UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
`Page 252
`
`APPLE INC., )
`
` )
`
` Petitioner, )
`
` )
`
`vs. ) Case IPR2021-00255
`
` ) Patent 10,298,451
`
`KOSS CORPORATION, )
`
` )
`
` Patent Owner. )
`
` The Zoom video deposition of JOSEPH
`
` McALEXANDER, III, taken before Richard Derrick
`
` Ehrlich, Registered Merit Reporter, Certified
`
` Realtime Reporter, taken pursuant to the United
`
` States Patent and Trademark Office Rules, commencing
`
` at 10:30 a.m., on the 15th day of December, 2021.
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`APPLE 1024
`Apple v. Koss
`IPR2021-00255
`
`1
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`
`
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
`Page 252
`
`APPLE INC., )
`
` )
`
` Petitioner, )
`
` )
`
`vs. ) Case IPR2021-00255
`
` ) Patent 10,298,451
`
`KOSS CORPORATION, )
`
` )
`
` Patent Owner. )
`
` The Zoom video deposition of JOSEPH
`
` McALEXANDER, III, taken before Richard Derrick
`
` Ehrlich, Registered Merit Reporter, Certified
`
` Realtime Reporter, taken pursuant to the United
`
` States Patent and Trademark Office Rules, commencing
`
` at 10:30 a.m., on the 15th day of December, 2021.
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`APPLE 1024
`Apple v. Koss
`IPR2021-00255
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`1
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`Page 253
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` A P P E A R A N C E S
`
`On behalf of Apple Inc.:
` Jennifer Hartjes
` Michael T. Pieja
` GOLDMAN ISMAIL TOMASELLI BRENNAN & BAUM LLP
` 200 South Wacker Drive
` 22nd Floor
` Chicago, IL 60606
` jhartjes@goldmanismail.com
` mpieja@goldmanismail.com
`
` Ryan Chowdhury
` Roberto Devoto
` Parvine Ghane
` FISH & RICHARDSON P.C.
` 1000 Main Avenue, SW
` Suite 1000
` Washington, D.C. 20024
` rchowdhury@fr.com
` rdevoto@fr.com
` pghane@fr.com
`
`On behalf of Koss Corporation:
`
` Mark G. Knedeisen
` Lauren Murray
` K&L GATES LLP
` 210 Sixth Avenue
` Pittsburgh, PA 15222-2613
` mark.knedeisen@klgates.com
` lauren.murray@klgates.com
`
`Videographer: Justin Henricksen
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`Page 254
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` I N D E X
` Page
`Exam by Jennifer Hartjes 256
`Exam by Mark Knedeisen 347
`
` E X H I B I T S
` Page
`
`Exhibit No. 1004 - 294
`United States Patent, 9,021,108 B2
`Exhibit No. 1 - 301
`The Dangers of Borrowing Someone Else's Wi-Fi
`
`Exhibit No. 1005 - 313
`United States Patent Application Publication,
`Scherzer et al.
`
`Exhibit No. 2 - 335
`Endpoint Monitoring and Wireless Tracking
`Exhibit No. 3 - 345
`Controlling Wireless Access Based on MAC
`Addresses
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`Page 255
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` VIDEOGRAPHER: Good morning. We are going
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` on the record. The time is 9:16 a.m. on
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` December 15, 2021.
`
` This is media unit 1 of the recorded
`
` deposition of Joseph McAlexander, III, taken by
`
` counsel for the petitioner in the matter of
`
` Apple Inc. vs. Koss Corporation filed in the
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` United States Patent and Trademark Office, Case
`
` No. IPR2021-00255.
`
` This deposition is being held remote Zoom
`
` video conference. My name is Justin Henricksen,
`
` and I'm from the firm Veritext, and I'm the
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` videographer. The court reporter is Richard
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` Ehrlich from the firm Veritext. I'm not related
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` to any party in this action nor am I financially
`
` interested in the outcome.
`
` Counsel, and all present in the room,
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` everyone attending remotely, will now state
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` their appearance and affiliations for the
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` record. If there are any objections to the
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` proceedings, please state them at the time of
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` your appearance beginning with the taking
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` attorney first.
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` MS. HARTJES: Good morning. Jenny Hartjes
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`Page 256
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` of Goldman Ismail for Petitioner Apple. With me
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` today are Mike Pieja and Ryan Chowdhury.
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` MR. KNEDEISEN: This is Mark Knedeisen from
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` K & L Gates for Patent Owner Koss Corporation.
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` With me are Lauren Murray and Brian Bozzo.
`
` VIDEOGRAPHER: Thank you.
`
` Will the court reporter please swear in the
`
` witness.
`
` JOSEPH McALEXANDER, III, DEPONENT, SWORN
`
` EXAMINATION
`
`BY MS. HARTJES:
`
`Q Good morning, Mr. McAlexander.
`
`A Good morning.
`
`Q Do you understand that we are here today in
`
` connection with the IPR proceedings between
`
` Apple and Koss Corporation?
`
`A Yes.
`
`Q And specifically today we'll be discussing
`
` IPR2021-00255. This is the matter that is
`
` related to U.S. Patent No. 10,298,451.
`
` If I refer to the patent today as the '451
`
` patent, will you understand what I'm talking
`
` about?
`
`A Yes, I will.
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`Q Okay. And, Mr. McAlexander, you submitted a
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` report in connection with this IPR; is that
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` correct?
`
`A Yes, that is correct.
`
`Q Do you have a copy of that report with you
`
` today?
`
`A I have a copy of the declaration, yes.
`
`Q Okay. And does that declaration contain all the
`
` opinions that you intend to express in this IPR
`
` proceeding?
`
`A As of the time of the date of the declaration,
`
` yes.
`
`Q Sitting here today, do you have any intention to
`
` prepare a supplemental report?
`
`A Not at this time, no.
`
`Q And at the end of your report, you declare that
`
` all the statements in there are true to the best
`
` of your knowledge; is that correct?
`
`A That is correct.
`
`Q Before we jump in, are there any corrections you
`
` would like to make to your declaration?
`
`A Not at this time.
`
`Q Can you please state your full name for the
`
` record, sir?
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`Page 258
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`A Joseph Colby McAlexander, III.
`
`Q Thank you. And I know you just went through
`
` this process yesterday, but just as a quick
`
` refresher on some of the rules, do you
`
` understand that you are giving this testimony
`
` under oath today?
`
`A Yes, I do.
`
`Q Is there any reason you would be unable to give
`
` accurate or truthful testimony today?
`
`A Not any that I'm aware of.
`
`Q And are you on any medication, or do you have
`
` any health condition that would impair your
`
` ability to understand my questions today?
`
`A No.
`
`Q All right. And if you could please tell me if
`
` you don't understand one of my questions today,
`
` if you don't ask for clarification, I will
`
` assume that you understood my question. Is that
`
` fair?
`
`A I have that understanding.
`
`Q Okay. And because we're doing this over Zoom,
`
` there may be some technical glitches, so if I
`
` cut out at any time, please let me know if you
`
` need me to repeat my question. Okay?
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`Page 259
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`A Certainly.
`
`Q All right. And I'll try to take a break about
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` every hour. I don't think you'll be here quite
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` as late as you were yesterday, but if you need a
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` break at any point, just let us know. Okay?
`
`A Thank you. I will.
`
`Q All right. Where are you located right now,
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` Mr. McAlexander?
`
`A I'm located in my home office in Anna, Texas.
`
`Q Is anyone else in the room with you today?
`
`A No, no one.
`
`Q So you and I are speaking over Zoom. Aside from
`
` the Zoom window, do you have anything else up on
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` your computer at the moment?
`
`A Do I have anything else on my computer?
`
`Q Yes. Any screens open, any applications
`
` running?
`
`A Well, I have the Internet Explorer running
`
` obviously with -- I'm using Firefox to get the
`
` Internet access. And with IE, I've got the
`
` folder open so I can get access to the exhibits
`
` that were downloaded.
`
`Q Perfect. Do you have any messaging apps open
`
` that would allow you to communicate with other
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`Page 260
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` counsel or anyone else that's not in the room
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` with you today?
`
`A I have the Outlook open, which is the way I was
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` able to download the exhibits, but that's not up
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` on the screen and in front of me at the moment.
`
`Q Okay. Sounds good. You've been deposed before,
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` correct?
`
`A Yes, that's correct.
`
`Q About how many times would you say you've been
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` deposed before?
`
`A More than 175.
`
`Q And how many of those were for patent cases?
`
`A That's a good question. Probably 145, perhaps.
`
` 150.
`
`Q Okay. And what types of technology did you
`
` testify about in those patent cases?
`
`A It's varied. Some of it has to do with code
`
` analysis, copyright infringements. I've
`
` participated in contract disputes resolution.
`
` As far as patents are concerned, video
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` processing, lighting, many different forms of
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` semiconductor and integrated circuit design,
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` fabrication, system-level patents with wireless
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` communication, GPS, computers, laptops, portable
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`Page 261
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` devices.
`
` I could probably name a lot more, but that
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` gives at least a rundown on some of the areas.
`
`Q Sounds good. Thank you. When were you first
`
` contacted about the '451 patent?
`
`A I had original contact from Koss back in 2019, I
`
` believe, or 2020. But in terms of actual
`
` involvement with the '451, not until probably
`
` June of this year.
`
`Q Okay. And when Koss reached out to you in 2019
`
` or 2020, was that in connection with this IPR
`
` proceeding?
`
`A No.
`
`Q Was it in connection with the federal litigation
`
` concerning the '451 patent?
`
`A No.
`
`Q So in 2019 or 2020 when Koss contacted you about
`
` the '451 patent, what was -- what were they
`
` contacting you about?
`
`A It was 2020, and it was just -- generally just
`
` interviewing, consulting. Just identifying what
`
` my skill sets were, and that's about it. Just
`
` general information.
`
`Q Okay. Do you remember who at Koss contacted
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`Page 262
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` you?
`
`A I don't remember exactly who the person was
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` originally that contacted me.
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`Q And then you said this summer, summer of 2021 is
`
` when you started working on this IPR proceeding?
`
`A I worked on the IPR proceeding for this
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` particular case --
`
`Q Okay. And what services were you asked to
`
` perform for this IPR proceeding?
`
`A Well, excuse me. I was trying to answer the
`
` question. I really did not finish.
`
`Q I'm sorry.
`
`A This IPR proceeding, as I understand, was
`
` instituted in June, and it was sometime in June
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` that I was contacted to work on this particular
`
` matter.
`
`Q Okay. Thank you. So when you were contacted in
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` June to work on this particular matter, what
`
` services were you asked to perform?
`
`A At that time, it was just a recognition that the
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` institution had occurred, and that they -- that
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` Koss would possibly need my assistance in
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` reviewing the information and providing a
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` declaration when they prepared their response.
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`Page 263
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` So that was the nature of, and the context of,
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` the conversation.
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`Q How did you prepare your declaration, sir?
`
`A I prepared the declaration by familiarizing
`
` myself with the '451 patent and the particular
`
` pieces of art that were identified and provided
`
` by the petitioner that's a part of the decision
`
` institute.
`
`Q And did you write the report yourself?
`
`A I wrote the report in combination with counsel.
`
`Q In your report, you provide an opinion as to the
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` obviousness or nonobviousness of the '451
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` patent; is that correct?
`
`A I do, yes.
`
`Q In your report, you do not provide an opinion on
`
` the written description of the '451 patent; is
`
` that correct?
`
` MR. KNEDEISEN: Objection. Form.
`
` THE WITNESS: I don't recall providing
`
` anything about a written description.
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` Specifically the obviousness challenge was what
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` was in front of us on the institution. That's
`
` what I responded to.
`
` \\\
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`Page 264
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`BY MS. HARTJES:
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`Q Okay. So in your report, you also do not
`
` provide an opinion on whether the '451 patent is
`
` enabled; is that correct?
`
`A I don't believe that the challenge was on
`
` enablement. I certainly don't recall responding
`
` to that, no.
`
`Q And in your report, you did not provide an
`
` opinion on whether any Apple products infringed
`
` the '451 patent; is that correct?
`
`A I have not performed any infringement analysis,
`
` so the answer is yes.
`
`Q Okay. I would like you to turn to page 4 of
`
` your declaration, if you have that in front of
`
` you?
`
`A Okay. I do.
`
`Q Do you see the section that says Materials
`
` Reviewed?
`
`A Yes, I do.
`
`Q And is that a comprehensive list of the
`
` materials that you reviewed while preparing this
`
` declaration?
`
`A It's intended to be that. It also, if you
`
` notice in the last sentence, I said there may
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`Page 265
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` be -- if there are others that are referred to
`
` herein, that's included as well.
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`Q Okay. So anything outside that list and outside
`
` what is cited in your report, are there any
`
` other materials that you looked at?
`
`A Well, I have looked at website information, but
`
` I did not rely on that.
`
`Q Okay. Did you ever review the file history of
`
` the '451 patent?
`
`A I have.
`
`Q Is that included in this list?
`
`A I don't see that the file history is identified
`
` in this list, identified the '451 patent in the
`
` body of the text. I don't -- I don't see at
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` least in this paragraph that the file history
`
` was identified.
`
`Q Okay. Looking at this list, is there anything
`
` else that you notice is missing, or does it
`
` cover all of the materials that you looked at?
`
`A Well, the intent was to cover the materials I
`
` looked at including those that are identified
`
` within the body of the declaration itself. I
`
` believe that that's -- as I can recall, that's a
`
` comprehensive list. I identified some cites in
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` the body of the declaration that had some
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` footnotes addressing certain website
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` information, and so those would be necessarily
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` included, too, because they're addressed in the
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` body of the text.
`
`Q I understand. You would agree, Mr. McAlexander,
`
` that there are no textbooks listed in this
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` Materials Reviewed list, correct?
`
`A Agree.
`
`Q You didn't cite any textbooks in your report; is
`
` that correct?
`
`A I did not cite any in the report. To the extent
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` that they would be included as a part of the
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` declarations that I reviewed, then certainly
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` that would be -- that would be part of the
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` materials considered, but I did not identify any
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` specific text.
`
`Q And you did not identify any specific treatises
`
` or publications; is that correct?
`
`A Other than what I've documented in this
`
` declaration, no.
`
`Q Okay. Are you being compensated for your
`
` participation in these proceedings,
`
` Mr. McAlexander?
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`A Yes.
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`Q What is your consulting rate?
`
`A 575 an hour.
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`Q And about how many hours have you spent on this
`
` IPR, or this '451 patent?
`
`A Well, I spent upwards of maybe 120, 125 hours
`
` total across the IPRs. But in terms of how much
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` I spent on this particular one, I really did not
`
` parse it down to this -- just this one. That's
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` the amount of time I've spent across the IPRs.
`
`Q Okay. So do you have any ballpark on the number
`
` of hours you spent preparing this report?
`
`A Perhaps 25 hours.
`
`Q Okay. Yesterday you were deposed regarding two
`
` of those other IPR proceedings that you
`
` mentioned, IPR2021-305 and IPR2021-381; is that
`
` correct?
`
`A That is correct.
`
`Q And during that deposition, my colleague,
`
` Mr. Pieja, asked you a few questions about your
`
` CV and your work history. Do you remember that?
`
`A Yes, I do.
`
`Q And you were truthful when answering his
`
` questions?
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`A Yes.
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`Q So for efficiency, would you agree that your
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` answers from yesterday about your CV and your
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` work history would remain the same today?
`
`A Yes.
`
`Q Okay. Do you know the general timeframe for
`
` when Bluetooth was developed?
`
`A Well, in the late '90s, it began development
`
` through the 2000, early 2000s.
`
`Q Okay. What about WiFi? Do you know the general
`
` timeframe for when WiFi was developed?
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`A Early 1990s is when it really began, a
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` reasonable start with maturity, through the
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` '90s.
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`Q You would agree that your formal education
`
` occurred before WiFi or Bluetooth were
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` developed; is that correct?
`
`A That is correct.
`
`Q You would agree that your teaching experience
`
` occurred before WiFi or Bluetooth were
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` developed; is that correct?
`
`A That's correct.
`
`Q And you would agree that all your publications
`
` came out before WiFi or Bluetooth were
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` developed; is that correct?
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`A If by publications you are limiting or not
`
` considering patents, the answer is yes.
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`Q Okay. Thank you. If you still have your report
`
` in front of you, I would like to turn to page 11
`
` of your CV, which I believe is page 53 of that
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` entire PDF.
`
` Let me know when you have it up.
`
`A Okay. Just one moment.
`
` Okay. I've got the CV up. Which page
`
` again?
`
`Q Page 11 of your CV.
`
`A Okay. I have it.
`
`Q Thank you. Page 11 of your CV lists the cases
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` you've been involved in in just the last seven
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` years; is that correct?
`
`A Generally speaking, that's correct, yes.
`
`Q Is it true that there are even more cases that
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` date back farther than seven years?
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`A Yes.
`
`Q Approximately how many other cases would you say
`
` you've been involved in that are not provided in
`
` the CV?
`
`A I honestly don't recall how many are provided in
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` this CV. I would say that the number of cases
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` that might be listed in total would be probably
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` 250, 300 maybe.
`
`Q Okay. At the bottom of page 11, you provide a
`
` key in footnote 2. Do you see that?
`
`A Yes, I do.
`
`Q And you have a key for antitrust cases, and
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` that's marked with an AT. Do you see that?
`
`A I see that, yes.
`
`Q So I flipped through these cases, and none of
`
` them have the AT, antitrust, symbol?
`
`A You say none of them have the AT symbol?
`
`Q Correct.
`
`A Okay.
`
`Q Are any of the cases in your CV antitrust cases?
`
`A If there are none that are showing, unless I
`
` inadvertently left off the suffix -- if you've
`
` been through it, and you don't see it on these,
`
` then I would say none of these cases that I was
`
` retained for were antitrust.
`
` The reason for the footnote is to cover my
`
` cases in general, so that would -- if there's
`
` none that show up here, then they would've been
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` in previous -- prior to the seven-year time
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` window.
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`Q I see. So correct that in the last seven years,
`
` you have not been involved in antitrust cases?
`
`A That would appear to be correct.
`
`Q Okay. Would it be fair to say that most of your
`
` expert witness work relates to patent cases?
`
`A I would say a fair share relates to patent
`
` cases. There are a number that relate to trade
`
` secrets, some copyright -- one or two copyright
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` and a number of contract, but I'd say the
`
` majority do have some relationship to patents.
`
`Q Okay. And for these patent cases, you're
`
` engaged for your technical expertise; is that
`
` correct?
`
` MR. KNEDEISEN: Objection. Form.
`
` THE WITNESS: That is correct.
`
`BY MS. HARTJES:
`
`Q And specifically your engineering expertise; is
`
` that right?
`
`A I would say, in general, that would be correct.
`
`Q Have you ever been hired as a damages expert
`
` before?
`
`A No.
`
`Q Do you have any degrees or formal training in
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` economics, sir?
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`A No.
`
`Q What about marketing?
`
`A No formal degrees, no.
`
`Q Any degrees or formal training in sales?
`
`A Not in terms of degrees. I ran a marketing
`
` group for several years in my experience, but no
`
` formal training, per se.
`
`Q And do you have any legal training?
`
`A No.
`
`Q Okay. Mr. McAlexander, do you own a HomePod?
`
`A Do I own a what?
`
`Q A HomePod?
`
`A No.
`
`Q Have you ever used a HomePod before?
`
`A I have used one, but I don't own one.
`
`Q What have you used the HomePod for?
`
`A Just as a listening.
`
`Q Anything else?
`
`A No.
`
`Q Do you own any other type of smart speaker, sir?
`
`A No, I do not.
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`Q I would like to look at your report at paragraph
`
` 69. Let me know when you turn to paragraph 69.
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`Page 273
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`A Okay. I'm at paragraph 69.
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`Q You write that Apple sold between 4 and
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` 10 million units per year at prices ranging from
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` $300 per unit to $350 per unit. That amounts to
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` more than a billion dollars per year which I
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` consider to be significant.
`
` Do you see that sentence?
`
`A That was correct recitation of what I wrote.
`
`Q At the end of the sentence, Which I consider to
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` be significant, you do not include any citation
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` there, correct?
`
`A No, I do not.
`
`Q So your determination that the sales are
`
` significant, that is based on your opinion?
`
`A Yes.
`
`Q What do you mean by significant?
`
`A A significant return in terms of dollars for a
`
` particular set of products.
`
`Q Can you give me a threshold for what amount you
`
` would consider to be significant?
`
`A I was not trying to make -- I was certainly not
`
` making the statement from the aspect of a
`
` damages expertise. It's just that the
`
` valuation, when you have a particular product
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` that has an acceptability that generates
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` billions of dollars, I find that to be
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` significant.
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` In terms of a threshold, I really never
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` thought about any particular threshold for that.
`
`Q Would you consider $100 million to be
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` significant?
`
`A In the framework of sales, probably so. If it's
`
` getting less than 100 million, then I would not,
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` necessarily in this commercialized-type product,
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` consider that significant. It would be a lot
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` but not as significant.
`
`Q Okay. So your threshold for significance is
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` somewhere around $100 million. Is that what
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` you're saying?
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`A I would say that if it drops below $100 million
`
` over the timeframe I'm talking about, then that
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` might not be as significant as something that's
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` in the billion-dollar range.
`
`Q In paragraph 69, do you include a timeframe?
`
`A I said certain years after Apple introduced the
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` HomePod, and that's based upon the cost 2020
`
` exhibit.
`
`Q So when you say, I would say that if it drops
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` below 100 million over the timeframe I'm talking
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` about, what timeframe are you talking about?
`
` MR. KNEDEISEN: Objection. Form.
`
` THE WITNESS: The -- I'm sorry. I had a
`
` note that they might have refreshed the exhibit
`
` list, but it's still not there.
`
` Well, this, as I recall -- I don't have the
`
` document in front of me, but as I recall, we're
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` talking about the HomePod release sometime, oh,
`
` 2018 timeframe. And so what we're saying is
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` from then, it's over a three-year period.
`
`BY MS. HARTJES:
`
`Q So I guess what I'm trying to understand, if
`
` someone wanted to replicate your analysis to
`
` determine if a company's revenue was
`
` significant, do you have any formula they could
`
` use?
`
`A No. As I said, this is my representation, my
`
` opinion that billions of dollars is a
`
` significant amount of money. It's just a
`
` general observation within this timeframe.
`
`Q So you have no objective way of determining
`
` whether a company's revenue is significant; is
`
` that correct?
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`A If I was working this from a damage standpoint,
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` I would have some objective ways in which I
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` would approach that, but that was not the intent
`
` here with this statement. This is a general
`
` statement, a general observation that billions
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` of dollars of sales on products that are in the
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` 300, $350 range is a significant achievement
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` over a several-year timeframe.
`
`Q So that's not exactly what I asked. Yes or no,
`
` you have no objective way of determining whether
`
` a company's revenue is significant?
`
` MR. KNEDEISEN: Objection. Form.
`
` THE WITNESS: I did not utilize any
`
` objective way in reaching the statement -- the
`
` opinion I had in this declaration.
`
`BY MS. HARTJES:
`
`Q Thank you. Do you know how Apple's revenue from
`
` its HomePod sales compares to the revenue from
`
` other Apple products?
`
`A I don't, as I sit here, have that in mind, no.
`
`Q Did you attempt to find out as you were drafting
`
` your declaration?
`
`A No.
`
`Q Do you know how Apple's revenue from its HomePod
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` sales compares to other company's sales of smart
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`Page 277
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` speakers?
`
`A I did not under --
`
` MR. KNEDEISEN: Objection. Form.
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` THE WITNESS: I did not undertake that
`
` analysis. As I sit here, I do not know.
`
`BY MS. HARTJES:
`
`Q So as you were drafting your declaration, you
`
` did not attempt to find out how Apple sales
`
` compared to the sales of other companies?
`
`A I was not doing --
`
` MR. KNEDEISEN: Objection. Form.
`
` THE WITNESS: I was not attempting to do a
`
` comparative analysis. I was just looking at the
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` success commercially of a particular product.
`
`BY MS. HARTJES:
`
`Q All right. If you look at paragraph 69, you
`
` cite to an exhibit, Koss 2020, at page 15. Do
`
` you see that?
`
`A I do.
`
`Q So one of the exhibits that should have been in
`
` your email is Koss 2020. So if you could pull
`
` that up.
`
`A Let me just ask Mark.
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`
`
` This was not something that was sent to me,
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` right?
`
` MR. KNEDEISEN: I think I sent it to you.
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`Page 278
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` You mean, this morning?
`
` THE WITNESS: Yes.
`
` MR. KNEDEISEN: It should've been.
`
` What's the name of the file, Jenny?
`
` IPR2021-00255, 2020 Apple statistics?
`
` MS. HARTJES: Apple statistics.
`
` THE WITNESS: Here we go. I found it.
`
`BY MS. HARTJES:
`
`Q Great. Did you review this document as part of
`
` your analysis, Mr. McAlexander?
`
`A Yes.
`
`Q And in your report, you specifically cite to
`
` page 15 of this exhibit; is that correct?
`
`A That is correct.
`
`Q Okay. Can you please turn to page 15 of this
`
` exhibit?
`
`A All right. I have that.
`
`Q Do you see on page 15 where it says HomePod
`
` Sales in the middle?
`
`A Yes, I do.
`
`Q Right underneath that, the document says, In
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`
` comparison to AirPods, HomePod has seen limited
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`Page 279
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` success.
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` Correct?
`
`A That's what it says, yes.
`
`Q You did not mention that fact in your analysis,
`
` correct?
`
`A No. I had referenced this particular document
`
` so that is in my declaration, but I did not make
`
` that statement.
`
`Q And beside that, as you were drafting your
`
` declaration, you did not attempt to find out how
`
` HomePods, Apple's HomePod sales compared to
`
` sales of its other products, correct?
`
` MR. KNEDEISEN: Objection. Form.
`
` THE WITNESS: No. I mean, there's
`
` certainly a litany of products that Apple sells.
`
` I did not do a comparison of HomePod versus
`
` another. Even in this recitation on this
`
` particular page 15, there's recognition that
`
` half of the sales, even in this timeframe in Q4
`
` 2020 were related to this newer product with the
`
` HomePod mini. So that's indicating that, even
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` with some of the newer products, they're
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` launching that, and that's improving the sales,
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` but I did not -- I did not do a comparison
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` between HomePod and some other of the devices
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`Page 280
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` that Apple sells.
`
`BY MS. HARTJES:
`
`Q You also said earlier that you did not compare
`
` Apple sales with the sales of other companies;
`
` is that correct?
`
`A I did not, no.
`
`Q You did not do that comparison. Is that what
`
` you're saying?
`
`A That's correct.
`
` MR. KNEDEISEN: Objection. Form.
`
`BY MS. HARTJES:
`
`Q In that very next sentence in Exhibit Koss 2020,
`
` page 15 which you cite, it says, Apple sits far
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` behind Amazon and Google in units sold.
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` Do you see that?
`
`A Yes, I do.
`
`Q And you did not include that in your report
`
` either, correct?
`
`A No. It has no bearing on the fact that there is
`
` commercial success in terms of the HomePod
`
` sales, but I didn't do a comparison on how
`
` successful that was versus competitive products.
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`888-391-3376
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`Veritext Legal Solutions
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`Page 281
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`Q Just so I'm clear, you did not use any sort of
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` formula to determine if Apple sales were
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` sig
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