Deposition of
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`Loren Terveen, Ph.D.
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`September 14, 2022
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`Volume II
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`Apple Inc.
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`vs.
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`MemoryWeb, LLC
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`© aetu
`URT US.
`
`www.aptusCR.com | 866.999.8310
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`MemoryWebEx. 2024
`Apple v. MemoryWeb — IPR2022-00032
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`MemoryWeb Ex. 2024
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`Page 242
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`·1· · · · · UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`·2· · · · · BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`·3· · · · · · · · · · · · · ·--o0o--
`·4· · APPLE INC.,· · · · · · · )
`· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·)
`·5· · · · · Petitioner,· · · · )
`· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·)
`·6· · · · · · · · ·vs.· · · · ·) IPR PARTES REVIEW
`· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·) No. IPR2022-00031
`·7· · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·) IPR PARTES REVIEW
`· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·) No. IPR2022-00031
`·8· · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·) IPR PARTES REVIEW
`· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·) No. IPR2022-00031
`·9· · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·) IPR PARTES REVIEW
`· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·) No. IPR2022-00031
`10· · MEMORYWEB, LLC,· · · · · )
`· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·)
`11· · · · · Patent Owner.· · · )
`· · · ________________________ )
`12
`13· · · · · · · ·VIDEOCONFERENCE DEPOSITION OF
`14· · · · · · · · · · LOREN TERVEEN, PH.D.
`· · · · · · · · ________________________________
`15
`16· · · · · · · · · Volume II (Pages 242-417)
`17
`18· · Date:· ·Wednesday, September 14, 2022
`19· · Time:· ·8:31 a.m. CST
`20· · Reporter:· Renee Combs Quinby, RDR, CRR, CSR IL, CSR
`21· · MO, CSR CA #11867
`22· · Job No.: 10107155
`23
`24
`25
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`·1· · · · · · · · · · · · · · INDEX
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`Page 244
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`·2· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · PAGE
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`·3
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`·4· · EXAMINATION BY MR. SCHWARTZ .....................246
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`·5· · EXAMINATION BY MR. SMITH ........................380
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`·6· · FURTHER EXAMINATION BY MR. SCHWARTZ .............398
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`·7· · · · · · · · · · · · · EXHIBITS
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`·8· · Exhibit 1007 US Patent 9,612,126 by Beletski· · ·279
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`·9· · Exhibit 1006 United States Patent· · · · · · · · 315
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`10· · · · · · · · Application for Belitz
`
`11· · Exhibit 1044 Article from· CrunchGear dated· · · 378
`
`12· · · · · · · · March 19th, 2010
`
`13· · (The original exhibits were provided to the court
`
`14· · reporter electronically to be attached to the
`
`15· · original and copies of the transcript.)
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`16
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`17
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`18
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`19
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`20
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`21
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`22
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`23
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`24
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`25
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`·1· · · · · · · · · · A P P E A R A N C E S
`·2
`·3· · FOR THE PETITIONER:
`·4
`· · · · · ·Kyle Smith, Esq. (remotely)
`·5· · · · ·Sidley Austin, LLP
`· · · · · ·1501 K Street, #600
`·6· · · · ·Washington, D.C.· 20005
`· · · · · ·(202)736-8914
`·7· · · · ·kyle.smith@sidley.com
`·8· · and
`·9· · · · ·Riana J. Freedman, Esq. (remotely)
`· · · · · ·Sidley Austin, LLP
`10· · · · ·787 7th Avenue
`· · · · · ·New York, NY· 10019
`11· · · · ·(212)839-5300
`· · · · · ·rfreedman@sidley.com
`12
`13
`14· · FOR THE PATENT OWNER:
`15· · · · ·Daniel Schwartz, Esq. (remotely)
`· · · · · ·Angelo Christopher, Esq. (remotely)
`16· · · · ·Nixon Peabody LLP
`· · · · · ·70 W. Madison Street, Suite 5200
`17· · · · ·Chicago, IL· 60602
`· · · · · ·(312)977-4400
`18· · · · ·dschwartz@nixonpeabody.com
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
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`Page 245
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`·1· · · · · UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`·2· · · · · BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`·3· · · · · · · · · · · · · ·--o0o--
`·4· · APPLE INC.,· · · · · · · )
`· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·)
`·5· · · · · Petitioner,· · · · )
`· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·)
`·6· · · · · · · · ·vs.· · · · ·) IPR PARTES REVIEW
`· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·) No. IPR2022-00031
`·7· · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·) IPR PARTES REVIEW
`· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·) No. IPR2022-00031
`·8· · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·) IPR PARTES REVIEW
`· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·) No. IPR2022-00031
`·9· · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·) IPR PARTES REVIEW
`· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·) No. IPR2022-00031
`10· · MEMORYWEB, LLC,· · · · · )
`· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·)
`11· · · · · Patent Owner.· · · )
`· · · ________________________ )
`12
`13· · · · · · · · · · · · --oOo--
`14· · · · · · · ·VIDEOCONFERENCE DEPOSITION OF LOREN
`15· · TERVEEN, PH.D., produced, sworn, and examined on
`16· · Wednesday, September 14, 2022, with the witness
`17· · appearing via videoconference from Washington, D.C.,
`18· · taken on behalf of the Patent Owner, before RENEE
`19· · COMBS QUINBY, Registered Diplomate Reporter,
`20· · Certified Realtime Reporter, Certified Shorthand
`21· · Reporter for the State of Illinois, Certified
`22· · Shorthand Reporter for the State of California,
`23· · Certified Court Reporter for the State of Missouri,
`24· · and a Realtime Systems Administrator.
`25
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`·1· · · · · · · · · · · · · --oOo--
`·2· · · · · · · IT IS HEREBY STIPULATED AND AGREED by and
`·3· · between counsel for the Patent Owner and counsel for
`·4· · the Petitioner that this deposition may be taken in
`·5· · machine shorthand by RENEE QUINBY, RDR, CRR,
`·6· · Certified Court Reporter, and Certified Shorthand
`·7· · Reporter, and afterwards transcribed into
`·8· · typewriting.
`·9· · · · · · · · · · · · · --oOo--
`10· · · · · · · · · · LOREN TERVEEN, PH.D.,
`11· · of lawful age, having been first duly sworn to
`12· · testify to the truth, the whole truth, and nothing
`13· · but the truth in the case aforesaid, deposes and
`14· · says in reply to oral interrogatories propounded as
`15· · follows, to-wit:
`16· · · · · · · · · · · · · ·--o0o--
`17· · · · · · P R O C E E D I N G S· ·8:31 a.m. CST
`18· · · · · · · · · · · · EXAMINATION
`19· · BY MR. SCHWARTZ:
`20· · · · · · Q.· ·Good morning, Professor Terveen.· You
`21· · understand that you remain under oath from
`22· · yesterday?
`23· · · · · · A.· ·I do.
`24· · · · · · Q.· ·Did you discuss your testimony in any
`25· · way with anyone in between ending yesterday and
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`·1· · starting this morning?
`·2· · · · · · A.· ·No, I didn't.
`·3· · · · · · Q.· ·When we ended yesterday, I asked you to
`·4· · bring with you the box and documentation of the
`·5· · Aperture 3 package that you received.
`·6· · · · · · · · ·Did you do that?
`·7· · · · · · A.· ·I did.
`·8· · · · · · Q.· ·Can you just hold it up to the screen
`·9· · so I can see what was there and I'll see if I can
`10· · identify it for the record.
`11· · · · · · A.· ·Sure.· And I have two of them.· I have
`12· · the retail and the academic.· Let's see.· The one
`13· · I'm holding up now is the retail.· I'm not sure if
`14· · you can see it.
`15· · · · · · Q.· ·Yes.· And actually why don't I see if I
`16· · can do this.· I'm going to link it to what you said
`17· · in -- whoops -- for ease of reference, why don't you
`18· · also pull up on the screen the '020 declaration,
`19· · Exhibit 1003, in the '020.
`20· · · · · · A.· ·Okay.· I think it's still up but let me
`21· · find it.· Yeah, I've got it.
`22· · · · · · Q.· ·Okay.· And go to page 33.
`23· · · · · · A.· ·Okay.· Yep, I'm there.
`24· · · · · · Q.· ·Okay.· And on page 33, beginning at
`25· · paragraph 71, there is a discussion of the retail
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`·1· · copy of Aperture 3 that you received from Apple
`·2· · counsel; is that right?
`·3· · · · · · A.· ·Yes.· Yes.· That's right.
`·4· · · · · · Q.· ·And the box that you have with you is
`·5· · the box that's referred to in that section, correct?
`·6· · · · · · A.· ·Yes.
`·7· · · · · · Q.· ·And in fact you took a picture of that
`·8· · for your declaration in paragraph 74?
`·9· · · · · · A.· ·Yes, yes, I think.· Yeah, yes, I did.
`10· · · · · · Q.· ·Can you open the box for us and tell us
`11· · what is inside.
`12· · · · · · A.· ·Well, I'll hold it up because it's got
`13· · sort of a sleeve, and now I've taken the box out.
`14· · And so I guess this is a folding situation.· And if
`15· · I unfold it, I then have the disk and some -- in
`16· · here, there is some documents.
`17· · · · · · Q.· ·Can you take out the documents, please?
`18· · · · · · A.· ·Yep.· There's three things in here, and
`19· · I actually have not even looked at them all.· Here
`20· · is the first one.
`21· · · · · · Q.· ·Okay.· Can you just identify on the
`22· · record what it says on the front cover of that?
`23· · · · · · A.· ·It says "Aperture 3, Exploring
`24· · Aperture."
`25· · · · · · Q.· ·And is that a booklet of approximately
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`·1· · 160 pages?
`·2· · · · · · A.· ·Yes.
`·3· · · · · · Q.· ·Okay.· All right.· And then what are
`·4· · the -- what is the other documentation that's in
`·5· · there?
`·6· · · · · · A.· ·There's like a -- just a two-page
`·7· · thing, but it says on the front "Aperture 3, Take
`·8· · Your Photos to New Places."
`·9· · · · · · Q.· ·Is that a picture of a bear on the
`10· · front?
`11· · · · · · A.· ·It does, yeah.· It's a picture of a
`12· · bear.
`13· · · · · · Q.· ·All right.· And then there is a
`14· · final -- and I'm sorry.· That particular piece of
`15· · documentation is a two-page foldout?
`16· · · · · · A.· ·Yeah, yeah.· It's just -- here's what
`17· · happens, yeah.
`18· · · · · · Q.· ·And then the final piece of literature
`19· · or documentation that came with the box is what?
`20· · · · · · A.· ·There's actually two more things I had
`21· · not initially noticed, this little two-page thing.
`22· · So there's another very small booklet.· It's called
`23· · "Aperture 3, Installing Your Software."
`24· · · · · · Q.· ·Okay.· And on page 5 of that?
`25· · · · · · A.· ·Yes.· I -- yes, I opened it up to
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`·1· · page 5.
`·2· · · · · · Q.· ·Okay.· Is there a section in yours that
`·3· · says "On Screen User Manual"?
`·4· · · · · · A.· ·Yes.
`·5· · · · · · Q.· ·And the documentation that came with
`·6· · the Aperture 3 installation CD that you're holding
`·7· · directs a user to find the user manual by opening
`·8· · Aperture and then choosing Help and going to
`·9· · Aperture Help and clicking the link to the user
`10· · manual; is that correct?
`11· · · · · · A.· ·Well, it -- it says, (quote as read):
`12· · · · · · · · · ·To access the user manual,
`13· · · · · · · · · ·open Aperture, then choose
`14· · · · · · · · · ·Help, Aperture Help, and click
`15· · · · · · · · · ·the link to the user manual.
`16· · · · · · Q.· ·Correct.· All right.· And right above
`17· · that it says a heading of "On Screen User Manual,"
`18· · right?
`19· · · · · · A.· ·That's correct.
`20· · · · · · Q.· ·And it also says, "A comprehensive user
`21· · manual is available in Aperture Help," correct?
`22· · · · · · A.· ·That's right.
`23· · · · · · Q.· ·And then below that is what we just
`24· · talked about, there's a header that says, "To access
`25· · the user manual," and then "open Aperture," and then
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`·1· · the HTML files for the user manual through the
`·2· · Aperture Help system.
`·3· · · · · · · · ·But it's -- it's the same content.
`·4· · Exhibit 1005 contains in PDF form the same content
`·5· · as -- as appears in the user manual through the Help
`·6· · system.
`·7· · · · · · Q.· ·All right.· You -- Exhibit 1005 to your
`·8· · declarations was not created by following the
`·9· · instructions in the documentation that accompanied
`10· · the Aperture 3 disk, correct?
`11· · · · · · A.· ·I think we spoke yesterday about this.
`12· · I don't have firsthand knowledge of how it was
`13· · produced, but I believe it was produced from the
`14· · HTML files themselves, not by going through
`15· · Aperture's Help system.· But again, I did not
`16· · produce it so ...
`17· · · · · · Q.· ·Okay.· So the steps that you discussed
`18· · yesterday to get to those HTML files is a different
`19· · process by which to get to the content of the user
`20· · manual than what is described in the documentation
`21· · that accompanied the retail version of the
`22· · Aperture 3 installation disk, correct?
`23· · · · · · A.· ·Well, I believe in my declaration, I
`24· · mentioned that you can access the user manual by
`25· · going through the Help menu, but I also, as we
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`·1· · "choose Help, caret, Aperture Help, and click the
`·2· · link to use -- to the user manual," correct?
`·3· · · · · · A.· ·Yeah, that's right.
`·4· · · · · · Q.· ·Now, the user manual that is attached
`·5· · as Exhibit 1003 to your declarations is not that
`·6· · user manual, correct?
`·7· · · · · · · · ·MR. SMITH:· Objection.· Form.
`·8· · · · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· I think you might have
`·9· · used the wrong number.· I wanted to make sure I
`10· · understood what you were referring to.
`11· · BY MR. SCHWARTZ:
`12· · · · · · Q.· ·I believe I said "1003."· I meant
`13· · "1005."· You're correct.· Thank you.· Let me restate
`14· · the question.
`15· · · · · · · · ·The user manual attached as
`16· · Exhibit 1005 to your declarations is not the user
`17· · manual that is referenced in the literature that
`18· · came with the Aperture 3 CD that you're holding
`19· · right now, correct?
`20· · · · · · A.· ·Well, it's the exhibit I referenced is
`21· · a PDF which was formed by producing all the HTML
`22· · files of the user manual, and what's being -- if I
`23· · understand your question correctly, what's being
`24· · referred to in -- in this Installing Your Software
`25· · brochure that we were just looking at is accessing
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`·1· · discussed yesterday, described other ways that I had
`·2· · accessed the user manual, the HTML files of the user
`·3· · manual.
`·4· · · · · · Q.· ·The booklet that accompanied the
`·5· · Aperture 3 installation disk doesn't tell you to
`·6· · look for the invisible HTML files on the DVD, does
`·7· · it?
`·8· · · · · · A.· ·Well, I have not read this whole thing,
`·9· · but certainly in the passage that you just described
`10· · or the passage that you just had me read and that
`11· · you read, it -- it only tells you one way to access
`12· · the user manual, and that is by going through the --
`13· · through the Help menu of Aperture -- or going
`14· · through the Help menu and accessing the Aperture
`15· · Help option.
`16· · · · · · Q.· ·Going back to the 150-page booklet that
`17· · also came with the Aperture 3 installation disk that
`18· · has the cover "Aperture 3, Exploring Aperture"?
`19· · · · · · A.· ·I have it.
`20· · · · · · Q.· ·If you go to page 7.
`21· · · · · · A.· ·Okay.· I'm looking at page 7.
`22· · · · · · Q.· ·All right.· There is a bullet point at
`23· · the bottom that says, (quote as read):
`24· · · · · · · · · ·If you prefer to start by
`25· · · · · · · · · ·reading in-depth explanations
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`·1· · · · · · · · · ·of concepts and procedures
`·2· · · · · · · · · ·used with Aperture:· Open
`·3· · · · · · · · · ·Aperture, then choose Help,
`·4· · · · · · · · · ·caret, Aperture Help, then
`·5· · · · · · · · · ·click the link to the user
`·6· · · · · · · · · ·manual.
`·7· · · · · · · · ·Did I read that correctly?
`·8· · · · · · A.· ·Yes.
`·9· · · · · · Q.· ·That instruction similarly does not
`10· · tell a user to look for the invisible HTML files on
`11· · the DVD, correct?
`12· · · · · · A.· ·No, no, this simply says, as you said,
`13· · accessing the user manual by choosing Help and then
`14· · Aperture Help.
`15· · · · · · Q.· ·Was there any other documentation that
`16· · came with the installation DVD retail version from
`17· · counsel?
`18· · · · · · A.· ·Yeah, there's one other.· It's
`19· · Aperture 3 Keyboard Shortcuts.
`20· · · · · · Q.· ·And to your knowledge, there's nothing
`21· · in there that directs a user to go look for the
`22· · invisible HTML files on the DVD, correct?
`23· · · · · · A.· ·I haven't looked at it, but -- so to my
`24· · knowledge -- yeah, I have no knowledge about it.
`25· · · · · · Q.· ·All right.· Thank you.· I appreciate
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`·1· · you bringing that in.
`·2· · · · · · · · ·Before I leave that, the other box that
`·3· · you have --
`·4· · · · · · A.· ·Yes.
`·5· · · · · · Q.· ·-- is that the box that you reference
`·6· · in Exhibit 1003 of the '020 in paragraph 97?
`·7· · · · · · A.· ·Yes, it is.
`·8· · · · · · Q.· ·Is the documentation that accompanied
`·9· · that box the same as the documentation with the
`10· · retail box?
`11· · · · · · A.· ·I'll just verify that it is the same.
`12· · Yeah, it's the same four things, same four booklets.
`13· · · · · · Q.· ·Thank you.· All right.· I'm going to
`14· · turn back to some of your opinions regarding the
`15· · '020 here shortly -- quickly, hopefully.· And I'm
`16· · going to direct you to the discussion regarding
`17· · claim 3 beginning at paragraph 165 on page 92 of
`18· · Exhibit 1003.
`19· · · · · · A.· ·Okay.· I'm -- I've navigated to there.
`20· · · · · · Q.· ·Okay.· And just to orient you,
`21· · claim 3 -- claim 3 depends from claim 1 -- excuse
`22· · me, depends from claim 2 and further depends from
`23· · claim 1, and you set forth in paragraph 167 -- oh,
`24· · I'm sorry.· I was looking down.· Did you say
`25· · something?
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`·1· · · · · · A.· ·Oh, no.· No, I did not say anything.
`·2· · · · · · Q.· ·Oh.· Sorry about that.· In
`·3· · paragraph 167 you state:
`·4· · · · · · · · · ·When selecting the Places item
`·5· · · · · · · · · ·in the Library inspector, the
`·6· · · · · · · · · ·Places view shows "location
`·7· · · · · · · · · ·information for images across
`·8· · · · · · · · · ·the entire Aperture Library,"
`·9· · · · · · · · · ·so the location pins displayed
`10· · · · · · · · · ·on the Places map that can be
`11· · · · · · · · · ·selected to view images taken
`12· · · · · · · · · ·at the locations would not be
`13· · · · · · · · · ·limited to linking to
`14· · · · · · · · · ·respective "sets of digital
`15· · · · · · · · · ·files associated with the
`16· · · · · · · · · ·first person."· It would have
`17· · · · · · · · · ·been obvious to a skilled
`18· · · · · · · · · ·artisan in 2010 to modify A3UM
`19· · · · · · · · · ·so that the Places toolbar
`20· · · · · · · · · ·button (a "first map image,"
`21· · · · · · · · · ·also part of the "first person
`22· · · · · · · · · ·view") could be selected to
`23· · · · · · · · · ·display the photos of the
`24· · · · · · · · · ·selected person in the Places
`25· · · · · · · · · ·view ("wherein the first set
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`·1· · · · · · · · · ·of digital files and the
`·2· · · · · · · · · ·second set of digital files
`·3· · · · · · · · · ·are associated with the first
`·4· · · · · · · · · ·person.")
`·5· · · · · · · · ·Did I read that correctly?
`·6· · · · · · A.· ·Yes.· Yes, you did.
`·7· · · · · · Q.· ·All right.· So here what you're saying
`·8· · is you want to modify -- it's your opinion that if
`·9· · you modify the Places button in the toolbar to only
`10· · show images associated with a single person, that
`11· · would render claim 3 obvious, correct?
`12· · · · · · A.· ·Let me quickly review what I wrote
`13· · here.· Okay.· Well, I've sort of reviewed this
`14· · section.· Could you -- could you ask your question
`15· · again so I have it fresh?
`16· · · · · · Q.· ·That delay was about two minutes of
`17· · time, and you're now just asking me to repeat the
`18· · question.· So I just want to make that clear as we
`19· · move forward throughout the day the amount of time
`20· · that's being taken in between questions and answers.
`21· · · · · · · · ·The question that I asked was, it's
`22· · your opinion that if you modify the Places button
`23· · associated with the single -- let me restate that.
`24· · · · · · · · ·If you modify the Places toolbar button
`25· · to only display photos associated with the single
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`·1· · person, that would render claim 3 obvious, correct?
`·2· · · · · · A.· ·Yeah, I just wanted to be very careful.
`·3· · So I think what my opinion, as I laid it out in this
`·4· · section, is that that if you modify the Places
`·5· · toolbar button to -- to display photos of the
`·6· · selected person, then in the Places view that would
`·7· · render it obvious, so I sort of think I hadn't heard
`·8· · you say "the selected person."· Maybe I just missed
`·9· · that, but, yes, that -- that is the heart of my
`10· · opinion here for this claim.
`11· · · · · · Q.· ·You are not proposing in this portion
`12· · of your opinion to modify the Places link in the
`13· · Library inspector, correct?
`14· · · · · · A.· ·Okay.· Well, I will have to just verify
`15· · that I didn't propose that here.· I did not suggest
`16· · here modifying the Places link in the Library
`17· · inspector.
`18· · · · · · Q.· ·With that as your heart of the opinion,
`19· · as you stated, let's take a look at the user manual
`20· · to see what this modification would look like.· If
`21· · you'll go to page 29 of the user manual, which is
`22· · Exhibit 1005.
`23· · · · · · A.· ·Page 29, you said?
`24· · · · · · Q.· ·Correct.
`25· · · · · · A.· ·Okay.· Well, I'm there.
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`·1· · · · · · Q.· ·The top image on page 29 is the Faces
`·2· · view in A3UM, correct?
`·3· · · · · · A.· ·That's correct.
`·4· · · · · · Q.· ·And that Faces view is what you have
`·5· · identified in connection with these claims as the
`·6· · people view, right?
`·7· · · · · · A.· ·As rendering that -- as mapping to
`·8· · that, yes.
`·9· · · · · · Q.· ·Right.· And in the image on the top of
`10· · page 29, there is a Places button in the toolbar
`11· · near the top on the right side, right?
`12· · · · · · A.· ·Yes, that's correct.
`13· · · · · · Q.· ·And your -- are you proposing that in
`14· · the people view, the Faces view here on the top
`15· · image, that that button be modified?
`16· · · · · · A.· ·Let me just -- let me -- I'm going to
`17· · look back before I -- so I can give you the best
`18· · answer.
`19· · · · · · Q.· ·If you can't answer the question,
`20· · that's fine.· We've been sitting here for several
`21· · minutes, Professor Terveen.
`22· · · · · · A.· ·Well, I have to trace through the
`23· · claims and understand what's being referred to in
`24· · claim 1 -- or in claim 3 which depends on claim 2
`25· · which depends on claim 1.· So that's -- that's what
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`·1· · I'm doing right now in order to give you a good
`·2· · answer.
`·3· · · · · · Q.· ·You can't tell me if the Places button
`·4· · on the people view is the one that is being modified
`·5· · in your proposed modification?
`·6· · · · · · A.· ·I'm reviewing the patent in my
`·7· · declaration to give you an answer.· If you'd like me
`·8· · to stop now, we can do that.
`·9· · · · · · Q.· ·Well, I just asked about your opinions
`10· · that you set forth here and asking pretty
`11· · straightforward questions, and it's taking a very
`12· · long time for you to reread entire things and then
`13· · provide a substantive answer or ask me to repeat the
`14· · question, so it's a long process.
`15· · · · · · · · ·How long do you think it will take you
`16· · to answer this question in addition to the two or so
`17· · minutes it's already taken?
`18· · · · · · A.· ·I would guess another minute and I'll
`19· · be ready to answer.
`20· · · · · · Q.· ·Okay.· Thank you.
`21· · · · · · A.· ·Sure.· So if we look through -- I think
`22· · again I may have misunderstood your question or I'm
`23· · not sure that I do understand your question.· And
`24· · I'm going to have to talk about claim 3, claim 2,
`25· · and claim 1 in order to -- in order to try to answer
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`·1· · your question.· So it will -- my answer will take a
`·2· · bit.
`·3· · · · · · · · ·So claim 3 says, (quote as read):
`·4· · · · · · · · · ·The method of claim 2, wherein
`·5· · · · · · · · · ·the first set of digital files
`·6· · · · · · · · · ·and the second set of digital
`·7· · · · · · · · · ·files are associated with the
`·8· · · · · · · · · ·first person, that depends on
`·9· · · · · · · · · ·claim 2.
`10· · · · · · · · ·Claim 2 says, (quote as read):
`11· · · · · · · · · ·The method of claim 1, wherein
`12· · · · · · · · · ·the first indication is
`13· · · · · · · · · ·associated with the first set
`14· · · · · · · · · ·of digital files in the first
`15· · · · · · · · · ·location, and the second
`16· · · · · · · · · ·indication is associated with
`17· · · · · · · · · ·a second set of digital files
`18· · · · · · · · · ·in the second location.
`19· · · · · · · · ·And then if I go back to claim 1, it
`20· · refers to, (quote as read):
`21· · · · · · · · · ·A map image in the first
`22· · · · · · · · · ·person view which causes a
`23· · · · · · · · · ·first location view to be
`24· · · · · · · · · ·displayed on the interface,
`25· · · · · · · · · ·the first location view
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`·1· · · · · · · · · ·including an interactive
`·2· · · · · · · · · ·geographic map and a first
`·3· · · · · · · · · ·indication position at a first
`·4· · · · · · · · · ·location on the interactive
`·5· · · · · · · · · ·geographic map, and a second
`·6· · · · · · · · · ·indication position at a
`·7· · · · · · · · · ·second location on the
`·8· · · · · · · · · ·interactive geographic map.
`·9· · · · · · · · ·And the way you got to that -- in
`10· · claim 1, the way you got to that first location view
`11· · was by selecting the map image from the first person
`12· · view, and so you would have to be able to select
`13· · the -- to select the map image in the first person
`14· · view, and then that would show you a map of only the
`15· · images for that person.
`16· · · · · · · · ·So that is my answer.· See, there was
`17· · some complexity there, so I had to trace through
`18· · that.
`19· · · · · · Q.· ·Notwithstanding that, I don't believe
`20· · that actually answered my question.· In your
`21· · modification, is the Places button, as shown in the
`22· · top figure on page 29 in the Faces or people view,
`23· · modified to only show images for a single person?
`24· · · · · · A.· ·I was -- I was referring to modifying
`25· · the Places button from the equivalent of the person
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`·1· · view, which would be the equivalent of -- which I
`·2· · was using the Faces browser to map on to, which is
`·3· · the lower figure on page 29.
`·4· · · · · · Q.· ·Okay.· So the Places button in the
`·5· · toolbar in the top image would not be modified in
`·6· · your proposal, but would be modified in the bottom
`·7· · image; is that correct?
`·8· · · · · · A.· ·Well, I think the -- what I was
`·9· · referring to in my opinion was once you have
`10· · selected a person, you could -- you could then
`11· · modify the Places button so that it would show on
`12· · the map the images for that person.· And I would
`13· · have to read everything in my opinion for claim 3 to
`14· · see if I referred to -- how specific I was, but I do
`15· · know my opinion was focused on going from the
`16· · person's view, making the Places button work from
`17· · there.
`18· · · · · · · · ·I don't know if there's anything I said
`19· · that would rule out making it work that way from
`20· · the -- from the Faces view interface as well. I
`21· · just don't recall that without, you know, reviewing
`22· · it again in detail.
`23· · · · · · Q.· ·Well, at least with respect to the
`24· · opinion in claim 3 that you've spent several minutes
`25· · now reviewing, you don't say anything about
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`·1· · modifying the Places button in the top view, the
`·2· · Faces or people view, correct?
`·3· · · · · · A.· ·I think I just said that I -- I don't
`·4· · recall that I did.
`·5· · · · · · Q.· ·And you've reviewed in detail now for
`·6· · several minutes these several pages and did not find
`·7· · anything to state that, correct?
`·8· · · · · · A.· ·Yes.
`·9· · · · · · Q.· ·So if the Places button in the top
`10· · image is not modified, that Places -- strike that.
`11· · · · · · · · ·If the Places button in the toolbar in
`12· · the top image is not modified, clicking it would
`13· · return a Places view that has a map image with pins
`14· · at locations for every geotagged image in the
`15· · library that's selected in the Library inspector,
`16· · correct?
`17· · · · · · A.· ·Did you refer to the Places link in the
`18· · Library inspector?· I wanted to make sure I -- okay.
`19· · Could you -- say that again.
`20· · · · · · Q.· ·I'm referring to the Places button in
`21· · the toolbar.
`22· · · · · · A.· ·The Places button in the toolbar, if
`23· · you -- in the Faces view?· Is that what you asked
`24· · about?
`25· · · · · · Q.· ·Yes.· If you click -- if that remains
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`·1· · unmodified, if you click that button, the Places
`·2· · button in the toolbar, it will return a Places view,
`·3· · including a map with pins at locations for every
`·4· · geotagged image in the library selected in the
`·5· · Library pane on the left side of the top image,
`·6· · correct?
`·7· · · · · · A.· ·I -- I think you might have meant to
`·8· · say for every item -- for every -- you referred to
`·9· · the library in the Library pane.· Did you mean the
`10· · selected item in the Library pane?
`11· · · · · · Q.· ·Yes.
`12· · · · · · A.· ·Yeah.· So that's the way the Faces
`13· · view -- that's the way the Places button works in
`14· · the toolbar.· If you have a selected -- when you
`15· · have a selected item in the Library inspector,
`16· · clicking on the Places button in the toolbar will
`17· · show you a map, an interactive map with indicators
`18· · for all -- all images in the library.
`19· · · · · · Q.· ·And the locations on that map will not
`20· · be limited to locations for any specific person
`21· · shown in the Faces view; for instance, the three on
`22· · the top image in page 29, correct?
`23· · · · · · A.· ·That is how it works in A3UM, yes.
`24· · · · · · Q.· ·And in fact, it would include -- if
`25· · there are images in that Library link selected in
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`·1· · the Library pane that don't have any people in them,
`·2· · they are just landscape or pictures of bears or
`·3· · trains or scenery but they have location
`·4· · information, those would also be included in the
`·5· · Places view as returned by hitting the Places
`·6· · toolbar icon, correct?
`·7· · · · · · A.· ·All -- all images with location data
`·8· · would be included, and so you might have -- at one
`·9· · location you might have only photos of bears or
`10· · nature.· At another location you might have, you
`11· · know, photos of your kids at home, and another
`12· · location you might have photos of your kids at
`13· · school, and another location you might have photos
`14· · of a football game.· So, yeah, whatever photos you
`15· · have would be -- would be displayed.
`16· · · · · · Q.· ·And then in your proposed modification,
`17· · once you get down to the single person faces view or
`18· · the first person view, as mentioned in the claims,
`19· · that button would have a different functionality
`20· · now, and it would only return a Places map with pins
`21· · associated with the location of a single person,
`22· · correct?
`23· · · · · · A.· ·Yeah.· I think specifically what I said
`24· · is once you've selected a person, you could modify
`25· · A3UM to only -- to use -- to make the Places button
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`·1· · in the toolbar only display on the map photos
`·2· · associated with a selected person.
`·3· · · · · · Q.· ·So the -- hitting that Places map --
`·4· · excuse me.· Strike that.
`·5· · · · · · · · ·Hitting the Places button in the
`·6· · toolbar in the top image returns a different result
`·7· · from hitting the Places button in the toolbar in the
`·8· · bottom image under your proposed modification,
`·9· · correct?
`10· · · · · · A.· ·You know, I do want to -- as I said,
`11· · this is -- there's a lot of things going on here, so
`12· · you had directed me to paragraph 167 initially, and
`13· · I think you even had me read this sentence.· It's
`14· · the last sentence:
`15· · · · · · · · · ·It would have been obvious to
`16· · · · · · · · · ·a skilled artisan in 2010 to
`17· · · · · · · · · ·modify A3UM so that the Places
`18· · · · · · · · · ·toolbar button (a "first map
`19· · · · · · · · · ·image" and also part of the
`20· · · · · · · · · ·"first person view,") could be
`21· · · · · · · · · ·selected to display the photos
`22· · · · · · · · · ·of the selected person in the
`23· · · · · · · · · ·Places view.
`24· · · · · · · · ·So I think what I'm saying here is once
`25· · you have selected a person in the Places view, they
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`·1· · will be shown in the Faces browser and then -- and
`·2· · then the Places button in the toolbar can be
`·3· · modified to show -- to show their images.· So you
`·4· · would have selected them, selected a person, and
`·5· · once you've selected a person, then the toolbar,
`·6· · Places toolbar item button can -- can show the map
`·7· · images of that person.
`·8· · · · · · Q.· ·Thank you, Professor Terveen.· One
`·9· · quick question.· Just want to make sure that your
`10· · setup today is the same as yesterday with your
`11· · computers?
`12· · · · · · A.· ·Identical, yes.· Identical as
`13· · yesterday's.· Environment is exactly the same.
`14· · · · · · Q.· ·Okay.· And at least based on the Zoom
`15· · layout, it's just you and Mr. Smith in the room?
`16· · · · · · A.· ·That's correct.
`17· · · · · · Q.· ·Okay.· And has that been true at all
`18· · times?
`19· · · · · · A.· ·Yes.
`20· · · · · · Q.· ·Okay.· And we have Ms. Freedman on the
`21· · line as well.· We're missing Mr. Kushan today. I
`2