Trials@uspto.gov
`571-272-7822
`
`Paper 40
`Entered: May 8, 2023
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`UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`____________
`
`BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`____________
`
`APPLE INC.,
`Petitioner
`
`v.
`
`BILLJCO LLC.,
`Patent Owner
`____________
`
`IPR2022-00310 (Patent 9,088,868 B2)
`IPR2022-00426 (Patent 8,761,804 B2)
`____________
`
`Record of Oral Hearing
`Held: April 14, 2023
`____________
`
`Before THU A. DANG, LYNNE H. BROWNE, and GARTH D. BAER,
`Administrative Patent Judges.
`
`
`
`

`

`IPR2022-00310 (Patent 9,088,868 B2)
`IPR2022-00426 (Patent 8,761,804 B2)
`
`APPEARANCES:
`
`ON BEHALF OF THE PETITIONER:
`
`LARISSA BIFANO, ESQ.
`JOSEPH WOLFE, ESQ.
`DLA Piper LLP (US)
`One Liberty Place
`1650 Market Street, Suite 5000
`Philadelphia, PA 19103
`
`ON BEHALF OF THE PATENT OWNER:
`
`COURTLAND C. MERRILL, ESQ.
`SAUL EWING
`33 South 6th Street
`Suite 4750
`Minneapolis, MN 55402
`(612) 225-2943
`
`BRIAN LANDRY, ESQ.
`SAUL EWING
`131 Dartmouth Street, Suite 501
`Boston, MA 02116
`(617) 912-0969
`
`JOSEPH M. KUO, ESQ.
`SAUL EWING
`161 North Clark
`Suite 4200
`Chicago, IL 60601
`(312) 876-7151
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` The above-entitled matter came on for hearing on Friday, April 14,
`2023, commencing at 10:15 a.m. EDT, by video/by telephone.
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`IPR2022-00310 (Patent 9,088,868 B2)
`IPR2022-00426 (Patent 8,761,804 B2)
`
`
`
` P R O C E E D I N G S
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`- - - - -
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`JUDGE BAER: Okay. We are back. This is going to be now our
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`second hearing. This will be our hearing for IPR 2022-426 addressing the
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`‘804 patent and IPR 2022-310 addressing the ‘868 patent. This is between
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`Petitioner, Apple, and Patent Owner BILLJCO.
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`Again, just for the record, I’m Judge Baer. Judges Dang and Browne
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`are also here. Just for the record, if we can get the parties appearances
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`again, please, for petitioner?
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`MS. BIFANO: Larissa Bifano, from DLA Piper, on behalf of
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`Petitioner, Apple; and with me is Joseph Wolfe, also from DLA Piper.
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`JUDGE BAER: And you both will be presenting, correct?
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`MS. BIFANO: Yes. So, Mr. Wolfe will be presenting on ‘868, and
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`I’ll present on the ‘804.
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`JUDGE BAER: Thank you, Ms. Bifano. And for patent owner?
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`MR. KUO: Joe Kuo, on behalf of BILLJCO; with me is Courtland
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`Merrill, who presented today, and Brian Landry.
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`JUDGE BAER: Thank you, Mr. Kuo, and you’ll be presenting the
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`entire argument, is that correct?
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`MR. KUO: Correct.
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`JUDGE BAER: Great. The information we said earlier will apply, so
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`you have all of that information referencing slide numbers, as you speak,
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`that sort of thing. With that, we are ready to begin. Ms. Bifano, the parties
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`are going to each have 45 minutes. We’re going to add an additional 15
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`minutes because of petitioner’s participating in our LEAP program, which
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`we appreciate.
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`

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`IPR2022-00310 (Patent 9,088,868 B2)
`IPR2022-00426 (Patent 8,761,804 B2)
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`Ms. Bifano, how much time would you like to reserve?
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`MS. BIFANO: We’re going to reserve 15 minutes for rebuttal.
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`JUDGE BAER: Great, I will put 45 minutes on the clock. You’re
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`welcome to split the time however you like. And Mr. Wolfe, you’re
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`welcome to consult with Ms. Bifano at any time, if there is anything you
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`need, please just let us know.
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`So, with that, we’ll put 45 minutes on the clock, and you may begin
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`whenever you’re ready.
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`MR. WOLFE: Good morning, my name is Joe Wolfe. I’m
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`representing petitioner Apple, and I’m here to talk about the ‘868 patent,
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`which is the 310 IPR. The ‘868 patent is titled, “Location-Based Exchange
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`Permissions.” It is very similar to the ‘267 patent that we discussed two
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`months ago.
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`The technology is generally directed to a system and method for
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`providing location-based services to mobile data processing systems. It is
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`very similar to the ‘367. The difference is that when the transmitters or the
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`sending devices send wireless data records to these mobile devices, the
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`mobile devices are only going to take some action on these wireless data
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`records if the information corresponding to the wireless data records
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`matches two out of three identifiers.
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`JUDGE BAER: And Mr. Wolfe, what slide are you on?
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`MR. WOLFE: Oh, I’m sorry. This is slide 63.
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`JUDGE BAER: Sixty-three?
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`MR. WOLFE: Yes.
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`JUDGE BAER: Thank you.
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`MR. WOLFE: So, going to slide 64. So, this is a very long and
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`

`

`IPR2022-00310 (Patent 9,088,868 B2)
`IPR2022-00426 (Patent 8,761,804 B2)
`
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`detailed claim, but I try to emphasize portions of the claim that are relevant
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`to today’s discussion. So, a user-specified location-based of then
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`configuration, the three identifiers that I mentioned: a first identifier; a
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`second identifier; and a third identifier, and the identifier data of the wireless
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`data record.
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`So, moving onto slide 65, let’s start with Ground 2 because that’s the
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`simplest ground. So, Ground 2, we are submitting that the claims are
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`obvious over the combination of Haberman and Boger.
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`So, first, let’s talk about Haberman. Again, Haberman is the same
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`reference that we relied on for the ‘267 patent. Haberman is entitled,
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`“Transmitter at Specific Address, Transmitting Address-Specific
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`Informational Content.” As you will see in Figure 14, on the right of slide
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`66, you have your mobile device (1402) that can communicate or receive
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`transmissions or broadcasts from these transmitters.
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`The mobile device (1402) has stored on it a preferences profile
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`(1404). The preferences profile includes the users’ preferences on the
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`broadcast that the mobile device will present to the user. So, as I am sure
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`you know, in a transmitter of mobile devices environment, transmitters are
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`going to transmit wireless data records.
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`They don’t transmit them directly to mobile devices, but they’re just
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`broadcasts within the vicinity of a mobile device and whether or not the
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`mobile device will present that information to the user or takes some sort of
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`other action is defined by the preferences profile (1404).
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`Now, it’s important to note that the preferences profile (1404) must be
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`followed. So, if I have a preference that says I want to receive information
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`X, the mobile device is going to present me with information X. Similarly,
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`

`

`IPR2022-00310 (Patent 9,088,868 B2)
`IPR2022-00426 (Patent 8,761,804 B2)
`
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`if I say, I do not want to see information X, the mobile device is not going to
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`present me with information X, if it’s in that broadcast.
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`So, Boger. Boger is a patent that is directed to a masterless slave
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`master roll switch any Bluetooth piconet. The invention of Boger is very
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`interesting and it’s about how a master device is replaced in a Bluetooth
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`piconet, if the master device slave is XXXI THINK 8:00:8XXX a Bluetooth
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`piconet. But for our grounds, we are relying entirely on the background of
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`Boger, where Boger describes what a conventional piconet topology of
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`Bluetooth is.
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`So, what’s not at issue on Ground 2? So, essentially, all of the
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`identifiers are not at issue. We submit that Boger teaches the first identifier
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`and the third identifier, and this is never challenged by the patent owner.
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`We also submit that Haberman teaches the claim second identifier. This is
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`also not challenged by the patent owner.
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`So, assuming that the claim construction issues that we’ll discuss in
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`Ground 1 are satisfied, the only issue that remains is whether a person of
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`ordinary skill in the art would combine the teachings of Boger with
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`Haberman.
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`‘So, our position is that, you know, Haberman, as I discussed, you
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`know, you have these transmitters, and these transmitters can transmit these
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`data records or messages to mobile devices that are in the vicinity.
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`Haberman provides, you know, multiple types of wireless communication
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`protocols that can be used.
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`As you see in paragraph 73 of Haberman, one of the protocols is a
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`Bluetooth protocol. So, the transmission from the sending device in
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`Haberman can be via Bluetooth transmission and that is exactly what we
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`

`

`IPR2022-00310 (Patent 9,088,868 B2)
`IPR2022-00426 (Patent 8,761,804 B2)
`
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`stated in our petition.
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`Similarly, as I have discussed, Boger discusses a traditional Bluetooth
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`piconet and the topology of a Bluetooth piconet, specifically, how the
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`packets are formed and what’s in the packets when they’re sent from the
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`master device to one of the slave devices.
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`Our position is that it wouldn’t [SIC] have been obvious to a person of
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`ordinary skill in the art that any Bluetooth implementation of Haberman, to
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`include the manner in which the packets are formatted as described in Boger.
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`Because in Boger, as I said before, we’re relying on the first identifier, and
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`the third identifier in Boger, which we have mapped to AM address of the
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`recipient device, as well as the access code of the piconet.
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`So, the patent owner’s sole rebuttal is that there are conflicting
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`objectives between Haberman and Boger, specifically, the patent owner
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`alleges that Haberman states that no network is created among the devices
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`and Boger discusses the creation of a network.
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`And, essentially, as you see, on the bottom left of slide 71, on page 37
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`of the patent owner response, the patent owner says that no IP Address is
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`assigned to the mobile device (108) by the transmitter (102), as occurs when
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`a wireless device registers with a WAN computer network. On the right, in
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`the Sur-reply, the patent owner said the same thing.
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`So, the fundamental issue with the patent owner’s response is they are
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`referring to the wide area network embodiment described in Haberman and
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`not the Bluetooth network. So, if you go back to slide 71, what is
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`specifically stated in paragraph 119 of Haberman is that no IP address is
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`assigned to the mobile device by the transmitter, as occurs when a wireless
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`device registers with a wide area network (WAN) computer network.
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`

`

`IPR2022-00310 (Patent 9,088,868 B2)
`IPR2022-00426 (Patent 8,761,804 B2)
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`So, the examiners -- or the examiners -- (laughter) -- the patent
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`owner’s entire premise is based off the wrong network between the two
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`devices. So, even though Haberman says that no network is created that is
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`only in the WAN environment, and we are relying entirely on the Bluetooth
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`embodiment.
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`Any questions about Ground 2 before I move to Ground 1? (No
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`response) Awesome.
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`So, now, moving to Ground 1, is obviousness over Haberman alone.
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`And I’m on slide 73, and moving to slide 74, so there are about four issues
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`in Ground 1. Of course, you know, the first is whether Haberman discloses
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`the user-specified location base, and then configuration, whether Haberman
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`discloses the identifier data; whether what we relied on in Haberman
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`discloses the claim first identified, so that’s the IP address for the GPS
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`coordinates; and then whether the broadcast identifying information
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`described in Haberman discloses the claim third identifier.
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`What is not at issue whether Haberman discloses the user-specified
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`location-based event configuration or identifier data under its plain and
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`ordinary meaning; whether the transmitting party identification discloses the
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`claim second identifier because the patent owner has not challenged our
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`analysis of what constitutes the second identifier, as well as the patentability
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`of the dependent claims.
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`So, let’s first focus on identifier data. So, again, it’s a very long claim
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`but I try to just excerpt the relevant portions. Essentially, the identifier data
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`corresponds to information in or corresponding to the wireless data record.
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`So, if you look at the portion of slide 77, on the left, it’s including whether
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`identifier data determined by the mobile data processing system for a
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`

`

`IPR2022-00310 (Patent 9,088,868 B2)
`IPR2022-00426 (Patent 8,761,804 B2)
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`wireless data record received for processing.
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`So, patent owners Constructions. So, patent owners taking a narrow
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`construction of identifier data and alleges that the identifier data must
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`identify a grantee and a grantor grantee relationship. This is similar to what
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`we discussed in the ‘267 patent two months ago for a different claim
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`element.
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`Our position is plain and ordinary meaning, no construction required.
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`So, based off of our read of patent owners Construction, it’s our position that
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`they improperly read in limitations from the specification. Essentially, the
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`patent owner has cherry-picked 13 lines of text from nearly 150-page
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`specification to arrive at this plain and ordinary meaning.
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`Even still, even if we apply the patent owner’s construction,
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`Haberman discloses identifier data, as going back two slides to their
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`construction, on page -- slide 78. “It is a grantee identity in the context of a
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`permission granted from a grantor identity to a grantee identity.”
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`In Haberman, there are certain preferences on the slide 80 that the
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`user can put in their preference profile. So, if you look at paragraph 26 of
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`Haberman, one of the preferences is a broadcaster identification which, by
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`which broadcaster is screened or a transmitting identification by which
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`broadcaster is screened.
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`So, essentially, what the user is doing in Haberman is granting the
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`broadcaster or the transmitting party the ability to have their information
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`presented on the mobile device. So, even under their construction,
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`Haberman still teaches this identifier data.
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`JUDGE BAER: Mr. Wolfe, is this the exact same issue that we dealt
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`with in the previous cases that we have heard in Arizona? Is this the exact
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`

`

`IPR2022-00310 (Patent 9,088,868 B2)
`IPR2022-00426 (Patent 8,761,804 B2)
`
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`same issue? Is there something different about it in this case?
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`MR. WOLFE: I would say it’s 98 percent the exact same issue, the
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`two percent being that I think it’s even stronger in this case because of the
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`broadcasts, and broadcaster identification, and the transmitting party
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`identification. There is an overt grant of a permission to these parties to
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`have their information presented on the mobile device here.
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`So, I think it’s even stronger in this case. But, yes, it’s essentially the
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`same issue. Any questions about identifier data before moving on? (No
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`response) Awesome. So, moving to slide 81, so first identifier. So, again,
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`there are multiple identifiers used in the claim.
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`The first identifier is the only identifier that’s indicative of the mobile
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`device. So, essentially, the first identifier is an identifier that is indicative of
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`the mobile device that received the wireless data record. If you look at the
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`excerpt on slide 82, the language that I am going to be focusing on is
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`indicative of.
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`So, Haberman’s First Identifier. So, we identified multiple options in
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`Haberman, the IP address and internal identifier, but I’m going to focus on
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`the GPS information that’s described in Haberman. As part of Haberman’s
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`preferences profile, the user of the mobile device can create a preference
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`based off of proximity.
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`So, it’s not enough to just be in wireless range of a transmitter, but
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`one of the preferences has to be, okay, well, if I’m within 20 feet of this
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`transmitter I want this information to be presented to me. And the way that
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`Haberman is able to make this determination is by utilizing GPS data.
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`So, Haberman is going to receive some sort of GPS data that identifies
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`its coordinates. If you look at paragraph 33 of Haberman, the GPS
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`

`IPR2022-00310 (Patent 9,088,868 B2)
`IPR2022-00426 (Patent 8,761,804 B2)
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`coordinates include longitudinal, latitudinal, and elevational coordinates of
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`the mobile device.
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`So, moving to slide 84. So, the patent owner’s entire rebuttal for this
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`GPS information for the first identifier is that GPS information essentially
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`does not equally identify the mobile device, saying that GPS information
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`does nothing more than indicate longitude and latitude for the GPS-enabled
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`device, and it does not actually identify the device.
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`And our position is that, you know, it seems like what the patent
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`owner wants is a unique identification for the first identifier or even a
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`identify. But, as the claim states, the claims says, “first identifier indicative
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`of the mobile data processing system.”
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`GPS coordinates are indicative of whatever is at that location. So, if
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`we have longitude and latitude information that if you look at the longitude
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`and latitude coordinates on slide 84, those longitude and latitude coordinates
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`are indicative of the Empire State Building.
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`Does it uniquely identify the Empire State Building? No, but it’s
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`indicative of the Empire State Building. The claims don’t require a unique
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`identification. I’m sorry?
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`JUDGE DANG: So, are you saying that identifies something that’s a
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`mobile also, like, if I -- if the mobile -- if the, you know, the phone, the
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`mobile phone is at the Empire State Building and it has a certain longitude
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`and latitude to it, but then it goes into the Brooklyn Bridge and then it has
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`another longitude and latitude is still identifying the phone even though it’s
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`at two different locations?
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`MR. WOLFE: It is still indicative of the phone even though it’s at
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`two different locations. So, what I can say is, you know, everyone here I can
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`

`IPR2022-00310 (Patent 9,088,868 B2)
`IPR2022-00426 (Patent 8,761,804 B2)
`
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`call judges, you know. If I say, “Judges,” Judges isn’t a unique identifier of,
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`you know, any of Judge Dang, Judge Baer, or Judge Browne, but it is
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`indicative of the three of you, and that is what the claim language kind of
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`provides here is that the first identifier has to just be indicative of what -- of
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`the mobile data processing system.
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`So, our position is that the GPS coordinates are indicative of a mobile
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`data processing system, just like if there is a, you know, a white Ford
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`mustang outside and I say, “the white car,” that’s still indicative of the white
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`Ford mustang outside, even though there may be 10 other white cars outside.
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`JUDGE DANG: But, I mean, the white is going to still be there, even
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`if you go from the, you know, Empire State Building or the Brooklyn
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`Bridge. But when you’re talking about the coordinates, right, or the GPS,
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`are you talking about the GPS capability itself? We’re looking at, we’re
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`talking about GPS data, right? So how is that indicative if it, I guess, you
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`know, dependent on where the Park Place is -- I mean, device is, so it’s more
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`indicative of where the device is versus [] the device itself, no?
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`MR. WOLFE: Right, but I would say if we think about it, if we’re -- I
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`think it’s easier for a fixed object. So, if we think about it as an Empire
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`State Building, clearly, those coordinates are indicative of the Empire State
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`Building. I think if the Empire State Building moves, you know, the new
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`coordinates are still indicative of the Empire State Building. The old
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`coordinates would not be indicative of the Empire State Building, but --
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`JUDGE DANG: Right. So, I mean, I guess, like, for instance, if, you
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`know, you are 9-1-1 operator, or something, and then, like, okay, and the
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`mobile device is this coordinate. It identifies that, but if the GPS is not on
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`this, it’s not indicative of that mobile device, right?
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`IPR2022-00310 (Patent 9,088,868 B2)
`IPR2022-00426 (Patent 8,761,804 B2)
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`I guess what’s indicative is it has to be to that device, right? And so,
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`this seems like the coordinate is where that device is at the time, but it’s not
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`-- yeah, I’m trying to understand. I guess you are saying indicative is where
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`is at that time, but it has to -- it has to -- well, I mean suppose you remove
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`the GPS capability from the phone and I’ll argue put it somewhere else, I
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`guess I’m trying to see how is that tie -- the GPS is tied to the phone itself to
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`be indicative of this?
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`MR. WOLFE: Well, again, they’re just like identifiers, so it’s just
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`another identifier corresponding to the mobile device. Again, we could say,
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`oh, we could have a lotta of words or identifiers that describe a certain
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`device whether that be by, you know, the OS, the hardware, the color of the
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`phone, the model of the phone, and the location of the phone still is
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`indicative of the phone itself.
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`JUDGE DANG: That’s my question because I couldn’t identify my
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`phone as at home right now.
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`MR. WOLFE: Correct.
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`JUDGE DANG: And then I went somewhere else, and somebody
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`said, what’s the identification of your phone, and I give it my previous
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`coordinates that would not be an identifier, my phone.
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`MR. WOLFE: Well, that is correct. It would not be the identifier of
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`the phone if you move the phone from the coordinates, it was at, but while
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`the phone is at that location, and I provide the coordinates of that phone at
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`that location those coordinates would be indicative of. The claims don’t
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`state that the first identifier is static.
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`JUDGE DANG: Okay, right, that’s my point. So, you’re arguing that
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`-- your point is that identifier could be a changing thing. It doesn't have to
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`IPR2022-00310 (Patent 9,088,868 B2)
`IPR2022-00426 (Patent 8,761,804 B2)
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`be a static identifier.
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`MR. WOLFE: Correct, correct. So, again, if right now those
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`coordinates are indicative of the Empire State Building, let’s say, somehow
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`it moves two blocks over, those coordinates would no longer be indicative
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`of, but the new coordinates would be indicative of the Empire State
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`Building.
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`JUDGE DANG: Okay, I guess, yeah, I understand your point, thank
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`you.
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`MR. WOLFE: Okay. Okay. So, again, one of the other rebuttals
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`from the patent owner is that our expert stated that GPS coordinates are not
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`indicative of the mobile device but that is not the case. I highlighted
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`portions on slide 85, on the right, from Dr. LaPorta’s testimony that say that
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`GPS can be used to be indicative of the mobile device identity; the same
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`thing with slide 86, just another highlight.
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`Okay, moving on to the third identifier. Any questions about the first
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`identifier before I move on? (No response) Awesome. So, slide 87 starts
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`the third identifier. Okay. So, what is the third identifier? Again, the claim
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`says a lot. But, essentially, the third identifier is, “some identifier indicative
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`of the system that sent the wireless data record.”
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`So, what do we rely on as the third identifier? We rely on
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`Haberman’s teaching of the broadcast identifying information. In paragraph
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`-- in at least paragraph [27] of Haberman, the broadcast identifying
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`information includes a broadcaster identification that represents the author of
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`the information -- of the informational content of a broadcaster.
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`Moving on to slide 90. So, patent owner’s rebuttal is that the
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`transmitting party identification, which we equate to the second identifier
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`IPR2022-00310 (Patent 9,088,868 B2)
`IPR2022-00426 (Patent 8,761,804 B2)
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`and the broadcasting identification, which we equate to the third identifier,
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`identify different devices, simply not true. Haberman discloses there is no
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`teaching in Haberman that states that the transmitting party identification
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`and the broadcasting identifying information identified different devices.
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`I’m sure the patent owner is going to come up here and provide
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`various examples of the transmitting party identification and the
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`broadcasting identifying information identifying different devices. But there
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`are also examples of them identifying the same device. Let’s say there is a
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`transmittal at Starbucks. The informational content of the transmissions
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`from Starbucks would be generated by Starbucks and sent out.
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`In that case, the author and the transmitter would both be Starbucks.
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`There could be another example that I’m sure the patent owner is going to
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`bring up where the transmitter is not located at Starbucks, but the
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`information in the transmission is related to Starbucks. In that example, they
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`would identify different devices. But I think it is equally as likely for, you
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`know, just as likely that they can identify the same device as different
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`devices. Both examples work and both examples are consistent with
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`Haberman.
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`Any questions before that one? (No response) Awesome. All right.
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`So you specify location base event configuration. So, again, what is this?
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`Essentially, it is used for screening wireless data records.
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`So, Patent Owner’s Construction. So, se submit that user-specified
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`location-based event configuration should be construed under as plain and
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`ordinary meaning. The patent owner wants to state that this is privileged
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`data where privilege means are granted users program to process these
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`services to perform certain functions on a computer not a preference.
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`IPR2022-00310 (Patent 9,088,868 B2)
`IPR2022-00426 (Patent 8,761,804 B2)
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`So, essentially, this relitigating the issue of the ‘267, whether
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`Haberman's preferences are the same as privilege. So, our position is that,
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`you know, the patent owner is simply commented (Phonetic) its construction
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`based off of a typographic error in the petition that the petitioner notified the
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`patent owner of during the expert deposition.
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`We incorrectly labeled subheaders, “Limitations Recited Configuring
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`Privileged Data,” and the patent owner has jumped on this and said that we
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`are construing a user-specified location-based event configuration as
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`privileged data, we are not . We never referred to privilege or privilege data
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`in the arguments. It was simply a typo in the subheadings.
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`Despite, you know, the patent owner’s statements to the contrary, the
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`petitioner cannot change the language of the claim itself. But as discussed in
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`the copending IPR-131, Haberman’s preferences are the same as privileges.
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`And I’m happy to answer questions but I feel like, you know, if we want to
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`discuss Haberman’s preferences versus privileges, I have a couple of more
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`slides.
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`JUDGE DANG: Nothing, thank you.
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`MR. WOLFE: Okay. All right, then, with that, I’ll give it to Larissa
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`for the next one.
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`JUDGE BAER: We paused your time, so take your time.
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`MS. BIFANO: Oh, okay. Great. Are you ready?
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`JUDGE BAER: Yes.
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`MS. BIFANO: Okay, great. All right. So I am going to discuss the
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`‘804 patent, so moving -- so now we’re back to -- we’re on slide 39 of our
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`slides. So, what the ‘804 patent is, again, we’re talking about a beacon
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`that’s going to be transmitting data to a mobile device, and it has a bunch of
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`IPR2022-00310 (Patent 9,088,868 B2)
`IPR2022-00426 (Patent 8,761,804 B2)
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`data records. So, basically, the claim discusses, you can compile a bunch of
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`information, then you create a message, and then you beacon it out
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`according to specific configuration. That’s really what the ‘804 patent is
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`about.
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`So, moving to slide 40, we see a big claim that basically is saying, if
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`you get any four pieces of information prepare a message with four pieces of
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`information and transmit it, and then the other aspect is maintaining this
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`configuration for one to perform the beaconing.
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`But you see the things that are issue are really in this transmitting
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`section of the claim, and it’s whether the references are beaconing; and that
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`whether this broadcast unidirectional wireless data record for receipt by a
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`plurality of receiving mobile device processing systems is matched by the
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`prior art.
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`So, the issues we’ll talk about are basically this when it’s beaconing;
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`whether the combination of Himmelstein and Myr are two references,
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`disclose that, and then whether it discloses that transmitting limitation.
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`So, moving to slide 43, Himmelstein. Himmelstein is a reference that
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`relates to assist in the method for providing information to users based on
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`the user’s location. This is used for vehicle communication systems. So,
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`you have a bunch of cars moving around. You have also these transmitters.
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`You want to get important information to those cars and, like, for an
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`emergency situation, and you have different ways .
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`There is a bunch of -- there is multiple different embodiments and
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`how these messages can be transmitted. So you can do a broadcast, or you
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`can do a point-to-point message; you can send it multiples can communicate
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`with other multiples; multiples communicate to the base station; the base
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`IPR2022-00310 (Patent 9,088,868 B2)
`IPR2022-00426 (Patent 8,761,804 B2)
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`station can send it out. There is a bunch of -- there are several different
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`ways it can be done.
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`So, I think that gets a little confusing, especially, when we get into the
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`patent owners’ arguments because I think they’re confusing the different
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`embodiments of Himmelstein. But to be clear, we’re relying on the
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`embodiment where a mobile device is going to be transmitting to plurality of
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`other mobile devices.
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`Now, what can it send? It can send a lot of different things. So there
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`is a lot of fields that are disclosed by Himmelstein that can be transmitted
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`and those -- the disclosure of the transmission of the message itself is not
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`what’s at issue here. What’s at issue -- oh, and then, I’m sorry.
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`The Myr reference is another reference we’re relying on, and just to
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`be clear, the only thing we’re relaying on Myr for is this periodic
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`configuration. So, Myr discloses you can preset a configuration from when
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`it’s going to be beaconed, and then that can be set at such as one or three
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`minutes and that was the only aspect of Myr we’re relying on for this
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`combination.
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`All right. So, beaconing, what is a beacon? The patent owner has
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`had a lot of proposals for what a beacon can be, and this is on slide 46. We
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`think it’s a plain and ordinary meaning. But let me just, like, short circuit all
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`of this because we could talk all day about what’s a beacon, and what’s not a
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`beacon; let me give you this example, let me give you that example.
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`But even looking at patent owner’s narrowest construction of a
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`beacon, which is this last one, on slide 46, a beacon is a transmission sent
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`with the intent that it can be used to locate the transmitter. Himmelstein
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`discloses that because Himmelstein sends a message, broadcasts a message
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`IPR2022-00310 (Patent 9,088,868 B2)
`IPR2022-00426 (Patent 8,761,804 B2)
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`to other mobile devices with the location of the transmitter, so it’s disclosed.
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`So, we don’t need to go -- I’m happy to answer lots of hypotheticals about
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`what a beacon is, and what’s