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`1 UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
` ____________________________________________
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` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`4 ____________________________________________
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`2 3
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`5 6
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` SAMSUNG ELECTRONICS CO. LTD.,
`7 SAMSUNG ELECTRONICS AMERICA, INC.,
` AND APPLE, INC.
`
`8 9
`
` Petitioners
`10 v.
`11 NEONODE SMARTPHONE, LLC
`12 Patent Owner
`13
`14 Case IPR2021-00145
`15 U.S. Patent No. 8,812,993
`16
`17
`18
`19 _____________________________________________
`20 ORAL AND VIDEOCONFERENCE DEPOSITION
`21 ULF MARTENSSON
`22 December 3, 2021
`_____________________________________________
`23
`24
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`Ulf Martensson
`Discovery Resource 713-223-3300
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`GOOGLE EXHIBIT 1047
`GOOGLE v. NEONODE
`IPR2021-01041
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`1 UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
` ____________________________________________
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` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`4 ____________________________________________
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`2 3
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`5 6
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` SAMSUNG ELECTRONICS CO. LTD.,
`7 SAMSUNG ELECTRONICS AMERICA, INC.,
` AND APPLE, INC.
`
`8 9
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` Petitioners
`10 v.
`11 NEONODE SMARTPHONE, LLC
`12 Patent Owner
`13
`14 Case IPR2021-00145
`15 U.S. Patent No. 8,812,993
`16
`17
`18
`19 _____________________________________________
`20 ORAL AND VIDEOCONFERENCE DEPOSITION
`21 ULF MARTENSSON
`22 December 3, 2021
`_____________________________________________
`23
`24
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`Ulf Martensson
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` ORAL AND VIDEOCONFERENCE DEPOSITION OF
`3 ULF MARTENSSON, produced as a witness at the instance
`4 of the Petitioners, and duly sworn, was taken in the
`5 above-styled and numbered cause on December 3, 2021,
`6 from 9:00 a.m. to 9:49 a.m., before Mia Hoang,
`7 Certified Shorthand Reporter in and for the State of
`8 Texas, reported by computerized stenotype machine via
`9 Zoom, pursuant to the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure
`10 and the provisions stated on the record or attached
`11 hereto.
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`1 A P P E A R A N C E S
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`FOR THE PETITIONERS:
`4 Mr. Zachary Loney
` DLA Piper
`5 303 Colorado Street, Suite 3000
` Austin, Texas 78701
`6 Telephone: (512) 457-7203
` E-mail: zachary.loney@dlapiper.com
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`FOR THE PATENT OWNER:
`9
` Mr. Philip Graves
`10 HAGENS, BERMAN, SOBOL, SHAPIRO, LLP
` 301 N. Lake Avenue, Suite 920
`11 Pasadena, CA 91101
` Telephone: (213) 330-7147
`12 E-mail: philipg@hbsslaw.com
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`1 I N D E X
`2 PAGE
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`Appearances ...................................... 3
`5 ULF MARTENSSON
`6 Examination by Mr. Loney .................... 5
`7 Signature and Changes ............................ 33
`8 Reporter's Certificate ........................... 35
`9
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`12
`13 E X H I B I T S
`14
`15 NO. DESCRIPTION PAGE
`16 Exhibit 1 Updated Notice of Deposition 8
`17 Exhibit 2 Declaration 9
`18 Exhibit 3 Excel Spreadsheet 17
`19
`20 ***********
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`1 THE REPORTER: Sir, could you raise your
`2 right hand to be sworn?
`3 (Witness sworn)
`4 THE REPORTER: Thank you. You may
`5 proceed.
`6 ULF MARTENSSON,
`7 having been first duly sworn, testified as follows:
`8 EXAMINATION
`9 BY MR. LONEY:
`10 Q. Thank you for your time today,
`11 Mr. Martensson. Could you please state your full
`12 name?
`13 A. My name is Ulf, U-L-F. And then it's
`14 Sigvalrd, which is not that easy to pronounce. And
`15 then it's Martensson, Martensson.
`16 Q. And where are you currently located,
`17 Mr. Martensson?
`18 A. I'm currently located in Stockholm.
`19 Q. Okay. And are you comfortable proceeding
`20 with the deposition today in English?
`21 A. Yes, sure. No problem.
`22 Q. All right. If that changes at any point,
`23 you'll let me know, right?
`24 A. Right.
`25 Q. Okay.
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`1 MR. GRAVES: It -- it -- it's. I'm
`2 sorry. Let me -- excuse me. I -- my connection seems
`3 to be a little bit buggy this morning. I -- I didn't
`4 catch any of Mr. Martensson's answer. And I -- I
`5 assume the court reporter, as with Mr. Shain --
`6 THE REPORTER: Do you want to go off the
`7 record?
`8 MR. GRAVES: Yes, yes.
`9 (Recess taken, 9:01 a.m. to 9:07 a.m.)
`10 Q. (BY MR. LONEY) All right. Welcome back,
`11 Mr. Martensson.
`12 So just to -- to continue. You
`13 understand that you're under oath today, right?
`14 A. Yes, I do.
`15 Q. And you understand that the testimony you're
`16 going to give today is as important as if you were
`17 giving it in a courtroom?
`18 A. Yes, I do.
`19 Q. Okay. And you understand that you're
`20 required to tell the truth, the whole truth, and
`21 nothing but the truth, right?
`22 A. Yes, I do.
`23 Q. And you're prepared to do that?
`24 A. Yes. Okay.
`25 Q. Have you ever been deposed before,
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`1 Mr. Martensson?
`2 A. Yes, two times before in this -- this
`3 litigation.
`4 Q. All right. And what was the subject of -- of
`5 those depositions?
`6 A. The -- the -- it's the same subject as now.
`7 Q. Okay.
`8 A. It was ear -- earlier with -- with the other
`9 lawyers. In the --
`10 Q. And do you remember --
`11 A. -- same case. In the same time.
`12 Q. Okay. And so you understand that today I'll
`13 be asking you a series of questions, and that I'll
`14 request that you -- you answer those questions to the
`15 best of your ability?
`16 A. Yes, yes.
`17 Q. And if you don't ever -- if there's ever a
`18 question you don't understand, you'll let me know,
`19 right?
`20 A. Yes.
`21 Q. Okay. And you also understand that the court
`22 reporter is going to be transcribing my questions and
`23 your --
`24 A. Yes.
`25 Q. -- and your responses? Okay. And so
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`1 we'll --
`2 A. Yes.
`3 Q. -- have to respond verbally, right?
`4 A. Yes.
`5 Q. Okay. Now, is there any reason that you
`6 can't -- not provide truthful, accurate and complete
`7 testimony. Let's --
`8 A. I think you need to -- to --
`9 Q. Yeah.
`10 A. -- kill the speaker on your -- your PC.
`11 THE REPORTER: Let's go off the record
`12 for a second.
`13 MR. LONEY: Yeah. Thank you.
`14 (Recess taken, 9:08 a.m. to 9:13 a.m.)
`15 Q. (BY MR. LONEY) Welcome back, Mr. Martensson.
`16 Is there any reason that you cannot --
`17 not provide truthful, accurate and complete testimony
`18 today?
`19 A. No. No reason at all.
`20 Q. And if that changes at any time during this
`21 deposition, you'll let me know, right?
`22 A. Yes, definitely.
`23 (Exhibit 1 marked)
`24 Q. (BY MR. LONEY) All right. Mr. Martensson,
`25 I've put a document into the chat. It's titled
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`1 Exhibit 1, Updated Notice of Deposition --
`2 A. Yes.
`3 Q. -- you can just let me know when you have
`4 that open.
`5 A. Yes, I have it open on my -- my binder.
`6 Q. And have you seen this document before?
`7 A. Yes, I've seen it.
`8 Q. Okay. And are you prepared -- prepared today
`9 to testify regarding the statements made in your
`10 declaration in this proceeding?
`11 A. Yes. I am.
`12 (Exhibit 2 marked)
`13 Q. Okay. And I've also, I've -- I've put a
`14 second document in the chat labeled Exhibit 2. Let me
`15 know once you have that one open.
`16 A. Yes, it's open.
`17 Q. All right. Have you seen this document
`18 before?
`19 A. Yes, I have.
`20 Q. Is this the declaration that you submitted in
`21 this proceeding?
`22 A. Yes. It is.
`23 Q. Okay. And if we go to the last page, is that
`24 your signature on the last page?
`25 A. Yes, that's my signature.
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`1 Q. And is that your initials in the lower
`2 right-hand corner of the first and second page -- or
`3 the --
`4 A. Yes, it is.
`5 Q. -- second and third page? Excuse me.
`6 A. Yes, it is.
`7 Q. Okay. Now, looking at Paragraph 3 of your
`8 declaration, you are currently employed by Neonode,
`9 Incorporated, correct?
`10 A. Well, formally I'm employed by Neonode
`11 Technologies AB, which is the daughter company of
`12 Neonode, Inc. The reason for that is that I'm located
`13 in Sweden.
`14 Q. Okay. So is -- are the statements in
`15 Paragraph 3 of your declaration correct?
`16 A. Yes, I'm a representative of Neonode, Inc.,
`17 but I'm formally employed in Sweden by the daughter
`18 company which is hundred percent owned by Neonode.
`19 Q. Okay. So we'll take that piece by piece.
`20 But currently, you're employed by Neonode, Inc. as
`21 executive vice president of operations, correct?
`22 A. Yes, I am, but employed in Sweden by the
`23 daughter company.
`24 Q. Are you employed by both companies?
`25 A. No, just one company. Because as Swedish
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`1 citizens, I cannot be employed by an American company.
`2 Q. So may -- this may feel pedantic, but are you
`3 employed -- are you currently employed by Neonode,
`4 Inc. or the -- a different Swedish entity?
`5 A. I'm employed by the Swedish entity. The --
`6 at the -- the -- the company office of Neonode, Inc.
`7 which is also the Swedish address that we are.
`8 Q. So you are -- you are technically not an
`9 employee of Neonode, Inc.?
`10 A. No, not formal employee because as I said,
`11 I'm a Sweden citizen. I cannot be employed in -- in a
`12 US company. I need to be employed in the Swedish.
`13 And all management is employed in the Swedish company,
`14 in -- in Neonode.
`15 Q. Okay. So if we look at Paragraph 3, it says
`16 that you were a director of manufacturing from
`17 September 2006 through December 2008. Do you see
`18 that?
`19 A. Yeah. And that was in the former company.
`20 Q. And which company was that?
`21 A. Because at that time, the company was Neonode
`22 AB. And that company was bankrupt in 2008.
`23 Q. So you served as the director of
`24 manufacturing for Neonode AB from --
`25 A. Yes.
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`1 Q. -- September 2006 through December --
`2 A. Yes.
`3 Q. -- 2008? Okay.
`4 A. That's correct.
`5 Q. And currently you serve -- well, from
`6 September 2012 to the present, you served as the
`7 executive vice president of operations for Neonode
`8 Technologies AB?
`9 A. And also Neonode, Inc. in this case because
`10 Inc. is -- is what you can call a shell company and
`11 the -- the basic all -- all employees are in Neonode
`12 AB in this case.
`13 Q. Okay.
`14 A. Neonode Technologies AB, sorry.
`15 Q. Okay. And what do -- what do you mean when
`16 you said that Neonode, Inc. is a shell company?
`17 A. No, it's -- that is the -- the American
`18 company that is listed on NASDAQ. But all management
`19 is -- is employed -- employed in Sweden. So that --
`20 from that point of view, all executive -- or the
`21 executive office is also here in Sweden at Karlavägen.
`22 Q. And you also stated that your job functions
`23 include being the company's custodian of record; is
`24 that right?
`25 A. Yeah, that means that I'm -- I'm the one
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`1 that -- that -- because there have also been the IT
`2 manager and set up the structure for IT, which means
`3 that I also have control over all our documentation in
`4 the company.
`5 Q. How long have -- has your responsibilities
`6 included the role of custodian of records?
`7 A. Well, it has been from -- from -- I joined --
`8 when I joined in 2012 because then I also set up the
`9 IT structure and set up also the -- the -- the -- the
`10 structure for documentation and everything.
`11 Q. Okay. And when you say you -- you -- you
`12 serve as the company's custodian of record, when you
`13 use the word company, you're referring to Neonode
`14 Technologies AB?
`15 A. In this case, it's Neonode, Inc. because we
`16 have all documentations stored on servers here in
`17 Sweden.
`18 Q. But you're not actually an employee of
`19 Neonode, Inc.?
`20 A. No.
`21 Q. Okay. And then in Paragraph 4, you have a
`22 list of exhibits you attached to your declaration,
`23 correct?
`24 A. Yeah.
`25 Q. All right. And it's your understanding that
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`1 these -- these exhibits, these documents are accurate
`2 and reliable?
`3 A. Yes, that's my understanding.
`4 Q. And when they were created by Neonode,
`5 they -- they sought to capture complete and correct
`6 information?
`7 A. So far as I know because most of these
`8 documents are created in the old company that went
`9 into bankrupt -- bankruptcy in 2008. So what I've
`10 been doing is really to search for documentation that
`11 we can find from that.
`12 Q. So moving on to -- to Paragraph 5. These are
`13 the same exhibits, A through F, that you mentioned in
`14 Paragraph 4?
`15 A. Yes.
`16 Q. Did you create any of these exhibits
`17 yourself?
`18 A. No.
`19 Q. Okay. Were you employed by Neonode when any
`20 of these exhibits were created?
`21 A. I think most of -- yes, I think the -- th3
`22 spreadsheet because that covers the years 2007, 2008.
`23 Then I was the employee, but I was -- the -- the
`24 documents before September 2006, then I was not the
`25 employee of Neonode.
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`1 Q. So just so we're clear. Exhibit F was likely
`2 created while you were an employee at Neonode?
`3 A. Yes, that's correct.
`4 Q. And Exhibits A, B, C, D and E were likely
`5 created before you were an employee of Neonode?
`6 A. Yes, that's correct.
`7 Q. And you didn't -- sorry. Asking this again,
`8 but you didn't help create any of these documents?
`9 A. No.
`10 Q. Do you know who created any of Exhibits A, B,
`11 C, D or E?
`12 A. I don't know for sure who does -- who did it,
`13 but it was created by the management at that time, and
`14 basic I would say, it was created by -- by the
`15 founders, Mr. Goertz and Mr. Ericsson. Thomas
`16 Ericsson and Magnus Goertz.
`17 Q. And --
`18 A. They -- at least they -- no, of course not
`19 because I was not present in the company at that time.
`20 Q. Okay. And then for Exhibit F, do you know
`21 who created that Excel spreadsheet?
`22 A. That is -- that I found in the -- in the
`23 filings cabinet that we had and that that -- it's
`24 probably created by our CFO at that time.
`25 Q. But again, you --
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`1 A. But I don't know for sure -- I don't know for
`2 sure either.
`3 Q. Thank you.
`4 And again, going back to the companies.
`5 In -- in Paragraph 5, you say that these records were
`6 produced by Neonode officers and employees. Which
`7 Neonode entity are we talking about?
`8 A. Well, it's -- as I said before, the -- the
`9 company was -- Neonode Inc. was formally founded in, I
`10 think, 2006, 2007, something like that. And that
`11 was -- was really because their work was a demand from
`12 the investors at that time to -- to -- to have an
`13 American company listed on NASDAQ. It was what you
`14 call a backward -- backdoor registration on NASDAQ by
`15 a company called S -- American Company called SBE.
`16 And up to that from -- up to that, the
`17 company was Neonode AB and a number of other companies
`18 during that time. And then Neonode AB was -- was a
`19 daughter company then to Neonode, Inc. And that means
`20 that the management and all of those -- before
`21 Neonode, Inc. was founded, then of course it was
`22 Neonode AB and -- and the management of Neonode AB.
`23 And then after that, it was the management of Neonode,
`24 Inc. basically working from -- from the platform of --
`25 of Sweden in Neonode AB.
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`1 Q. And so Exhibits A, B, C, D and E were created
`2 before Neonode, Inc. existed; is that right?
`3 A. Yes, if I remember correctly because they
`4 were -- they were created up to 2006. And that was
`5 before Neonode Inc. was -- was -- was created.
`6 Q. And again, just making sure I understand the
`7 companies. When it says that they were intended to be
`8 relied upon by Neonode and third parties, which
`9 Neonode entity are we talking about that would have
`10 used these documents?
`11 A. Up to 2006 before -- before Neonode was then
`12 incorporated in Neonode, Inc., it would have been
`13 Neonode AB which was the Swedish company.
`14 Q. And in Paragraph 6, you -- you -- you mention
`15 that you've actually reviewed Exhibit F yourself,
`16 correct?
`17 A. Yes.
`18 (Exhibit 3 marked)
`19 Q. So if you'll take a look at the chat, I'm
`20 going to drop in a third document. You can let me
`21 know when you...
`22 MR. GRAVES: So, Zach, I can't see the
`23 chat on my phone. You'll have to tell me which
`24 document that is.
`25 MR. LONEY: So for the record, I've put
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`1 Exhibit F from -- well, what has been referenced as
`2 Exhibit F in Mr. Martensson's declaration. I believe
`3 it has a different --
`4 THE WITNESS: Yeah, it's a --
`5 MR. LONEY: -- exhibit number from the
`6 IPR.
`7 THE WITNESS: It's the Excel spreadsheet
`8 of -- of the sales.
`9 Q. (BY MR. LONEY) Thank you, sir.
`10 MR. GRAVES: Right. So this is -- Zach,
`11 this is Exhibit 2026 as marked in the IPR?
`12 MR. LONEY: I believe so --
`13 THE WITNESS: That's correct.
`14 MR. LONEY: -- yeah.
`15 THE WITNESS: That's correct.
`16 MR. GRAVES: All right.
`17 Q. (BY MR. LONEY) And so just so we're --
`18 we're -- we're all on the same page, Mr. Martensson.
`19 This is the same Exhibit F that you mention in your
`20 declaration?
`21 A. Yes, that's correct.
`22 Q. And I just -- starting on the first page, I'd
`23 just like to go through the columns and try to
`24 understand what the information we're looking at is.
`25 Okay?
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`1 A. Yes.
`2 Q. So that --
`3 A. And before we start, I would also say that I
`4 have relooked into this document again because this is
`5 the document that is covering the sales on Neonode
`6 between 2007 and 2008. And when you look more into
`7 detail in this, you can see that it's not only phones.
`8 So when you look at the -- the -- the --
`9 the -- the sum at the end that says that it's
`10 something like 2000 -- 26,000 or something like that
`11 of units that from this document of N2 phones. Let's
`12 see what it says. It says 26-991. That is the
`13 complete sell -- sale of the -- and when I looked more
`14 into this, it's the complete sale of -- of all
`15 components, not just the phones. So I want to make a
`16 correction in this, and the phone sold -- phones sold
`17 in this is 9,640.
`18 Q. And so parsing through that. In Paragraph 6
`19 of your declaration, you said the Excel spreadsheet
`20 document sales of 26,991 units of the Neonode N2
`21 phone, right?
`22 A. Yeah.
`23 Q. And you're correcting that number to now be
`24 9,640 units?
`25 A. That's correct.
`
`Ulf Martensson
`Discovery Resource 713-223-3300
`
`GOOGLE EXHIBIT 1047
`GOOGLE v. NEONODE
`IPR2021-01041
`
`Page 19 of 37
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`Discovery Resource
`713-223-3300
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`20
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`1 Q. Okay. Going back to -- to Exhibit F that
`2 we -- we introduced. The first column, I believe it's
`3 cut off. But does the first column of this table
`4 reference the customer country?
`5 A. Probably. I mean, I have not created this,
`6 but my -- yes, that should be the -- the -- the -- the
`7 country that the units have been sold in. So that's
`8 the first column. And so that my -- that is my
`9 interpretation of this also.
`10 Q. And these records seem to be divided or
`11 sorted by country, right?
`12 A. Yes. And my -- my -- my guess is that -- and
`13 I -- that I don't know either, but my guess is,
`14 this -- this is extracted out -- out of the financial
`15 system that was used at that time in Neonode AB.
`16 Q. And the next column, the second column is
`17 customer name. What is that?
`18 A. In this case, it's either the -- and the --
`19 the -- those are names of the persons that have bought
`20 phones or -- or parts in this case which is also part
`21 of this.
`22 Q. And what does the column Customer Company
`23 Name refer to?
`24 A. My interpretation of that is that that is
`25 the -- the -- the company that the people have been
`
`Ulf Martensson
`Discovery Resource 713-223-3300
`
`GOOGLE EXHIBIT 1047
`GOOGLE v. NEONODE
`IPR2021-01041
`
`Page 20 of 37
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`Discovery Resource
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`21
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`1 working in.
`2 Q. And then skipping over several columns, what
`3 does the column Ship Date refer to?
`4 A. Well, my interpretation of that is that that
`5 is the date when the units were shipped to the
`6 customer.
`7 Q. Okay. And the next column, Order Status, I
`8 believe, what does that refer to?
`9 A. Yeah, that is -- order status is -- is
`10 referring to, I guess, that it's paid or not --
`11 Q. Okay.
`12 A. -- in this case.
`13 Q. And what is the column SKU Description show?
`14 A. SKU is in this case the -- the -- a
`15 description of what is sold. What -- what component
`16 is sold.
`17 Q. And so we see the very first row says, N2
`18 Black EU.
`19 Do you see that?
`20 A. Yeah.
`21 Q. What does that -- what does that --
`22 A. That N2 is the phone. The --
`23 Q. Okay.
`24 A. -- I mean, because this is only for sales for
`25 the N -- Neonode N2s. And then it's black, and
`
`Ulf Martensson
`Discovery Resource 713-223-3300
`
`GOOGLE EXHIBIT 1047
`GOOGLE v. NEONODE
`IPR2021-01041
`
`Page 21 of 37
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`Discovery Resource
`713-223-3300
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`22
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`1 it's -- the -- it's for EU in this case.
`2 Q. Okay. And so if we go about six lines,
`3 there's a -- there's a record that shows charger EU?
`4 A. Yeah.
`5 Q. Is that one of those records you mentioned
`6 earlier that is not for an N2 phone?
`7 A. Yes.
`8 Q. Okay.
`9 A. Those -- those have been taken out because
`10 those are spare parts and other things, and I missed
`11 that when -- when I sent in this document.
`12 Q. And then the next column is line quanti -- or
`13 line QTY. What does that refer to?
`14 A. That is probably how many units were -- were
`15 shipped on -- on that -- on that order line.
`16 Q. And then the last column, Line Gross. What
`17 does that refer to?
`18 A. Good question. Don't know really. But it
`19 seems like it is -- it is money.
`20 Q. But you don't know?
`21 A. No, because I've not created the document
`22 that was -- so this is just a document that I found
`23 when I tried to see what documentation do we have on
`24 sales that we can find on -- on Neonode servers.
`25 Q. Right.
`
`Ulf Martensson
`Discovery Resource 713-223-3300
`
`GOOGLE EXHIBIT 1047
`GOOGLE v. NEONODE
`IPR2021-01041
`
`Page 22 of 37
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`Discovery Resource
`713-223-3300
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`23
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`1 Going back to your -- your declaration
`2 real quick. In Paragraph 6, you state that Neonode
`3 sold 8,000 units to a network operator in India. Do
`4 you see that?
`5 A. Yep, that's correct.
`6 Q. Right. Are those 8,000 units captured in
`7 Exhibit F?
`8 A. No, it's not.
`9 Q. Okay. And then you also say that Neonode
`10 sold approximately 5,000 units of the N1 phone, right?
`11 A. Yeah --
`12 Q. And are --
`13 A. -- but that is -- that is an estimate because
`14 we're looking at -- I've tried to find all sales
`15 documentation from the N1 side. And we're looking
`16 into what has been described in different documents
`17 and so on. So this is -- it's a rough estimate of how
`18 many were sold of -- of all the preorders that -- that
`19 they have at that time.
`20 Q. And are those -- that estimate, is it
`21 documented in Exhibit F?
`22 A. No, it's not.
`23 Q. Okay. And so while we're at it. This last
`24 sentence, Neonode's records presently available
`25 document approximately sales of approximately 40,000
`
`Ulf Martensson
`Discovery Resource 713-223-3300
`
`GOOGLE EXHIBIT 1047
`GOOGLE v. NEONODE
`IPR2021-01041
`
`Page 23 of 37
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`Discovery Resource
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`24
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`1 N1 and N2 phones.
`2 That statement is no longer correct,
`3 right?
`4 A. That's correct because if you sum those, it
`5 will be less, of course.
`6 Q. Okay.
`7 A. Because the first -- the first -- the
`8 first is -- it was wrong.
`9 Q. I'd like to go back to Exhibit F real quick.
`10 Particularly if we can look at the -- the second major
`11 table for the -- the country of Belgium. Let me know
`12 once you kind of have that in front of you.
`13 A. Yeah, I have it in front of me. Yeah.
`14 Q. And in the second line of -- of that table
`15 for Belgium, we see an SKU description for N2 black
`16 EU, right?
`17 A. Yeah.
`18 Q. And that's for a Neonode N2 phone?
`19 A. Yes.
`20 Q. And then in the line Gross Column, there's a
`21 zero.
`22 A. Yeah.
`23 Q. What does that -- what does that zero refer
`24 to for that order?
`25 A. Don't know.
`
`Ulf Martensson
`Discovery Resource 713-223-3300
`
`GOOGLE EXHIBIT 1047
`GOOGLE v. NEONODE
`IPR2021-01041
`
`Page 24 of 37
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`Discovery Resource
`713-223-3300
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`25
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`1 Q. And so did that -- did that fact that the
`2 line Gross Column is zero have any impact on whether
`3 you included that record in your final total of units
`4 sold?
`5 A. No. Because in this case, I've looked into
`6 units shipped which is -- and then what -- what
`7 agreements has been between the customers and the
`8 Neonode. That I have no clue of.
`9 Q. So just to zero to be clear. Should your
`10 number -- when you're talking about the number of
`11 sales in Paragraph 6 shown in Exhibit F, should that
`12 be corrected to -- to describe the number of units
`13 shipped?
`14 A. That might be the case because I have no idea
`15 of units. I only know what -- this document shows
`16 what units have been shipped to different customers.
`17 And -- yeah, and that -- that is what -- what I know
`18 in this case.
`19 Q. And you have no idea whether any of these
`20 units were actually paid for?
`21 A. No, not really because I was not involved
`22 in -- in -- in that process.
`23 Q. But for your -- the purposes of your
`24 declaration, you've included the records for N2 phones
`25 that have a zero in the line --
`
`Ulf Martensson
`Discovery Resource 713-223-3300
`
`GOOGLE EXHIBIT 1047
`GOOGLE v. NEONODE
`IPR2021-01041
`
`Page 25 of 37
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`Discovery Resource
`713-223-3300
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`26
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`1 A. That's --
`2 Q. -- Gross Column?
`3 A. -- that's correct. That's correct. That
`4 correct.
`5 Q. Are you aware of how many records of
`6 shipments of the N2 phone have nonzero numbers in the
`7 line Gross Column?
`8 A. No.
`9 Q. Okay. Let me go -- let's go to Page 33 of
`10 Exhibit F, specifically to the table regarding Turkey,
`11 the country. Let me know when you're there.
`12 A. What number was it in the page?
`13 Q. Page 33.
`14 A. 33. Okay. 3-3. Okay. Yes, I'm there.
`15 Q. Okay. So if you see, there's a column -- in
`16 the SKU column, it has a line that says, N2 Dummy
`17 Unit.
`18 Do you see that?
`19 A. Yes.
`20 Q. What does N2 dummy unit describe?
`21 A. Yes. And these are excluded because the
`22 dummy unit, I know what it is, and those are for --
`23 for trade shows and other things. So those I have
`24 excluded in -- in that number.
`25 Q. You've already excluded those?
`
`Ulf Martensson
`Discovery Resource 713-223-3300
`
`GOOGLE EXHIBIT 1047
`GOOGLE v. NEONODE
`IPR2021-01041
`
`Page 26 of 37
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`Discovery Resource
`713-223-3300
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`27
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`1 A. Yes. Those are excluded, yes.
`2 Q. Do you have a description or a list of
`3 which -- which SKU descriptions you did include in
`4 your final totals?
`5 A. Yes, I've sent -- I sent that as an Excel
`6 sheet to -- to Phil.
`7 MR. GRAVES: So let me -- all right, all
`8 right. So I'll object on attorney-client privilege
`9 grounds and move to strike the answer. Instruct the
`10 witness not to answer. And caution the witness not to
`11 disclose the content of any communications either
`12 verbal or in, you know, written form with counsel.
`13 Q. (BY MR. LONEY) All right. Mr. Martensson,
`14 are -- are you going to -- to abide by your attorney's
`15 instructions?
`16 A. As always, I will do that.
`17 MR. LONEY: For the record, Counsel.
`18 Given Mr. Martensson's testimony, we would request
`19 that those updated numbers that he provided be
`20 produced, as well as his -- his rationale for how
`21 he -- he filtered and calculated them.
`22 MR. GRAVES: Well, given the fact that
`23 that was an unanticipatable disclosure of privileged
`24 communications to which we have objected, I think it
`25 unlikely that we will be producing those materials to
`
`Ulf Martensson
`Discovery Resource 713-223-3300
`
`GOOGLE EXHIBIT 1047
`GOOGLE v. NEONODE
`IPR2021-01041
`
`Page 27 of 37
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`Discovery Resource
`713-223-3300
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`28
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`1 you as they constitute privileged communications.
`2 MR. LONEY: We understand. Obviously,
`3 we disagree, and we -- we can talk about it more
`4 off-line, I think.
`5 MR. GRAVES: All right.
`6 Q. (BY MR. LONEY) Mr. Martensson, were you
`7 involved in the sales department at all during --
`8 from -- from your time at Neonode from 2006 to 2008?
`9 A. My responsibility at that time was to -- to
`10 set up the production of the N2 phones. And also, of
`11 course, my -- my role as responsible for supply was
`12 to -- to see that we -- we shipped to the cus -- to
`13 the customers and produced at the factory in Malaysia.
`14 But I was not involved in -- in the sales department.
`15 Q. I think you just mentioned that your factory
`16 was in Malaysia; is that right?
`17 A. That's correct.
`18 Q. Can we go to Page 12 through 13 of Exhibit F?
`19 Let me know when you're there.
`20 A. Page 12. Hang on. Let's go back to it.
`21 Yes.
`22 Q. And I believe most of the records in the
`23 Malaysia table have been removed from your final
`24 calculations based on your earlier statements, right?
`25 A. Yes, because those are spare parts.
`
`Ulf Mar
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