`
`New World Medical, Inc. v Microsurgical Technology, Inc., et al.
`Peter Netland, M.D. Ph.D. Vol III
`
`Page 1
`
` 1
`
` 2
`
` 3
`
` 4
`
` 5
`
` 6
`
` 7
`
` 8
`
` 9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
`****************************************************
`NEW WORLD MEDICAL, INC.,
`
` Petitioner, Case IPR2020-01711
` US Patent No. 9,358,155
` -vs-
`
`MICROSURGICAL TECHNOLOGY, INC.,
`
` Patent Owner.
`
`****************************************************
`NEW WORLD MEDICAL, INC.,
`
` Petitioner, Case IPR2021-00017
` US Patent No. 9,820,885
` -vs-
`
`MICROSURGICAL TECHNOLOGY, INC.,
`
` Patent Owner.
`
`****************************************************
`NEW WORLD MEDICAL, INC.,
`
` Petitioner, Case IPR2021-00066
` US Patent No. 9,999,544
` -vs-
`
`THE REGENTS OF THE UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA,
`
` Patent Owner.
`
`****************************************************
`
`VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF PETER NETLAND, M.D., Ph.D.
`
` 9:00 a.m. to 2:19 p.m.
` September 30, 2021
` Charlottesville, Virginia
`
`Job No. 46230/37039
`
` REPORTED BY: Kimberly A. Adderley, RPR, RMR
`
`Reported by Kimberly A Adderley
`
`Patent Owner Ex. 2032-0001
`
`
`
`9/30/2021
`
`New World Medical, Inc. v Microsurgical Technology, Inc., et al.
`Peter Netland, M.D. Ph.D. Vol III
`
`Page 2
`
` 1
`
` 2
`
` 3
`
` 4
`
` 5
`
` 6
`
` 7
`
` 8
`
` 9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
`****************************************************
`NEW WORLD MEDICAL, INC.,
`
` Petitioner, Case IPR2021-00065
` US Patent No.10,123,905
` -vs-
`
`MICROSURGICAL TECHNOLOGY, INC.,
`
` Patent Owner.
`
`****************************************************
`NEW WORLD MEDICAL, INC.,
`
` Petitioner, Case IPR2020-01573
` US Patent No. 9,107,729
` -vs-
`
`MICROSURGICAL TECHNOLOGY, INC.,
`
` Patent Owner.
`
`****************************************************
`
`VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF PETER NETLAND, M.D., Ph.D.
`
` 9:00 a.m. to 2:19 p.m.
`
` September 30, 2021
`
` Charlottesville, Virginia
`
`Job No. 46230/37039
`
` REPORTED BY: Kimberly A. Adderley, RPR, RMR
`
`Reported by Kimberly A Adderley
`
`Patent Owner Ex. 2032-0002
`
`
`
`9/30/2021
`
`New World Medical, Inc. v Microsurgical Technology, Inc., et al.
`Peter Netland, M.D. Ph.D. Vol III
`
`Page 3
`
` 1
`
` 2
`
` 3
`
` 4
`
` 5
`
` 6
`
` 7
`
` 8
`
` 9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` Videotaped deposition of PETER NETLAND, M.D.,
`
`Ph.D., taken and transcribed on behalf of the Patent
`
`Owners, by and before Kimberly A. Adderley, RPR,
`
`RMR, Notary Public in and for the Commonwealth of
`
`Virginia at large, pursuant to 37 CFR 42.53 and the
`
`Board's authorization, and by Notice to Take
`
`Deposition; commencing at 9:16 a.m., September 30,
`
`2021, at Courtyard by Marriott, 1201 West Main
`
`Street, Charlottesville, Virginia.
`
` APPEARANCES OF COUNSEL:
`
` CALFEE, HALTER & GRISWOLD, LLP
`
` The Calfee Building
`
` 1405 East Sixth Street
`
` Cleveland, Ohio 44114
`
` (216) 622-8551
`
` ttucker@calfee.com
`
` BY: TODD R. TUCKER, ESQUIRE
`
` Counsel for the Petitioner
`
`Reported by Kimberly A Adderley
`
`Patent Owner Ex. 2032-0003
`
`
`
`9/30/2021
`
`New World Medical, Inc. v Microsurgical Technology, Inc., et al.
`Peter Netland, M.D. Ph.D. Vol III
`
`Page 4
`
` 1
`
` 2
`
` 3
`
` 4
`
` 5
`
` 6
`
` 7
`
` 8
`
` 9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` APPEARANCES OF COUNSEL CONT'D:
`
` WILEY REIN, LLP
`
` 1776 K Street, NW
`
` Washington, D.C. 20006
`
` (202) 719-7000
`
` tsummers@wiley.law
`
` BY: TERESA M. SUMMERS, ESQUIRE
`
` JASMINE ZHU, ESQUIRE
`
` Counsel for the Patent Owners
`
`ALSO PRESENT:
`
`David J. Klann, General Counsel
`New World Medical, Inc.
`
`Orson Braithwaite, Videographer
`
`Reported by Kimberly A Adderley
`
`Patent Owner Ex. 2032-0004
`
`
`
`9/30/2021
`
`New World Medical, Inc. v Microsurgical Technology, Inc., et al.
`Peter Netland, M.D. Ph.D. Vol III
`
`Page 5
`
` 1
`
` 2
`
` 3
`
` 4
`
` 5
`
` 6
`
` 7
`
` 8
`
` 9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` I N D E X
`
` WITNESS:
`
` PETER NETLAND, M.D., Ph.D.
`
` Examination by Ms. Summers................9
`
` E X H I B I T S
`
` NETLAND PAGE
`
` 1 - Copy of Notes made on notepad 213
`
` PETITIONER'S PAGE
`
` 1003 - Declaration of Dr. Peter Netland 11
`
` 1004 - Documenta Ophthalmologica 105
` Proceedings Series 43
`
` 1030 - Reply Declaration of 9
` Dr. Peter Netland
`
` 1031 - Video 93
`
` 1032 - Video 93
`
` 1033 - Video 93
`
` 1035 - Symposium: Microsurgery of the 206
` Outflow Channels
` Clinical Research
`
` 1036 - Symposium: Microsurgery of the 208
` Outflow Channels
` Histologic Evaluation of
` Microsurgical Glaucoma Techniques
`
` 1037 - ModifIed Goniotomy for 210
` Inflammatory Glaucoma
`
` 1038 - Stripping of Descemet's Membrane 211
` in Cataract Extraction
`
` * * * * *
`
`Reported by Kimberly A Adderley
`
`Patent Owner Ex. 2032-0005
`
`
`
`9/30/2021
`
`New World Medical, Inc. v Microsurgical Technology, Inc., et al.
`Peter Netland, M.D. Ph.D. Vol III
`
`Page 6
`
` 1
`
` 2
`
` 3
`
` 4
`
` 5
`
` 6
`
` 7
`
` 8
`
` 9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`PATENT OWNER'S PAGE
`
` 2020-0001 - Sworn Affidavit of 194
` Manuel Quintana, M.D.
`
` * * * * *
`
` (Petitioner's Exhibits and Patent Owner's
`
` Exhibits premarked by Counsel)
`
` * * * * *
`
`Reported by Kimberly A Adderley
`
`Patent Owner Ex. 2032-0006
`
`
`
`9/30/2021
`
`New World Medical, Inc. v Microsurgical Technology, Inc., et al.
`Peter Netland, M.D. Ph.D. Vol III
`
`Page 7
`
` 1
`
` 2
`
` 3
`
` 4
`
` 5
`
` 6
`
` 7
`
` 8
`
` 9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`(9:16 a.m., September 30, 2021)
`
` P R O C E E D I N G S:
`
` THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Good morning. We
`
` are going on the record at 9:16 a.m. on
`
` September 30th, 2021. This deposition is the
`
` continuation of Dr. Peter Netland, Volume
`
` III.
`
` Will the court reporter please swear in
`
` the witness.
`
` THE STENOGRAPHER: Sir, if you will
`
` raise your right hand for me, I'm going to
`
` swear you in.
`
` Do you swear or affirm that any
`
` testimony you are about to give shall be the
`
` truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the
`
` truth?
`
` DR. NETLAND: I swear.
`
` THE STENOGRAPHER: Thank you.
`
` THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Please introduce
`
` yourself.
`
` MS. SUMMERS: My name is Teresa
`
` Summers, I'm with Wiley Rein, and I represent
`
` the patent owners in these proceedings,
`
`Reported by Kimberly A Adderley
`
`Patent Owner Ex. 2032-0007
`
`
`
`9/30/2021
`
`New World Medical, Inc. v Microsurgical Technology, Inc., et al.
`Peter Netland, M.D. Ph.D. Vol III
`
`Page 8
`
` Microsurgical Technology and The Regents of
`
` The University of California. And with me is
`
` Jasmine Zhu, also from Wiley Rein.
`
` MR. TUCKER: Todd Tucker, from Calfee,
`
` Halter & Griswold, Cleveland, Ohio, for
`
` petitioner New World Medical, Inc. With me
`
` is the general counsel of New World Medical,
`
` Inc., David Klann.
`
` Also, just so we have on the record, I
`
` believe the ground rules for today, by
`
` agreement of counsel, is 6 hours of
`
` examination, followed by a potential 30
`
` minutes of redirect, and this is a deposition
`
` to focus on the supplemental reply
`
` declarations of Dr. Netland.
`
` THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Thank you. You may
`
` begin.
`
` THE STENOGRAPHER: He's been sworn.
`
` MS. SUMMERS: Oh, he has.
`
` * * * * *
`
` 1
`
` 2
`
` 3
`
` 4
`
` 5
`
` 6
`
` 7
`
` 8
`
` 9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`Reported by Kimberly A Adderley
`
`Patent Owner Ex. 2032-0008
`
`
`
`9/30/2021
`
`New World Medical, Inc. v Microsurgical Technology, Inc., et al.
`Peter Netland, M.D. Ph.D. Vol III
`
`Page 9
`
` 1
`
` 2
`
` 3
`
` 4
`
` 5
`
` 6
`
` 7
`
` 8
`
` 9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` PETER NETLAND, M.D., Ph.D.,
`
` was sworn and testified as follows:
`
` E X A M I N A T I O N
`
`BY MS. SUMMERS:
`
` Q. All right. Dr. Netland, in advance of
`
` this deposition, I put in front of you several
`
` exhibits that are premarked. Do you see those
`
` exhibits in front of you?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. Okay. Now I'm just going to do a
`
` little housekeeping, which is to read off the
`
` exhibit numbers for the --
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. -- record, just so the record has it
`
` indicated what is in front of you right now.
`
` So, in the small stack that you are
`
` touching, that is all of your reply declarations
`
` in each of the various 5 IPRs. And they have been
`
` prenumbered with exhibit numbers submitted in each
`
` of those IPRs, and those exhibit numbers are shown
`
` down in the right hand bottom of every page. Do
`
` you see that?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. Okay. So then during the course of
`
` this deposition, we can refer to these as either
`
`Reported by Kimberly A Adderley
`
`Patent Owner Ex. 2032-0009
`
`
`
`9/30/2021
`
`New World Medical, Inc. v Microsurgical Technology, Inc., et al.
`Peter Netland, M.D. Ph.D. Vol III
`
`Page 10
`
` 1
`
` 2
`
` 3
`
` 4
`
` 5
`
` 6
`
` 7
`
` 8
`
` 9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` the reply declaration for the 1573 IPR or for the
`
` 729 patent, and so forth and so on. Are you
`
` comfortable with that?
`
` A. Yes. I have one question about --
`
` Q. Sure.
`
` A. So, all of these have the same exhibit
`
` number?
`
` Q. Correct.
`
` A. Does that mean that all of these are
`
` one exhibit?
`
` Q. So, each one, if you look at the
`
` caption, you will see that it says the IPR that it
`
` relates to --
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. -- and the patent number.
`
` A. I'm aware of that.
`
` Q. Okay.
`
` A. But the exhibit numbers are all the
`
` same.
`
` Q. That is correct.
`
` A. So, this is one exhibit and we will
`
` refer to the different documents by the IPR
`
` number, patent number on it?
`
` Q. You are correct, yes.
`
` A. Okay.
`
`Reported by Kimberly A Adderley
`
`Patent Owner Ex. 2032-0010
`
`
`
`9/30/2021
`
`New World Medical, Inc. v Microsurgical Technology, Inc., et al.
`Peter Netland, M.D. Ph.D. Vol III
`
`Page 11
`
` 1
`
` 2
`
` 3
`
` 4
`
` 5
`
` 6
`
` 7
`
` 8
`
` 9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` Q. And then in the tall stack, it's the
`
` very same situation, except that it is for your
`
` opening declaration in each of the various IPRs.
`
` And just take a moment to familiarize yourself.
`
` A. Yes. And confirmation, the same
`
` question, it's the same exhibit number and we will
`
` refer to them by the patent number or case number.
`
` Q. That is correct.
`
` A. Okay.
`
` Q. And that's -- you are comfortable
`
` proceeding --
`
` A. I'm comfortable with --
`
` Q. -- that way?
`
` A. -- that.
`
` Q. Okay.
`
` A. Thanks.
`
` Q. So, I know that you have been deposed
`
` before; correct?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. And we patent owners in these five IPRs
`
` took your deposition previously for these cases;
`
` correct?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. Okay. And are you familiar with the
`
` ground rules for deposition, do you recall them,
`
`Reported by Kimberly A Adderley
`
`Patent Owner Ex. 2032-0011
`
`
`
`9/30/2021
`
`New World Medical, Inc. v Microsurgical Technology, Inc., et al.
`Peter Netland, M.D. Ph.D. Vol III
`
`Page 12
`
` 1
`
` 2
`
` 3
`
` 4
`
` 5
`
` 6
`
` 7
`
` 8
`
` 9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` or would you like me --
`
` A. Yes. I would like them to be reviewed
`
` though.
`
` Q. Okay.
`
` A. Yeah.
`
` Q. No problem whatsoever. All right. So,
`
` you understand you are under oath today and you
`
` must answer accurately and truthfully; correct?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. We need a verbal answer.
`
` A. Yeah. I said it too softly, I'm sorry.
`
` I affirmatively responded yes.
`
` Q. All right. Great.
`
` A. Uh-huh.
`
` Q. And that was my next reminder, is that
`
` we need verbal answers and to please speak loudly
`
` enough for the record. Thank you very much.
`
` And during the course of this
`
` deposition, your counsel may object to some of my
`
` questions. And that's fine, but you must still
`
` continue to answer the question unless he
`
` instructs you specifically not to answer that
`
` question. Okay?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. And every now and then we will take a
`
`Reported by Kimberly A Adderley
`
`Patent Owner Ex. 2032-0012
`
`
`
`9/30/2021
`
`New World Medical, Inc. v Microsurgical Technology, Inc., et al.
`Peter Netland, M.D. Ph.D. Vol III
`
`Page 13
`
` 1
`
` 2
`
` 3
`
` 4
`
` 5
`
` 6
`
` 7
`
` 8
`
` 9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` break, roughly every hour. But if you at any time
`
` feel like you need a short break, just speak up
`
` and we will accommodate you.
`
` A. Yes. Thank you.
`
` Q. Also, if you do not understand my
`
` question, just feel free to ask me to repeat it
`
` and I will be happy to try to clarify. And I will
`
` do the same for you with your answers, so that we
`
` make sure we are under a common understanding.
`
` Okay?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. Okay. So, now, with respect to your
`
` various reply declarations, would you agree with
`
` me that they are essentially identical?
`
` A. They are -- I would say that they are
`
` very similar.
`
` Q. Okay. And what are like the
`
` differences amongst them?
`
` A. Well, they refer to different patent
`
` numbers, the patents that have claims that are
`
` relevant to this.
`
` Q. Right.
`
` A. To this experiment.
`
` Q. And in terms of the substance or the
`
` material aspects, they are -- it's the same
`
`Reported by Kimberly A Adderley
`
`Patent Owner Ex. 2032-0013
`
`
`
`9/30/2021
`
`New World Medical, Inc. v Microsurgical Technology, Inc., et al.
`Peter Netland, M.D. Ph.D. Vol III
`
`Page 14
`
` 1
`
` 2
`
` 3
`
` 4
`
` 5
`
` 6
`
` 7
`
` 8
`
` 9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` throughout every declaration; right?
`
` A. The substance, the content is similar
`
` and identical in some sections.
`
` Q. Okay.
`
` A. Uh-huh.
`
` Q. Thank you. All right. So, we are
`
` going to refer to, predominantly to the reply
`
` declaration in the 1573 IPR which relates to the
`
` patent number ending in 729. All right. Do you
`
` have that in front of you?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. So, I'm going to ask you some
`
` questions, but if you need to refresh your memory
`
` and look at your declaration, you have got them
`
` all there, so you can feel comfortable to do so.
`
` So, in your reply declaration, you have
`
` various -- you have a section in there that talks
`
` about the materials you considered in forming your
`
` opinions in your reply declarations. Do you
`
` recall reviewing specific materials?
`
` A. Let me get on the section you're
`
` referring to. Are you referring to introduction
`
` section four?
`
` Q. Yeah.
`
` A. I ask because, to clarify, there were
`
`Reported by Kimberly A Adderley
`
`Patent Owner Ex. 2032-0014
`
`
`
`9/30/2021
`
`New World Medical, Inc. v Microsurgical Technology, Inc., et al.
`Peter Netland, M.D. Ph.D. Vol III
`
`Page 15
`
` 1
`
` 2
`
` 3
`
` 4
`
` 5
`
` 6
`
` 7
`
` 8
`
` 9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` different materials. There's a new reference and,
`
` you know, that was referred to. And then there
`
` were some other references to referrals. So, I'm
`
` just trying to clarify where we are, you know,
`
` which ones.
`
` Q. Sure, no problem.
`
` A. Yeah.
`
` Q. What were some of the new references
`
` that you have --
`
` A. Just the Arora reference.
`
` Q. The Arora?
`
` A. Which was an experimental method
`
` reference which, yeah, it was relevant to this in
`
` the sense that it provided a precedent or a
`
` literature validation of the method.
`
` Q. Okay.
`
` A. That was used to do these.
`
` Q. All right.
`
` A. So, yeah.
`
` Q. Did you read patent owner's response to
`
` the petition?
`
` A. I did review it. And I read it to the
`
` extent I could. It's a lot of material.
`
` Q. Did you rely on any statements in that
`
` document in forming your opinion for your reply
`
`Reported by Kimberly A Adderley
`
`Patent Owner Ex. 2032-0015
`
`
`
`9/30/2021
`
`New World Medical, Inc. v Microsurgical Technology, Inc., et al.
`Peter Netland, M.D. Ph.D. Vol III
`
`Page 16
`
` 1
`
` 2
`
` 3
`
` 4
`
` 5
`
` 6
`
` 7
`
` 8
`
` 9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` declaration?
`
` A. I didn't focus on that. This is a
`
` pretty tightly focused set experiment that
`
` focusing on removal of tissue from the trabecular
`
` meshwork and cutting tissue and so forth. So, I
`
` looked at there were some materials that were not
`
` directly relevant, in the responses that were not
`
` directly relevant to this set of -- this
`
` experiment.
`
` Q. And did you read the Board
`
` institution's decision in each of the IPRs?
`
` A. The Board institution? No, I may not
`
` have seen that. I have materials, I don't know if
`
` I reviewed that. I don't recall on that one.
`
` Q. Okay.
`
` A. Uh-huh.
`
` Q. So, a moment ago you mentioned some
`
` experiments; is that right?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. All right. So, in your declaration you
`
` describe in some detail three experiments; is that
`
` correct?
`
` A. Right. That's a good way to look at
`
` it. I think it's -- it could be categorized as
`
` one experiment with three different samples as
`
`Reported by Kimberly A Adderley
`
`Patent Owner Ex. 2032-0016
`
`
`
`9/30/2021
`
`New World Medical, Inc. v Microsurgical Technology, Inc., et al.
`Peter Netland, M.D. Ph.D. Vol III
`
`Page 17
`
` 1
`
` 2
`
` 3
`
` 4
`
` 5
`
` 6
`
` 7
`
` 8
`
` 9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` well. It's really one test, one experiment
`
` with -- I think of it as one experiment with three
`
` different samples.
`
` Q. And did you --
`
` A. There were four technically, but the
`
` first sample we were just setting it up and had a
`
` none -- no video set up on an old microscope at --
`
` I'm just going to clarify a little bit of the
`
` background so you understand what happened.
`
` Q. Please.
`
` A. We set up, you know, the microscope,
`
` and it was in the Old Medical School here, no
`
` video. And we needed to capture the information,
`
` so we went to the surgery center and used our
`
` normal setup for human goniotomy, and that had a
`
` video and also adequate optics to capture images
`
` so that we could document the last three samples
`
` that were used in this one experiment.
`
` The experiment was essentially the same
`
` methodology for all, all the samples that were
`
` used, but there were four different samples. The
`
` first one was mentioned, it really wasn't recorded
`
` because we couldn't. But we moved to a location
`
` where we could record -- we had a video setup that
`
` didn't work, et cetera, et cetera, so we moved to
`
`Reported by Kimberly A Adderley
`
`Patent Owner Ex. 2032-0017
`
`
`
`9/30/2021
`
`New World Medical, Inc. v Microsurgical Technology, Inc., et al.
`Peter Netland, M.D. Ph.D. Vol III
`
`Page 18
`
` 1
`
` 2
`
` 3
`
` 4
`
` 5
`
` 6
`
` 7
`
` 8
`
` 9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` a location where we could record the sample
`
` treatments that we did.
`
` Q. All right. We are going to circle back
`
` to that. The first experiment that you did that
`
` wasn't actually videoed --
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. -- we will circle back --
`
` A. Yes. Sure.
`
` Q. -- to that in just a moment. But thank
`
` you for that clarification.
`
` All right. So, when did you perform
`
` these four -- this experiment on four samples?
`
` A. I would have to look at my calendar to
`
` verify the date. And I'm happy to do that. I
`
` don't recall from memory the exact date, but I'm
`
` glad to check that if you would like.
`
` Q. Sure. That would be -- yeah, that's
`
` fine.
`
` A. It will take me a minute.
`
` (Witness looking on his cellphone)
`
` A. Okay. We are getting warmer.
`
` August 13th. And I would include the 12th as
`
` well. August 12th and 13th. I was setting up
`
`Reported by Kimberly A Adderley
`
`Patent Owner Ex. 2032-0018
`
`
`
`9/30/2021
`
`New World Medical, Inc. v Microsurgical Technology, Inc., et al.
`Peter Netland, M.D. Ph.D. Vol III
`
`Page 19
`
` 1
`
` 2
`
` 3
`
` 4
`
` 5
`
` 6
`
` 7
`
` 8
`
` 9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` some things on the 12th, receiving materials and
`
` setting some things up.
`
` Q. Okay. You can put your device away
`
` now.
`
` A. Okay. Thank you.
`
` MR. TUCKER: And what year was that,
`
` you want to give that?
`
` THE WITNESS: Oh, sorry. 2021.
`
` August 13th, 2021. And I will show you, I'm
`
` just looking at my calendar, that's all.
`
`BY MS. SUMMERS:
`
` Q. Sure.
`
` A. No other notes.
`
` Q. I trust you.
`
` A. Thank you.
`
` Q. Okay. So, on August 12th of this year,
`
` you set up your facilities?
`
` A. Received some materials. There -- you
`
` know, things had to be shipped in to do the
`
` testing and I had to receive some materials, which
`
` came in, I think, on the 12th. Once we were
`
` confirmed that we had the materials, we could go,
`
` plan a go on the next day. And then we went ahead
`
` and did the testing on the next day. So, we had
`
` to organize a little bit in the sense that we
`
`Reported by Kimberly A Adderley
`
`Patent Owner Ex. 2032-0019
`
`
`
`9/30/2021
`
`New World Medical, Inc. v Microsurgical Technology, Inc., et al.
`Peter Netland, M.D. Ph.D. Vol III
`
`Page 20
`
` 1
`
` 2
`
` 3
`
` 4
`
` 5
`
` 6
`
` 7
`
` 8
`
` 9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` didn't have all the materials on site. Obviously
`
` human tissue, you know, it has to be shipped in.
`
` And so, we had to gather that and really couldn't
`
` really go ahead with the experiments until we had
`
` all the essential materials, which mainly was the
`
` human tissue. So, that arrived the day before.
`
` Q. Okay. And you mentioned "we" in those
`
` statements.
`
` A. Right.
`
` Q. Who was all --
`
` A. So, there were really several people
`
` involved, but the only people -- we have a
`
` research coordinator, and so she received the
`
` materials and helped us to -- helped me and helped
`
` us to, you know, coordinate the facility here at
`
` the Old Medical School. That's research based
`
` that we control, that I control, I guess you could
`
` say. So, we set up the -- you know, planned, did
`
` a little advance planning and set things up and
`
` got the materials and so forth. And so, my team
`
` that does clinical research is a group of about
`
` five people. But, the only person directly
`
` involved in this was the head of that, Ashton
`
` Leone, A-S-H-T-E-O-N-E, Leone L-E-O-N-E. She
`
` received the materials and coordinated and helped
`
`Reported by Kimberly A Adderley
`
`Patent Owner Ex. 2032-0020
`
`
`
`9/30/2021
`
`New World Medical, Inc. v Microsurgical Technology, Inc., et al.
`Peter Netland, M.D. Ph.D. Vol III
`
`Page 21
`
` 1
`
` 2
`
` 3
`
` 4
`
` 5
`
` 6
`
` 7
`
` 8
`
` 9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` us to get organized but had no direct involvement
`
` with any of the experiments. And then the two
`
` people that were there the next day to do the
`
` experiments was myself and then Kyle. And I've
`
` got to get the spelling of the last name correct,
`
` so may I ask Todd?
`
` MR. TUCKER: It's Deighan, D-E-I --
`
` THE WITNESS: G-H.
`
` MR. TUCKER: G-H-A-N.
`
` THE WITNESS: A-N. Okay. Right. SO,
`
` I just want to make sure we get it correct
`
` for the record. So, Kyle and I did the
`
` experiments. Kyle had no direct involvement,
`
` was in a purely supportive role. He does not
`
` have -- I would say it's fair to say, I don't
`
` think he would object if I said that he
`
` doesn't have medical knowledge. You know,
`
` he's a very knowledgeable person, but doesn't
`
` have medical knowledge. But he was very
`
` supportive. You know, I had to video and set
`
` things up and bring things from place to
`
` place and organize and so forth. So, in
`
` terms of support, there was some support
`
` needed and Kyle was on site to help with
`
` that. But, I actually did the entire thing
`
`Reported by Kimberly A Adderley
`
`Patent Owner Ex. 2032-0021
`
`
`
`9/30/2021
`
`New World Medical, Inc. v Microsurgical Technology, Inc., et al.
`Peter Netland, M.D. Ph.D. Vol III
`
`Page 22
`
` 1
`
` 2
`
` 3
`
` 4
`
` 5
`
` 6
`
` 7
`
` 8
`
` 9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` myself.
`
`BY MS. SUMMERS:
`
` Q. Was anyone else with you other than
`
` Kyle?
`
` A. No. I have many trainees and people
`
` around, but I did it all myself. I thought it was
`
` important to do it.
`
` Q. Was anyone else observing the
`
` experiments you performed?
`
` A. No. And that's one of the reasons
`
` we -- that I felt it was important to video
`
` capture the images, yeah. So...
`
` Q. And on the first day when you were
`
` receiving the materials, who all was involved in
`
` that?
`
` A. Really I guess there was a third
`
` person, perhaps. Ruth Jolly, perhaps. She's now
`
` retired and her replacement is Stephanie
`
` Kandetzki. If you would like, I can spell the
`
` names. But perhaps she received some phone calls.
`
` But then Ashton would have been the only other
`
` person. So, I think my administrative assistant
`
` may have been involved in some coordination of
`
` phone calls. I don't recall. I know she set
`
` up -- she coordinated the visit a little bit with
`
`Reported by Kimberly A Adderley
`
`Patent Owner Ex. 2032-0022
`
`
`
`9/30/2021
`
`New World Medical, Inc. v Microsurgical Technology, Inc., et al.
`Peter Netland, M.D. Ph.D. Vol III
`
`Page 23
`
` 1
`
` 2
`
` 3
`
` 4
`
` 5
`
` 6
`
` 7
`
` 8
`
` 9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` Kyle. But I don't recall. So, she's the only
`
` other person that could have been involved with
`
` any aspect of this. So, her name is Ruth Jolly,
`
` J-O-L-L-Y. And the other person is Stephanie
`
` Kandetzki, who was phasing in and becoming her
`
` replacement. And it's K-A-N-D-E-T-Z-K-I,
`
` Kandetzki. So, those are the only people that
`
` would have been involved.
`
` Q. Okay.
`
` A. Administrative and technical support.
`
` Q. And Kyle, the Kyle you mentioned who
`
` was there during the course of each of the four
`
` experiments, he is your attorney in this case; is
`
` that correct?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. And Ashtone?
`
` A. Ashton, right.
`
` Q. Ashton.
`
` A. Ashton, uh-huh, leone. She's an
`
` employee for our group. So, I supervise her and
`
` she coordinates a lot of our clinical research.
`
` And, you know, these kinds of experiments and so
`
` forth, we have a lot of regulations and rules and
`
` policies about doing experimental work. So, she's
`
` responsible for coordinating our clinical trials,
`
`Reported by Kimberly A Adderley
`
`Patent Owner Ex. 2032-0023
`
`
`
`9/30/2021
`
`New World Medical, Inc. v Microsurgical Technology, Inc., et al.
`Peter Netland, M.D. Ph.D. Vol III
`
`Page 24
`
` 1
`
` 2
`
` 3
`
` 4
`
` 5
`
` 6
`
` 7
`
` 8
`
` 9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` making sure that we are in compliance, and is
`
` involved in virtually all use of experimental
`
` equipment and supplies and experiments done on
`
` site.
`
` Q. And where were these experiments
`
` performed?
`
` A. So, the first one where we were
`
` essentially just seeing if it -- seeing how it
`
` worked and setting it up and trialing and
`
` understanding how the model worked, was in the Old
`
` Medical School here at UVA in a clinical research
`
` space, which is departmental space in our
`
` department. We realized we had to get a little
`
` bit better equipment from the initial testing to
`
` try to make sure that we could observe and see the
`
` things and then, more importantly, record. So we
`
` moved to Monticello Surgery Center, which is our
`
` main UVA-owned surgery center, formerly a
`
` physician-owned surgery center, now this year sold
`
` to UVA, so it's a UVA facility on 29 North. So,
`
` it's called Monticello Surgery Center.
`
` So, the actual samples were evaluated
`
` and the testing done in Monticello Surgery Center.
`
` And the advantage of that move to move out there
`
` was mainly the microscope recording equipment.
`
`Reported by Kimberly A Adderley
`
`Patent Owner Ex. 2032-0024
`
`
`
`9/30/2021
`
`New World Medical, Inc. v Microsurgical Technology, Inc., et al.
`Peter Netland, M.D. Ph.D. Vol III
`
`Page 25
`
` 1
`
` 2
`
` 3
`
` 4
`
` 5
`
` 6
`
` 7
`
` 8
`
` 9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` The microscope is a Zeiss Lumera, which is the top
`
` of the line, best microscope possible. And I
`
` think that's reflected in the quality of the
`
` video. The video is quite clear, it's sharp, it
`
` has high resolution, and it's digitally recorded.
`
` And that's possible, the quality of the optics
`
` with the Zeiss Lumera is essentially top of the
`
` line, highest quality available. So, that's --
`
` that was important to try to get some good optics,
`
` good recording equipment, because we found quite
`
` quickly, just from seeing it, that the equipment
`
` was the limitation and the thing that was
`
` inadequate in the first sample. We just
`
` couldn't -- you know, the testing went fine, but
`
` we couldn't record it properly. The actual video
`
` recorder, you know, old, not working, not digital
`
` even.
`
` The lab that we have here is used for
`
` clinical research, but it's also used for training
`
` trainees, the one for the first sample. So, we
`
` don't really have state-of-the-art equipment there
`
` and good video capture equipment. The purpose is
`
` really for education and to train people. So,
`
` it's not set up really to do proper recording.
`
` So, we did the last three samples in a
`
`Reported by Kimberly A Adderley
`
`Patent Owner Ex. 2032-0025
`
`
`
`9/30/2021
`
`New World Medical, Inc. v Microsurgical Technology, Inc., et al.
`Peter Netland, M.D. Ph.D. Vol III
`
`Page 26
`
` 1
`
` 2
`
` 3
`
` 4
`
` 5
`
` 6
`
` 7
`
` 8
`
` 9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` place where we could properly record and have the
`
` highest quality equipment possible.
`
` Q. Okay. We -- thank you for that
`
` detailed explanation. We are going to circle back
`
` to some of the things. I took notes on your
`
` statements, we will circle back to those. But,
`
` first I'm just going to ask you a couple further
`
` background questions about the experiments
`
` generally. So, all right, so you said that you
`
` first performed the experiments on August 13th,
`
` and you did set up on the 12th. And on what,
`
` roughly what date did you first consider
`
` performing the experiments?
`
` A. I don't know the exact date. Again, I
`
` can try to hone in on it by looking at my calendar
`
` again, but it was between the time of the
`
` responses to when we did the experiments. And I
`
` think my recollect would be it was about a month
`
` or so before the actual experiments