` ___________________________
`
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
`Page 1
`
` ___________________________
`
` APPLIED MATERIALS, INC
` Petitioner
`
` v.
`
` OCEAN SEMICONDUCTOR, LLC
` Patent Owner
` ___________________________
`
` IPR 2021-01342
` U.S. Patent No. 6,968,248
` ___________________________
`
` - - -
`
` August 29, 2022
`
` - - -
`
` Oral deposition of DR. STANLEY
` SHANFIELD, taken pursuant to Notice, held
` via Zoom, beginning at approximately 10:00
` a.m., before Mary Hammond, a Registered
` Professional Reporter and Notary Public in
` the state of Pennsylvania.
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`215-241-1000 ~ 610-434-8588 ~ 302-571-0510 ~ 202-803-8830
`
`1
`2
`3
`
`4
`
`5 6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`10
`11
`
`12
`13
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`
`IPR2021-01342
`PATENT OWNER, EX 2044
`
`
`
`Page 2
`
`A - P - P - E - A - R - A - N - C - E - S
`
` T H E D E V L I N L A W F I R M L L C
` B Y : J O S E P H Z I T O , E S Q U I R E
` 1 5 2 6 G i l p i n A v e n u e
` W i l m i n g t o n , D e l a w a r e 1 9 8 0 6
` ( 3 0 2 ) 4 4 9 - 9 0 1 0
` j z i t o @ d e v l i n l a w f i r m . c o m
` C o u n s e l f o r O c e a n S e m i c o n d u c t o r , L L C
`
` A X I N N , V E L T R O P & H A R K R I D E R , L L P
` B Y : D O N A L D W A N G , E S Q U I R E
` B Y : E R I C A . K R A U S E , E S Q U I R E
` 5 6 0 M i s s i o n S t r e e t
` S a n F r a n c i s c o , C a l i f o r n i a 9 4 1 0 5
` ( 4 1 5 ) 4 9 0 - 1 4 9 1
` d w a n g @ a x i n n . c o m
` e k r a u s e @ a x i n n . c o m
` C o u n s e l f o r A p p l i e d M a t e r i a l s
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`215-241-1000 ~ 610-434-8588 ~ 302-571-0510 ~ 202-803-8830
`
`1
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6 7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`1 0
`
`1 1
`1 2
`1 3
`1 4
`1 5
`1 6
`1 7
`1 8
`1 9
`2 0
`2 1
`2 2
`2 3
`2 4
`
`IPR2021-01342
`PATENT OWNER, EX 2044
`
`
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`Page 3
`
` - - -
`
` I-N-D-E-X
`
` - - -
`
`WITNESS:
`
`DR. STANLEY SHANFIELD
`
` PAGE
`
`BY MR. ZITO 5
`
`BY MR. WANG --
`
`BY MR. KRAUSE --
`
` - - -
`
` E-X-H-I-B-I-T-S
`
` - - -
`
` NAME DESCRIPTION PAGE
`
` (Whereupon, there were no exhibits
`
` marked at this time.)
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`215-241-1000 ~ 610-434-8588 ~ 302-571-0510 ~ 202-803-8830
`
`IPR2021-01342
`PATENT OWNER, EX 2044
`
`
`
`Page 4
`
` - - -
`
` P-R-O-C-E-E-D-I-N-G-S
`
` - - -
`
` (By agreement of counsel, the
`
` reading, signing, sealing, certification
`
` and filing are waived, and all objections
`
` as to the form of the question, are
`
` reserved until the time of trial.)
`
` - - -
`
` THE COURT REPORTER: The attorneys
`
` participating in this deposition
`
` acknowledge that I am not physically
`
` present in the deposition room, and that I
`
` will be reporting this deposition
`
` remotely.
`
` They further acknowledge that, in
`
` lieu of an oath administered in person, I
`
` will administer the oath remotely.
`
` The parties further agree that if
`
` the witness is testifying from a state
`
` where I am not a Notary, that the witness
`
` may be sworn in by an out-of-state Notary.
`
` If any party has an objection to
`
` this manner of reporting, please state it
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`215-241-1000 ~ 610-434-8588 ~ 302-571-0510 ~ 202-803-8830
`
`IPR2021-01342
`PATENT OWNER, EX 2044
`
`
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`Page 5
`
` now.
`
` - - -
`
` DR. STANLEY SHANFIELD, after having
`
` been first duly sworn, was examined and
`
` testified as follows:
`
` - - -
`
` DIRECT EXAMINATION
`
` - - -
`
`BY MR. ZITO:
`
` Q. Good morning, Dr. Shanfield.
`
` A. Good morning.
`
` Q. Before -- sorry.
`
` MR. WANG: I didn't realize we're
`
` not making appearances.
`
` So this is Don Wang. I'm here from
`
` Axinn Veltrop & Harkrider. We are here on
`
` behalf of the Defendant Applied Materials.
`
` And also here with me is Eric Krause.
`
` We just want to make an objection
`
` on the record that Mr. Zito has not
`
` appeared in the two matters before, before
`
` what we're doing today, which is IPR
`
` 2021-01322 and IQR 2021-01344.
`
` My understanding is the Mr. Zito
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`215-241-1000 ~ 610-434-8588 ~ 302-571-0510 ~ 202-803-8830
`
`IPR2021-01342
`PATENT OWNER, EX 2044
`
`
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`Page 6
`
` will file an appearance by the end of
`
` today.
`
` Thank you. Sorry for the
`
` interpretation.
`
` MR. ZITO: No problem. That's our
`
` understanding today, too. We will file my
`
` appearance by the end of the day.
`
`BY MR. ZITO:
`
` Q. Good morning, again, Dr. Shanfield.
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. Good to see you.
`
` A. Likewise.
`
` Q. You understand we're here on two patents
`
`today?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. Okay.
`
` The '248 and the '305 patent, correct?
`
` A. Correct, yes.
`
` Q. All right.
`
` My understanding is we're doing this as a
`
`combined deposition where I'm going to you
`
`questions, and this one deposition can be used in
`
`both of those IPRs.
`
` MR. ZITO: Is that all Counsel's
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`215-241-1000 ~ 610-434-8588 ~ 302-571-0510 ~ 202-803-8830
`
`IPR2021-01342
`PATENT OWNER, EX 2044
`
`
`
`Page 7
`
` understanding?
`
` MR. WANG: That's fine with us.
`
` MR. ZITO: All right. We're not
`
` going to split it up into one patent
`
` versus the other, okay.
`
`BY MR. ZITO:
`
` Q. All right.
`
` Looking at the -- let's look, first, at
`
`the '248 patent.
`
` Can you just briefly summarize what your
`
`understanding is of the teachings of the '248
`
`patent?
`
` A. I think the abstract is a good
`
`description. It's a method and apparatus for
`
`scheduling in an automated manufacturing
`
`environment.
`
` Q. And would that be the same description for
`
`the '305 patent?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. And can you tell me what -- in the
`
`timeframe of the filing or the priority date of
`
`2002, what was meant by scheduling in a
`
`manufacturing environment --
`
` MR. WANG: Objection. Scope and
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`215-241-1000 ~ 610-434-8588 ~ 302-571-0510 ~ 202-803-8830
`
`IPR2021-01342
`PATENT OWNER, EX 2044
`
`
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`Page 8
`
` form.
`
`BY MR. ZITO:
`
` Q. -- from the perspective of one of ordinary
`
`skill in the art?
`
` A. So I take this question up to some extent
`
`in my declaration, paragraph 131, where the preamble
`
`says, "A method for scheduling in an automated
`
`manufacturing environment."
`
` And as I explained there, Schulze
`
`discloses such a manufacturing environment. He's
`
`describing a semiconductor fabrication facility
`
`within an automated monitoring and assessment
`
`system.
`
` So that would be my understanding of one
`
`version of an automated manufacturing environment.
`
` Q. I'm scrolling down to paragraph 101. Give
`
`me a second.
`
` A. 101 in where?
`
` Q. Right.
`
` In your declaration.
`
` A. Okay.
`
` Q. Yes, okay.
`
` Where you talk about Gupta teachings, is
`
`that the paragraph you're looking at?
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`215-241-1000 ~ 610-434-8588 ~ 302-571-0510 ~ 202-803-8830
`
`IPR2021-01342
`PATENT OWNER, EX 2044
`
`
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`Page 9
`
` A. No. No. 131.
`
` Q. Oh, 131. My mistake.
`
` All right.
`
` So you use Schulze as the reference --
`
`that's Schulze '083, which is the Schulze Patent
`
`Application Publication, correct, that you're
`
`referring to?
`
` A. Yes, that's correct.
`
` Q. All right.
`
` A. Exhibit-1007.
`
` Q. And you use that for -- as an example of
`
`your understanding of person of ordinary skill in
`
`the art for an automated manufacturing environment
`
`in the 2002 timeframe?
`
` A. That's correct.
`
` Q. You go on to say that, "A person of
`
`ordinary skill in the art would be automated to
`
`combine the teachings of Schulze and Gupta."
`
` What does Gupta add to Schulze?
`
` A. With Gupta and Schulze combined, it
`
`discloses a method for scheduling the operation of
`
`interrelated machines, which perform off process
`
`flow on a highly automated, in this case, front-end
`
`manufacturing facility for integrated circuits, and
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`215-241-1000 ~ 610-434-8588 ~ 302-571-0510 ~ 202-803-8830
`
`IPR2021-01342
`PATENT OWNER, EX 2044
`
`
`
`Page 10
`
`that comes from Gupta's abstract.
`
` Q. Okay.
`
` And that would make -- combining these two
`
`would make a system for automatic scheduling, or
`
`just Gupta -- Gupta has the system for automated
`
`scheduling?
`
` MR. WANG: Objection. Form.
`
` THE WITNESS: So what I am saying
`
` is that a person of skill in the art would
`
` have been motivated to combine Schulze and
`
` Gupta, and that combination discloses a
`
` method for scheduling the operation of
`
` interrelated machines, which perform a
`
` process flow in a highly automated
`
` front-end manufacturing facility for
`
` integrated circuits.
`
`BY MR. ZITO:
`
` Q. But neither of them alone keeps that; is
`
`that correct?
`
` A. No. I don't know which -- what part of it
`
`you're referring to, but --
`
` Q. Okay.
`
` A. -- I don't agree with that statement.
`
` Q. Fine.
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`215-241-1000 ~ 610-434-8588 ~ 302-571-0510 ~ 202-803-8830
`
`IPR2021-01342
`PATENT OWNER, EX 2044
`
`
`
`Page 11
`
` Well, then why com -- if either Gupta or
`
`Schulze alone taught a method for scheduling in an
`
`automated-manufacturing environment, what would be
`
`the need to combine them?
`
` MR. WANG: Objection to form.
`
` THE WITNESS: You had started off
`
` by asking me what an automated
`
` manufacturing was and --
`
`BY MR. ZITO:
`
` Q. Right.
`
` A. -- and I said that Schulze disclosed that.
`
` Q. Correct.
`
` But in Schulze's there isn't any
`
`scheduling of anything in that environment, correct?
`
` MR. WANG: Objection. Form.
`
` THE WITNESS: No, it's not correct.
`
`BY MR. ZITO:
`
` Q. Okay.
`
` Where does Schulze talk about scheduling
`
`things in an automated manufacturing environment?
`
` A. So Schulze uses or describes a system and
`
`method for automated-monitoring assessment of a
`
`fabrication facility. One of the aspects that you
`
`read about in Schulze, in paragraph 15 at the
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`215-241-1000 ~ 610-434-8588 ~ 302-571-0510 ~ 202-803-8830
`
`IPR2021-01342
`PATENT OWNER, EX 2044
`
`
`
`Page 12
`
`bottom, is what he says "During operation, the state
`
`models are updated for each tool affected by one of
`
`the triggers and transitions within the state model
`
`are recorded in a tracking database."
`
` So their state of equipment, whether --
`
`and I think he gives a number of examples,
`
`"unscheduled downtime," that's in Paragraph 8, in
`
`about the middle.
`
` "Scheduled downtime," "engineering time,"
`
`"standby time," "productive time," all of those are
`
`inputs to a scheduling activity, and so Schulze
`
`is -- relates, you know, intimately with what is
`
`required to perform scheduling, and provides that
`
`information to be able to accomplish scheduling.
`
` Q. Is there anyplace else that you believe
`
`Schulze discusses scheduling?
`
` A. That -- those aspects of states is
`
`discussed all the way through Schulze. It would
`
`probably take me 20 minutes to go through all the
`
`places where this equipment state concept is
`
`discussed, so your -- your question would take a
`
`while to answer.
`
` Q. All right.
`
` And does Schulze talk about changing
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`215-241-1000 ~ 610-434-8588 ~ 302-571-0510 ~ 202-803-8830
`
`IPR2021-01342
`PATENT OWNER, EX 2044
`
`
`
`Page 13
`
`scheduling based upon its monitoring of any of these
`
`state models?
`
` A. Could you repeat your question?
`
` Q. Sure. Does Schulze, as you said, is for
`
`monitoring equipment, correct?
`
` A. No, I didn't say that.
`
` Q. Okay.
`
` Then you read from the abstract. A method
`
`for monitoring and assessing operation of a
`
`semiconductor fabrication facility?
`
` A. Right.
`
` Q. Okay.
`
` And does that through not directly
`
`monitoring the individual equipment, but receiving
`
`state signals, amongst other things, regarding each
`
`piece of equipment; is that correct?
`
` A. That's one aspect, yes.
`
` Q. Does Schulze provide any of the
`
`information it receives or monitors to a scheduler,
`
`does it talk about that anywhere?
`
` MR. WANG: Objection. Form.
`
` THE WITNESS: Well, let me direct
`
` you to paragraph 17, about the middle of
`
` the paragraph, where it talks about, "A
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`215-241-1000 ~ 610-434-8588 ~ 302-571-0510 ~ 202-803-8830
`
`IPR2021-01342
`PATENT OWNER, EX 2044
`
`
`
`Page 14
`
` state model logic receives the tracking
`
` operation information for each fabrication
`
` tool having defined states in a state
`
` transition logic defining triggering
`
` events, and a state transitions related to
`
` the triggering events."
`
` So Schulze also talks about
`
` irrigating events, and essentially that
`
` change of state is the input a scheduler is
`
` going to take -- is going to need; and,
`
` therefore, it's more than just passive
`
` information.
`
` There are triggering events and a
`
` specific information needed that gets --
`
` ends up as input to any scheduling that
`
` might be done.
`
`BY MR. ZITO:
`
` Q. So a state change transition logger is
`
`part of the Schulze system?
`
` MR. WANG: Objection. Form.
`
` THE WITNESS: I didn't say anything
`
` about a logger. I said that Schulze
`
` establishes the state model logic from the
`
` tracking operation information, and that
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`215-241-1000 ~ 610-434-8588 ~ 302-571-0510 ~ 202-803-8830
`
`IPR2021-01342
`PATENT OWNER, EX 2044
`
`
`
`Page 15
`
` some of this logic results in triggering
`
` events.
`
` Triggering events will end up being
`
` and are required for scheduling material in
`
` the -- in our case, of a semiconductor FAB
`
` scheduling waivers within the semiconductor
`
` facility.
`
` So it's very directly and
`
` intimately involved with the -- how the
`
` scheduling changes, and how it evolves in
`
` the -- in the fab.
`
`BY MR. ZITO:
`
` Q. Does Schulze state that, what you just
`
`said, that these triggering events are important for
`
`scheduling?
`
` MR. WANG: Objection to form.
`
` THE WITNESS: Maybe I'm not
`
` explaining myself well enough.
`
` All right. Let me give you an
`
` example.
`
` Paragraph 75 in Schulze talking
`
` about a particular state transition, and he
`
` describes that as, "defined as an automatic
`
` transition from a productive state to an
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`215-241-1000 ~ 610-434-8588 ~ 302-571-0510 ~ 202-803-8830
`
`IPR2021-01342
`PATENT OWNER, EX 2044
`
`
`
`Page 16
`
` unscheduled down state."
`
` So it's apparent in that state
`
` transition how relevant it is to
`
` scheduling. I think that in reading, you
`
` know, or in understanding that I -- and
`
` this would be a person of any skill in the
`
` art, really, will understand that coming
`
` from productive state to an unscheduled
`
` downstate has to be part of the input to a
`
` scheduling system.
`
` I don't know that it could be any
`
` more clear than that.
`
`BY MR. ZITO:
`
` Q. So am I correct that your testimony is
`
`that one of ordinary skill in the art would
`
`recognize the relevance of these states to
`
`scheduling.
`
` It is not that Schulze specifically says
`
`these states are relevant to scheduling; is that
`
`correct?
`
` MR. WANG: Objection. Form,
`
` compound.
`
` THE WITNESS: No.
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`215-241-1000 ~ 610-434-8588 ~ 302-571-0510 ~ 202-803-8830
`
`IPR2021-01342
`PATENT OWNER, EX 2044
`
`
`
`Page 17
`
`BY MR. ZITO:
`
` Q. Okay.
`
` Then where does Schulze specifically
`
`directly state that -- understood where it directly
`
`states that these -- that the states that are
`
`monitored in paragraph 17 would be useful for or
`
`directly relate to a scheduler?
`
` MR. WANG: Objection to form.
`
` THE WITNESS: Well, the example I
`
` gave you is one -- one place where Schulze
`
` refers to unscheduled down state. He's
`
` clearly thinking about scheduled versus
`
` unscheduled downtime being irrelevant
`
` difference in state, and it's only going
`
` to be useful for scheduling.
`
` So it's a -- you know, a fact of
`
` the description that Schulze is providing
`
` that scheduling is intimately involved
`
` in -- or rather the states that Schulze is
`
` providing are required during scheduling.
`
` You know, the -- I don't know that
`
` I can explain it any more thoroughly than
`
` that.
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`215-241-1000 ~ 610-434-8588 ~ 302-571-0510 ~ 202-803-8830
`
`IPR2021-01342
`PATENT OWNER, EX 2044
`
`
`
`Page 18
`
`BY MR. ZITO:
`
` Q. Right.
`
` And what I'm not asking for -- I
`
`understand your opinion on what Schulze is thinking.
`
`I understand your opinion on what you believe is one
`
`ordinary skilled in the art. But I'm not asking you
`
`for an explanation.
`
` I'm asking you if you can point to where
`
`Schulze specifically states -- what you just said
`
`Schulze was thinking, that unscheduled downtime
`
`would be important to scheduling, where he
`
`specifically makes that statement, not what you are
`
`giving an opinion on his thinking.
`
` MR. WANG: Objection. Form.
`
` THE WITNESS: Well, it may take me
`
` a while to determine whether that
`
` specifically said, but I think it -- it's
`
` apparent, for example, in Paragraph 81,
`
` when a trigger message causes an automatic
`
` transition from an unscheduled down state
`
` to a productive state, there isn't
`
` anything more relevant to a scheduler than
`
` when equipment is in a scheduled down
`
` state, and then makes the transition back
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`215-241-1000 ~ 610-434-8588 ~ 302-571-0510 ~ 202-803-8830
`
`IPR2021-01342
`PATENT OWNER, EX 2044
`
`
`
`Page 19
`
` to a productive state. That's obviously
`
` something that would be required in order
`
` to perform scheduling.
`
` So, once again, there's statements
`
` all over Schulze about the nature of the
`
` system that he's describing and the method
`
` and the mention of scheduling and a sense
`
` of unscheduled or scheduled downtime is in
`
` there as well.
`
` So that's the best I can give you.
`
`BY MR. ZITO:
`
` Q. And Schulze receives all of these
`
`triggers, correct, or receives open messages
`
`about --
`
` MR. WANG: Objection.
`
`BY MR. ZITO:
`
` Q. -- transition from unscheduled down to
`
`productive state; is that correct -- my correct
`
`understanding?
`
` MR. WANG: Objection. Form.
`
` THE WITNESS: No.
`
`BY MR. ZITO:
`
` Q. Okay.
`
` How does -- does Schulze create the
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`215-241-1000 ~ 610-434-8588 ~ 302-571-0510 ~ 202-803-8830
`
`IPR2021-01342
`PATENT OWNER, EX 2044
`
`
`
`Page 20
`
`triggering?
`
` A. In some cases.
`
` Q. Does Schulze receive the trigger in other
`
`cases?
`
` MR. WANG: Objection. Form.
`
`BY MR. ZITO:
`
` Q. Let me take you back to Paragraph 17,
`
`roughly where you left off. It says -- roughly, in
`
`the middle of the paragraph, "and a state transition
`
`logic defining triggering events and a state
`
`transition later to the trigger event."
`
` Is that logic part of the Schulze system?
`
` A. I'm sorry. Where were you reading in 17?
`
` Q. 17.
`
` A. One, two, three, four, five, six, seven,
`
`eight lines down, at the end of that line the
`
`sentence starts with, "a state model logic."
`
` Q. Okay.
`
` A. "A state model logic receives the tracking
`
`operation information for each fabrication tool
`
`having defined states, and a state transition logic
`
`defining trigger events, and the state transitions
`
`related to the triggering events."
`
` So he's describing there the state model
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`215-241-1000 ~ 610-434-8588 ~ 302-571-0510 ~ 202-803-8830
`
`IPR2021-01342
`PATENT OWNER, EX 2044
`
`
`
`Page 21
`
`logic of his method --
`
` Q. Okay.
`
` A. -- receives tracking operation information
`
`and then determines a state and a state transition.
`
` Q. Okay.
`
` So the tracking operation information
`
`could be in the two examples you picked out,
`
`productive, or unscheduled downtime; is that a
`
`correct understanding?
`
` A. No.
`
` MR. WANG: Objection to form.
`
`BY MR. ZITO:
`
` Q. So what would be the tracking operation
`
`information that's received?
`
` A. That would be what, for example, I mean,
`
`and he shows us in his diagram, Figure 1, the MES,
`
`Manufacturing Execution System, provides tracking
`
`operation information.
`
` And then Schulze has another box -- let me
`
`go up to that diagram, Figure 1, called "Automated
`
`Monitoring and Assessment System," and that -- that
`
`determines the state, and has a hierarchy of state
`
`transitions designed into it.
`
` Q. And that state transition logic would then
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`215-241-1000 ~ 610-434-8588 ~ 302-571-0510 ~ 202-803-8830
`
`IPR2021-01342
`PATENT OWNER, EX 2044
`
`
`
`Page 22
`
`define its triggering event as productive or
`
`unscheduled downtime, for example?
`
` A. Schulze actually goes into a lot of detail
`
`in Paragraph 8 on that point. He starts with a
`
`description of this E 10 standard, semi standard,
`
`which defines six basic equipment states. Total
`
`time for each tool is divided into operations time
`
`and nonscheduled time.
`
` And then in about the middle of the
`
`paragraph, "Operations time is divided into five
`
`different categories: Unscheduled downtime,
`
`scheduled downtime, engineering time, standby time,
`
`productive time."
`
` So those are examples of the states
`
`that in -- in Schulze's method that are -- can be
`
`assumed, and then there are hierarchies of states.
`
` So the -- he's following the semi-standard
`
`definition of the six basic equipment states.
`
` Q. So operations time is a state?
`
` A. No. Total time for each tool is divided
`
`into Operations time and nonscheduled time. And
`
`then Operations time is divided into these
`
`categories of states: Unscheduled downtime,
`
`scheduled downtime, engineering time, standby time,
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`215-241-1000 ~ 610-434-8588 ~ 302-571-0510 ~ 202-803-8830
`
`IPR2021-01342
`PATENT OWNER, EX 2044
`
`
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`Page 23
`
`and productive time.
`
` Q. All right.
`
` So --
`
` A. And this comprises the six basic equipment
`
`states.
`
` Q. Okay.
`
` So unscheduled downtime is a state?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. Okay. Good.
`
` That's what I thought you said in 75 and
`
`81. I was trying to relate that to Paragraph 17.
`
` It says, "A state model logic receives a
`
`tracking operation for each fabrication tool having
`
`defined states."
`
` Okay.
`
` So does -- is that where -- where the
`
`model logic receives unscheduled downtime state?
`
` A. No. The box in Schulze's Figure 1
`
`receives tracking operation information from the MES
`
`for each fabrication tool.
`
` Q. Okay.
`
` A. And then that box defines triggering
`
`events, state transitions related to the triggering
`
`event, and so on.
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`215-241-1000 ~ 610-434-8588 ~ 302-571-0510 ~ 202-803-8830
`
`IPR2021-01342
`PATENT OWNER, EX 2044
`
`
`
`Page 24
`
` Q. Okay.
`
` Then the next sentence says, "If the
`
`fabrication tool has a state change," that would be
`
`like from unscheduled downtime to productive time,
`
`would that be a state change?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. Okay.
`
` "A state change transition logger inputs
`
`this information to a tracking database recording
`
`transition information."
`
` So that's also part of the Schulze system?
`
` A. That's what he -- that's what he
`
`describes, yes.
`
` Q. Okay.
`
` Then he describes a report generator that
`
`may generate performance matrix for the fabrication
`
`tools.
`
` That's also part of the Schulze system?
`
` MR. WANG: Objection. Scope.
`
` THE WITNESS: That's what he's
`
` written in his Paragraph 17, yes.
`
`BY MR. ZITO:
`
` Q. So is it accurate to say that Schulze
`
`teaches tracking operations, looking at states and
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`215-241-1000 ~ 610-434-8588 ~ 302-571-0510 ~ 202-803-8830
`
`IPR2021-01342
`PATENT OWNER, EX 2044
`
`
`
`Page 25
`
`trigger events to assess the overall equipment
`
`effectiveness, and overall fabrication of
`
`effectiveness of the fabrication tools?
`
` MR. WANG: Objection. Form.
`
` THE WITNESS: No.
`
`BY MR. ZITO:
`
` Q. Okay.
`
` Why -- why -- that's what it says in
`
`Paragraph 17.
`
` Why is that not an accurate description?
`
` A. That's one of the uses in Schulze. The
`
`state -- the conditions of the state of equipment
`
`would be input to a scheduler.
`
` It would be essential to any effort to
`
`schedule material that's running through the
`
`semiconductor line.
`
` And that's, I believe, what is relevant to
`
`the claims that we're discussing in the '248.
`
` Q. Okay.
`
` But my question is: Does Schulze
`
`specifically state that or are you inferring or
`
`understanding that from Schulze?
`
` MR. WANG: Objection. Form.
`
` THE WITNESS: If you're asking does
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`215-241-1000 ~ 610-434-8588 ~ 302-571-0510 ~ 202-803-8830
`
`IPR2021-01342
`PATENT OWNER, EX 2044
`
`
`
`Page 26
`
` he use some specific words, why don't you
`
` tell me what specific words you -- you
`
` think are -- are -- you're asking me
`
` about.
`
` What -- what are the words that I
`
` should look for in your question?
`
`BY MR. ZITO:
`
` Q. The exact words you use, that this
`
`information is essential to proper scheduling, your
`
`testimony, does he say that in there?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` MR. WANG: Objection to form.
`
` THE WITNESS: A person of ordinary
`
` skill in the art would understand that,
`
` and that's the nature of scheduling.
`
` Unscheduled downtime means it's not
`
` accounted for in the schedule. The term,
`
` "unscheduled" is -- has the word "schedule"
`
` in it.
`
` How much more specific can it be?
`
`BY MR. ZITO:
`
` Q. Well, I'm asking: Do you find it to be
`
`more specific -- do you find him to say what you
`
`said, that unscheduled downtime is important to
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`215-241-1000 ~ 610-434-8588 ~ 302-571-0510 ~ 202-803-8830
`
`IPR2021-01342
`PATENT OWNER, EX 2044
`
`
`
`Page 27
`
`scheduling, does he say those words?
`
` MR. WANG: Objection. Form.
`
` THE WITNESS: Well, I would need to
`
` look through the patent to see, but my
`
` guess is no.
`
` That is something that is
`
` understood by, you know, a person of skill
`
` in the art that -- or, basically, any
`
` casual reader that -- when you talk about
`
` something unscheduled, clearly there's a
`
` schedule involved.
`
` And when you talk about "schedule
`
` downtime," clearly there's a schedule
`
` involved in "schedule downtime."
`
` So it can't get more specific than
`
` that, in my opinion.
`
`BY MR. ZITO:
`
` Q. All right.
`
` Now, is it also your understanding that
`
`something is doing that scheduling in this facility
`
`that's being monitored by Schulze?
`
` MR. WANG: Objection. Form.
`
` THE WITNESS: The scheduling in the
`
` prior art identified is being done in
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`215-241-1000 ~ 610-434-8588 ~ 302-571-0510 ~ 202-803-8830
`
`IPR2021-01342
`PATENT OWNER, EX 2044
`
`
`
`Page 28
`
` Gupta's scheduling agent. That's why the
`
` combination of Gupta and Schulze is what
`
` I'm citing as the reason it's obvious that
`
` the '248 was already prior art.
`
`BY MR. ZITO:
`
` Q. Okay.
`
` So am I understanding you to say that
`
`Schulze -- anyone of ordinary skill in the art,
`
`meaning Schulze -- would see that there are events,
`
`which relate to scheduling, such as unscheduled
`
`downtime, and that person of skill in the art would
`
`know that some sort of tool scheduler, like Gupta,
`
`must already been running in this facility to take
`
`care of the scheduling there?
`
` MR. WANG: Objection. Form.
`
`BY MR. ZITO:
`
` Q. Is that what you're saying?
`
` A. No.
`
` MR. WANG: Objection. Form.
`
` Sorry. Before you proceed,
`
` Dr. Shanfield, if you can pause a second to
`
` give me a chance to object to the question.
`
` THE WITNESS: Okay, yes. I'm sorry
`
` about that.
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16