**ROUGH DRAFT OF RAJENDRA SHAH**
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`UNCERTIFIED REALTIME ROUGH DRAFT OF
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`RAJENDRA SHAH TAKEN 8/11/2021
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`1
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`3 4
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`5 THIS REALTIME ROUGH DRAFT IS UNEDITED AND
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`6 UNCERTIFIED AND MAY CONTAIN UNTRANSLATED
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`7 STENOGRAPHIC SYMBOLS, AN OCCASIONAL REPORTER'S
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`8 NOTE, A MISSPELLED PROPER NAME/OR NONSENSICAL WORD
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`9 COMBINATIONS. PURSUANT TO CCP SECTION 2025.540(b),
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`10 IT MAY NOT BE USED, CITED, OR TRANSCRIBED AS THE
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`11 CERTIFIED TRANSCRIPT OF THE DEPOSITION PROCEEDINGS.
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`12 THIS REALTIME ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT MAY NOT BE
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`13 CITED OR USED IN ANY WAY OR AT ANY TIME TO REBUT OR
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`14 CONTRADICT THE CERTIFIED TRANSCRIPT OF THE
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`15 DEPOSITION PROCEEDINGS AS PROVIDED BY THE
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`16 DEPOSITION OFFICER. THIS DOCUMENT IS NOT TO BE
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`17 RELIED UPON IN WHOLE OR IN PART AS THE OFFICIAL
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`18 TRANSCRIPT. THIS UNCERTIFIED REALTIME ROUGH DRAFT
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`19 VERSION HAS NOT BEEN REVIEWED OR EDITED BY THE
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`20 CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTER FOR ACCURACY.
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`21
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`22 ACCEPTANCE OF THIS REALTIME ROUGH DRAFT IS AN
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`23 AUTOMATIC FINAL COPY ORDER. I AGREE NOT TO SHARE,
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`GOOGLE V. ECOFACTOR
`IPR2021-00054
`Exhibit 2015
`Page 1
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`UNCERTIFIED REALTIME ROUGH DRAFT OF
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`RAJENDRA SHAH TAKEN 8/11/2021
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`***
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`1
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`2
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`3 4
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`5 THIS REALTIME ROUGH DRAFT IS UNEDITED AND
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`6 UNCERTIFIED AND MAY CONTAIN UNTRANSLATED
`
`7 STENOGRAPHIC SYMBOLS, AN OCCASIONAL REPORTER'S
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`8 NOTE, A MISSPELLED PROPER NAME/OR NONSENSICAL WORD
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`9 COMBINATIONS. PURSUANT TO CCP SECTION 2025.540(b),
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`10 IT MAY NOT BE USED, CITED, OR TRANSCRIBED AS THE
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`11 CERTIFIED TRANSCRIPT OF THE DEPOSITION PROCEEDINGS.
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`12 THIS REALTIME ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT MAY NOT BE
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`13 CITED OR USED IN ANY WAY OR AT ANY TIME TO REBUT OR
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`14 CONTRADICT THE CERTIFIED TRANSCRIPT OF THE
`
`15 DEPOSITION PROCEEDINGS AS PROVIDED BY THE
`
`16 DEPOSITION OFFICER. THIS DOCUMENT IS NOT TO BE
`
`17 RELIED UPON IN WHOLE OR IN PART AS THE OFFICIAL
`
`18 TRANSCRIPT. THIS UNCERTIFIED REALTIME ROUGH DRAFT
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`19 VERSION HAS NOT BEEN REVIEWED OR EDITED BY THE
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`20 CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTER FOR ACCURACY.
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`21
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`22 ACCEPTANCE OF THIS REALTIME ROUGH DRAFT IS AN
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`23 AUTOMATIC FINAL COPY ORDER. I AGREE NOT TO SHARE,
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`GOOGLE V. ECOFACTOR
`IPR2021-00054
`Exhibit 2015
`Page 1
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` 24 GIVE, COPY, SCAN, FAX, OR IN ANY WAY DISTRIBUTE THE
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` 25 REALTIME ROUGH DRAFT IN ANY FORM (WRITTEN OR
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` 1
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` **ROUGH DRAFT OF RAJENDRA SHAH**
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` 1 COMPUTERIZED) TO ANY PARTY. HOWEVER, MY OWN
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` 2 EXPERTS, CO-COUNSEL, CLIENT(S) AND STAFF MAY HAVE
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` 3 LIMITED INTERNAL USE OF SAME WITH THE UNDERSTANDING
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` 4 THAT I AGREE TO DESTROY ALL REALTIME ROUGH DRAFTS
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` 5 AND/OR COMPUTERIZED FORMS, IF ANY, AND REPLACE SAME
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` 6 WITH THE FINAL TRANSCRIPT AND/OR FINAL COMPUTERIZED
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` 7 FORM, UPON ITS COMPLETION.
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` 8
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` 9
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` 10 Acceptance of this realtime draft is an
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` 11 automatic final copy order.
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` 12
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` 13
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` 14 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Good morning. We are
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` 11:20:34 15 on the record at 11:20 a.m. Eastern Daylight Time
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` 16 on August 11th, 2021.
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` 17 Please note that the microphones are
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` 18 sensitive and may pick up whispering, private
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` 19 conversations or cellular interference. Audio and
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`GOOGLE V. ECOFACTOR
`IPR2021-00054
`Exhibit 2015
`Page 2
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`
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` 11:20:51 20 video recording will continue to take place unless
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` 21 all parties agree to go off the record.
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` 22 This is the media unit 1 of the
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` 23 video-recorded deposition of Rajendra Shah taken by
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` 24 counsel for the patent owner in the matter of
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` 11:21:08 25 Google LLC versus EcoFactor, Inc. filed before the
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` 2
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` **ROUGH DRAFT OF RAJENDRA SHAH**
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` 11:21:12 1 Patent Trial and Appeal Board,
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` 2 Case No. IPR2021-00054, Patent No. 10,534,382.
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` 3 This deposition is being held as a
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` 4 virtual deposition via Zoom with the witness
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` 11:21:35 5 located in Indianapolis, Indiana.
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` 6 My name is Scott Slater from the firm
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` 7 Veritext Legal Solutions, and I am the
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` 8 videographer. Our court reporter is Rebecca Romano
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` 9 from the firm Veritext Legal Solutions.
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` 11:21:49 10 I am not related to any party in this
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` 11 action, nor I am financially interested in the
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` 12 outcome.
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` 13 Counsel and all present will now state
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` 14 their appearances and affiliations for the record.
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` 11:21:58 15 If there any objections to proceeding, please state
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` 16 them at the time of your appearance, beginning with
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`GOOGLE V. ECOFACTOR
`IPR2021-00054
`Exhibit 2015
`Page 3
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`
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` 17 the noticing attorney.
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` 18 MR. MIRZAIE: This is Reza Mirzaie of
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` 19 Russ August & Kabat and I represent the patent
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` 11:22:12 20 owner, EcoFactor.
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` 21 MR. SMITH: And this is Matthew Smith of
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` 22 Smith Baluch LLP and I represent the petitioner,
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` 23 Google.
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` 24 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Thank you very much.
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` 11:22:22 25 Will the court reporter please administer
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` 3
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` **ROUGH DRAFT OF RAJENDRA SHAH**
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` 11:22:24 1 the oath.
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` 2 THE COURT REPORTER: At this time, I will
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` 3 ask counsel to agree on the record that there is no
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` 4 objection to this deposition officer administering
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` 11:22:24 5 a binding oath to the deponent via remote
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` 6 videoconference, starting with the noticing
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` 7 attorney, please.
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` 8 MR. MIRZAIE: Yes, no objection.
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` 9 MR. SMITH: No objection.
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` 11:22:43 10 THE COURT REPORTER: If you could raise
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` 11 your right hand for me, please.
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` 12 THE DEPONENT: (Complies.)
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`GOOGLE V. ECOFACTOR
`IPR2021-00054
`Exhibit 2015
`Page 4
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`
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` 13 THE COURT REPORTER: You do solemnly
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` 14 state, under penalty of perjury, that the testimony
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` 11:22:43 15 you are about to give in this deposition shall be
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` 16 the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the
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` 17 truth?
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` 18 THE DEPONENT: I do.
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` 19
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` 11:22:43 20
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` 21
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` 22
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` 23
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` 24
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` 11:22:43 25
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` **ROUGH DRAFT OF RAJENDRA SHAH**
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` 11:22:43 1
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` 2
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` 3 /////
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` 4
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` 11:06:14 5 having been administered an oath, was examined and
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` 6 testified as follows:
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` 7
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` 8 EXAMINATION
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` 9 BY MR. MIRZAIE:
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`GOOGLE V. ECOFACTOR
`IPR2021-00054
`Exhibit 2015
`Page 5
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` 11:23:02 10 Q. Good morning, Mr. Shah.
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` 11 A. Good morning.
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` 12 Q. Have you been deposed before?
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` 13 A. Once before.
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` 14 Q. And was that in a patent infringement
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` 11:23:13 15 matter?
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` 16 A. Yes.
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` 17 Q. Was it in an IPR proceeding or a
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` 18 District Court proceeding?
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` 19 A. I believe it was an IPR proceeding.
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` 11:23:24 20 Q. Got it.
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` 21 Was it on behalf of Google, like this one
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` 22 is?
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` 23 A. Yes.
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` 24 Q. Got it.
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` 11:23:31 25 Well, just short resuscitation of the
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` 5
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` **ROUGH DRAFT OF RAJENDRA SHAH**
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` 11:23:34 1 ground rules, even though I'm sure you know them
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` 2 well.
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` 3 We'll probably take breaks every 60 to 90
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` 4 minutes. But if you need a break sooner than that,
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` 11:23:45 5 happy to cut for a break.
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`GOOGLE V. ECOFACTOR
`IPR2021-00054
`Exhibit 2015
`Page 6
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` 6 If I am in the middle of a line of
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` 7 questioning, I'd probably just ask that you finish
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` 8 the answer to my line of questioning and then we
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` 9 can take a break; is that okay?
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` 11:23:58 10 A. Yeah, that's good.
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` 11 Q. And if you don't understand any question
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` 12 that I ask, please just let me know and I'll try to
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` 13 rephrase it; is that okay?
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` 14 A. Yeah.
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` 11:24:27 15 Q. And you were hired by the petitioner,
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` 16 Google, to provide a declaration in this IPR
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` 17 matter, correct?
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` 18 A. That's correct.
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` 19 Q. And we talked about this before we got on
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` 11:24:47 20 the video, but you have access to a share drive
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` 21 there on your computer, correct?
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` 22 A. Yes, I do.
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` 23 Q. Okay. And we'll -- we'll probably be
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` 24 referencing certain exhibits from the share drive
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` 11:25:03 25 during today's deposition.
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` 6
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` **ROUGH DRAFT OF RAJENDRA SHAH**
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` 11:25:05 1 And if you look at that share drive, the
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` 2 first document -- at least on my screen -- the --
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`GOOGLE V. ECOFACTOR
`IPR2021-00054
`Exhibit 2015
`Page 7
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` 3 the title of the actual link is just a seven digit
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` 4 number, 153306.
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` 11:25:33 5 Do you see that?
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` 6 A. Yes. That's third on my list, but I see
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` 7 that.
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` 8 Q. Okay. If you could open that one up.
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` 9 And is -- my question is, is this the
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` 11:25:50 10 declaration that you provided in this matter?
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` 11 MR. SMITH: Object to form and to the
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` 12 exhibit.
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` 13 And -- and specifically, Reza, this looks
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` 14 like the Ecobee declaration. I'm not sure if it's
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` 11:26:09 15 any different, but...
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` 16 MR. MIRZAIE: Okay. I don't --
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` 17 MR. SMITH: I don't know if I have the
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` 18 right copy, but...
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` 19 MR. MIRZAIE: Yeah, I don't think it is.
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` 11:26:14 20 But I'll -- I'll introduce the -- the other one as
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` 21 well.
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` 22 MR. SMITH: Can you -- can you tell me
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` 23 which one we're looking at then?
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` 24 I have -- 1533306 is the one I pulled up.
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` 11:26:24 25 MR. MIRZAIE: Yeah, that's the one that I
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` 7
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`GOOGLE V. ECOFACTOR
`IPR2021-00054
`Exhibit 2015
`Page 8
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` **ROUGH DRAFT OF RAJENDRA SHAH**
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` 11:26:24 1 just stated on the record. And it does appear to
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` 2 be the Ecobee copy. So you could peruse that, but
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` 3 I'll introduce another exhibit for your attention
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` 4 right now, sir, which is the -- I -- I believe
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` 11:26:38 5 it's the -- it's perfectly identical -- verbatim,
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` 6 but the one with -- that is the Google copy.
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` 7 Okay. So if you refresh your Egnyte
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` 8 share drive folder, you should see a sixth document
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` 9 there and the -- the first portion of the title is
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` 11:27:25 10 PTAB, P-T-A-B.
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` 11 THE DEPONENT: Okay.
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` 12 MR. MIRZAIE: Okay. And -- and for the
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` 13 record, this is Exhibit 1002 from this IPR
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` 14 proceeding.
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` 11:27:49 15 Q. (By Mr. Mirzaie) And my question to you,
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` 16 sir, is do you recognize this document?
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` 17 A. Yes. This appears to be my declaration.
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` 18 Q. And did you review this document in
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` 19 preparation for your deposition today?
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` 11:28:17 20 A. I did look over parts of it.
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` 21 Q. And in doing so, did you notice any
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` 22 mistakes or anything you need to correct?
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` 23 A. No, I'm not aware of any like that.
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`GOOGLE V. ECOFACTOR
`IPR2021-00054
`Exhibit 2015
`Page 9
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` 24 Q. Okay. Yeah, if -- if you catch any
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` 11:28:37 25 mistakes -- if you caught any mistakes, I was just
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` 8
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` **ROUGH DRAFT OF RAJENDRA SHAH**
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` 11:28:41 1 going to ask you, feel free to correct them on the
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` 2 record right now.
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` 3 But I guess you have not caught any
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` 4 mistakes in -- that you want to correct, any -- any
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` 11:28:49 5 typos or anything like that, correct?
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` 6 A. That's correct.
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` 7 Q. And this is a complete statement of the
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` 8 opinions in your declaration, correct?
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` 9 A. Yes. This is the declaration, yes.
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` 11:29:13 10 Q. And as I understand it -- let's take a
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` 11 look at this. It's a fairly long declaration.
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` 12 But you provide opinions on one ground,
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` 13 correct?
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` 14 A. Yes.
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` 11:29:29 15 Q. And that ground is an obviousness ground,
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` 16 not an anticipation ground, correct?
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` 17 A. Correct.
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` 18 Q. And specifically, the obviousness
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` 19 combination for all the claims that you provided
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` 11:29:49 20 opinions on is Geadelmann plus Ehlers, correct?
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`Exhibit 2015
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` 21 A. Ehlers, yes. Ehlers '330 is the specific
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` 22 publication, yes.
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` 23 Q. Thanks for that clarification.
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` 24 And I'll make sure that I try to remember
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` 11:30:07 25 to say Ehlers '330. But if I ever slip and just
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` 9
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` **ROUGH DRAFT OF RAJENDRA SHAH**
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` 11:30:11 1 say Ehlers, please assume that I mean Ehlers '330,
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` 2 unless I give you another Ehlers number.
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` 3 Is that okay?
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` 4 A. Yeah, that's okay.
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` 11:30:33 5 Q. And the -- I wanted to flip to the part
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` 6 of your report -- I think it's Roman numeral X --
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` 7 that starts on page 19. It might be better just
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` 8 to -- for me to point to paragraph numbers.
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` 9 It's paragraphs numbers 38 through 41.
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` 11:30:49 10 Are you there?
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` 11 A. Okay. I'm on 38.
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` 12 Q. Yes.
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` 13 And as I understand it, you interpreted
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` 14 the claim language as a necessary predicate to
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` 11:31:06 15 providing the -- the opinions in your declaration,
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` 16 correct?
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`GOOGLE V. ECOFACTOR
`IPR2021-00054
`Exhibit 2015
`Page 11
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` 17 MR. SMITH: Object to form.
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` 18 THE DEPONENT: I -- yeah. In order to
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` 19 give the opinions, I had to interpret the claim
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` 11:31:17 20 language. And I used certain construction
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` 21 information already available.
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` 22 Q. (By Mr. Mirzaie) And what's that certain
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` 23 construction information already available?
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` 24 A. That's listed in here. I believe it's --
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` 11:31:56 25 I guess we have to go to the top to see the...
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` **ROUGH DRAFT OF RAJENDRA SHAH**
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` 11:32:05 1 Q. Sure.
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` 2 A. Okay. I've -- I've been through a number
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` 3 of these. Maybe this one doesn't have any
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` 4 preconstruction information.
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` 11:32:43 5 Q. Uh-huh.
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` 6 A. So I -- I'll just go with my earlier
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` 7 statement. I interpreted it -- the language of the
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` 8 claims.
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` 9 Q. Got it.
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` 11:32:54 10 And as you state here, I believe you
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` 11 used -- strike that.
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` 12 You interpreted the language of the
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` 13 claims in accordance with the ordinary and
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`GOOGLE V. ECOFACTOR
`IPR2021-00054
`Exhibit 2015
`Page 12
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` 14 customary meaning of those terms, as understood by
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` 11:33:10 15 one of ordinary skill in the art, in light of the
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` 16 intrinsic record, including the specification and
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` 17 so forth, correct?
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` 18 A. That is all correct, yeah. And the time
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` 19 frame that we had to deal with on this patent.
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` 11:33:30 20 Q. And what -- what time frame is that?
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` 21 A. I believe it was -- it's listed in here.
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` 22 I think it was July of 2008, was the
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` 23 earliest date.
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` 24 Q. Okay. And I note that here on -- in
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` 11:33:51 25 paragraph 40, you recite your understanding of the
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` 11
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` **ROUGH DRAFT OF RAJENDRA SHAH**
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` 11:33:55 1 concept of extrinsic evidence.
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` 2 Do you see that?
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` 3 A. Yes.
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` 4 Q. And I -- I don't believe you rely on any
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` 11:34:04 5 extrinsic evidence in -- in your analysis, but let
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` 6 me know if I'm mistaken about that.
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` 7 A. So --
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` 8 Q. For instance, I don't believe you rely on
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` 9 any dictionary definitions, but please let me know
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`IPR2021-00054
`Exhibit 2015
`Page 13
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` 11:34:26 10 if I'm mistaken about that.
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` 11 A. No, not on any dictionary -- it's like we
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` 12 said earlier, as understood by a person of skill in
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` 13 the art in the time frame. I was interpreting the
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` 14 language in the claims.
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` 11:34:42 15 Q. And specifically, if I look to your
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` 16 paragraph 38, you're interpreting it in accordance
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` 17 with the ordinary and customary meaning as
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` 18 understood by one of skill in the art, in light of
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` 19 the claim language, the specification and the file
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` 11:34:59 20 history of the patent.
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` 21 Otherwise known as the intrinsic record,
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` 22 correct?
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` 23 A. That's correct.
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` 24 Q. So you used the intrinsic record to
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` 11:35:12 25 inform yourself about how a -- one of skill in the
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` 12
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` **ROUGH DRAFT OF RAJENDRA SHAH**
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` 11:35:15 1 art would understand claim terms in the patent
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` 2 scope as a whole, fair?
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` 3 A. I -- I agree, yes.
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` 4 Q. Okay. I wanted to take a look at the --
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` 11:36:02 5 some of the -- the claim language, and we could
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` 6 start on page 15, paragraph 33.
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`GOOGLE V. ECOFACTOR
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`Exhibit 2015
`Page 14
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` 7 There's a recitation of one example of
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` 8 patent -- it's just claim 1, I believe, of the
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` 9 '382 patent there in your paragraph 33, correct?
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` 11:36:23 10 A. I'm -- I'm on 33 now.
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` 11 What was your question again?
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` 12 Q. Whether that is a recitation of
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` 13 independent claim 1 of the patent?
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` 14 A. Yeah, that is.
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` 11:36:52 15 Q. And I wanted to understand -- strike
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` 16 that.
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` 17 Can you take a look at -- at the bottom
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` 18 of page 16, for example, where the bottom half of
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` 19 claim 1 is recited in your declaration?
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` 11:38:18 20 A. Okay.
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` 21 Q. There is a piece of the claim that begins
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` 22 with "the one or more processors with circuitry and
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` 23 code designed to execute instructions to determine
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` 24 whether the building is occupied or unoccupied."
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` 11:38:42 25 Do you see that?
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` **ROUGH DRAFT OF RAJENDRA SHAH**
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` 11:38:43 1 A. Yes.
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` 2 Q. And what was the ordinary and customary
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`Exhibit 2015
`Page 15
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` 3 meaning in light of the specification of the
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` 4 '382 patent that you employed for the phrase
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` 11:38:59 5 "occupied or unoccupied"?
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` 6 MR. SMITH: Object to form.
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` 7 THE DEPONENT: What the claim is stating
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` 8 is to determine whether the building is occupied or
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` 9 unoccupied. And in the context of this patent and
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` 11:39:21 10 the general HVAC heating, ventilating and air
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` 11 systems that operate typically under the control of
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` 12 thermostats, the occupied and unoccupied would
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` 13 represent whether there were occupants or people
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` 14 present in the building or not.
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` 11:39:48 15 Q. (By Mr. Mirzaie) Got it.
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` 16 And in this case, the one or more
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` 17 processors are required to have "circuitry and code
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` 18 designed to execute instructions to determine
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` 19 whether the building is occupied or unoccupied,"
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` 11:40:04 20 according to the meaning you applied, correct?
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` 21 A. Let me -- while we're on that phrase,
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` 22 that phrase is repeated. The "one or more
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` 23 processors with circuitry and code designed to
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` 24 execute instructions" is repeated in just about
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` 11:40:22 25 every element.
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` 14
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`IPR2021-00054
`Exhibit 2015
`Page 16
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` **ROUGH DRAFT OF RAJENDRA SHAH**
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` 11:40:24 1 And it appears to me interpreting it,
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` 2 that in the context of all the elements in here,
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` 3 some of them do not suggest the -- the executed
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` 4 instructions do something with the rest of the
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` 11:40:42 5 claim.
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` 6 So my interpretation is that that whole
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` 7 phrase, as it's repeated, simply describes the
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` 8 processors, and repeatedly describes them as
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` 9 opposed to saying the instructions to determine.
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` 11:40:58 10 But either way, it doesn't make too much
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` 11 difference. I just wanted -- since you asked me
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` 12 how to interpret it, it seems me the entire
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` 13 sentence or -- or the phrase is a description of
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` 14 the one or more processors and is repeated in -- in
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` 11:41:14 15 all elements. And sometimes it doesn't continue in
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` 16 the rest of the sentence in some elements. Here it
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` 17 does.
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` 18 Q. Got it.
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` 19 And what's an example of where it doesn't
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` 11:41:25 20 continue in -- in some of the elements, in contrast
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` 21 to the element we were just talking about?
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` 22 A. So let's say the -- the last element on
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` 23 page 16, "wherein the one or more processors" --
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` 24 sorry. That is a little different. I'll have to
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`GOOGLE V. ECOFACTOR
`IPR2021-00054
`Exhibit 2015
`Page 17
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` 11:41:48 25 find one.
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` 15
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` **ROUGH DRAFT OF RAJENDRA SHAH**
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` 11:41:49 1 But I -- as I went through it, it seemed
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` 2 like the intent was to use the -- the whole phrase
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` 3 as a description of the processors. But sometimes
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` 4 it continued into the rest of the sentence and you
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` 11:42:01 5 could interpret it that way as well. It's not a --
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` 6 to me, it's not a big difference either way.
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` 7 Q. Got it.
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` 8 And so in your opinion, the "with
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` 9 circuitry and code designed to execute
`
` 11:42:17 10 instructions" is describing the processors,
`
` 11 correct?
`
` 12 A. That's the way I -- I saw it when reading
`
` 13 through all the claim elements.
`
` 14 Q. Going back to the claim element we were
`
` 11:42:30 15 talking about a moment ago, just as one example,
`
` 16 the "circuitry and code designed to execute
`
` 17 instructions to determine whether the building is
`
` 18 occupied or unoccupied."
`
` 19 Do you see that phrase?
`
` 11:42:45 20 A. To determine whether the building is
`
`GOOGLE V. ECOFACTOR
`IPR2021-00054
`Exhibit 2015
`Page 18
`
`
`
` 21 occupied; is that the question?
`
` 22 Q. Yes.
`
` 23 A. Yes, I see the phrase.
`
` 24 Q. Got it.
`
` 11:42:52 25 And the -- strike that.
`
` 16
`
` **ROUGH DRAFT OF RAJENDRA SHAH**
`
` 11:43:00 1 Q. So this requires the circuitry and code
`
` 2 to be designed to execute instructions to make that
`
` 3 determination; namely, whether the building is
`
` 4 occupied or unoccupied, correct?
`
` 11:43:13 5 MR. SMITH: Object to form.
`
` 6 THE DEPONENT: Depending on, again, on
`
` 7 how you interpret, the language is a little bit
`
` 8 vague in here.
`
` 9 If you interpret it as a description of
`
` 11:43:26 10 the processors as repeated, so the processors have
`
` 11 circuitry and code designed to execute
`
` 12 instructions, period. And then the processor to
`
` 13 determine whether the building is occupied or
`
` 14 unoccupied is one way of looking at it.
`
` 11:43:43 15 And the other one is if you want to
`
` 16 consider that sentence as a continuation, then it's
`
` 17 the instructions running on the processor to
`
`GOOGLE V. ECOFACTOR
`IPR2021-00054
`Exhibit 2015
`Page 19
`
`
`
` 18 determine whether the building is occupied. Both
`
` 19 interpretations are highly similar.
`
` 11:44:01 20 Q. (By Mr. Mirzaie) So just to understand
`
` 21 the distinction a little bit better that you're
`
` 22 drawing, in the first instance, the processors
`
` 23 would have circuitry and code designed to execute
`
` 24 instructions and the processors would determine
`
` 11:44:16 25 whether the building is occupied or unoccupied, but
`
` 17
`
` **ROUGH DRAFT OF RAJENDRA SHAH**
`
` 11:44:19 1 not necessarily through circuitry and code designed
`
` 2 to execute instructions to make that determination.
`
` 3 And in the second instance, everything is
`
` 4 the same except there's an additional restriction
`
` 11:44:34 5 that the circuitry and code designed to execute
`
` 6 instructions would make that determination; is that
`
` 7 correct?
`
` 8 A. That -- that's correct. Because the --
`
` 9 depending on, you know, what a POSA -- person of
`
` 11:44:49 10 skill in the art would look at this. The processor
`
` 11 makes the determination. How does it make the
`
` 12 determination. It could be through execution of
`
` 13 code and the instructions because that's what
`
`GOOGLE V. ECOFACTOR
`IPR2021-00054
`Exhibit 2015
`Page 20
`
`
`
` 14 processors do.
`
` 11:45:04 15 Now, does it need the circuitry to do
`
` 16 something when it's determining this? That's a
`
` 17 little bit of a stretch.
`
` 18 So, again, I -- I don't want to make a
`
` 19 big deal of it. It's just how you interpret it
`
` 11:45:20 20 slightly different.
`
` 21 Q. Got it.
`
` 22 And which of those two interpretations
`
` 23 did you apply for your analysis in this IPR?
`
` 24 A. I don't think the -- the conclusions
`
` 11:45:38 25 would have been different, but I -- I did apply the
`
` 18
`
` **ROUGH DRAFT OF RAJENDRA SHAH**
`
` 11:45:42 1 one I felt was more appropriate, in light of all
`
` 2 the claims, which is that -- that whole phrase is a
`
` 3 description -- repeated description of the
`
` 4 processors. And --
`
` 11:46:00 5 Q. Got it. So --
`
` 6 Sorry. Please continue.
`
` 7 A. No. I -- and what I'm saying is -- yeah.
`
` 8 If you want to go through all -- all the claim
`
` 9 elements, I'm sure I'll find instances where the
`
` 11:46:07 10 sentence doesn't continue like it does in this
`
`GOOGLE V. ECOFACTOR
`IPR2021-00054
`Exhibit 2015
`Page 21
`
`
`
` 11 element. But I -- I would have to read through
`
` 12 the -- all the claims to find those.
`
` 13 Q. So the -- just going back to your last
`
` 14 answer, you did apply the one you felt was more
`
` 11:46:37 15 appropriate, in light of all the claims, which is
`
` 16 that the whole phrase is a description -- repeated
`
` 17 description of the processors.
`
` 18 So you -- the one that you applied --
`
` 19 strike that.
`
` 11:46:56 20 So the claim interpretation that you
`
` 21 applied is the one where the processors would have,
`
` 22 in general, circuitry and code designed to execute
`
` 23 instructions.
`
` 24 But that circuitry and code designed to
`
` 11:47:18 25 execute instructions isn't necessarily designed to
`
` 19
`
` **ROUGH DRAFT OF RAJENDRA SHAH**
`
` 11:47:30 1 make the determination of whether the building is
`
` 2 occupied or unoccupied, for example, just looking
`
` 3 at that element --
`
` 4 MR. SMITH: Object to form.
`
` 11:47:37 5 Q. (By Mr. Mirzaie) -- correct?
`
` 6 A. As I said, in that particular element,
`
`GOOGLE V. ECOFACTOR
`IPR2021-00054
`Exhibit 2015
`Page 22
`
`
`
` 7 the circuitry, I don't think, is associated with
`
` 8 making the determination of the code, you know,
`
` 9 is -- the code and instructions are, because that's
`
` 11:47:54 10 how the processor operates.
`
` 11 Q. Got it.
`
` 12 And just looking at this -- strike that.
`
` 13 Okay. And if we move down to the next
`
` 14 element.
`
` 11:48:30 15 A. Okay. Well, can you recite it.
`
` 16 Q. Yes. Absolutely. Sorry. Yeah.
`
` 17 The next element after the semicolon. So
`
` 18 it's the "wherein" clause. I'll recite the whole
`
` 19 element.
`
` 11:48:43 20 "Wherein the one or more processors
`
` 21 compromises a first processor with circuitry and
`
` 22 code designed to execute instructions, which is
`
` 23 located remotely from the memory and is not
`
` 24 electrically connected to the memory;"
`
` 11:49:05 25 Do you see that?
`
` 20
`
` **ROUGH DRAFT OF RAJENDRA SHAH**
`
` 11:49:06 1 A. Yes.
`
` 2 Q. And I'd like to understand your customary
`
` 3 and ordinary meaning, in light of the patent
`
`GOOGLE V. ECOFACTOR
`IPR2021-00054
`Exhibit 2015
`Page 23
`
`
`
` 4 specification for "located remotely from the
`
` 11:49:21 5 memory."
`
` 6 A. The -- so with --
`
` 7 MR. SMITH: Objection. Sorry.
`
` 8 THE DEPONENT: Go ahead.
`
` 9 Talking about the location of the first
`
` 11:49:35 10 processor with respect to the memory. And the
`
` 11 "located remotely" would say they are like not next
`
` 12 to each other. They're separated by some -- some
`
` 13 amount of space.
`
` 14 Q. (By Mr. Mirzaie) There's also an
`
` 11:49:58 15 additional requirement right after that, that the
`
` 16 first processor cannot be "electrically connected"
`
` 17 to that memory, correct?
`
` 18 A. Right. I see it.
`
` 19 Q. And what's your ordinary and customary
`
` 11:50:14 20 meaning of electrically connected?
`
` 21 MR. SMITH: Object to form.
`
` 22 THE DEPONENT: I would -- as I would
`
` 23 think any person of skills in the art would have
`
` 24 interpreted this in that time frame, when something
`
` 11:50:33 25 is electrically connected it is intended to signify
`
` 21
`
`GOOGLE V. ECOFACTOR
`IPR2021-00054
`Exhibit 2015
`Page 24
`
`
`
` **ROUGH DRAFT OF RAJENDRA SHAH**
`
` 11:50:38 1 that there is a hardwired electric connection
`
` 2 and/or they're just physically electrically
`
` 3 connected through circuit or some other electrical
`
` 4 connect
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