throbber
IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
`FOR THE EASTERN DISTRICT OF TEXAS
`
`MARSHALL DIVISION
`
`BRIGHT DATA, LTD.,
`
`Plaintiff,
`
`(
`)
`(
`
`CAUSE NO. 2:19-CV-395-JRG
`
`vs.
`
`TESO, LT UAB, et al
`
`Defendants,
`
`NOVEMBER 1, 2021
`MARSHALL, TEXAS
`9:00 A.M.
`
`and a jury 16
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8 9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`VOLUME 1
`
`TRIAL ON THE MERITS
`
`BEFORE THE HONORABLE RODNEY GILSTRAP
`
`UNITED STATES CHIEF DISTRICT JUDGE
`
`SHAWN M. McROBERTS, RMR, CRR
`100 E. HOUSTON STREET
`MARSHALL, TEXAS
`75670
`(903) 237-7464
`shawn_mcroberts@txed.uscourts.gov
`
`The Data Company Technologies Inc. v. Bright Data Ltd.
`PR2022-00139, EX 00
`
`Shawn M. McRoberts TheRMRGonPR¥TechnologiesInc, v. Bright Data Ltd.
`Federal Official Court Reporter
`IPR2022-00136, tO°o
`
`

`

`about
`
`twice the speed that you would get regularly at home.
`
`And that was not good enough for what we were looking for,
`
`so
`
`we started looking for other ways to use that residential
`
`network we had created, and that's it.
`
`Q.
`
`Okay. Did you find some other ways to utilize that
`
`network?
`
`A.
`
`Yeah.
`
`It took a little time, but we found out the
`
`internet was growing,
`
`a lot of information was online, people
`
`started using it, and the questions of privacy were starting
`
`to rise, and the VPNs started to appear, and we realized that
`
`with this residential network we can build a VPN solution that
`
`would be a lot more private than anything that was available
`
`at the time.
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`And what is a VPN?
`
`A VPN is a virtual private network that,
`
`in effect, hides
`
`you from the sites you are visiting.
`
`They can't know who you
`
`267 1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`are.
`
`Q.
`
`And how is the Hola VPN any different than any other VPN
`
`at the time?
`
`A. Well, it was very different, and in order to understand
`
`how different it was, you have to realize that when you visit
`
`the page on the internet,
`
`like an Amazon product page or an
`
`article on Fox News,
`
`that page is built from hundreds of small
`
`pieces. Like a headline,
`
`a button, a piece of graphics, an
`
`image, it's all small pieces that are put together to build
`
`The Data Company Technologies Inc. v. Bright Data Ltd.
`IPR2022-00135, % aoe
`
`Shawn M. McRoberts TheR&MRGonPRRTechnologiesInc, v. Bright Data Ltd.
`Federal Official Court Reporter
`IPR2022-00138, Om eee
`
`

`

`the VPN that you connected to from your VPN provider, and they
`
`268 1
`
`home addresses.
`
`Q.
`
`Okay. And let me stop you a minute. And is that the
`
`The Data Company Technologies Inc. v. Bright Data Ltd.
`Shawn M. McRoberts TheR&MRGonPRRTechnologiesInc, v. Bright Data Ltd.
`IPR2022-00135, No Federal Official Court Reporter
`IPR2022-00138, ms eee
`
`that page. And when you use a regular VPN all those hundreds
`
`of small pieces are requested from the same single server of
`
`all went together from the same server,
`
`same address,
`
`through
`
`the website. And,
`
`indeed, you were hidden from that website,
`
`but they could still see that this page was loaded, it came
`
`from an address that was not a home user. And they could even
`
`figure out which VPN server you were using.
`
`So eventually if enough -- given which authorities were
`
`involved and -- you could trace back what you were doing
`
`because they knew which door to knock on.
`
`They knew which VPN
`
`provider you were using,
`
`so they could eventually trace back
`
`that option that was on the table.
`
`And when we're using Hola VPN, what happens is that all
`
`these hundreds of small pieces,
`
`they were being spread out
`
`through millions of people, each one from a different person.
`
`I mean,
`
`that headline was coming from someone from Louisiana;
`
`I don't know, another piece from Los Angeles, New York,
`
`Boston.
`
`It's all coming together from different places. And
`
`when that website looked at what just happened,
`
`they couldn't
`
`figure out what this was.
`
`I mean,
`
`they can't trace it back.
`
`It's all residential IPs.
`
`They can't block it.
`
`They can't
`
`understand even that you use the VPN service because it's all
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`

`

`difference that the IPs were all residential IPs as opposed to
`
`something else?
`
`269 1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`A.
`
`Yeah.
`
`It's not a corporate address; it's all residential
`
`IPs and you couldn't piece out together where they are coming
`
`from and who is using it and why.
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`Is that how you distinguished Hola VPN from other VPNs?
`
`Yeah.
`
`You have to understand that that's a whole
`
`different level of privacy, because not only you are hidden
`
`from the site, not only you are hidden from the website,
`
`they
`
`can't even know that you are using a service like a VPN
`
`service, and they can't figure out even what you were
`
`accessing on the website because all of those small pieces
`
`came from different places,
`
`they can't even know what you did
`
`there.
`
`So that's a whole with different level of privacy.
`
`Q.
`
`Was that successful in that a lot of people wanted to
`
`utilize that service?
`
`A.
`
`Yeah, it was extremely successful.
`
`As soon as it started
`
`to work, a lot of people started to download it.
`
`It was very
`
`successful. And without even using any marketing or ads, it
`
`just spread out.
`
`People were starting to use it and it became
`
`very successful.
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`And was that a money-making project?
`
`No. Mr. Vilenski and Mr. Shribman decided that we should
`
`not monetize this technology, it should be free, and from that
`
`day up until now Hola VPN is a free service to everyone. And
`
`The Data Company Technologies Inc. v. Bright Data Ltd.
`IPR2022-00135, ~ aoe
`
`Shawn M. McRoberts TheR&MRGonPRRTechnologiesInc, v. Bright Data Ltd.
`Federal Official Court Reporter
`IPR2022-00138, om eee
`
`

`

`we needed to keep looking for something else, another way to
`
`use that technology to make money.
`
`Q.
`
`And did you ultimately find another way to utilize that
`
`technology?
`
`A.
`
`Yeah, we did.
`
`Soon after that, we ran into something
`
`issue with being private -- with the privacy on the network,
`
`which was a little surprising, but we found out that as the
`
`internet grew and all these retailers and services,
`
`they all
`
`put their products on the network, everything was open. And
`
`as they always did, competitors looked at each other's
`
`information,
`
`the products,
`
`the prices, and they were competing
`
`and that opened, and free competition is good for all of us
`
`because it lowers down the prices.
`
`But what started to happen is that these companies,
`
`they
`
`started to see who is going on their website.
`
`They said,
`
`Okay,
`
`this is a competitor;
`
`I'm going to block them;
`
`I'm not
`
`going to let them see these prices. And that hurt
`
`competition.
`
`that surprised us. We realized that businesses have a similar
`
`270 1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`q
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`And they realized that if they go through our residential
`
`network,
`
`they can see all of this free competition is back
`
`online and they can make the business decisions that would
`
`help them compete.
`
`Q.
`
`And is that what Bright Data refers to as a residential
`
`proxy network?
`
`The Data Company Technologies Inc. v. Bright Data Ltd.
`Shawn M. McRoberts TheR&MRGonPRRTechnologiesInc, v. Bright Data Ltd.
`IPR2022-00135, en Federal Official Court Reporter
`IPR2022-00138, em. eee
`
`

`

`A.
`
`Yeah.
`
`So when we realized that, we built a proxy
`
`interface above this residential network so that businesses
`
`can access the network and collect that information, and that
`
`became our residential proxy network.
`
`Q.
`
`And is that for use by businesses,
`
`though, as opposed to
`
`individuals,
`
`for the most part?
`
`A.
`
`Yeah. That was used by businesses, and we -- and it
`
`provided the huge value for them, and we realized that this
`
`value can be monetized, something -- it's a service that we
`
`271 1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`can charge money for.
`
`Q.
`
`And can you give us an example or two of why a business
`
`would want to utilize this residential proxy network of yours?
`
`A.
`
`Yeah.
`
`So as I said, retail competition,
`
`that was very
`
`obvious. But as we grew, we found a lot more uses for that
`
`network, which also surprised us,
`
`like social networks that
`
`were relying on ads for their revenue. And each ad that was
`
`submitted,
`
`they validated that it's legal, content is not
`
`hurtful for the users, and -- but what happened is that there
`
`were bad players in the ad market, and what they did is that
`
`they checked if the social network companies were watching
`
`their ad,
`
`they gave them this valid legal ad, and if home
`
`users were watching that ad,
`
`they got this illegal content now
`
`where phishing sites all these things that were illegal. And
`
`that became a real big problem for them, and they realized
`
`that if they access those ads through our network they would
`
`The Data Company Technologies Inc. v. Bright Data Ltd.
`IPR2022-00135, ener
`
`Shawn M. McRoberts TheR&MRGonPRRTechnologiesInc, v. Bright Data Ltd.
`Federal Official Court Reporter
`IPR2022-00138, em. eee
`
`

`

`see it as home users and they would be able to block all these
`
`bad players.
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`Okay.
`
`Can you give us one more example, briefly?
`
`Sure. Also we had a lot of security companies, big
`
`companies that what
`
`they do is hunt these malware sites,
`
`phishing sites, all this illegal content that is hurting
`
` 272
`
`people. And they had a similar problem that these hackers
`
`that build these sites,
`
`they were detecting that someone from
`
`corporate is watching the site,
`
`they would give them a content
`
`that was legal and good, while people from home that watched
`
`the site got that hacking site that could steal your
`
`information, and they were unable to track them down.
`
`They
`
`were hiding from them. And when they accessed those sites
`
`through our network,
`
`the residential network,
`
`they could see
`
`the real content and they could bring them down.
`
`Q.
`
`And how long did it take you-all to develop this
`
`residential proxy network on top of the time that you spent
`
`building Hola VPN?
`
`A.
`
`It took almost
`
`two years to get that infrastructure in
`
`place.
`
`Q.
`
`And what are the steps a business, at least initially,
`
`would take -- if you can describe to the jury that a business
`
`takes to utilize your system. What do they have to do?
`
`A. Well,
`
`they have to obviously register with our service,
`
`they get a username and password, and they would start sending
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`The Data Company Technologies Inc. v. Bright Data Ltd.
`IPR2022-00135, ~ aoe
`
`Shawn M. McRoberts TheR&MRGonPRRTechnologiesInc, v. Bright Data Ltd.
`Federal Official Court Reporter
`IPR2022-00138, ms eee
`
`

`

`super proxies.
`
`Q.
`
`Okay.
`
`MR. THOMPSON: Mr. Wilson, can we have the next
`
`slide?
`
`their requests for web information to our servers that we call
`
`273 1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`Q.
`
`(BY MR. THOMPSON) Mr. Kol, do you recognize this graph
`
`here that's PDX 2.2?
`
`A.
`
`Yeah. That's a diagram of the Bright Data network of
`
`servers and all their connections between them.
`
`Q.
`
`Is this representative of Bright Data's system here as we
`
`sit here today?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`Yeah. That's fairly updated.
`
`And who -- do you know who drew this graph here?
`
`I did that.
`
`All right. And it has a lot of different parts, arrows.
`
`It seems fairly complicated to me.
`
`Do you consider your
`
`system complex?
`
`A.
`
`Yes, it's a very complex system.
`
`You have to understand
`
`that on this side on the right side was where the residential
`
`network exists.
`
`It's already the size of tens of millions of
`
`devices. And these devices go on and offline every second.
`
`They have a good internet connectivity,
`
`they have a bad
`
`network connectivity, and this changes all the time.
`
`It's a
`
`very dynamic network.
`
`And, on the other hand, we have thousands of customers
`
`The Data Company Technologies Inc. v. Bright Data Ltd.
`Shawn M. McRoberts TheR&MRGonPRRTechnologiesInc, v. Bright Data Ltd.
`IPR2022-00135, Oo Federal Official Court Reporter
`IPR2022-00138, . eee
`
`

`

`that all they want -- they want access their network so they
`
`don't get blocked, but they want a stable connection, a fast
`
`connection, a reliable and with a high success rate.
`
`So
`
`combining those two things it's a very big technological
`
`challenge that we have eventually resolved.
`
`MR. THOMPSON:
`
`Can we bring up the next slide?
`
`Q.
`
`(BY MR. THOMPSON) And this shows the customers or users
`
`on the left side.
`
`Do you see that?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`Yes.
`
`And who are these customers for the residential proxy
`
`network?
`
`A.
`
`They can be any business,
`
`from very small businesses to
`
`large corporates, Fortune 500 companies. We even have a few
`
`from the very top 10.
`
`What do you mean top 10?
`
`274 1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`Top 10 companies of the Fortune 500.
`
`Okay. And where are these customers located?
`
`All over the world; U.S. and other countries.
`
`And how many customers do you have?
`
`To date that's over 10,000.
`
`Okay. And when a customer makes an initial request, what
`
`information is in that request that they provide to Bright
`
`Data?
`
`A. Well,
`
`they provide the username and password for
`
`authentication,
`
`the target domain that they want to access,
`
`The Data Company Technologies Inc. v. Bright Data Ltd.
`IPR2022-00135, ON oro
`
`Shawn M. McRoberts TheR&MRGonPRRTechnologiesInc, v. Bright Data Ltd.
`Federal Official Court Reporter
`IPR2022-00138,
`eee
`
`

`

`275
`
`and the request itself that we need to send.
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`And what is a domain?
`
`A domain is like an address on the internet, similar to
`
`www.amazon.com.
`
`Q.
`
`Okay. And so if they want to make a request to
`
`Amazon.com, what is an example of the information they might
`
`be requesting?
`
`A. Well,
`
`they could be accessing a product page or doing a
`
`search on the site,
`
`things like that.
`
`Looking up the price of
`
`a product.
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`Okay. And once they make that request, where does it go?
`
`It goes to our super proxy.
`
`All right. And is that what's identified here as the
`
`server, Bright Data server?
`
`A.
`
`Right.
`
`:
`
`.
`
`.
`
`.
`
`So it's a super proxy; a server basically?
`
`Yeah.
`
`It's a pool of servers, yeah.
`
`And what does it do?
`
`It takes the request, it authenticates the customer, and
`
`it sends it -- it chooses a residential consumer device and
`
`sends its request onto that site.
`
`Q.
`
`And where are these super proxies of Bright Data's
`
`located? 24
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`25
`
`There are many locations around the world.
`
`And how many of them do you have?
`
`The Data Company Technologies Inc. v. Bright Data Ltd.
`IPR2022-00135, a aoe
`
`Shawn M. McRoberts TheR&MRGonPRRTechnologiesInc, v. Bright Data Ltd.
`Federal Official Court Reporter
`IPR2022-00138, ON ree
`
`

`

`A.
`
`Q.
`
`Over 12,000 servers.
`
`Okay.
`
`So once the server gets the request,
`
`then the next
`
`step --
`
`MR. THOMPSON:
`
`If we can see the next slide.
`
`Q.
`
`(BY MR. THOMPSON)
`
`-- is to send that request to a
`
`residential consumer device.
`
`Is that what you're saying?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`Yes.
`
`And what are examples of residential consumer devices?
`
`A. Well, it can be a mobile phone, it can be a laptop, a
`
`desktop computer, even a smart TV.
`
`And where are these residential consumer devices located?
`
`All over the world.
`
`And how many do you have, estimate, as of today?
`
`It's a very dynamic network.
`
`It can be between 40- and
`
`276 1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`70 million devices at a time.
`
`Q.
`
`And why do you need that many devices?
`
`A. Well, now that we have these thousands of customers, over
`
`10,000,
`
`they create an amount of traffic,
`
`a lot of requests
`
`for data that are comparable at the peak times they can do in
`
`one hour more traffic than Google search worldwide traffic
`
`they do in a whole day.
`
`So that's a huge amount of traffic,
`
`and we need to spread it out over a very big network.
`
`Q.
`
`And so if you -- you couldn't run your network,
`
`I guess,
`
`if you had 10,000 consumer devices as opposed to 40 million.
`
`A.
`
`No, absolutely not.
`
`I mean, eventually on such a network
`
`The Data Company Technologies Inc. v. Bright Data Ltd.
`IPR2022-00135, ~ aoe
`
`Shawn M. McRoberts TheR&MRGonPRRTechnologiesInc, v. Bright Data Ltd.
`Federal Official Court Reporter
`IPR2022-00138, ~* eee
`
`

`

`as large as we have,
`
`the target is that a single consumer
`
`device won't transfer more data than is comparable to a couple
`
`of video ads that you see on apps or YouTube in a whole day,
`
`so very small amount of data per device.
`
`Q.
`
`And so how does someone get their consumer device to be a
`
`part of your network?
`
`A. Well,
`
`they would have to install our SDK.
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`And what is an SDK?
`
`An SDK is a software development kit.
`
`It's likea
`
`library that can be imbedded in a different application.
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`And who develops this SDK?
`
`It's developed at Bright Data.
`
`And so how do you get the SDK onto, you know, a phone or
`
`277 1
`
`a laptop or an iPad or something like that?
`
`A.
`
`You would have to install an application that includes
`
`it.
`
`It can be a Bright application or one of our partners.
`
`Q.
`
`Okay. And so if someone chooses to download one of these
`
`apps, are they just automatically part of the network? Or how
`
`does that work? Or do they get to choose?
`
`A.
`
`No. When -- the first time you run the app you get a
`
`consent screen, very clear, it explains who is Bright Data,
`
`what do we do, and it gives you the option to opt in or opt
`
`out.
`
`It's your choice and you can decide.
`
`Q.
`
`So no one's going to be a part of your network or have
`
`their device,
`
`their residential consumer device be a part of
`
`The Data Company Technologies Inc. v. Bright Data Ltd.
`IPR2022-00135, * aoe
`
`Shawn M. McRoberts TheR&MRGonPRRTechnologiesInc, v. Bright Data Ltd.
`Federal Official Court Reporter
`IPR2022-00138, Os eee
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`

`

`your network without agreeing to it.
`
`Is that right?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`That's right.
`
`Okay. And why would they agree to that? Why would they
`
`allow their device to be a part of your network?
`
`A.
`
`We provide a number of benefits in different scenarios.
`
`And some applications are costing money, and if you agree to
`
`be part of the network you'd get it for free.
`
`In other cases
`
`there are applications that are monetized by ads, and if you
`
`agree to be part of the network you'll get it ad-free. And
`
`you can even install one of Bright apps that if you agree to
`
`278 1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`be part of the network you actually can earn real money.
`
`Q.
`
`Okay. And so if someone agrees to have -- they go
`
`through,
`
`they consent,
`
`they agree to be a part of your
`
`network,
`
`is their device being used constantly a hundred
`
`percent of the time by your network?
`
`A.
`
`No. We monitor the device, battery use, memory use, and
`
`we make sure that we don't interrupt the user's day-to-day
`
`activities.
`
`If you are on the phone, if you're streaming a
`
`video, we won't be interrupting. We monitor it very
`
`carefully. And it's only in use when there are free
`
`resources.
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`Okay. What do you mean by free resources?
`
`I mean that there is enough battery,
`
`there is enough free
`
`memory, and you're not doing anything with a device right now.
`
`Q.
`
`And so if I have my phone as part of your network and I'm
`
`The Data Company Technologies Inc. v. Bright Data Ltd.
`IPR2022-00135, MS ebop
`
`Shawn M. McRoberts TheR&MRGonPRRTechnologiesInc, v. Bright Data Ltd.
`Federal Official Court Reporter
`IPR2022-00138, NS eee
`
`

`

`using my phone to make a phone call or whatever, would I ever
`
`know that you're actually using my phone also as part of your
`
`network?
`
`A. Well, if there are free resources and you're just like
`
`browsing or something, you will not notice ever that it's
`
`being used.
`
`279 1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`Q.
`
`And if someone agrees to be a part of the network and
`
`then decides they don't want to be,
`
`they change their mind,
`
`can they opt out or get out of it?
`
`A.
`
`Yeah, you can always opt out.
`
`It's in the menus. That
`
`option is always available.
`
`Q.
`
`Is there ever any risk that the personal
`
`information on
`
`someone's phone or laptop or whatever,
`
`that that's at risk of
`
`being harvested by someone on your network, or is it secure?
`
`A.
`
`Absolutely not.
`
`It's secure. We're not interested in
`
`the device,
`
`the information of the users,
`
`the private
`
`information on the device, we're not interested in it.
`
`It is
`
`always the case just the pipe.
`
`It gets a request, sends it
`
`out, returns the response. We're not interested in anything
`
`else.
`
`And occasionally we invite security companies that
`
`audit this SDK, and they validate that this is exactly what we
`
`do.
`
`Q.
`
`Okay. And so once the consumer device is chosen and it
`
`receives the request, what happens to that request?
`
`A.
`
`Then it is sent to the web server, and the web server
`
`The Data Company Technologies Inc. v. Bright Data Ltd.
`IPR2022-00135, ~* aoe
`
`Shawn M. McRoberts TheR&MRGonPRRTechnologiesInc, v. Bright Data Ltd.
`Federal Official Court Reporter
`IPR2022-00138, Oo eee
`
`

`

`sends its response back, and then it makes all the way in the
`
`proxy, and then all the way back to the customer that sent the
`
`original request.
`
`MR. THOMPSON: And so this final slide here, 2.7.
`
`Q.
`
`(BY MR. THOMPSON)
`
`In your opinion,
`
`is this a fair,
`
`high-level depiction of Bright Data's residential proxy
`
`network?
`
`A.
`
`Yes.
`
`It's very, very simplified, but
`
`in high level it
`
`represents fairly the network.
`
`Q.
`
`And when you-all developed this at Bright Data, were you
`
`aware of any other company having any type of residential
`
`proxy network like this?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`No,
`
`I was not aware.
`
`All right.
`
`Thank you, sir.
`
`same path to the residential consumer device back to the super
`
`280 1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`MR. THOMPSON:
`
`I'll pass the witness, Your Honor.
`
`THE COURT: Cross examination by the Defendants?
`
`Go ahead, Mr. Leventhal.
`
`MR. LEVENTHAL:
`
`Thank you, Your Honor.
`
`CROSS EXAMINATION
`
`BY MR. LEVENTHAL:
`
`Q.
`
`You've been working with Hola and now Bright Data for
`
`over a decade. Correct?
`
`A.
`
`Correct.
`
`And during that time you designed several products.
`
`The Data Company Technologies Inc. v. Bright Data Ltd.
`Shawn M. McRoberts TheRMRGonPRRTechnologies Inc, v. Bright Data Ltd.
`
`R2200130, EN ee=Federal Official Court Reporter R22200138,En
`
`

`

`281 1
`
`the United States. Correct?
`
`A.
`
`Yeah, probably a few thousand even.
`
`The Data Company Technologies Inc. v. Bright Data Ltd.
`IPR2022-00135, OS obop
`
`Shawn M. McRoberts TheR&MRGonPRRTechnologiesInc, v. Bright Data Ltd.
`Federal Official Court Reporter
`IPR2022-00138, os ane
`
`Right?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`Right.
`
`Right. And you'd agree with me that when you are
`
`designing a communication product,
`
`there is countless design
`
`choices that you make along the way. Right?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`Obviously, yeah.
`
`First, you've got do decide on the big picture
`
`architecture,
`
`the boxes and how they are arranged with each
`
`other. Right?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`Yeah, could be.
`
`Okay. And then you need to decide where each of those
`
`boxes are going to be physically located. Right?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`I'm not sure what you mean.
`
`You talked earlier about the super proxies and you made a
`
`decision about where Bright Data puts those around the world.
`
`Right?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`Yeah.
`
`And that was a decision, a design decision you made as
`
`you designed your network. Right?
`
`A.
`
`When we built the interface for the proxy residential
`
`network, yeah.
`
`Q.
`
`And,
`
`in fact, Mr. Kol, you have several hundred
`
`thousand -- excuse me, several hundred super proxies within
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`

`

`Q.
`
`And that's a design choice you made. Another company
`
`with a different residential proxy network could have had a
`
`different design choice and not put servers within the United
`
`States. Correct?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`Yeah, could be.
`
`If they did so, it's still a residential proxy network
`
`just with a different design. Right?
`
`A.
`
`I would have to look at the entire design to be sure, but
`
`it's a choice.
`
`282 1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`Q.
`
`If we could put up your demonstrative PDX 2.8.
`
`Now, having the super proxy at all was a design choice
`
`that you made. Correct?
`
`A.
`
`Yeah, you would need -- the super proxies are the
`
`gateways,
`
`the entry point to the residential network, so they
`
`have to exist in some form.
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`So it's a key part of your architecture. Right?
`
`It's the gateway to enter the residential network.
`
`If the super proxy does not perform its role, Bright Data
`
`couldn't offer its service. Right?
`
`A.
`
`If the super proxy did not exist, customers could not
`
`access the network.
`
`MR. LEVENTHAL: Okay.
`
`So I'd like to now go to
`
`PX 517, please.
`
`Q.
`
`(BY MR. LEVENTHAL)
`
`And this document relates to
`
`something else you discussed with counsel.
`
`You talked about
`
`The Data Company Technologies Inc. v. Bright Data Ltd.
`IPR2022-00135, ~ aoe
`
`Shawn M. McRoberts TheR&MRGonPRRTechnologiesInc, v. Bright Data Ltd.
`Federal Official Court Reporter
`IPR2022-00138,
`eee
`
`

`

`287 1
`
`(The following was had in the presence and hearing
`
`of the jury.)
`
`THE COURT: Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, we're
`
`going to recess for the day at this juncture. There's not
`
`another witness that's ready to be called that won't take at
`
`least a couple of hours,
`
`so we're not going to do that and
`
`start that this afternoon at this point.
`
`Please remember to take your notebooks with you when you
`
`leave the courtroom and go into the jury room.
`
`Please leave
`
`them closed on the table in the jury room so they'll be
`
`available for you tomorrow.
`
`Please remember all the instructions that I've talked
`
`with you about,
`
`including that unless you live alone, when you
`
`get home you're going to be asked what went on today. Don't
`
`even try to answer that question.
`
`Please keep all my
`
`instructions in mind,
`
`including not to communicate in any way
`
`about the case.
`
`Please travel safely to your homes.
`
`I'd like to have you
`
`back in the morning assembled in the jury room before 8:30.
`
`And we'll try to proceed at 8:30, or as close to it as
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`possible.
`
`With that,
`
`ladies and gentlemen, you are excused for the
`
`day.
`
`I'll see you tomorrow morning.
`
`(Whereupon,
`
`the jury left the courtroom.)
`
`The Data Company Technologies Inc. v. Bright Data Ltd.
`IPR2022-00135, NO obop
`
`Shawn M. McRoberts TheR&MRGonPRRTechnologiesInc, v. Bright Data Ltd.
`Federal Official Court Reporter
`IPR2022-00138, ns eee
`
`

`

`288
`
`THE COURT:
`
`Be seated, please.
`
`Counsel, according to my records, we've used 2 hours and
`
`between 30 and 31 minutes today.
`
`I've allocated that an hour
`
`and almost 28 minutes, an hour and 27 minutes and 45 seconds
`
`to the Plaintiff, and the Defendants have used an hour and 2
`
`minutes and 56 seconds, call it an hour and 3 minutes.
`
`Are there issues or questions that either side needs to
`
`take up with the Court before we recess for the evening?
`
`Anything from Plaintiff?
`
`MR. HARKINS: No, Your Honor.
`
`COURT: Anything from Defendants?
`
`MR. SMITH: No, Your Honor.
`
`have us prepared to address those with you in the most
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`THE COURT: Let me remind you of your ongoing
`
`obligation to meet and confer with regard to overnight
`
`disputes. We went
`
`through a lot of demonstrative disputes in
`
`chambers this morning. We had a little more time because of
`
`jury selection. We won't have that much time going forward.
`
`Try to narrow those, if you will, counsel. There's no real
`
`reason that you can't. But assuming that there are disputes
`
`that do survive your ongoing overnight efforts to resolve
`
`them, I'll be available in chambers by 7:30 to meet with you
`
`and give you guidance on those.
`
`Follow all my existing procedures and protocols that
`
`we've discussed in pretrial as to how to notify my staff and
`
`The Data Company Technologies Inc. v. Bright Data Ltd.
`1PR2022-00139, ER ee
`
`Shawn M. McRoberts TheRMRGonpPRRTechnologiesInc, v. Bright Data Ltd.
`Federal Official Court Reporter
`IPR2022-00138, eS neeoO
`
`

`

`289
`
`efficient way possible.
`
`If there aren't other issues that need to be raised, we
`
`stand in recess until tomorrow morning.
`
`(The proceedings were concluded at 5:40 p.m.)
`
`25
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`The Data Company Technologies Inc. v. Bright Data Ltd.
`
`Shawn M. McRoberts TheRMRGonPRFTechnologiesInc, v. Bright Data Ltd.
`
`20 of 20
`
`20 of 20
`
`

This document is available on Docket Alarm but you must sign up to view it.


Or .

Accessing this document will incur an additional charge of $.

After purchase, you can access this document again without charge.

Accept $ Charge
throbber

Still Working On It

This document is taking longer than usual to download. This can happen if we need to contact the court directly to obtain the document and their servers are running slowly.

Give it another minute or two to complete, and then try the refresh button.

throbber

A few More Minutes ... Still Working

It can take up to 5 minutes for us to download a document if the court servers are running slowly.

Thank you for your continued patience.

This document could not be displayed.

We could not find this document within its docket. Please go back to the docket page and check the link. If that does not work, go back to the docket and refresh it to pull the newest information.

Your account does not support viewing this document.

You need a Paid Account to view this document. Click here to change your account type.

Your account does not support viewing this document.

Set your membership status to view this document.

With a Docket Alarm membership, you'll get a whole lot more, including:

  • Up-to-date information for this case.
  • Email alerts whenever there is an update.
  • Full text search for other cases.
  • Get email alerts whenever a new case matches your search.

Become a Member

One Moment Please

The filing “” is large (MB) and is being downloaded.

Please refresh this page in a few minutes to see if the filing has been downloaded. The filing will also be emailed to you when the download completes.

Your document is on its way!

If you do not receive the document in five minutes, contact support at support@docketalarm.com.

Sealed Document

We are unable to display this document, it may be under a court ordered seal.

If you have proper credentials to access the file, you may proceed directly to the court's system using your government issued username and password.


Access Government Site

We are redirecting you
to a mobile optimized page.





Document Unreadable or Corrupt

Refresh this Document
Go to the Docket

We are unable to display this document.

Refresh this Document
Go to the Docket