UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
` ___________________________
`
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
`Page 1
`
` ___________________________
`
` APPLIED MATERIALS, INC
` Petitioner
`
` v.
`
` OCEAN SEMICONDUCTOR, LLC
` Patent Owner
` ___________________________
`
` IPR 2021-01342
` U.S. Patent No. 6,968,248
` ___________________________
`
` - - -
`
` August 29, 2022
`
` - - -
`
` Oral deposition of DR. STANLEY
` SHANFIELD, taken pursuant to Notice, held
` via Zoom, beginning at approximately 10:00
` a.m., before Mary Hammond, a Registered
` Professional Reporter and Notary Public in
` the state of Pennsylvania.
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`IPR2021-01342
`PATENT OWNER, EX 2044
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` ___________________________
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` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
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`Page 1
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` ___________________________
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` APPLIED MATERIALS, INC
` Petitioner
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` v.
`
` OCEAN SEMICONDUCTOR, LLC
` Patent Owner
` ___________________________
`
` IPR 2021-01342
` U.S. Patent No. 6,968,248
` ___________________________
`
` - - -
`
` August 29, 2022
`
` - - -
`
` Oral deposition of DR. STANLEY
` SHANFIELD, taken pursuant to Notice, held
` via Zoom, beginning at approximately 10:00
` a.m., before Mary Hammond, a Registered
` Professional Reporter and Notary Public in
` the state of Pennsylvania.
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`A - P - P - E - A - R - A - N - C - E - S
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` A X I N N , V E L T R O P & H A R K R I D E R , L L P
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` I-N-D-E-X
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`WITNESS:
`
`DR. STANLEY SHANFIELD
`
` PAGE
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`BY MR. ZITO 5
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`BY MR. WANG --
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`BY MR. KRAUSE --
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` - - -
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` E-X-H-I-B-I-T-S
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` NAME DESCRIPTION PAGE
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` (Whereupon, there were no exhibits
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` marked at this time.)
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` P-R-O-C-E-E-D-I-N-G-S
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` (By agreement of counsel, the
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` reading, signing, sealing, certification
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` and filing are waived, and all objections
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` as to the form of the question, are
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` reserved until the time of trial.)
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` - - -
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` THE COURT REPORTER: The attorneys
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` participating in this deposition
`
` acknowledge that I am not physically
`
` present in the deposition room, and that I
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` will be reporting this deposition
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` remotely.
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` They further acknowledge that, in
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` lieu of an oath administered in person, I
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` will administer the oath remotely.
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` The parties further agree that if
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` the witness is testifying from a state
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` where I am not a Notary, that the witness
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` may be sworn in by an out-of-state Notary.
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` If any party has an objection to
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` this manner of reporting, please state it
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` now.
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` DR. STANLEY SHANFIELD, after having
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` been first duly sworn, was examined and
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` testified as follows:
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` - - -
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` DIRECT EXAMINATION
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` - - -
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`BY MR. ZITO:
`
` Q. Good morning, Dr. Shanfield.
`
` A. Good morning.
`
` Q. Before -- sorry.
`
` MR. WANG: I didn't realize we're
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` not making appearances.
`
` So this is Don Wang. I'm here from
`
` Axinn Veltrop & Harkrider. We are here on
`
` behalf of the Defendant Applied Materials.
`
` And also here with me is Eric Krause.
`
` We just want to make an objection
`
` on the record that Mr. Zito has not
`
` appeared in the two matters before, before
`
` what we're doing today, which is IPR
`
` 2021-01322 and IQR 2021-01344.
`
` My understanding is the Mr. Zito
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` will file an appearance by the end of
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` today.
`
` Thank you. Sorry for the
`
` interpretation.
`
` MR. ZITO: No problem. That's our
`
` understanding today, too. We will file my
`
` appearance by the end of the day.
`
`BY MR. ZITO:
`
` Q. Good morning, again, Dr. Shanfield.
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. Good to see you.
`
` A. Likewise.
`
` Q. You understand we're here on two patents
`
`today?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. Okay.
`
` The '248 and the '305 patent, correct?
`
` A. Correct, yes.
`
` Q. All right.
`
` My understanding is we're doing this as a
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`combined deposition where I'm going to you
`
`questions, and this one deposition can be used in
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`both of those IPRs.
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` MR. ZITO: Is that all Counsel's
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` understanding?
`
` MR. WANG: That's fine with us.
`
` MR. ZITO: All right. We're not
`
` going to split it up into one patent
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` versus the other, okay.
`
`BY MR. ZITO:
`
` Q. All right.
`
` Looking at the -- let's look, first, at
`
`the '248 patent.
`
` Can you just briefly summarize what your
`
`understanding is of the teachings of the '248
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`patent?
`
` A. I think the abstract is a good
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`description. It's a method and apparatus for
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`scheduling in an automated manufacturing
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`environment.
`
` Q. And would that be the same description for
`
`the '305 patent?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. And can you tell me what -- in the
`
`timeframe of the filing or the priority date of
`
`2002, what was meant by scheduling in a
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`manufacturing environment --
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` MR. WANG: Objection. Scope and
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` form.
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`BY MR. ZITO:
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` Q. -- from the perspective of one of ordinary
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`skill in the art?
`
` A. So I take this question up to some extent
`
`in my declaration, paragraph 131, where the preamble
`
`says, "A method for scheduling in an automated
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`manufacturing environment."
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` And as I explained there, Schulze
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`discloses such a manufacturing environment. He's
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`describing a semiconductor fabrication facility
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`within an automated monitoring and assessment
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`system.
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` So that would be my understanding of one
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`version of an automated manufacturing environment.
`
` Q. I'm scrolling down to paragraph 101. Give
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`me a second.
`
` A. 101 in where?
`
` Q. Right.
`
` In your declaration.
`
` A. Okay.
`
` Q. Yes, okay.
`
` Where you talk about Gupta teachings, is
`
`that the paragraph you're looking at?
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` A. No. No. 131.
`
` Q. Oh, 131. My mistake.
`
` All right.
`
` So you use Schulze as the reference --
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`that's Schulze '083, which is the Schulze Patent
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`Application Publication, correct, that you're
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`referring to?
`
` A. Yes, that's correct.
`
` Q. All right.
`
` A. Exhibit-1007.
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` Q. And you use that for -- as an example of
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`your understanding of person of ordinary skill in
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`the art for an automated manufacturing environment
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`in the 2002 timeframe?
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` A. That's correct.
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` Q. You go on to say that, "A person of
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`ordinary skill in the art would be automated to
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`combine the teachings of Schulze and Gupta."
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` What does Gupta add to Schulze?
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` A. With Gupta and Schulze combined, it
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`discloses a method for scheduling the operation of
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`interrelated machines, which perform off process
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`flow on a highly automated, in this case, front-end
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`manufacturing facility for integrated circuits, and
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`that comes from Gupta's abstract.
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` Q. Okay.
`
` And that would make -- combining these two
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`would make a system for automatic scheduling, or
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`just Gupta -- Gupta has the system for automated
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`scheduling?
`
` MR. WANG: Objection. Form.
`
` THE WITNESS: So what I am saying
`
` is that a person of skill in the art would
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` have been motivated to combine Schulze and
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` Gupta, and that combination discloses a
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` method for scheduling the operation of
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` interrelated machines, which perform a
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` process flow in a highly automated
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` front-end manufacturing facility for
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` integrated circuits.
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`BY MR. ZITO:
`
` Q. But neither of them alone keeps that; is
`
`that correct?
`
` A. No. I don't know which -- what part of it
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`you're referring to, but --
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` Q. Okay.
`
` A. -- I don't agree with that statement.
`
` Q. Fine.
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` Well, then why com -- if either Gupta or
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`Schulze alone taught a method for scheduling in an
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`automated-manufacturing environment, what would be
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`the need to combine them?
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` MR. WANG: Objection to form.
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` THE WITNESS: You had started off
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` by asking me what an automated
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` manufacturing was and --
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`BY MR. ZITO:
`
` Q. Right.
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` A. -- and I said that Schulze disclosed that.
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` Q. Correct.
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` But in Schulze's there isn't any
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`scheduling of anything in that environment, correct?
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` MR. WANG: Objection. Form.
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` THE WITNESS: No, it's not correct.
`
`BY MR. ZITO:
`
` Q. Okay.
`
` Where does Schulze talk about scheduling
`
`things in an automated manufacturing environment?
`
` A. So Schulze uses or describes a system and
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`method for automated-monitoring assessment of a
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`fabrication facility. One of the aspects that you
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`read about in Schulze, in paragraph 15 at the
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`bottom, is what he says "During operation, the state
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`models are updated for each tool affected by one of
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`the triggers and transitions within the state model
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`are recorded in a tracking database."
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` So their state of equipment, whether --
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`and I think he gives a number of examples,
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`"unscheduled downtime," that's in Paragraph 8, in
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`about the middle.
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` "Scheduled downtime," "engineering time,"
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`"standby time," "productive time," all of those are
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`inputs to a scheduling activity, and so Schulze
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`is -- relates, you know, intimately with what is
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`required to perform scheduling, and provides that
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`information to be able to accomplish scheduling.
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` Q. Is there anyplace else that you believe
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`Schulze discusses scheduling?
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` A. That -- those aspects of states is
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`discussed all the way through Schulze. It would
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`probably take me 20 minutes to go through all the
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`places where this equipment state concept is
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`discussed, so your -- your question would take a
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`while to answer.
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` Q. All right.
`
` And does Schulze talk about changing
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`scheduling based upon its monitoring of any of these
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`state models?
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` A. Could you repeat your question?
`
` Q. Sure. Does Schulze, as you said, is for
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`monitoring equipment, correct?
`
` A. No, I didn't say that.
`
` Q. Okay.
`
` Then you read from the abstract. A method
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`for monitoring and assessing operation of a
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`semiconductor fabrication facility?
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` A. Right.
`
` Q. Okay.
`
` And does that through not directly
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`monitoring the individual equipment, but receiving
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`state signals, amongst other things, regarding each
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`piece of equipment; is that correct?
`
` A. That's one aspect, yes.
`
` Q. Does Schulze provide any of the
`
`information it receives or monitors to a scheduler,
`
`does it talk about that anywhere?
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` MR. WANG: Objection. Form.
`
` THE WITNESS: Well, let me direct
`
` you to paragraph 17, about the middle of
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` the paragraph, where it talks about, "A
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` state model logic receives the tracking
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` operation information for each fabrication
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` tool having defined states in a state
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` transition logic defining triggering
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` events, and a state transitions related to
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` the triggering events."
`
` So Schulze also talks about
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` irrigating events, and essentially that
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` change of state is the input a scheduler is
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` going to take -- is going to need; and,
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` therefore, it's more than just passive
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` information.
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` There are triggering events and a
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` specific information needed that gets --
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` ends up as input to any scheduling that
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` might be done.
`
`BY MR. ZITO:
`
` Q. So a state change transition logger is
`
`part of the Schulze system?
`
` MR. WANG: Objection. Form.
`
` THE WITNESS: I didn't say anything
`
` about a logger. I said that Schulze
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` establishes the state model logic from the
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` tracking operation information, and that
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` some of this logic results in triggering
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` events.
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` Triggering events will end up being
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` and are required for scheduling material in
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` the -- in our case, of a semiconductor FAB
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` scheduling waivers within the semiconductor
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` facility.
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` So it's very directly and
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` intimately involved with the -- how the
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` scheduling changes, and how it evolves in
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` the -- in the fab.
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`BY MR. ZITO:
`
` Q. Does Schulze state that, what you just
`
`said, that these triggering events are important for
`
`scheduling?
`
` MR. WANG: Objection to form.
`
` THE WITNESS: Maybe I'm not
`
` explaining myself well enough.
`
` All right. Let me give you an
`
` example.
`
` Paragraph 75 in Schulze talking
`
` about a particular state transition, and he
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` describes that as, "defined as an automatic
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` transition from a productive state to an
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`Page 16
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` unscheduled down state."
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` So it's apparent in that state
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` transition how relevant it is to
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` scheduling. I think that in reading, you
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` know, or in understanding that I -- and
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` this would be a person of any skill in the
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` art, really, will understand that coming
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` from productive state to an unscheduled
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` downstate has to be part of the input to a
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` scheduling system.
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` I don't know that it could be any
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` more clear than that.
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`BY MR. ZITO:
`
` Q. So am I correct that your testimony is
`
`that one of ordinary skill in the art would
`
`recognize the relevance of these states to
`
`scheduling.
`
` It is not that Schulze specifically says
`
`these states are relevant to scheduling; is that
`
`correct?
`
` MR. WANG: Objection. Form,
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` compound.
`
` THE WITNESS: No.
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`Page 17
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`BY MR. ZITO:
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` Q. Okay.
`
` Then where does Schulze specifically
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`directly state that -- understood where it directly
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`states that these -- that the states that are
`
`monitored in paragraph 17 would be useful for or
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`directly relate to a scheduler?
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` MR. WANG: Objection to form.
`
` THE WITNESS: Well, the example I
`
` gave you is one -- one place where Schulze
`
` refers to unscheduled down state. He's
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` clearly thinking about scheduled versus
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` unscheduled downtime being irrelevant
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` difference in state, and it's only going
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` to be useful for scheduling.
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` So it's a -- you know, a fact of
`
` the description that Schulze is providing
`
` that scheduling is intimately involved
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` in -- or rather the states that Schulze is
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` providing are required during scheduling.
`
` You know, the -- I don't know that
`
` I can explain it any more thoroughly than
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` that.
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`BY MR. ZITO:
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` Q. Right.
`
` And what I'm not asking for -- I
`
`understand your opinion on what Schulze is thinking.
`
`I understand your opinion on what you believe is one
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`ordinary skilled in the art. But I'm not asking you
`
`for an explanation.
`
` I'm asking you if you can point to where
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`Schulze specifically states -- what you just said
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`Schulze was thinking, that unscheduled downtime
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`would be important to scheduling, where he
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`specifically makes that statement, not what you are
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`giving an opinion on his thinking.
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` MR. WANG: Objection. Form.
`
` THE WITNESS: Well, it may take me
`
` a while to determine whether that
`
` specifically said, but I think it -- it's
`
` apparent, for example, in Paragraph 81,
`
` when a trigger message causes an automatic
`
` transition from an unscheduled down state
`
` to a productive state, there isn't
`
` anything more relevant to a scheduler than
`
` when equipment is in a scheduled down
`
` state, and then makes the transition back
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`Page 19
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` to a productive state. That's obviously
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` something that would be required in order
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` to perform scheduling.
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` So, once again, there's statements
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` all over Schulze about the nature of the
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` system that he's describing and the method
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` and the mention of scheduling and a sense
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` of unscheduled or scheduled downtime is in
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` there as well.
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` So that's the best I can give you.
`
`BY MR. ZITO:
`
` Q. And Schulze receives all of these
`
`triggers, correct, or receives open messages
`
`about --
`
` MR. WANG: Objection.
`
`BY MR. ZITO:
`
` Q. -- transition from unscheduled down to
`
`productive state; is that correct -- my correct
`
`understanding?
`
` MR. WANG: Objection. Form.
`
` THE WITNESS: No.
`
`BY MR. ZITO:
`
` Q. Okay.
`
` How does -- does Schulze create the
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`Page 20
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`triggering?
`
` A. In some cases.
`
` Q. Does Schulze receive the trigger in other
`
`cases?
`
` MR. WANG: Objection. Form.
`
`BY MR. ZITO:
`
` Q. Let me take you back to Paragraph 17,
`
`roughly where you left off. It says -- roughly, in
`
`the middle of the paragraph, "and a state transition
`
`logic defining triggering events and a state
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`transition later to the trigger event."
`
` Is that logic part of the Schulze system?
`
` A. I'm sorry. Where were you reading in 17?
`
` Q. 17.
`
` A. One, two, three, four, five, six, seven,
`
`eight lines down, at the end of that line the
`
`sentence starts with, "a state model logic."
`
` Q. Okay.
`
` A. "A state model logic receives the tracking
`
`operation information for each fabrication tool
`
`having defined states, and a state transition logic
`
`defining trigger events, and the state transitions
`
`related to the triggering events."
`
` So he's describing there the state model
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`Page 21
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`logic of his method --
`
` Q. Okay.
`
` A. -- receives tracking operation information
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`and then determines a state and a state transition.
`
` Q. Okay.
`
` So the tracking operation information
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`could be in the two examples you picked out,
`
`productive, or unscheduled downtime; is that a
`
`correct understanding?
`
` A. No.
`
` MR. WANG: Objection to form.
`
`BY MR. ZITO:
`
` Q. So what would be the tracking operation
`
`information that's received?
`
` A. That would be what, for example, I mean,
`
`and he shows us in his diagram, Figure 1, the MES,
`
`Manufacturing Execution System, provides tracking
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`operation information.
`
` And then Schulze has another box -- let me
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`go up to that diagram, Figure 1, called "Automated
`
`Monitoring and Assessment System," and that -- that
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`determines the state, and has a hierarchy of state
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`transitions designed into it.
`
` Q. And that state transition logic would then
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`Page 22
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`define its triggering event as productive or
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`unscheduled downtime, for example?
`
` A. Schulze actually goes into a lot of detail
`
`in Paragraph 8 on that point. He starts with a
`
`description of this E 10 standard, semi standard,
`
`which defines six basic equipment states. Total
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`time for each tool is divided into operations time
`
`and nonscheduled time.
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` And then in about the middle of the
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`paragraph, "Operations time is divided into five
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`different categories: Unscheduled downtime,
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`scheduled downtime, engineering time, standby time,
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`productive time."
`
` So those are examples of the states
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`that in -- in Schulze's method that are -- can be
`
`assumed, and then there are hierarchies of states.
`
` So the -- he's following the semi-standard
`
`definition of the six basic equipment states.
`
` Q. So operations time is a state?
`
` A. No. Total time for each tool is divided
`
`into Operations time and nonscheduled time. And
`
`then Operations time is divided into these
`
`categories of states: Unscheduled downtime,
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`scheduled downtime, engineering time, standby time,
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`Page 23
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`and productive time.
`
` Q. All right.
`
` So --
`
` A. And this comprises the six basic equipment
`
`states.
`
` Q. Okay.
`
` So unscheduled downtime is a state?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. Okay. Good.
`
` That's what I thought you said in 75 and
`
`81. I was trying to relate that to Paragraph 17.
`
` It says, "A state model logic receives a
`
`tracking operation for each fabrication tool having
`
`defined states."
`
` Okay.
`
` So does -- is that where -- where the
`
`model logic receives unscheduled downtime state?
`
` A. No. The box in Schulze's Figure 1
`
`receives tracking operation information from the MES
`
`for each fabrication tool.
`
` Q. Okay.
`
` A. And then that box defines triggering
`
`events, state transitions related to the triggering
`
`event, and so on.
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` Q. Okay.
`
` Then the next sentence says, "If the
`
`fabrication tool has a state change," that would be
`
`like from unscheduled downtime to productive time,
`
`would that be a state change?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. Okay.
`
` "A state change transition logger inputs
`
`this information to a tracking database recording
`
`transition information."
`
` So that's also part of the Schulze system?
`
` A. That's what he -- that's what he
`
`describes, yes.
`
` Q. Okay.
`
` Then he describes a report generator that
`
`may generate performance matrix for the fabrication
`
`tools.
`
` That's also part of the Schulze system?
`
` MR. WANG: Objection. Scope.
`
` THE WITNESS: That's what he's
`
` written in his Paragraph 17, yes.
`
`BY MR. ZITO:
`
` Q. So is it accurate to say that Schulze
`
`teaches tracking operations, looking at states and
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`Page 25
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`trigger events to assess the overall equipment
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`effectiveness, and overall fabrication of
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`effectiveness of the fabrication tools?
`
` MR. WANG: Objection. Form.
`
` THE WITNESS: No.
`
`BY MR. ZITO:
`
` Q. Okay.
`
` Why -- why -- that's what it says in
`
`Paragraph 17.
`
` Why is that not an accurate description?
`
` A. That's one of the uses in Schulze. The
`
`state -- the conditions of the state of equipment
`
`would be input to a scheduler.
`
` It would be essential to any effort to
`
`schedule material that's running through the
`
`semiconductor line.
`
` And that's, I believe, what is relevant to
`
`the claims that we're discussing in the '248.
`
` Q. Okay.
`
` But my question is: Does Schulze
`
`specifically state that or are you inferring or
`
`understanding that from Schulze?
`
` MR. WANG: Objection. Form.
`
` THE WITNESS: If you're asking does
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`Page 26
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` he use some specific words, why don't you
`
` tell me what specific words you -- you
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` think are -- are -- you're asking me
`
` about.
`
` What -- what are the words that I
`
` should look for in your question?
`
`BY MR. ZITO:
`
` Q. The exact words you use, that this
`
`information is essential to proper scheduling, your
`
`testimony, does he say that in there?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` MR. WANG: Objection to form.
`
` THE WITNESS: A person of ordinary
`
` skill in the art would understand that,
`
` and that's the nature of scheduling.
`
` Unscheduled downtime means it's not
`
` accounted for in the schedule. The term,
`
` "unscheduled" is -- has the word "schedule"
`
` in it.
`
` How much more specific can it be?
`
`BY MR. ZITO:
`
` Q. Well, I'm asking: Do you find it to be
`
`more specific -- do you find him to say what you
`
`said, that unscheduled downtime is important to
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`Page 27
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`scheduling, does he say those words?
`
` MR. WANG: Objection. Form.
`
` THE WITNESS: Well, I would need to
`
` look through the patent to see, but my
`
` guess is no.
`
` That is something that is
`
` understood by, you know, a person of skill
`
` in the art that -- or, basically, any
`
` casual reader that -- when you talk about
`
` something unscheduled, clearly there's a
`
` schedule involved.
`
` And when you talk about "schedule
`
` downtime," clearly there's a schedule
`
` involved in "schedule downtime."
`
` So it can't get more specific than
`
` that, in my opinion.
`
`BY MR. ZITO:
`
` Q. All right.
`
` Now, is it also your understanding that
`
`something is doing that scheduling in this facility
`
`that's being monitored by Schulze?
`
` MR. WANG: Objection. Form.
`
` THE WITNESS: The scheduling in the
`
` prior art identified is being done in
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`Page 28
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` Gupta's scheduling agent. That's why the
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` combination of Gupta and Schulze is what
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` I'm citing as the reason it's obvious that
`
` the '248 was already prior art.
`
`BY MR. ZITO:
`
` Q. Okay.
`
` So am I understanding you to say that
`
`Schulze -- anyone of ordinary skill in the art,
`
`meaning Schulze -- would see that there are events,
`
`which relate to scheduling, such as unscheduled
`
`downtime, and that person of skill in the art would
`
`know that some sort of tool scheduler, like Gupta,
`
`must already been running in this facility to take
`
`care of the scheduling there?
`
` MR. WANG: Objection. Form.
`
`BY MR. ZITO:
`
` Q. Is that what you're saying?
`
` A. No.
`
` MR. WANG: Objection. Form.
`
` Sorry. Before you proceed,
`
` Dr. Shanfield, if you can pause a second to
`
` give me a chance to object to the question.
`
` THE WITNESS: Okay, yes. I'm sorry
`
` about that.
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