From:
`Sent:
`To:
`
`Cc:
`Subject:
`Attachments:
`
`Counsel, 
`
`Knedeisen, Mark G. <Mark.Knedeisen@klgates.com>
`Tuesday, August 10, 2021 2:42 PM
`David Holt; IPR50095-0020IP1; PTAB Inbound; AXF-PTAB; Roberto Devoto;
`IPR50095-0022IP1; IPR50095-0019IP1; Hyun Jin In; IPR50095-0021IP1;
`IPR50095-0018IP1; IPR50095-0020IP2; Joel Henry; IPR50095-0021IP2;
`IPR50095-0022IP2; IPR50095-0019IP2; IPR50095-0018IP2
`Bozzo, Brian P.; Weaver, Michelle L.; Ghabrial, Ragae; Murray, Laurén S.
`RE: Apple v Koss IPRs - Routine Discovery
`IPR2021-00255 - 451 Patent - Document Requests_USW_Active01_505041917_1.DOCX;
`IPR2021-00305 - 325 Patent - Document Requests_USW_Active01_505041898_1.DOCX;
`IPR2021-00381 - _982 Patent - Document Requests_USW_Active01_505041881_1.DOCX
`
`Patent Owner disagrees that Patent Owner’s requests are neither specific nor known by Petitioner to be 
`contradictory to its positions.  The requests are specific because they seek sales information about a limited 
`number of specific products.  The requests seek information known by Petitioner to be contradictory to its 
`positions because Petitioner takes the position that the challenged claims are obvious; significant sales are 
`evidence of commercial success; and commercial success is relevant to nonobviousness.  If Petitioner 
`nevertheless refuses to produce the information through routine discovery, please advise whether Petitioner 
`agrees to the following additional discovery under 37 CFR 42.51(b)(2).  Specifically, in IPRs 2021‐00255, 2021‐
`00305 and 2021‐00381, Patent Owner seeks, within 14 of days: 
`
`
`
`
`
`
`
`For IPR2021‐00255, sales revenue and quantity of units sold, by calendar quarter, for the HomePod
`and HomePod Mini since the commercial introduction of those products;
`For IPR2021‐00305, sales revenue and quantity of units sold, by calendar quarter, for the Powerbeats
`Pro since the commercial introduction of that product; and
`For IPR2021‐00381, sales revenue and quantity of units sold, by calendar quarter, for the AirPods (1st
`and 2nd generations) and AirPods Pro since the commercial introduction of those products.
`
`If Petitioner does not agree to this additional discovery, Patent Owner intends to move the Board for the 
`additional discovery under 37 CFR 42.51(b)(2).  Attached are document requests that Patent Owner intends to 
`file with the motions.   
`
`This website (https://www.businessofapps.com/data/apple‐statistics/) estimates that Apple has sold at least 
`15 million Apple AirPods units per year since 2017 (and more than 100 million in 2020); and that Apple has 
`sold at least 4 million HomePod units per year since 2018.   This website 
`(https://www.patentlyapple.com/patently‐apple/2019/11/apple‐airpods‐powerbeats‐pro‐is‐keeping‐apple‐in‐
`the‐hearables‐market‐leadership‐with‐over‐50‐market‐share‐1.html) says that the “market share of their new 
`premium models, such as Beat Powerbeats Pro in May [2019], have increased significantly, boosted by 
`favorable market reviews of sound quality and design by customers.”  Thus, there is more than a possibility 
`and mere allegation that Apple experienced significant sales of these products.  Further: 
`The request do not seek Petitioner’s litigation positions;
`
` Apple does not publicly disclose sales figures for these products;
`The requests are easy to understand; and
`
`
`1
`
`APPLE 1032
`Apple v. Koss
`IPR2021-00592
`
`

`

`
`
`The requests are not overly burdensome to answer.
`
`Please let us know if Petitioner agrees to the additional discovery and/or whether Petitioner opposes the 
`motions for additional discovery. 
`
`Regards, 
`
`Mark Knedeisen
`K&L Gates LLP
`210 Sixth Avenue
`Pittsburgh, PA 15222
`Phone: 412.355.6342
`Fax: 412.355.6501
`mark.knedeisen@klgates.com
`www.klgates.com 
`
`From: David Holt <DTH@fr.com>  
`Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2021 5:08 PM 
`To: Knedeisen, Mark G. <Mark.Knedeisen@klgates.com>; IPR50095‐0020IP1 <IPR50095‐0020IP1@fr.com>; PTAB 
`Inbound <PTABInbound@fr.com>; AXF‐PTAB <AXF‐PTAB@fr.com>; Roberto Devoto <devoto@fr.com>; IPR50095‐
`0022IP1 <IPR50095‐0022IP1@fr.com>; IPR50095‐0019IP1 <IPR50095‐0019IP1@fr.com>; Hyun Jin In <in@fr.com>; 
`IPR50095‐0021IP1 <IPR50095‐0021IP1@fr.com>; IPR50095‐0018IP1 <IPR50095‐0018IP1@fr.com>; IPR50095‐0020IP2 
`<IPR50095‐0020IP2@fr.com>; Joel Henry <jhenry@fr.com>; IPR50095‐0021IP2 <IPR50095‐0021IP2@fr.com>; IPR50095‐
`0022IP2 <IPR50095‐0022IP2@fr.com>; IPR50095‐0019IP2 <IPR50095‐0019IP2@fr.com>; IPR50095‐0018IP2 <IPR50095‐
`0018IP2@fr.com> 
`Cc: Bozzo, Brian P. <Brian.Bozzo@klgates.com>; Weaver, Michelle L. <Michelle.Weaver@klgates.com>; Ghabrial, Ragae 
`<ragae.ghabrial@klgates.com>; Murray, Laurén S. <Lauren.Murray@klgates.com> 
`Subject: RE: Apple v Koss IPRs ‐ Routine Discovery 
`
`Counsel, 
`
`“Routine discovery under 37 C.F.R. § 41.51(b)(1)(iii) is narrowly directed to specific information known to the responding 
`party to be inconsistent with a position advanced by that party in the proceeding, and not broadly directed to any 
`subject area in general within which the requesting party hopes to discover such inconsistent information.”  Garmin Int’l, 
`Inc. v. Cuozzo Speed Tech. LLC, IPR2012‐00001, Paper 26, slip. op. 4 (PTAB Mar. 5, 2013) (informative).  The information 
`identified in Patent Owner’s request is neither specific nor known by Petitioner to be contradictory to any positions 
`advanced in the petitions.  Indeed, Petitioner is not currently aware of any specific information that is inconsistent with 
`the positions advanced in the petitions.  However, if Patent Owner is aware of specific information that it knows is 
`inconsistent with the positions advanced in the petition, please identify that information and Petitioner will consider 
`such a request. 
`
`Sincerely, 
`
`2
`
`

`

`David Holt 
`Principal
`Fish & Richardson P.C.
`1000 Maine Ave. SW, Washington DC 20024
`Direct: +1-202-626-7783 :: Facsimile: +1-877-769-7945
`DTH@fr.com :: fr.com 
`
`From: Knedeisen, Mark G. <Mark.Knedeisen@klgates.com>  
`Sent: Monday, July 26, 2021 5:09 PM 
`To: IPR50095‐0020IP1 <IPR50095‐0020IP1@fr.com>; PTAB Inbound <PTABInbound@fr.com>; AXF‐PTAB <AXF‐
`PTAB@fr.com>; Roberto Devoto <devoto@fr.com>; IPR50095‐0022IP1 <IPR50095‐0022IP1@fr.com>; IPR50095‐0019IP1 
`<IPR50095‐0019IP1@fr.com>; David Holt <DTH@fr.com>; Hyun Jin In <in@fr.com>; IPR50095‐0021IP1 <IPR50095‐
`0021IP1@fr.com>; IPR50095‐0018IP1 <IPR50095‐0018IP1@fr.com>; IPR50095‐0020IP2 <IPR50095‐0020IP2@fr.com>; 
`Joel Henry <jhenry@fr.com>; IPR50095‐0021IP2 <IPR50095‐0021IP2@fr.com>; IPR50095‐0022IP2 <IPR50095‐
`0022IP2@fr.com>; IPR50095‐0019IP2 <IPR50095‐0019IP2@fr.com>; IPR50095‐0018IP2 <IPR50095‐0018IP2@fr.com> 
`Cc: Bozzo, Brian P. <Brian.Bozzo@klgates.com>; Weaver, Michelle L. <Michelle.Weaver@klgates.com>; Ghabrial, Ragae 
`<ragae.ghabrial@klgates.com>; Murray, Laurén S. <Lauren.Murray@klgates.com> 
`Subject: Apple v Koss IPRs ‐ Routine Discovery 
`
`[This email originated outside of F&R.]
`
`Counsel – Rule (37 CFR) 42.51(b)(1)(iii) states that, as part of routine discovery, “a party must serve relevant 
`information that is inconsistent with a position advanced by the party during the proceeding concurrent with 
`the filing of the documents or things that contain the inconsistency.”  In IPR2021‐00255, IPR2021‐00305, 
`IPR2021‐00381, IPR2021‐00546, IPR2021‐00592, IPR2021‐00600, IPR2021‐00626, IPR2021‐00679, IPR2021‐
`00686 and IPR2021‐00693, Petitioner took the position that the Challenged Claims are obvious in these IPR 
`petitions.  Commercial success is relevant to assessing obviousness.  Graham v. John Deere Co., 383 U.S. 1 
`(1966).  Sales are relevant to commercial success.  J.T. Eaton & Co. v. Atlantic Paste & Glue Co., 106 F.3d 1563, 
`1571 (Fed.Cir.1997).   Accordingly, Patent Owner requests that you produce sales information (U.S. and 
`worldwide) under Petitioner’s routine discovery obligations per Rule 42.51(b)(1)(iii) for the following products 
`of Petitioner: 
`
` HomePod and HomePod Mini (for IPR2021‐00255 and IPR2021‐00600)
`
` Beats PowerBeats Pro (for IPR2021‐00305 and IPR2021‐00679)
`
` Apple AirPods 1st Generation, Apple AirPods 2nd Generation and AirPods Pro (for IPR2021‐00381,
`IPR2021‐00546, IPR2021‐00592, IPR2021‐00626, IPR2021‐00686, and IPR2021‐00693).
`
`The sales information should include sales by year by product since the first date of sale of each above‐
`identified product.  Petitioner’s response should also include any and all additional documents and 
`information inconsistent with Petitioner’s positions. 
`
`Please confirm promptly that Petitioner will produce the routine discovery requested above by August 13, 
`2021.  If you have questions or issues with this request, we are available to meet and confer this week. 
`
`3
`
`

`

`Mark Knedeisen
`K&L Gates LLP
`210 Sixth Avenue
`Pittsburgh, PA 15222
`Phone: 412.355.6342
`Fax: 412.355.6501
`mark.knedeisen@klgates.com
`www.klgates.com 
`
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`this message is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please contact me at Mark.Knedeisen@klgates.com.-4
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