· · · ·UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
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`· · · · BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
`____________________________________________________________
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`· · · · · · ·SAMSUNG ELECTRONICS CO., LTD.,
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`· · · · · · · · · · · Petitioner,
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`· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·v.
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`· · · · · · · · · · ·MEMORYWEB LLC,
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`· · · · · · · · · · ·Patent Owner.
`____________________________________________________________
`
`· · ·Case IPR2022-00222 (US Patent No. 10,621,228)
`____________________________________________________________
`
`· · · · · · VIDEOCONFERENCE DEPOSITION OF:
`
`· · · · · · · · ·GLENN REINMAN, Ph.D.
`
`· · · · · · · · · ·NOVEMBER 16, 2022
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`· · · Page 1 - 135· · · · 9:06 a.m. - 2:04 p.m. EST
`
`REPORTED BY:
`Tamara L. Houston
`CA CSR No. 7244, RPR, CCRR No. 140
`Job Number 117104
`FR Reference 39843-0117IP1
`
`1
`
`SAMSUNG 1045
`Samsung v. MemoryWeb
`IPR2022-00221
`
`
`
`· · · · BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
`____________________________________________________________
`
`· · · · · · ·SAMSUNG ELECTRONICS CO., LTD.,
`
`· · · · · · · · · · · Petitioner,
`
`· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·v.
`
`· · · · · · · · · · ·MEMORYWEB LLC,
`
`· · · · · · · · · · ·Patent Owner.
`____________________________________________________________
`
`· · ·Case IPR2022-00222 (US Patent No. 10,621,228)
`____________________________________________________________
`
`· · · · · · VIDEOCONFERENCE DEPOSITION OF:
`
`· · · · · · · · ·GLENN REINMAN, Ph.D.
`
`· · · · · · · · · ·NOVEMBER 16, 2022
`
`· · · Page 1 - 135· · · · 9:06 a.m. - 2:04 p.m. EST
`
`REPORTED BY:
`Tamara L. Houston
`CA CSR No. 7244, RPR, CCRR No. 140
`Job Number 117104
`FR Reference 39843-0117IP1
`
`1
`
`SAMSUNG 1045
`Samsung v. MemoryWeb
`IPR2022-00221
`
`
`
`·1
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`·2
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`·3
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`·4· · · · ·REMOTE VIDEOCONFERENCE DEPOSITION OF GLENN
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`·5· ·REINMAN, Ph.D., taken on behalf of the Petitioner,
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`·6· ·commencing from 9:06 a.m. to 2:04 p.m. EST, Wednesday,
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`·7· ·November 16, 2022, before Tamara L. Houston, CSR No.
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`·8· ·7244, CCRR, RPR.
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`·1· ·REMOTE APPEARANCE OF COUNSEL:
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`·2
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`·3· · · · On behalf of the Petitioner:
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`·4· · · · · · ·FISH & RICAHRDSON P.C.
`· · · · · · · ·BY:· CHRISTOPHER O. GREEN, ESQ.
`·5· · · · · · · · · JYUN JIN IN, ESQ.
`· · · · · · · ·1180 Peachtree Street, NE, 21st Floor
`·6· · · · · · ·Atlanta, Georgia 30309
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`·7
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`·8· · · · On behalf of the Patent Owner and Witness:
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`·9· · · · · · ·NIXON PEABODY LLP
`· · · · · · · ·BY:· MATTHEW A. WERBER, ESQ.
`10· · · · · · ·70 West Madison Street
`· · · · · · · ·Suite 5200
`11· · · · · · ·Chicago, Illinois 60602
`· · · · · · · ·(312) 977-4400
`12· · · · · · ·mwerber@nixonpeabody.com
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`·1· · · · · · · · · · ·INDEX TO EXAMINATION
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`·2· · · · · · · · WITNESS:· GLENN REINMAN, PH.D.
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`·3· · ·EXAMINATIONS· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · PAGE
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`·4· · ·Mr. Green:.......................................· · 5
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`·7· · · · · · · QUESTIONS INSTRUCTED NOT TO ANSWER
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`·8· · · · · · · · · · · · Page· · ·Line
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`·9· · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·None
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`12· · · · · · · · · · · EXHIBITS REFERENCED
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`13· ·Exhibit 1001· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·18
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`14· ·Exhibit 1005· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·88
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`15· ·Exhibit 1006· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 104
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`·1· · · · · · · · · Wednesday, November 16, 2022, 9:06 a.m.
`
`·2· · · · · · · · · · · · · ·--o0o--
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`·3· · · · · · · · · · GLENN REINMAN, PH.D.,
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`·4· · · · · · · · · · called as a witness,
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`·5· · · · · · ·was sworn and testified as follows:
`
`·6
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`·7· · · · · · · · · EXAMINATION BY MR. GREEN:
`
`·8· · · · Q.· ·Good morning, Dr. Reinman.
`
`·9· · · · A.· ·Good morning.
`
`10· · · · Q.· ·A couple of preliminaries, if I may.· My name,
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`11· ·as you see on the screen, is Christopher Green.· I'm an
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`12· ·attorney.· I represent Samsung in this matter.
`
`13· · · · · · ·If you would please help us out by stating
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`14· ·your full name and your primary residence just for the
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`15· ·identification in the record.
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`16· · · · A.· ·Sure.· It's Glenn Reinman, R-E-I-N-M-A-N, and
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`17· ·I'm at 1251 North Norman Place, Los Angeles, California
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`18· ·90049.
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`19· · · · Q.· ·Thank you.
`
`20· · · · · · ·Have you been deposed before, Dr. Reinman?
`
`21· · · · A.· ·Yes, sir.
`
`22· · · · Q.· ·And am I pronouncing your name correctly
`
`23· ·before we get any further?
`
`24· · · · A.· ·Yes.
`
`25· · · · Q.· ·Thank you.
`
`5
`
`
`
`·1· · · · · · ·How many times have you been deposed, please?
`
`·2· · · · A.· ·Maybe 18, 19, something in that neighborhood.
`
`·3· · · · Q.· ·Any of those through this virtual format?
`
`·4· · · · A.· ·Yes, sir.
`
`·5· · · · Q.· ·How many of those and how recently, please?
`
`·6· · · · A.· ·I would say -- I would say three, I think, in
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`·7· ·the virtual format as recently as about a month ago.
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`·8· · · · Q.· ·Very well.
`
`·9· · · · · · ·And have you testified at an actual trial
`
`10· ·proceeding?
`
`11· · · · A.· ·I have, yes, sir.
`
`12· · · · Q.· ·How many times and when last?
`
`13· · · · A.· ·I think I've testified seven times now,
`
`14· ·including both District Court and ITC.· The last time I
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`15· ·testified in court was -- I did two that were relatively
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`16· ·close together.· One was in person, and one was on --
`
`17· ·over Zoom.· But they were both earlier this year.· Like,
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`18· ·very much earlier this year.
`
`19· · · · Q.· ·All right.· So I'm sure you've heard most of
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`20· ·this before, but just for sake of completeness, I would
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`21· ·like to go through a few other preliminaries to
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`22· ·hopefully help our day go a little smoother and
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`23· ·especially to help our friend, the court reporter, to
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`24· ·transcribe everything that is said.
`
`25· · · · · · ·But first off -- first off is if you do not
`
`6
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`
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`·1· ·understand a question that I ask, then please ask for
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`·2· ·the clarification then.· If you answer my question, then
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`·3· ·I'll assume it's fair to believe that you understood my
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`·4· ·question and gave me a complete and truthful answer in
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`·5· ·accordance with the oath that you took.
`
`·6· · · · · · ·Is that a reasonable understanding?
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`·7· · · · A.· ·Yes, sir.
`
`·8· · · · Q.· ·Okay.· In terms of answering questions,
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`·9· ·gestures and nods, of course, cannot be transcribed.
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`10· ·Please give verbal answers for the court reporter.· If I
`
`11· ·prompt you for a verbal answer -- it's human nature
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`12· ·sometimes to do a gesture or a nod -- I don't mean to be
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`13· ·rude or confrontational.· It's simply that we have to
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`14· ·have it for the record so that we have a clear
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`15· ·understanding of what was indicated by each party.
`
`16· · · · A.· ·Completely understood, sir.· No problem.
`
`17· · · · Q.· ·Thank you.
`
`18· · · · · · ·Another one -- this one, I'll work on, and
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`19· ·I'll ask for your cooperation to help me work on it with
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`20· ·you.· It's -- sometimes there's a natural tendency to
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`21· ·talk over each other.· Perhaps I may think your answer
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`22· ·is finished or you may think my question is completed,
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`23· ·but let's do our best not to speak over one other so
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`24· ·that we don't force an effort to transcribe what two
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`25· ·people are saying at one time.
`
`7
`
`
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`·1· · · · · · ·Another is that if you need a break at any
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`·2· ·time, just give me an indication of that and just ask
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`·3· ·for it.· I'm glad to try to accommodate breaks for
`
`·4· ·anyone that's in the virtual deposition room today.
`
`·5· · · · · · ·The only thing I ask in return is that if a
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`·6· ·question is pending, let's get an answer to the question
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`·7· ·or resolve any issue surrounding the question before
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`·8· ·everyone leaves so that we have a complete question and
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`·9· ·answer before a break occurs and we all go off the
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`10· ·record.
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`11· · · · · · ·Can we work with that understanding?
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`12· · · · A.· ·Yes, sir.
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`13· · · · Q.· ·Very well.· Thank you.
`
`14· · · · · · ·There may be some exchanges between your
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`15· ·counsel and myself concerning objections.· Objections
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`16· ·are procedural matters between the lawyers.· They are
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`17· ·not something that prevents an answer to a question
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`18· ·unless there's an expressed instruction not to answer.
`
`19· · · · · · ·And if that's the occurrence, I'm going to
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`20· ·trust that your lawyer will make it overtly clear that
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`21· ·that is his wish, and you can choose whether to observe
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`22· ·that instruction or not.· But if it is simply a matter
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`23· ·of an objection, then an answer is still required to the
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`24· ·question that has been asked.
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`25· · · · · · ·Does that make sense?
`
`8
`
`
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`·1· · · · A.· ·Yes, sir.
`
`·2· · · · Q.· ·Okay.· All right.· May I ask -- I realize you
`
`·3· ·gave me your residential address, but may I ask where
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`·4· ·you're physically located today?
`
`·5· · · · A.· ·At my residential address.
`
`·6· · · · Q.· ·At your residence.
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`·7· · · · · · ·Are you there by yourself?
`
`·8· · · · A.· ·Currently, yes.· But my wife may be coming
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`·9· ·home at some point, but I'm in a different room from
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`10· ·her.
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`11· · · · Q.· ·Okay.· That's fine.
`
`12· · · · · · ·So you're alone in the room, I guess, is my
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`13· ·question?
`
`14· · · · A.· ·Yes.
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`15· · · · Q.· ·All right.· And there are no other attorneys
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`16· ·or representatives of MemoryWeb within proximity of you
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`17· ·today?
`
`18· · · · A.· ·No, sir.
`
`19· · · · Q.· ·Okay.· Do you have any paper documents or
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`20· ·other materials accessible to you where you're sitting?
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`21· · · · A.· ·No, sir.
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`22· · · · Q.· ·All right.· What device are you using to
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`23· ·participate in the deposition today?
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`24· · · · A.· ·It's a MacBook Pro.
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`25· · · · Q.· ·All right.· Do you have any other applications
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`9
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`·1· ·or -- well, do you have any applications other than the
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`·2· ·Zoom application necessary to participate open or active
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`·3· ·on your device?
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`·4· · · · A.· ·I think I still have the email from getting
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`·5· ·the session out.· I can close all of that.· I don't need
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`·6· ·Chrome right now, so let me close that.
`
`·7· · · · · · ·Now it's just you and the Zoom.
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`·8· · · · Q.· ·Okay.· No messaging applications or any
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`·9· ·other -- any other thing of that nature?
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`10· · · · A.· ·Let me make sure -- I mean, messages, I don't
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`11· ·know if you can ever completely remove that from the Mac
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`12· ·tray table, but it's not open right now currently.
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`13· · · · Q.· ·Very well.· That's my only question.· Thank
`
`14· ·you.· All right.
`
`15· · · · · · ·MR. WERBER:· Counsel, one thing for the
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`16· ·record.· If we are posting exhibits to chat, he may need
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`17· ·his Acrobat Reader or whatever to look at the exhibits
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`18· ·you're showing.
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`19· · · · · · ·MR. GREEN:· Of course.· We're not speaking to
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`20· ·any applications required to participate fully in the
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`21· ·deposition today.· Or we're not meaning to preclude
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`22· ·those, I should say.
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`23· · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· Got it.
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`24· ·BY MR. GREEN:
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`25· · · · Q.· ·Okay.· All right.
`
`10
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`
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`·1· · · · · · ·One more thing, if I may.· Is there any point
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`·2· ·in our day when you know you will need a break either
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`·3· ·because of a personal reason, which you do not have to
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`·4· ·state now, or some other commitment or something like
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`·5· ·that?
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`·6· · · · A.· ·No, nothing -- nothing planned.
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`·7· · · · Q.· ·All right.· And is there any reason that would
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`·8· ·prevent you from giving complete, truthful -- complete
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`·9· ·and truthful answers to all of the questions and from
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`10· ·participating in the entirety of the deposition?
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`11· · · · A.· ·No.· No, sir.· Nothing would prevent me from
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`12· ·doing that.
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`13· · · · Q.· ·Okay.· Very well.
`
`14· · · · · · ·Would you please give me a description of what
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`15· ·you did to prepare for today's deposition?
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`16· · · · A.· ·I read over my report.· I looked at the
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`17· ·patent, and I looked at Okamura and Belitz once again
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`18· ·just to refresh.· I spoke with counsel.· That's the
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`19· ·extent of what comes to mind.
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`20· · · · Q.· ·Which counsel did you speak with or meet with?
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`21· · · · A.· ·Mr. Werber and Ms. Hay&es, Jennifer Hayes.
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`22· · · · Q.· ·All right.· Very well.
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`23· · · · · · ·And how long did you meet with Mr. Werber
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`24· ·and/or Ms. Hayes?
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`25· · · · A.· ·Maybe five or six hours altogether over the
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`11
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`·1· ·course of a few days.
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`·2· · · · Q.· ·When was the last or most recent of those
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`·3· ·meetings?
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`·4· · · · A.· ·I just spoke with Mr. Werber this morning. A
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`·5· ·little earlier today.
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`·6· · · · Q.· ·Do you have copies of the report -- the report
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`·7· ·that you referenced available to you at the present
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`·8· ·time?
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`·9· · · · A.· ·No, sir.· I don't have a physical copy. I
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`10· ·could open up an electronic copy, but I currently don't
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`11· ·have anything in front of me.
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`12· · · · Q.· ·It's okay.· I'm just trying to get a sense of
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`13· ·what materials you have at the moment that you intend or
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`14· ·may intend to reference.· So we'll certainly introduce
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`15· ·exhibits as the day goes on.
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`16· · · · A.· ·Okay.
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`17· · · · Q.· ·All right.· Who assisted you in writing your
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`18· ·declaration?
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`19· · · · · · ·MR. WERBER:· Objection.· Form.
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`20· · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· So the declaration was something
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`21· ·that is, to the best of my ability, I wrote with -- to
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`22· ·express the opinions that I have, but counsel did help
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`23· ·me, you know, with wordsmithing and putting the report
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`24· ·together.· And so I can -- you know, Mr. Werber,
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`25· ·Ms. Hayes, Mr. Christopher, these are all attorneys who,
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`12
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`·1· ·you know, helped me with sort of putting this document
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`·2· ·together.
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`·3· ·BY MR. GREEN:
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`·4· · · · Q.· ·All right.· And when you say that Mr. Werber,
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`·5· ·Ms. Hayes, and Mr. Christopher may have helped you with
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`·6· ·wordsmithing your declaration, what do you mean by that?
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`·7· · · · A.· ·So as an example, you know, there may be,
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`·8· ·like, formatting concerns or, as we would discuss, you
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`·9· ·know, certain topics, making sure that my opinion was
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`10· ·carried through, and we would write it sometimes
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`11· ·collaboratively over Zoom.· I would phrase things the
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`12· ·way I thought was most clear.· They may suggest, you
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`13· ·know, that something was unclear and that I could refine
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`14· ·it to make sure it fully expressed my opinion.
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`15· · · · · · ·So there was assistance made to make sure that
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`16· ·it was consistent with a report that would be useful for
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`17· ·a legal matter like this.
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`18· · · · Q.· ·Can you give me an example of the type of
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`19· ·opinions that were wordsmithed by Mr. Werber or
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`20· ·Ms. Hayes or Mr. Christopher to make them more clear?
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`21· · · · · · ·MR. WERBER:· Objection.· Form.· And I'd also
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`22· ·caution the witness not to reveal the specifics of any
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`23· ·particular -- the content of any discussions with
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`24· ·counsel.
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`25
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`13
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`·1· ·BY MR. GREEN:
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`·2· · · · Q.· ·You may answer.
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`·3· · · · A.· ·So in an attempt not to try to reveal
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`·4· ·anything, you know, as an example, the difference
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`·5· ·between anticipation and obviousness.
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`·6· · · · · · ·Does obviousness stem from a -- a prior art
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`·7· ·reference, or is it just, you know, in and of itself,
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`·8· ·based on the knowledge of an individual in the field?
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`·9· ·Certainly things that I, as a nonlawyer, would benefit
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`10· ·from understanding better what the actual legal
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`11· ·semantics are around these terms.
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`12· · · · · · ·To the extent that you said wordsmithing my
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`13· ·opinion or changing something, it wasn't -- nothing
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`14· ·changed the nature of what my opinion was.· It was
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`15· ·merely just trying to make sure that I used legal
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`16· ·terminology correctly in expressing my opinion.
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`17· · · · Q.· ·Okay.· So I guess my question was, which of
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`18· ·the opinions were subject to this particular type of
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`19· ·wordsmithing?
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`20· · · · A.· ·I wouldn't say any of these --
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`21· · · · · · ·MR. WERBER:· Same objection.· Same
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`22· ·instruction.
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`23· · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· Sorry.· I didn't give you time
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`24· ·for that.
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`25· · · · · · ·I wouldn't say any of my opinions were
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`14
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`·1· ·altered.· I would just say that in terms of drafting a
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`·2· ·document, if something, you know, wasn't clear or wasn't
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`·3· ·expressed in a clear manner because of the legal jargon,
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`·4· ·you know, there may have been suggestions that were
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`·5· ·made.
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`·6· · · · · · ·I can't remember off the top of my head, you
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`·7· ·know, the details of each different draft that we put
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`·8· ·together, nor do I think I'm supposed to discuss that.
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`·9· ·But I can just say with absolute certainty that the
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`10· ·opinions expressed in that report are my opinions.
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`11· ·BY MR. GREEN:
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`12· · · · Q.· ·All right.· Has there been any change in your
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`13· ·opinion since you wrote the declaration?
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`14· · · · A.· ·No, sir.
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`15· · · · Q.· ·And quickly, what is your role at UCLA?
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`16· · · · A.· ·I'm a professor in the Department of Computer
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`17· ·Science, and I'm currently serving as the undergraduate
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`18· ·vice chair.
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`19· · · · Q.· ·All right.· And do you have teaching
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`20· ·responsibilities?
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`21· · · · A.· ·Yes.
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`22· · · · Q.· ·What classes do you -- have you taught in the
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`23· ·last two or three years?
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`24· · · · A.· ·In the last two years -- I've actually been
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`25· ·serving as graduate and undergraduate vice chair -- not
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`15
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`·1· ·at the same time, but over the past, I would say, three
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`·2· ·or four years.· I've had some service position that's
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`·3· ·precluded me from having to teach one class a year.
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`·4· · · · · · ·So right now, I teach -- at least over the
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`·5· ·last two to three years, I teach two main classes.· One
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`·6· ·of them is the third in the intro series of computer
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`·7· ·science.· It's called Computer Organization.· And the
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`·8· ·second is an upper-level undergraduate class on
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`·9· ·microprocessors.
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`10· · · · Q.· ·All right.· Over the course of your career in
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`11· ·academia, what types of courses have you taught?· I'm
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`12· ·not asking for the course numbers and catalog numbers.
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`13· ·I mean subject matter-wise, what types of courses have
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`14· ·you taught?
`
`15· · · · A.· ·I've taught classes, in addition to the ones
`
`16· ·I've discussed now, on parallel computing, classes on
`
`17· ·computer architecture, classes on distributive
`
`18· ·computing.· I've -- let's see.· Included in that has
`
`19· ·been a large amount of content on graphics design
`
`20· ·particularly for -- you know, with respect to the
`
`21· ·microprocessor or the graphics processing unit and
`
`22· ·looking at application-specific execution.
`
`23· · · · Q.· ·When did you begin your career in academia?
`
`24· · · · A.· ·So I mean, not counting the PhD, you know, I
`
`25· ·started my job as a professor in 2001.
`
`16
`
`
`
`·1· · · · Q.· ·At UCLA?
`
`·2· · · · A.· ·Yes, sir.
`
`·3· · · · · · ·(Court reporter requested clarification.)
`
`·4· ·BY MR. GREEN:
`
`·5· · · · Q.· ·All right.· The courses that you described
`
`·6· ·teaching earlier, were those all courses during your
`
`·7· ·tenure at UCLA?
`
`·8· · · · A.· ·So -- okay.· So you're saying during my
`
`·9· ·tenure, not when I had tenure.
`
`10· · · · Q.· ·I realized that was a term of art when I said
`
`11· ·it, so let me --
`
`12· · · · · · ·During your time at UCLA --
`
`13· · · · A.· ·Yes.
`
`14· · · · Q.· ·-- are the courses that you described the
`
`15· ·things that you have taught and participated in with the
`
`16· ·graduate and undergraduate students at that university?
`
`17· · · · A.· ·I think you asked about teaching.· So as far
`
`18· ·as other things that I've participated in, I -- that
`
`19· ·would not be a complete list.· But as far as the
`
`20· ·official UCLA classes that I've taught, I believe that's
`
`21· ·a complete list.
`
`22· · · · Q.· ·I did not mean to limit your work at UCLA to
`
`23· ·simply those courses.· I was simply asking if those
`
`24· ·courses were taught during your time at UCLA.
`
`25· · · · A.· ·Yes, sir.
`
`17
`
`
`
`·1· · · · Q.· ·Thank you.
`
`·2· · · · · · ·MR. GREEN:· All right.· Let me move an exhibit
`
`·3· ·into the chat, if I may.· And for the record, this is
`
`·4· ·going to be what is known in the proceeding as
`
`·5· ·Exhibit 1001.· It is a copy of the '228 patent.
`
`·6· · · · · · · · · (Whereupon Exhibit 1001 was referenced.)
`
`·7· · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· In the spirit of full
`
`·8· ·disclosure, I have received that over the chat, and I
`
`·9· ·have opened it in Acrobat.
`
`10· · · · · · ·MR. GREEN:· That's quite all right.· I was
`
`11· ·going to ask you when you had it available to you.
`
`12· · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· Yeah.
`
`13· ·BY MR. GREEN:
`
`14· · · · Q.· ·All right.· Dr. Reinman, I assume you've read
`
`15· ·the '228 patent?
`
`16· · · · A.· ·Yes, sir.
`
`17· · · · Q.· ·When was the last time you reviewed it?
`
`18· · · · A.· ·I looked at it yesterday.
`
`19· · · · Q.· ·All right.· Are you familiar with the term
`
`20· ·"People View" as that term is used in that specification
`
`21· ·and claims of the '228 patent?
`
`22· · · · A.· ·Yes, sir.
`
`23· · · · Q.· ·Which figure do you believe represents or
`
`24· ·illustrates the "People View" as that term is used in
`
`25· ·that '228 patent?
`
`18
`
`
`
`·1· · · · A.· ·So I think I would -- I would -- there may be
`
`·2· ·figures that illustrate certain embodiments or maybe
`
`·3· ·capture examples of a People view, but I think -- and
`
`·4· ·I'm happy to look through them and kind of talk through
`
`·5· ·them.
`
`·6· · · · · · ·But if I were looking for what defines the
`
`·7· ·People View, I would look to the claims where the People
`
`·8· ·View is recited with all limitations that are -- that
`
`·9· ·are a part of that.· So I --
`
`10· · · · Q.· ·Go ahead, please.
`
`11· · · · A.· ·I'm sorry.· I was just going to say that I
`
`12· ·would say the claims are more clarifying than perhaps
`
`13· ·the figures.
`
`14· · · · Q.· ·Okay.· What do you understand the meaning of
`
`15· ·the term "People View" to be?
`
`16· · · · · · ·MR. WERBER:· Objection.· Form.
`
`17· · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· So in terms of the claims at
`
`18· ·issue in this investigation, I would look to claim one
`
`19· ·where "the People View includes," and then there's a
`
`20· ·certain set of things.
`
`21· · · · · · ·I mean, I'm happy to read that in.· But I
`
`22· ·would say that that -- you know, the elements of claim
`
`23· ·one that are recited as part of the People View are --
`
`24· ·are certainly what I would say defines the People view.
`
`25
`
`19
`
`
`
`·1· ·BY MR. GREEN:
`
`·2· · · · Q.· ·So just so there's no mistaking what you had
`
`·3· ·in mind when you refer to the claims, I need to ask a
`
`·4· ·follow-up question, and the question is this:
`
`·5· ·Specifically, what requirements do you associate with
`
`·6· ·the term "People View" as that term is used in the '228
`
`·7· ·patent claims?
`
`·8· · · · A.· ·Okay.
`
`·9· · · · · · ·MR. WERBER:· Objection.· Form.· Foundation.
`
`10· · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· So I would say, you know, that
`
`11· ·claim one lists -- and I'm happy to read this into the
`
`12· ·record.· I don't want to monopolize time, but if that's
`
`13· ·something you would like me to do, I'm happy to do it.
`
`14· · · · · · ·MR. GREEN:· Go ahead.
`
`15· · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· The claim one lists out, you
`
`16· ·know, the People view including, and then lists I, II,
`
`17· ·II, and IV in Roman numerals into the claim, and those
`
`18· ·are, as we're talking about, things that the People View
`
`19· ·is required to provide.
`
`20· ·BY MR. GREEN:
`
`21· · · · Q.· ·Okay.· Well, then, I understand you're
`
`22· ·attempting to use some shorthand here and ostensibly for
`
`23· ·the -- I guess the purpose of conserving time, but I'm
`
`24· ·going to err on the side of accuracy here, so I need to
`
`25· ·ask the question again.
`
`20
`
`
`
`·1· · · · · · ·And my question is this:· Specifically, what
`
`·2· ·are the requirements, in your view, of the claim term
`
`·3· ·"People View" as it is used in the '228 patent?
`
`·4· · · · · · ·MR. WERBER:· Objection.· Form.· Foundation.
`
`·5· · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· Okay.· So the requirements
`
`·6· ·are -- and, I mean, I would read the entirety of claim
`
`·7· ·one to make sure that all of the context is present.
`
`·8· · · · · · ·But, you know, the People view including:· I,
`
`·9· ·a first person selectable thumbnail image including a
`
`10· ·representation of a face of a first person.· The first
`
`11· ·person being associated with a third set of digital
`
`12· ·files, including digital photographs and videos.
`
`13· · · · · · ·II, a first name associated with the first
`
`14· ·person.· The first name being displayed adjacent to the
`
`15· ·first person selectable thumbnail image.
`
`16· · · · · · ·III, a second person selectable thumbnail
`
`17· ·image, including a representation of a face of a second
`
`18· ·person.· The second person being associated with a
`
`19· ·fourth set of digital files, including digital --
`
`20· · · · · · ·(Court reporter requested clarification.)
`
`21· · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· -- fourth set of digital files,
`
`22· ·including digital photographs and videos.
`
`23· · · · · · ·And, IV, a second name associated with the
`
`24· ·second person.· A second name being displayed adjacent
`
`25· ·to the second person selectable thumbnail image.
`
`21
`
`
`
`·1· · · · · · ·And like I said, you know, I'm happy to do
`
`·2· ·this as well.· I just -- I don't know, you know, how
`
`·3· ·much more.· But I can read the entirety of claim one,
`
`·4· ·which gives the full context.· But to me, at least those
`
`·5· ·things need to be satisfied by the People view as -- as
`
`·6· ·required by this claim.
`
`·7· ·BY MR. GREEN:
`
`·8· · · · Q.· ·Okay.· What other language in claim one do you
`
`·9· ·believe represents the requirement of the term "People
`
`10· ·View"?
`
`11· · · · · · ·MR. WERBER:· Objection.· Form.· Foundation.
`
`12· ·BY MR. GREEN:
`
`13· · · · Q.· ·You may answer.
`
`14· · · · A.· ·Well, in the context of this claim element
`
`15· ·responsive to a second input that is subsequent to the
`
`16· ·first input causing a People View to be displayed on the
`
`17· ·interface gives some color as to what would cause the
`
`18· ·People view to be displayed.
`
`19· · · · Q.· ·So, sir, I understand you're using the term
`
`20· ·"color," but I'm asking specifically about requirements.
`
`21· · · · · · ·What other language of claim one represents a
`
`22· ·requirement of the claim term "People View"?
`
`23· · · · · · ·MR. WERBER:· Objection.· Form.· Foundation.
`
`24· · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· So I guess, in my mind, one of
`
`25· ·the requirements is when the People View is displayed,
`
`22
`
`
`
`·1· ·and the People View is displayed responsive to a second
`
`·2· ·input that is subsequent to the first input causing a
`
`·3· ·People View to be displayed on the interface.
`
`·4· ·BY MR. GREEN:
`
`·5· · · · Q.· ·All right.· And would you agree with me that
`
`·6· ·there are instances where some additional input beyond
`
`·7· ·the user input may be required to cause the People view
`
`·8· ·to occur?
`
`·9· · · · · · ·MR. WERBER:· Objection.· Form.· Foundation.
`
`10· ·Scope.
`
`11· · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· So I -- I'm not sure what you
`
`12· ·mean.· In this case, it says, "Responsive to a second
`
`13· ·input that causes the People view to be displayed."
`
`14· · · · · · ·If you're saying, you know, could there be
`
`15· ·other inputs that are not causal and that are associated
`
`16· ·with other things, I understand that.
`
`17· · · · · · ·But in this case, it's clearly stating that
`
`18· ·the second input causes the People view to be displayed.
`
`19· ·It doesn't numerate other inputs, nor does the spec
`
`20· ·provide any indicia that there would be second --
`
`21· ·additional inputs.· So I don't -- I don't see that here.
`
`22· ·BY MR. GREEN:
`
`23· · · · Q.· ·Okay.· Are there any other -- this definition
`
`24· ·of the term "People View" that you are providing, is
`
`25· ·that the definition of People View as it is used in all
`
`23
`
`
`
`·1· ·of the claims of the '228 patent?
`
`·2· · · · · · ·MR. WERBER:· Same objections.
`
`·3· · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· I -- every other claim in this
`
`·4· ·patent is a dependent claim.· So I think it's fair to
`
`·5· ·say that the method here, that -- that any of the claims
`
`·6· ·at issue in this investigation or in this patent would
`
`·7· ·derive and use People View at least including the
`
`·8· ·restrictions that are put in claim one.
`
`·9· ·BY MR. GREEN:
`
`10· · · · Q.· ·Okay.· Would you look with me at figure 32 of
`
`11· ·the '228 patent, please?
`
`12· · · · A.· ·Yes.
`
`13· · · · Q.· ·All right.· Does figure 32 of the '228 patent
`
`14· ·show a People View?
`
`15· · · · A.· ·I think I gave this as an example in my
`
`16· ·report.
`
`17· · · · · · ·Can I see my report, please?
`
`18· · · · Q.· ·Yes.· If you have it on your machine, you're
`
`19· ·welcome to open it.· But before you do, I need to ask
`
`20· ·this question:· Are there any annotations or notes on
`
`21· ·the copy of the report that you would be opening?
`
`22· · · · A.· ·No, sir.
`
`23· · · · Q.· ·All right.· So if you have a copy of your
`
`24· ·declaration, then you may open it.
`
`25· · · · A.· ·Okay.· I have opened a copy of my declaration.
`
`24
`
`
`
`·1· ·No annotation.· I think this is exactly as served, but
`
`·2· ·there's certainly no -- there's no annotation on it.
`
`·3· ·Excuse me.
`
`·4· · · · · · ·Yes, I think -- I would say that figure 32
`
`·5· ·represents an example of a People View.
`
`·6· · · · Q.· ·Okay.· All right.· Looking at figure 2 [sic],
`
`·7· ·what input is required to enable display of the People
`
`·8· ·View?
`
`·9· · · · A.· ·I think you may have said figure 2, but I'm
`
`10· ·pretty sure you mean figure 32, right?
`
`11· · · · Q.· ·I may have been -- I may have poorly
`
`12· ·enunciated my statement, but I'll say it again so we
`
`13· ·have a clear record.
`
`14· · · · · · ·Looking at the People View shown in figure 32
`
`15· ·of the '228 patent, what input is required to enable
`
`16· ·display of that People View?
`
`17· · · · · · ·MR. WERBER:· Objection.· Form.· Foundation.
`
`18· · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· So in terms of the spec, the
`
`19· ·spec talks about this view can be seen, meaning this
`
`20· ·People View when talking about figure 32, by selecting,
`
`21· ·quote, "People," which is labeled 1401, from any of the
`
`22· ·application views within the application.
`
`23· · · · · · ·And so it seems like the selection of
`
`24· ·"People," which I think is highlighted in black in this
`
`25· ·figure right now, would be what caused the People view
`
`25
`
`
`
`·1· ·to be displayed.
`
`·2· ·BY MR. GREEN:
`
`·3· · · · Q.· ·Okay.· What happens when a user selects button
`
`·4· ·1402 -- well, withdrawn.
`
`·5· · · · · · ·Do you see the button labeled "1402" in figure
`
`·6· ·32?
`
`·7· · · · A.· ·Yes, sir, I do see that.
`
`·8· · · · Q.· ·All right.· And what is the label on button
`
`·9· ·1402 in figure 32?
`
`10· · · · · · ·MR. WERBER:· Objection.· Scope.
`
`11· · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· The label on the button is, I
`
`12· ·guess, "Sort By."· It's a drop-down, which I guess is --
`
`13· ·BY MR. GREEN:
`
`14· · · · Q.· ·It's a drop-down list, not a button.
`
`15· · · · A.· ·Yes.
`
`16· · · · Q.· ·Okay.· All right.· So if we look at the
`
`17· ·element of figure 22 labeled 1402, we see a drop-down
`
`18· ·list labeled, "Sort By," and the sort criteria displayed
`
`19· ·is, "Newest to Oldest"; is that fair?
`
`20· · · · · · ·MR. WERBER:· Objection.· Scope.
`
`21· · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· That is displayed, fair.
`
`22· ·BY MR. GREEN:
`
`23· · · · Q.· ·Okay.· What happens in figure -- the People
`
`24· ·view of figure 32 when the user selects the "Sort By"
`
`25· ·criteria of "Newest to Oldest" labeled as element 1402?
`
`26
`
`
`
`·1· · · · · · ·MR. WERBER:· Same objection.
`
`·2· · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· The patent states the people can
`
`·3· ·be listed in various sort orders through a drop-down.
`
`·4· ·This says -- it says boa [phonetic] drop-down, but I'm
`
`·5· ·pretty sure it means through a drop-down.· 1402 such as
`
`·6· ·newest to oldest; oldest to newest; alphabetical, Z to
`
`·7· ·A; or A to Z, alphabetical.
`
`·8· ·BY MR. GREEN:
`
`·9· · · · Q.· ·Am I correct that the display of photographs
`
`10· ·in figure 32 will or may change according to the "Sort
`
`11· ·By" criterion that is selected by the user?
`
`12· · · · · · ·MR. WERBER:· Objection.· Scope.
`
`13· · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· I don't know that I have delved
`
`14· ·into this to be able to make a determination. I
`
`15· ·definitely didn't include this in my report in order to
`
`16· ·respond to Dr. Greenspun in seeing this, but it may be.
`
`17· ·I'm not sure.
`
`18· ·BY MR. GREEN:
`
`19· · · · Q.· ·Okay.· What is the -- all right.· So I'm going
`
`20· ·to be asking you -- just some full disclosure, my career
`
`21· ·in software development was mercifully short for all
`
`22· ·involved, so I'd have to ask you for some guidance here
`
`23· ·based on your experience.· And if I may, I'd like to
`
`24· ·start with you.
`
`25· · · · · · ·So to someone of experience and skill in the
`
`27
`
`
`
`·1· ·software development field, what is the purpose of a
`
`·2· ·drop-down list like element 1402 in figure 32, the
`
`·3· ·drop-down list containing things like criteria for
`
`·4· ·sorting?
`
`·5· · · · · · ·MR. WERBER:· Objection.· Form.· Foundation.
`
`·6· ·Scope.
`
`·7· · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· So in general, a drop-down list
`
`·8· ·is a way for a user to choose between a number of fixed
`
`·9· ·options.
`
`10· ·BY MR. GREEN:
`
`11· · · · Q.· ·Okay.· And in figure 32, if the user chooses
`
`12· ·among options for displaying the photographs available
`
`13· ·in the People View, what would one rationally expect to
`
`14· ·happen to the display of those photographs?
`
`15· · · · · · ·MR. WERBER:· Same objections.
`
`16· · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· Again, I guess I didn't really
`
`17· ·delve into this.· It looks like the patent says the
`
`18· ·people can be listed in various sort orders through a
`
`19· ·drop-down.
`
`20· · · · · · ·And so without delving more and reading into
`
`21· ·the spec to see if there's more detail on this, that's
`
`22· ·the only piece of information that I have.· So perhaps
`
`23· ·it provides a sort ordering.· I don't know.
`
`24· ·BY MR. GREEN:
`
`25· · · · Q.· ·Okay.· Would changing the sort ordering of the
`
`28
`
`
`
`·1· ·photogr
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