Michael Steer, Ph.D. - April 28, 2022
`
` UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
` TCL INDUSTRIES HOLDINGS CO. AND HISENSE CO., LTD.
`
` Petitioners
`
` V.
`
` PARKERVISION, INC.
`
` Patent Owner
`
` Case No. IPR2021-00990
`
` Patent No. 7,110,444
`
` REMOTE VIDEOCONFERENCE DEPOSITION
`
` of
`
` MICHAEL STEER, Ph.D.
`
` (Taken by Petitioners)
`
` Thursday, April 28th, 2022
`
` 10:01 a.m.
`
` Reported by: Leslie Christian Lentkowski
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`303-988-8470
`
`Page 1
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7 8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`TCL & Hisense
`Ex. 1021
`Page 1
`
`
`
` UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
` TCL INDUSTRIES HOLDINGS CO. AND HISENSE CO., LTD.
`
` Petitioners
`
` V.
`
` PARKERVISION, INC.
`
` Patent Owner
`
` Case No. IPR2021-00990
`
` Patent No. 7,110,444
`
` REMOTE VIDEOCONFERENCE DEPOSITION
`
` of
`
` MICHAEL STEER, Ph.D.
`
` (Taken by Petitioners)
`
` Thursday, April 28th, 2022
`
` 10:01 a.m.
`
` Reported by: Leslie Christian Lentkowski
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`303-988-8470
`
`Page 1
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7 8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`TCL & Hisense
`Ex. 1021
`Page 1
`
`
`
`Michael Steer, Ph.D. - April 28, 2022
`
`APPEARANCES:
`On Behalf of the Petitioners:
` Edward J. Mayle, Esquire (via videoconference)
` Kilpatrick Townsend & Stockton
` 1400 Wewatta Street
` Suite 600
` Denver, Colorado 80202
` 303-607-3368
` tmayle@kilpatricktownsend.com
`On Behalf of the Patent Owner:
` Stephanie Mandir, Esquire (via videoconference)
` Daignault Iyer
` 8618 Westwood Center Drive
` Suite 900
` Vienna, Virginia 22182
` 202-270-5666
` smandir@daignaultiyer.com
`
`1
`2
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`7
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`303-988-8470
`
`Page 2
`
`TCL & Hisense
`Ex. 1021
`Page 2
`
`
`
`Michael Steer, Ph.D. - April 28, 2022
`
` E X A M I N A T I O N S
`
` Witness Page
`
` Michael Steer, Ph.D.
`
` By Mr. Mayle 4
`
` E X H I B I T S
`
` Exhibit Page
`
` Exhibit 1 Declaration of Michael Steer, Ph.D. 53
`
` Exhibit 2 Transcript of Michael Steer, Ph.D. 53
`
` Exhibit 3 Final Written Decision 53
`
` Exhibit 4 Declaration of Dr. Michael Steer 53
`
` Exhibit 5 United States Patent '444 53
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5 6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`303-988-8470
`
`Page 3
`
`TCL & Hisense
`Ex. 1021
`Page 3
`
`
`
`Michael Steer, Ph.D. - April 28, 2022
`
` P R O C E E D I N G S
`
` THE REPORTER: Participating attorneys
`
`recognize that all parties, including the witness and
`
`court reporter, are participating remotely. In lieu of
`
`an oath administered in person, the witness will
`
`verbally declare that their testimony in this
`
`deposition is under penalty of perjury and will be the
`
`truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.
`
` Dr. Steer, do you agree?
`
` THE WITNESS: Yes, I do.
`
` THE REPORTER: Counsel stipulate that
`
`all objections to the remote participation are waived.
`
`Please state your name and indicate your agreement on
`
`the record.
`
` MR. MAYLE: Counsel for petitioner --
`
`Ted Mayle -- and we agree to those stipulations.
`
` MS. MANDIR: This is Stephanie Mandir
`
`from the law firm of Daignault Iyer representing
`
`ParkerVision and the witness, Dr. Michael Steer, and we
`
`agree.
`
`BY MR. MAYLE:
`
` Q. Good morning, Dr. Steer.
`
` A. Good morning, Mr. Mayle.
`
` Q. So we met yesterday in connection with
`
`another IPR involving the '835 patent, right?
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`303-988-8470
`
`Page 4
`
`TCL & Hisense
`Ex. 1021
`Page 4
`
`
`
`Michael Steer, Ph.D. - April 28, 2022
`
` A. Correct.
`
` Q. Today we're here about an IPR involving the
`
`'444 patent, right?
`
` A. Correct.
`
` Q. Can you just state your full name for the
`
`record.
`
` A. My full name is Michael Bernard Steer.
`
` Q. Are you at your home address right now?
`
` A. I'm at my home address.
`
` Q. And can you just tell us what city that is?
`
` A. 2421 Coley Forest Place -- that is
`
`C-o-l-e-y Forest Place -- Raleigh, North Carolina.
`
` Q. Is there anyone else that's physically
`
`present with you today?
`
` A. My wife is in the house currently. There
`
`is no one in the room with me.
`
` Q. Are you using any notes today?
`
` A. I am not. I do have a printout -- a
`
`printout of my declaration. Ms. Mandir sent that to me
`
`this morning, and I printed it off this morning.
`
` Q. Very well. I've already marked that as
`
`Deposition Exhibit 1.
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. You don't need to go to that now, but you
`
`can use your printout if you feel it's more efficient.
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`303-988-8470
`
`Page 5
`
`TCL & Hisense
`Ex. 1021
`Page 5
`
`
`
`Michael Steer, Ph.D. - April 28, 2022
`
` A. I think I need to answer in full. I don't
`
`have any other notes.
`
` Q. Okay. Do you have any applications open
`
`other than this deposition exhibit application on your
`
`computer or phone or anything?
`
` A. I don't have my phone. There's not much
`
`here. I have my download folder open. I have Exhibit
`
`Share open in Edge. I have Adobe Acrobat open and
`
`Zoom. That's it.
`
` Q. Okay. The rules of the Patent Trial and
`
`Appeal Board are that the witness is not supposed to
`
`talk to their counsel during the cross-examination. Do
`
`you understand that?
`
` A. Yes, I do.
`
` Q. Well, with the exception of if there's a
`
`privilege issue, you can talk to your counsel about
`
`that. Okay?
`
` Do you agree that you will not be in
`
`electronic communication with anyone during this
`
`cross-examination?
`
` A. Yes, I agree.
`
` Q. If you just look at the front cover of your
`
`printed declaration, do you see that it lists the
`
`patent number for the '444 patent on there?
`
` A. Yes, I agree. I see that.
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`303-988-8470
`
`Page 6
`
`TCL & Hisense
`Ex. 1021
`Page 6
`
`
`
`Michael Steer, Ph.D. - April 28, 2022
`
` Q. When we refer to the '444 patent, can we
`
`agree that we're talking about U.S. Patent Number
`
`7,110,444?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. As I stated, your declaration in this IPR
`
`is going to be Deposition Exhibit 1. If you could look
`
`back to your signature. I think it's on Page 147. Do
`
`you verify that that is indeed your signature?
`
` A. Yes. That is my signature.
`
` Q. And it says it was dated February 18th,
`
`2022?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. And you submitted this declaration under
`
`penalty of perjury, correct?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. And you realize that you are now testifying
`
`under oath in this deposition?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. Do you know of any reason that you can't
`
`give complete and truthful testimony today?
`
` A. There's no reason.
`
` Q. Is there any reason that you know of that
`
`your memory might be impaired today?
`
` A. No.
`
` Q. You're being compensated for ParkerVision
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`303-988-8470
`
`Page 7
`
`TCL & Hisense
`Ex. 1021
`Page 7
`
`
`
`Michael Steer, Ph.D. - April 28, 2022
`
`-- you're being compensated by ParkerVision for your
`
`testimony today, correct?
`
` A. Correct.
`
` Q. And was your rate 440 an hour? Is that
`
`your rate?
`
` A. Yes, it is.
`
` Q. And you're charging that for today's time
`
`as well?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. And did you charge that rate to
`
`ParkerVision for any preparation you've done for this
`
`deposition?
`
` A. Yes, I did.
`
` Q. About how much time did you spend preparing
`
`for today's deposition?
`
` A. I spent about 20 hours preparing for
`
`today's deposition.
`
` Q. When did you start preparing?
`
` A. I probably started preparing two weeks ago.
`
` Q. Did you prepare last night for today's
`
`deposition?
`
` A. I prepared late yesterday afternoon up
`
`until about 6:00.
`
` Q. In your preparations over the last couple
`
`of weeks of this deposition, did you have any telephone
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`303-988-8470
`
`Page 8
`
`TCL & Hisense
`Ex. 1021
`Page 8
`
`
`
`Michael Steer, Ph.D. - April 28, 2022
`
`calls or meetings with any other people?
`
` A. Concerning this deposition, I talked to
`
`counsel at Daignault Iyer.
`
` Q. Did you talk to anyone else concerning this
`
`deposition?
`
` A. No, I did not.
`
` Q. In your preparation yesterday, did that
`
`involve counsel as well?
`
` A. I did talk to counsel yesterday after
`
`yesterday's deposition. During my preparation, I don't
`
`think I talked to them about today's deposition
`
`yesterday.
`
` Q. So you've represented ParkerVision as an
`
`expert witness several times?
`
` A. Yes, several times.
`
` Q. There's this IPR, and there was the '444
`
`IPR filed by TCL and Hisense, right?
`
` A. Correct.
`
` Q. And you were ParkerVision's expert in an
`
`IPR also against a '444 filed by Intel, correct?
`
` A. Yes, I was.
`
` Q. You were ParkerVision's expert in the
`
`second Qualcomm case that took place in Florida,
`
`correct?
`
` A. That was to take place in Florida, yes.
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`303-988-8470
`
`Page 9
`
`TCL & Hisense
`Ex. 1021
`Page 9
`
`
`
`Michael Steer, Ph.D. - April 28, 2022
`
` Q. I don't mean "trial." I mean, there was a
`
`case in Florida that --
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. And you were ParkerVision's expert in an
`
`ITC case as well, correct?
`
` A. Yes, correct.
`
` Q. Are there any other matters besides those
`
`that we just talked about that you were ParkerVision's
`
`expert?
`
` A. An expert on behalf of ParkerVision?
`
` Q. Yes.
`
` A. I don't think so. Not to my knowledge.
`
` Q. And you were deposed in several of those
`
`matters, right?
`
` A. There was a case involving the law firm of
`
`Mintz, which was the ITC case. I was deposed once in
`
`that. I was deposed twice in relationship to the
`
`ParkerVision II case managed by McKool. And that's all
`
`I recall.
`
` Q. And when you were deposed there, were they
`
`deposing you on an expert report?
`
` A. Yes, they were.
`
` Q. Okay. And I think you said yesterday, but
`
`correct me if I'm wrong, you've not testified live in a
`
`court or other tribunal in connection with your work
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`Page 10
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`303-988-8470
`
`TCL & Hisense
`Ex. 1021
`Page 10
`
`
`
`Michael Steer, Ph.D. - April 28, 2022
`
`with ParkerVision, right?
`
` A. That's right.
`
` Q. Do you remember yesterday we talked about a
`
`book series entitled "Microwave and RF Design"?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. And you're the author of the book series
`
`"Microwave and RF Design," correct?
`
` A. Yes, correct.
`
` Q. That book series never mentions Jeff
`
`Parker, correct?
`
` A. No, it does not.
`
` Q. And that book series never mentions David
`
`Sorrells, right?
`
` A. That is correct.
`
` Q. And David Sorrells -- I don't know if he
`
`still does, but he worked at ParkerVision, and he was
`
`an inventor on many of their patents, correct?
`
` A. Correct.
`
` Q. Do you know if he's still at ParkerVision?
`
` MS. MANDIR: Objection, scope.
`
` THE WITNESS: I have no knowledge.
`
`BY MR. MAYLE:
`
` Q. David Sorrells is listed as an inventor on
`
`the '444 and '835 patents, correct?
`
` A. He's one of the inventors on those two
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`Page 11
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`303-988-8470
`
`TCL & Hisense
`Ex. 1021
`Page 11
`
`
`
`Michael Steer, Ph.D. - April 28, 2022
`
`patents.
`
` Q. And he's one of the inventors on the '551
`
`patent, right?
`
` A. Yes, he is.
`
` Q. The '551 patent is incorporated by
`
`reference into the '444 and the '835 patents, right?
`
` A. Correct.
`
` Q. Going back to the book series "Microwave
`
`and RF Design," those books never mentioned
`
`ParkerVision, correct?
`
` A. They do not.
`
` Q. And the book series does not mention energy
`
`sampling, correct?
`
` A. I don't recall. I probably don't. It
`
`probably doesn't.
`
` Q. And the book series never mentions energy
`
`transfer, correct?
`
` A. Well, there's a good chance it does simply
`
`because Microwave and RF Design -- you know, we deal
`
`with transmission lines a lot. So I cannot recall
`
`whether I actually use that precise term, but the
`
`concept of transferring energy would certainly be
`
`throughout.
`
` Q. You were deposed by Intel's lawyers in an
`
`IPR involving in the '444 patent, correct?
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`Page 12
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`303-988-8470
`
`TCL & Hisense
`Ex. 1021
`Page 12
`
`
`
`Michael Steer, Ph.D. - April 28, 2022
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. And when you were deposed, you testified
`
`under oath there, correct?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. And when you testified in that deposition,
`
`you told the truth, correct?
`
` A. As far as I know, I told the truth.
`
` Q. Please refresh your exhibit folder. I've
`
`uploaded Number 2. There's probably only going to be
`
`one question about this exhibit, so you might not need
`
`to download the whole thing.
`
` A. I have downloaded it.
`
` Q. Can you confirm that this Exhibit 2 is the
`
`transcript of your deposition in the Intel IPR and '444
`
`patent?
`
` A. It certainly does look like the transcript
`
`-- the exhibit. That is what's written on the first
`
`page, "Transcript of Michael Steer on July 28, 2021,"
`
`in a case involving Intel and ParkerVision. I don't
`
`see '444 written on here, and I don't -- so I can't
`
`actually assign that date to a particular patent.
`
` Q. You remember seeing this exhibit yesterday,
`
`correct?
`
` A. It would be very easy to find whether it's
`
`the '444 patent.
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`Page 13
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`303-988-8470
`
`TCL & Hisense
`Ex. 1021
`Page 13
`
`
`
`Michael Steer, Ph.D. - April 28, 2022
`
` I actually -- I did see a transcript
`
`yesterday. I'm not sure it was this one.
`
` Q. If you go to the second page of Exhibit 2
`
`under the cover page, do you see where it says
`
`IPR2020-01265?
`
` A. Yes, I see that.
`
` Q. I'll represent to you that that is the IPR
`
`filed by Intel against the '444 patent.
`
` A. Okay. I'll accept that.
`
` Q. Well, later today I'm going to introduce
`
`the final written decision from that case.
`
` A. Okay.
`
` Q. Yesterday you saw the final written
`
`decision from this IPR.
`
` A. I believe you presented it. I just -- my
`
`mind is a blank of yesterday.
`
` Q. Okay.
`
` A. Things were deleted at 4 p.m.
`
` Q. Fair enough. I'll direct your attention to
`
`Page 44.
`
` A. Of Exhibit 2?
`
` Q. Of Exhibit 2.
`
` A. That would be a page labeled 44?
`
` Q. Yes. On the top right, 44.
`
` A. Right.
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`Page 14
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`303-988-8470
`
`TCL & Hisense
`Ex. 1021
`Page 14
`
`
`
`Michael Steer, Ph.D. - April 28, 2022
`
` Q. At Page 44, Line 20, the question was, "The
`
`book series never mentions the phrase 'energy
`
`transfer.' Correct?" The answer is, "That is
`
`correct."
`
` Were you asked that question and did you
`
`provide that answer in your deposition in the Intel
`
`'444 patent IPR?
`
` A. That's what I said here, that I didn't
`
`mention the word -- the phrase "energy transfer."
`
` Q. You have never written an article that
`
`mentions the phrase "energy sampling," correct?
`
` A. I don't think so.
`
` Q. And you have never written an article that
`
`mentions the phrase "energy transfer," correct?
`
` A. I cannot be sure about that.
`
` Q. I'll direct your attention to Page 45 of
`
`Exhibit 2. You should be there already.
`
` A. Yes. I'm on Page 45.
`
` Q. If you look at Line 8, the question was,
`
`"Have you ever written an article that mentions energy
`
`transfer?" and the answer was, "I have not."
`
` Was that question asked and did you provide
`
`that answer in your deposition testimony?
`
` A. Yes, I did.
`
` Q. You are not aware of any ParkerVision
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`Page 15
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`303-988-8470
`
`TCL & Hisense
`Ex. 1021
`Page 15
`
`
`
`Michael Steer, Ph.D. - April 28, 2022
`
`product that was a commercial success, right?
`
` MS. MANDIR: Objection, scope.
`
` THE WITNESS: I am not aware of
`
`everything they have done. I am aware of a Wi-Fi
`
`router. I recall reading -- I think I was provided
`
`with a clipping from a trade magazine which reviewed a
`
`Wi-Fi product. Since it was in a trade magazine, I
`
`assume that it was a commercial product, but I would
`
`have no knowledge as to whether it was a successful
`
`product or not.
`
`BY MR. MAYLE:
`
` Q. So you submitted in your declaration in
`
`this IPR some opinions on secondary considerations,
`
`right?
`
` A. Yes, I did.
`
` Q. So you're not -- it's not your opinion that
`
`ParkerVision products were a commercial success,
`
`correct?
`
` MS. MANDIR: Objection, form, and
`
`scope.
`
` THE WITNESS: I need to refresh my
`
`memory.
`
`BY MR. MAYLE:
`
` Q. You can look at Page 94 of your
`
`declaration.
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`Page 16
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`303-988-8470
`
`TCL & Hisense
`Ex. 1021
`Page 16
`
`
`
`Michael Steer, Ph.D. - April 28, 2022
`
` A. Yes. I'm on Page 94. Here I have two
`
`sections. One is "Praise by others" where Qualcomm
`
`praised ParkerVision's energy -- transfer energy
`
`sampling system. There are comments that were
`
`extracted from e-mails that were made publicly
`
`available -- e-mails from the ParkerVision people. And
`
`then I have a section on "Copying and commercial
`
`success." But an answer to your question, in here I do
`
`not talk about ParkerVision products.
`
` Q. Thank you. You say on Page 95 of your
`
`declaration that Qualcomm and others began to use
`
`energy transfer systems set forth in Claims 2-4 of the
`
`'444 patent. Do you see that?
`
` A. So which page? 94, did you say?
`
` Q. Page 95.
`
` A. Page 95. I didn't print it out. Okay. I
`
`need to look at the exhibit. Not everything got
`
`printed out. So Exhibit 1, Page 95. I'm on Page 95.
`
`What was the question again, please?
`
` Q. On Page 95, you mention -- you state that
`
`Qualcomm and others began to use systems set forth in
`
`Claims 2-4 of the '444 patent. Do you see that?
`
` A. Yes, I see that.
`
` Q. Has ParkerVision sued Qualcomm for
`
`Claims 2-4 of the '444 patent?
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`Page 17
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`303-988-8470
`
`TCL & Hisense
`Ex. 1021
`Page 17
`
`
`
`Michael Steer, Ph.D. - April 28, 2022
`
` MS. MANDIR: Objection, scope.
`
` THE WITNESS: I do not recall whether
`
`the '444 patent has been involved. I simply don't
`
`recall.
`
`BY MR. MAYLE:
`
` Q. And you don't show in your declaration
`
`anywhere which product Qualcomm allegedly uses that
`
`infringes any of ParkerVision's patents, correct?
`
` MS. MANDIR: Objection, form.
`
` THE WITNESS: I believe I would be
`
`prevented to mention that because of protective orders.
`
`That's my understanding.
`
`BY MR. MAYLE:
`
` Q. Well, I'm not asking you why. I'm just
`
`asking you -- correct me if I'm wrong, there's nothing
`
`in your declaration that shows any product of Qualcomm
`
`that supposedly infringes any patent, correct?
`
` MS. MANDIR: Objection, form.
`
` THE WITNESS: Yes. My understanding
`
`is that I do not identify a particular Qualcomm product
`
`anywhere in the declaration.
`
`BY MR. MAYLE:
`
` Q. ParkerVision was not the first to invent
`
`the method of frequency down-conversion of a received
`
`electromagnetic signal, correct?
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`Page 18
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`303-988-8470
`
`TCL & Hisense
`Ex. 1021
`Page 18
`
`
`
`Michael Steer, Ph.D. - April 28, 2022
`
` MS. MANDIR: Objection, form.
`
` THE WITNESS: Down-conversion of a
`
`received electromagnetic signal was being done before
`
`the ParkerVision patents came about.
`
`BY MR. MAYLE:
`
` Q. I'm going to introduce another exhibit.
`
`This should be a breeze if I do it right -- no
`
`guarantee.
`
` Okay. Please refresh your folder.
`
` A. Yes. I see Exhibit 3.
`
` Q. Okay. Do you see that -- just to make sure
`
`we're looking at the same thing, Exhibit 3 is the final
`
`written decision from IPR2020-01265, correct?
`
` A. That is correct.
`
` Q. And that final written decision concerned
`
`the '444 patent, and it was based on a petition by
`
`Intel, correct?
`
` A. Correct.
`
` Q. Now, you were ParkerVision's expert in that
`
`IPR proceeding, correct?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. And you submitted a written declaration in
`
`that case, correct?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. And you were deposed in that case, correct?
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`Page 19
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`303-988-8470
`
`TCL & Hisense
`Ex. 1021
`Page 19
`
`
`
`Michael Steer, Ph.D. - April 28, 2022
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. Were you deposed only once?
`
` A. In respect to the '444 patent?
`
` Q. Yes.
`
` A. My recollection is that I was only deposed
`
`once in respect to the IPR.
`
` Q. I only found one transcript, so I was
`
`seeing if we missed one.
`
` If you look on Page 32, please. Let me
`
`know when you're there.
`
` A. Yes. 32 -- PDF 32 on the page and 32 on
`
`the exhibit. Two tables -- there are two tables on the
`
`page.
`
` Q. That's the page. We talked about this page
`
`in yesterday's deposition, right?
`
` A. Yes, I remember that.
`
` Q. So maybe we can move through this faster.
`
` You agree that the top table on Page 32 is
`
`directed to the term "storage element," and it stows
`
`ParkerVision's and Intel's competing proposed
`
`constructions of that term in the district court
`
`proceeding?
`
` A. Yes, I do.
`
` Q. Right. And you see the district court,
`
`which was the Western District of Texas, issued a final
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`Page 20
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`303-988-8470
`
`TCL & Hisense
`Ex. 1021
`Page 20
`
`
`
`Michael Steer, Ph.D. - April 28, 2022
`
`claim construction, which is in the last column on the
`
`table at the top of Page 32, right?
`
` A. That's correct.
`
` Q. Right. And you see that the district court
`
`-- the district court's final construction, among other
`
`things, included that phrase "of an energy transfer
`
`system," right?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. And you see that the district court's final
`
`construction did not include the phrase "for driving a
`
`low impedance load," right?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. Okay. The table at the bottom of Page 32
`
`shows the parties' competing constructions in the IPR
`
`proceeding for the '444 patent, right?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. And the bottom table shows that
`
`ParkerVision proposed -- ParkerVision's proposal in the
`
`IPR mirrored the district court's final construction,
`
`correct?
`
` A. Correct.
`
` Q. And Intel's construction was different,
`
`among other reasons, for not including the phrase "of
`
`an energy transfer system," right?
`
` A. That's right.
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`Page 21
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`303-988-8470
`
`TCL & Hisense
`Ex. 1021
`Page 21
`
`
`
`Michael Steer, Ph.D. - April 28, 2022
`
` Q. Let's go to Page 41, please.
`
` A. Yes. I'm on Page 41.
`
` Q. And the first full paragraph above the
`
`heading "B. Other Claim Terms" states that, "Based on
`
`our review of the complete record before us, including
`
`the intrinsic and extrinsic evidence, we determine that
`
`one of ordinary skill in the art would understand
`
`'storage element' to mean 'an element of a system that
`
`stores non-negligible amounts of energy from an input
`
`EM signal.'"
`
` That's what it reads, correct?
`
` A. Yes, that's right.
`
` Q. And so the Board ended up rejecting
`
`ParkerVision's construction insofar that the Board's
`
`construction does not include the phrase "of an energy
`
`transfer system," correct?
`
` A. I agree with that.
`
` Q. Now, we talked about this yesterday in your
`
`deposition, right?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. And yesterday was the very first time that
`
`you saw this final written decision, correct?
`
` A. I was aware of the Board's claim
`
`construction, but I had not seen the written
`
`description -- sorry -- the final written opinion.
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`Page 22
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`303-988-8470
`
`TCL & Hisense
`Ex. 1021
`Page 22
`
`
`
`Michael Steer, Ph.D. - April 28, 2022
`
` Q. So were you aware that there was a
`
`construction and also aware of what that construction
`
`actually was, or were you only aware in general terms
`
`that there was some construction?
`
` MS. MANDIR: Objection, form.
`
` THE WITNESS: I was aware that the
`
`PTAB claim construction for storage element did not
`
`include "of an energy transfer system."
`
`BY MR. MAYLE:
`
` Q. You don't mention that fact anywhere in
`
`your declaration, correct?
`
` MS. MANDIR: Objection, form.
`
` THE WITNESS: I don't recall. I would
`
`need to go back and look at what I actually said about
`
`claim construction.
`
`BY MR. MAYLE:
`
` Q. Let's see if I can help you.
`
` A. You can take me to that page because
`
`obviously I didn't print everything out.
`
` Q. It's probably 36 in your declaration, which
`
`is Exhibit 1.
`
` A. It's not Page 36. Page 86?
`
` Q. 36.
`
` A. I'm looking at Page 36 of my declaration.
`
` Q. Right.
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`Page 23
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`303-988-8470
`
`TCL & Hisense
`Ex. 1021
`Page 23
`
`
`
`Michael Steer, Ph.D. - April 28, 2022
`
` A. It describes I/Q modulation.
`
` Q. Hold on a second. Let me make sure I'm in
`
`the right -- sorry. I was looking at patent owners,
`
`not your -- I was looking at ParkerVision's paper, not
`
`your declaration. It looks like, yeah, 86.
`
` A. And then in Paragraph 226, I said that, "I
`
`have reviewed the construction of the Board in
`
`IPR2020-01265, which construed 'storage element' as 'an
`
`element of a system that stores non-negligible amounts
`
`of energy from an input electromagnetic signal.'"
`
` So I did mention the Board's claim
`
`construction.
`
` Q. And that claim construction was for claims
`
`in the '444 patent, correct?
`
` A. That's correct. 2020-01265. That's the
`
`same number.
`
` Q. And your proposed claim construction is
`
`different than the Board's construction of storage
`
`element, correct?
`
` A. That's correct. There are two claim
`
`constructions going around, of course. The PTAB and
`
`this -- the Intel IPR related to the '444 is not the
`
`same as the one from the U.S. District Court.
`
` Q. And you've rendered some opinions in this
`
`declaration about the petitioners' proposed grounds for
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`Page 24
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`303-988-8470
`
`TCL & Hisense
`Ex. 1021
`Page 24
`
`
`
`Michael Steer, Ph.D. - April 28, 2022
`
`obviousness, correct?
`
` MS. MANDIR: Objection, form.
`
` THE WITNESS: Yes, I do.
`
`BY MR. MAYLE:
`
` Q. And your opinions as to obviousness in this
`
`IPR are not based on the Board's construction of
`
`storage module, correct? Storage element.
`
` MS. MANDIR: Objection, form.
`
` THE WITNESS: My recollection is that
`
`there's only one part of my report that relates to an
`
`energy transfer system. Every other part of the report
`
`upholds with the PTAB's construction.
`
`BY MR. MAYLE:
`
` Q. Okay. So the parts of your report that
`
`relate to "of an energy transfer system" are not based
`
`on the Board's construction of storage element,
`
`correct?
`
` MS. MANDIR: Objection, form.
`
` THE WITNESS: I want to be careful in
`
`answering that so that I make sure that I understand
`
`it. So there is one part of my report that relates to
`
`-- well, actually, I describe an energy transfer system
`
`in the background of the report. There is only one
`
`part where I -- in regards to Tayloe where I consider
`
`energy being transferred to the load, but all of my
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`Page 25
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`303-988-8470
`
`TCL & Hisense
`Ex. 1021
`Page 25
`
`
`
`Michael Steer, Ph.D. - April 28, 2022
`
`other opinions hold with respect to either a claim
`
`construction.
`
`BY MR. MAYLE:
`
` Q. Right. Just to be clear, I'm not talking
`
`about the other parts. Let's focus for a minute on the
`
`parts of your opinions that relate to "of an energy
`
`transfer system" and only those parts.
`
` Your opinions are not based on the Board's
`
`construction of storage element, right?
`
` MS. MANDIR: Objection, form.
`
` THE WITNESS: There are a few
`
`negatives in there, and I -- and so I don't know -- I
`
`don't think I can answer that question directly, but
`
`there is one proof regarding Tayloe which addresses the
`
`concept of the energy transfer system, but all of my
`
`other opinions that I express hold with either a claim
`
`construction for storage module.
`
`BY MR. MAYLE:
`
` Q. Let's go back to your declaration at
`
`page --
`
` A. Which page was that again, please?
`
` Q. I'll direct your attention to Page 86.
`
` A. Yes. I'm on Page 86.
`
` Q. You're not a lawyer or a registered patent
`
`issuer, correct?
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`Page 26
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`303-988-8470
`
`TCL & Hisense
`Ex. 1021
`Page 26
`
`
`
`Michael Steer, Ph.D. - April 28, 2022
`
` A. No, I am not.
`
` Q. You don't mean to give any opinions on the
`
`law in your declaration, right?
`
` A. The only methods of law that I describe are
`
`the ones that were -- the opinions were given to me by
`
`counsel.
`
` Q. And do you mean, for example, in
`
`Paragraph 222, you state, "I understand," and then you
`
`state some understandings. Were those understandings
`
`given to you by counsel?
`
` A. Yes. They informed me of those matters,
`
`that claim construction is a matter of law, and that
`
`claim construction in this case will be determined by
`
`the Patent Trial and Appeal Board.
`
` Q. Okay. And in these Paragraphs 222 and 223,
`
`you don't mention the concept of lexicography, correct?
`
` A. Well, my understanding of lexicography is
`
`it's the process of writing a dictionary, but I don't
`
`know whether it has a particular legal meaning or not.
`
`It seems using lexicography in the plain and ordinary
`
`meaning -- I don't know how it applies here. So if
`
`we're talking about the lexicographic definition
`
`related to claim construction, I think that must have a
`
`legal meaning that I'm not aware of.
`
` Q. In your response there, you mentioned
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`Page 27
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`303-988-8470
`
`TCL & Hisense
`Ex. 1021
`Page 27
`
`
`
`M
Accessing this document will incur an additional charge of $.
After purchase, you can access this document again without charge.
Accept $ Charge
Still Working On It
This document is taking longer than usual to download. This can happen if we need to contact the court directly to obtain the document and their servers are running slowly.
Give it another minute or two to complete, and then try the refresh button.
A few More Minutes ... Still Working
It can take up to 5 minutes for us to download a document if the court servers are running slowly.
Thank you for your continued patience.
This document could not be displayed.
We could not find this document within its docket. Please go back to the docket page and check the link. If that does not work, go back to the docket and refresh it to pull the newest information.
Your account does not support viewing this document.
You need a Paid Account to view this document. Click here to change your account type.
Your account does not support viewing this document.
Set your membership
status to view this document.
With a Docket Alarm membership, you'll
get a whole lot more, including:
- Up-to-date information for this case.
- Email alerts whenever there is an update.
- Full text search for other cases.
- Get email alerts whenever a new case matches your search.
One Moment Please
The filing “” is large (MB) and is being downloaded.
Please refresh this page in a few minutes to see if the filing has been downloaded. The filing will also be emailed to you when the download completes.
Your document is on its way!
If you do not receive the document in five minutes, contact support at support@docketalarm.com.
Sealed Document
We are unable to display this document, it may be under a court ordered seal.
If you have proper credentials to access the file, you may proceed directly to the court's system using your government issued username and password.
Access Government Site
