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` UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`
`________________________________
`
`CHANEL, INC.,
`
` Plaintiff,
`
` v. Case No.
`
`MOLO DESIGN, LTD., IPR2022-00543
`
` Defendant.
`
`________________________________
`
` VIDEOCONFERENCE DEPOSITION OF
`
` TODD MACALLEN
`
`DATE: Wednesday, March 22, 2023
`
`TIME: 10:04 a.m. PDT
`
` 12:04 p.m. CDT
`
`LOCATION: Remote Proceeding
`
` 1470 Venables Street
`
` Vancouver, BC, Canada
`
`REPORTED BY: Tina Nelson, Notary Public
`
`JOB NO.: 5793544
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`Veritext Legal Solutions
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`Petitioner Chanel, Inc. Exhibit 1049, Page 1
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`
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` UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`
`________________________________
`
`CHANEL, INC.,
`
` Plaintiff,
`
` v. Case No.
`
`MOLO DESIGN, LTD., IPR2022-00543
`
` Defendant.
`
`________________________________
`
` VIDEOCONFERENCE DEPOSITION OF
`
` TODD MACALLEN
`
`DATE: Wednesday, March 22, 2023
`
`TIME: 10:04 a.m. PDT
`
` 12:04 p.m. CDT
`
`LOCATION: Remote Proceeding
`
` 1470 Venables Street
`
` Vancouver, BC, Canada
`
`REPORTED BY: Tina Nelson, Notary Public
`
`JOB NO.: 5793544
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`Veritext Legal Solutions
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`Petitioner Chanel, Inc. Exhibit 1049, Page 1
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`
`
` A P P E A R A N C E S
`
`ON BEHALF OF PLAINTIFF CHANEL, INC.:
`
` GEOFFREY M. GODFREY, ESQUIRE (by videoconference)
`
`Page 2
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` Dorsey & Whitney LLP
`
` 701 5th Avenue, Suite 6100
`
` Columbia Center
`
` Seattle, WA 98104
`
` godfrey.geoff@dorsey.com
`
` (206) 903-8742
`
`ON BEHALF OF DEFENDANT MOLO DESIGN, LTD. AND TODD
`
`MACALLEN:
`
` MICHAEL CHIBIB, ESQUIRE (by videoconference)
`
` Bracewell LLP
`
` 111 Congress Avenue, Suite 2300
`
` Austin, TX 78701
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` michael.chibib@bracewell.com
`
`ON BEHALF OF DEFENDANT MOLO DESIGN, LTD.:
`
` CONOR CIVINS, ESQUIRE (by videoconference)
`
` Bracewell LLP
`
` 711 Louisiana Street, Suite 2300
`
` Houston, TX 77002
`
` conor.civins@bracewell.com
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`Petitioner Chanel, Inc. Exhibit 1049, Page 2
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`Page 3
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` A P P E A R A N C E S (Cont'd)
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`ON BEHALF OF DEFENDANT MOLO DESIGN, LTD.:
`
` BRIAN TOMPKINS, ESQUIRE (by videoconference)
`
` Bracewell LLP
`
` 111 Congress Avenue, Suite 2300
`
` Austin, TX 78701
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`Petitioner Chanel, Inc. Exhibit 1049, Page 3
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`
`
` I N D E X
`
`EXAMINATION: PAGE
`
` By Mr. Godfrey 8
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`Page 4
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` E X H I B I T S
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`NO. DESCRIPTION PAGE
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`Exhibit 1005 PDF Copy of Archived Webpage
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` From DBEW Website, Softhousing 1 42
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`Exhibit 1014 Images of Softhousing; Bates No.
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` Molo_00004200-4204 45
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`Exhibit 1016 Document Containing Drawing
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` Boards Submitted to 2003 DBEW
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` Competition 36
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`Exhibit 1020 Booklet; Bates Nos.
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` Molo_00004196 - Molo_00004199 51
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`Exhibit 1028 Excerpt from September 2004
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` Issue of Architectural Record 56
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`Exhibit 2007 Affidavit of Todd MacAllen 12
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`Exhibit 2021 Email from Evelyn Lacson,
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` Re: Urgent: Attention Evelyn -
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` Softwall Plus Softblock
`
` Commercial Success Chart, dated
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` 01/03/23 65
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`Exhibit 2030 Snapshot of Molo Webpage, dated
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` 12/14/22 82
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`Petitioner Chanel, Inc. Exhibit 1049, Page 4
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`
`
` E X H I B I T S (Cont'd)
`
`NO. DESCRIPTION PAGE
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` (Exhibits attached.)
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`Page 5
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`Petitioner Chanel, Inc. Exhibit 1049, Page 5
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`
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`Page 6
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` P R O C E E D I N G S
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` THE REPORTER: Good afternoon. My name
`
`is Tina Nelson; I am the reporter assigned by Veritext
`
`to take the record for this proceeding. We are now on
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`the record at 12:04 p.m.
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` This is the deposition of Todd MacAllen
`
`taken in the matter of Chanel, Inc. vs. Molo Design,
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`Ltd. on Wednesday, March 22, 2023, remote via Zoom.
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` I am an notary authorized to take
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`acknowledgements and administer oaths in Minnesota.
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`Parties agree that I will swear in the witness
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`remotely.
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` Additionally, absent an objection on
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`the record before the witness is sworn, all parties
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`and the witness understand and agree that any
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`certified transcript produced from the recording of
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`this proceeding:
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` - is intended for all uses permitted
`
` under applicable procedural and
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` evidentiary rules and laws in the same
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` manner as a deposition recorded by
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` stenographic means; and
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` - shall constitute written stipulation
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` of such.
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` At this time will everyone in
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`Petitioner Chanel, Inc. Exhibit 1049, Page 6
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`attendance please identify yourself for the record.
`
` MR. GODFREY: Geoff Godfrey with Dorsey
`
`& Whitney, representing Chanel.
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` MR. CHIBIB: Michael Chibib with
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`Bracewell, representing Molo Design, Ltd. and the
`
`witness.
`
` MR. CIVINS: Conor Civins here on
`
`behalf of Molo, as well.
`
` MR. TOMPKINS: Brian Tompkins here on
`
`behalf of Molo.
`
` MR. MACALLEN: Todd MacAllen, I'm lead
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`designer and director of Molo.
`
` THE REPORTER: Thank you. Hearing no
`
`objection, I will now swear in the witness.
`
` Mr. MacAllen, please raise your right
`
`hand.
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`WHEREUPON,
`
` TODD MACALLEN,
`
`called as a witness, and having been first duly sworn
`
`to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but
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`the truth, was examined and testified as follows:
`
` THE REPORTER: Oh, go ahead and
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`proceed, Counsel.
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` MR. GODFREY: Okay.
`
`//
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`www.veritext.com
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`Veritext Legal Solutions
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`888-391-3376
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`Petitioner Chanel, Inc. Exhibit 1049, Page 7
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` EXAMINATION
`
`BY MR. GODFREY:
`
` Q Good morning, Mr. MacAllen.
`
` A Good morning.
`
` Q My name is Geoff Godfrey; I represent Chanel
`
`in these IPR proceedings.
`
` Would you please state your full name and
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`address for the record?
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` A Todd MacAllen, 1470 Venables Street,
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`Vancouver, Canada.
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` Q Have you been deposed before?
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` A I have.
`
` Q If I ask a question you don't fully
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`understand, please tell me and I'll do my best to
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`clarify.
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` And if you don't ask for clarification, I'm
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`going to assume that you understand my question.
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` Is that okay?
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` A Understood.
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` Q If you need a break at any time, please say
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`so; okay?
`
` A I will.
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` Q You understand you're under oath today?
`
` A I understand.
`
` Q Is there anything that might impair your
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`www.veritext.com
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`888-391-3376
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`
`Petitioner Chanel, Inc. Exhibit 1049, Page 8
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`
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`ability to testify truthfully and accurately today?
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` A There is not.
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` Q Is there anyone else in the room with you
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`Page 9
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`today?
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` A There is not.
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` Q Can you please confirm that you will not
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`communicate with Counsel or anyone else while we are
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`on the record at the deposition today?
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` A I confirm.
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` Q Other than the applications to run the
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`deposition and view exhibits, do you have any other
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`programs or files open on your computer right now?
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` A I do not. I just have another web window
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`open for the Exhibit Share.
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` Q Within your immediate vicinity, do you have
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`any documents or other materials related to this case?
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` A I have all the exhibits printed.
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` Q Anything else beyond the exhibits?
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` A I have a notepad.
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` Q Do you have any notes on the notepad right
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`now?
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` A They're -- it's a sketchbook, so it -- it
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`includes a whole manner of things that -- nothing to
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`do with this case. I can put that away and get a
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`fresh sheet of paper, if you'd prefer that.
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`Petitioner Chanel, Inc. Exhibit 1049, Page 9
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`Page 10
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` Q That's fine. So they're not -- the notes
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`aren't related to this case?
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` A No. No, they're not.
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` Q What, if anything, did you do to prepare for
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`your deposition today?
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` A Well, really, a lifetime of work. And in
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`addition to that, I spoke with my counsel about what
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`the deposition would be.
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` Q Who did you speak with?
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` A I spoke with -- with Michael and Conor.
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` Q And when was that conversation?
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` A Two days ago.
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` Q Approximately how long did you speak with
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`Michael and Conor?
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` A About -- about an hour.
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` Q Did you speak with anyone else in
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`preparation for your deposition?
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` A I spoke with Stephanie, but just as a manner
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`of doing our work, not necessarily related to the
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`deposition.
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` Q Anyone else?
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` A Canadian counsel. But again, not so much
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`about the deposition, but just the fact that it was
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`happening and --
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` Q Who is the Canadian counsel?
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`Petitioner Chanel, Inc. Exhibit 1049, Page 10
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`Page 11
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` A Marks & Clerk.
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` Q Did you review any documents in preparation
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`for your deposition?
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` A Yes, I did. I -- I looked over the exhibit
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`--
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` MR. CHIBIB: Oh, let me object here.
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`Todd, you don't have to tell him what documents you
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`looked at. That's work product.
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` MR. GODFREY: Are you instructing him
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`not to answer?
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` MR. CHIBIB: To the extent it reveals
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`work product, yes.
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` MR. GODFREY: Okay.
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`BY MR. GODFREY:
`
` Q Are you going to refuse to answer the
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`question, Mr. MacAllen?
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` A I -- I -- yeah, I'm going to follow my
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`counsel.
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` Q Okay. Did you review any deposition
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`transcripts in preparation for your deposition?
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` A I did not.
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` Q Did any of the documents you reviewed
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`refresh your recollection?
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` A Not -- not really. I -- I mean, again, this
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`is my life's work.
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`Petitioner Chanel, Inc. Exhibit 1049, Page 11
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`
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` Q Did you do anything else to prepare for your
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`deposition today?
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` A I -- I had a good sleep, and exercised, and
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`Page 12
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`meditated.
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` Q Okay.
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` MR. GODFREY: I am in the process of
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`introducing what's going to be marked as Exhibit 2007.
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` (Exhibit 2007 was marked for
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` identification.)
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`BY MR. GODFREY:
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` Q If you check the Exhibit Share now and
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`everything's working, you should see a copy.
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` A Okay. I'm going to refer to my physical
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`copy. I do see it in Exhibit Share.
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` Q Okay. Give me a moment while I get it
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`pulled up on my end.
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` Okay. I'm sharing my screen and putting a
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`copy up. You're free to look at the hard copy, if
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`that's your preference. It'll be on the screen, as
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`well.
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` Okay. Exhibit 2007 is titled Affidavit of
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`Todd MacAllen.
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` Do you recognize Exhibit 2007?
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` A I do.
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` Q And what is it?
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`Petitioner Chanel, Inc. Exhibit 1049, Page 12
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`Page 13
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` A This is my affidavit.
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` Q Did you write this affidavit?
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` A I did, in consultation with my counsel.
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` Q If you look towards the end of the document,
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`it appears that you first signed this affidavit in
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`November 22, 2021, which is before these IPR
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`proceedings were filed.
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` Is that correct?
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` A Yeah, that's my understanding.
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` Q Okay. Why was this affidavit created?
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` A For the purpose of the global proceedings
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`against Chanel.
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` Q And did you carefully review the affidavit
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`before signing it to ensure it was accurate?
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` A Yes.
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` Q Are there any incorrect statements in the
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`affidavit?
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` A Not that I'm aware of.
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` Q I'd like to direct your attention to
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`paragraph 11, which begins near the bottom of page
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`three and carries over onto page four.
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` Can you review that paragraph and let me
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`know when you're ready to proceed?
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` A I'm ready.
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` Q Okay. The second -- excuse me, the second
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`Petitioner Chanel, Inc. Exhibit 1049, Page 13
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`Page 14
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`sentence of paragraph 11 states "The soft concept
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`included ideas related to softhouse, softroom,
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`softwall, softblock, lighting, seating, and tables
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`formed from flexible translucent honeycomb."
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` Do you see that?
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` A I do.
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` Q What is the relationship between softhouse,
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`softroom, softwall, and softblock?
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` A They form a family, and the family was
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`mainly conceptual as a group of ideas. So the main
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`thing tying them together is that they share a set of
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`ideas.
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` Q And what are the ideas that they share?
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` A Flexibility. The ability to adapt to change
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`in living conditions; both change during the day, and
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`then potentially change over time.
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` Q Is there any other ideas common -- excuse
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`me, were there any other ideas common to the group of
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`ideas you're describing?
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` A Those are the -- those are the main ideas.
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`There would be, you know, quite a number of, not
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`lesser, but not as distinct ideas to do with being
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`able to use these things intuitively, being able to
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`use these things without technical skill or tools.
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`Those are examples.
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`Petitioner Chanel, Inc. Exhibit 1049, Page 14
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`
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`Page 15
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` Q Why did you use the word "honeycomb" to
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`describe these articles?
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` A Early on we were looking at various ways --
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`various structures that would be expandable, and
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`compressible, and lightweight. We tried out -- we
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`were trying out several things and -- honeycomb being
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`one of them. And then at the time, obviously, of the
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`affidavit, it -- honeycomb -- it was a certainty.
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` Q What do you mean by that; "It was a
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`certainty"?
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` A Well, when I -- when I signed this
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`affidavit, we're -- we're, you know, well -- well into
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`manufacturing our -- our products, and we are, in
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`fact, using honeycomb.
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` At the time, as I said, in 2002, honeycomb
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`was potentially one of the material and fabrication
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`means of achieving flexibility and lightweight.
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` Q Was softwall a component of softhouse?
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` MR. CHIBIB: Objection. Vague as to
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`what "component" means.
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` A Softhouse was, at the time, a general idea
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`of an integrated room, a bedroom example, that -- that
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`-- sorry, that would integrate furniture into it.
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` So whether it was the sides, the ceiling,
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`the bed, the seating; all of these things would be one
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`Page 16
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`-- one single unit.
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` Q And would softwall be an example of an
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`article of furniture integrated into the softroom
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`concept?
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` A At the time, no. Softwall wasn't -- didn't
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`exist. The word even didn't exist.
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` Q What do you mean by that?
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` A We hadn't invented it yet.
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` Q What are you referring to in paragraph 11 of
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`your declaration with the word "softwall"?
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` A Well, I'm writing it now, you know, or
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`several months ago.
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` And so at this point, I can describe the
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`products that we have since invented, as well as the
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`early concepts together as a group of ideas.
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` Q So when I read paragraph 11, my reading of
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`it -- what you were writing is that in 2002 you had
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`developed the soft concept, and that soft concept
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`included ideas relating to, among other things,
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`softwall.
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` Is that an incorrect reading of what you
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`were trying to communicate here?
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` A No, it's -- no, it's not.
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` Q Did you have a soft concept in 2002 that
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`included ideas related to softwall?
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`Page 17
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` A Yes, we had a soft concept in 2002 that
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`included ideas of softwall.
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` But just to clarify, softwall had not been
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`invented and we had not even created the word
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`"softwall" at that point.
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` Q Did you have early prototypes of softwall in
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`2002?
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` A We did. We had early -- early components,
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`yes.
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` Q What did you refer to those components as in
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`2002, if not softwall?
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` A Well, we started calling them honeycomb
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`blankets, and then we started calling them blocks.
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`And it was just mostly internally at first, because
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`apart from competitions, this was Stephanie and I
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`working together.
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` But as far as I remember, we hadn't -- we
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`didn't come up with the term "softwall" for another
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`year or two.
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` Q So you came up with the term "softwall" in
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`2003?
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` A No, I'm thinking it would've been more in
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`2000 -- 2004, probably towards the end of 2004.
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` But I think -- I think at -- I think at
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`first, Steph and I would've just been knocking the
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`Petitioner Chanel, Inc. Exhibit 1049, Page 17
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`idea around and calling it various things, getting --
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`getting close to softwall, and eventually deciding on
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`softwall late into 2004 probably.
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` Q You don't recall ever using the term
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`"softwall" before 2004?
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` A It -- that's -- that's -- that one's
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`difficult to remember.
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` Q In paragraph 11 of your affidavit, you refer
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`to the softwall and softblock modular system.
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` What is that?
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` A On the following page, the photographs would
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`refer to what would become softwall and softblock over
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`time, with further development. And at this point,
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`they're -- they're concepts.
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` Q What did you mean by "modular system" as you
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`used it in paragraph 11?
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` A Conceptually, we were thinking, as I
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`described before with softhousing, of -- of a system
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`or way of integrating all the elements of a room into
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`one -- into one object.
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` Over time, we started thinking that those
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`elements could be broken out, but still remain part of
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`a system that could be interchangeable or used
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`together.
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` Q Are softwall and softblock the same product?
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`Petitioner Chanel, Inc. Exhibit 1049, Page 18
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` A No.
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` Q Are softwall and softblock made in the same
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`Page 19
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`way?
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` A They're made --
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` MR. CHIBIB: Objection.
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` Q Let me repeat the question. Are softwall
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`and softblock made in the same way?
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` A Softwall and softblock are made in a similar
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`way.
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` Q What differences, if any, are there in the
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`way softwall and softblock are made?
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` A Partially, the machinery.
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` Q What do you mean by that?
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` A We have -- we're limited to the machinery we
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`can use for softwall and we have more flexibility in
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`the machinery that we can use for softblock.
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` Q Do you use the same machinery to make
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`softwall and softblock?
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` A We can use the same machinery to make some
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`-- some things, so the machinery used for softwall
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`could be made -- could be used for softblock.
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` Q Have you used the machinery that you use to
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`make softwall to make softblocks?
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` A Yes.
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` Q Do softwall and softblock have the same
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`Petitioner Chanel, Inc. Exhibit 1049, Page 19
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`cellular core, apart from any differences in size?
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` A They do.
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` Q How is softblock different from softwall?
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` A Softblock is shorter and --
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` Q I'm sorry.
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` A -- and it is stackable.
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` Q Do you consider softblock to be furniture?
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` A We consider them as interior architecture
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`partition display systems.
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` Q The title of your patents includes the
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`phrase "flexible furniture"?
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` A Mm-hm.
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` Q Do you consider softblock to be flexible
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`furniture?
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` A Yes.
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` Q Do you consider softwall to be flexible
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`furniture?
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` A Yes.
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` Q Okay. I'd like to direct your attention
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`back to paragraph 11 of your affidavit, and in
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`particular, these photos near the top of page four.
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` Are you there?
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` A I am.
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` Q Okay. Starting first with the photo on the
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`left, it says "Photo taken 2003."
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`Petitioner Chanel, Inc. Exhibit 1049, Page 20
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` Was this photo taken in 2003?
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` A I believe so.
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` Q In the background left of this photo, is
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`Page 21
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`that an expanded softwall prototype?
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` A It is a prototype.
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` Q Of softwall?
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` A Yes.
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` Q And in the background in the middle and
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`right of this photo, are those two expanded softblock
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`prototypes?
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` A Yes.
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` Q Apart from the differences in size of those
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`prototypes, are there any physical differences between
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`the softwall prototype and the softblock prototypes
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`shown in this photo?
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` A I don't believe so. Not apart from the
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`height.
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` Q Is the expanded softwall prototype in this
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`photo attached to anything?
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` A Outside of the camera view, I believe it
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`would've been attached to something.
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` Q Do you know that for a fact?
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` A Well, I know that we had to provide
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`additional support for these.
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` Q So you have an actual memory of this
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`Petitioner Chanel, Inc. Exhibit 1049, Page 21
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`softwall in this photo being attached to something?
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` A It's -- it is somewhat vague, but -- but --
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`I would say I do, yeah. Not vague, but it's -- it's a
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`hazy memory.
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` Q What was this expanded softwall prototype
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`attached to?
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` A It was likely attached to a wall. The other
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`possibility is that we pre-stretched it quite
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`intensely and put temporary weights on top just to
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`hold it open for the photograph.
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` Q Which one of those two things did you do
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`here?
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` A I -- I don't recall exactly, but probably
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`weighted.
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` Generally speaking, we -- we would -- we
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`would weight these, or attach them, or do both.
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` Q And when you say you would sometimes weight
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`them, can you describe how that worked; what that
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`looked like?
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` A Two of us would pull it apart quite
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`intensely, and then very quickly, we would have -- we
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`would have books beside it on the floor. We would put
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`books on top to keep it from springing back together,
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`and in that period of time, we'd be able to take a
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`photograph.
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`Petitioner Chanel, Inc. Exhibit 1049, Page 22
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` Q In this photograph on the left in paragraph
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`11 of your affidavit, do you see any books on the
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`floor or on top of the softwall prototype?
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` A We would've -- any -- and there wouldn't be
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`any books in view, because we're trying to stage a
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`photograph. So I do not.
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` Q In this photograph, do you see anything
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`attaching the softwall prototype to a wall?
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` A Well, we have purposely cropped the photo,
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`so I -- I do not.
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` Q How large were the books that you would put
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`on top of the softwall prototype?
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` A The largest architecture books that we had.
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`So we had -- we had a few -- we have quite a few
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`monographs, so they might weigh five or more pounds
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`each.
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` Q When you place books on top of a softwall
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`prototype, would you be able to see them, standing in
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`the room?
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` A I could, because I'm quite tall. But I
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`would purposely take the photo at an angle right where
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`they wouldn't appear in the photo.
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` Q The two softblock prototypes in the photo on
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`the left; were they attached to anything?
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` A No, it looks like they're not attached.
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`Petitioner Chanel, Inc. Exhibit 1049, Page 23
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` Q And those two softblock prototypes are not
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`weighted down by books; are they?
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` A They are not.
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` Q Looking to the photo on the right side, your
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`affidavit says "Photo taken 2002."
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` Is that correct?
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` A Yes.
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` Q So you had -- strike that.
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` On the right side of this photo, is that an
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`expanded softwall prototype?
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` A It is.
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` Q And in the background left of this photo, is
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`that an expanded softblock prototype?
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` A It is.
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` Q So am I correct that you had prototypes of
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`both softwall and softblock as of 2002?
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` A Yes.
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` Q In paragraph 11 of your affidavit you write
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`"These early prototypes did not have folding end
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`panels or supports, which we only developed later."
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` Do you see that?
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` A Yes.
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` Q What did you mean by that?
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` A The early prototypes simply had no other --
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`they had no means of self-support. They didn't have
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`Petitioner Chanel, Inc. Exhibit 1049, Page 24
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`Page 25
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`end panels. They didn't have folding end panels.
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`They didn't have any kind of end panels.
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` THE REPORTER: I'm sorry, I need to
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`interrupt for just one minute. I apologize.
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` My software has gone down for just one
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`second, and we need to go off the record, and I will
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`be right back.
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` MR. GODFREY: Okay. Going off the
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`record.
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` THE REPORTER: I apologize. Yes, I'm
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`off -- off the record at 12:39. I will be right back.
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` (Off the record.)
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` THE REPORTER: My apologies. We are
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`back on the record at 12:40.
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` MR. GODFREY: Tina, would you please
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`read back the last full question and answer that you
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`have on the record?
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` THE REPORTER: I have everything
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`recorded on my backup; I don't necessarily have a way
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`right now of -- of doing that. Normally, I would
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`refer to my software. I apologize.
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` MR. GODFREY: Okay.
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` THE REPORTER: Last thing I did have,
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`where you asked -- paragraph 11, the prototype -- the
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`prototypes -- where you read part of the -- of
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`Petitioner Chanel, Inc. Exhibit 1049, Page 25
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`Page 26
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`paragraph 11, where the prototypes do not have folding
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`end panels or support.
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` That's the last that we have.
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`Everything is on the -- recorded on the backup
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`recorder --
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` MR. GODFREY: Okay.
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` THE REPORTER: -- but that's the last
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`thing that I recall having heard.
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` MR. GODFREY: Okay. Thank you. Let's
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`start back there then.
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`BY MR. GODFREY:
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` Q So, Mr. MacAllen, in paragraph 11 of your
`
`affidavit you wrote "These early prototypes did not
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`have folding end panels or supports, which we only
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`developed later."
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` Can you restate your answer for what you
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`meant in that sentence there?
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` A The early prototypes didn't have a means of
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`-- of support or self-support. They had no folding
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`end panels. They had no end panels at all.
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` Q What do you mean by "end panels" in this
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`context?
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` A End panels would be what we later developed
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`to make the softwalls stand on their own.
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` Q Did you mean that these prototypes did not
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`Page 27
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`have end panels that were different from the panels
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`that formed the core of the structure?
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` A Correct.
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` Q Could the ends of these prototypes be folded
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`in a tubular configuration?
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` A We know -- we know now that they could be.
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` Q In this sentence we're looking at in
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`paragraph 11, you write "These early prototypes did
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`not have folding end panels or supports."
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` Were you referring to something different
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`with the word "supports"?
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` A Any -- any means of external support.
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` Q Are end panels and supports referring to the
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`same thing in this context?
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` A An end panel would be a part of the
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`softwall, and a support would potentially just be any
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`-- any type of additional support.
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` Q So as you were using the word here, are
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`supports a different structural element than the end
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`panels?
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` A Yes, could be.
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` Q Can you provide -- strike that.
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` Can you give an example of a softwall that
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`would have end panels, and then supports that are
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`different from the end panels?
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`Petitioner Chanel, Inc. Exhibit 1049, Page 27
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`Page 28
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` A A support different from the end panel could
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`be a steel base with a long, vertical dowel.
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` Q Would you consider the books that you used
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`with some of your softwall prototypes to be supports?
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` A No, far too temporary. Far too temporary
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`and unstable.
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` Q You also write in paragraph 11 that these
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`prototypes were not self-supporting or vertically
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`stable standing on their own, rendering them prone to
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`collapse.
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` What did you mean by that?
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` A They were unstable and would easily fall
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`over.
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` Q Was that true for the softblock prototypes?
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` A Yes.
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` Q Did you do anything to prevent the softblock
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`prototypes from collapsing?
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` A Mostly, we used time efficiently, so we
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`would stretch the blocks as much as we could without
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`tearing them to the point where they were as open as
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`they could be. And then we would have a very short
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`period of time to take a photograph before they would
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`want to creep back into their original form. They
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`held quite a tight shape memory.
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` And when they creep back into their original
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`www.veritext.com
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`888-391-3376
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`Veritext Legal Solutions
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`Petitioner Chanel, Inc. Exhibit 1049, Page 28
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`
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`Page 29
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`form, of course, they become compressed and there's no
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`stability. They just fall over.
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` Q For a short period of time, you were able to
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`get a prototype softblock to stand on its own;
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`correct?
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` A No.
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` MR. CHIBIB: Vague.
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` A We could --
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` Q Let me ask that again, because I -- for a
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`short period of time, such as
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