UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`BOSE CORPORATION,
`Petitioner,
`v.
`KOSS CORPORATION,
`Patent Owner
`IPR2021-00297
`U.S. Patent No. 10,368,155
`
`The virtual deposition of TIM A.
`WILLIAMS, Ph.D., called by the Patent Owner for
`examination, taken before Stephanie A. Battaglia, CSR
`and Notary Public in and for the County of DuPage and
`State of Illinois, on August 2, 2021, at 11:06 a.m.,
`Central Time.
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`BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`BOSE CORPORATION,
`Petitioner,
`v.
`KOSS CORPORATION,
`Patent Owner
`IPR2021-00297
`U.S. Patent No. 10,368,155
`
`The virtual deposition of TIM A.
`WILLIAMS, Ph.D., called by the Patent Owner for
`examination, taken before Stephanie A. Battaglia, CSR
`and Notary Public in and for the County of DuPage and
`State of Illinois, on August 2, 2021, at 11:06 a.m.,
`Central Time.
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`Transcript of Tim A. Williams, Ph.D.
`Conducted on August 2, 2021
`
`2
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`PRESENT: (ALL PARTIES APPEARED VIA ZOOM CONFERENCE)
` WOLF, GREENFIELD & SACKS, P.C.
` BY: MR. GREGORY S. NIEBERG
` MR. NATHAN R. SPEED
` 600 Atlantic Avenue
` Boston, Massachusetts 02210-2206
` (617) 646-8000
` e-mail: GNieberg@wolfgreenfield.com
` Nspeed@wolfgreenfield.com
` appeared on behalf of the Petitioner;
` K&L GATES, LLP
` BY: MR. MARK KNEDEISEN
` MR. RAGAE GHABRIAL
` 210 Sixth Avenue
` Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania 15222
` (412) 355-6500
` e-mail: mark.knedeisen@klgates.com
` ragae.ghabrial@klgates.com
` appeared on behalf of the Patent Owner.
`ALSO PRESENT:
` Mr. Timothy Bryan, on behalf of Bose
` Mr. Dave Schuler, on behalf of Bose
` Mr. Lucien Newell, Technician
` Planet Depos
` Ms. Stephanie Battaglia, CSR, RMR, CRR
` Planet Depos
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`Conducted on August 2, 2021
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`3
`
` I N D E X
`WITNESS: PAGE
`TIM A. WILLIAMS, Ph.D.
`EXAMINED BY:
`Mr. Knedeisen 6
` E X H I B I T S
`Exhibit 1003 Declaration of 8
` Tim A. Williams, Ph.D.
`Exhibit 1013 Pelland reference 8
`Exhibit 1018 Feder reference 10
`Exhibit 1020 Rosener reference 10
`Exhibit 1021 Wilson reference 9
`Exhibit 1022 Nakagawa reference 9
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`Conducted on August 2, 2021
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`4
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` THE TECHNICIAN: Thank you to everyone
`for attending this proceeding remotely which we
`anticipate will run smoothly.
` Please remember to speak slowly and do
`your best not to talk over one another.
` Please be aware that we are recording
`this proceeding for backup purposes. Any
`off-the-record discussions should be had away from the
`computer.
` Please remember to mute your mic for
`those conversations.
` Please have your video enabled to help
`the reporter identify who is speaking.
` If you are unable to connect with video
`and are connecting via phone please identify yourself
`each time before speaking.
` We will provide a complimentary, unedited
`recording of this deposition with the purchase of
`transcripts.
` I apologize in advance for any
`technical-related interruptions, thank you.
` MS. REPORTER: Here begins the
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`5
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`videoconference deposition of Dr. Tim Williams in the
`matter of Bose Corporation versus Koss Corporation.
` Today's date is August 2, 2021, and the
`time is 11:06 a.m., Central Time.
` My name is Stephanie Battaglia of Planet
`Depos.
` Beginning with the noticing party, will
`counsel please introduce themselves, state whom they
`represent, and stipulate to the swearing in of the
`witness remotely.
` MR. KNEDEISEN: Yes.
` I am Mark Knedeisen on behalf of Patent
`Owner Koss Corporation.
` And also here with me is Regae Ghabrial.
`We are both with K&L Gates.
` MR. NIEBERG: Gregory Nieberg from Wolf
`Greenfield representing the Bose Petitioners.
` And joining me is Nathan Speed from Wolf
`Greenfield and Dave Schuler and Timothy Bryan from the
`Bose Corporation.
` And we consent to the remote deposition
`and swearing in.
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`Conducted on August 2, 2021
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`6
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` TIM A. WILLIAMS, Ph.D.,
`called as a witness herein, having been first duly
`sworn was examined and testified as follows:
` EXAMINATION
` BY MR. KNEDEISEN:
` Q. I guess it's good morning for you,
`correct, Dr. Williams?
` A. Yes, good morning.
` Q. I am Mark Knedeisen. I will be asking
`you questions today.
` Have you been deposed before?
` A. Yes.
` Q. So if you do not understand a question I
`ask or have difficulty hearing it or some type of
`technical problem can you let me know and I will
`either restate the question or rephrase the question?
` A. I will.
` Q. Is there anybody in the room there with
`you?
` A. No.
` Q. Where are you?
` A. My home.
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`7
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` Q. And did you prepare for today's
`deposition?
` A. Yes.
` Q. How did you prepare?
` A. Studied the materials in the case,
`discussed with the attorneys the issues.
` Q. And when did you perform this
`preparation?
` A. Over the past week.
` Q. When was the last time you reviewed your
`declaration in this matter?
` A. Yesterday.
` Q. And are you prepared to testify about the
`opinions you expressed in that declaration?
` A. I am.
` Q. And did you -- when was the last time you
`reviewed the references cited in your declaration?
` A. All of them? I don't understand the
`question.
` Q. When is the last time you -- why don't we
`do this.
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`Conducted on August 2, 2021
`
`8
`
` (Document identified as Exhibit 1003 for
` identification.)
`BY MR. KNEDEISEN:
` Q. Do you have Exhibit 1003?
` A. I do.
` Q. Is that your report in this matter?
` A. It is.
` Q. And do you see I am looking at the Table
`Of Contents, the page ii, Roman Numeral ii, I guess it
`is Roman Numeral ii, do you see towards the top it
`says "Pelland Anticipates All Challenged Claims"?
` A. Yes.
` Q. When was the last time you reviewed the
`Pelland reference?
` A. Yesterday.
` (Document identified as Exhibit 1013 for
` identification.)
`BY MR. KNEDEISEN:
` Q. Just for the record, I believe the
`Pelland reference is Exhibit 1013, is that correct?
` A. That's correct.
` Q. And then your report refers to the
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`9
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`Nakagawa reference, does that ring a bell?
` A. Bell? I don't understand the question.
` Q. Does your report refer to the Nakagawa
`reference?
` A. It does.
` (Document identified as Exhibit 1022 for
` identification.)
`BY MR. KNEDEISEN:
` Q. And that Nakagawa reference is
`Exhibit 1022, correct?
` A. I believe so, yes.
` Q. When was the last time you reviewed the
`Nakagawa reference?
` A. Yesterday.
` (Document identified as Exhibit 1021 for
` identification.)
`BY MR. KNEDEISEN:
` Q. Your report refers to a reference by
`Wilson, which is Exhibit 1021, correct?
` A. Yes.
` Q. And when was the last time you reviewed
`the Wilson reference?
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`10
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` A. Two days ago.
` (Document identified as Exhibit 1020 for
` identification.)
`BY MR. KNEDEISEN:
` Q. Your report refers to the Rosener
`reference, which is Exhibit 1020, is that correct?
` A. Yes.
` Q. When is the last time you reviewed the
`Rosener reference?
` A. Three days ago.
` (Document identified as Exhibit 1018 for
` identification.)
`BY MR. KNEDEISEN:
` Q. Your report refers to the Feder
`reference, which is Exhibit 1018, is that correct?
` A. It does.
` Q. When is the last time you reviewed the
`Feder reference?
` A. Two days ago.
` Q. Do you recall when you were hired by Bose
`in this matter?
` A. I don't.
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`11
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` Q. I take it it was before the time that you
`signed your declaration that's Exhibit 1003, is that
`correct?
` A. That's correct.
` MR. NIEBERG: Object to form.
`BY MR. KNEDEISEN:
` Q. Sorry, I didn't hear that.
` A. Can I have the question again, please?
` Q. Were you contacted by Bose to prepare a
`declaration in this matter prior to the signature date
`on Exhibit 1003?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Do you know when before the signature
`date, Exhibit 1003, that you were contacted by Bose to
`commence preparation of this report?
` A. I don't recall.
` Q. In connection with this IPR what did Bose
`ask you to do?
` A. Review the materials, review the issues
`at hand, and to determine an opinion and to complete a
`report.
` Q. You said review the materials. To what
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`12
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`materials are you referring?
` A. Some of the materials are the ones we
`just went over.
` Q. So Bose gave you the Pelland reference?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Did Bose give you the Nakagawa reference?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Did Bose give you the Wilson reference?
` A. Well, not Bose, it was the attorneys for
`Bose, but, yes.
` Q. Did the attorneys for Bose give you the
`Rosener reference?
` A. Yes.
` Q. And did the attorneys for Bose give you
`the Feder reference?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Do you know how many hours you've spent
`preparing the report that is Exhibit 1003?
` A. I don't recall.
` Q. Can you explain the process by which you
`prepared the report that is Exhibit 1003?
` MR. NIEBERG: And I just want to caution
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`13
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`the witness not to reveal any attorney-client
`communications.
` THE WITNESS: It's my normal process of
`reviewing the materials, discussing with the attorneys
`the oppositions, and forming my opinion and then
`writing the report, signing the report, submitting.
`BY MR. KNEDEISEN:
` Q. Could you turn to Paragraph 36 of your
`report?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Exhibit 1003?
` A. Yes, I am there.
` Q. Do you see a reference to I guess it is
`the fifth line in Exhibit -- fifth line in
`Paragraph 36, a reference to the Casali declaration,
`do you see that?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Do you know when you read the Casali
`declaration?
` A. Before submitting my report.
` Q. Do you know how soon before submitting
`your report?
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`14
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` A. I don't recall.
` Q. Could you turn to Paragraph 21 of your
`report, which is on Page 9, it starts on Page 9, do
`you see Paragraph 21 and 22?
` A. I do.
` Q. What do Paragraphs 21 and 22 pertain to,
`these?
` A. These discuss my understanding of the law
`regarding anticipation.
` Q. And did you apply the law as stated in
`Paragraphs 21 and 22 in your report?
` MR. NIEBERG: Object to form.
` THE WITNESS: My opinion is based on my
`understanding.
`BY MR. KNEDEISEN:
` Q. Is it your understanding that a claim
`needs to recite a novel aspect to be novel?
` MR. NIEBERG: Object to form.
` THE WITNESS: I think that's a legal
`question.
`BY MR. KNEDEISEN:
` Q. If you would turn to paragraphs -- well,
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`15
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`Section B, starting right above Paragraph 23 on
`Page 10 of your declaration, I guess it spans
`Paragraphs 23 to 27, what do those paragraphs pertain
`to?
` MR. NIEBERG: Object to form.
` THE WITNESS: These reflect my
`understanding of the law regarding obviousness.
`BY MR. KNEDEISEN:
` Q. And did you apply this law in the
`preparation of your opinions in your report?
` MR. NIEBERG: Objection, form.
` THE WITNESS: I applied my understanding
`of the law.
`BY MR. KNEDEISEN:
` Q. Does a claim need to recite a novel
`aspect to be nonobvious?
` MR. NIEBERG: Object to form.
` THE WITNESS: I believe that's a legal
`question.
`BY MR. KNEDEISEN:
` Q. Does the claim need to recite a new
`feature to be nonobvious?
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`16
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` MR. NIEBERG: Object to form.
` THE WITNESS: I believe that's a legal
`question.
`BY MR. KNEDEISEN:
` Q. Turn to Paragraph 36 of your report. Do
`you see starting on the fifth line of Paragraph 36 it
`says, "The '155 patent admits that wireless headphone
`assemblies were known and thus the allegedly novel
`aspect is not the assembly itself but rather how it
`functions when communicating over the wireless
`networks." Do you see that?
` A. I do.
` Q. Why did you refer to an allegedly novel
`aspect in paragraph 36?
` A. Because it's not proven that the '155
`claims a novel aspect.
` Q. So does a claim need to recite a novel
`aspect to be novel?
` MR. NIEBERG: Object to form.
` THE WITNESS: I believe that's a legal
`question.
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`17
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`BY MR. KNEDEISEN:
` Q. Did you apply an allegedly novel aspect
`test in your anticipation analysis in your report?
` MR. NIEBERG: Object to form.
` THE WITNESS: I don't recall.
`BY MR. KNEDEISEN:
` Q. Do Paragraphs 21 and 22 in your report
`refer to whether a claim recites an allegedly novel
`aspect?
` A. I don't see the words "novel aspect" in
`those paragraphs.
` Q. What about the words "new feature"?
` MR. NIEBERG: Object to form.
` THE WITNESS: I don't see the words "new
`feature" in Paragraphs 21 and 22.
`BY MR. KNEDEISEN:
` Q. Can you turn to Paragraph 24 of your
`report? And I am looking at the top of Page 11. Do
`you see at the end of the bullet point at the top of
`Page 11 it says, "To my knowledge, the Patent Owner
`has not asserted any secondary considerations with
`respect to the '155 patent at the time of my
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`18
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`submitting this declaration." Do you see that?
` A. Yes.
` Q. If patent owner submits evidence of
`secondary considerations will you reevaluate your
`opinion on obviousness?
` MR. NIEBERG: Object to form.
` THE WITNESS: In this proceeding I am not
`sure about the effect of secondary considerations of
`nonobviousness so I will answer that I do not know.
`BY MR. KNEDEISEN:
` Q. Do you know that Apple AirPods can switch
`data sources automatically?
` MR. NIEBERG: Object to form, scope.
` THE WITNESS: I have not opined on it.
`BY MR. KNEDEISEN:
` Q. I am just asking, are you familiar with
`Apple AirPods?
` A. Somewhat.
` MR. NIEBERG: Form, scope.
`BY MR. KNEDEISEN:
` Q. I couldn't hear the answer.
` A. Somewhat.
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`19
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` Q. Do you own a pair of Apple AirPods?
` A. I do.
` Q. And when did you get those?
` MR. NIEBERG: Same objections.
` THE WITNESS: About two months ago.
`BY MR. KNEDEISEN:
` Q. Do you know that Apple sold more than a
`hundred million pairs of Apple AirPods in 2020?
` MR. NIEBERG: Object to form, scope.
` THE WITNESS: No.
`BY MR. KNEDEISEN:
` Q. Does the fact that Apple had significant
`sales of Apple AirPods affect your obviousness
`analysis in this case?
` MR. NIEBERG: Object to form, scope.
` THE WITNESS: Not that I've opined on.
`BY MR. KNEDEISEN:
` Q. How many sales of Apple AirPods would it
`take to affect your opinion?
` MR. NIEBERG: Object to form, scope.
` THE WITNESS: I don't know.
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`Transcript of Tim A. Williams, Ph.D.
`Conducted on August 2, 2021
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`BY MR. KNEDEISEN:
` Q. If they sold a billion pairs, would that
`affect your opinion?
` MR. NIEBERG: Same objections.
` THE WITNESS: I don't understand the
`question.
`BY MR. KNEDEISEN:
` Q. And what level of commercial success does
`it take for you to reevaluate your opinion of
`obviousness in this matter?
` MR. NIEBERG: Object to form.
` THE WITNESS: It's not a subject that
`I've opined on so I haven't been asked to opine on
`such a thing.
`BY MR. KNEDEISEN:
` Q. Well, I'm asking you now.
` MR. NIEBERG: Form, scope, objection.
` THE WITNESS: I don't know what you are
`asking.
`BY MR. KNEDEISEN:
` Q. What level of commercial success does it
`take for you to reevaluate your opinion of obviousness
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`in this matter?
` MR. NIEBERG: Objection form, scope.
` THE WITNESS: I don't know.
`BY MR. KNEDEISEN:
` Q. Is there any level of commercial success
`that would make you reevaluate your opinion of obvious
`nest in this matter?
` MR. NIEBERG: Object to form.
` THE WITNESS: Well, my opinion is that I
`have not seen an analysis of secondary considerations
`of nonobviousness from the costs side, so my opinion
`is in response to their assertions, so given their
`assertions if there are new assertions made then I
`will form an opinion.
`BY MR. KNEDEISEN:
` Q. If you could turn to Paragraph 26 of your
`report, so on Page 11.
` A. Sorry, I didn't hear that.
` Q. Page 11 and 12.
` A. I am there.
` Q. And what do you express in Paragraph 26?
` MR. NIEBERG: Object to form.
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` THE WITNESS: Some of the aspects -- my
`understanding of some of the aspects of the
`obviousness analysis.
`BY MR. KNEDEISEN:
` Q. The second bullet point says, "Simple
`substitution of one known element for another to
`obtain predictable results." Do you see that?
` A. Yes.
` Q. And what did you mean by a "known
`element" when you wrote that?
` A. Something that was already known in the
`art.
` Q. Do you see right below it says, "Use of a
`known technique to improve similar devices in the same
`way." Do you see that?
` A. Yes.
` Q. And what did you mean by devices when you
`wrote that?
` A. To the extent that these claims cover
`apparatus devices, devices in apparatus form that
`would be a technique which would be applied to those
`devices.
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` Q. Do you consider the word "device" and the
`word "apparatus" to be synonyms?
` MR. NIEBERG: Object to form.
` THE WITNESS: Not at all times.
`BY MR. KNEDEISEN:
` Q. When wouldn't they be synonyms?
` MR. NIEBERG: Object to form.
` THE WITNESS: I don't have an example in
`mind.
`BY MR. KNEDEISEN:
` Q. Would you turn to Paragraph 33 of your
`report, which starts on Page 15.
` A. Yes.
` Q. I am looking at the second sentence,
`which starts at the very end of the fourth line, it
`says, "At different times in the product design and
`development cycle the different teams would work
`independently and at another times in coordination to
`modify the design to fit each other team's constraints
`and desired attributes (e.g., how much the device
`should weigh; the shape of the device and how much
`room was needed for various components and subsystems;
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`the wireless protocol supported by the device, etc.)
`as best as possible." Do you see that sentence?
` A. You read that correctly.
` Q. Do you see where you talk about how much
`devices should weigh and shapes of devices?
` A. I do.
` Q. Do devices have weight?
` MR. NIEBERG: Object to form.
` THE WITNESS: Do devices have weight?
`Well, this is a device, it has weight, so, yes.
`BY MR. KNEDEISEN:
` Q. For the record I think you showed a
`wristwatch, correct?
` A. I did.
` Q. And I take it the wristwatch has shape,
`correct?
` A. Yes.
` Q. And devices have shapes?
` A. They can.
` Q. Are you aware of devices that do not have
`shapes?
` MR. NIEBERG: Object to form.
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` THE WITNESS: I don't have an example in
`mind.
`BY MR. KNEDEISEN:
` Q. So I am going to ask questions about the
`anticipation grounds in your report, which I believe
`are based on Exhibit 1013.
` If you can turn to Paragraph 44 of your
`report, which is on Page 24. Do you have that?
` A. I'm there.
` Q. I am looking at the sentence that starts
`the tenth line, that paragraph, it is about halfway
`down the page, it starts, "Because transitions between
`any two wireless networks (not just transitioning from
`an ad hoc network to an infrastructure), for reasons
`other than losing a network connection, are not within
`the scope of what a POSA would have understood the
`inventors of the priority application to have
`invented." Do you see that?
` A. Yes.
` Q. And I just read a portion of that
`sentence, correct?
` A. You did.
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` Q. And for the record, the word POSA,
`P-O-S-A, what does that refer to?
` A. Person of ordinary skill in the art.
` Q. And your report expressed an opinion of
`the skill level of a person of ordinary skill in the
`art, correct?
` A. It does.
` Q. What was your opinion in your report
`regarding whether the '155 patent claim 1 was entitled
`to the priority date of the applications?
` MR. NIEBERG: Object to form.
` THE WITNESS: Well, I cannot -- I cannot
`decide that issue, that has to be decided by the panel
`or the court -- I have an opinion.
`BY MR. KNEDEISEN:
` Q. You say you have an opinion?
` A. I cannot decide that issue as I
`understand it has to be decided by the panel or the
`court.
` Q. So is it your view that a person of skill
`in the art would consider that the inventors of the
`'155 patent only invent the transitioning from an ad
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`hoc network to an infrastructure network for reasons
`because of the lost network connection?
` MR. NIEBERG: Object to form.
` THE WITNESS: I believe you said that
`correctly.
`BY MR. KNEDEISEN:
` Q. And that's because in your view that's
`how a POSA would read the priority application for the
`'155 application, is that correct?
` MR. NIEBERG: Object to form.
` THE WITNESS: That's correct.
`BY MR. KNEDEISEN:
` Q. And when we refer to the priority
`application for the '155 patent, to what are we
`referring?
` A. Exhibit 1013.
` Q. So if you turn to Exhibit 1013 at Page 5?
` A. PDF Page 5?
` Q. I don't know, but I suspect it is Page 7
`of the PDF.
` A. Okay, native Page 5.
` Q. Yes, native Page 5.
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` A. Okay, I'm there.
` Q. And about Line 17 do you see where it
`says, "For purposes of the description to follow, it
`is assumed that the data source 20 and the earphone 10
`communicate using a Wi-Fi protocol, although the
`invention is not so limited and other wireless
`communication protocols may be used in other
`embodiments of the invention." Do you see that?
` A. I do.
` Q. And it's your view that a person skilled
`in the art would still consider that the inventors of
`the '155 patent only invented the transition from an
`ad hoc network to an infrastructure network for
`purposes -- for reasons due to a lost network
`connection?
` A. That's correct.
` Q. And if you go further down on line -- on
`page 5, native page 5, paragraph that starts at line
`26, it says, "When the earphone 10 and data source 20
`are out of range for the ad hoc wireless network 24,
`that is, when the received signals degrade below the
`threshold minimum signal level, both the earphone 10
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`and the data source 20 may transition automatically to
`communicate over an infrastructure wireless network
`(such as a wireless LAN 30), that is in the range of
`both the earphone 10 and the data source 20 as shown
`in Figure 2B." Do you see that sentence?
` A. I do.
` Q. And it is your opinion that a person
`skilled in the art having read that sentence would
`believe that the inventors of the '155 patent only
`invented transitioning from an ad hoc network to an
`infrastructure for reasons due to a lost network
`connection?
` MR. NIEBERG: Object to form.
` THE WITNESS: Yes, that's correct, yes,
`that's correct.
`BY MR. KNEDEISEN:
` Q. Now, if you turn to Paragraph 176 of your
`report, it is on Page 117.
` A. I am there.
` Q. I have the wrong paragraph, it's not the
`paragraph I meant to refer to.
` A. I am sorry, different paragraph?
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` Q. Yes, I've got to find the right one.
`Page 176.
` Page 176 starts a section about certain
`claims allegedly being obvious over Nakagawa in view
`of Rosener, correct?
` A. Yes.
` Q. It's your view that a person of ordinary
`skill in the art would be able to take Nakagawa
`apparatus 11 and put it in the Rosener's wireless
`earphones, correct?
` MR. NIEBERG: Object to form.
` THE WITNESS: I don't understand the
`words "put it in".
`BY MR. KNEDEISEN:
` Q. What is your view regarding the
`combination of Nakagawa and Rosener relative to claim
`1 of the '155 patent?
` A. Well, that's clearly expressed in the
`report, but it's my understanding that a POSA is not
`required to simply combine the two references as an
`automaton, they have the ability to apply their
`knowledge analysis of the references to achieve the
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`goals that they are trying to achieve.
` Q. So do you think your opinions about what
`a person skilled in the art would consider what the
`inventors have invented in Exhibit 1013 to have the
`same skill level as to whether the combination of
`Nakagawa and Rosener would be obvious?
` MR. NIEBERG: Object to form.
` THE WITNESS: I don't understand the
`question.
`BY MR. KNEDEISEN:
` Q. Do you think it's inconsistent that it
`seems like a person skilled in the art is acting like
`an automaton relative to the Pelland reference, but
`not acting like, as you said, an automaton for the
`combination of Nakagawa and Rosener?
` MR. NIEBERG: Object to form.
` THE WITNESS: I don't agree with that
`statement.
`BY MR. KNEDEISEN:
` Q. And why are the two positions consistent?
` MR. NIEBERG: Object to form.
` THE WITNESS: Well, the 113 reference --
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`the 1013 reference is required to -- is required to
`teach the techniques of the patent that's at issue
`here in order to discl
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