2
`UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`
`BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`______________________________________________________
`NEW WORLD MEDICAL, INC. ,
`
` Petitioner,
` Case IPR2021-00065
` -vs- U.S. Patent No. 10,123,905
`
`MICROSURGICAL TECHNOLOGY, INC.,
`
`Patent Owner.
`______________________________________________________
`NEW WORLD MEDICAL, INC.,
`
` Petitioner,
` Case IPR2020-01573
` -vs- U.S. Patent No. 9,107,729
`
`MICROSURGICAL TECHNOLOGY, INC.,
`
`
`Patent Owner.
`______________________________________________________
`
`
`
`VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF PETER NETLAND, M.D., Ph.D.
`
`9:14 a.m. to 4:24 p.m.
`May 27, 2021
`Charlottesville, Virginia
`
`
`
`Job No. 45352/4590692
`REPORTED BY: Rhonda D. Tuck, RPR, CRR
`
` 4
`APPEARANCES OF COUNSEL CONTINUED:
`
`
`WILEY REIN LLP
` 1776 K Street, NW
` Washington, D.C. 20006
` (202) 719-7000
` lsung@wiley.law
`tsummers@wiley.law
`BY: LAWRENCE M. SUNG, ESQUIRE
`TERESA M. SUMMERS, ESQUIRE
`Counsel on behalf of the Patent Owners
`
`
`
`
`ALSO PRESENT:
`David J. Klann, General Counsel
`New World Medical, Inc.
`
`Gordon Croll - Videographer
`
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`UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`
`
`
`BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`______________________________________________________
`NEW WORLD MEDICAL, INC. ,
`
` Petitioner,
`
` Case IPR2020-01711
` -vs- U.S. Patent No. 9,358,155
`
`MICROSURGICAL TECHNOLOGY, INC.,
`
`
`Patent Owner.
`______________________________________________________
`NEW WORLD MEDICAL, INC. ,
`
` Petitioner,
`
` Case IPR2021-00017
` -vs- U.S. Patent No. 9,820,885
`
`MICROSURGICAL TECHNOLOGY, INC.,
`
`
`Patent Owner.
`______________________________________________________
`NEW WORLD MEDICAL, INC. ,
`
` Petitioner,
`
` Case IPR2021-00066
` -vs- U.S. Patent No. 9,999,544
`
`THE REGENTS OF THE UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA ,
`
` Patent Owner .
`______________________________________________________
`
`
`
`
`VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF PETER NETLAND, M.D., Ph.D.
`
`9:14 a.m. to 4:24 p.m.
`May 27, 2021
`Charlottesville, Virginia
`
`Job No. 45352/4590692
`REPORTED BY: Rhonda D. Tuck, RPR, CRR
`
` 3
`Videotaped deposition of PETER NETLAND, M.D.,
`Ph.D., taken and transcribed on behalf of the Patent
`Owners, by and before Rhonda D. Tuck, RPR, CRR, Notary
`
`Public in and for the Commonwealth of Virginia at
`large, pursuant to 37 CFR § 42.53 and the Board's
`authorization, and by Notice to Take Depositions,
`commencing at 9:14 a.m., May 27, 2021, at 1201 West
`Main Street, Charlottesville, Virginia.
`
`APPEARANCES OF COUNSEL:
`
`
`CALFEE, HALTER & GRISWOLD LLP
` The Calfee Building
`1405 East Sixth Street
`Cleveland, Ohio 44114-1607
`(216) 622-8200
` kdeighan@calfee.com
`BY: KYLE T. DEIGHAN, ESQUIRE
` Counsel on behalf of the Petitioner
`
`
`
`
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`Patent Owner Ex. 2021-0001
`
`

`

`(9:14 a.m., May 27, 2021)
`
`
` 6
`
`THE VIDEOGRAPHER: All right. This is the
`videotaped deposition of Dr. Peter Netland,
`being taken on behalf of New World Medical. My
`name is Gordon Croll. I'm here representing
`Veritext Court Reporting. The court reporter
`today is Rhonda Tuck, also here representing
`Veritext.
`Would counsel please identify themselves
`now for the record.
`MR. SUNG: Lawrence Sung, of Wiley Rein,
`representing Patent Owners MicroSurgical
`Technology and the Regents of the University of
`California.
`MS. SUMMERS: Teresa Summers, also with
`
`Wiley Rein and representing the patent owners,
`New World Medical -- excuse me, MicroSurgical
`Technologies and the Regents of the University
`of California.
`MR. DEIGHAN: Kyle Deighan, from Calfee,
`
`Halter & Griswold, representing the petitioner,
`
` 8
`recollection, please allow me to address a few
`housekeeping matters before we get started. This
`deposition is designed to allow MicroSurgical
`Technology, or MST, and the Regents of the University
`of California, which I'll refer to as UC -- they are
`the respective patent owners in these Inter Partes
`Reviews, which I'll refer to today as the IPRs, and it
`will allow us to engage in a cross-examination of you
`as the witness based on the declaration you provided
`in support of the petitions that challenge the
`validity of certain patents and patent claims by MST
`and UC.
`
`For each question, your answer must be
`audible to allow the court reporter to transcribe your
`response. Allow me to complete my question, and I
`will do the same with your answer so that we do not
`talk over one another. We may disagree about some
`things, but we want to establish an accurate written
`record of today's discussion.
`If you are unable to hear or answer my
`question, please let me know so that I may repeat or
`clarify. If you provide an answer, we will presume
`
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`I N D E X
`
` 5
`
`
`WITNESS: PETER NETLAND, M.D., Ph.D.
`
` Examination by Mr. Sung............................7
`
`
`
`E X H I B I T S
`Netland Exhibit Number 1...........................239
` "Comparison of two glaucoma surgical techniques,
` Kahook Dual Blade goniotomy versus Trabectome
` ab-interno trabeculotomy, in combination with
` cataract surgery"
`
`
`* * * * *
`
` 7
`
`New World Medical.
`MR. KLANN: David Klann, General Counsel
`for New World Medical, petitioner.
`THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Thank you. Today's date
`
`is May 27th. The year is 2021. The time is
`approximately 9:14 a.m.
`Would the reporter please swear in the
`witness.
`(Oath administered by the court reporter.)
`
`
`
`PETER NETLAND, M.D., Ph.D.,
`having been duly sworn, testified as follows:
`E X A M I N A T I O N
`BY MR. SUNG:
`Q. Dr. Netland, please state your full name
`and address for the record.
`A. Peter Netland, Charlottesville, Virginia.
`Q. And have you been deposed previously?
`A. Yes, in one -- as an expert, just once.
`Q. And about how long ago was that?
`A. About 15 years ago.
`Q. Okay. So just to refresh your
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`Patent Owner Ex. 2021-0002
`
`

`

` 10
`other medical issues or concerns that might impact
`that?
`
`A. No.
`Q. So during our next two days together -- and
`I don't want to make it sound too bad, but we'll
`provide you with some documents to facilitate our
`discussion. So I'm going to start handing over some
`and -- to sort of try to be as efficient as possible
`rather than doing it piecemeal, we'll just slide a
`pile over to him for that purpose.
`So let me go ahead and start here. Let me
`go ahead. I'm going to be handing you a document
`that's previously marked as Exhibit 1003 in
`IPR2021-00066.
`Dr. Netland, I represent to you that this
`is a copy of the declaration electronically signed by
`you on October 18th, 2020. Are you familiar with this
`document?
`A. Yes, I am.
`Q. And again, apologies, but we're going to be
`going through a whole bunch of these. So you can set
`that to the side. Here's the next one.
`
` 12
`
`number here, as well?
`MR. SUNG: The numbers are right here.
`THE WITNESS: Yes.
`MR. DEIGHAN: Okay.
`BY MR. SUNG:
`Q.
`I'm sorry. Dr. Netland. There's an
`outstanding question whether you're familiar with that
`last document.
`A. Yes, I am.
`Q. Okay. Yes. You'll see that a lot of this
`is very methodical.
`I'm handing you another document, and this
`document was previously marked as Exhibit 1003 in
`IPR2021-01711, and I represent to you that this is a
`copy of the declaration electronically signed by you
`on October 1, 2020. Are you familiar with this
`document?
`A. Yes, I am.
`MR. SUNG: I apologize. Can we go off the
`record for a minute? We need to get the other
`declaration. It's right next door.
`MR. DEIGHAN: Sure.
`
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` 9
`
`that you understood the question.
`We'll plan to proceed to about 60 to 90
`minutes between breaks, but if at any time you wish to
`pause, feel free to inform us. We only ask that you
`first complete your response to any outstanding
`question before we break.
`Now, because your deposition is being
`conducted in the IPR context, you're cautioned not to
`discuss your testimony with your counsel during any
`breaks, including between the time we end for today
`and then we start tomorrow and Friday. If your
`counsel objects to my question, you are still under an
`obligation to answer to the best of your ability,
`unless your counsel specifically instructs you not to
`answer.
`
`Do you have any questions before we begin ?
`A. No.
`Q. Are you aware of anything that would keep
`you from giving full, complete, and truthful answers
`to my questions here today?
`A. No.
`Q. Are you taking any medications or have any
`
` 11
`Dr. Netland, you've been handed a document
`previously marked as Exhibit 1003 and IPR2021-00065,
`and I represent to you that this is a copy of the
`declaration electronically signed by you on
`October 16th, 2020.
`Are you familiar with this document?
`A. Yes.
`MR. DEIGHAN: Almost looks like it's upside
`down.
`BY MR. SUNG:
`Q. Dr. Netland, I've handed you a document
`previously marked as Exhibit 1003 and IPR2021-00017,
`and I represent to you that this is a copy of the
`declaration electronically signed by you on
`October 10th, 2020.
`Are you familiar with this document?
`MR. DEIGHAN: I think you gave me the '155.
`MR. SUNG: You can hold that one.
`MR. DEIGHAN: I'll keep that. So this is
`the one?
`MR. SUNG: Yeah.
`THE WITNESS: Question. I can annotate a
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`Patent Owner Ex. 2021-0003
`
`

`

` 14
`applicable across all five IPRs. Is that acceptable
`to you?
`A. Yes.
`Q. Do you recall where you were at the time
`you electronically signed these declarations?
`A. Yes. In Charlottesville.
`Q. Now, in the last document that I provided
`to you, which is the declaration for the IPR ending in
`1573, if you can turn to Paragraph 281, which is near
`the middle. It should be on Bates-stamped
`Page Number 177 of the exhibit.
`At the lower right-hand corner of all those
`pages, there should be a number, and it's internally
`numbered 176.
`A.
`I'm sorry. Did you say Paragraph 281
`or -2?
`Q. 281, please. Do you have that in front of
`
`you?
`
`A. Yes.
`Q. Do you understand this paragraph to be your
`oath or affirmation that all statements in your
`declaration are true?
`
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` 13
`THE VIDEOGRAPHER: All right. The time is
`
`approximately 9:22 p.m. (sic), and we are off
`the record.
`(Break in proceedings.)
`THE VIDEOGRAPHER: All right. The time is
`
`approximately 9:23, and we are back on the
`record.
`BY MR. SUNG:
`Q.
`I apologize for that, Dr. Netland. I'm
`handing you another document. You've been handed a
`document previously marked as Exhibit 1003 and
`IPR2020-01573, and I represent to you that this is a
`copy of the declaration electronically signed by you
`on September 4, 2020. Are you familiar with this
`document?
`A. Yes, I am.
`Q. Now, for purposes of our discussion today,
`any question I ask without reference to a particular
`IPR or version of your declaration should be taken as
`applicable across all five IPRs, and similarly, any
`answer you provide without reference to a particular
`IPR or version of your declaration will be taken as
`
` 15
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`vitae."
`
`Do you recall making that statement?
`A. Would you repeat that question again?
`(The court reporter read the record as
`requested.)
`BY MR. SUNG:
`Q. And to make it a little bit more efficient,
`let me refer you to Paragraph 15 in that document.
`A. Yes. Okay.
`Q. And I'll represent to you that the
`identical statement exists as Paragraph 15 in each one
`of your declarations. Do you see that paragraph in
`front of you?
`A.
`I'm sorry. I'm a bit lost now.
`Paragraph 15 in --
`Q.
`In each one of your declarations is
`identical, and I'm just representing that that's the
`same paragraph.
`A. Yes. Yes. Yes.
`Q. And you've mentioned that you have not been
`deposed in the past four years; is that correct?
`A. To my recollection, it's correct.
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`A. Yes.
`Q. And that you are subject to the penalty for
`perjury for false statements made in your declaration?
`A. Yes.
`Q. And so would your answers to these
`questions about the oath or affirmation in the
`declaration you submitted for the '729 Patent, which
`is the one you have in front of you, does that apply
`equally across the other four declarations you 've
`signed?
`A. Yes.
`Q. And similarly, do you understand that you
`are under oath sitting here today?
`A. Yes.
`Q. And that you are subject to the penalty for
`perjury for false statements made by you during this
`deposition?
`A. Yes.
`Q. And each of your five declarations, you've
`stated that, "A complete list of cases in which I've
`testified at trial, hearing or by deposition within
`the preceding four years is provided in my curriculum
`
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`Patent Owner Ex. 2021-0004
`
`

`

` 18
`Where -- which one are you trying to get attention to?
`Q.
`In any of the declarations if you turn to
`Paragraph 15 --
`A. Okay.
`Q.
`-- you can see that statement.
`A.
`I'll have to look specifically at that.
`Q. Sure.
`A. Yes, and I wrote that, and I believe that
`that is correct.
`Q. That there is a list in your CV?
`A. No. There were no -- there is no preceding
`deposition that I'm aware of.
`Q. Do you recall any portions of your
`declarations that you did not write personally?
`A. No.
`Q. Do you have any financial interest in New
`World Medical?
`A. No. I do at the moment in the sense I'm an
`expert witness, but otherwise no financial interest at
`this time.
`Q. Do you have any financial interest in any
`nonacademic business entity involving the technology
`
` 20
`And so my contact with the company has been
`in different ways related to that activity, providing
`feedback about the use of the devices, so from an
`expert viewpoint, providing academic investigations
`into the use of the device, oftentimes after approval,
`which does not carry a proprietary interest, and to
`try to see how the devices work in our patients and to
`try to, you know, make sure that they're providing
`safe and effective treatment, and that feedback is
`valuable to the company in the sense that they do
`appreciate hearing that, and it's necessary for the
`process of implementation of technology.
`Q. So when you use New World Medical products
`as you described, is that your personal choice or a
`choice made by somebody else?
`A.
`It's usually a personal choice. There are
`occasionally institutional issues or surgery center
`issues with -- related to more business-related side
`of things, availability, pricing and so forth, but
`those are relatively small factors. I think the most
`important part of it is choice by the physician.
`Q. And do you, in your past experience using
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` 17
`Q. And you have not been deposed in the
`context of an IPR; is that correct?
`A.
`I believe that's correct.
`Q. And do you recall where in your CV this
`list described in Paragraph 15 is?
`A. No. I don't have any recollection. I may
`not have included the deposition I mentioned earlier
`in my CV because it's an academic CV.
`Q. Okay.
`A. That wouldn't be considered an academic
`accomplishment, necessarily.
`Q. Did you personally write Paragraph 15,
`then?
`A. Well, I personally wrote all of this, but I
`may have been provided with some summary verbiage to
`cover that point.
`Q. Right. Because why would you state that
`there would be a list provided when there was none?
`A. And again, let me make sure I'm on the
`right correct paragraph here. So this is the
`statement at the end that you had specifically drawn
`my attention to. You've mentioned Paragraph 15.
`
` 19
`
`relevant to this IPR?
`A. No, I do not have any financial interest at
`this time.
`Q. And have you interacted with anyone at New
`World before the events related to this IPR?
`A. Before the events related to this IPR?
`
`Yes.
`
`Q. And who are those individuals that you
`interacted with at New World Medical?
`A. Many, many individuals in the -- at New
`World Medical. It's a long list . So I can go through
`that if you'd like, but if you have any specific
`people you're interested in knowing if I had contact
`with, I can provide that, but I've been in touch over
`the years, since probably the early 1990s, with many
`people at New World Medical.
`Q. Okay. Can you generally describe your
`relationship with New World Medical historically?
`A. Yes. Historically, I would say that they
`provide devices that we use for medical treatment, and
`I've used those devices since the early 1990s and have
`developed expertise in the use of those devices.
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`Patent Owner Ex. 2021-0005
`
`

`

` 22
`Q. And you had answered earlier that you don't
`presently have any financial interest in the
`nonacademic business entity involving the technology
`relevant to this IPR, but have you had any such
`interest in the past?
`A. Yes.
`Q. And can you describe that?
`A. Yes. So the -- I've worked with a variety
`of companies through the years, for the same reason.
`Innovation and technology is very important to advance
`medicine, and I do use the technology to provide
`surgical care to the patients, and medical care, as
`well. So through the years I've had to -- I've worked
`with many different companies to try to find ways to
`use the technology in our patients.
`Q. And so in your answer to my question about
`financial interests, what's then the nature of that
`financial interest? Were you compensated for that ?
`A. Yeah. So in the past there have been
`various different types of support. So one type of
`support is research support. So if there's a device
`or a medication that has been -- has not been approved
`
` 24
`process through that contracting process, and so there
`are some payments. I would say I don't receive direct
`payments for those activities either.
`There have been occasional consulting
`agreements, not frequent, but there are times when I
`do consult, and those are more direct payments to me,
`and that would be a more direct financial interest, I
`suppose. And those kinds of activities may relate to
`questions such as, for example, can we approve this
`technology, how do we develop this further, where are
`we going with this, et cetera. So I may have some
`direct consulting agreements over the years.
`Honestly, I can't recall all of them. I
`would say they've been much less frequent than the
`research. I think it's clear from my CV that,
`generally speaking, the financial interests that I've
`had to declare over the years have been related to
`research activity, which is usually institutionally
`contracted and managed.
`Q. Do you have a present consulting agreement
`with New World Medical?
`A.
`I do. It's described in this document, all
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`New World Medical products, are you required to obtain
`approval within your employment to do that, to make
`that choice?
`A. Yes, in the sense that we have to -- I
`don't personally purchase the devices. It is
`purchased -- they're purchased throughout patient
`surgical centers or hospital operating rooms and so
`forth, and so there is a process that they use to
`purchase the instruments , and so it's not entirely
`controlled by the physician. There is a personal
`choice that that would be helpful to our patients, but
`beyond that, there are some other additional
`considerations that institutions and surgical centers
`do use to make those choices.
`Q. And other than making the purchase of the
`New World Medical products for these activities that
`you've described, have you gotten compensated for the
`use of New World Medical's products?
`A. The answer to that is no. I don't own the
`hospital surgery facilities, and they make a purchase
`agreement for the device, and so I personally don't
`profit or benefit from that in any way directly.
`
` 23
`by the FDA, there's required clinical trials that
`would require support. Since the technology or
`medication is not approved, then, you know, there's no
`reimbursement for that activity. And so that kind of
`activity does require research support.
`That support usually goes to the
`institution, and it's negotiated and contracted
`through the university. The university receives the
`payments, and then they allocate it from there.
`There's usually very little support for me personally,
`if any, and so that's the process for those devices.
`If something has been approved, there is
`payment for the activity through Medicare, Medicaid,
`and private insurers, and I may benefit from that
`payment, I suppose you could argue, in some way. But
`there may be additional research support required to
`perform a clinical trial after approval, post-approval
`clinical trial.
`And that activity is, again, negotiated by
`the institution, institutional payments for various
`expenses that they may have, IRB approval and so forth
`like that, various kinds of documents they have to
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` 26
`Q. And do you recall if the scope of that
`consulting agreement included subject matter beyond
`these IPRs?
`A.
`I don't recall the entire document,
`actually, but I believe that it was limited to those
`areas for that agreement.
`MR. SUNG: Counsel, we'll follow up in
`writing, but we're going to request a copy of
`that agreement, consulting agreement.
`BY MR. SUNG:
`Q. Dr. Netland, have you written articles
`about New World Medical's products?
`A. Yes, I have.
`Q. Do you recall which products you've written
`articles about?
`A. So certainly I've written a great deal
`about the Ahmed Glaucoma Valve and its variations,
`which is a glaucoma drainage implant which has been in
`the United States since in the early 1990s. And
`that's been something I've provided a lot of
`literature about over the years since the introduction
`of that device here in the U.S., 20-year period or so.
`
` 28
`But in terms of articles, I don't recall
`any right offhand, but there have been other New World
`Medical products that are related to this family of
`products. Tube extenders. Let's see. Which other
`ones have we done? Prostmetic clips, devices like
`that. They are produced by New World Medical, and
`I've just contributed academic literature about that.
`Now, there are a lot of talks. I'm
`referring only to articles. There are a lot of talks
`which may have brought in a number of New World
`Medical products as well as many others that are
`related to glaucoma surgery in general, primary and
`secondary surgery for glaucoma and also minimally
`invasive glaucoma surgery and other topics that are
`related, and I'm sure that I -- that those would have
`included information about the New World Medical
`products, as well as many others.
`Q. And just to close the loop on the financial
`interests, vis-a-vis New World Medical, you don't have
`any ownership interest in New World Medical?
`A. No.
`Q. And you don't own any stock in New World
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`the documents. But I do have a consulting agreement
`now to -- for this process.
`Q. Do you recall when that consulting
`agreement started?
`A.
`I don't remember the exact date, actually.
`I may not have specified that here, but it was
`sometime before -- around the time that these
`proceedings began, so it was a little while ago. And
`so I've had a consulting agreement for this process,
`as an expert witness.
`Q. Do you recall hearing from New World
`Medical about these IPRs before signing your
`consultant agreement with them?
`A.
`I heard it mentioned that there was -- that
`there may be proceedings, and so there would be a
`possibility that we would be trying to get to that
`kind of agreement, of a consulting agreement for that
`reason, but I think it was described in general terms
`at that time and not any specifics.
`Q.
`Is that consulting -- I apologize. Is that
`agreement directly with New World Medical?
`A. Yes, it is.
`
` 27
`And I may have discussed the KDB blade in
`some literature, but I don't recall specific articles
`about that. I've certainly used the device. I don't
`recall a specific article. I have had an abstract,
`which did include data about the KDB blade. So I
`would say, yes, there is something listed there about
`the KDB because I've presented published abstracts
`about that material. So yes.
`Q. Sitting here now, do you recall any other
`articles or publications other than this abstract
`you're referring to that you authored for or with
`regard to KDB?
`A. Yeah. Just to clarify -- I understand your
`question. I just wanted to clarify that it was not
`authored -- you know, it wasn't authored for them.
`These are academic articles using the devices and
`technology for care of people, not for the company.
`Yes. There were some other devices. KDB,
`I don't recall other published information about that
`particular device. There may have been some talks and
`so forth that included that among other devices that
`are listed in the CV.
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` 30
`A. Got it. I was looking for the page numbers
`that I had put on the document.
`Q. Right.
`A. So I have it.
`Q. Does that refresh your recollection?
`A. Yes, it does. So that meeting has
`historically been an annual meeting , actually, at the
`American Academy of Ophthalmology. It was not held
`this year. And I coordinate and oftentimes am at that
`meeting, and I'm a speaker. There's historically been
`no payment for that. It's not officially part of the
`American Academy of Ophthalmology meeting, but it is
`concurrent with it, and it's a popular meeting that
`many ophthalmologists go to.
`And the focus of that is to try to provide
`updated information about some -- usually topics
`related to in some way glaucoma drainage implants.
`It's intended to be a relatively noncommercial
`meeting, in the sense that we bring up other competing
`products and talk about them in a positive way and
`provide the information that ophthalmologists would
`like about -- so oftentimes there have been other
`
` 32
`it's historically not had direct support for speakers
`and so forth like that so much, but they do have to
`get a room. They have to pay for that. There are
`refreshments there. It's a breakfast meeting.
`There's audiovisual expenses, and there are other
`expenses, as well. Certainly I don't -- I've never
`made that. New World Medical has provided that
`sponsorship.
`Q. And to your knowledge for these meetings
`that we're talking about, is New World Medical the
`only sponsor of that meeting?
`A. Yes. And that meeting actually dates back
`historically to, again, the early 1990s when they were
`introducing the technology, and I think clinicians,
`you know, wanted to know more about its clinical
`efficacy and safety, and so the meeting was started
`with the intent of educating ophthalmologists about
`the technology, and then it spread to more general
`topics through the years.
`Q. And when you say that at that meeting you
`had discussed competing products, would that have
`included MicroSurgical's products?
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`
`Medical?
`A. No, and I never have.
`Q. Okay. So in your CV, you do refer to an
`October 13th, 2019 meeting you describe as New World
`Medical meeting, and feel free to look on your CV.
`A. Yes, uh-huh.
`Q. Do you recall that meeting?
`A. Yes. I think -- let me just look at the
`specific meeting because there have been several that
`have been --
`Q. Yes. They go back --
`A.
`-- related to New World Medical. Right.
`They may have mentioned that.
`Q. So I think if you look at Page 219, again,
`bottom right corner, it's serialized, but Page 219 of
`that exhibit, you might find a listing?
`A. On -- there are some subpages listed on the
`CV. Which number --
`Q. You should see a mark that says
`Exhibit 1003, Page, and then it's 219 of 269.
`A. Oh, here it is. I've got it.
`Q. Square in the middle. Do you see that?
`
` 31
`technologies that have been even directly competing,
`not presented in a negative way but to provide a more
`comprehensive set of information for the
`ophthalmologists at that meeting.
`So it's been something I've done actually
`annually for quite a few years. I would say usually
`it's without compensation. I will say that in some
`years I've had -- I usually have my expenses covered
`from our institution, but some years I've had some
`support for room, you know, a hotel room or something
`like that, but I don't receive an honorarium for that.
`So it's a meeting that's intended to
`provide general information about surgical management
`of glaucoma topics, as part of the annual meeting of
`the American Academy of Ophthalmology. So it's
`called -- it's what they call a satellite meeting, so
`not part of the program but part of the general
`options that attendees can go to, and it's quite
`popular.
`Q. To your knowledge, is that meeting
`sponsored by New World Medical?
`A. Yes, it is, but the sponsorship, again,
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` 34
`saying that these meetings originated much earlier
`than that?
`A. Yes, in the 1990s, I think. And I would
`like to go back to that question and say I think we
`were just talking about, on Page 219, I think we were
`talking about one that was more recent than that. So
`I think the more recent one would have been
`probably -- most recent one probably would have been
`the 2019 course which is listed there.
`Q. Yeah.
`A. Okay.
`Q. You described in each of these items that
`you are the program coordinator and speaker. Do you
`recall what that role entailed?
`A. Yes. So I have given occasional talks at
`the meeting. If we have research that's relevant to
`that field, drainage implants usually. In recent
`years there's been more interest in minimally invasive
`glaucoma surgeries as an alternative to primary
`surgery for glaucoma, as well.
`(Court Reporter clarification.)
`THE WITNESS: Minimally invasive glaucoma
`
` 36
`from different parts of the country and making it a
`more engaging meeting for attendees, so we try not to
`be too repetitive.
`Q. And do you recall, for instance, with the
`2019 meeting, does New World Medical have a sales
`representative or a booth that's at the meeting?
`A. Yes, they do attend routinely. In fact,
`they'll oftentimes make comments at the very end, just
`to thank people for coming and express their
`appreciation for that. It's usually pretty well
`attended, and so they do actually speak briefly,
`usually at the very end of the meeting to do that, but
`they really have no other role. They do sit there and
`try to provide support for individuals that may want
`it. There's no booths or anything like that. So they
`try to maintain a relatively noncommercial presence,
`but they are in the room, so to speak.
`Q. Do you recall any research you conducted or
`manuscripts you've prepared that were funded at least
`in part by New World Medical?
`A. Yes.