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`
` UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`UNIFIED PATENTS, LLC, )
` )
` Petitioner, )
` )
` vs. ) Patent No.
` ) 10,621,228
`MEMORYWEB, LLC, )
` )
` Patent Owner. ) VOLUME I
`
` The videoconference discovery deposition of
`BENJAMIN B. BEDERSON, Ph.D., taken in the
`above-entitled cause, before Renee E. Brass, a
`Certified Shorthand Reporter of said state, on
`May 24, 2022, at the hour of 9:40 a.m.
`
`MemoryWeb Ex. 2035
`Unified Patents v. MemoryWeb – IPR2021-01413
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` UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`UNIFIED PATENTS, LLC, )
` )
` Petitioner, )
` )
` vs. ) Patent No.
` ) 10,621,228
`MEMORYWEB, LLC, )
` )
` Patent Owner. ) VOLUME I
`
` The videoconference discovery deposition of
`BENJAMIN B. BEDERSON, Ph.D., taken in the
`above-entitled cause, before Renee E. Brass, a
`Certified Shorthand Reporter of said state, on
`May 24, 2022, at the hour of 9:40 a.m.
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` PRESENT:
` UNIFIED PATENTS, LLC
` BY: ELLYAR BARAZESH, ESQ.
` ellyar@unifiedpatents.com
` 4445 Willard Avenue, Suite 600
` Chevy Chase, MD 20815
` 925.434.8754
` on behalf of the Petitioner;
` NIXON PEABODY LLP
` BY: MATTHEW A. WERBER, ESQ.
` mwerber@nixonpeabody.com
` 70 West Madison Street, Suite 5200
` Chicago, IL 60602
` 312.977.4458
` on behalf of the Patent Owner.
`ALSO PRESENT:
` Brendan O'Callaghan
`
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` I N D E X
`EXAMINATION OF BENJAMIN B. BEDERSON PAGE
` MR. WERBER 4
` E X H I B I T S
`EXHIBIT NO. PAGE REFERRED TO
` Exhibit 1002 7
` Exhibit 1001 10
` Exhibit 1004 11
` Exhibit 1005 11
` Exhibit 2002 35
` Exhibit 2003 37
` NOTE: Exhibits 1001, 2002 and 2003 not
`tendered for inclusion with transcript
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` (Witness remotely sworn.)
` BENJAMIN B. BEDERSON, Ph.D.,
`having been first duly sworn, was examined and
`testified as follows:
` EXAMINATION
`BY MR. WERBER:
` Q. Dr. Bederson, good morning. Can you
`please state and spell your full name for the
`record.
` A. Yes. I am Benjamin B. Bederson, spelled
`B-e-n-j-a-m-i-n, middle initial B, last name B like
`boy, e, d like David, e-r-s-o, n like Nancy.
` Q. Thank you. I'm showing you -- and I'm
`now noticing the depo notice was misspelled.
`Apologies.
` I'm showing you I believe what was
`paper 21 in the proceeding, notice of deposition of
`Dr. Benjamin Bederson, and apologize for the
`misspelling of the name. Have you seen this
`document?
` A. Yes, I have.
` Q. This is a deposition notice asking you to
`appear and testify under oath in relation to the
`matter captioned at the top. Do you understand you
`are here to testify about your opinions in this
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`matter?
` A. Yes, I do.
` Q. Do you understand you're here to provide
`truthful and accurate answers in response to my
`questions?
` A. Yes, I do.
` Q. And we both stipulated to the oath being
`performed over Zoom. Do you understand that oath
`just administered is the same oath used in a
`courtroom in front of a judge and jury?
` A. I don't know that, but I hear that you
`are telling me that.
` Q. Is there anything else you can think
`of -- is there anything you can think of that may
`prevent you today from hearing and understanding my
`questions?
` A. No.
` Q. That's a no?
` A. Correct. I said no.
` Q. Is there anything else that you can think
`of that may prevent you from testifying truthfully?
` A. No.
` Q. Dr. Bederson, here are a few instructions
`so we are clear on the rules today. I'll do my best
`to ask clear, direct questions that you are able to
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`understand. If you do not understand my questions
`or would like clarification, please speak up and I
`will rephrase.
` We are doing this remote through video
`conference, and we have a court reporter recording
`what is said for a transcript. To help the court
`reporter, please answer verbally with words, yes,
`no, rather than nodding your head and the like.
`Does that make sense?
` A. Yes.
` Q. A few minutes ago, counsel introduced
`himself as your attorney for this deposition. And
`if I mispronounce the spelling of the -- the
`pronunciation of the last name, Barazesh.
` MR. BARAZESH: It's Barazesh.
`BY MR. WERBER:
` Q. Okay. Mr. Barazesh may choose to object
`to some of my questions. If he does, please allow
`time for Mr. Barazesh to object and then you can
`proceed with answering afterwards. Does that make
`sense, Dr. Bederson?
` A. Yes, it does.
` Q. An objection does not necessarily mean
`you should not answer, that is, unless Mr. Barazesh
`specifically tells you not to answer, usually for
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`reasons of privilege, which I'm hoping we won't get
`into today; is that okay?
` A. That sounds okay.
` Q. What, if anything, did you do to prepare
`for today's deposition?
` A. I read documents and talked with counsel.
` Q. Without getting into the detail of what
`was said between you and counsel, can you identify
`who you spoke with in particular?
` A. Yes, I spoke with Ellyar Barazesh.
` Q. Anybody else?
` A. No.
` Q. When did you speak with Mr. Barazesh?
` A. I believe I spoke with him yesterday as
`well as Friday.
` Q. You did prepare a declaration for this
`matter, correct?
` A. Yes, I did.
` Q. I will show you that declaration. Do you
`see that in front of you?
` A. Yes, I do.
` Q. So we're showing that on the screen. And
`it is marked as Exhibit 1002 in this matter. Does
`that sound right?
` A. Yes, it does. Just so you know, I also
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`brought my own paper copy of that declaration, as
`well as a number of other papers, documents in this
`matter.
` Q. Thank you. I was going to get into that
`in a moment.
` You did bring copies of some papers, and
`that includes your expert declaration, correct?
` A. Correct.
` Q. There are no markings on that. It's a
`clean copy as filed?
` A. That and all the other documents are a
`clean copy as filed. I did write, handwrite a word
`on the tabs on the binder just to more clearly
`identify some of the documents.
` Q. I understand. And just to be clear, are
`you carrying -- are you carrying like separately
`stapled documents or is it more like a three-ring
`binder with everything?
` A. They are all in three-ring binders, and
`I've taken out a few of the documents that I think
`may be particularly relevant, but the rest of the
`documents are in the binders.
` Q. Sure. So you are referring to a tab just
`to mark where we are in the binder if you need to
`flip through the binder, is that what you are
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`talking about?
` A. Correct. So, for example, one of the
`tabs is Exhibit 1002 and I wrote on it "my
`declaration."
` Q. Sounds good. But there's no writing in
`the documents themselves, correct?
` A. That is correct.
` Q. Or no handwriting, that's what I meant.
` Now, let me continue with this for a
`moment. Which documents do you have in front of
`you?
` A. Referring to all the documents that I
`brought today?
` Q. Yes.
` A. If you would like, I could give you a --
`enumerate a list, but generally they are the
`petition and cited documents, my declaration and
`cited documents and the patent owner's responses and
`documents or maybe it's -- whatever it's called, but
`three categories of documents.
` Q. Besides the papers you mentioned, do you
`have anything else in front of you in your room?
` A. I have the computer that I am using. I
`have some food. My personal cell phone is off to
`the side.
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` Q. You are not texting -- and a further
`instruction. I assume you understand from counsel
`that you are not to be texting or receiving calls
`while under oath today or answering and receiving
`emails about this case while under oath today,
`correct?
` A. Yes, that's my understanding.
` Q. And you are not using the computer as we
`speak right now except to receive Zoom?
` A. That's correct.
` Q. If you could have your email turned off,
`if it's not already turned off, I would appreciate
`that.
` A. It is already turned off.
` MR. WERBER: Okay. Thank you. And maybe
`let's go off the record for a moment.
` (Discussion off the record.)
`BY MR. WERBER:
` Q. Let's go through a couple of things. I
`first want to ask if you have Exhibit 1001 in front
`of you, which is the '228 patent.
` Do you have that?
` A. Yes, I do.
` Q. And I believe you mentioned this. You
`have Exhibit 1002, which is the declaration that I
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`showed you a moment ago?
` A. Yes, I do.
` Q. I'm also going to ask about some of the
`references, such as Exhibit 1004, which is the
`Okamura reference.
` Do you have that?
` A. Yes, I do.
` Q. And there's also the Flora reference,
`Exhibit 1005.
` A. Was that a question?
` Q. You also have the Flora reference,
`Exhibit 1005?
` A. Yes, I do.
` Q. Okay. Turning back to your declaration,
`did you author the declaration yourself?
` A. I'm not sure what you mean by author, but
`the declaration is my declaration and all the
`opinions are mine.
` Q. Did you have some -- and not to reveal
`any attorney-client confidences or work product,
`privileged materials, but did you have assistance
`from counsel in preparing the declaration with
`regard to legal standards or any other type of
`inputs?
` MR. BARAZESH: I'm going to object, privilege.
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` You can answer the question --
` MR. WERBER: And I'm not asking --
` MR. BARAZESH: -- to the extent that you don't
`reveal privileged information, Dr. Bederson.
` MR. WERBER: Thank you. I should have let you
`finish.
` Q. I'm not asking you to reveal the details
`of what was said by counsel.
` I just want to understand the basic fact
`that if counsel assisted you as you prepared the
`declaration.
` A. Yes, at my direction counsel did assist
`me with the preparation of the declaration.
` Q. And counsel included Mr. Barazesh?
` A. That's correct.
` Q. Any other attorneys who assisted with the
`preparation of the declaration?
` A. I'm not recalling any right now.
` Q. Do you recall receiving any assistance
`from any non-attorneys in preparing your
`declaration?
` A. No, I cannot think of any.
` Q. Do you recall receiving any input from
`anybody that you understood to be represented by
`Apple in preparing your declaration?
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` A. No.
` Q. Did you receive any input from anybody
`you understood to be represented by Samsung in
`preparing your declaration?
` A. No.
` Q. So as far as you can recall sitting here
`right now, Mr. Barazesh was the only person who
`assisted you during the preparation of your
`declaration, correct?
` A. That is correct.
` Q. If you think of anybody else, let me
`know.
` Let's turn -- and I believe this is
`PDF page 23 of your declaration. That is -- just
`one moment.
` Let's turn to PDF page 23 of your
`declaration, which is -- hold on, which is
`paragraph 43. Do you have that in front of you?
` A. Yes, I do.
` Q. And you start with: I agree with the
`summary of the '228 patent and description of the
`'228 patent's file history provided in the petition.
`And then you provide a listing of the challenged
`claims, and then there is a recitation of the
`language of Claim 1 that follows, correct?
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` A. Just to clarify about page numbers, that
`part that you just read that starts with
`paragraph 43, I see that as being PDF page 22,
`continues across multiple pages.
` You have page 23, so I just want to make
`sure we're understanding each other.
` Q. No. That's perfect. Thank you for
`pointing out that detail. It does begin on
`PDF page 22, and then there's a preamble.
` I want to draw your attention to some of
`the language of Claim 1, and that includes a
`reference to a first input, and I do -- you're
`seeing my screen, right?
` A. Yes, I am.
` Q. So we have the language responsive to a
`first input and then it continues with reciting a
`map view; do you see that?
` A. Yes, I do.
` Q. And then the term interactive map is
`used, correct?
` A. The term interactive map is used.
` Q. And then it continues with the term
`selectable thumbnail image, correct?
` A. It does use the term selectable thumbnail
`image.
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` Q. A first location selectable thumbnail
`image and then it continues to -- by reciting a
`second location selectable thumbnail image. Do you
`see that in the claim?
` A. Just to be clear, you are reading parts
`of the claim, but not --
` Q. Parts of the claim, yeah.
` A. -- the whole claim, not the whole
`limitations, but I do see the term a second location
`selectable thumbnail image in the claim.
` Q. So I'm going to ask you a little bit
`about these claim elements and what you opined on in
`terms of the findings in the prior art. First, the
`claim requires a first input; is that right?
` A. A claim element 1b says responsive to a
`first input causing a map view to be displayed on an
`interface.
` Q. And so back to my question. The claim
`requires a first input; is that right?
` A. I don't recall in my declaration having a
`specific opinion about whether a first input is
`required.
` Q. Is it your testimony that the claim does
`not require a first input?
` A. What I said was I don't recall in my
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`declaration a particular opinion about the term
`first input, so I do have one, then my -- if I do
`have an opinion, then it would be in my declaration,
`but I'm not recalling a specific opinion about that
`term at least in consideration of this claim
`element.
` Q. Let me ask you this: We just walked
`through some of the language in the claim, not all
`of the language in the claim, and you agreed and
`testified that the claim recites a "first input,"
`right?
` A. Yes, I agree that the claim includes the
`term a first input.
` Q. But you are not sure if the claim
`requires a first input?
` A. That's not what I said. What I said was
`I don't recall having a specific opinion about the
`term first input in my declaration, at least as it
`regards to this claim element 1b.
` Q. We'll set this aside for a moment.
` Let's turn to paragraph 102 of your
`opinion of your declaration.
` A. Okay.
` Q. Do you not in this paragraph identify
`what you believe is the claimed first input in the
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`Okamura reference?
` A. I believe I do, which is why in my
`previous answer I limited my response to the claim
`limitation we were talking about.
` Q. The first input, right?
` A. Well, you were specifically asking me
`about claim limitation 1b, and I don't believe I had
`an opinion about the first input specifically
`regarding claim element 1b where I was talking about
`other elements of that claim element.
` Q. I'm trying to clarify what's happening
`here. You refer to a first input in paragraph 102,
`do you not?
` A. Yes, I do.
` Q. And you refer to it as corresponding to
`place tab 413, correct?
` A. Yes, I do.
` Q. That's the first input, unless you
`disagree. Do you agree that that's the same first
`input in claim element 1b?
` A. Yes, I do.
` Q. If you testified before that you were
`unsure if you covered the first input in your
`opinion, does this help you refresh your
`recollection as to whether or not you rendered any
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`opinion about the first input of Claim 1?
` A. Yes, it does. I think it's fair to say
`that I do, in fact, have an opinion about the first
`input. Thank you for pointing me to this section.
` Q. Thank you. And then let's get back to
`the basic question. The claim recites a "first
`input," right?
` A. Claim element 1b does recite the claim
`element first input as part of the claim element
`which is responsive to a first input causing a map
`view to be displayed on an interface.
` Q. Thank you. And the claim -- claim 1b --
`claim element 1b also requires a first input; is
`that right?
` A. I don't think I formed a specific opinion
`about that, but I see here that claim element 1b
`does require something to occur in response to a
`first input, so I think it's fair to say that the
`first input occurs.
` Q. The claim also requires a map view,
`correct?
` A. Claim element 1b recites a map view as
`part of the limitation responsive to a first input
`causing a map view to be displayed on an interface,
`so map view must be displayed on an interface.
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` Q. That map view, according to the claim,
`includes an interactive map, correct?
` A. So the claim element explains there's a
`map view and then, additionally, it explains or
`requires that the map view include a number of
`things, including an interactive map.
` Q. That map view includes not just the
`interactive map, but a first location selectable
`thumbnail image, correct?
` A. Claim limitation 1d recites that the map
`view includes three things, including the thing
`that described in a claim element 1d, which says a
`first location selectable thumbnail image at a first
`location on the interactive map.
` Q. So you said three things. Those three
`things are an interactive map, a first location
`selectable thumbnail image and then also a second
`location selectable thumbnail image, correct?
` A. You are only reading part of the claim
`limitations, so I can't agree to that summary of the
`claim elements.
` I agree those terms were cited, but those
`were not entire elements.
` Q. With the disclaimer that that's not the
`entire element, I'm just trying to orient us that
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`this is what I am going to be asking you about for
`the next few minutes.
` A. Okay.
` Q. So going back to paragraph 102, you
`identify the first input and in relation to
`Okamura's place tab 413; is that right?
` A. In paragraph 102 I do describe that
`Okamura describes a first input of selecting Place
`Tab 413.
` Q. And let's turn to Exhibit 1004. I
`believe it would be PDF page 19, either on the
`screen or on your sheet of paper. You do have
`Okamura in front of you, right?
` A. Yes, I do.
` Q. And what we're talking about in relation
`to the first input is this Place Tab, capital
`p-l-a-c-e, and that is Item 413, right?
` A. That's correct.
` Q. And then we also discuss a map view in
`the claim, and you opine that Okamura's cluster map
`display area 414 is the map view, correct? I'm
`pointing to it with my mouse.
` A. In paragraph 69 of my declaration I say:
`In my opinion Okamura's cluster map display area 414
`is the claimed map view and a POSITA would have
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`further understood as much.
` Q. Now let's turn to the claim term
`interactive map. Included in that term is the word
`map, correct?
` A. Correct.
` Q. You opined that Okamara's arranged
`cluster maps in a 3 by 5 matrix forms the claimed
`map; is that correct?
` A. I think that's right. In paragraph 76 of
`my declaration I say: Moreover, the arranged
`cluster maps 417 and a 3 by 5 matrix form a map
`because the cluster maps show geographic map areas
`as discussed above.
` Q. And turning back to -- I want to draw
`your attention again to Figure 18, we see a matrix
`of 15 cluster maps, right?
` A. I think that's right.
` Q. And each cluster map is inside a circle,
`right?
` A. That's correct.
` Q. So just to confirm, I want to make sure
`I'm understanding your opinion. In your view, the
`collection of 15 cluster maps in Figure 18 -- and we
`have things like Tokyo Disneyland and Narita
`Airport, Waikiki in Hawaii -- correspond to the
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`claimed interactive map, correct?
` MR. BARAZESH: Objection, form.
`BY MR. WERBER:
` Q. You can continue and answer if you
`understood the question.
` A. Could you repeat the question, please.
` Q. Yeah, and I'll rephrase. I want to make
`sure if your opinion the 15 cluster maps in this
`arrangement correspond to the claimed interactive
`map in Figure 18?
` MR. BARAZESH: I object to the form.
` THE WITNESS: In paragraph 76 regarding
`Okamura, I said in my opinion Okamura's arranged
`cluster maps 417 form an interactive map as claimed
`and a POSITA would have further understood as much.
`So I did say my opinion is the arranged cluster maps
`417 form an interactive map.
`BY MR. WERBER:
` Q. Okay. It's your opinion that the
`15 cluster maps correspond to the claimed
`interactive map, right?
` MR. BARAZESH: Objection, form. Objection,
`asked and answered.
` THE WITNESS: My opinion is in my declaration.
`What I said is that regarding Okamura, Okamura's
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`arranged cluster maps 417 form an interactive map.
`BY MR. WERBER:
` Q. And just to be clear, your declaration
`does not opine that an individual cluster map
`corresponds to the claimed interactive map, right?
` MR. BARAZESH: Objection, form.
` THE WITNESS: I certainly don't see anything
`that I wrote that says the individual cluster maps
`are not maps.
` What I said was Okamura's arranged
`cluster maps 417 form an interactive map.
` I go on to explain that throughout
`paragraph 76 and I do say a number of things
`regarding the cluster maps including, for example,
`second sentence from the end of that paragraph. I
`said: Indeed, a user moving mouse cursor 419 to
`cluster maps 417 effectuating some change in the
`display of cluster maps 417, i.e., changing their
`color and making information 418 display shows that
`the cluster maps are interactive.
`
`BY MR. WERBER:
` Q. And so back to my question -- and my
`question was only what's in your opinion -- in your
`declaration you do not opine that an individual
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`cluster map forms the claimed map?
` MR. BARAZESH: Objection, asked and answered.
` THE WITNESS: Again, as I said, I certainly
`don't see anything here in my declaration that says
`that an individual cluster map is not an interactive
`map, and I explained a number of parts of my opinion
`regarding Okamara's disclosure of interactive map,
`including the sentence that I just read that
`explains, among other things, that the various kinds
`of interactions shows that the cluster maps are
`interactive.
` MR. WERBER: Move to strike as unresponsive.
` Q. My question for you is not what you -- my
`question for you is whether in your declaration you
`opined that an individual cluster map forms the
`claimed interactive map?
` MR. BARAZESH: I'm going to object to asked
`and answered and also argumentative.
` THE WITNESS: Sorry. I didn't understand.
`Was that a question?
`
`BY MR. WERBER:
` Q. Yes, I'll rephrase. Did you or did you
`not opine in your declaration that an individual
`cluster map forms the claimed map?
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` MR. BARAZESH: Objection, asked and answered.
` THE WITNESS: I think my opinion speaks for
`itself regarding Okamura.
` My opinion about the disclosure --
`Okamura's disclosure of interactive map is in
`paragraph 76, and I explained a number of parts of
`Okamura's disclosure that shows how it discloses an
`interactive map, including, for example, that
`Okamura's arranged cluster maps 417 form a
`interactive map, as well as that various interaction
`shows that the cluster maps are interactive.
`BY MR. WERBER:
` Q. Dr. Bederson, will you answer my
`question? Did you or did you not state in your
`declaration that an individual cluster map forms the
`claim map?
` MR. BARAZESH: Objection, asked and answered.
`Objection, argumentative.
` THE WITNESS: I did answer your question as to
`my opinion is what it is. It is in my report, and I
`think I explained how Okamura discloses interactive
`map in a number of ways.
`BY MR. WERBER:
` Q. Dr. Bederson, you understood my question,
`but you have not answered it. I'll repeat. Did you
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`or did you not opine in your declaration that an
`individual cluster map forms the claimed interactive
`map?
` MR. BARAZESH: Objection, asked and answered.
`BY MR. WERBER:
` Q. That's my only question and it has not
`been answered.
` MR. BARAZESH: I'm just going to object.
`Asked and answered, argumentative.
` THE WITNESS: I did not use the language that
`you are asking about in your question in my opinion,
`but I did explain my opinion with a number of
`disclosures including, as I said a few different
`ways, that Okamura discloses an interactive map.
` MR. WERBER: Okay. Let's take a brief break.
`I want to do a couple of technical things for a
`moment. Is ten minutes okay?
` MR. BARAZESH: That's fine.
` THE WITNESS: Yeah.
` MR. WERBER: Thank you.
` (A recess was had.)
`BY MR. WERBER:
` Q. Let's stay with Okamura and then turn to
`Figure 15B, that's Exhibit 1004.
` A. Okay.
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` Q. In your opinion does Figure 15B of
`Okamura show a map?
` MR. BARAZESH: Objection, form.
` THE WITNESS: I don't recall forming a
`specific opinion about whether Figure 15B of Okamura
`shows a map.
` If you have a particular part of my
`declaration that you are speaking of and want to
`point me to that, that would make it faster for me.
`Otherwise, I don't have an opinion about that
`because I can't recall forming such an opinion.
`BY MR. WERBER:
` Q. Sitting here today at the deposition, do
`you have any reason to dispute that Figure 15B shows
`a map?
` MR. BARAZESH: Objection, form.
` THE WITNESS: As I said, I didn't form an
`opinion about Figure 15B, so I don't have an opinion
`one way or the other about it.
`BY MR. WERBER:
` Q. It's your testimony under oath today that
`you cannot say whether or not Figure 15B shows a
`map?
` MR. BARAZESH: Objection, form, asked and
`answered.
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` THE WITNESS: What I said is that in my
`declaration I don't recall forming an opinion about
`whether Figure 15B of Okamura shows a map.
`BY MR. WERBER:
` Q. Okay. And my question was a little bit
`different. Do you have any reason to dispute
`sitting here today that Figure 15B shows a map?
` MR. BARAZESH: Objection, form, asked and
`answered.
` THE WITNESS: As I said, since I don't recall
`having an opinion about that issue, I don't have an
`opinion today one way or the other about Figure 15B.
`BY MR. WERBER:
` Q. Just to confirm, it's your testimony
`under oath sitting here today that you cannot say
`whether or not Figure 15B shows a map; that is your
`testimony under oath, correct?
` MR. BARAZESH: Objection, form.
` THE WITNESS: I didn't say that I cannot form
`an opinion. I said that I did not form an opinion.
` My opinion is in my report, and assuming
`my recollection is correct that I did not form an
`opinion about whether Figure 15B of Okamura shows a
`map, then I don't have such an opinion.
`BY MR. WERBER:
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` Q. So you just stated -- you did not say you
`cannot form an opinion, but you did not form an
`opinion. My question is can you form an opinion as
`to whether or not Figure 15B shows a map?
` MR. BARAZESH: Objection, form.
` THE WITNESS: Certainly I could. I have
`analyzed many other figures and elements of Okamura,
`and in doing so I've spent a fair amount of time
`doing that.
` I'm not accustomed to forming such
`opinions on the fly though.
`BY MR. WERBER:
` Q. Just a moment. Let's continue with the
`word map. Do you define -- do you form an opinion
`as to what a map is in your declaration?
` MR. BARAZESH: Objection, form.
` THE WITNESS: You are asking if I defined the
`term map or offered a construction for it. The
`answer is no, I have not offered construction for
`any terms.
`
`BY MR. WERBER:
` Q. Let's turn to paragraph 0226 of Okamura.
`Do you have that in front of you?
` A. I do.
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` Q. And the first sentence of paragraph 0226
`says: Figure 15B shows extraction areas, 264 and
`265, at which cluster maps are extracted from a map
`263 of the Japanese Archipelago.
` Did I read that correctly?
` A. Yes, you did.
` Q. Do you have any reason to dispute that at
`least Okamura states that Item 263 is a map?
` MR. BARAZESH: Objection, form.
` THE WITNESS: I certainly don't object to what
`Okamura says. I mean it says what it says.
` It does seem to describe in Figure 15B --
`well, it at least labels Item 263 as a map of the
`Japanese Archipelago.
`BY MR. WERBER:
` Q. And Items 264 and 265, it identifies
`those as extraction areas, correct?
` MR. BARAZESH: Objection, form.
` THE WITN
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