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`UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
` WEBER, INC., ) Case IPR2020-01556
`Petitioner, ) Patent 10,625,436
`v. )
` PROVISUR TECHNOLOGIES, )
` INC., )
`Patent Owner. )
` ------------------------x
`
`DEPOSITION OF
`WILLIAM S. HOWARD, PhD, PE
`(Located in Charleston, SC)
`(Appearing via Zoom)
`
`Tuesday, September 14, 2021
`
`9:17 AM ET
`
` Pages: 1 - 162
` Reported by: Sandra K. Bjerke, RDR, CRR, CBC
`(Appearing via Zoom)
`
`212-267-6868
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`www.veritext.com
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`Weber EX1062
`Weber v. Provisur
`IPR2020-01557
`
`
`UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
` WEBER, INC., ) Case IPR2020-01556
`Petitioner, ) Patent 10,625,436
`v. )
` PROVISUR TECHNOLOGIES, )
` INC., )
`Patent Owner. )
` ------------------------x
`
`DEPOSITION OF
`WILLIAM S. HOWARD, PhD, PE
`(Located in Charleston, SC)
`(Appearing via Zoom)
`
`Tuesday, September 14, 2021
`
`9:17 AM ET
`
` Pages: 1 - 162
` Reported by: Sandra K. Bjerke, RDR, CRR, CBC
`(Appearing via Zoom)
`
`212-267-6868
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`www.veritext.com
`
`516-608-2400
`
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`Weber EX1062
`Weber v. Provisur
`IPR2020-01557
`
`
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`
` A P P E A R A N C E S
` ON BEHALF OF PETITIONER:
` STERNE KESSLER GOLDSTEIN & FOX, PLLC
` BY: R. WILSON "TREY" POWERS III, PhD
` TREVOR M. O'NEILL
` JAMES T. BUCHANAN
` (All Appearing via Zoom)
` 1100 New York Avenue NW, Suite 600
` Washington, DC 20005
` (202) 371-2600
` tpowers@sternekessler.com
` toneill@sternekessler.com
` jbuchanan@sternekessler.com
` ON BEHALF OF PATENT OWNER:
` WILLKIE FARR & GALLAGHER LLP
` BY: HENRY THOMAS
` MICHAEL G. BABBITT
` MITCHELL FELDHAKE
` (All Appearing via Zoom)
` 300 North LaSalle
` Chicago, IL 60654-3406
` (312) 728-9000
` hthomas@willkie.com
` mbabbitt@willkie.com
` mfeldhake@willkie.com
`
` (INDEX AT REAR OF TRANSCRIPT)
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` THE REPORTER: The attorneys
` participating in this deposition acknowledge that I
` am not physically present in the deposition room
` and that I will be reporting this deposition
` remotely.
` They further acknowledge that in lieu
` of an oath administered in person, I will
` administer the oath remotely.
` If any party has an objection to this
` manner of reporting, please state it now.
` WILLIAM S. HOWARD, PhD, PE
` being first duly sworn, testified as follows:
` EXAMINATION
` BY MR. POWERS:
` Q. Good morning. Will you please state
` your full name for the record.
` A. William Stamps Howard.
` Q. And I'm Ralph Powers III on behalf of
` Weber from Sterne Kessler Goldstein & Fox.
` MR. POWERS: Henry, do you want to go?
` MR. THOMAS: Yeah. Good morning. I'm
` Henry Thomas on behalf of patent owner Provisur
` from Willkie Farr & Gallagher.
` BY MR. POWERS:
` Q. Dr. Howard, you've worked on food
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` processing machines before; correct?
` A. Yes, I have.
` Q. Did you work for Case Farms?
` A. I didn't work for Case Farms. I did
` work with OSHA and Case Farms together.
` Q. So you worked on machines at Case
` Farms; is that true?
` A. Case Farms had equipment that was used
` in chicken processing, and OSHA had cited them for
` safety violations. Case Farms stated that they
` weren't able to meet the requirements for various
` reasons. I got pulled in to, A, suggest or say
` different safety methods that would meet OSHA
` requirements for Case Farms.
` Q. Were you working on behalf of Case
` Farms?
` A. I was employed by OSHA.
` Q. What kind of machines did you inspect
` or work on with regard to the Case Farms project?
` A. More or less all of -- well, a number
` of machines throughout the facility. There were a
` number of places where there was work that needed
` to be done to meet OSHA standards in numerous
` machines in the facility.
` Q. Were any of those machines slicing
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` machines?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Were the standards that you were
` applying on behalf of OSHA safety standards?
` A. In terms of OSHA there were OSHA
` standards.
` Q. What are OSHA standards?
` A. Well, they're generally related to
` safety. They're electrical, mechanical. There's
` standards related to guarding, there's standards
` related to electrical requirements and things like
` that.
` Q. Did you look at any operator's manuals
` for the Case Farms machines?
` MR. THOMAS: Objection; scope.
` THE WITNESS: Not to my recollection,
` no.
` BY MR. POWERS:
` Q. If you'd asked to look at an operator's
` manual for any of those machines would you have
` been able to access the manual?
` MR. THOMAS: Objection; foundation.
` THE WITNESS: I don't know the answer.
` I would imagine that if I had asked it would have
` gone through the attorney for OSHA who would have
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` talked to the attorney for their -- Case Farms and
` then decisions would have been made. So I don't
` actually know the answer.
` BY MR. POWERS:
` Q. Okay. What type of machines -- did you
` work on a machine for a company called Filet of
` Chicken?
` A. I did.
` Q. What kind of machine was that?
` A. That was a chicken processing facility
` in Georgia.
` Q. What kind of machine did you work on?
` A. There were a couple of machines who
` were related to processing of the chicken, and I do
` think there was some slicing involved as well.
` Q. So some of those machines were slicing
` machines?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Did the machines that you worked on for
` Filet of Chicken have operator's manuals?
` MR. THOMAS: Objection; foundation.
` THE WITNESS: I don't know.
` BY MR. POWERS:
` Q. Did you look at an operator's manual
` for the Filet of Chicken machine that you worked
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` on?
` A. Not that I recall, no.
` Q. If you'd asked to look at an operator's
` manual for the Filet of Chicken machine that you
` worked on would you have been able to access the
` manual?
` MR. THOMAS: Objection; foundation.
` THE WITNESS: I don't know.
` BY MR. POWERS:
` Q. Are the operators of the Filet of
` Chicken machines expected to be familiar with the
` operator's manuals for those machines?
` MR. THOMAS: Objection; foundation,
` form.
` THE WITNESS: I don't actually know the
` training that was provided to the operators, so I
` don't know.
` BY MR. POWERS:
` Q. Under OSHA guidelines should an
` operator be familiar with an operator's manual
` before operating a machine?
` A. I am unaware of an OSHA regulation that
` would state that. I'm unaware of an OSHA
` regulation to that effect.
` Q. What about just good practice from a
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` safety standpoint? Should an operator be familiar
` with an operator's manual before operating a
` machine?
` MR. THOMAS: Objection; form.
` THE WITNESS: Yeah, I think that when
` operating machines it would be not unusual for
` operators to have seen the manual for that machine.
` BY MR. POWERS:
` Q. What type of machine were you working
` on for Filet of Chicken?
` A. There were several machines related to
` the process. It was a number of years ago, but
` there were a couple of machines.
` Q. Can you be a little bit more specific?
` What type of machines?
` A. Well, they processed chicken there for
` sandwiches, if I remember right. And I think the
` sandwiches were -- well, they were sandwiches and
` they had had some damage to the machines from some
` kind of event and was working with them to
` recommend how to properly replace and restore their
` machines to get -- what the process would be to
` reinstall and replace the line.
` Q. And what type of machines were you
` working on as part of that?
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` A. Chicken. I mean, I -- there were a
` couple of machines related to the chickens. They
` were towards the end of the processing facility --
` processing portion, but the specific machines I
` don't recall as I'm sitting here.
` Q. Do you recall that one of those
` machines was a slicing machine?
` A. Well, what they did there is they took
` chicken and they processed it, including cutting it
` at times, but specifically the machines, I don't
` remember that as I'm sitting here.
` Q. Did they cut the chicken by hand at the
` facility?
` A. No, no.
` Q. They used machines to cut the chicken?
` A. They used machines to cut the chicken.
` Q. Do you remember what company provided
` them at Filet of Chicken a slicing machine?
` A. I do not.
` Q. And as part of your work for Filet of
` Chicken did you work specifically on the slicing
` machine?
` MR. THOMAS: Objection; form.
` THE WITNESS: I'm not certain.
` BY MR. POWERS:
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` Q. You couldn't say, sitting here today,
` one way or the other if you worked on the slicing
` machine or a slicing machine at Filet of Chicken?
` MR. THOMAS: Objection; form.
` THE WITNESS: There were slicing
` machines at Filet of Chicken, and I was working
` with them to repair some of their lines. Whether
` the slicing machine was a machine that we replaced
` or not or whether that was a machine we interfaced
` to is not one I remember.
` As I'm sitting here, I don't recall. I
` don't think we replaced the slicing machine. I
` think it was machines that were either prior to or
` right after the slicing machine that ended up
` needing to be replaced as part of my
` recommendations.
` BY MR. POWERS:
` Q. As part of your research and analysis
` into your recommendations, your ultimate
` recommendations at Filet of Chicken, did you review
` any machine documentation?
` MR. THOMAS: Objection; scope.
` THE WITNESS: Not that I recall.
` BY MR. POWERS:
` Q. You don't recall looking at any
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` paperwork involving the machines that you made the
` analysis on?
` MR. THOMAS: Objection; form.
` THE WITNESS: As I'm sitting here, I
` don't remember precisely what I looked at or did
` not look at.
` BY MR. POWERS:
` Q. So you may have looked at schematics.
` MR. THOMAS: Objection; form.
` THE WITNESS: Yes, I may have looked at
` schematics. As I'm sitting here, I don't recall
` specifically what I looked at.
` BY MR. POWERS:
` Q. You may have looked at machine manuals?
` MR. THOMAS: Objection; form.
` THE WITNESS: As I'm sitting here right
` now, I don't know what I looked at.
` BY MR. POWERS:
` Q. When was this research?
` A. More than 10 years ago. I would say
` roughly 2007 to 2010-ish. Something like that.
` Q. So sometime between 2007-2010 you may
` have seen schematics for a Filet of Chicken
` machine; is that right?
` MR. THOMAS: Objection; form.
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` THE WITNESS: I definitely worked with
` them on the machine. I inspected the machinery, I
` made recommendations to them. As I'm sitting here,
` I don't recall what documentation I specifically
` looked at.
` BY MR. POWERS:
` Q. And sometime between 2007 to 2010 you
` may have seen a manual for a Filet of Chicken
` slicing machine; is that right?
` MR. THOMAS: Objection; form.
` THE WITNESS: I don't have a
` recollection one way or another. I may have, I may
` not have.
` BY MR. POWERS:
` Q. You inspected the machines; correct?
` A. I did inspect the machines.
` Q. And if you had asked for documentation
` related to those machines do you believe Filet of
` Chicken would have given it to you?
` MR. THOMAS: Objection; foundation,
` form.
` THE WITNESS: I don't know if they had
` it, I don't know if they would have given it to me.
` I don't actually know the answer.
` BY MR. POWERS:
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` Q. I'm not -- I'm just asking for your
` belief. If you'd asked for the manuals for those
` slicing machines for the chicken do you believe
` that Filet of Chicken would have given it to you?
` MR. THOMAS: Objection; form,
` foundation, scope, relevance.
` THE WITNESS: In the end I'm not sure.
` I don't know that they had it, I don't know that
` they would have provided it. I'm -- it's a
` theoretical that I'm not sure about.
` BY MR. POWERS:
` Q. Did Filet of Chicken ever withhold
` documentation that you asked for related to the
` slicing machine that you worked on for them?
` A. Not that I recall.
` Q. You also worked for Kliklok; right?
` A. I did.
` Q. And did you work on machines for
` Kliklok?
` A. Yes, yes.
` Q. Did you work on food slicing machines
` at Kliklok?
` A. So we worked on the machines that would
` have been immediately after the food slicing
` machines. So it would be sliced and then packaged.
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` So we worked on the machines that interfaced to the
` food slicing machines.
` Q. And do you remember who provided those
` machines to Kliklok?
` MR. THOMAS: Objection; form.
` THE WITNESS: We were a machine
` manufacturer, not a manufacturer ourselves. So we
` would provide machinery. I would go out in the
` field. We would interface our machines to food
` slicing machines and set up a production line for a
` customer.
` BY MR. POWERS:
` Q. Are you talking about Kliklok when you
` say we?
` A. I am. Kliklok.
` Q. And did Kliklok have operator's manuals
` that it provided to its customers for its machines?
` MR. THOMAS: Objection; foundation.
` THE WITNESS: Kliklok does have
` operating manuals that it provides to its
` customers.
` BY MR. POWERS:
` Q. Does it provide operator's manuals to
` its customers with every sale?
` MR. THOMAS: Objection; foundation.
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` THE WITNESS: To my knowledge, yes,
` with every sale we gave an operating manual.
` BY MR. POWERS:
` Q. Are those operator's manuals marked
` confidential?
` MR. THOMAS: Objection; foundation.
` THE WITNESS: I'm not sure. It's not
` something I remember one way or another.
` BY MR. POWERS:
` Q. Did you ever review the Kliklok machine
` operator's manuals?
` A. I helped write them. Yes.
` Q. Do you recall whether or not they were
` marked confidential?
` A. I do not.
` Q. But sitting here today, it's your
` belief that every sale of a Kliklok machine
` included an operator's manual with the sale of the
` machine; is that right?
` A. Yeah, I believe that we included an
` operator's manual with every machine that we sold.
` Q. If a customer called Kliklok and asked
` for a replacement manual, would Kliklok have
` provided a replacement operator's manual to the
` customer?
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` MR. THOMAS: Objection; foundation,
` scope.
` THE WITNESS: My belief is yes, we did
` provide manuals to customers if they requested a
` replacement.
` BY MR. POWERS:
` Q. To your knowledge, did Kliklok ever
` provide prospective customers with operator's
` manuals?
` MR. THOMAS: Objection; foundation,
` scope.
` THE WITNESS: Not to my knowledge.
` BY MR. POWERS:
` Q. You also worked for Sara Lee; correct?
` A. I worked at Sara Lee. And then did I
` work for them directly? I may have worked for
` them. Yeah, I worked for them briefly after I left
` Kliklok when I was also employed by Kliklok.
` Q. So let me just unpack that. So you
` worked at Kliklok for Sara Lee; correct?
` A. When I left Kliklok formally, Kliklok
` retained me as a consulting engineer. And so at
` that point I was doing some work both for Kliklok
` but also for other customers and, in some cases,
` for both.
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` Q. I see. And at some point you worked
` just for Sara Lee; is that right?
` A. Well, I worked with Sara Lee. I think
` they actually -- I think I actually billed Sara Lee
` for some work that I did. I was also doing some
` work for Kliklok and billed them for some work.
` Q. And what was the scope of the work that
` you did at Sara Lee?
` MR. THOMAS: Objection; form.
` THE WITNESS: Is Sara Lee the pies? I
` think Sara Lee was pies.
` BY MR. POWERS:
` Q. Okay. What was the scope of the work
` that you did at Sara Lee?
` A. So we had Kliklok machinery, and there
` were machines that were hooked up to their pie
` lines. And there was -- actually, that's back to
` some other stuff -- some camera work that had to be
` put in to make the pies work for Sara Lee. So I
` worked with Kliklok and with Sara Lee to get the
` line working properly.
` Q. When you say get the line working
` properly, what do you mean?
` A. Well, they wanted the pies to go into
` the boxes, but they wanted only the pies to go in
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`Page 18
` that were meeting their specifications. And so
` that meant there had to be rejecting of the ones
` that were not good, and the ones that were good
` were put into the boxes.
` Q. I see. And what type of machine then
` were you working on with Sara Lee?
` A. That was a Kliklok -- the machine was
` provided by Kliklok, both the rejection machine
` that was prior to the boxer, which included the
` camera, and also the boxing machine itself.
` And so my role was to work with that to
` get that working, because for Kliklok the camera
` system was new. It was not something they'd done
` before. Yeah, I believe it's along those lines.
` Q. Okay. And so this is a machine that
` Kliklok sold Sara Lee; is that true?
` A. Kliklok sold Sara Lee the machine.
` Q. And did that machine, like other
` Kliklok machines, come with an operator's manual?
` MR. THOMAS: Objection; form.
` THE WITNESS: It did, yes.
` BY MR. POWERS:
` Q. And while you were at Sara Lee did you
` ever look at the Kliklok machine's operator's
` manual as part of the scope of your work for Sara
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` Lee?
` MR. THOMAS: Objection; form.
` THE WITNESS: Probably, because I think
` I helped write it. I think I participated in
` writing of the manual because it came down to
` things like how to set the camera and how to set it
` up. So I do believe I saw and was a part of
` writing that manual.
` BY MR. POWERS:
` Q. And so while you were a third-party
` contractor working for Sara Lee, you were able to
` see the Kliklok manual; correct?
` MR. THOMAS: Objection; form, scope.
` THE WITNESS: Yes, but I was also at
` the same time consulting with Kliklok, if I
` remember correctly, because I did work with Kliklok
` for a long time after I formally left their employ
` and was a contractor.
` BY MR. POWERS:
` Q. You also worked for Mrs. Smith's
` Bakery; right?
` A. Unless I'm confusing Mrs. Smith and
` Sara Lee, but yes.
` Q. So if -- potentially. So Mrs. Smith's
` also does pies; right? Sells pies, makes pies?
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` A. Mrs. Smith's sells pies as well.
` Q. Okay. And so what was the nature of
` your work for Mrs. Smith's Bakery?
` A. I only put a camera into one of them,
` and I could be confused, as I'm sitting here, which
` one it was, but it was related to putting product
` into Kliklok machinery.
` Q. Okay. And so the pies come down from
` the baking line and get packaged into Kliklok
` machinery? Is that generally --
` A. Yes, that is. Generally it is. As I'm
` sitting here I don't remember which of the two. I
` could be mistaken when I was talking to you before
` about Sara Lee. That could have been Mrs. Smith's.
` I would have to go back and look which one it was.
` But it was definitely pies, it was definitely
` Kliklok machines. It was definitely going into the
` Kliklok machines as part of the pie line.
` Q. Okay. And so do you want to go back
` and fix the products that you were working with for
` Sara Lee? Was it not pies? Was it something else?
` I'm just not sure.
` MR. THOMAS: Objection; form.
` THE WITNESS: I'd have to think. I've
` really got to remember, because I -- as I'm sitting
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`Page 21
` here, I don't remember which was the pies with the
` camera, whether it was Mrs. Smith or whether it was
` Sara Lee. It was one of the two.
` BY MR. POWERS:
` Q. I see. And so as part of your work for
` Mrs. Smith's, were you a direct third-party
` consultant?
` MR. THOMAS: Objection; form.
` THE WITNESS: All of that work was in
` the time period when I was just starting out, and I
` don't recall, as I'm sitting here, precisely.
` BY MR. POWERS:
` Q. What time period are we talking?
` A. 2000 and -- 2000 to 2005, 2006,
` somewhere in that range.
` Q. And sometime in that time frame you
` worked for Mrs. Smith's Bakery; is that correct?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Were you an employee of Kliklok's when
` you worked for Mrs. Smith's, or were you working
` directly with Mrs. Smith's?
` A. I'm not absolutely sure as I sit here.
` I'm not --
` Q. You may have -- sorry. Go ahead.
` A. As I sit here, I'm not absolutely sure.
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`Page 22
` That -- during that time period there was -- it
` was -- roles were changing and moving, and I'm not
` a hundred percent sure as I sit here.
` Q. Okay. And potentially you were a
` third-party contractor working for Mrs. Smith's; is
` that right?
` A. Potentially.
` Q. And as part of your role for
` Mrs. Smith's did you review any operator's manuals
` for any of the machines that you worked on?
` A. I simply don't remember.
` Q. If you had asked to see an operator's
` manual while you were working for Mrs. Smith's, do
` you believe you would have been provided one?
` MR. THOMAS: Objection; foundation,
` relevance.
` THE WITNESS: I think I would have,
` because I was working with Kliklok machinery and I
` was a -- either a current Kliklok employee or a
` consultant of Kliklok or recently left Kliklok. So
` I think the answer is yes.
` BY MR. POWERS:
` Q. You also worked for Golden Flakes; is
` that right?
` A. Yeah, but that work was definitely
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` while I was with Kliklok.
` Q. Okay.
` A. I was definitely either an employee of
` Kliklok or a consultant for Kliklok at the time of
` Golden Flakes.
` Q. What was the Golden Flakes machine that
` you worked on?
` A. I believe that was the Cyclone, among
` others, and the Polaris bag-making machines.
` Q. So both of those machines are
` bag-making machines?
` A. Yes.
` Q. And I imagine the cereal gets put into
` the bag in those machines; is that correct?
` MR. THOMAS: Objection; form.
` THE WITNESS: Golden Flake is potato
` chips, and potato chips get put into the bag.
` BY MR. POWERS:
` Q. Got you. Did the machines that you
` worked on as part of the work with Golden Flakes
` have operator's manuals?
` A. Yes, they did.
` Q. Did you review any of the operator's
` manuals as part of your work for Golden Flakes?
` A. As part of the work for Golden Flake I
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` helped provide those manuals.
` Q. So this is a different Kliklok machine
` than the one we were talking about before?
` A. Yeah. This is from the Woodman Company
` which is a division of Kliklok. The Woodman
` Company is where I started at the Kliklok
` Corporation until branching out over all of their
` equipment, but this is their bag-making and snack
` food line of equipment.
` Q. And their bag-making and snack food
` line of equipment machines have operator's manuals;
` correct?
` A. They do.
` Q. And similarly to the machines of
` Kliklok's that we were talking about before, these
` operator's manuals go out with every sale of the
` machine; right?
` MR. THOMAS: Objection; form.
` THE WITNESS: To my knowledge, an
` operator manual was provided with each machine.
` BY MR. POWERS:
` Q. Were any of these manuals marked as
` confidential?
` A. I don't know one way or another.
` Q. Well, you helped write the manuals,
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` though; right?
` MR. THOMAS: Objection; form.
` THE WITNESS: I did, but I was writing
` technical content. How they took that technical
` content and put into a final form I'm just not
` sure, and it's not something I was paying attention
` to.
` BY MR. POWERS:
` Q. You worked for Thomas' English Muffins;
` is that true?
` A. I did.
` Q. And what type of machine did you work
` on for Thomas' English Muffins?
` A. Well, that was the English muffin line.
` English muffins were packaged into Kliklok
` equipment. They went through a series of things.
` We -- the interface to the portion of the machines
` which was just after they did the partial slice,
` because Thomas' English Muffins have not a complete
` slice. They have a half slice in them. And then
` from there we put the muffins into a box and
` wrapped it.
` Q. And what type of machine did Kliklok
` sell Thomas' English Muffins?
` A. I believe it's a top-loading machine.
`
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`Page 26
` Q. Did that machine have an operator's
` manual?
` A. It would have had an operator's manual,
` yes.
` Q. Did you help write that one?
` A. I don't think I helped write that, no.
` I think that manual was written before I was
` working on those machines. It was an existing line
` of top loaders.
` Q. Did Kliklok provide an operator's
` manual with every sale of its machine for the top
` loaders?
` MR. THOMAS: Objection; foundation,
` scope.
` THE WITNESS: Without knowing for sure,
` I would believe that they likely did.
` BY MR. POWERS:
` Q. Did you ever look at an operator's
` manual for the Kliklok machines while you were
` working for Thomas' English Muffins?
` A. Well, again, I was definitely, for
` Thomas, employed by Kliklok at the time. I don't
` know if I looked at the manual or not. I would
` have clearly looked at schematics, I would have
` clearly looked at how to hook it up, but whether I
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`Page 27
`
` looked at the manual or not, I don't know.
` Q. What about Frito-Lay? You worked for
` Frito-Lay; correct?
` A. So I worked for Frito-Lay with Kliklok,
` and I worked for Frito-Lay for a number of years
` after Kliklok.
` Q. Directly with Frito-Lay?
` A. Directly with Frito-Lay.
` Q. As an employee of Frito-Lay's?
` A. No. As a -- being paid by a company
` called Yaskawa who was trying to get a machine for
` Frito-Lay put into place. Yaskawa provided
` equipment. They hired me because it was worthwhile
` for them to do so, and then I worked with Frito-Lay
` for about a year working with -- for a version of
` the bag maker.
` Q. So you were a third-party contractor
` for Frito-Lay; is that right?
` MR. THOMAS: Objection; form.
` THE WITNESS: Yeah, I would be a
` third-party contractor for Frito-Lay.
` BY MR. POWERS:
` Q. And what kind of work did you do as
` part of that contracting?
` A. Mostly programming and control system
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`
` development.
` Q. What kind of machine were you working
` on?
` A. That was a new and improved bag maker,
` similar to the ones that Kliklok made but with
` different requirements for somewhat different
` applications.
` Q. Who made the machine that you were
` working on at Frito-Lay?
` A. It's a company up in Minnesota, in
` Alexandria, Minnesota. As I'm sitting here I don't
` remember the name of the company, but I would
` travel up to Minnesota and work with them to
` produce the machine for Frito-Lay. Frito-Lay would
` meet with us. We'd have weekly meetings at the
` place in Minnesota.
` Q. So it's fair to say it was a
` non-Kliklok machine; is that right?
` A. It was not a Kliklok machine.
` Q. Okay. And did that machine have an
` operator's manual?
` MR. THOMAS: Objection; foundation.
` THE WITNESS: So my portion of the work
` ended before the end of the machine. I was not
` aware of whether an operator's manual was put
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