·1· ·UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`· · ·BEFORE THE PATIENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`·2· ·--------------------------------------
`· · ·MICROSOFT CORPORATION,
`·3
`· · · · · · ·Petitioner· · Case IPR2021-00831
`·4
`· · · · · · ·V.
`·5
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`·6· ·DAEDALUS BLUE, LLC,
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`·7· · · · · · Patent Owner.
`· · ·--------------------------------------
`·8
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`·9· · · · · · VIDEO-RECORDED DEPOSITION OF EREZ
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`10· ·ZADOK, Ph.D., taken by Patent Owner, pursuant
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`11· ·to Notice, via Zoom, on Friday, February 18,
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`12· ·2022, at 10:00 a.m., before Monique Cabrera, a
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`13· ·Shorthand Reporter and Notary Public, within
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`14· ·and for the State of New York.
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`15
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`17
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`18
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`19
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`20
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`24
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`25
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`Exhibit 2025 Page 1
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`Daedalus Blue Exhibit 2025
`Microsoft Corp. v. Daedalus Blue, LLC
`Case IPR2021-00831
`
`
`· · ·BEFORE THE PATIENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`·2· ·--------------------------------------
`· · ·MICROSOFT CORPORATION,
`·3
`· · · · · · ·Petitioner· · Case IPR2021-00831
`·4
`· · · · · · ·V.
`·5
`
`·6· ·DAEDALUS BLUE, LLC,
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`·7· · · · · · Patent Owner.
`· · ·--------------------------------------
`·8
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`·9· · · · · · VIDEO-RECORDED DEPOSITION OF EREZ
`
`10· ·ZADOK, Ph.D., taken by Patent Owner, pursuant
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`11· ·to Notice, via Zoom, on Friday, February 18,
`
`12· ·2022, at 10:00 a.m., before Monique Cabrera, a
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`13· ·Shorthand Reporter and Notary Public, within
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`14· ·and for the State of New York.
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`15
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`16
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`17
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`18
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`19
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`20
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`21
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`22
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`23
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`24
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`25
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`Exhibit 2025 Page 1
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`Daedalus Blue Exhibit 2025
`Microsoft Corp. v. Daedalus Blue, LLC
`Case IPR2021-00831
`
`
`
`·1· ·A P P E A R A N C E S :
`
`·2· ·McNISH, PLLC
`· · · · · · ·Attorneys for Patent Owner
`·3· ·254 Commercial Street
`· · ·Suite 245
`·4· ·Portland, Maine· 04101
`
`·5· ·BY:· KEVIN MCNISH, ESQ.
`· · · · · kmcnish@mcnishpllc.com
`·6
`
`·7
`· · ·ORRICK, HERRINGTON & SUTCLIFFE, LLP
`·8· · · · · ·Attorneys for Petitioner
`· · ·1000 Marsh Road
`·9· ·Menlo Park, California 94025-1015
`
`10· ·BY:· JARED BOBROW, ESQ. (Pro hac vice)
`· · · · · jbobrow@orrick.com
`11
`
`12
`· · ·ALSO PRESENT:
`13
`· · · · · · · Li Shen, Esq.
`14· · · · · ·Orrick, Herrington & Sutcliffe LLP
`
`15· · · · · ·Thomas Del Vecchio,
`· · · · · · ·Videographer
`16
`
`17· · · · · · · · · · · · * * *
`
`18
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`19
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`20
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`21
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`22
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`23
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`24
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`25
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`Exhibit 2025 Page 2
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`
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`·1· · · · · · · · · · I N D E X
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`·2· ·WITNESS· · · · EXAMINATION BY· · · PAGE #
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`·3· ·E. Zadok, Ph.D· ·Mr. McNish· · · · · ·5
`
`·4
`
`·5
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`·6· ·EXH NO.· · · · DESCRIPTION· · · · · · ·PAGE #
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`·7· ·Exhibit 1003· ·Declaration of Dr.
`
`·8· · · · · · · · · ·Erez Zadok· · · · · · · ·22
`
`·9· ·Exhibit 1014· ·Tivoli Storage Manager
`
`10· · · · · · · · · for Windows· · · · · · · ·25
`
`11· ·Exhibit 1006· ·Tivoli Storage Manager,
`
`12· · · · · · · · · A Technical Introduction· 37
`
`13· ·Exhibit 1005· ·Gelb reference· · · · · · 62
`
`14
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`15
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`16
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`17
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`18
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`19
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`20
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`21
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`22
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`23
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`24
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`25
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`Exhibit 2025 Page 3
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`·1· · · · · · THE VIDEOGRAPHER:· Good morning.
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`·2· · · · · ·Here begins Media Number 1 in the
`
`·3· ·deposition of Dr. Erez Zadok, in the matter of
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`·4· ·Microsoft Corporation, Petitioner, versus
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`·5· ·Daedalus Blue LLC, Patent Owner, Case No.
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`·6· ·IPR2021-00831.· Today's date is Friday,
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`·7· ·February 18, 2022.· The time on the monitor is
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`·8· ·10:03 a.m.
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`·9· · · · · ·My name is Thomas Del Vecchio.· I am
`
`10· ·the videographer.· The Court Reporter is
`
`11· ·Monique Cabrera.· We are with Huseby Global
`
`12· ·Litigation.
`
`13· · · · · ·Counsel, please introduce yourselves
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`14· ·for the record, after which the Court Reporter
`
`15· ·will swear in or affirm the witness.
`
`16· · · · · ·MR. MCNISH:· Kevin McNish from McNish
`
`17· ·PLLC, lead counsel for Daedalus Blue, Patent
`
`18· ·Owner.
`
`19· · · · · ·MR. BOBROW:· Good morning.· This is
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`20· ·Jared Bobrow, of Orrick, Herrington &
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`21· ·Sutcliffe for petitioner Microsoft, and with
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`22· ·me from my law firm is Li Shen.
`
`23· ·Whereupon,
`
`24· · · · · · · · · EREZ ZADOK, PH.D
`
`25· ·after having been first duly sworn by the
`
`Exhibit 2025 Page 4
`
`
`
`·1· ·Court Reporter, was examined and testified as
`
`·2· ·follows:
`
`·3· · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· I do.
`
`·4· · · · · ·COURT REPORTER:· Can you state your
`
`·5· ·name and address for the record.
`
`·6· · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· Yes, my name is Erez
`
`·7· ·Zadok.· The address is 47 Hawkins Road in
`
`·8· ·Stony Brook, New York 11790.
`
`·9· ·EXAMINATION
`
`10· ·BY MR. MCNISH:
`
`11· · · ·Q.· Good morning.· My name is Kevin
`
`12· ·McNish.· I represent the Patent Owner,
`
`13· ·Daedalus Blue, LLC.
`
`14· · · · · ·This is a remote videoconference
`
`15· ·deposition in Case IPR2021-00831 at the Patent
`
`16· ·Trial and Appeal Board.
`
`17· · · · · ·Dr. Zadok, I am going to be asking
`
`18· ·you a series of questions today.· Do you
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`19· ·understand that you were just been sworn in
`
`20· ·and will be answering my questions under oath?
`
`21· · · ·A.· Yes.
`
`22· · · ·Q.· Do you understand you are obligated
`
`23· ·to testify truthfully today?
`
`24· · · ·A.· Yes.
`
`25· · · ·Q.· Do you understand that your testimony
`
`Exhibit 2025 Page 5
`
`
`
`·1· ·will become part of the record in this
`
`·2· ·proceeding?
`
`·3· · · ·A.· Yes.
`
`·4· · · ·Q.· Do you understand that your testimony
`
`·5· ·will become publicly available as if you are
`
`·6· ·testifying in court?
`
`·7· · · ·A.· Yes.
`
`·8· · · ·Q.· Do you understand that your being
`
`·9· ·video recorded today?
`
`10· · · ·A.· Yes.
`
`11· · · ·Q.· Do you understand that with the
`
`12· ·Patient Trial and Appeal Board's
`
`13· ·authorization, that this video recording may
`
`14· ·be submitted as evidence?
`
`15· · · ·A.· Yes.
`
`16· · · ·Q.· We have a Court Reporter appearing
`
`17· ·today as well remotely, who will be
`
`18· ·transcribing my questions and your answers
`
`19· ·today.· Because our Court Reporter is remote,
`
`20· ·it's going to be especially important that we
`
`21· ·try to avoid talking over each other.· So
`
`22· ·would you please wait until I finish my
`
`23· ·questions before you start answering them
`
`24· ·today?
`
`25· · · ·A.· Yes.
`
`Exhibit 2025 Page 6
`
`
`
`·1· · · ·Q.· Thank you.· Also, just please give
`
`·2· ·verbal answers for the Court Reporter to write
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`·3· ·down as opposed to gestures or "Ah hah's, or
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`·4· ·anything like that.· Will you please do that
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`·5· ·for me?
`
`·6· · · ·A.· Sure.
`
`·7· · · ·Q.· Great.· If you don't understand a
`
`·8· ·question or if you hear me get off, please
`
`·9· ·just ask me to repeat the question or clarify
`
`10· ·it; if you don't, I will assume you understood
`
`11· ·the question as I asked it; fair?
`
`12· · · ·A.· Okay.
`
`13· · · ·Q.· Where are you physically located
`
`14· ·today?
`
`15· · · ·A.· Physically, I am located in my home.
`
`16· · · ·Q.· In Stony Brook?
`
`17· · · ·A.· Correct.
`
`18· · · ·Q.· Is anyone in the room with you?
`
`19· · · ·A.· No.
`
`20· · · ·Q.· If anyone else comes in will you
`
`21· ·please just let me know?
`
`22· · · ·A.· Yes.
`
`23· · · ·Q.· Do you have any hard copy documents
`
`24· ·with you?
`
`25· · · ·A.· Yes, I do.
`
`Exhibit 2025 Page 7
`
`
`
`·1· · · ·Q.· Would you please give me a list of
`
`·2· ·the hard copy documents you have with you?
`
`·3· · · ·A.· You want everything?
`
`·4· · · ·Q.· Yes, please.
`
`·5· · · ·A.· Okay.· So there's 3 binders.· I have
`
`·6· ·like kind of side tables next to me that I
`
`·7· ·might turn to.· The binders came from Orrick a
`
`·8· ·couple of weeks ago.
`
`·9· · · · · ·The first binder is "IPR Briefs and
`
`10· ·Declarations."· It's got tabs marked
`
`11· ·"Microsoft Petition '132."
`
`12· · · · · ·Next is "Declarations Executed."
`
`13· · · · · ·Next is "Preliminary Patent Owner
`
`14· ·Response Team."
`
`15· · · · · ·Next is "2001 White Declaration."
`
`16· · · · · ·Next is "P Declaration Sealed."
`
`17· · · · · ·Next is "Ideanomics Declaration
`
`18· ·Sealed."
`
`19· · · · · ·Next is "Microsoft Preliminary Reply
`
`20· ·Sealed."
`
`21· · · · · ·Next is "Patent Owner Preliminary Su
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`22· ·(ph) Replied Sealed."
`
`23· · · · · ·And the last one here is the "PTAB
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`24· ·Decision Granting Institution."
`
`25· · · ·Q.· You said one of 3 binders that you
`
`Exhibit 2025 Page 8
`
`
`
`·1· ·have?
`
`·2· · · ·A.· Yes, that's binder one.
`
`·3· · · ·Q.· Okay.· Let's stick with binder one
`
`·4· ·for a moment.· Are there any mark up on any of
`
`·5· ·the documents in binder one?
`
`·6· · · ·A.· None that I have seen.
`
`·7· · · ·Q.· Okay.· Let's turn to binder 2, what
`
`·8· ·is in that?
`
`·9· · · ·A.· So this is exhibits -- binder 1 of 2
`
`10· ·of exhibits, and it says -- so the first one
`
`11· ·is the '132 patent.
`
`12· · · · · ·The next one is the '132 file
`
`13· ·history.
`
`14· · · · · ·Next is the Gelb reference, G E L B.
`
`15· · · · · ·Next is the Tivoli Storage Manager
`
`16· ·documents.
`
`17· · · · · ·Next is Callaghan NFS illustrated PC
`
`18· ·NFS reference.
`
`19· · · · · ·Next is the Deborah Kondo reference.
`
`20· · · · · ·Next is the Daedalus complaint, dated
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`21· ·December 16th, 2020.
`
`22· · · · · ·Next is a tab marked IBM Red Books,
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`23· ·How to Buy.
`
`24· · · · · ·Next is IA Declaration Tivoli Storage
`
`25· ·Manager, a Tech Intro.· It looks like an
`
`Exhibit 2025 Page 9
`
`
`
`·1· ·affidavit of a Dunkin Hall.
`
`·2· · · · · ·Next is marked Callaghan NFS
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`·3· ·Illustrated U.S. Copyright Web Voyage Record.
`
`·4· · · · · ·Next is Tivoli Storage Manager for
`
`·5· ·Windows.
`
`·6· · · · · ·Next is Excerpts from Microsoft
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`·7· ·Dictionary 2002.
`
`·8· · · · · ·Next is a paper titled "Snap Mirror"
`
`·9· ·by Patterson.
`
`10· · · · · ·Next is a Patent to Hitz, H I T Z.
`
`11· · · · · ·Next is a paper titled Design and
`
`12· ·Implementation of Sun Network Process System
`
`13· ·to multiple authors.· The first one, last name
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`14· ·is Sandberg.
`
`15· · · · · ·The next is a publication to an
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`16· ·author named Hungate, H U N G A T E.
`
`17· · · · · ·Next is a publication marked "RFC
`
`18· ·2822."
`
`19· · · · · ·Next appears to be a copy of an
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`20· ·e-mail dated May 4th, '21, from a Jun, J U N,
`
`21· ·last name Zheng, Z H E N G.
`
`22· · · · · ·Next seems to be a copy of an article
`
`23· ·from Law 360 titled, "Judge Albright Now
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`24· ·Oversees 20 Percent of New U.S. Patent Cases.
`
`25· · · · · ·Next is Daedalus Blue Preliminary
`
`Exhibit 2025 Page 10
`
`
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`·1· ·Infringement Intentions, dated May 20th, '21.
`
`·2· · · · · ·Next is a whole affidavit.
`
`·3· · · · · ·Next is a June 30 scheduling order
`
`·4· ·for the Western District of Texas Court.
`
`·5· · · · · ·The last one in this binder is May
`
`·6· ·7th Notice of Filing Petitions for IPR.
`
`·7· · · · · ·So that's the second binder.
`
`·8· · · ·Q.· In the second binder, is there a mark
`
`·9· ·up on any of the documents?
`
`10· · · ·A.· Not that I see.
`
`11· · · ·Q.· You mentioned you also had a third
`
`12· ·binder with you; what is in that third binder?
`
`13· · · ·A.· This one is marked Exhibit's 2 of 2.
`
`14· ·All right.
`
`15· · · · · ·The first one is July 8th, '21,
`
`16· ·"Microsoft Preliminary Validity Contentions,"
`
`17· ·and it looks like a series of Claim Charts
`
`18· ·after that.
`
`19· · · · · ·Claim Chart one is Gelb.
`
`20· · · · · ·Next is Claim Chart 2, Deborah Kondo.
`
`21· · · · · ·Then it skips to Claim Chart 6
`
`22· ·Tivoli.
`
`23· · · · · ·And then there is a tab marked C7,
`
`24· ·Secondary References.· It seems to mention a
`
`25· ·case Callaghan here.
`
`Exhibit 2025 Page 11
`
`
`
`·1· · · · · ·The next is Microsoft Press Computer
`
`·2· ·Dictionary 2002 excerpts.
`
`·3· · · · · ·Next is "Protective Order Matil, ST
`
`·4· ·Spec V1."· This looks like the title is Tivoli
`
`·5· ·Storage Tank Initial Programming Functional
`
`·6· ·Specifications, version 1.1.
`
`·7· · · · · ·The next one says "Protective Order
`
`·8· ·Material ST Spec V1_2."· It seems to be the
`
`·9· ·same kind of functional specification
`
`10· ·document, but this one says version 1.2.
`
`11· · · · · ·Next, it says "Protective Order
`
`12· ·Materials Storage Tank Strategy Draft 8.· It
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`13· ·looks like a printout from a series of
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`14· ·PowerPoint slide presentations, perhaps.
`
`15· · · · · ·Next is "Protective Order Materials
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`16· ·Storage Tank Development Review," February
`
`17· ·2nd, 2011.
`
`18· · · · · ·Next is "Protective Order Material
`
`19· ·ST_R1_HLD_0 Storage Tank Release One High
`
`20· ·Level Design Version Draft 0."
`
`21· · · · · ·Next is "Protective Order Material ST
`
`22· ·Sched, S C H E D, External."· It looks like
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`23· ·some timeline scheduling for work on storage
`
`24· ·tanks.
`
`25· · · · · ·Next is "Defendants Revised Proposed
`
`Exhibit 2025 Page 12
`
`
`
`·1· ·Claim Construction."
`
`·2· · · · · ·Next is "August 3rd, 21, Microsoft
`
`·3· ·Identification of Extrinsic Evidence."
`
`·4· · · · · ·Next is a Patent 2 mark, numbered
`
`·5· ·6,154,776.
`
`·6· · · · · ·The next is a Patent to Gai, G A I,
`
`·7· ·number 6,167,445.
`
`·8· · · · · ·Next is a Patent to Huang, H U A N G,
`
`·9· ·number 6,212,562.
`
`10· · · · · ·And the last thing here is MF0
`
`11· ·Declaration Preliminary Response, Declaration
`
`12· ·of Michael Flynn O'Brien in support of Patent
`
`13· ·Owner Daedalus."
`
`14· · · · · ·That's the last one.
`
`15· · · ·Q.· Is there any mark up on any of those
`
`16· ·documents?
`
`17· · · ·A.· No, none that I see.
`
`18· · · ·Q.· Do you have any other hard copy
`
`19· ·documents with you, other than what's in those
`
`20· ·3 binders?
`
`21· · · ·A.· No.
`
`22· · · ·Q.· All right.· So just continue.· So I
`
`23· ·am going to be using the Huseby Global
`
`24· ·Litigation exhibit platform to share exhibits
`
`25· ·today.
`
`Exhibit 2025 Page 13
`
`
`
`·1· · · · · ·Just to confirm, it sounds like you
`
`·2· ·have hard copies as well, but have you
`
`·3· ·established an account with Huseby to receive
`
`·4· ·exhibits?
`
`·5· · · ·A.· Yes.
`
`·6· · · ·Q.· Okay.· Great.
`
`·7· · · · · ·So as I introduce exhibits, they will
`
`·8· ·appear in the public folder and you'll be able
`
`·9· ·to view them by clicking on them.· I will just
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`10· ·ask you to confirm that you have received the
`
`11· ·exhibits as I have introduced them.
`
`12· · · ·A.· Okay.
`
`13· · · ·Q.· Other than any windows or tabs for
`
`14· ·the Huseby platform or this videoconference,
`
`15· ·do you have any other windows or tabs open on
`
`16· ·your computer right now?
`
`17· · · ·A.· Let's see, the browser, Zoom.· I have
`
`18· ·a blank folder that I created on my desktop
`
`19· ·that's open on the theory that I might be able
`
`20· ·to download the Huseby documents in the folder
`
`21· ·then to open them locally.
`
`22· · · ·Q.· What you have open on the browser,
`
`23· ·just the Huseby tab or do you have any --
`
`24· · · ·A.· Yes, just that one tab.
`
`25· · · ·Q.· Okay.· All right.
`
`Exhibit 2025 Page 14
`
`
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`·1· · · · · ·And the computer that you're using
`
`·2· ·for this video conference, does that have any
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`·3· ·files related to your work on this case on it?
`
`·4· · · ·A.· Yes.
`
`·5· · · ·Q.· Which files are those?
`
`·6· · · ·A.· So pretty much everything that I
`
`·7· ·received or produced in this matter.
`
`·8· · · ·Q.· Are any of them open right now?
`
`·9· · · ·A.· No.
`
`10· · · ·Q.· And other than the computer that you
`
`11· ·are using for this video conference, do you
`
`12· ·have any other computers or communication
`
`13· ·devices in the room with you today?
`
`14· · · ·A.· Yes.
`
`15· · · ·Q.· Okay.· So I am going to ask you not
`
`16· ·to communicate with any person who is not in
`
`17· ·this video conference, text messaging, instant
`
`18· ·messaging, e-mail, anything like that; is that
`
`19· ·okay?
`
`20· · · ·A.· Of course.
`
`21· · · ·Q.· And other than through this video
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`22· ·conference, do you have any form of
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`23· ·communication with any counsel from Microsoft
`
`24· ·right now?
`
`25· · · ·A.· No.
`
`Exhibit 2025 Page 15
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`
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`·1· · · ·Q.· And, again, I will ask that you not
`
`·2· ·communicate with counsel from Microsoft during
`
`·3· ·this deposition.
`
`·4· · · · · ·Will you agree to reframe from using
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`·5· ·e-mail, text, instant messaging or any other
`
`·6· ·form of communication during your deposition
`
`·7· ·or during breaks today with counsel from
`
`·8· ·Microsoft?
`
`·9· · · ·A.· Of course.
`
`10· · · · · ·MR. BOBROW:· Again, Kevin, I don't
`
`11· ·know that that's appropriate, I mean, we are
`
`12· ·allowed to speak, just not about the substance
`
`13· ·of the deposition, I mean, you're not saying
`
`14· ·that we can't say hello or speak pleasantries,
`
`15· ·are you?
`
`16· · · · · ·MR. MCNISH:· Let me rephrase.
`
`17· · · ·Q.· During the deposition will you agree
`
`18· ·to refrain from using e-mail, text, instant
`
`19· ·messaging or other forms of communications?
`
`20· · · ·A.· Yes.
`
`21· · · · · ·MR. BOBROW:· Again, I think, that's
`
`22· ·also the same point, but go ahead.
`
`23· · · ·Q.· And do you have a copy of the
`
`24· ·realtime transcript of this deposition going
`
`25· ·in front of you?
`
`Exhibit 2025 Page 16
`
`
`
`·1· · · ·A.· No.
`
`·2· · · ·Q.· If you encounter any technical
`
`·3· ·difficulties, will you please let me know and
`
`·4· ·we can go off the record to address those?
`
`·5· · · ·A.· Sure.
`
`·6· · · ·Q.· Okay.· Finally, is there anything
`
`·7· ·keep you from giving full and truthful
`
`·8· ·testimony to the best of your ability today?
`
`·9· · · ·A.· No, not really.
`
`10· · · ·Q.· When you say "not really," what do
`
`11· ·you mean by that?
`
`12· · · ·A.· No.
`
`13· · · ·Q.· All right, just making sure.
`
`14· · · · · ·Would you please let me know what you
`
`15· ·did to prepare for this deposition?
`
`16· · · ·A.· Sure.· I reviewed a number of
`
`17· ·documents and met with Microsoft counsel.
`
`18· · · ·Q.· Any of the documents that you
`
`19· ·reviewed to prepare for your deposition, did
`
`20· ·any of them refresh your recollection?
`
`21· · · ·A.· Yes.
`
`22· · · ·Q.· All right.· Which documents refreshed
`
`23· ·your recollection that you reviewed, while
`
`24· ·preparing for your deposition?
`
`25· · · ·A.· Let's see, so my own IPR Declaration,
`
`Exhibit 2025 Page 17
`
`
`
`·1· ·the Patent, the PTAB's institution decision,
`
`·2· ·the Patent Owner Preliminary Reply,
`
`·3· ·Dr. White's Declaration, a number of the main
`
`·4· ·references cited in my Declaration.
`
`·5· · · ·Q.· Anything else?
`
`·6· · · ·A.· Let me see; yes, I have also reviewed
`
`·7· ·some of the -- my Claim Construction
`
`·8· ·Declaration.
`
`·9· · · ·Q.· When you say your "Claim Construction
`
`10· ·Declaration," that's in reference to the
`
`11· ·District Court litigation?
`
`12· · · ·A.· Correct.
`
`13· · · ·Q.· So other than the documents we have
`
`14· ·discussed, have we covered all the documents
`
`15· ·that you reviewed that refreshed your
`
`16· ·recollection in preparing for this deposition?
`
`17· · · ·A.· Yes, yes.· I mean, let me see, there
`
`18· ·might have been some other documents, but
`
`19· ·pretty much whatever is in my Declaration and
`
`20· ·exhibits cited there.· Those are the primary
`
`21· ·documents.
`
`22· · · ·Q.· I believe you said you worked with
`
`23· ·Microsoft counsel?
`
`24· · · · · ·MR. BOBROW:· I think, he said he met
`
`25· ·with.
`
`Exhibit 2025 Page 18
`
`
`
`·1· · · · · ·MR. MCNISH:· I am sorry, met with
`
`·2· ·Microsoft counsel, my apologies.
`
`·3· · · ·Q.· When did you first meet with
`
`·4· ·Microsoft's counsel to prepare for this
`
`·5· ·deposition?
`
`·6· · · ·A.· So maybe 2, 2-and-a-half weeks ago.
`
`·7· · · ·Q.· Okay.· And who did you meet with
`
`·8· ·during that first meeting?
`
`·9· · · ·A.· I believe it was both Li Shen and
`
`10· ·Jared Bobrow.
`
`11· · · ·Q.· And how long was that first meeting 2
`
`12· ·to 2-and-a-half weeks ago?
`
`13· · · ·A.· I believe it was between an hour and
`
`14· ·2 hours, roughly.
`
`15· · · ·Q.· Did you meet with counsel from
`
`16· ·Microsoft any other time to prepare for your
`
`17· ·deposition today?
`
`18· · · ·A.· No.
`
`19· · · ·Q.· When was -- we talked about the first
`
`20· ·time, when was the second time?
`
`21· · · ·A.· Yesterday.
`
`22· · · ·Q.· And who did you work with -- let me
`
`23· ·start that over.· Who did you meet with during
`
`24· ·your deposition preparation?
`
`25· · · ·A.· Jared and Li.
`
`Exhibit 2025 Page 19
`
`
`
`·1· · · ·Q.· And how long did you spend meeting
`
`·2· ·with Jared and Li yesterday?
`
`·3· · · ·A.· I think it was on the order of 7
`
`·4· ·hours or so.
`
`·5· · · ·Q.· Other than your meeting 2 to 2-and-a-
`
`·6· ·half weeks ago and your meeting yesterday, did
`
`·7· ·you meet with any other counsel from Microsoft
`
`·8· ·to prepare for your deposition?
`
`·9· · · ·A.· Yes.
`
`10· · · ·Q.· When was that?
`
`11· · · ·A.· This morning.
`
`12· · · ·Q.· Okay.· And who did you meet with this
`
`13· ·morning?
`
`14· · · ·A.· Again, Li and Jared.
`
`15· · · ·Q.· And how long was that meeting?
`
`16· · · ·A.· 20 minutes, half an hour.
`
`17· · · ·Q.· Were there any other times that you
`
`18· ·met with counsel from Microsoft to prepare for
`
`19· ·your deposition today?
`
`20· · · ·A.· No.
`
`21· · · ·Q.· And did you do any preparation on
`
`22· ·your own for your deposition today?
`
`23· · · ·A.· Yes.
`
`24· · · ·Q.· Roughly how much time did you spend
`
`25· ·doing that?
`
`Exhibit 2025 Page 20
`
`
`
`·1· · · ·A.· I am trying to estimate because I
`
`·2· ·started several weeks ago and then the first
`
`·3· ·deposition got rescheduled.· I would say on
`
`·4· ·the order of 10 to 15 hours first time around
`
`·5· ·and then kind of second round, over the last
`
`·6· ·four or five days of another, you know, 15,
`
`·7· ·maybe 20 hours.
`
`·8· · · ·Q.· Okay.· So other than that 10 to 15
`
`·9· ·hours several weeks ago, the 15 to 20 hours
`
`10· ·you spent on the second round and your 3
`
`11· ·meetings with counsel for Microsoft, what did
`
`12· ·you do to prepare for today's deposition?
`
`13· · · ·A.· Other than that?· I mean that's kind
`
`14· ·of the core, reviewing the documents,
`
`15· ·refreshing my recollection.
`
`16· · · ·Q.· Did you work with anyone other
`
`17· ·than -- strike that.
`
`18· · · · · ·Did you meet with anyone other than
`
`19· ·counsel for Microsoft in preparing for your
`
`20· ·deposition today?
`
`21· · · ·A.· Do you mean from -- from the firm?
`
`22· · · ·Q.· Yeah.· Just anyone other than an
`
`23· ·attorney from Microsoft in preparing for your
`
`24· ·deposition?
`
`25· · · ·A.· No.
`
`Exhibit 2025 Page 21
`
`
`
`·1· · · ·Q.· And did you bring any electronic or
`
`·2· ·hard copy documents today about what you plan
`
`·3· ·to testify on redirect examination that aren't
`
`·4· ·currently of record in this proceeding?
`
`·5· · · · · ·MR. BOBROW:· I will object to the
`
`·6· ·form of the question.
`
`·7· · · ·A.· If you mean do I have some extra
`
`·8· ·documents that I have not, you know, maybe
`
`·9· ·listed before in the exhibits, no.
`
`10· · · ·Q.· Okay.· All right.· All right.· Okay.
`
`11· ·All right.
`
`12· · · · · ·So let's talk about your Declaration.
`
`13· ·I am going to make that available through the
`
`14· ·Huseby public folder.· One moment.· Okay.
`
`15· · · · · ·Providing the witness with what's
`
`16· ·been previously marked as 1003 in Case
`
`17· ·IPR2021-00831 via the Huseby public folder.
`
`18· · · · · ·Dr. Zadok, would you please just
`
`19· ·confirm that you received Exhibit 1003 in the
`
`20· ·public folder.
`
`21· · · · · ·(Whereupon, Exhibit 1003, Declaration
`
`22· ·of Dr. Erez Zadok, was identified.)
`
`23· · · ·A.· I don't see it.· I'm not sure if I
`
`24· ·need to refresh my browser.
`
`25· · · ·Q.· Yeah.· I just made it available.· You
`
`Exhibit 2025 Page 22
`
`
`
`·1· ·might need to refresh for it to go through.
`
`·2· · · ·A.· Okay.· All right.· I see it.· So now,
`
`·3· ·let me see if I am able to download it.
`
`·4· · · · · ·So I am able to download it and
`
`·5· ·scroll all the way to the bottom.· Yes.· Okay.
`
`·6· ·Got it.
`
`·7· · · ·Q.· Okay.· Great.· Exhibit 1003 is your
`
`·8· ·Declaration in Case IPR2021-00831, correct?
`
`·9· · · ·A.· Yes.
`
`10· · · ·Q.· I am going to call Exhibit 1003 your
`
`11· ·Declaration.· Is that okay?
`
`12· · · ·A.· Yes.
`
`13· · · ·Q.· Great.· How long did you spend
`
`14· ·preparing your Declaration?
`
`15· · · ·A.· It's hard to remember.· This was a
`
`16· ·while back.· I mean, the work itself unfolded
`
`17· ·over several months.
`
`18· · · ·Q.· And over those several months, about
`
`19· ·how many hours did you spend preparing your
`
`20· ·Declaration?
`
`21· · · ·A.· Yeah, it's hard to estimate.· I can
`
`22· ·go through my records and count the hours and
`
`23· ·what they were assigned to.· So I would have
`
`24· ·to guess somewhere between 100 hours and maybe
`
`25· ·150, 200, somewhere there.
`
`Exhibit 2025 Page 23
`
`
`
`·1· · · ·Q.· Okay.· Somewhere between 100 to 200
`
`·2· ·hours would be your estimate?
`
`·3· · · ·A.· That would be my best estimate, you
`
`·4· ·know, short of going back and counting.
`
`·5· · · ·Q.· Okay.· You had the opportunity to
`
`·6· ·review your Declaration during the preparation
`
`·7· ·process, correct?
`
`·8· · · ·A.· Yes.
`
`·9· · · ·Q.· And you had the opportunity to edit
`
`10· ·your Declaration as you saw fit during that
`
`11· ·preparation process, correct?
`
`12· · · ·A.· Sorry?· What was the last word?
`
`13· · · ·Q.· Yeah.· Let me start that over.
`
`14· · · · · ·You had the opportunity to edit your
`
`15· ·Declaration as you saw fit, correct?
`
`16· · · ·A.· Obviously, yes, during the
`
`17· ·preparation of it.
`
`18· · · ·Q.· Okay.· Great.
`
`19· · · · · ·And you approved the final version of
`
`20· ·your Declaration before you signed it,
`
`21· ·correct?
`
`22· · · ·A.· Yes.
`
`23· · · ·Q.· Okay.· Your Declaration accurately
`
`24· ·reflects your opinions in this proceeding?
`
`25· · · ·A.· Yes.
`
`Exhibit 2025 Page 24
`
`
`
`·1· · · ·Q.· Okay.· And you signed your
`
`·2· ·Declaration to certify that it's true and
`
`·3· ·accurate to the best of your knowledge under
`
`·4· ·the penalty of perjury?
`
`·5· · · ·A.· Yes.
`
`·6· · · ·Q.· Okay.· All right.· I am going to have
`
`·7· ·some questions for you about Exhibit 1014
`
`·8· ·next, so I am going to make that available
`
`·9· ·through the Huseby platform.
`
`10· · · · · ·(Whereupon, Exhibit 1014, Tivoli
`
`11· ·Storage Manager for Windows, was identified.)
`
`12· · · ·Q.· And just please confirm that you've
`
`13· ·received it.
`
`14· · · ·A.· I guess I am going to have to wait
`
`15· ·for you to see that it's up and then I will
`
`16· ·refresh when I see it.· If you want to
`
`17· ·introduce multiple exhibits at once, this
`
`18· ·could go a little faster.· But let me refresh
`
`19· ·now.
`
`20· · · ·Q.· Sure.
`
`21· · · ·A.· Okay.· I see 1014.· That's the Tivoli
`
`22· ·reference.
`
`23· · · ·Q.· So Exhibit 1014 is one of the
`
`24· ·documents you discuss in your Declaration,
`
`25· ·correct?
`
`Exhibit 2025 Page 25
`
`
`
`·1· · · ·A.· Yes.
`
`·2· · · ·Q.· Okay.· All right.· I am going to be
`
`·3· ·sharing my screen to depict Exhibit 1003,
`
`·4· ·paragraph 220.
`
`·5· · · ·A.· Okay.· 220.
`
`·6· · · ·Q.· This is labeled at pages 109 and 110
`
`·7· ·of Exhibit 1003.
`
`·8· · · ·A.· Okay.· I am on 220 in -- in, you
`
`·9· ·know, my open copy.
`
`10· · · ·Q.· Okay.· Great.
`
`11· · · · · ·Is the copy I'm showing the same as
`
`12· ·your open copy?
`
`13· · · ·A.· Yeah.· I would -- I would assume so.
`
`14· · · ·Q.· Okay.· Just making sure.
`
`15· · · · · ·So turning to the portion of
`
`16· ·paragraph 2 -- I am sorry.· Let me start that
`
`17· ·over.· Strike that.
`
`18· · · · · ·You testify in paragraph 220 of your
`
`19· ·Declaration that the Tivoli storage manager
`
`20· ·was able to utilize an NFS system for file
`
`21· ·sharing over a SAN; correct?
`
`22· · · ·A.· So in this paragraph, let me just get
`
`23· ·the context here.· Okay.· This is in -- looks
`
`24· ·like in ground 2 motivation to combine Gelb
`
`25· ·with Tivoli and Callaghan.
`
`Exhibit 2025 Page 26
`
`
`
`·1· · · · · ·And this is part of it where -- where
`
`·2· ·I am saying that Tivoli teaches a storage
`
`·3· ·system and let's users store data across wide
`
`·4· ·area networks, local area networks or storage
`
`·5· ·area networks.· And Callaghan is clearly a
`
`·6· ·reference about NFS, or another form of a
`
`·7· ·storage system -- a storage file system,
`
`·8· ·network one.· Right.
`
`·9· · · ·Q.· Okay.· I'll just -- just reask so
`
`10· ·we've got a clean transcript.
`
`11· · · · · ·At the top of page 110, labeled
`
`12· ·page 110 of your Declaration, you testify,
`
`13· ·"Indeed, at the time of the alleged invention,
`
`14· ·the Tivoli storage manager was able to utilize
`
`15· ·an NFS system for file sharing over a SAN,"
`
`16· ·correct?
`
`17· · · ·A.· I mean that's what I am saying there.
`
`18· ·I am referring to this Patent.· I don't -- I
`
`19· ·don't have it in front of me, but if I had it
`
`20· ·I could review it and -- and see what it says.
`
`21· ·This is from archive.org.
`
`22· · · ·Q.· You have a copy of Exhibit 1014
`
`23· ·available through the Huseby platform?
`
`24· · · ·A.· Yes.
`
`25· · · ·Q.· I am just trying to confirm what your
`
`Exhibit 2025 Page 27
`
`
`
`·1· ·testimony is about that Exhibit 1014.
`
`·2· · · · · ·Can you see my screen as I am
`
`·3· ·currently sharing it?
`
`·4· · · ·A.· Yeah.
`
`·5· · · ·Q.· Okay.· So in the highlighted portion
`
`·6· ·of your Declaration, top of page -- labeled
`
`·7· ·page 110, you testify, "Indeed, at the time of
`
`·8· ·the alleged invention, the Tivoli storage
`
`·9· ·manager was able to utilize an NFS system for
`
`10· ·file sharing over a SAN, correct?· Just
`
`11· ·confirming that's what your testimony is.
`
`12· · · ·A.· Again, that -- that's what I am
`
`13· ·saying in -- in this particular passage.
`
`14· ·Looking at the Tivoli reference, it does
`
`15· ·mention using NFS and CIFS to sharing --
`
`16· ·sharing disks, and also using what looks like
`
`17· ·a Tivoli product or component called Sanergy,
`
`18· ·S A N E R G Y.· This on page 4 of the Tivoli
`
`19· ·reference 1014, the document itself, not
`
`20· ·the -- the label, Bates label.
`
`21· · · ·Q.· What is CIFS?
`
`22· · · ·A.· CIFS is a Windows version of a
`
`23· ·network file system.
`
`24· · · ·Q.· Does CIFS run on a Windows server?
`
`25· · · ·A.· I mean, generally, CIFS is -- is a
`
`Exhibit 2025 Page 28
`
`
`
`·1· ·Microsoft product, so it definitely runs on
`
`·2· ·their platform, their servers, computers.· It
`
`·3· ·doesn't have to be, I think, a Windows server
`
`·4· ·per se.· It could be, you know, other Windows
`
`·5· ·operating system versions.
`
`·6· · · · · ·That said, CIFS uses a particular
`
`·7· ·protocol implementation to access files across
`
`·8· ·a network, and there have been versions of
`
`·9· ·those created to interoperate between Windows
`
`10· ·and nonWindows systems.· For example,
`
`11· ·sometimes called a SMB file system or the SMB
`
`12· ·protocol.· There are tools and software that
`
`13· ·allows one to access Microsoft -- files on the
`
`14· ·Microsoft server from a nonMicrosoft server
`
`15· ·and vice versa.
`
`16· · · ·Q.· All right.· Let me -- let me follow
`
`17· ·up with something that you mentioned.
`
`18· · · · · ·Can CIFS run on a server that is
`
`19· ·running the Windows operating system?
`
`20· · · · · ·Let me reask that.
`
`21· · · · · ·Can CIFS run on a server that is
`
`22· ·running a Windows operating system?
`
`23· · · ·A.· So I am trying to find if you're
`
`24· ·distinguishing between what Microsoft calls
`
`25· ·the Windows server set of products versus the
`
`Exhibit 2025 Page 29
`
`
`
`·1· ·nonserver, like the desktop.
`
`·2· · · · · ·But generally speaking, CIFS, you
`
`·3· ·know, is kind of part of the Microsoft suite
`
`·4· ·so it does run on at least some of their
`
`·5· ·operating systems.· Microsoft does a lot of
`
`·6· ·versions over the years with variations and
`
`·7· ·updates, so I can't say exactly which one it
`
`·8· ·runs, but certainly some of them it would run.
`
`·9· · · ·Q.· Can CIFS be used to share files
`
`10· ·between two computers running a Windows
`
`11· ·operating system?
`
`12· · · ·A.· I am not sure if it's going to be
`
`13· ·CIFS alone, but certainly there is a way to
`
`14· ·share files between two Windows computers
`
`15· ·creating kind of a network share on one
`
`16· ·computer and then kind of exporting it, making
`
`17· ·it available and connecting to it from another
`
`18· ·computer.
`
`19· · · ·Q.· Can CIFS be used to share files
`
`20· ·between a Windows -- let me start that over.
`
`21· · · · · ·Could CIFS be used to share files
`
`22· ·over a network between a client computer
`
`23· ·running Windows and a server running Windows?
`
`24· · · ·A.· So I think if the -- the computer
`
`25· ·that is -- that has local files and making
`
`Exhibit 2025 Page 30
`
`
`
`·1· ·those files available to another computer, we
`
`·2· ·can call it a server.· It's acting at that
`
`·3· ·point as a server.· Even if it might have
`
`·4· ·different functionality at the time, it could
`
`·5· ·also be a client.
`
`·6· · · · · ·And then another computer that would
`
`·7· ·connect to that first computer and be able to
`
`·8· ·access those files over a network share, a
`
`·9· ·network volume, we can call that a client of
`
`10· ·the -- of the server at that time because
`
`11· ·that's the action that it's taking at the
`
`12· ·moment.
`
`13· · · ·Q.· Could CIFS be used to share files
`
`14· ·over a network between a computer that makes
`
`15· ·files available that is running Windows and a
`
`16· ·computer attempting to access those files that
`
`17· ·is also running Windows?
`
`18· · · ·A.· I don't see sort of the difference in
`
`19· ·this question between the previous one.
`
`20· · · · · ·Again, if you -- if you have two
`
`21· ·computers and they can communicate over any
`
`22· ·kind of network, as long as you can set
`
`23· ·everything correctly with respect to
`
`24· ·authentication and network access and maybe
`
`25· ·there is files in between or whatnot, but as
`
`Exhibit 2025 Page 31
`
`
`
`·1· ·long as they can communicate, then one of them
`
`·2· ·can export files to another and we call that a
`
`·3· ·server at the moment.· And the other computer
`
`·4· ·is a client and it's accessing the files.
`
`·5· · · · · ·So if it's accessing those files
`
`·6· ·across a network, you can say that the files
`
`·7· ·are shared at that moment.
`
`·8· · · ·Q.· And that could be accomplished via
`
`·9· ·CIFS?
`
`10· · · ·A.· Again, I think it's -- it's not
`
`11· ·necessarily just CIFS.· That's maybe the core
`
`12· ·technology.· But there is networking that is
`
`13· ·required, there's authentication; sort of the
`
`14· ·whole suite.
`
`15· · · ·Q.· But CIFS could be involved in that
`
`16· ·file sharing process that you discussed?
`
`17· · · ·A.· At least in my experience, yes.
`
`18· · · ·Q.· So just continuing with paragraph 220
`
`19· ·of your Declaration.· I want to discuss the
`
`20· ·parenthetica
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