In the Matter Of:
`
`GOOGLE V. NEONODE
`
`IPR2021-01041
`
`DEPOSITION SOLUTIONS
`
`Page 2062-Page 1
`Neonode Exhibit 2062
`Google v. Neonode, IPR2021-01041
`800.211.DEPO (3376)
`EsquireSolutions.com
`
`DR. JACOB O. WOBBROCK
`
`September 08, 2022
`
`Page 2062-Page 1
`Neonode Exhibit 2062
`Google v. Neonode, IPR2021-01041
`
`
`
`GOOGLE V. NEONODE
`
`IPR2021-01041
`
`DEPOSITION SOLUTIONS
`
`Page 2062-Page 1
`Neonode Exhibit 2062
`Google v. Neonode, IPR2021-01041
`800.211.DEPO (3376)
`EsquireSolutions.com
`
`DR. JACOB O. WOBBROCK
`
`September 08, 2022
`
`Page 2062-Page 1
`Neonode Exhibit 2062
`Google v. Neonode, IPR2021-01041
`
`
`
`·1· · · · · · UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`
`·2· · · · · · ·BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
`·3
`
`·4· GOOGLE LLC,· · · · · · · · · · · · ·)
`· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · )
`·5· · · · · · · · · Petitioner,· · · · ·)
`· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · )
`·6· · · · · · ·vs.· · · · · · · · · · · ) Case No. IPR2021-01041
`· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · )
`·7· NEONODE SMARTPHONE LLC,· · · · · · ·)
`· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · )
`·8· · · · · · · · · Patent Owner.· · · ·)
`· · ____________________________________)
`·9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14· · · · · · · DEPOSITION TAKEN VIA ZOOM OF DR. JACOB O.
`
`15· · · · · · · WOBBROCK, the witness appearing remotely at
`
`16· · · · · · · 9:02 a.m. on Thursday, September 8, 2022,
`
`17· · · · · · · before Jimmy Rodriguez, CSR 13464.
`
`18
`
`19· · · · · · · Job No. J8537920
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`Page 2062-Page 2
`Neonode Exhibit 2062
`Google v. Neonode, IPR2021-01041
`
`
`
`·1· ·APPEARANCES OF COUNSEL:
`
`·2· ·FOR PETITIONER:
`
`·3· · · · · · FINNEGAN HENDERSON FARABOW GARRETT & DUNNER
`· · · · · · · BY:· KEVIN D. RODKEY, Esq.
`·4· · · · · · · · ·(Appearance Via Zoom)
`· · · · · · · · · ·- And -
`·5· · · · · · · · ·YI YU, Ph.D.
`· · · · · · · · · ·(Appearance Via Zoom)
`·6· · · · · · 271 17th Street, NW
`· · · · · · · Suite 1400
`·7· · · · · · Atlanta, GA 30363
`· · · · · · · TEL:· (404) 653-6484
`·8· · · · · · Kevin.rodkey@finnegan.com
`
`·9
`· · ·FOR PATENT OWNER:
`10
`· · · · · · · LOWENSTEIN & WEATHERWAX, LLP
`11· · · · · · BY:· PARHAM HENDIFAR, Esq.
`· · · · · · · · · ·(Appearance Via Zoom)
`12· · · · · · 1880 Century Park East
`· · · · · · · Suite 815
`13· · · · · · Los Angeles, CA 90067
`· · · · · · · TEL:· (310) 307-4510
`14· · · · · · Hendifar@lowensteinweatherwax.com
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`Page 2062-Page 3
`Neonode Exhibit 2062
`Google v. Neonode, IPR2021-01041
`
`
`
`·1· · · · · · · · · · · · · ·I N D E X
`
`·2
`
`·3· ·EXAMINATIONS· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · PAGE
`
`·4· ·BY MR. HENDIFAR· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·4
`
`·5
`
`·6
`
`·7· · · · · · · · · · · · E X H I B I T S
`
`·8· · · · · · · · · · · · (None offered.)
`
`·9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14· · · · · · · · WITNESS INSTRUCTED NOT TO ANSWER
`
`15· · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·(None)
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18· · · · · · · · · · ·INFORMATION REQUESTED
`
`19· · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·(None)
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`Page 2062-Page 4
`Neonode Exhibit 2062
`Google v. Neonode, IPR2021-01041
`
`
`
`·1· · · · · · · · · Thursday, September 8, 2022
`
`·2· · · · · · · · · · ·9:02 a.m. - 9:34 a.m.
`
`·3
`
`·4· · · · · · · · · · ·DR. JACOB O. WOBBROCK,
`
`·5· ·produced as a witness and having been first duly sworn
`
`·6· ·by the Certified Shorthand Reporter, was examined and
`
`·7· ·testified as follows:
`
`·8
`
`·9· · · · · · · · · · · · · EXAMINATION
`
`10· ·BY MR. HENDIFAR:
`
`11· · · ·Q· · ·Good morning, Dr. Wobbrock.· Thank you very
`
`12· ·much for your time this morning.· What did you do to
`
`13· ·prepare for your deposition today?
`
`14· · · ·A· · ·Well, I reviewed my second declaration,
`
`15· ·which I know you have as an exhibit.· And I also met
`
`16· ·with counsel for petitioner just to talk to --
`
`17· · · · · · ·MR. RODKEY:· And --
`
`18· · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· -- some of the issues.
`
`19· · · · · · ·MR. RODKEY:· -- I want to caution the
`
`20· ·witness not to disclose the topics or any information
`
`21· ·related to discussions held with counsel.
`
`22· · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· Understood.
`
`23· ·BY MR. HENDIFAR:
`
`24· · · ·Q· · ·May I please refer you to Paragraph 6 of
`
`25· ·your second declaration.
`
`Page 2062-Page 5
`Neonode Exhibit 2062
`Google v. Neonode, IPR2021-01041
`
`
`
`·1· · · · · · ·MR. RODKEY:· So we're on the same page, can
`
`·2· ·you just put the exhibit number in the record so it's
`
`·3· ·on the transcript?
`
`·4· · · · · · ·MR. HENDIFAR:· Sure.
`
`·5· ·BY MR. HENDIFAR:
`
`·6· · · ·Q· · ·When I refer to your second declaration,
`
`·7· ·Dr. Wobbrock, I'll be referring to Petitioner
`
`·8· ·Exhibit 1032.· May I please refer you to Paragraph 6
`
`·9· ·of that exhibit.
`
`10· · · ·A· · ·Okay.
`
`11· · · ·Q· · ·There you explain that you disagree with
`
`12· ·many positions expressed by Dr. Rosenberg; do you see
`
`13· ·that?
`
`14· · · ·A· · ·Yes, I do.
`
`15· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.· Did you determine which portions of
`
`16· ·your disagreements with Dr. Rosenberg to include in
`
`17· ·your second declaration and which portions not to
`
`18· ·include?
`
`19· · · · · · ·MR. RODKEY:· Objection, form.
`
`20· · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· I'm not sure I caught every
`
`21· ·word of the question, if you could repeat it, I'd
`
`22· ·appreciate that, thank you.
`
`23· ·BY MR. HENDIFAR:
`
`24· · · ·Q· · ·Of course.
`
`25· · · · · · ·Did you determine which portions of your
`
`Page 2062-Page 6
`Neonode Exhibit 2062
`Google v. Neonode, IPR2021-01041
`
`
`
`·1· ·disagreements with Dr. Rosenberg to include in your
`
`·2· ·second declaration and which portions not to include?
`
`·3· · · · · · ·MR. RODKEY:· Objection, to form.
`
`·4· · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· I was asked to provide my
`
`·5· ·opinion in a second declaration, specifically related
`
`·6· ·to Dr. Rosenberg's use of the term "desktop" with
`
`·7· ·respect to the Robertson reference; and the related
`
`·8· ·issue of Dr. Rosenberg's referring to the X Windows
`
`·9· ·platform and its use on various computing platforms,
`
`10· ·particularly what I thought was his erroneous
`
`11· ·assertion that it was an operating system confined to
`
`12· ·use on desktop hardware computer workstations; which
`
`13· ·it's not, and it's been used on mobile computing
`
`14· ·platforms since before the priority date.· So I wanted
`
`15· ·to clarify those two issues.
`
`16· ·BY MR. HENDIFAR:
`
`17· · · ·Q· · ·Thank you for that explanation.
`
`18· · · · · · ·What is a light pen?
`
`19· · · · · · ·MR. RODKEY:· Objection, scope.
`
`20· · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· Could you give me a pointer to
`
`21· ·a specific instance of where you're seeing that used
`
`22· ·in my declaration or elsewhere so I have some context?
`
`23· ·BY MR. HENDIFAR:
`
`24· · · ·Q· · ·I don't believe it's used in your
`
`25· ·declaration.· So maybe I'll start with some
`
`Page 2062-Page 7
`Neonode Exhibit 2062
`Google v. Neonode, IPR2021-01041
`
`
`
`·1· ·foundational questions.
`
`·2· · · · · · ·Are you familiar with an input device for
`
`·3· ·computers known as a light pen?
`
`·4· · · · · · ·MR. RODKEY:· Objection, scope.
`
`·5· · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· Light pens are a computer
`
`·6· ·input device that I have certainly encountered in my
`
`·7· ·research work and in my work as an expert in human
`
`·8· ·computer interaction and user interfaces.· But I have
`
`·9· ·not recently encountered light pens or worked with
`
`10· ·them in this matter to my knowledge thus far.
`
`11· ·BY MR. HENDIFAR:
`
`12· · · ·Q· · ·Thank you.
`
`13· · · · · · ·And what is a light pen?
`
`14· · · · · · ·MR. RODKEY:· Objection, scope.
`
`15· · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· Well, just speaking very
`
`16· ·broadly here about input devices in general, a light
`
`17· ·pen would be considered in a similar category of input
`
`18· ·device as a mouse or a touchscreen or even eye
`
`19· ·tracking, all of these are methods for providing input
`
`20· ·to a computer system.
`
`21· ·BY MR. HENDIFAR:
`
`22· · · ·Q· · ·And how does a light pen provide input to
`
`23· ·the system?
`
`24· · · · · · ·MR. RODKEY:· Objection, scope.
`
`25· · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· Well, a light pen as the name
`
`Page 2062-Page 8
`Neonode Exhibit 2062
`Google v. Neonode, IPR2021-01041
`
`
`
`·1· ·suggests is a type of pen input.· There are many other
`
`·2· ·kinds of pen input devices as well.· A light pen uses
`
`·3· ·light that is emitted from the pen and tracked by a
`
`·4· ·receiver; for example, but not always, the receiver
`
`·5· ·might be behind a screen and the location of the light
`
`·6· ·spot is tracked, which tells the system where the pen
`
`·7· ·is on the screen.
`
`·8· ·BY MR. HENDIFAR:
`
`·9· · · ·Q· · ·Thank you for that explanation.
`
`10· · · · · · ·Now, I don't recall ever having seen a light
`
`11· ·pen and I wonder if that's because they're no longer
`
`12· ·in use, or I was just having bad luck, so my question
`
`13· ·is, are light pens still in common use in the
`
`14· ·industry?
`
`15· · · ·A· · ·I've certainly seen light pens in computing
`
`16· ·systems both historically and in current systems. I
`
`17· ·believe they still are in use, although I could not
`
`18· ·point you to a make and model of a system off the top
`
`19· ·of my head.· They are in the class of pen computing
`
`20· ·input devices and have had a long history in the input
`
`21· ·device space of human computer interaction
`
`22· ·technologies.
`
`23· · · ·Q· · ·Are light pens used generally with desktop
`
`24· ·or laptop computers now or when they were commonly
`
`25· ·being used, whenever that was?
`
`Page 2062-Page 9
`Neonode Exhibit 2062
`Google v. Neonode, IPR2021-01041
`
`
`
`·1· · · · · · ·MR. RODKEY:· Objection, scope and form.
`
`·2· · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· I really haven't considered
`
`·3· ·that question.· I'm not sure I could say.· The use of
`
`·4· ·light pens like with all computer input devices such
`
`·5· ·as mice, these are generic input devices that can be
`
`·6· ·used across many different kinds of platforms.· It
`
`·7· ·really just depends on how the platforms are
`
`·8· ·implemented.
`
`·9· ·BY MR. HENDIFAR:
`
`10· · · ·Q· · ·Is it true that light pens have a wire that
`
`11· ·connects into the computer so that the detection of
`
`12· ·the light could be transmitted back to the computer?
`
`13· · · ·A· · ·I have seen light pens that had a wire
`
`14· ·connected to the computer.· I have no doubt there are
`
`15· ·light pens that operate without a wire; for example,
`
`16· ·on a wireless connection, over Bluetooth for example
`
`17· ·would be one option.· Again, just like mice, which
`
`18· ·might have a cable to the computer or might operate
`
`19· ·over Bluetooth, we're talking here with light pens
`
`20· ·about a generic input device that could be used on any
`
`21· ·number of computing systems, platforms, any particular
`
`22· ·kinds of hardware designs, including the way that they
`
`23· ·connect to the computer.
`
`24· · · ·Q· · ·May I please refer you to Paragraph 21 of
`
`25· ·your second declaration, Exhibit 1032.
`
`Page 2062-Page 10
`Neonode Exhibit 2062
`Google v. Neonode, IPR2021-01041
`
`
`
`·1· · · ·A· · ·Paragraph 21?
`
`·2· · · ·Q· · ·Yes, please.
`
`·3· · · ·A· · ·Okay, I'm there.
`
`·4· · · ·Q· · ·Did you select the Newton's Telecom
`
`·5· ·Dictionary as your source for evidence?
`
`·6· · · ·A· · ·I am familiar with Newton's Telecom
`
`·7· ·Dictionary, I've seen this dictionary cited
`
`·8· ·previously.· In this particular instance this -- this
`
`·9· ·definition of "desktop" and the use of Newton's
`
`10· ·dictionary was pointed out to me by counsel.· But I'm
`
`11· ·familiar with Newton's Telecom Dictionary as a popular
`
`12· ·reference.
`
`13· · · ·Q· · ·Same question with Barron's dictionary, did
`
`14· ·you select the Barron's dictionary to cite in your
`
`15· ·declaration?
`
`16· · · · · · ·MR. RODKEY:· And I wanted to just caution
`
`17· ·the witness not to disclose the substance of any
`
`18· ·conversations with counsel.
`
`19· · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· Understood.
`
`20· · · · · · ·My answer is the same as before.
`
`21· ·BY MR. HENDIFAR:
`
`22· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.· Did you personally search for any
`
`23· ·dictionary definitions of the word "desktop"?
`
`24· · · ·A· · ·I did my searching for the use of "desktop"
`
`25· ·in the other references that we see in my second
`
`Page 2062-Page 11
`Neonode Exhibit 2062
`Google v. Neonode, IPR2021-01041
`
`
`
`·1· ·declaration, finding its use in, for example, manuals
`
`·2· ·describing handheld computer platforms, referring to
`
`·3· ·desktop as the virtual onscreen user interface desktop
`
`·4· ·metaphor of files and folders and trash bins and icons
`
`·5· ·and so on, menus; so those are the references that I
`
`·6· ·searched for.· I did not myself search for dictionary
`
`·7· ·definitions in this particular case.
`
`·8· · · ·Q· · ·Thank you.· Are you familiar with a
`
`·9· ·processor named Pentium II?
`
`10· · · · · · ·MR. RODKEY:· Objection, scope.
`
`11· · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· I'm vaguely familiar with the
`
`12· ·Pentium line of processors that I believe Intel
`
`13· ·Computer Corporation created, but only vaguely.
`
`14· ·BY MR. HENDIFAR:
`
`15· · · ·Q· · ·I'm sorry, did I interrupt you?
`
`16· · · ·A· · ·I just said only vaguely familiar.
`
`17· · · ·Q· · ·And why is it that your familiarity with
`
`18· ·Pentium processors is only vague?
`
`19· · · · · · ·MR. RODKEY:· Objection, mischaracterizes,
`
`20· ·scope.
`
`21· · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· You asked me if I'm familiar
`
`22· ·with the Pentium II processor; that's a very specific
`
`23· ·processor in the Pentium line.· My expertise is in
`
`24· ·human computer interaction, user interface, and so on.
`
`25· ·Processor architecture is a different area of
`
`Page 2062-Page 12
`Neonode Exhibit 2062
`Google v. Neonode, IPR2021-01041
`
`
`
`·1· ·specialization in computer engineering, and so while
`
`·2· ·I've encountered the Pentium line of processors in
`
`·3· ·passing, it's not something I've spent my time and
`
`·4· ·education studying.
`
`·5· ·BY MR. HENDIFAR:
`
`·6· · · ·Q· · ·Do you have any knowledge about what was the
`
`·7· ·typical weight of a laptop computer with a Pentium II
`
`·8· ·processor around the year 2001?
`
`·9· · · · · · ·MR. RODKEY:· Objection, scope, relevance.
`
`10· · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· I couldn't say.
`
`11· ·BY MR. HENDIFAR:
`
`12· · · ·Q· · ·Do you have any knowledge about the typical
`
`13· ·dimensions of a laptop with a Pentium II processor
`
`14· ·around 2001?
`
`15· · · · · · ·MR. RODKEY:· Objection, scope and relevance.
`
`16· · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· I couldn't say.
`
`17· ·BY MR. HENDIFAR:
`
`18· · · ·Q· · ·Do you have any knowledge about the typical
`
`19· ·battery life of laptops with Pentium II processors
`
`20· ·around 2001?
`
`21· · · · · · ·MR. RODKEY:· Objection, scope and relevance.
`
`22· · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· Again, I couldn't say.
`
`23· ·BY MR. HENDIFAR:
`
`24· · · ·Q· · ·Can you please explain in your view what
`
`25· ·distinguishes a laptop from a desktop computer?
`
`Page 2062-Page 13
`Neonode Exhibit 2062
`Google v. Neonode, IPR2021-01041
`
`
`
`·1· · · ·A· · ·That's not an analysis I spent any time
`
`·2· ·performing as part of this case.· I can speak just in
`
`·3· ·very general terms that I think probably most people
`
`·4· ·could appreciate.
`
`·5· · · · · · ·A laptop is a generally smaller form factor
`
`·6· ·than a desktop hardware machine, and is more portable,
`
`·7· ·can be handheld, taken from one person's work surface
`
`·8· ·to another more easily, that kind of thing.
`
`·9· · · ·Q· · ·So is it essentially a relative comparison?
`
`10· · · · · · ·MR. RODKEY:· Objection, form.
`
`11· · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· You asked me to compare a
`
`12· ·desktop and a laptop, so I'm not sure what you mean by
`
`13· ·a relative comparison.
`
`14· ·BY MR. HENDIFAR:
`
`15· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.· So let me rephrase my question.
`
`16· · · · · · ·Looking at the device, how would you know if
`
`17· ·it's a desktop or a laptop?
`
`18· · · ·A· · ·I'm not sure how to answer that in such
`
`19· ·broad and unqualified terms.· It would depend on the
`
`20· ·specific device, how it's situated in space, whether
`
`21· ·it's visible or obscured, how it's positioned perhaps
`
`22· ·on a desk or under a desk, I mean, there's just many
`
`23· ·different things that might lead one to conclude a
`
`24· ·particular machine is one or the other.
`
`25· · · ·Q· · ·Of the many different things, can you name
`
`Page 2062-Page 14
`Neonode Exhibit 2062
`Google v. Neonode, IPR2021-01041
`
`
`
`·1· ·three characteristics as to what would lead you to
`
`·2· ·conclude that a device is a laptop or a desktop?
`
`·3· · · · · · ·MR. RODKEY:· Objection, relevance, scope.
`
`·4· · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· Well, as I said in an earlier
`
`·5· ·answer, generally speaking, a laptop is going to have
`
`·6· ·probably a lighter weight than a desktop machine, and
`
`·7· ·probably a smaller form factor.· Often, but not
`
`·8· ·always, laptop-type devices have a screen that folds
`
`·9· ·over their keyboard.· Those would generally be things
`
`10· ·one might expect.
`
`11· ·BY MR. HENDIFAR:
`
`12· · · ·Q· · ·Thank you.
`
`13· · · · · · ·Now you mentioned that a laptop is a lighter
`
`14· ·weight than a desktop.
`
`15· · · · · · ·Is there a weight at which the device
`
`16· ·transforms from being a laptop to a desktop?
`
`17· · · ·A· · ·Again, that's a very broad and general
`
`18· ·observation that laptops generally are going to be
`
`19· ·lighter than desktop machines and generally smaller.
`
`20· ·But I have not conducted an analysis where we could,
`
`21· ·for example, plot out the weights of typical desktop
`
`22· ·machines and laptops and find that there's a
`
`23· ·distribution there where there's a separation.· That's
`
`24· ·just not something I've considered or an analysis I
`
`25· ·performed, so I couldn't tell you a weight.
`
`Page 2062-Page 15
`Neonode Exhibit 2062
`Google v. Neonode, IPR2021-01041
`
`
`
`·1· · · ·Q· · ·Would your answer be the same about the form
`
`·2· ·factor and what size of the form factor would
`
`·3· ·transform a device from being a laptop to a desktop?
`
`·4· · · ·A· · ·My answer would be that it's not an analysis
`
`·5· ·I performed.· I couldn't say.
`
`·6· · · ·Q· · ·Is it your view that all laptops are
`
`·7· ·portable handheld devices?
`
`·8· · · ·A· · ·That's not an opinion that I've offered in
`
`·9· ·this case.· What I have indicated is that the '879
`
`10· ·patent refers to laptops as a type of handheld
`
`11· ·computing system; if memory serves, that's in Column 1
`
`12· ·of the specification.
`
`13· · · · · · ·And since my job in this case was to look at
`
`14· ·the '879 patent and what it describes and what it
`
`15· ·considers, for the purposes of my analysis, and in
`
`16· ·keeping with the intentions of the '879 patent, I've
`
`17· ·considered laptops as a form of a handheld portable
`
`18· ·computer device.
`
`19· · · ·Q· · ·So my question is, have you considered any
`
`20· ·and all laptops regardless of size and weight to be a
`
`21· ·type of mobile handheld computer unit as that term is
`
`22· ·used in Column 1 of the '879 patent?
`
`23· · · ·A· · ·Well, the patent itself in Column 1 as it
`
`24· ·describes laptop computers as a handheld computer
`
`25· ·device does not make any distinctions about weight or
`
`Page 2062-Page 16
`Neonode Exhibit 2062
`Google v. Neonode, IPR2021-01041
`
`
`
`·1· ·size, so neither have I.
`
`·2· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.· May I please refer you to
`
`·3· ·Exhibit 1040.
`
`·4· · · · · · ·And for the court reporter, all these are
`
`·5· ·exhibits are already marked, nothing has to be marked.
`
`·6· · · · · · ·So if I may please refer you to
`
`·7· ·Exhibit 1040, Dr. Wobbrock.
`
`·8· · · ·A· · ·Can you tell me which that is?· I just have
`
`·9· ·my second declaration here and --
`
`10· · · ·Q· · ·That's fine, I'll put it in the chat box,
`
`11· ·that's not a problem.
`
`12· · · · · · ·MR. RODKEY:· Yeah, Counsel, please just put
`
`13· ·it in the chat so we're all sure we're looking at the
`
`14· ·same one.
`
`15· · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· It's the Hamburgen reference
`
`16· ·if I'm not mistaken.
`
`17· ·BY MR. HENDIFAR:
`
`18· · · ·Q· · ·May I refer you to PDF Page 3, native page
`
`19· ·No. 28.
`
`20· · · · · · ·MR. RODKEY:· Sorry, what page?
`
`21· · · · · · ·MR. HENDIFAR:· PDF Page 3, native page
`
`22· ·No. 28.
`
`23· · · · · · ·MR. RODKEY:· Thank you.
`
`24· · · · · · ·MR. HENDIFAR:· Of course.
`
`25· · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· One moment.· Yes, okay.
`
`Page 2062-Page 17
`Neonode Exhibit 2062
`Google v. Neonode, IPR2021-01041
`
`
`
`·1· ·BY MR. HENDIFAR:
`
`·2· · · ·Q· · ·In the first column, the second paragraph
`
`·3· ·starts with, "Our primary hardware goals"; do you see
`
`·4· ·that?
`
`·5· · · ·A· · ·Yes.
`
`·6· · · ·Q· · ·Okay.· Towards the second half of that
`
`·7· ·paragraph, there is a sentence that starts with,
`
`·8· ·"Developers can use the Linux operating system with
`
`·9· ·extensions for a flash file system, resource sharing,
`
`10· ·and power management"; do you see that?
`
`11· · · ·A· · ·Yes.
`
`12· · · ·Q· · ·What does "resource sharing" mean in this
`
`13· ·context?
`
`14· · · ·A· · ·I don't know.· That's not a point of focus
`
`15· ·that I applied and I haven't given that any time for
`
`16· ·my analysis.· So I would have to consider that
`
`17· ·question in depth to really have an answer for you
`
`18· ·there.
`
`19· · · ·Q· · ·May I please refer you to PDF Page 7,
`
`20· ·Page 32 of Exhibit 1040.
`
`21· · · ·A· · ·Okay.
`
`22· · · ·Q· · ·And specifically on top of the page there is
`
`23· ·a figure named Figure 3; do you see that?
`
`24· · · ·A· · ·Yes.
`
`25· · · ·Q· · ·And in this figure, there are three oval
`
`Page 2062-Page 18
`Neonode Exhibit 2062
`Google v. Neonode, IPR2021-01041
`
`
`
`·1· ·windows in green, the top one says MPEG Player, middle
`
`·2· ·one says X Windows, and the bottom one says
`
`·3· ·Qt Palmtop.
`
`·4· · · ·A· · ·Right.
`
`·5· · · ·Q· · ·What do these green ovals represent in this
`
`·6· ·figure?· Are they three different devices or what are
`
`·7· ·they?
`
`·8· · · · · · ·MR. RODKEY:· Objection, form.
`
`·9· · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· So, the reference in general
`
`10· ·here refers to a small credit card-sized mobile
`
`11· ·touchscreen device, and that device they call Itsy,
`
`12· ·I-t-s-y.
`
`13· · · · · · ·Figure 3 is, as it says, an example of
`
`14· ·sessions.· The green ovals you asked about are three
`
`15· ·different sessions that are running on the device and
`
`16· ·interacting with various components of the device.
`
`17· ·BY MR. HENDIFAR:
`
`18· · · ·Q· · ·So what does Qt Palmtop denote?
`
`19· · · ·A· · ·That's not something I recall having focused
`
`20· ·on in my analysis of this piece.· My focus was on the
`
`21· ·X Windows aspect of Itsy, which is an example of a
`
`22· ·small credit card-sized touchscreen device running
`
`23· ·X Windows as its operating system.
`
`24· · · · · · ·And so I'm not specifically sure what the
`
`25· ·Qt Palmtop component is -- is about there.
`
`Page 2062-Page 19
`Neonode Exhibit 2062
`Google v. Neonode, IPR2021-01041
`
`
`
`·1· · · ·Q· · ·Thank you.
`
`·2· · · · · · ·Do you know why light pens are no longer in
`
`·3· ·common use?
`
`·4· · · · · · ·MR. RODKEY:· Objection, scope, assumes facts
`
`·5· ·not in evidence, mischaracterizes.
`
`·6· · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· When you asked me earlier
`
`·7· ·about common use, I did not agree that they're not in
`
`·8· ·common use.· They are a longstanding input device to
`
`·9· ·computers and human computer interaction.· And so I'm
`
`10· ·not sure I would agree that they're not in common use.
`
`11· ·BY MR. HENDIFAR:
`
`12· · · ·Q· · ·Do you believe that light pens today are in
`
`13· ·common use?
`
`14· · · · · · ·MR. RODKEY:· Objection, scope.
`
`15· · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· Well, I'm not -- I haven't
`
`16· ·performed an analysis of what common use might or
`
`17· ·might not entail.· I'm uncertain as to the number of
`
`18· ·systems, whether in research or commercial use, that
`
`19· ·might use light pens.· There may well be many systems
`
`20· ·in industrial settings, for example, where light pens
`
`21· ·are applicable.· That's just not a topic I've
`
`22· ·investigated and it appears nowhere in my second
`
`23· ·declaration.
`
`24· · · · · · ·MR. HENDIFAR:· Okay.· No further questions.
`
`25· · · · · · ·MR. RODKEY:· Okay.· Why don't you give us
`
`Page 2062-Page 20
`Neonode Exhibit 2062
`Google v. Neonode, IPR2021-01041
`
`
`
`·1· ·five minutes.
`
`·2· · · · · · ·MR. HENDIFAR:· Okay.
`
`·3· · · · · · ·(Break taken.)
`
`·4· · · · · · ·MR. RODKEY:· We have no questions.· Thank
`
`·5· ·you for your time, Dr. Wobbrock.
`
`·6· · · · · · ·(Whereupon the deposition was concluded at
`
`·7· ·9:34 a.m.)
`
`·8
`
`·9· · · · · · ·(DECLARATION UNDER PENALTY OF PERJURY ON THE
`
`10· ·FOLLOWING PAGE HEREOF.)
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`Page 2062-Page 21
`Neonode Exhibit 2062
`Google v. Neonode, IPR2021-01041
`
`
`
`·1· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ***
`
`·2
`
`·3
`
`·4· · · · · · I, DR. JACOB O. WOBBROCK, do solemnly declare
`
`·5· ·under penalty of perjury that the foregoing is my
`
`·6· ·deposition under oath; that these are the questions
`
`·7· ·asked of me and my answers thereto; that I have read
`
`·8· ·same and have made the necessary corrections,
`
`·9· ·additions, or changes to my answers that I deem
`
`10· ·necessary.
`
`11· · · · · · It witness thereof, I hereby subscribe my
`
`12· ·name this day of ___________________________, 2022.
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19· · · · · · · · · · · · _________________________________
`
`20· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·WITNESS SIGNATURE
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`Page 2062-Page 22
`Neonode Exhibit 2062
`Google v. Neonode, IPR2021-01041
`
`
`
`·1· · · · · · · · · · · · ·CERTIFICATION
`
`·2· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·OF
`
`·3· · · · · · · · · CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTER
`
`·4
`
`·5
`
`·6· · · · · · I, the undersigned, a Certified Shorthand
`
`·7· ·Reporter of the State of California do hereby certify:
`
`·8· · · · · · That the foregoing proceedings were taken
`
`·9· ·before me at the time and place herein set forth; that
`
`10· ·any witnesses in the foregoing proceedings, prior to
`
`11· ·testifying, were placed under oath; that a verbatim
`
`12· ·record of the proceedings was made by me using machine
`
`13· ·shorthand which was thereafter transcribed under my
`
`14· ·direction; further, that the foregoing is an accurate
`
`15· ·transcription thereof.
`
`16· · · · · · I further certify that I am neither
`
`17· ·financially interested in the action nor a relative or
`
`18· ·employee of any attorney of any of the parties.
`
`19· · · · · · IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have this date
`
`20· ·subscribed my name.
`
`21· ·Dated:· September 8, 2022
`
`22
`
`24
`· · · · · · · · · · · · Jimmy Rodriguez, RPR
`25· · · · · · · · · · · Certificate Number 13464
`
`Page 2062-Page 23
`Neonode Exhibit 2062
`Google v. Neonode, IPR2021-01041
`
`
`
`·1· ·Reference No.: 8537920
`
`·2
`
`·3· ·Case:· GOOGLE V. NEONODE
`
`·4
`· · · · ·DECLARATION UNDER PENALTY OF PERJURY
`·5
`· · · · · I declare under penalty of perjury that
`·6· ·I have read the entire transcript of my Depo-
`· · ·sition taken in the captioned matter or the
`·7· ·same has been read to me, and the same is
`· · ·true and accurate, save and except for
`·8· ·changes and/or corrections, if any, as indi-
`· · ·cated by me on the DEPOSITION ERRATA SHEET
`·9· ·hereof, with the understanding that I offer
`· · ·these changes as if still under oath.
`10
`
`11· · · · · ·___________________________
`
`12· · · · · ·Dr. Jacob O. Wobbrock
`
`13
`
`14· · · · · · ·NOTARIZATION OF CHANGES
`
`15· · · · · · · · · (If Required)
`
`16
`
`17· ·Subscribed and sworn to on the ______ day of
`
`18
`
`19· ·__________________________, 20____ before me,
`
`20
`
`21· ·(Notary Sign)________________________________
`
`22
`
`23· ·(Print Name)· · · · · · · · · · Notary Public,
`
`24
`
`25· ·in and for the State of _____________________
`
`Page 2062-Page 24
`Neonode Exhibit 2062
`Google v. Neonode, IPR2021-01041
`
`
`
`·1· ·Reference No.: 8537920
`· · ·Case:· GOOGLE V. NEONODE
`·2
`
`·3· ·Page No._____Line No._____Change to:______________
`
`·4· ·__________________________________________________
`
`·5· ·Reason for change:________________________________
`
`·6· ·Page No._____Line No._____Change to:______________
`
`·7· ·__________________________________________________
`
`·8· ·Reason for change:________________________________
`
`·9· ·Page No._____Line No._____Change to:______________
`
`10· ·__________________________________________________
`
`11· ·Reason for change:________________________________
`
`12· ·Page No._____Line No._____Change to:______________
`
`13· ·__________________________________________________
`
`14· ·Reason for change:________________________________
`
`15· ·Page No._____Line No._____Change to:______________
`
`16· ·__________________________________________________
`
`17· ·Reason for change:________________________________
`
`18· ·Page No._____Line No._____Change to:______________
`
`19· ·__________________________________________________
`
`20· ·Reason for change:________________________________
`
`21· ·Page No._____Line No._____Change to:______________
`
`22· ·__________________________________________________
`
`23· ·Reason for change:________________________________
`
`24
`· · ·SIGNATURE:_______________________DATE:___________
`25· ·Dr. Jacob O. Wobbrock
`
`Page 2062-Page 25
`Neonode Exhibit 2062
`Google v. Neonode, IPR2021-01041
`
`
`
`·1· ·Reference No.: 8537920
`· · ·Case:· GOOGLE V. NEONODE
`·2
`
`·3· ·Page No._____Line No._____Change to:______________
`
`·4· ·__________________________________________________
`
`·5· ·Reason for change:________________________________
`
`·6· ·Page No._____Line No._____Change to:______________
`
`·7· ·__________________________________________________
`
`·8· ·Reason for change:________________________________
`
`·9· ·Page No._____Line No._____Change to:______________
`
`10· ·__________________________________________________
`
`11· ·Reason for change:________________________________
`
`12· ·Page No._____Line No._____Change to:______________
`
`13· ·__________________________________________________
`
`14· ·Reason for change:________________________________
`
`15· ·Page No._____Line No._____Change to:______________
`
`16· ·__________________________________________________
`
`17· ·Reason for change:________________________________
`
`18· ·Page No._____Line No._____Change to:______________
`
`19· ·__________________________________________________
`
`20· ·Reason for change:________________________________
`
`21· ·Page No._____Line No._____Change to:______________
`
`22· ·__________________________________________________
`
`23· ·Reason for change:________________________________
`
`24
`· · ·SIGNATURE:_______________________DATE:___________
`25· ·Dr. Jacob O. Wobbrock
`
`Page 2062-Page 26
`Neonode Exhibit 2062
`Google v. Neonode, IPR2021-01041
`
`
`
`DR. JACOB O. WOBBROCK
`GOOGLE V. NEONODE
`
`
`
`
`15:11,22,
`23
`
`1032
`
`5:8 9:25
`
`1040
`
`16:3,7
`17:20
`
`2001
`
`12:8,14,
`20
`
`21
`
`9:24 10:1
`
`agree
`19:7,10
`
`analysis
`13:1
`
`14:20,24
`15:4,15
`17:16
`
`18:20
`
`19:16
`
`appears
`19:22
`
`September 08, 2022
`Index: 1..Corporation
`
`bad
`
`8:12
`
`Barron's
`
`10:13,14
`
`battery
`12:19
`
`bins
`
`11:4
`
`10:16
`
`characteris
`
`tics
`
`14;
`
`chat
`
`16:10,13
`
`cite
`
`10:14
`
`Bluetooth
`
`cited
`
`9:16,19
`
`10:7
`
`12:1,7,25
`15:18,21,
`24 19:9
`
`computers
`7:3 8:24
`
`15:24
`
`19:9
`
`computing
`6:9,13
`8:15,19
`9:21
`15:11
`
`conclude
`
`13:23
`
`14:2
`
`conducted
`
`14:20
`
`confined
`
`6:11
`
`bottom
`
`18:2
`
`box
`
`16:10
`
`break
`
`20:3
`
`broad
`
`13:19
`14:17
`
`clarify
`6:15
`
`class
`
`8:19
`
`column
`
`15:11,22,
`23 17:2
`
`commercial
`
`19:18
`
`connect
`
`Neonode Exhibit 2062 Google v. Neonode, IPR2021-01041
`
`computer
`6:12 7:5,
`8,20 8:21
`9:4,11,
`12,14,18,
`23 11:2,
`13,24
`
`6:11
`
`assumes
`
`11:7 13:2
`
`15:9,13
`
`components
`18:16
`
`19:4
`
`
`
`
`category
`7:17
`
`caught
`5:20
`
`caution
`
`4:19
`
`Z ESQUIRE
`
`800.211.DEPO (3376)
`EsquireSolutions.com
`
`9:23
`
`connected
`
`9:14
`
`connection
`
`9:16
`
`connects
`
`9:11
`
`considered
`
`7:17 9:2
`
`14:24
`
`15:17,19
`
`considers
`
`15:15
`
`context
`
`6:22
`
`17:13
`
`conversatio
`ns
`
`10:18
`
`Corporation
`Page 2062-Page 27
`
`28
`
`3
`
`32
`
`16:19, 22
`
`applicable
`19:21
`
`broadly
`7:16
`
`common
`
`8:13
`
`applied
`17:15
`
`architectur
`
`16:18,21
`17:23
`
`18:13
`
`17:20
`
`e
`
`11:25
`
`area
`
`11:25
`
`aspect
`18:21
`
`cable
`
`9:18
`
`call
`
`18:11
`
`card-sized
`
`18:10,22
`
`assertion
`
`case
`
`19:3,7,8,
`10,13,16
`
`commonly
`8:24
`
`compare
`13:11
`
`comparison
`13:9,13
`
`component
`18:25
`
`Page 2062-Page 27
`Neonode Exhibit 2062
`Google v. Neonode, IPR2021-01041
`
`
`
`September 08, 2022
`Index: counsel..foundational
`
`10,11,13,
`14,23
`11:6
`
`engineering
`12:1
`
`facts
`
`19:4
`
`entail
`
`familiar
`
`dimensions
`
`19:17
`
`DR. JACOB O. WOBBROCK
`GOOGLE V. NEONODE
`
`11:13
`
`17:17
`
`counsel
`
`describes
`
`4:16,21
`10:10,18
`16:12
`
`15:14,24
`
`describing
`11:2
`
`court
`
`16:4
`
`created
`
`11:13
`
`credit
`
`18:10,22
`
`current
`
`8:16
`
`date
`
`6:14
`
`declaration
`
`designs
`9:22
`
`desk
`
`13:22
`
`desktop
`6:6,12
`8:23
`
`10:9,23,
`24 11:3
`
`12:25
`
`13:6,12,
`17 14:2,
`6,14,16,
`19,21
`15:3
`
`detection
`
`12:13
`
`disagree
`5:11
`
`disagreemen
`ts
`
`5:16 6:1
`
`disclose
`
`4:20
`
`10:17
`
`discussions
`
`4:21
`
`distinction
`s
`
`15:25
`
`distinguish
`es
`
`12:25
`
`erroneous
`
`6:10
`
`essentially
`13:9
`
`evidence
`
`10:5 19:5
`
`exhibit
`
`4:15 5:2,
`8,9 9:25
`16:3,7
`17:20
`
`7:2 10:6,
`11 11:8,
`11,16,21
`
`familiarity
`11:17
`
`figure
`17:23,25
`18:6,13
`
`file
`
`17:9
`
`files
`
`11:4
`
`exhibits
`
`find
`
`16:5
`
`14:22
`
`expect
`14:10
`
`expert
`7:7
`
`finding
`11:1
`
`fine
`
`16:10
`
`Neonode Exhibit 2062 Google v. Neonode, IPR2021-01041
`
`13:16,20
`14:2,15
`15:3,18,
`25 18:11,
`15,16,22
`19:8
`
`4:14,25
`5:6,17
`6:2,5,22,
`25 9:25
`
`10:15
`
`11:1 16:9
`
`19:23
`
`9:11
`
`determine
`
`5:15,25
`
`Developers
`17:8
`
`definition
`
`device
`
`10:9
`
`definitions
`
`7:2,6,18
`8:21 9:20
`
`distributio
`n
`
`14:23
`
`doubt
`
`9:14
`
`expertise
`11:23
`
`explain
`5:11
`
`12:24
`
`E
`
`explanation
`6:17 8:9
`
`earlier
`
`14:4 19:6
`
`expressed
`5:12
`
`flash
`
`17:9
`
`focus
`
`17:14
`
`18:20
`
`focused
`
`18:19
`
`folders
`
`11:4
`
`10:23
`
`11:7
`
`denote
`
`18:18
`
`depend
`13:19
`
`depends
`9:7
`
`deposition
`4:13
`
`depth
`
`easily
`13:8
`
`education
`
`12:4
`
`emitted
`
`8:3
`
`encountered
`
`7:6,9
`12:2
`
`devices
`
`7:16 8:2,
Accessing this document will incur an additional charge of $.
After purchase, you can access this document again without charge.
Accept $ Charge
Still Working On It
This document is taking longer than usual to download. This can happen if we need to contact the court directly to obtain the document and their servers are running slowly.
Give it another minute or two to complete, and then try the refresh button.
A few More Minutes ... Still Working
It can take up to 5 minutes for us to download a document if the court servers are running slowly.
Thank you for your continued patience.
This document could not be displayed.
We could not find this document within its docket. Please go back to the docket page and check the link. If that does not work, go back to the docket and refresh it to pull the newest information.
Your account does not support viewing this document.
You need a Paid Account to view this document. Click here to change your account type.
Your account does not support viewing this document.
Set your membership
status to view this document.
With a Docket Alarm membership, you'll
get a whole lot more, including:
- Up-to-date information for this case.
- Email alerts whenever there is an update.
- Full text search for other cases.
- Get email alerts whenever a new case matches your search.
One Moment Please
The filing “” is large (MB) and is being downloaded.
Please refresh this page in a few minutes to see if the filing has been downloaded. The filing will also be emailed to you when the download completes.
Your document is on its way!
If you do not receive the document in five minutes, contact support at support@docketalarm.com.
Sealed Document
We are unable to display this document, it may be under a court ordered seal.
If you have proper credentials to access the file, you may proceed directly to the court's system using your government issued username and password.
Access Government Site
