·Did you do anything else?
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`·7· · · · ·A.· ·I met with counsel over a video
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`·8· ·call.
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`·9· · · · ·Q.· ·Which counsel -- who did you meet
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`10· ·with?
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`11· · · · ·A.· ·I met with Attorney Lovsin and also
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`12· ·Attorney Moran.
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`13· · · · ·Q.· ·Was anyone else present?
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`14· · · · ·A.· ·No.
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`15· · · · ·Q.· ·For about how long did you meet
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`16· ·with Mr. Lovsin and Mr. Moran?
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`17· · · · ·A.· ·Oh, yesterday, probably about three
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`18· ·and a half, maybe four hours.
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`19· · · · ·Q.· ·What documents did you review in
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`20· ·preparing for today's deposition?
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`21· · · · · · · MR. LOVSIN:· I'll caution the
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`22· · · · ·witness not to reveal the substance of
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`23· · · · ·attorney-expert communications.
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`24· · · · · · · THE WITNESS:· Agreed.
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`25· · · · · · · I reviewed the preliminary guidance
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`ERICSSON EXHIBIT 1035
`Ericsson Inc. v. Koninklijke KPN N.V.
`IPR2022-00557, Page 13
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`·1· · · · ·document.· I reviewed my declaration, my
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`·2· · · · ·third declaration.
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`·3· · · · · · · I reviewed the patents, '669 and
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`·4· · · · ·Foti.
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`·5· · · · · · · I scanned again through the RFCs.
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`·6· · · · ·The two more important ones were the
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`·7· · · · ·3261 and the 3226.
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`·8· · · · ·Q.· ·(BY MS. MUENKS)· And did you review
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`·9· ·any other documents in preparing for today's
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`10· ·deposition?
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`11· · · · ·A.· ·I don't believe so.
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`12· · · · ·Q.· ·And I believe you've now opened the
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`13· ·FedEx box of exhibits, correct?
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`14· · · · ·A.· ·That's correct.
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`15· · · · ·Q.· ·There should be two spirals.
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`16· · · · · · · Is that right?
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`17· · · · ·A.· ·Yes.
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`18· · · · ·Q.· ·I would like to you turn, please,
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`19· ·to Exhibit 2027.
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`20· · · · · · · I will also share a copy in the
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`21· ·Chat and pull up a copy on the screen.
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`22· · · · · · · THE REPORTER:· Are we marking this
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`23· · · · ·as an exhibit?
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`24· · · · · · · MS. MUENKS:· This is a previously
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`25· · · · ·marked exhibit.
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`ERICSSON EXHIBIT 1035
`Ericsson Inc. v. Koninklijke KPN N.V.
`IPR2022-00557, Page 14
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`·1· · · · · · · THE REPORTER:· Thank you.
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`·2· · · · · · · (Exhibit No. 2027 Previously
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`·3· · · · ·Marked.)
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`·4· · · · · · · THE WITNESS:· I'm there.
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`·5· · · · ·Q.· ·(BY MS. MUENKS)· And I will take
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`·6· ·just a moment.
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`·7· · · · · · · Okay.· I have shared a copy of
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`·8· ·Exhibit 2021 (sic) through the chat, and I am
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`·9· ·also sharing a copy on the screen.
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`10· · · · ·A.· ·I'm sorry.· Did you say 2021 that
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`11· ·you shared?
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`12· · · · ·Q.· ·I'm sorry.· 2027.
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`13· · · · · · · I have shared a copy of
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`14· ·Exhibit 2027 in the chat, and I am also
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`15· ·sharing a copy of Exhibit 2027 on the screen.
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`16· · · · · · · Are you able to see a copy of
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`17· ·Exhibit 2027?
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`18· · · · ·A.· ·I'm downloading it now.
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`19· · · · · · · I have it, yes.
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`20· · · · ·Q.· ·Do you recognize Exhibit 2027?
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`21· · · · ·A.· ·I do.
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`22· · · · ·Q.· ·What is Exhibit 2027?
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`23· · · · ·A.· ·It's a declaration of Regis J.
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`24· ·Bates, junior, regarding "Petitioner's
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`25· ·Opposition to Patent Owner's Motion to Amend.
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`ERICSSON EXHIBIT 1035
`Ericsson Inc. v. Koninklijke KPN N.V.
`IPR2022-00557, Page 15
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`·1· · · · ·Q.· ·Did you work with anyone in
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`·2· ·preparing Exhibit 2027?
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`·3· · · · ·A.· ·This is a work product.· I had
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`·4· ·worked with counsel.
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`·5· · · · ·Q.· ·Who specifically did you work with
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`·6· ·in preparing Exhibit 2027?
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`·7· · · · · · · MR. LOVSIN:· I'll again caution the
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`·8· · · · ·witness not to reveal the substance of
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`·9· · · · ·attorney-expert communications.
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`10· · · · · · · THE WITNESS:· I worked with
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`11· · · · ·Mr. Lovsin.
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`12· · · · ·Q.· ·(BY MS. MUENKS)· Did you work with
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`13· ·anyone else in preparing Exhibit 2027?
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`14· · · · ·A.· ·No.
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`15· · · · ·Q.· ·If we could turn to Paragraph 77 of
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`16· ·Exhibit 2027, which is on Page 30.
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`17· · · · ·A.· ·I see that.
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`18· · · · ·Q.· ·And in Paragraph 77 you reference
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`19· ·an IETF mail archive.
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`20· · · · · · · Do you see that?
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`21· · · · ·A.· ·Yes.
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`22· · · · ·Q.· ·What is the IETF mail archive?
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`23· · · · ·A.· ·The IETF, the Internet engineering
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`24· ·task force, is a group of companies and people
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`25· ·who work on the RFCs.
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`ERICSSON EXHIBIT 1035
`Ericsson Inc. v. Koninklijke KPN N.V.
`IPR2022-00557, Page 16
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`·1· · · · · · · They have a mail server that they
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`·2· ·use for members and other people to be able to
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`·3· ·ask questions or to look up documents, things
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`·4· ·of that nature.
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`·5· · · · · · · So they create a male thread.
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`·6· · · · ·Q.· ·Is the IETF mail archive available
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`·7· ·to the public?
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`·8· · · · ·A.· ·Yes.
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`·9· · · · ·Q.· ·Is the IETF mail archive searchable
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`10· ·by the public?
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`11· · · · ·A.· ·I lost that word you said.
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`12· · · · ·Q.· ·Sure.
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`13· · · · · · · Is the IETF mail archive searchable
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`14· ·by the public?
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`15· · · · ·A.· ·I'm still not understanding that
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`16· ·word you're saying just before "by the
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`17· ·public."
`
`18· · · · ·Q.· ·I'm saying "searchable."
`
`19· · · · · · · So can the public go onto IETF mail
`
`20· ·archive and perform searches?
`
`21· · · · ·A.· ·Yes.
`
`22· · · · ·Q.· ·Have you ever gone -- accessed the
`
`23· ·IETF mail archive?
`
`24· · · · ·A.· ·I have.
`
`25· · · · ·Q.· ·Have you ever performed searches on
`
`ERICSSON EXHIBIT 1035
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`IPR2022-00557, Page 17
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`17
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`·1· ·the IETF mail archive?
`
`·2· · · · ·A.· ·I have.
`
`·3· · · · ·Q.· ·Did you perform any searches on the
`
`·4· ·IETF mail archive for this case?
`
`·5· · · · ·A.· ·Yes.
`
`·6· · · · ·Q.· ·About how long did you spend
`
`·7· ·searching on the IETF mail archive?
`
`·8· · · · ·A.· ·Oh, off the top of my head, I don't
`
`·9· ·know.· I looked up different key words.
`
`10· · · · · · · I was looking for, in specific,
`
`11· ·which I have listed here, "Sip Call-ID."· And
`
`12· ·I looked at other things, based on "reuse,"
`
`13· ·"Call-ID:· The RFC itself, 3261.
`
`14· · · · · · · So I looked at different -- I don't
`
`15· ·know.· I probably spent at least an hour,
`
`16· ·maybe an hour and 20 minutes.
`
`17· · · · ·Q.· ·Did you come up with those search
`
`18· ·terms or did your attorneys provide those to
`
`19· ·you?
`
`20· · · · · · · MR. LOVSIN:· Objection.· Attorney
`
`21· · · · ·work product, privilege.
`
`22· · · · ·Attorney-expert communications.
`
`23· · · · · · · You can answer that question "yes"
`
`24· · · · ·or "no."
`
`25· · · · · · · THE WITNESS:· Yes.· I did it.
`
`ERICSSON EXHIBIT 1035
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`IPR2022-00557, Page 18
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`18
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`·1· · · · ·Q.· ·(BY MS. MUENKS)· And did you
`
`·2· ·review -- well, let me start here.
`
`·3· · · · · · · So in Paragraph 77 of Exhibit 2027
`
`·4· ·you cite an Exhibit 2028.
`
`·5· · · · ·A.· ·Yes.
`
`·6· · · · ·Q.· ·Other than Exhibit 2028, did you
`
`·7· ·review other documents on the IETF mail
`
`·8· ·archive?
`
`·9· · · · ·A.· ·I might have.· I was looking for a
`
`10· ·very specific document, which I show, that I
`
`11· ·called the Sip Call-ID.· But, like I said, I
`
`12· ·was searching on other key words.
`
`13· · · · · · · So I probably looked at other
`
`14· ·documents, but none that had any significance.
`
`15· · · · ·Q.· ·Did you review other search results
`
`16· ·of -- resulting from a search of "Sip
`
`17· ·Call-ID"?
`
`18· · · · ·A.· ·As I just mentioned, this was the
`
`19· ·"Sip Call-ID" thread that I found.
`
`20· · · · · · · So once I had it, I saw what I was
`
`21· ·looking for.
`
`22· · · · ·Q.· ·Did you review other search results
`
`23· ·other than Exhibit 2028 when searching for the
`
`24· ·key words "Sip Call-ID"?
`
`25· · · · · · · MR. LOVSIN:· Objection.· Asked and
`
`ERICSSON EXHIBIT 1035
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`IPR2022-00557, Page 19
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`19
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`·1· · · · ·answered.
`
`·2· · · · · · · THE WITNESS:· This was the whole
`
`·3· · · · ·thread that came through, so I had no
`
`·4· · · · ·need to look at other results.
`
`·5· · · · ·Q.· ·(BY MS. MUENKS)· So you did not
`
`·6· ·look at other results for the search on "Sip
`
`·7· ·Call-ID" other than Exhibit 2028?
`
`·8· · · · · · · MR. LOVSIN:· Objection.· Asked and
`
`·9· · · · ·answered.
`
`10· · · · · · · THE WITNESS:· That's not what I
`
`11· · · · ·said.
`
`12· · · · · · · I did look for other key words.
`
`13· · · · ·But when I got this particular thread,
`
`14· · · · ·that's what I reviewed and that's when I
`
`15· · · · ·stopped.
`
`16· · · · ·Q.· ·(BY MS. MUENKS)· I guess my
`
`17· ·question is for the key words "Sip Call-ID,"
`
`18· ·did you review other results other than
`
`19· ·Exhibit 2028?
`
`20· · · · · · · MR. LOVSIN:· Objection.· Asked and
`
`21· · · · ·answered.
`
`22· · · · · · · THE WITNESS:· And as I said, I did
`
`23· · · · ·look at other key words that I searched
`
`24· · · · ·on, such as "Sip," such as "3261,"
`
`25· · · · ·"Call-ID."
`
`ERICSSON EXHIBIT 1035
`Ericsson Inc. v. Koninklijke KPN N.V.
`IPR2022-00557, Page 20
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`20
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`·1· · · · · · · Yes, I looked at other things.
`
`·2· · · · · · · I didn't analyze them, per se.
`
`·3· · · · ·They didn't have any significance to
`
`·4· · · · ·what I was looking for.
`
`·5· · · · ·Q.· ·(BY MS. MUENKS)· Did you locate
`
`·6· ·Exhibit 2028 or was it provided to you?
`
`·7· · · · · · · MR. LOVSIN:· I'll --
`
`·8· · · · · · · (Simultaneous speaking.)
`
`·9· · · · · · · THE WITNESS:· I located -- pardon
`
`10· · · · ·me.
`
`11· · · · · · · MR. LOVSIN:· I'll again caution the
`
`12· · · · ·witness not to reveal the substance of
`
`13· · · · ·attorney-expert witness communications
`
`14· · · · ·or attorney-work product.
`
`15· · · · · · · THE WITNESS:· So, yes.· I looked at
`
`16· · · · ·it.
`
`17· · · · ·Q.· ·(BY MS. MUENKS)· Did you attempt to
`
`18· ·see if there were other messages with the same
`
`19· ·subject as Exhibit 2028 in the IETF mail
`
`20· ·archive?
`
`21· · · · · · · MR. LOVSIN:· Objection.· Asked and
`
`22· · · · ·answered.
`
`23· · · · · · · THE WITNESS:· As I mentioned, I
`
`24· · · · ·looked at other key words, yes.
`
`25· · · · ·Q.· ·(BY MS. MUENKS)· And my question
`
`ERICSSON EXHIBIT 1035
`Ericsson Inc. v. Koninklijke KPN N.V.
`IPR2022-00557, Page 21
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`21
`
`·1· ·is:· Did you look at other messages with the
`
`·2· ·same subject?
`
`·3· · · · · · · So I'm not asking about other key
`
`·4· ·words.· I'm asking the subject line of
`
`·5· ·Exhibit 2028, the subject of the email
`
`·6· ·message, did you check to see if there were
`
`·7· ·other messages with that same subject line?
`
`·8· · · · · · · MR. LOVSIN:· Objection.· Asked and
`
`·9· · · · ·answered.
`
`10· · · · · · · THE WITNESS:· So if I look at
`
`11· · · · ·Exhibit 2028, which is what we're
`
`12· · · · ·referring to, this is what I looked at.
`
`13· · · · ·I didn't need to go any further.· This
`
`14· · · · ·was the whole thread.
`
`15· · · · · · · MS. MUENKS:· All right.
`
`16· · · · · · · And let me go ahead and introduce
`
`17· · · · ·Exhibit 2028.
`
`18· · · · · · · (Exhibit No. 2028 Previously
`
`19· · · · ·Marked.)
`
`20· · · · · · · MS. MUENKS:· I will share it on the
`
`21· · · · ·screen as well as through the chat.
`
`22· · · · · · · All right.· I have shared
`
`23· · · · ·Exhibit 2028 through the chat, and I am
`
`24· · · · ·sharing a copy of Exhibit 2028 on the
`
`25· · · · ·screen.
`
`ERICSSON EXHIBIT 1035
`Ericsson Inc. v. Koninklijke KPN N.V.
`IPR2022-00557, Page 22
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`22
`
`·1· · · · · · · Are you able to see Exhibit 2028,
`
`·2· · · · ·Mr. Bates?
`
`·3· · · · · · · THE WITNESS:· I'm downloading it
`
`·4· · · · ·now.
`
`·5· · · · · · · Yes, I have it.
`
`·6· · · · ·Q.· ·(BY MS. MUENKS)· Do you recognize
`
`·7· ·Exhibit 2028?
`
`·8· · · · ·A.· ·I do.
`
`·9· · · · ·Q.· ·What is Exhibit 2028?
`
`10· · · · ·A.· ·2028 is a printout of the mail
`
`11· ·archive from the IETF mail thread, that I
`
`12· ·referred to that deals with Sip Caller -ID.
`
`13· · · · ·Q.· ·Okay.
`
`14· · · · · · · And what confirms to you that this
`
`15· ·is a copy of an email message from the IETF
`
`16· ·mail archive?
`
`17· · · · ·A.· ·I'm sorry.· Could you say that
`
`18· ·again.
`
`19· · · · ·Q.· ·Sure.
`
`20· · · · · · · What in this document indicates to
`
`21· ·you that it is -- it is a copy of the IETF
`
`22· ·mail archive?
`
`23· · · · ·A.· ·Well, I have the URL printed out on
`
`24· ·the bottom of the page, but it's also what I
`
`25· ·looked at when I went out on the Sip, the IETF
`
`ERICSSON EXHIBIT 1035
`Ericsson Inc. v. Koninklijke KPN N.V.
`IPR2022-00557, Page 23
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`23
`
`·1· ·mail thread.
`
`·2· · · · ·Q.· ·Okay.
`
`·3· · · · · · · And the top has a blue banner that
`
`·4· ·says "IETF," correct?
`
`·5· · · · ·A.· ·Yes.
`
`·6· · · · ·Q.· ·Are there any other indicators that
`
`·7· ·indicate to you that this is a message from
`
`·8· ·the IETF mail archive, or are those indicators
`
`·9· ·sufficient for you?
`
`10· · · · · · · MR. LOVSIN:· Objection.
`
`11· · · · ·Foundation.· Object to form.
`
`12· · · · · · · THE WITNESS:· And what I have, as I
`
`13· · · · ·mentioned, is the URL on the bottom,
`
`14· · · · ·plus this is what I looked up and what I
`
`15· · · · ·saw on the IETF mail archive.
`
`16· · · · ·Q.· ·(BY MS. MUENKS)· Okay.
`
`17· · · · · · · And the subject of this message is
`
`18· ·"Sip, reuse of Sip Call-ID question," correct?
`
`19· · · · ·A.· ·Yes.
`
`20· · · · ·Q.· ·Did you review any other messages
`
`21· ·on the IETF mail archive with the subject
`
`22· ·line, "Reuse of Sip Call-ID question"?
`
`23· · · · · · · MR. LOVSIN:· Objection.· Asked and
`
`24· · · · ·answered.
`
`25· · · · · · · THE WITNESS:· No.· This was the
`
`ERICSSON EXHIBIT 1035
`Ericsson Inc. v. Koninklijke KPN N.V.
`IPR2022-00557, Page 24
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`24
`
`·1· · · · ·total thread that I saw.
`
`·2· · · · · · · MS. MUENKS:· All right.
`
`·3· · · · ·Q.· ·(BY MS. MUENKS)· If we go to the
`
`·4· ·bottom of Exhibit 2028, at the bottom it shows
`
`·5· ·the list of messages, Mr. Cahall, Mr. Sipos
`
`·6· ·and Mr. Larochelle.
`
`·7· · · · · · · Do you see that?
`
`·8· · · · ·A.· ·I see each one of them with their
`
`·9· ·own thread, yes.
`
`10· · · · ·Q.· ·And do you agree that this
`
`11· ·indicates the messages in this thread?
`
`12· · · · ·A.· ·Yes.
`
`13· · · · ·Q.· ·All right.
`
`14· · · · · · · So the -- the message at the bottom
`
`15· ·of Exhibit 2028 is from Glenn E. Cahall; is
`
`16· ·that correct?
`
`17· · · · ·A.· ·Yes.
`
`18· · · · ·Q.· ·Do you know Mr. Glenn E. Cahall?
`
`19· · · · ·A.· ·No.· I don't know him personally,
`
`20· ·no.
`
`21· · · · ·Q.· ·Have you taken any steps to find
`
`22· ·out who Mr. Glenn E. Cahall is?
`
`23· · · · ·A.· ·He actually identified himself as
`
`24· ·somebody working for -- I think it was Level3,
`
`25· ·and that he had a customer that was asking
`
`ERICSSON EXHIBIT 1035
`Ericsson Inc. v. Koninklijke KPN N.V.
`IPR2022-00557, Page 25
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`
`
`25
`
`·1· ·questions, and that he was looking for
`
`·2· ·information.
`
`·3· · · · ·Q.· ·Have you taken any other steps to
`
`·4· ·find out who Mr. Cahall is?
`
`·5· · · · ·A.· ·No.
`
`·6· · · · ·Q.· ·So you have not taken any steps to
`
`·7· ·determine whether Mr. Cahall is a person of
`
`·8· ·ordinary skill in the art?
`
`·9· · · · · · · MR. LOVSIN:· Objection.
`
`10· · · · ·Mischaracterizes testimony.
`
`11· · · · · · · THE WITNESS:· The people that would
`
`12· · · · ·be asking the questions typically would
`
`13· · · · ·be -- he works for Level3
`
`14· · · · ·Communications.· He says he works for a
`
`15· · · · ·VoIP company.
`
`16· · · · · · · I have not looked at any other
`
`17· · · · ·information on him, no.
`
`18· · · · ·Q.· ·(BY MS. MUENKS)· So you're not
`
`19· ·offering an opinion one way or the other
`
`20· ·regarding whether Mr. Cahall qualifies as a
`
`21· ·person of ordinary skill in the art?
`
`22· · · · ·A.· ·Correct.
`
`23· · · · ·Q.· ·All right.
`
`24· · · · · · · The next message in the email
`
`25· ·chain, the second-to-last message -- I'm
`
`ERICSSON EXHIBIT 1035
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`IPR2022-00557, Page 26
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`26
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`·1· ·sorry.· Before I move on...
`
`·2· · · · · · · This email message from Mr. Cahall
`
`·3· ·at the bottom of the email chain, it was sent
`
`·4· ·June 4th, 2009; is that right?
`
`·5· · · · ·A.· ·Yes.
`
`·6· · · · ·Q.· ·All right.
`
`·7· · · · · · · The next message in the email
`
`·8· ·chain, the second-to-bottom message, is from
`
`·9· ·Mr. Attila Sipos; is that right?
`
`10· · · · ·A.· ·Yes.
`
`11· · · · ·Q.· ·And that was sent June 5th, 2009,
`
`12· ·right?
`
`13· · · · ·A.· ·Yes.
`
`14· · · · ·Q.· ·So he responds to Mr. Cahall the
`
`15· ·next day.
`
`16· · · · ·A.· ·Correct.
`
`17· · · · ·Q.· ·And he says:· "You will get the
`
`18· ·same response here as on sip-core."
`
`19· · · · · · · Do you see that?
`
`20· · · · ·A.· ·I do.
`
`21· · · · ·Q.· ·What is your understanding of the
`
`22· ·reference to "sip-core"?
`
`23· · · · ·A.· ·It would be the core documents that
`
`24· ·are used for Sip on the IETF mail server.
`
`25· · · · ·Q.· ·So Sip-core is another list on the
`
`ERICSSON EXHIBIT 1035
`Ericsson Inc. v. Koninklijke KPN N.V.
`IPR2022-00557, Page 27
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`
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`27
`
`·1· ·IETF mail server?
`
`·2· · · · ·A.· ·It would be another database with
`
`·3· ·information for the users to log on and ask
`
`·4· ·questions and so on.· That would be the core
`
`·5· ·of the document function.
`
`·6· · · · ·Q.· ·And so when Mr. Sipos says, "You
`
`·7· ·will get the same response here as on
`
`·8· ·sip-core," does that suggest to you that
`
`·9· ·Mr. Cahall has also sent an email asking a
`
`10· ·question to Sip-Core?
`
`11· · · · · · · MR. LOVSIN:· Objection.· Form and
`
`12· · · · ·foundation.
`
`13· · · · · · · THE WITNESS:· I didn't bother to
`
`14· · · · ·look as to whether he sent it out on
`
`15· · · · ·Sip-Core, because the title that I was
`
`16· · · · ·looking for came up with this thread.
`
`17· · · · ·Q.· ·(BY MS. MUENKS)· So you took no
`
`18· ·steps to investing whether Mr. Cahall also
`
`19· ·sent a message to Sip-Core?
`
`20· · · · ·A.· ·Correct.
`
`21· · · · · · · MR. LOVSIN:· Objection.
`
`22· · · · ·Q.· ·(BY MS. MUENKS)· Do you know
`
`23· ·Mr. Sipos?
`
`24· · · · ·A.· ·I do not know him personally, no.
`
`25· · · · ·Q.· ·Have you taken any steps to verify
`
`ERICSSON EXHIBIT 1035
`Ericsson Inc. v. Koninklijke KPN N.V.
`IPR2022-00557, Page 28
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`
`
`·1· ·whether or not Mr. Sipos qualifies as a person
`
`28
`
`·2· ·of ordinary skill in the art?
`
`·3· · · · ·A.· ·No, I have not.
`
`·4· · · · ·Q.· ·So you're not offering an opinion
`
`·5· ·one way or the other regarding whether
`
`·6· ·Mr. Sipos is a person of ordinary skill in the
`
`·7· ·art?
`
`·8· · · · ·A.· ·I am not.
`
`·9· · · · ·Q.· ·All right.
`
`10· · · · · · · And the next response is from a
`
`11· ·Mr. Martin Larochelle.
`
`12· · · · · · · Do you see that?
`
`13· · · · ·A.· ·Yes.
`
`14· · · · ·Q.· ·And that was also sent Friday,
`
`15· ·June 5th, 2009?
`
`16· · · · ·A.· ·Yes.
`
`17· · · · ·Q.· ·Do you know Mr. Larochelle?
`
`18· · · · ·A.· ·No.· I don't know him personally,
`
`19· ·no.
`
`20· · · · ·Q.· ·Have you taken any steps to
`
`21· ·investigate whether Mr. Larochelle qualifies
`
`22· ·as a person of ordinary skill in the art?
`
`23· · · · ·A.· ·No.
`
`24· · · · ·Q.· ·So you're not offering any opinion
`
`25· ·one way or the other regarding whether
`
`ERICSSON EXHIBIT 1035
`Ericsson Inc. v. Koninklijke KPN N.V.
`IPR2022-00557, Page 29
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`
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`·1· ·Mr. Larochelle qualifies as a person of
`
`29
`
`·2· ·ordinary skill in the art?
`
`·3· · · · ·A.· ·I am not.
`
`·4· · · · ·Q.· ·All right.
`
`·5· · · · · · · MS. MUENKS:· Could you please turn
`
`·6· · · · ·to Exhibit 1030?
`
`·7· · · · · · · Which I will also share in the
`
`·8· · · · ·chat.
`
`·9· · · · · · · MR. LOVSIN:· Counsel, this is a new
`
`10· · · · ·exhibit, correct?
`
`11· · · · · · · MS. MUENKS:· This is a new exhibit,
`
`12· · · · ·yes.
`
`13· · · · · · · So, for Ms. Davis, this has not
`
`14· · · · ·been previously marked, but I have
`
`15· · · · ·marked this copy Ericsson Exhibit 1030.
`
`16· · · · · · · MR. LOVSIN:· I will object to
`
`17· · · · ·Exhibit 1030, to the extent petitioner
`
`18· · · · ·maintains its objections to Exhibit 2028
`
`19· · · · ·that were lodged on 5/17 and never filed
`
`20· · · · ·with the board; and that is objecting
`
`21· · · · ·under FRE 106, FRE 602, FRE 702, FRE 802
`
`22· · · · ·and FRE 901.
`
`23· · · · · · · (Exhibit No. 1030 Marked.)
`
`24· · · · · · · MS. MUENKS:· All right.
`
`25· · · · ·Q.· ·(BY MS. MUENKS)· Mr. Bates, are you
`
`ERICSSON EXHIBIT 1035
`Ericsson Inc. v. Koninklijke KPN N.V.
`IPR2022-00557, Page 30
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`
`
`30
`
`·1· ·able to see Exhibit 1030?
`
`·2· · · · ·A.· ·I am.
`
`·3· · · · ·Q.· ·And Exhibit 1030 has a blue "IETF"
`
`·4· ·banner at the top, correct?
`
`·5· · · · ·A.· ·Correct.
`
`·6· · · · ·Q.· ·And at the bottom of Exhibit 1030
`
`·7· ·there is a URL that begins:· "https:" --
`
`·8· ·backslash (sic) backslash (sic) --
`
`·9· ·"mailarchive.ietf.org" -- backslash (sic) --
`
`10· ·"arch" -- and it continues.· I won't read all
`
`11· ·of it.
`
`12· · · · · · · Is that correct?
`
`13· · · · ·A.· ·Yes.· I see that.
`
`14· · · · ·Q.· ·And this URL at the bottom of
`
`15· ·Exhibit 1030, that beginning portion that I
`
`16· ·read out loud, that matches the beginning
`
`17· ·portion of the URL at the bottom of
`
`18· ·Exhibit 2028, correct?
`
`19· · · · ·A.· ·I'll need to look at that to be
`
`20· ·sure.· This is the first time I'm seeing this
`
`21· ·document.
`
`22· · · · · · · (Witness reviewing exhibit.)
`
`23· · · · · · · The "mailarchive" portion of it is
`
`24· ·the same.· And then the file that it's in, one
`
`25· ·is "sipcore," the other is "sip."· And then
`
`ERICSSON EXHIBIT 1035
`Ericsson Inc. v. Koninklijke KPN N.V.
`IPR2022-00557, Page 31
`
`
`
`31
`
`·1· ·the document number after it are different.
`
`·2· · · · · · · But the primary portion of the URL,
`
`·3· ·the "mailarchive.ietf.org," and the "archive"
`
`·4· ·and "message" are the same.· The rest is
`
`·5· ·different.
`
`·6· · · · ·Q.· ·Does that indicate to you that this
`
`·7· ·message was pulled from the IETF mail archive?
`
`·8· · · · ·A.· ·Yes.
`
`·9· · · · ·Q.· ·And the subject of this email is:
`
`10· ·"[sipcore] Reuse of Sip Call-Id question,"
`
`11· ·correct?
`
`12· · · · ·A.· ·Yes.
`
`13· · · · ·Q.· ·And other than the beginning
`
`14· ·portion in the brackets, "[sip]" versus
`
`15· ·"[sipcore]," the subject line, "Reuse of Sip
`
`16· ·Call-Id question" in Exhibit 1030 is the same
`
`17· ·subject line as Exhibit 2028.
`
`18· · · · ·A.· ·I see that, yes.
`
`19· · · · ·Q.· ·So in searching on the mail archive
`
`20· ·for "Sip Call-ID," would you agree that this
`
`21· ·would have been one of the results that would
`
`22· ·have resulted from that key word search?
`
`23· · · · · · · MR. LOVSIN:· Objection.· Asked and
`
`24· · · · ·answered.· Objection.· Mischaracterizes
`
`25· · · · ·testimony.
`
`ERICSSON EXHIBIT 1035
`Ericsson Inc. v. Koninklijke KPN N.V.
`IPR2022-00557, Page 32
`
`
`
`32
`
`·1· · · · · · · THE WITNESS:· This might have come
`
`·2· · · · ·up that way.
`
`·3· · · · ·Q.· ·(BY MS. MUENKS)· Would you have
`
`·4· ·reviewed Exhibit 1030 in performing your
`
`·5· ·searches on the key word "Sip Call-ID"?
`
`·6· · · · · · · MR. LOVSIN:· Objection.· Asked and
`
`·7· · · · ·answered.· Objection.· Mischaracterizes
`
`·8· · · · ·testimony.
`
`·9· · · · · · · THE WITNESS:· If it came up, I
`
`10· · · · ·would have reviewed it.
`
`11· · · · · · · MS. MUENKS:· All right.
`
`12· · · · ·Q.· ·(BY MS. MUENKS)· And at the top
`
`13· ·there's the date, June 9th, 2009.
`
`14· · · · · · · Do you see that?
`
`15· · · · ·A.· ·I do.
`
`16· · · · ·Q.· ·And that is within a few days of
`
`17· ·the Exhibit 2028 chain; is that correct?
`
`18· · · · ·A.· ·Correct.
`
`19· · · · ·Q.· ·All right.
`
`20· · · · · · · So the bottom message -- sorry, not
`
`21· ·the bottom message.
`
`22· · · · · · · But the second message, from Adam
`
`23· ·Roach, do you see that?
`
`24· · · · ·A.· ·I see that.
`
`25· · · · ·Q.· ·In the second paragraph, in the
`
`ERICSSON EXHIBIT 1035
`Ericsson Inc. v. Koninklijke KPN N.V.
`IPR2022-00557, Page 33
`
`
`
`33
`
`·1· ·last sentence, Mr. Roach says:· "If y
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