UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
`Page 1
`
`----------------------------X
`EPIC GAMES, INC.,
`) U.S. Patent No.
`) 10,142,810
`Petitioner,
` Case IPR2022-00202
`IPR2022-00291
`IPR2022-00294
`IPR2022-00295
`
`)
` vs.
`)
`)
`INGENIOSHARE, LLC,
`)
`Patent Owner. )
`----------------------------X
`
`))
`
`VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF
`GEORGE N. ROUSKAS, Ph.D. (VOLUME I)
`Thursday, October 27, 2022
`(Taken by Petitioner)
`
`Reported by:
`Christine A. Taylor, RPR,
`Job No.: 5945
`
`TransPerfect Legal Solutions
`212-400-8845 - Depo@TransPerfect.com
`
`Epic Games Ex. 1043
`Epic Games v. IngenioShare
`IPR2022-00291 p. 1
`
`
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
`Page 1
`
`----------------------------X
`EPIC GAMES, INC.,
`) U.S. Patent No.
`) 10,142,810
`Petitioner,
` Case IPR2022-00202
`IPR2022-00291
`IPR2022-00294
`IPR2022-00295
`
`)
` vs.
`)
`)
`INGENIOSHARE, LLC,
`)
`Patent Owner. )
`----------------------------X
`
`))
`
`VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF
`GEORGE N. ROUSKAS, Ph.D. (VOLUME I)
`Thursday, October 27, 2022
`(Taken by Petitioner)
`
`Reported by:
`Christine A. Taylor, RPR,
`Job No.: 5945
`
`TransPerfect Legal Solutions
`212-400-8845 - Depo@TransPerfect.com
`
`Epic Games Ex. 1043
`Epic Games v. IngenioShare
`IPR2022-00291 p. 1
`
`
`
`Page 2
`
` Videotaped deposition of GEORGE N.
`ROUSKAS, Ph.D., taken before CHRISTINE A.
`TAYLOR, Registered Professional Reporter, held
`on Thursday, October 27, 2022, at Residence Inn
`by Marriott, 616 South Salisbury Street,
`Raleigh, North Carolina, commencing at
`10:05 a.m.
`
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`TransPerfect Legal Solutions
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`Epic Games Ex. 1043
`Epic Games v. IngenioShare
`IPR2022-00291 p. 2
`
`
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`Page 3
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` A P P E A R A N C E S:
`
` Representing the Petitioner:
` KIRKLAND & ELLIS LLP
` LINDSEY SHI, ESQ.
` W. TODD BAKER, ESQ. (Washington, D.C.)
` YIMENG DOU, ESQ. (via Zoom)
` SOPHIA LEE, ESQ. (via Zoom)
` 555 South Flower Street, Suite 3700
` Los Angeles, California 90071
` 213.680.8400
` lindsey.shi@kirkland.com
` w.baker@kirkland.com
` yimeng.dou@kirkland.com
` sophia.lee@kirkland.com
`
` Representing the Patent Owner:
` KENT & RISLEY, LLC
` STEPHEN R. RISLEY, ESQ.
` 5755 North Point Parkway, Suite 57
` Alpharetta, Georgia 30022
` 404.585.2101
` steverisley@kentrisley.com
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`TransPerfect Legal Solutions
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`
`Epic Games Ex. 1043
`Epic Games v. IngenioShare
`IPR2022-00291 p. 3
`
`
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`Page 4
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` ALSO PRESENT:
`
` Dr. Kevin Almeroth, University of
` California at Santa Barbara
`
` Brent Troublefield, Videographer
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`TransPerfect Legal Solutions
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`Epic Games Ex. 1043
`Epic Games v. IngenioShare
`IPR2022-00291 p. 4
`
`
`
` C O N T E N T S
` PAGE
`EXAMINATION BY MR. SHI 8
`
`Page 5
`
` * * *
`
` E X H I B I T S
` EXHIBIT DESCRIPTION PAGE
`Exhibit 1 U.S. Patent Number 10,142,810 Claim 12
` Listing
`Exhibit 2 U.S. Patent Number 10,708,727 Claim 13
` Listing
`Exhibit 3 U.S. Patent Number 10,492,038 Claim 14
` Listing
`Exhibit 4 Declaration of Professor George N. 16
` Rouskas, Ph.D. regarding Patent
` 10,142,810
`Exhibit 5 Declaration of Professor Geroge N. 18
` Rouskas, Ph.D. regarding Patent
` 10,708,727
`Exhibit 6 Declaration of Professor George N. 19
` Rouskas, Ph.D. regarding Patent
` 10,492,038
`
`TransPerfect Legal Solutions
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`IPR2022-00291 p. 5
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`Exhibit 7 Declaration of Professor George N.
`Rouskas, Ph.D. regarding Patent
`10,492,038
`Exhibit 8 March 2022 Curriculum Vitae of
`George N. Rouskas
`Exhibit 9 8/22/2002 U.S. Patent Application
`Publication, Diacakis et al.,
`2002/0116461 A1
`62
`Exhibit 10 Techopedia web page
`71
`Exhibit 11 TechTarget web page
`Exhibit 12 11/27/2018 U.S. Patent 10,142,810 B2 86
`Exhibit 13 1/1/2004 Patent Application US
`215
`2004/0001480 A1 (Tanigawa)
`Exhibit 14 9/23/2008 Patent US 7,428,580 B2
`(Hullfish)
`
`216
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`TransPerfect Legal Solutions
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`Epic Games Ex. 1043
`Epic Games v. IngenioShare
`IPR2022-00291 p. 6
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`Page 7
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`P R O C E E D I N G S
`- - -
`THE VIDEOGRAPHER: On record at
`10:05 a.m. Today's date is October 27,
`2022. This is the video deposition of
`Dr. George Rouskas taken in the matter of
`Epic Games, Incorporated, Petitioner,
`versus IngenioShare, LLC, Patent Owner for
`U.S. Patent Numbers 10,142,810, and cases
`IPR 2022-00202, also in 291, 294, and 295.
`Would counsel please introduce
`themselves and then our court reporter will
`swear in our witness.
`MR. SHI: Good morning. My name is
`Lindsay Shi, I'm an attorney at Kirkland &
`Ellis here on behalf of Petitioner, Epic
`Games. With me is Todd Baker and Sophia
`Lee appearing by Zoom. Also with me is
`Dr. Kevin Almeroth, a professor at the
`University of California at Santa Barbara.
`MR. RISLEY: Good morning. This is
`Steve Risley appearing on behalf of the
`Patent Owner, IngenioShare.
`- - -
`
`TransPerfect Legal Solutions
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`Epic Games Ex. 1043
`Epic Games v. IngenioShare
`IPR2022-00291 p. 7
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`Page 8
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`GEORGE N. ROUSKAS,
`having first been duly sworn, was examined
`and testified as follows:
`- - -
`EXAMINATION
`
` BY MR. SHI:
`Good morning, Dr. Rouskas.
`Q.
`Good morning.
`A.
`Could you please state your full
`Q.
` name and spell it for the record?
`A.
`Yes. My name is George Rouskas,
`G-E-O-R-G-E, R-O-U-S-K-A-S.
`Q.
`Thank you. What is your home
` address?
`My home address is 7117 Misty
`A.
` Springs Court, Cary, North Carolina 27519.
`Q.
`Dr. Rouskas, have you been deposed
` before?
`I have.
`A.
`How many times?
`Q.
`I don't know the exact number, but
`A.
` it's probably between seven and ten times.
`Q.
`Okay. So since you've been deposed
` before, I won't spend too much time going over
` the ground rules. But I just wanted to, you
`
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`Epic Games Ex. 1043
`Epic Games v. IngenioShare
`IPR2022-00291 p. 8
`
`
`
`Page 9
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` know, set a few ground rules down.
` So now I'm going to ask you some
` questions over the course of the day and you
` need to give me verbal answers. Does that make
` sense?
` A. Yes.
` Q. So there's no "uh-huh" or "huh-uh,"
` but, you know, a yes or no, that sort of thing.
` A. I understand.
` Q. Okay. If you don't understand my
` question, you can ask me to clarify it. Is
` that okay?
` A. Yes.
` Q. If you answer my question, I'll
` assume that you understood the question. Is
` that fair?
` MR. RISLEY: Object to form.
` BY MR. SHI:
` Q. If you answer my question, I'll
` assume that you understood the question. Is
` that fair?
` MR. RISLEY: Same objection.
` THE WITNESS: Yes.
` BY MR. SHI:
` Q. Do you understand that you're under
`
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`Epic Games v. IngenioShare
`IPR2022-00291 p. 9
`
`
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`Page 10
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` oath today?
`A.
`I do.
`Q.
`And so you understand that you're
` under oath to give truthful, complete, and
` accurate testimony today?
`A.
`Yes, I do.
`Q.
`Is there any reason that you can't
` provide your best truthful testimony today?
`A.
`Not that I can think of.
`Q.
`Great. And you understand that this
` deposition is part of an inter partes review or
` IPR proceeding related to three IngenioShare
` patents; right?
`A.
`I understand that.
`Q.
`Okay. Over the course of the day
` your attorney may object from time to time.
` But unless he instructs you not to answer, do
` you understand that you should answer the
` questions?
`I understand.
`A.
`Okay. And we can take breaks
`Q.
` through the course of the day, but I would just
` like to ask that if there's a question pending
` that you answer the question before we go on a
` break. Is that okay?
`
`TransPerfect Legal Solutions
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`Epic Games v. IngenioShare
`IPR2022-00291 p. 10
`
`
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`Page 11
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`Yes, that is okay.
`A.
`Great. Now, Dr. Rouskas, in this
`Q.
` case you submitted four different declarations
` related to these IPR petitions; correct?
`A.
`That is correct.
`Q.
`And these four declarations, one is
` related to the -- what we're calling the '810
` Patent; is that right?
`A.
`That is correct.
`Q.
`One is related to the '727 Patent?
`A.
`Yes.
`Q.
`And two of your declarations are
` related to what we're calling the '038 or the
` '038 Patent, right?
`A.
`'038, yes.
`Q.
`Okay. You understand that for each
` of these patents, my client, Epic Games, has
` challenged certain of these claims; right?
`A.
`I understand.
`MR. RISLEY: Object to form.
`
` BY MR. SHI:
`Sorry, can you --
`Q.
`I understand.
`A.
`Great. The opinions in your
`Q.
` declarations focus on these particularly
`
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`Epic Games v. IngenioShare
`IPR2022-00291 p. 11
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`Page 12
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` challenged claims; right?
`MR. RISLEY: Object to form.
`THE WITNESS: Yes, they do.
`
` BY MR. SHI:
`Okay. So let's take a look at these
`Q.
` claims and mark some exhibits. So I'm handing
` you what we'll mark as Exhibit 1.
`(Exhibit 1 marked for
` identification.)
`It's titled, "U.S. Patent Number
` 10,142,810 Claim Listing." Do you see that?
`A.
`I see that.
`Q.
`Do you recognize this exhibit?
`A.
`Not in this form.
`Q.
`You don't recognize this exhibit?
`A.
`It does say it's the claim listing.
` But, as I said, I've reviewed the claims of the
` '810 Patent, but as part of the patent itself.
`Q.
`Do you see at the bottom of
` Exhibit 1 there's a footnote that says Epic
` Games Exhibit 1033, page 1?
`A.
`I do.
`Q.
`So is it your understanding that
` this exhibit is Exhibit 1033 to the petition
` for the '810 Patent?
`
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`Epic Games v. IngenioShare
`IPR2022-00291 p. 12
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`Page 13
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` A. Okay. Now that you mention it, yes,
` I remember I have seen this.
` Q. Okay. So your testimony is that you
` do recognize this Exhibit 1; is that right?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Okay. Just for the record, this is
` a list of the claims challenged in the '810
` petition; right?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Okay. Let's mark a second exhibit.
` I'm handing you what will be marked as
` Exhibit 2. I'm going to make a big stack here
` in a second.
` (Exhibit 2 marked for
` identification.)
` Dr. Rouskas, this is a document
` titled, "U.S. Patent Number 10,708,727 Claim
` Listing." Do you see that.
` A. Yes, I do.
` Q. Do you recognize this exhibit?
` A. Yes, I do.
` Q. This is a list of the claims
` challenged in the '727 petition; right?
` A. Yes.
` Q. And you've seen this before?
`
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`Epic Games Ex. 1043
`Epic Games v. IngenioShare
`IPR2022-00291 p. 13
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`Page 14
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` A. I have seen this before, yes.
` Q. Great. And I have one more to mark
` at this point. I'm handing you what's to be
` marked as Exhibit 3.
` (Exhibit 3 marked for
` identification.)
` Dr. Rouskas, I've handed you what's
` to be marked as Exhibit 3, which is a document
` titled, "U.S. Patent Number 10,492,038 Claim
` Listing." Do you see that?
` A. I do.
` Q. Do you recognize this exhibit?
` A. I do.
` Q. This is a list of the claims
` challenged in the '038 petition; right?
` A. Yes.
` Q. So you're familiar with all of the
` claims that are laid out in Exhibits 1, 2, and
` 3; right?
` A. Yes, that's correct.
` Q. Okay. Dr. Rouskas, you understand
` that the '810, '727, and the '038 patents are
` in the same patent family; right?
` A. I understand that, yes.
` Q. You understand that the
`
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`Epic Games v. IngenioShare
`IPR2022-00291 p. 14
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`Page 15
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` specifications for these three patents largely
` overlap; right?
`A.
`Yes.
`Q.
`And, in fact, these three patents
` have many of the same claim elements in common;
` right?
`To some degree there are common
`A.
` elements, yes.
`Q.
`Right. There are some common
` elements between the challenged claims of all
` three of these patents; right?
`A.
`Yes.
`Q.
`Is it fair to say that if two or
` three of these patents have the same limitation
` or similar -- a similar limitation, is it fair
` to say that your analysis of that limitation is
` the same across those patents?
`MR. RISLEY: Object to form.
`THE WITNESS: Generally speaking,
`
`yes.
` BY MR. SHI:
`Okay. So, generally speaking, if
`Q.
` two or three of the patents that we're talking
` about, the '810, the '727, and '038 patents,
` have the same or similar limitations, it's fair
`
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`IPR2022-00291 p. 15
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`Page 16
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` to say that in general your analysis of that
` limitation is the same across those patents?
` MR. RISLEY: Object to form.
` THE WITNESS: Yes.
` BY MR. SHI:
` Q. And I'm only asking for the sake of
` efficiency so I don't have to ask you the same
` question, you know, three or four times.
` So let me ask you this. If at some
` point today or tomorrow if we talk about a
` section of one of your declarations and that
` section appears similarly in your other
` declarations, is it fair to say that that
` discussion will apply to those other
` declarations?
` MR. RISLEY: Object to form.
` THE WITNESS: Generally, yes.
` BY MR. SHI:
` Q. Okay. Thank you. So with that out
` of the way, I want to hand you -- I'm handing
` you an exhibit to be marked as Exhibit 4.
` (Exhibit 4 marked for
` identification.)
` Dr. Rouskas, do you recognize this
` exhibit?
`
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`Epic Games Ex. 1043
`Epic Games v. IngenioShare
`IPR2022-00291 p. 16
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`Page 17
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` A. I do.
` Q. Can you explain what this exhibit
` is?
` A. This exhibit is my declaration
` regarding the '810 Patent.
` Q. This is the declaration that you
` signed in this proceeding related to the '810
` petition?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Now, does this declaration,
` Exhibit 4, reflect a complete expression of
` your opinions in this proceeding?
` MR. RISLEY: Object to form.
` THE WITNESS: It does.
` BY MR. SHI:
` Q. So all of your opinions related to
` the '810 Patent you have in this case are
` contained in this declaration, Exhibit 4;
` correct?
` MR. RISLEY: Object to form.
` THE WITNESS: Correct.
` BY MR. SHI:
` Q. Since -- since the time that you
` issued this declaration, have you changed any
` of your opinions with respect to the '810
`
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`Epic Games Ex. 1043
`Epic Games v. IngenioShare
`IPR2022-00291 p. 17
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`Page 18
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` Patent?
`No.
`A.
`Okay. Are there any corrections or
`Q.
` additions to this declaration, Exhibit 4, that
` you'd like to make today?
`A.
`There may be some typos here and
` there, but other than that, I don't think that
` there's any changes, at least not in terms of
` the opinions themselves.
`Q.
`I see. So other than -- other than
` typos here and there, you have no substantive
` changes to the opinions that are contained
` within Exhibit 4; right?
`A.
`That is correct.
`Q.
`Great. So I'm going to hand you an
` exhibit to be marked as Exhibit 5.
`(Exhibit 5 marked for
` identification.)
`Dr. Rouskas, do you recognize
`
` Exhibit 5?
`I do.
`A.
`Can you explain what it is?
`Q.
`Yes. This is the declaration of --
`A.
` that I signed for the '727 Patent.
`Q.
`So similar questions. Is this
`
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`Epic Games Ex. 1043
`Epic Games v. IngenioShare
`IPR2022-00291 p. 18
`
`
`
`Page 19
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` declaration, Exhibit 5, a complete expression
` of your opinions in the '727 IPR proceeding?
`MR. RISLEY: Object to form.
`THE WITNESS: It is.
`
` BY MR. SHI:
`So all of your opinions with respect
`Q.
` to the '727 Patent are contained in this
` declaration; right?
`MR. RISLEY: Object to form.
`THE WITNESS: Yes.
`
` BY MR. SHI:
`Since you issued this declaration,
`Q.
` have you changed any of your opinions with
` respect to the '727 Patent?
`A.
`No.
`Q.
`Other than typographical errors, are
` there any corrections or additions to this
` declaration, Exhibit 5, that you'd like to make
` today?
`No.
`A.
`All right. I'm going to hand you a
`Q.
` document to be marked as Exhibit 7, I
` believe -- 6.
`(Exhibit 6 marked for
` identification.)
`
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`
`Epic Games Ex. 1043
`Epic Games v. IngenioShare
`IPR2022-00291 p. 19
`
`
`
`Page 20
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`Dr. Rouskas, do you recognize this
`
`I do.
`Can you explain what this exhibit
`
` exhibit?
`A.
`Q.
`
` is?
`
`Yes. This is my declaration with
`A.
` respect to the '038 Patent in IPR 294.
`Q.
`And just to be clear for the
` record0 -- let me take a step back. To be
` clear for the record, you authored two
` declarations with respect to the '038 Patent in
` two different proceedings; right?
`A.
`That is correct. Yes.
`Q.
`This particular exhibit, Exhibit 6,
` is one of them; right?
`A.
`It is one of them.
`Q.
`And, in fact, Exhibit 6 is related,
` as you say, to case number ending in 294;
` right?
`That is correct.
`A.
`And that petition mainly deals with
`Q.
` a reference call Diacakis. Is that your
` understanding?
`MR. RISLEY: Object to form.
`THE WITNESS: Yes, that is correct.
`
`TransPerfect Legal Solutions
`212-400-8845 - Depo@TransPerfect.com
`
`Epic Games Ex. 1043
`Epic Games v. IngenioShare
`IPR2022-00291 p. 20
`
`
`
`Page 21
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`
` BY MR. SHI:
`Q.
`So if I refer to this as your '038
` Diacakis declaration, will you understand what
` I mean?
`I will.
`A.
`Great. Now, is this exhibit,
`Q.
` Exhibit 6, a complete expression of the --
` sorry, let me start over.
`Is Exhibit 6 a complete expression
` of your opinions in the proceeding ending in
` 294 with respect to your opinions regarding the
` '038 patent and Diacakis?
`MR. RISLEY: Object to form.
`THE WITNESS: Yes.
`
` BY MR. SHI:
`So all of your opinions related to
`Q.
` the '038 Patent and Diacakis are contained in
` this declaration, Exhibit 6; correct?
`MR. RISLEY: Object to form.
`THE WITNESS: Yes.
`
` BY MR. SHI:
`Since the issuance of this
`Q.
` declaration, have you changed any of your
` opinions or developed new opinions related to
` the '038 Patent and Diacakis?
`
`TransPerfect Legal Solutions
`212-400-8845 - Depo@TransPerfect.com
`
`Epic Games Ex. 1043
`Epic Games v. IngenioShare
`IPR2022-00291 p. 21
`
`
`
`Page 22
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`
`No.
`A.
`Are there any corrections or
`Q.
` additions to your declaration, Exhibit 6, that
` you'd like to make today other than
` typographical errors?
`A.
`No.
`Q.
`Okay. Last one of these. I'm
` handing you an exhibit to be marked as
` Exhibit 7.
`
`(Exhibit 7 marked for
` identification.)
`Dr. Rouskas, do you recognize this
`
` exhibit?
`A.
`Q.
`
` is?
`
`I do.
`Can you explain what this exhibit
`
`Yes. This is my declaration with
`A.
` respect to the '038 patent and the case number
` that ends in 295.
`Q.
`Now, is it your understanding that
` the case you just mentioned, the IPR proceeding
` ending in 295, mainly deals with a reference
` called Tanigawa?
`A.
`Yes.
`Q.
`So if I refer to Exhibit 7 as your
`
`TransPerfect Legal Solutions
`212-400-8845 - Depo@TransPerfect.com
`
`Epic Games Ex. 1043
`Epic Games v. IngenioShare
`IPR2022-00291 p. 22
`
`
`
`Page 23
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` '038 Tanigawa declaration, will you understand
` what I mean?
` A. I will.
` Q. Okay. Is this declaration,
` Exhibit 7, a complete expression of your
` opinions in the proceeding ending in 295 with
` respect to the '038 Patent and Tanigawa?
` MR. RISLEY: Object to form.
` THE WITNESS: Yes.
` BY MR. SHI:
` Q. So all of your opinions related to
` the '038 Patent and Tanigawa are contained in
` this declaration, right?
` MR. RISLEY: Object to form.
` THE WITNESS: Yes.
` BY MR. SHI:
` Q. Since the issuance of this
` declaration, Exhibit 7, have you changed any of
` your opinions or developed new opinions related
` to '038 Patent and Tanigawa?
` A. No.
` Q. So other than typographical errors,
` are there any corrections or additions to this
` declaration, Exhibit 7, that you would like to
` make today?
`
`TransPerfect Legal Solutions
`212-400-8845 - Depo@TransPerfect.com
`
`Epic Games Ex. 1043
`Epic Games v. IngenioShare
`IPR2022-00291 p. 23
`
`
`
`Page 24
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`No.
`A.
`Thank you. Dr. Rouskas, were you
`Q.
` compensated for authoring these declarations?
`A.
`I was.
`Q.
`Can I ask how much?
`A.
`My hourly rate is $450.
`Q.
`Does your hourly rate -- is that
` your standard hourly rate?
`A.
`Yes.
`Q.
`Does that change depending on if
` you're giving testimony or if you're authoring
` reports?
`No.
`A.
`All right. Not counting the time
`Q.
` spent today at your deposition so far,
` approximately how many hours have you billed
` towards these declarations and your work on
` this case?
`I can't tell you the exact number.
`A.
` But I would put it anywhere between 80 and
` 100 hours.
`So if it's about 100 hours and your
`Q.
` hourly rate is $450 an hour, that's
` approximately $45,000 at the higher end; is
` that about right?
`
`TransPerfect Legal Solutions
`212-400-8845 - Depo@TransPerfect.com
`
`Epic Games Ex. 1043
`Epic Games v. IngenioShare
`IPR2022-00291 p. 24
`
`
`
`Page 25
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` A. That's about right, yes.
` Q. Okay. Do you recall when you were
` retained to provide opinions in this case?
` A. I don't recall the exact dates, but
` that was probably sometime in the summer. It
` was either late June or early July.
` Q. You -- strike that.
` When you say late June or early
` July, you're talking about year 2022, right?
` A. 2022, yes.
` Q. So you were retained approximately
` four or five months ago?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Okay. You understand in this case
` that IngenioShare filed preliminary responses
` prior to your declarations; right?
` A. Yes, I believe so.
` Q. And did you review those preliminary
` responses?
` MR. RISLEY: Object to form.
` THE WITNESS: Not that I recall.
` BY MR. SHI:
` Q. Okay. So you did not review, to the
` best of your knowledge, those preliminary
` responses that IngenioShare filed with respect
`
`TransPerfect Legal Solutions
`212-400-8845 - Depo@TransPerfect.com
`
`Epic Games Ex. 1043
`Epic Games v. IngenioShare
`IPR2022-00291 p. 25
`
`
`
`Page 26
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`
` to these IPR petitions?
`A.
`Yes.
`Q.
`Okay.
`MR. SHI: Can we go off the record
`for a quick second?
`THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Off record at
`10:25 a.m.
` (Recess taken from 10:25 a.m. until 10:27 a.m.)
`THE VIDEOGRAPHER: On record at
`10:27 a.m.
`MR. SHI: For the record, I'd just
`like to also remark that a colleague of
`mine, Yimeng Dou, is on the Zoom as well in
`the interest of disclosure.
`MR. RISLEY: Thanks.
`
` BY MR. SHI:
`Dr. Rouskas, we were just talking
`Q.
` about your retention. Did the law firm Kent &
` Risley reach out to you or did IngenioShare
` reach out to you to hire you?
`A.
`It was the law firm.
`Q.
`Have you worked with the law firm
` Kent & Risley before?
`A.
`I have.
`Q.
`How many times?
`
`TransPerfect Legal Solutions
`212-400-8845 - Depo@TransPerfect.com
`
`Epic Games Ex. 1043
`Epic Games v. IngenioShare
`IPR2022-00291 p. 26
`
`
`
`Page 27
`
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`
` A. Once.
` Q. Can you tell me about -- just in
` rough terms about that prior experience you had
` with that firm?
` A. So it was, again, an IPR case and
` the technology that related to mobile phones.
` Q. Did that technology relate to
` communication features in mobile phones?
` A. Yes.
` Q. What was the outcome of that
` proceeding?
` A. The -- it's not known. I think the
` board has not issued a decision yet.
` Q. I see. Were you representing the
` patent owner in that proceeding or the
` petitioner?
` A. I was representing the patent owner.
` Q. Have you ever worked with
` IngenioShare before?
` A. No.
` Q. Did you work with anyone else to
` prepare your declarations in these cases?
` A. So I did work with Steve Risley
` to -- you know, in putting the documents
` together.
`
`TransPerfect Legal Solutions
`212-400-8845 - Depo@TransPerfect.com
`
`Epic Games Ex. 1043
`Epic Games v. IngenioShare
`IPR2022-00291 p. 27
`
`
`
`Page 28
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`
` Q. Okay. Did you work with anyone
` other than Mr. Risley in putting the documents
` together?
` A. No.
` Q. Okay. So the only two people who
` worked on these declarations were the two of
` you?
` MR. RISLEY: Object to form.
` THE WITNESS: Yes.
` BY MR. SHI:
` Q. Okay. Dr. Rouskas, what did you do
` to prepare for this deposition?
` A. So to prepare for the deposition, I
` went back and I reviewed the three patents. I
` reviewed the prior art. I reviewed my
` declarations, and I had a short meeting with
` Mr. Risley yesterday.
` Q. When you say "a short meeting,"
` about how long was it in terms of hours or
` minutes?
` A. It was just short of two hours.
` Q. Was that the only meeting that you
` had with Mr. Risley or anyone else specifically
` to prepare for your deposition?
` A. That was the only one, yes.
`
`TransPerfect Legal Solutions
`212-400-8845 - Depo@TransPerfect.com
`
`Epic Games Ex. 1043
`Epic Games v. IngenioShare
`IPR2022-00291 p. 28
`
`
`
`Page 29
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`
`Approximately how much time did you
`Q.
` spend reviewing documents in preparation for
` your deposition?
`A.
`About 20 hours.
`Q.
`Was anyone other than Mr. Risley
` present at your preparation meeting for two
` hours yesterday?
`A.
`No.
`Q.
`Outside of Mr. Risley or any other
` counsel he may work with, have you discussed
` the substance of your declaration with anyone?
`A.
`No.
`Q.
`Have you ever communicated with
` anyone at IngenioShare?
`A.
`I have not.
`Q.
`Have you ever communicated with any
` of the named inventors on the '810, '727, or
` '038 Patents?
`A.
`I have not.
`Q.
`So you don't know Mr. Peter Tong?
`A.
`No, I don't.
`Q.
`You don't know Mr. Doug Thomas?
`A.
`No.
`Q.
`You don't know Mr. Kwok Wai Cheung?
`A.
`I don't.
`
`TransPerfect Legal Solutions
`212-400-8845 - Depo@TransPerfect.com
`
`Epic Games Ex. 1043
`Epic Games v. IngenioShare
`IPR2022-00291 p. 29
`
`
`
`Page 30
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`
`Okay. Are you familiar with any of
`Q.
` the named inventors of the prior art
` references?
`A.
`No.
`Q.
`Okay. So if you open up Exhibit 4,
` which is the declaration that you authored with
` respect to the '810 petition, and if you turn
` to page 6, paragraph 18.
`A.
`Yes.
`Q.
`So this paragraph is titled, "Bases
` of Opinions." Do you see that?
`A.
`I do.
`Q.
`And in this paragraph you've listed
` 11 categories of documents that you -- you
` analyzed in coming to your opinions; right?
`A.
`Yes, that's correct.
`Q.
`And I may have misspoken. It's not
` that these are 11 categories, but, in fact,
` these are 11 discrete documents and attachments
` that you reviewed; right?
`MR. RISLEY: Object to form.
`THE WITNESS: Yeah, that's what I
`understood as categories. So these are 11
`documents, yes.
` BY MR. SHI:
`
`TransPerfect Legal Solutions
`212-400-8845 - Depo@TransPerfect.com
`
`Epic Games Ex. 1043
`Epic Games v. IngenioShare
`IPR2022-00291 p. 30
`
`
`
`Page 31
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`
`You didn't rely on anything outside
`Q.
` of these 11 documents in forming your opinions;
` right?
`
`MR. RISLEY: Object to form.
`THE WITNESS: No.
`
` BY MR. SHI:
`In particular, I want to direct your
`Q.
` attention to number 11, Roman Numerals XI at
` the bottom. Do you see that?
`A.
`I do.
`Q.
`You indicate that you analyzed
` Exhibit 2007 and you've written Judge Chang,
` and you indicated that this is a dissenting
` opinion from Judge Chang that you reviewed;
` right?
`Yes.
`A.
`And so you understand this to be a
`Q.
` dissenting opinion in an institution decision
` related to the proceeding ending in 294; right?
`A.
`Yes.
`Q.
`Did you consider the majority
` opinion granting institution or did you just
` consider the dissenting opinion?
`A.
`So I -- I certainly looked at the
` document, the whole documents, but I mostly
`
`TransPerfect Legal Solutions
`212-400-8845 - Depo@TransPerfect.com
`
`Epic Games Ex. 1043
`Epic Games v. IngenioShare
`IPR2022-00291 p. 31
`
`
`
`Page 32
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`
` focused on the dissenting opinion.
`Q.
`Okay. But you did review the
` majority opinion?
`A.
`Yes.
`Q.
`You just haven't listed that on
` here; is that right?
`A.
`You're right. I have not listed
` that on there, but I did look at that, yes. It
` was part -- yes, because it was a document that
` was part of -- I mean, the dissenting opinion I
` believe was part of that document.
`Q.
`Okay. I just wanted to verify that
` you reviewed the whole document and not just
` the dissent; is that fair?
`A.
`Yeah.
`Q.
`Okay. Are there any other documents
` that you reviewed in forming your opinions that
` happen to not be listed in this list?
`A.
`The -- I guess the only other two
` are the two web references that I include in
` terms of the definition of a portal, but those
` are listed in the declaration.
`Q.
`I see. So other than those two
` references regarding the definition of a portal
` and outside of the majority opinion that we
`
`TransPerfect Legal Solutions
`212-400-8845 - Depo@TransPerfect.com
`
`Epic Games Ex. 1043
`Epic Games v. IngenioShare
`IPR2022-00291 p. 32
`
`
`
`Page 33
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`
` just talked about with respect to the 294
` proceeding, everything else that you considered
` in forming your opinions is listed in
` paragraph 18; right?
` MR. RISLEY: Object to form.
` THE WITNESS: Yes, that's correct.
` BY MR. SHI:
` Q. Okay. Dr. Rouskas, you've indicated
` that you reviewed the declaration of
` Dr. Almeroth in this proceeding; right?
` A. Yes.
` Q. And you're familiar with
` Dr. Almeroth?
` A. I am.
` Q. Were you aware of who Dr. Almeroth
` was prior to your involvement in this case?
` A. Yes, I was.
` Q. Can you explain what your
` relationship is with Dr. Almeroth?
` A. With -- Dr. Almeroth and I
` overlapped during our Ph.D. studies at Georgia
` Tech in the early '90s, and we have kept up as
` colleagues since then.
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