In the Matter of:
`Bose Corp. vs
`Koss Corp.
`
`Joseph C. McAlexander, III
`November 11, 2021
`
`Bose Exhibit 1011
`Bose v. Koss
`IPR2021-00297
`
`
`Bose Corp. vs
`Koss Corp.
`
`Joseph C. McAlexander, III
`November 11, 2021
`
`Bose Exhibit 1011
`Bose v. Koss
`IPR2021-00297
`
`
`
`Bose Corp. vs
`Bose Corp. vs
`Koss Corp.
`Koss Corp.
`
`Joseph C. McAlexander, III
`Joseph C. McAlexander, III
`November 11, 2021
`
`·1· · · · UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`
`·2· · · · · · · · · ·-------------------
`
`·3· · · · BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
`·4· · · · · · · · · ·-------------------
`
`·5· · · · · · · · · · BOSE CORPORATION,
`
`·6· · · · · · · · · · · Petitioner,
`
`·7· · · · · · · · · · · · · ·v.
`
`·8· · · · · · · · · · KOSS CORPORATION,
`
`·9· · · · · · · · · · · Patent Owner.
`
`10· · · · · · · · · ·-------------------
`
`11· · · · · · · · ·Case No. IPR2021-00297
`
`12· · · · · · · · · Patent No. 10,368,155
`
`13· · · · · · · · · ·-------------------
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17· · · · ·DEPOSITION OF JOSEPH C. MCALEXANDER, III
`
`18· · · · · · · · · ·Conducted Remotely
`
`19· · · · · · · · · · ·November 11, 2021
`
`20· · · · · · · · ·9:15 a.m. to 11:19 a.m.
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24· Reporter:· Laurie J. Berg, CCR, RPR, CRR, CLR, CER
`
`
`O'Brien & Levine Court Reporting SolutionsO'Brien & Levine Court Reporting Solutions
`
`888.825.3376 - production@court-reporting.com888.825.3376 - production@court-reporting.com
`
`·
`
`
`
`Bose Corp. vs
`Bose Corp. vs
`Koss Corp.
`Koss Corp.
`
`Joseph C. McAlexander, III
`Joseph C. McAlexander, III
`November 11, 2021
`2
`
`·1· · · · · A P P E A R A N C E S
`
`·2
`
`·3· ·Michael N. Rader, Esquire
`
`·4· ·Gregory S. Nieberg, Esquire
`
`·5· ·WOLF, GREENFIELD & SACKS, P.C.
`
`·6· ·600 Atlantic Avenue
`
`·7· ·Boston, Massachusetts· 02210
`
`·8· ·617.720.3500
`
`·9· ·michael.rader@wolfgreenfield.com
`
`10· ·gregory.nieberg@wolfgreenfield.com
`
`11· ·(Present via videoconference.)
`
`12· ·COUNSEL FOR PETITIONER
`
`13
`
`14· ·Mark G. Knedeisen, Esquire
`
`15· ·Michelle L. Weaver, Esquire
`
`16· ·K&L GATES LLP
`
`17· ·K&L Gates Center
`
`18· ·210 Sixth Avenue
`
`19· ·Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania· 15222-2618
`
`20· ·412.355.6500
`
`21· ·mark.knedeisen@klgates.com
`
`22· ·michelle.weaver@klgates.com
`
`23· ·(Present via videoconference.)
`
`24· ·COUNSEL FOR PATENT OWNER
`
`
`O'Brien & Levine Court Reporting SolutionsO'Brien & Levine Court Reporting Solutions
`
`888.825.3376 - production@court-reporting.com888.825.3376 - production@court-reporting.com
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`Page 2
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`
`
`Bose Corp. vs
`Bose Corp. vs
`Koss Corp.
`Koss Corp.
`
`Joseph C. McAlexander, III
`Joseph C. McAlexander, III
`November 11, 2021
`3
`
`·1· · · · · · · · · · · · I N D E X
`
`·2
`
`·3· DEPONENT:· JOSEPH C. MCALEXANDER, III
`
`·4· · · · · · ·(Present via videoconference.)
`
`·5· EXAMINATION· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·PAGE
`
`·6· (BY ATTORNEY RADER)· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 7
`
`·7· (BY ATTORNEY KNEDEISEN)· · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·79
`
`·8
`
`·9· · · · · · · · · · ·E X H I B I T S
`
`10· NO.· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·PAGE
`
`11· Exhibit 1101· Final Written Decision, Honeywell
`
`12· · · · · · · · International, Inc. v. Allure Energy,
`
`13· · · · · · · · Inc., Case IPR2015-01253 (28 pages)· ·29
`
`14· Exhibit 1102· Final Written Decision, Silergy
`
`15· · · · · · · · Corporation v. Monolithic Power
`
`16· · · · · · · · Systems, Inc., Case IPR2015-00803
`
`17· · · · · · · · (46 pages)· · · · · · · · · · · · · · 68
`
`18· Exhibit 1103· Final Written Decision, Silergy
`
`19· · · · · · · · Corporation v. Monolithic Power
`
`20· · · · · · · · Systems, Inc., Case IPR2015-00804
`
`21· · · · · · · · (27 pages)· · · · · · · · · · · · · · 71
`
`22· Exhibit 1104· Final Written Decision, Gordon*Howard
`
`23· · · · · · · · Associates, Inc. v. LunarEye, Inc.,
`
`24· · · · · · · · Case IPR2014-01213 (31 pages)· · · · ·76
`
`
`O'Brien & Levine Court Reporting SolutionsO'Brien & Levine Court Reporting Solutions
`
`888.825.3376 - production@court-reporting.com888.825.3376 - production@court-reporting.com
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`Page 3
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`
`
`Bose Corp. vs
`Bose Corp. vs
`Koss Corp.
`Koss Corp.
`
`Joseph C. McAlexander, III
`Joseph C. McAlexander, III
`November 11, 2021
`4
`
`·1· · · · · · · · · · ·E X H I B I T S
`
`·2· · · · · · · · · · · ·(continued)
`
`·3· NO.· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·PAGE
`
`·4
`
`·5· · · · (Original exhibits marked electronically
`
`·6· · · · · and retained with the transcript.)
`
`·7
`
`·8· · P R E V I O U S L Y - M A R K E D· E X H I B I T S
`
`·9· BOSE EXHIBIT NO.
`
`10· Exhibit 1001· United States Patent US 10,368,155 B2,
`
`11· · · · · · · · Jul. 30, 2019, Koss et al.
`
`12· Exhibit 1016· United States Patent Application
`
`13· · · · · · · · Publication US 2007/0165875 A1,
`
`14· · · · · · · · Jul. 19, 2007, Rezvani et al.
`
`15· Exhibit 1020· United States Patent Application
`
`16· · · · · · · · Publication US 2008/0076489 A1,
`
`17· · · · · · · · Mar. 27, 2008, Rosener et al.
`
`18· Exhibit 1021· United States Patent US 7,457,649 B1,
`
`19· · · · · · · · Nov. 25, 2008, Wilson
`
`20· Exhibit 1022· United States Patent Application
`
`21· · · · · · · · Publication US 2003/0223604 A1,
`
`22· · · · · · · · Dec. 4, 2003, Nakagawa
`
`23
`
`24
`
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`O'Brien & Levine Court Reporting SolutionsO'Brien & Levine Court Reporting Solutions
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`Page 4
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`
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`Bose Corp. vs
`Bose Corp. vs
`Koss Corp.
`Koss Corp.
`
`Joseph C. McAlexander, III
`Joseph C. McAlexander, III
`November 11, 2021
`5
`
`·1· · P R E V I O U S L Y - M A R K E D· E X H I B I T S
`
`·2· · · · · · · · · · · ·(continued)
`
`·3· NO.
`
`·4· Exhibit 2023· Declaration of Joseph C. McAlexander
`
`·5· · · · · · · · III, August 27, 2021, KOSS-2023
`
`·6· · · · · · · · IPR2021-00297 (68 pages)
`
`·7
`
`·8· · · · · ·D O C U M E N T S· R E V I E W E D
`
`·9· DESCRIPTION
`
`10· · · · · · · · Paper No. 02, Petition for Inter Partes
`
`11· · · · · · · · Review, 12/07/2020
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
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`16
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`17
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`18
`
`19
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`20
`
`21
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`22
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`23
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`24
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`Page 5
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`YVer1f
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`
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`Bose Corp. vs
`Bose Corp. vs
`Koss Corp.
`Koss Corp.
`
`Joseph C. McAlexander, III
`Joseph C. McAlexander, III
`November 11, 2021
`6
`
`·1· · · · · · · · · P R O C E E D I N G S
`
`·2
`
`·3· · · · · · · · MADAM COURT REPORTER:· This is Laurie
`
`·4· Berg.· I am a Registered Professional Reporter and a
`
`·5· Certified Realtime Reporter with the National Court
`
`·6· Reporters Association, a Certified eDepoze Reporter,
`
`·7· as well as a Certified Court Reporter with the State
`
`·8· of New Hampshire.· I am a Notary Public in the State
`
`·9· of New Hampshire and the Commonwealth of
`
`10· Massachusetts.
`
`11· · · · · ·The attorneys participating in this
`
`12· proceeding acknowledge that I am not physically
`
`13· present in the proceeding room, nor am I physically
`
`14· present with the witness, and that I will be reporting
`
`15· this proceeding remotely via videoconference.
`
`16· · · · · ·They further acknowledge that, in lieu of an
`
`17· oath administered in person, the witness will verbally
`
`18· declare his testimony in this matter under the penalty
`
`19· of perjury.
`
`20· · · · · ·The parties and their counsel consent to this
`
`21· arrangement and waive any objections to this manner of
`
`22· reporting the proceeding.
`
`23· · · · · ·Will the attorneys now please indicate your
`
`24· agreement by stating your name and your agreement on
`
`
`O'Brien & Levine Court Reporting SolutionsO'Brien & Levine Court Reporting Solutions
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`Page 6
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`YVer1f
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`Bose Corp. vs
`Bose Corp. vs
`Koss Corp.
`Koss Corp.
`
`Joseph C. McAlexander, III
`Joseph C. McAlexander, III
`November 11, 2021
`7
`
`·1· the record, after which I will swear in the witness
`
`·2· and we may begin.
`
`·3· · · · · · · · MR. RADER:· My name is Michael Rader from
`
`·4· Wolf, Greenfield on behalf of Bose.· My colleague Greg
`
`·5· Nieberg from Wolf, Greenfield is also on the line, and
`
`·6· we agree.
`
`·7· · · · · · · · MR. KNEDEISEN:· This is Mark Knedeisen
`
`·8· from K&L Gates, Michelle Weaver is here with me, we
`
`·9· represent the Patent Owner, and we agree.
`
`10· · · · · · · · (Deponent sworn.)
`
`11· · · · · · · · MADAM COURT REPORTER:· Thank you very
`
`12· much.· You may proceed.
`
`13
`
`14· · · · · · · ·JOSEPH C. MCALEXANDER, III
`
`15
`
`16· · · · · ·having been satisfactorily identified and
`
`17· duly sworn remotely by the Notary Public, was examined
`
`18· and testified as follows:
`
`19· · · · · · · · · · DIRECT EXAMINATION
`
`20· · · · · ·BY MR. RADER:
`
`21· · · Q.· ·Mr. McAlexander, I understand you have a
`
`22· Bachelor of Science in electrical engineering from
`
`23· North Carolina State University?
`
`24· · · A.· ·Yes.· Yes, sir, that's correct.
`
`
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`YVer1f
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`Bose Corp. vs
`Bose Corp. vs
`Koss Corp.
`Koss Corp.
`
`Joseph C. McAlexander, III
`Joseph C. McAlexander, III
`November 11, 2021
`8
`
`·1· · · Q.· ·Okay.· What year did you receive that degree?
`
`·2· · · A.· ·1969.
`
`·3· · · Q.· ·Okay.· And then, your declaration said that
`
`·4· you also studied neuroscience at the University of
`
`·5· Texas; is that right?
`
`·6· · · A.· ·Yes.· Yes, that's correct.
`
`·7· · · Q.· ·And when did you do that?
`
`·8· · · · · · · · THE DEPONENT:· (Coughs.)· Excuse me.
`
`·9· · · A.· ·It was 1976 to 1978.
`
`10· · · Q.· ·Did you receive a degree in neuroscience?
`
`11· · · A.· ·No, I did not.
`
`12· · · Q.· ·Okay.· Do you have any post-high school
`
`13· degrees other than your bachelor's degree from the --
`
`14· North Carolina State University?
`
`15· · · A.· ·No, I do not.
`
`16· · · Q.· ·Okay.· I understand from your declaration
`
`17· that you have experience designing circuits; is that
`
`18· right?
`
`19· · · A.· ·Yes, that's correct.
`
`20· · · Q.· ·And you've also designed random access
`
`21· memories, charged coupled devices and shift registers?
`
`22· · · A.· ·I have, yes.
`
`23· · · Q.· ·Have you ever designed a headphone?
`
`24· · · A.· ·Not a headphone, no.
`
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`YVer1f
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`Bose Corp. vs
`Bose Corp. vs
`Koss Corp.
`Koss Corp.
`
`Joseph C. McAlexander, III
`Joseph C. McAlexander, III
`November 11, 2021
`9
`
`·1· · · Q.· ·Have you ever worked for a company that
`
`·2· designed or made headphones?
`
`·3· · · A.· ·No, I have not.
`
`·4· · · Q.· ·Other than litigation consulting, have you
`
`·5· ever done any professional work for a company that
`
`·6· designs or makes headphones?
`
`·7· · · A.· ·They may, but I have not worked on any
`
`·8· specific projects that are related to the headphone.
`
`·9· · · Q.· ·Okay.· Do you know what a diotic headphone
`
`10· is?
`
`11· · · · · · · · MR. RADER:· And that's spelled
`
`12· D-I-O-T-I-C.
`
`13· · · A.· ·No.
`
`14· · · Q.· ·And do you know what a dichotic headphone is?
`
`15· · · · · · · · MR. RADER:· D-I-C-H-O-T-I-C.
`
`16· · · A.· ·No.
`
`17· · · Q.· ·Do you know what a supra-aural earphone is?
`
`18· · · · · · · · MR. RADER:· S-U-P-R-A, dash, A-U-R-A-L.
`
`19· · · A.· ·I know what the aural ear -- earphone is, one
`
`20· that fits in that particular part of the year.· Supra
`
`21· -- I -- I do not -- I can't define it specifically,
`
`22· no.
`
`23· · · Q.· ·Okay.· Do you know what a circum-aural
`
`24· earphone is?
`
`
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`Bose Corp. vs
`Bose Corp. vs
`Koss Corp.
`Koss Corp.
`
`Joseph C. McAlexander, III
`Joseph C. McAlexander, III
`November 11, 2021
`10
`
`·1· · · · · · · · MR. RADER:· C-I-R-C-U-M, dash, A-U-R-A-L.
`
`·2· · · A.· ·Well, a circum goes around.· It goes around
`
`·3· the particular ear area.
`
`·4· · · Q.· ·Okay.· And what is a monaural earphone?
`
`·5· · · · · · · · MR. RADER:· M-O-N-A-U-R-A-L.
`
`·6· · · A.· ·That is only receiving one frequency or one
`
`·7· -- one particular channel.
`
`·8· · · Q.· ·Okay.· All right.· Let's talk about
`
`·9· networking for a moment.
`
`10· · · · · ·What -- what professional experience do you
`
`11· have with computer networking?
`
`12· · · A.· ·I have a number of patents in the -- the
`
`13· Wi-Fi space and -- and other wireless mechanisms.· So
`
`14· I have -- I have networking experience in GPS,
`
`15· conversion of GPS into CDMA.· CDMA also -- I -- I've
`
`16· also got experience in conversion into -- to paging,
`
`17· as well as Wi-Fi and Bluetooth.· So I've got
`
`18· experience in -- in that, based upon the patents that
`
`19· I have and the contracts that I had established with
`
`20· those patents.· I --
`
`21· · · Q.· ·Are those -- sorry, I don't want to interrupt
`
`22· you.· Go ahead.
`
`23· · · A.· ·No.· No, you go ahead.· You go ahead and ask
`
`24· the question.
`
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`Bose Corp. vs
`Bose Corp. vs
`Koss Corp.
`Koss Corp.
`
`Joseph C. McAlexander, III
`Joseph C. McAlexander, III
`November 11, 2021
`11
`
`·1· · · Q.· ·I was just going to ask you, the -- the
`
`·2· patents that you were referring to in your answer a
`
`·3· moment ago, are those patents on which you are a named
`
`·4· inventor?
`
`·5· · · A.· ·Yes, that's correct.
`
`·6· · · Q.· ·I understand you're being paid an hourly rate
`
`·7· for your work on this matter?
`
`·8· · · A.· ·Yes, that's correct.
`
`·9· · · Q.· ·What is your hourly rate?
`
`10· · · A.· ·Five hundred seventy-five dollars.
`
`11· · · Q.· ·I take it you -- you carefully studied the --
`
`12· the patent that's being challenged here at U.S. Patent
`
`13· Number 10,368,155?
`
`14· · · A.· ·Yes, I did.
`
`15· · · Q.· ·Do you recall that patent discussing three
`
`16· different earphone form factors, the in-ear, on-ear
`
`17· and over-ear form factors?
`
`18· · · A.· ·Yes.
`
`19· · · · · · · · MR. KNEDEISEN:· Objection to form.
`
`20· · · A.· ·Yes, the -- all three were discussed.
`
`21· · · Q.· ·Okay.· And are you familiar with those three
`
`22· earphone form factors?
`
`23· · · A.· ·Yes.
`
`24· · · · · · · · MR. KNEDEISEN:· Objection to form.
`
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`Joseph C. McAlexander, III
`Joseph C. McAlexander, III
`November 11, 2021
`12
`
`·1· · · · · · · · MR. RADER:· All right.· I'm going to
`
`·2· introduce the first exhibit now, Exhibit 1022.
`
`·3· · · · · ·(Pause.)
`
`·4· · · · · ·BY MR. RADER:
`
`·5· · · Q.· ·If you go into the official exhibits folder,
`
`·6· you should see Exhibit 1022, which is the Nakagawa
`
`·7· reference.
`
`·8· · · · · ·Please let me know when -- when you have that
`
`·9· open.
`
`10· · · A.· ·(Deponent viewing exhibit.)· I have it open.
`
`11· · · Q.· ·Okay.· And I know we got instructions from
`
`12· the court reporter.
`
`13· · · · · ·Are you -- are you able to use the arrows to
`
`14· -- to scroll through the reference?
`
`15· · · A.· ·(Deponent viewing exhibit.)· It appears the
`
`16· arrows go left to right.· Yes, I -- I have that
`
`17· ability.
`
`18· · · Q.· ·Okay.· And the Nakagawa reference,
`
`19· Exhibit 1022, is -- is another document that you
`
`20· studied in the course of your work on the case?
`
`21· · · A.· ·Yes, that's correct.
`
`22· · · Q.· ·Of the three earphone form factors we just
`
`23· mentioned from the '155 patent, which of those three
`
`24· form factors does the Nakagawa reference disclose?
`
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`Joseph C. McAlexander, III
`Joseph C. McAlexander, III
`November 11, 2021
`13
`
`·1· · · A.· ·Well, the one that Nakagawa discloses is --
`
`·2· it has -- at least symbolically, it looks like it's
`
`·3· two earpieces.· Now, whether or not that fits in the
`
`·4· -- in the outer part of the ear or whether it fits
`
`·5· inside, it's -- it's impossible to say.· It's -- it's
`
`·6· a diagram.· But it does not show any indication of
`
`·7· fitting over or around the ear.
`
`·8· · · Q.· ·So is there any indication from the drawings
`
`·9· or the text in Nakagawa whether the earphones that it
`
`10· discloses are in-ear, over-ear or on-ear?
`
`11· · · · · · · · MR. KNEDEISEN:· Objection; form.
`
`12· · · A.· ·I thought I had answered that question.
`
`13· · · · · ·But the only thing that -- that is shown
`
`14· diagrammatically is the reference to what is shown
`
`15· as 111.· And 111 represents a -- a wired attachment of
`
`16· -- of the earpieces that goes back into the -- to the
`
`17· black box.· It's called the wireless audio output
`
`18· apparatus.· And the only identification they -- they
`
`19· give in the patent, as I recall, to the 111, it's just
`
`20· identified as a headphone, but without any description
`
`21· as to more than what it is.
`
`22· · · · · ·But, as I said, symbolically, the only thing
`
`23· it's showing is two headphones, like -- best
`
`24· appearance would be like what -- what one passes out
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`Bose Corp. vs
`Bose Corp. vs
`Koss Corp.
`Koss Corp.
`
`Joseph C. McAlexander, III
`Joseph C. McAlexander, III
`November 11, 2021
`14
`
`·1· to a -- a person that's flying on an airplane.
`
`·2· · · Q.· ·So it doesn't tell you whether it's in-ear,
`
`·3· over-ear or on-ear; is that right?
`
`·4· · · · · · · · MR. KNEDEISEN:· Objection to form.
`
`·5· · · A.· ·Well, there's certainly less -- less --
`
`·6· there's a lack of specificity.· It's just something
`
`·7· that's wired into an apparatus, and they -- I don't
`
`·8· recall it giving any more specificity than that.
`
`·9· · · Q.· ·Okay.· All right.· We can -- we can close
`
`10· Nakagawa for now.
`
`11· · · · · ·Do you recall in your declaration using the
`
`12· phrase "completely wireless design"?
`
`13· · · A.· ·I recall referring to something that is
`
`14· completely wireless as compared to something that is a
`
`15· -- that is -- is attached to some part that's worn by
`
`16· the user, yes.
`
`17· · · Q.· ·Okay.· And so maybe you -- you've partially
`
`18· answered the next question, but just to make sure,
`
`19· when you use the phrase "completely wireless design"
`
`20· in your declaration, what -- what do you mean by that?
`
`21· · · · · · · · MR. KNEDEISEN:· Objection to form.
`
`22· · · A.· ·Well, what I'm referring to there, is -- is
`
`23· more in line with what the -- what the Koss patent
`
`24· requires.· And that is a -- a wireless apparatus, a
`
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`Bose Corp. vs
`Bose Corp. vs
`Koss Corp.
`Koss Corp.
`
`Joseph C. McAlexander, III
`Joseph C. McAlexander, III
`November 11, 2021
`15
`
`·1· wireless -- see, what the claim -- if I looked at the
`
`·2· claim, for instance, it would be a -- a -- a headphone
`
`·3· assembly, and in that headphone assembly, the wireless
`
`·4· components are a part of that headphone assembly.
`
`·5· · · · · ·It's differentiated from, for instance, the
`
`·6· prior art, where you had a -- a earbud or some type of
`
`·7· attachment that would be wire -- wired and then
`
`·8· connected through wires to a -- a portable device that
`
`·9· you would wear, put in your pocket or affix to your
`
`10· belt.· And -- and that's what I mean when I say
`
`11· "wearing something."· And so that would be the prior
`
`12· art.
`
`13· · · · · ·So the wireless -- the completely wireless
`
`14· would be one in which the headphone itself contains
`
`15· all of what's required for the communication.
`
`16· · · · · · · · MR. RADER:· All right.· Let me introduce
`
`17· another document.
`
`18· · · · · ·(Pause.)
`
`19· · · · · ·BY MR. RADER:
`
`20· · · Q.· ·I have now introduced Exhibit 1020, which is
`
`21· the Rosener reference.
`
`22· · · · · ·Let me know when you've got that up.
`
`23· · · A.· ·(Deponent viewing exhibit.)· All right. I
`
`24· have the Rosener reference, which ends in 6489, patent
`
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`Bose Corp. vs
`Bose Corp. vs
`Koss Corp.
`Koss Corp.
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`·1· publication.
`
`Joseph C. McAlexander, III
`Joseph C. McAlexander, III
`November 11, 2021
`16
`
`·2· · · Q.· ·Okay.· Great.· And this is another reference
`
`·3· that you studied in your work on the case?
`
`·4· · · A.· ·Yes, it is.
`
`·5· · · Q.· ·All right.· Do you agree that Rosener
`
`·6· discloses earbuds?
`
`·7· · · A.· ·Yes.
`
`·8· · · Q.· ·Okay.· And those earbuds are not connected to
`
`·9· one another by a wire; is that right?
`
`10· · · A.· ·Well, it discloses some earbuds that are --
`
`11· that are connected by a wire.· It's because it goes
`
`12· through some representation of the prior art as well.
`
`13· · · Q.· ·But does Rosener disclose, on the front page,
`
`14· earbuds that are not connected to one another by a
`
`15· wire?
`
`16· · · A.· ·(Deponent viewing exhibit.)· Yes, Rosener
`
`17· does.
`
`18· · · Q.· ·And -- and, in that same depiction, the
`
`19· earbuds are also not connected to any other device by
`
`20· a wire; is that right?
`
`21· · · A.· ·(Deponent viewing exhibit.)· It appears that
`
`22· way, yes.
`
`23· · · Q.· ·Would you agree that Rosener discloses a
`
`24· completely wireless design?
`
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`Bose Corp. vs
`Bose Corp. vs
`Koss Corp.
`Koss Corp.
`
`Joseph C. McAlexander, III
`Joseph C. McAlexander, III
`November 11, 2021
`17
`
`·1· · · A.· ·Rosener -- Rosener discloses a type of a
`
`·2· wireless design.
`
`·3· · · Q.· ·And when you use the phrase "completely
`
`·4· wireless design" in your declaration, would that
`
`·5· accurately describe the earbuds in Rosener?
`
`·6· · · · · · · · MR. KNEDEISEN:· Objection; form.
`
`·7· · · A.· ·In a general sense, it is a -- it is
`
`·8· wireless.· In terms of whether or not it is a
`
`·9· completely wireless, according to the claim invention
`
`10· of Koss, the answer is no.
`
`11· · · Q.· ·And why is that answer no?
`
`12· · · A.· ·I think my declaration expresses that.· But
`
`13· there are multiple different things that -- that do
`
`14· not take place or -- or are not covered within the
`
`15· Rosener -- Rosener reference that are not consistent
`
`16· with emulating or providing all of what is required by
`
`17· the Koss claims.
`
`18· · · · · · · · MR. RADER:· All right.· Let me introduce
`
`19· the Wilson reference.
`
`20· · · · · ·(Pause.)
`
`21· · · · · ·BY MR. RADER:
`
`22· · · Q.· ·All right.· I've introduced Exhibit 1021,
`
`23· which is the Wilson reference.
`
`24· · · · · ·Let me know when you have that.
`
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`Bose Corp. vs
`Bose Corp. vs
`Koss Corp.
`Koss Corp.
`
`Joseph C. McAlexander, III
`Joseph C. McAlexander, III
`November 11, 2021
`18
`
`·1· · · A.· ·(Deponent viewing exhibit.)· Okay.· I have
`
`·2· the Wilson reference in front of me.
`
`·3· · · Q.· ·Okay.· Would you agree that Wilson discloses
`
`·4· two earphones that are connected to one another?
`
`·5· · · · · · · · MR. KNEDEISEN:· Objection to form.
`
`·6· · · A.· ·Yes.· I would agree with that.
`
`·7· · · Q.· ·All right.· Does Wilson disclose a completely
`
`·8· wireless design?
`
`·9· · · A.· ·In the general sense -- let me look at the a
`
`10· -- succeeding pages here.
`
`11· · · · · · · · MR. KNEDEISEN:· Objection to form.
`
`12· · · A.· ·(Deponent viewing exhibit.)· I would say yes,
`
`13· he -- the same answer as I gave previously.· This --
`
`14· this particular patent, the Wilson patent, does
`
`15· describe a type of a wireless design.· Specifically, I
`
`16· believe, he refers to it as a wireless headset.
`
`17· · · · · · · · MR. RADER:· All right.· I'd like to
`
`18· introduce now a copy of the petition.
`
`19· · · · · ·(Pause.)
`
`20· · · · · ·BY MR. RADER:
`
`21· · · Q.· ·Let me know when you're able to open the
`
`22· petition up.
`
`23· · · A.· ·(Deponent viewing exhibit.)· I have the
`
`24· petition in front of me.
`
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`Bose Corp. vs
`Bose Corp. vs
`Koss Corp.
`Koss Corp.
`
`Joseph C. McAlexander, III
`Joseph C. McAlexander, III
`November 11, 2021
`19
`
`·1· · · Q.· ·Okay.· If you could, turn to page
`
`·2· Romanette iv in the table of contents.
`
`·3· · · · · · · · MR. KNEDEISEN:· What page is that?
`
`·4· · · · · · · · MR. RADER:· It's the small four -- the
`
`·5· small I and small V.· I called it a Romanette. I
`
`·6· don't know if that's the right term, but...
`
`·7· · · A.· ·It sounds good.
`
`·8· · · Q.· ·Okay.· Are you there?
`
`·9· · · A.· ·(Deponent viewing exhibit.)· All right.· I'm
`
`10· on that table of contents page, it starts with
`
`11· Number 3, Ground 2C.
`
`12· · · Q.· ·Okay.· Right.· So, toward the bottom of the
`
`13· page, do you see that, in the petition, Ground 3A
`
`14· involves a -- a combination of the Nakagawa reference
`
`15· that we looked at and the Wilson reference that we
`
`16· looked at?· Do you recall that?
`
`17· · · A.· ·Yes, I do.
`
`18· · · Q.· ·And Wilson is the one where the earphones are
`
`19· connected to one another?
`
`20· · · · · · · · MR. KNEDEISEN:· Objection to form.
`
`21· · · A.· ·That -- that is correct.
`
`22· · · Q.· ·All right.· Now, if you could advance two
`
`23· pages to Page vi in the table of contents --
`
`24· · · A.· ·(Deponent complied.)· Okay.· I'm there.
`
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`Bose Corp. vs
`Bose Corp. vs
`Koss Corp.
`Koss Corp.
`
`Joseph C. McAlexander, III
`Joseph C. McAlexander, III
`November 11, 2021
`20
`
`·1· · · Q.· ·-- at the top of the page, you see that
`
`·2· Ground 3B involves the combination of Nakagawa and
`
`·3· Rosener.
`
`·4· · · · · ·Do you recall that?
`
`·5· · · A.· ·Yes, I do.
`
`·6· · · Q.· ·Okay.· And Rosener is the reference that
`
`·7· discloses the earbuds that are not connected to one
`
`·8· another or any other device with a wire; is that
`
`·9· right?
`
`10· · · A.· ·That is --
`
`11· · · · · · · · MR. KNEDEISEN:· Objection to form.
`
`12· · · A.· ·-- that is correct.
`
`13· · · · · · · · MR. RADER:· Okay.· All right.· Now I'd
`
`14· like to introduce your declaration.
`
`15· · · · · ·(Pause.)
`
`16· · · · · ·BY MR. RADER:
`
`17· · · Q.· ·All right.· Let me know when you've got your
`
`18· declaration up.
`
`19· · · A.· ·(Deponent viewing exhibit.)· Okay.· I've got
`
`20· it in front of me.
`
`21· · · Q.· ·Okay.· If you could just turn to your table
`
`22· of contents, if you would.
`
`23· · · A.· ·(Deponent complied.)· Okay.· I have that in
`
`24· front of me, Page 2.
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`YVer1f
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`Bose Corp. vs
`Bose Corp. vs
`Koss Corp.
`Koss Corp.
`
`Joseph C. McAlexander, III
`Joseph C. McAlexander, III
`November 11, 2021
`21
`
`·1· · · Q.· ·Okay.· So do you see Section VI of your table
`
`·2· of contents?
`
`·3· · · A.· ·(Deponent viewing exhibit.)· Yes, I do.
`
`·4· · · Q.· ·All right.· So Section VI of -- of your
`
`·5· declaration addresses whether Claim 1 of the '155
`
`·6· patent would have been obvious in view of the
`
`·7· Nakagawa-Rosener combination; is that right?
`
`·8· · · · · · · · MR. KNEDEISEN:· Objection to form.
`
`·9· · · A.· ·That is correct.
`
`10· · · Q.· ·Okay.· And that was Ground 3B in the petition
`
`11· that we just looked at?
`
`12· · · A.· ·That -- that is correct.· That is the heading
`
`13· that was used.
`
`14· · · Q.· ·Okay.· So --
`
`15· · · A.· ·I do know -- I do know -- recall doing the
`
`16· section, and also -- I did address also the Wilson
`
`17· combination.
`
`18· · · Q.· ·All right.· So even though it's not
`
`19· referenced here with a heading, it's your belief that
`
`20· your declaration addresses Ground 3A also?
`
`21· · · A.· ·Yes.
`
`22· · · · · · · · MR. KNEDEISEN:· Objection to form.
`
`23· · · · · · · · MADAM COURT REPORTER:· Sir, did you
`
`24· answer?· Because if you did, I did not hear you.
`
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`Bose Corp. vs
`Bose Corp. vs
`Koss Corp.
`Koss Corp.
`
`Joseph C. McAlexander, III
`Joseph C. McAlexander, III
`November 11, 2021
`22
`
`·1· · · · · · · · THE DEPONENT:· Yes.
`
`·2· · · · · · · · MADAM COURT REPORTER:· Thank you.
`
`·3· · · · · · · · THE DEPONENT:· Yes, and yes, I answered.
`
`·4· · · · · · · · MADAM COURT REPORTER:· Okay.
`
`·5· · · · · ·BY MR. RADER:
`
`·6· · · Q.· ·All right.· Let's turn to -- if you could,
`
`·7· flip ahead to Paragraph 34 of your declaration, which
`
`·8· starts on Page 16 of the PDF.· But it's -- it's
`
`·9· labeled in your declaration Page 14, but I'm -- I'm
`
`10· looking specifically at Paragraph 34.
`
`11· · · · · ·Let me know when you're there.
`
`12· · · A.· ·(Deponent viewing exhibit.)· All right.· I'm
`
`13· on Paragraph 34.
`
`14· · · Q.· ·Now, you say that, "A POSITA," P-O-S-I-T-A,
`
`15· "would not have been motivated to combine Nakagawa and
`
`16· Wilson to achieve a completely wireless design."
`
`17· · · · · ·Do you see that?
`
`18· · · A.· ·(Deponent viewing exhibit.)· I do.
`
`19· · · Q.· ·And then, in the next sentence you note that:
`
`20· Nakagawa's design utilizes a -- a wired connection
`
`21· between the headphones and the audio output apparatus,
`
`22· right?
`
`23· · · A.· ·(Deponent viewing exhibit.)· That is what I
`
`24· stated, yes.
`
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`Bose Corp. vs
`Bose Corp. vs
`Koss Corp.
`Koss Corp.
`
`Joseph C. McAlexander, III
`Joseph C. McAlexander, III
`November 11, 2021
`23
`
`·1· · · Q.· ·All right.· And then the next sentence, which
`
`·2· starts at the bottom of Page 14 and goes to the top of
`
`·3· Page 15, you say, "Incorporating a battery from Wilson
`
`·4· or Rosener into the Nakagawa design does not convert
`
`·5· the Nakagawa design into a completely wireless
`
`·6· design;" is that right?
`
`·7· · · A.· ·(Deponent viewing exhibit.)· That's correct.
`
`·8· · · Q.· ·Now, in the petition, Ground 3B involving
`
`·9· Rosener addresses incorporating not just the battery,
`
`10· but all of the relevant components into each earbud,
`
`11· doesn't it?
`
`12· · · · · · · · MR. KNEDEISEN:· Objection to form.
`
`13· · · A.· ·Can you refer to where the pet -- are you
`
`14· talking about in the petition?
`
`15· · · Q.· ·Yeah.
`
`16· · · A.· ·All right.· Can you refer to me where?
`
`17· · · Q.· ·Sure.
`
`18· · · · · · · · MR. RADER:· Let's pull up the petition.
`
`19· · · · · ·(Pause.)
`
`20· · · · · ·BY MR. RADER:
`
`21· · · Q.· ·Okay.· So if you turn -- if you use the
`
`22· little blue box on the left and type in "93," that
`
`23· will take you to Page 75 of the petition.
`
`24· · · A.· ·(Deponent viewing exhibit.)· Okay.· I -- I
`
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`Bose Corp. vs
`Bose Corp. vs
`Koss Corp.
`Koss Corp.
`
`Joseph C. McAlexander, III
`Joseph C. McAlexander, III
`November 11, 2021
`24
`
`·1· have that in front of me.· Thank you.
`
`·2· · · Q.· ·Okay.· So can you see that this -- at the top
`
`·3· of the page is the section where the petition
`
`·4· discusses Rosener for -- for purposes of Ground --
`
`·5· Ground 3B?
`
`·6· · · A.· ·(Deponent viewing exhibit.)· Yes, I do.
`
`·7· · · Q.· ·All right.· It says, "As relevant to
`
`·8· Ground 3B, Rosener teaches that wireless earphones can
`
`·9· be improved by using two completely wireless earbuds,
`
`10· each with a processor, antenna, communication circuit,
`
`11· and battery."
`
`12· · · · · ·Do you see that?
`
`13· · · A.· ·(Deponent viewing exhibit.)· I see that, yes.
`
`14· · · Q.· ·Okay.· And then the next paragraph, it goes
`
`15· on to say, "POSAs," persons of ordinary skill in the
`
`16· art, "would have had reason to implement Nakagawa's
`
`17· headset using Rosener
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