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` UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`___________________________________________________
`MEDTRONIC, INC., AND MEDTRONIC
`VASCULAR, INC.,
`
` Petitioners,
`
`vs.
`
`TELEFLEX INNOVATIONS S.A.R.L.,
`
` Patent Owner.
`___________________________________________________
`IPR2020-00126 (Patent 8,048,032 B2)
`IPR2020-00127 (Patent 8,048,032 B2)
`IPR2020-00128 (Patent RE45,380 E)
`IPR2020-00129 (Patent RE45,380 E)
`IPR2020-00130 (Patent RE45,380 E)
`IPR2020-00132 (Patent RE45,760 E)
`IPR2020-00134 (Patent RE45,760 E)
`IPR2020-00135 (Patent RE45,776 E)
`IPR2020-00136 (Patent RE45,776 E)
`IPR2020-00137 (Patent RE47,379 E)
`IPR2020-00138 (Patent RE47,379 E)
`___________________________________________________
`
` VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF
` STEVEN ERB
`
`DATE: October 29, 2020
`
`TIME: 9:06 a.m. Central Time
`
`PLACE: Veritext Virtual Videoconference
`
`REPORTED BY: PAULA K. RICHTER, RMR, CRR, CRC
` (By videoconference)
`
`www.veritext.com
`
`888-391-3376
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
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`Page 1
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` UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`___________________________________________________
`MEDTRONIC, INC., AND MEDTRONIC
`VASCULAR, INC.,
`
` Petitioners,
`
`vs.
`
`TELEFLEX INNOVATIONS S.A.R.L.,
`
` Patent Owner.
`___________________________________________________
`IPR2020-00126 (Patent 8,048,032 B2)
`IPR2020-00127 (Patent 8,048,032 B2)
`IPR2020-00128 (Patent RE45,380 E)
`IPR2020-00129 (Patent RE45,380 E)
`IPR2020-00130 (Patent RE45,380 E)
`IPR2020-00132 (Patent RE45,760 E)
`IPR2020-00134 (Patent RE45,760 E)
`IPR2020-00135 (Patent RE45,776 E)
`IPR2020-00136 (Patent RE45,776 E)
`IPR2020-00137 (Patent RE47,379 E)
`IPR2020-00138 (Patent RE47,379 E)
`___________________________________________________
`
` VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF
` STEVEN ERB
`
`DATE: October 29, 2020
`
`TIME: 9:06 a.m. Central Time
`
`PLACE: Veritext Virtual Videoconference
`
`REPORTED BY: PAULA K. RICHTER, RMR, CRR, CRC
` (By videoconference)
`
`www.veritext.com
`
`888-391-3376
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
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` APPEARANCES
`
`ON BEHALF OF THE PETITIONERS (By videoconference):
`
`Page 2
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` Ms. Sharon Roberg-Perez, Esq.
`
` Mr. Cyrus A. Morton, Esq.
`
` Ms. Emily J. Tremblay, Esq.
`
` ROBINS KAPLAN, LLP
`
` 800 LaSalle Avenue, Suite 2800
`
` Minneapolis, Minnesota 55401
`
` (612) 349-8500
`
` sroberg-perez@robinskaplan.com
`
` cmorton@robinskaplan.com
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` etremblay@robinskaplan.com
`
`ON BEHALF OF THE PATENT OWNER (By videoconference):
`
` Mr. Joseph W. Winkels, Esq.
`
` Mr. J. Derek Vandenburgh, Esq.
`
` Ms. Tara C. Norgard, Esq.
`
` CARLSON, CASPERS, VANDENBURGH & LINDQUIST
`
` 225 South Sixth Street, Suite 4200
`
` Minneapolis, Minnesota 55402
`
` (612) 436-9600
`
` jwinkels@carlsoncaspers.com
`
` dvandenburgh@carlsoncaspers.com
`
` tnorgard@carlsoncaspers.com
`
`(APPEARANCES continued on next page)
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` A P P E A R A N C E S ( C o n t i n u e d )
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`Page 3
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`A L S O P R E S E N T :
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`A d a m W a l l i n - V i d e o g r a p h e r
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`J o e M a l o n e - V e r i t e x t C o n c i e r g e
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`P a u l Z a l e s k y
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`G r e g S m o c k - T e l e f l e x
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`
` INDEX
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`Page 4
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`WITNESS: STEVEN J. ERB PAGE:
`
` EXAMINATION BY MS. ROBERG-PEREZ............ 6
`
` EXAMINATION BY MR. WINKELS................. 84
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`EXHIBITS PREVIOUSLY MARKED AND REFERRED TO:
`
`EX. 1104 Instructions for Keeping Research
`
` Records, VSIMDT00030443 and 30439.. 27
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`EX. 1105 Instructions for Keeping Research
`
` Records, VSIMDT00030443 and 30439.. 27
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`EX. 2014 Six photos, VSIMDT00031685-31690... 87
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`EX. 2110 Invoice and Check stub............. 36
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`EX. 2114 Drawing of GuideLiner.............. 85
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`EX. 2122 Declaration of Steven Erb.......... 33
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`Page 5
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` P R O C E E D I N G S
`
` THE VIDEOGRAPHER: We are going on
`
`the record at 9:06 a.m. Today's date is October
`
`29th, 2020.
`
` This is Media Unit 1 of the
`
`video-recorded deposition of Stephen J. Erb, being
`
`taken via Zoom and taken by counsel for the
`
`Petitioner in the matter of Medtronic,
`
`Incorporated and Medtronic Vascular, Incorporated
`
`versus Teleflex Innovations, S.A.R.L., in the
`
`United States Patent and Trademark Office before
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`the Patent Trial and Appeal Board; Case Number
`
`IPR2020-00128.
`
` My name is Adam Wallin, from the
`
`firm Veritext, and I am the videographer. The
`
`court reporter is Paula Richter, from the firm
`
`Veritext.
`
` Will counsel please identify
`
`themselves for the record.
`
` MS. ROBERG-PEREZ: Sharon
`
`Roberg-Perez, on behalf of Petitioner Medtronic,
`
`Robins Kaplan. With me are my colleagues, Cy
`
`Morton and Emily Tremblay. And on the phone we
`
`also have Dr. Paul Zalesky.
`
` MR. WINKELS: And on behalf of
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`Page 6
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`Patent Owner, Joe Winkels with Carlson Caspers.
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`With me from my firm are Derek Vandenburgh and
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`Tara Norgard. And also on the line is Greg Smock
`
`with Teleflex.
`
` THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Will the court
`
`reporter please swear in the witness.
`
` STEVEN J. ERB,
`
`duly sworn, was examined and testified as follows:
`
` EXAMINATION
`
`BY MS. ROBERG-PEREZ:
`
`Q. Good morning, Mr. Erb. How are you?
`
`A. Good. Good morning to you.
`
`Q. Have you ever been deposed before?
`
`A. I have not.
`
`Q. Have you ever given any testimony under oath?
`
`A. No.
`
`Q. Okay. So you understand that today, you're
`
`under oath and that you're required to answer
`
`truthfully?
`
`A. Yes.
`
`Q. Okay. There are some ground rules for every
`
`deposition. It's important that the court
`
`reporter hear any answers to questions you give,
`
`so you have to answer audibly and not nod or shake
`
`your head in response.
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` Is that -- is that understood?
`
`A. Yes.
`
`Q. And it's important that you and I don't talk
`
`over each other, which is a little hard to manage
`
`on Zoom, but I will do -- so -- so please wait
`
`until I finish my question before you answer, and
`
`I'll do my best to wait until you've finished your
`
`answer before I ask my next question.
`
` Is that clear?
`
`A. Yes.
`
`Q. And if I ask a question that you don't
`
`understand, please let me know, and I'll do my
`
`best to rephrase.
`
` Is that understood?
`
`A. Yes.
`
`Q. We will take breaks during the day. If you
`
`need a break, just let me know. But before we
`
`take a break, I'm going to ask that you answer any
`
`question that's pending.
`
` Is that understood?
`
`A. Yes.
`
`Q. Is there any reason today, such as illness or
`
`medication, that you're not able to testify fully
`
`and accurately?
`
`A. No.
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`Q. Nothing today that would impair your memory?
`
`A. No.
`
`Q. Did you prepare for your deposition today?
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`Page 8
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`A. Yes.
`
`Q. How did you prepare?
`
`A. Had conversations with my lawyer group, and
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`they wrote down what I said, and then we went over
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`that. And that's -- I guess that's about it.
`
`Q. And so my question is a little more specific.
`
`You mentioned that you met with your lawyer group
`
`and they wrote down what you said.
`
`A. Yes.
`
`Q. Setting apart them writing down what you
`
`said, did you prepare today specifically -- or did
`
`you prepare specifically for this deposition
`
`today?
`
`A. Yes.
`
`Q. And how did you prepare for this deposition?
`
`A. They went over my declaration, talked about
`
`the timeline. I seen a bunch of documents that
`
`pertained to that timeline. And I guess -- I
`
`think that's about it.
`
`Q. So you said you've seen a bunch of documents.
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`What documents did you see?
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`A. I really don't remember. There were so many
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`of them, I really couldn't say.
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`Q. When did you see these documents?
`
`A. It could have been last week.
`
`Q. And you said you really can't remember
`
`because there were so many of them. Do you
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`remember -- do you remember what types of
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`documents you saw?
`
`A. Yes. Some were prints. Most of them were
`
`purchase orders.
`
`Q. When you say "prints," prints of what?
`
`A. Parts of the GuideLiner.
`
`Q. So anything -- did you see any documents
`
`besides invoices and prints that were parts of the
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`GuideLiner?
`
`A. No.
`
`Q. Okay. Aside from discussions with counsel,
`
`have you discussed with anyone your deposition?
`
`A. No.
`
`Q. Okay. I understand that currently, you're a
`
`technologist?
`
` MS. ROBERG-PEREZ: I'm sorry. Did
`
`someone say something?
`
` MR. WINKELS: Derek, I think you
`
`came off mute somehow.
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` MS. ROBERG-PEREZ: Okay.
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` MR. WINKELS: Sorry.
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` MS. ROBERG-PEREZ: No worries.
`
`BY MS. ROBERG-PEREZ:
`
`Q. Mr. Erb, currently, you're a technologist in
`
`the R&D group in Teleflex's interventional
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`business unit, right?
`
`A. Correct.
`
`Q. And you've held that position since Teleflex
`
`acquired Vascular Solutions in 2016?
`
`A. Yes.
`
`Q. And before that, I understand that you were a
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`technician at Vascular Solutions?
`
`A. Yes.
`
`Q. And is it correct that you started there in
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`2005?
`
`A. Late 2004.
`
`Q. Now, before you started working at Teleflex,
`
`did you know anybody there?
`
`A. No.
`
`Q. Okay. And before you worked at Teleflex,
`
`where did you work?
`
`A. I worked at a company called Raymedica.
`
`Q. How long had you worked there?
`
`A. Seven years.
`
`Q. And before Raymedica, where did you work?
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`A. I worked at Lake Region.
`
`Q. Can you spell that?
`
`A. Lake Region is L-A-K-E, R-E-G-I-O-N.
`
`Q. And before Lake Region, where did you work?
`
`A. That's going back quite a ways. I think it
`
`was Robbins Myers.
`
`Q. So going back to your work at Vascular
`
`Solutions, at the time that it was acquired, you
`
`were -- by Teleflex, you were a technician, right?
`
`A. Correct.
`
`Q. Was the technician position the most recent
`
`position -- sorry, strike that.
`
` Did you hold any other position at
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`Vascular Solutions besides technician?
`
`A. In case -- what time -- what time frame?
`
`Q. Any time frame at all.
`
`A. Yeah. I became -- right now, I'm a senior
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`technologist, R&D technologist.
`
`Q. And that's at Teleflex, right?
`
`A. Correct.
`
`Q. So when you were at Vascular Solutions, your
`
`title was a little different. It was technician,
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`right?
`
`A. Yes.
`
`Q. And did you hold any other title at Vascular
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`Solutions --
`
`A. Yes.
`
`Q. -- besides -- what titles were those?
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`A. That was same thing, senior technologist.
`
`Q. Okay. Any other positions besides senior
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`technologist and technician?
`
`A. No.
`
`Q. When you started at Vascular Solutions in
`
`late 2004, who -- to whom did you report?
`
`A. Jeff Welch.
`
`Q. Anybody besides Jeff Welch?
`
`A. Above him was Gregg Sutton.
`
`Q. Anybody besides Mr. Welch and Mr. Sutton?
`
`A. No.
`
`Q. And during your time at Vascular Solutions,
`
`did you report to anybody else besides Mr. Welch
`
`and Mr. Sutton?
`
`A. My whole time at Vascular Solutions?
`
`Q. Yes.
`
`A. Yes. We had management change, so John
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`Bridgeman would have been later.
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`Q. Anybody else besides John Bridgeman?
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`A. Not under Vascular Solutions.
`
`Q. Okay. And during your time at Vascular
`
`Solutions, was there anybody who reported to you?
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`A. No.
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`Q. I'd like to understand your education
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`background. When did you graduate from high
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`Page 13
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`school?
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`A. 1972.
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`Q. Did you earn a degree after high school?
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`A. Yes. A vocational college degree in
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`toolmaking.
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`Q. And when did you earn that degree?
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`A. 1974, I believe.
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`Q. Okay. Apart from that degree, any other
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`degree -- any other degrees?
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`A. No.
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`Q. Have you had any specialized training related
`
`to your work at Vascular Solutions?
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`A. No.
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`Q. So when you -- as a technologist at Teleflex,
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`what did you do?
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`A. The -- well, I do machining parts,
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`prototyping, tool and fixture, and when I first
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`started, some assembly of -- of prototypes and --
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`and lab work, testing.
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`Q. So you said when you first started. Do you
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`mean when you first started at Teleflex or when
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`you first started at Vascular Solutions?
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`A. First started at Vascular.
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`Q. Do you -- did you also machine parts when you
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`Page 14
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`started at Vascular?
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`A. Yes.
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`Q. Okay. What's the first step that you take
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`when machining a new part?
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`A. Well, a -- usually, a sketch or a print is
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`done or maybe a verbal instruction. And then I
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`would procure the material to make the part or --
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`or fixture and then look at it and see what kind
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`of tooling I would need, cutters and machine that
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`would be required to finish that part.
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`Q. So you said "usually a sketch or print." Is
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`this a sketch or print that is provided to you?
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`A. Yes.
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`Q. And you said sometimes verbal instructions.
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`A. Yes.
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`Q. What percentage of the time are you given a
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`sketch or print?
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`A. Are you talking present tense or past tense?
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`Q. Let's start now, today, present tense. About
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`what percentage of the time do you start or
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`machine a part with a -- with a sketch or print?
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`A. Probably 90 percent of the time.
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`Q. So let's -- now I'd like to ask about the
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`practice at Vascular Solutions when you started.
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`When you went to machine a new part, about what
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`percentage of the time would you start with the
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`sketch or print?
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`A. When I started, yeah, probably more --
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`probably 75/25 maybe, I would say.
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`Q. Does that mean 75 percent of the time you
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`would start with a sketch or print and 25 percent
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`of the time you would not?
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`A. Yes.
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`Q. And when you started with a sketch or print,
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`were those sketches or prints something -- things
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`that you would keep?
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`A. Please repeat that.
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`Q. Are sketches and prints that you were given
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`to machine a part from, are those documents that
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`you would keep?
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`A. Probably for a period of time, until I no
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`longer needed them.
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`Q. What period of time?
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`A. As long as I was working on it, I would keep
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`that print. I may keep it for a short time
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`afterwards, and then I would usually just dispose
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`of it.
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`Q. And once a new part had been machined, what
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`would you do with that part next?
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`A. I would bring it, show it to the person
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`that -- that had asked for that.
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`Q. Would you inspect it yourself?
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`A. Yes.
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`Q. Would you ever take measurements of the part
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`you machined?
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`A. Yes.
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`Q. Would you ever write those measurements down
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`anywhere?
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`A. No.
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`Q. So you would take measurements. What was the
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`purpose of taking measurements?
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`A. To be sure that it had met the print or
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`specifications that were required.
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`Q. Did you ever take photographs of any of the
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`parts that you machined?
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`A. No.
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`Q. So in your declaration, you stated that you
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`assist engineers with projects. What types of
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`projects?
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`A. Whatever is required. Whatever the
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`engineer -- there might be some tooling or, you
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`know, machining a piece or a part that is
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`necessary for -- for a project.
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`Q. What is tooling?
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`A. Tooling would be something to -- you know,
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`maybe for assembly to hold something or to process
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`something.
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`Q. Okay. What do you mean by "to hold
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`something"?
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`A. You know, maybe an example would be to hold
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`like two parts in alignment for bonding or a mold
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`to melt something together or something --
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`something to further a process, I would say.
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`Something that would . . .
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`Q. Okay. And when you would be asked to do
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`tooling, is there anything about that that you
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`would write down?
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`A. Yes.
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`Q. What would you write down?
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`A. That might be something that would be a
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`verbal instruction I need. An engineer would ask,
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`I need something that would do this, or help me do
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`this, and so I would write that down
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`dimension-wise what -- what would -- would do
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`that, what would -- would fill that need. And
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`then I would --
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`Q. Where -- I'm sorry. I interrupted you.
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`A. Yeah. And then I would make that part.
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`Q. Okay. You said you would write that down,
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`the dimensions. Where would you write that down?
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`A. Just on a -- probably just a piece of paper
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`or notepad.
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`Q. Would you keep that piece of paper?
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`A. For a short while of time, while -- as long
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`as I was working on it, until I made sure that
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`worked.
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`Q. Okay. Earlier, you mentioned prototyping.
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`A. Yes.
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`Q. So in your role now at Teleflex, do you do
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`prototyping?
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`A. No.
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`Q. When you were at Vascular Solutions starting
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`in 2004, did you do prototyping?
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`A. Yes.
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`Q. How did you know what to build?
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`A. We'd have meetings with the engineers, and we
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`would discuss what -- what the needs were, what
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`we -- what we were doing. And so I was involved
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`in that, and that's -- that's where that would
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`come from.
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`Q. So in these meetings, would anybody take
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`notes during the meetings?
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`A. I don't remember that.
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`Page 19
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`meetings?
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`A. No.
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`Q. So how did you remember what to build?
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`A. Well, I have a pretty good memory. I --
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`that's how I ran. I would just remember.
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`Q. Okay. So you never worked from a drawing?
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`A. Yes.
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`Q. So what percentage of the time when you were
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`building prototypes did you work from a drawing?
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`A. I don't know what that would be.
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`Q. You don't know --
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`A. Percentage-wise.
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`Q. Can you make a guess?
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` MR. WINKELS: Objection; form.
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`BY MS. ROBERG-PEREZ:
`
`Q. You can answer.
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`A. I would rather not.
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`Q. So it's your testimony that sometimes you
`
`worked from memory and sometimes you had drawings?
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`A. Yes.
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`Q. And during the times that you had drawings,
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`were those drawings something that you would keep?
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`A. Again, for a while, I wasn't in the habit of
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`keeping -- because there were just too many of
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`Page 20
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`them.
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`Q. Why?
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`A. Just for, I guess, general housekeeping.
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`Q. So besides working from memory and drawings,
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`did you ever work from a written description of
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`what a prototype was supposed to look like?
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`A. No.
`
`Q. Okay. Once you've assembled a prototype, and
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`this is back in the 2004 time frame when you
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`worked -- started working at Vascular Solutions,
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`what would you do with it next?
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`A. I would show it to whoever had asked for it,
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`give it to them. Then the parts would be
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`assembled.
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`Q. You would show it to whoever asked --
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`A. Right.
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`Q. -- and then the parts would be assembled.
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`Who would do the assembling?
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`A. I participated in some of it, but usually the
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`engineer that was involved.
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`Q. You said you participated in some of it.
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`A. Right.
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`Q. How would you -- how would you participate?
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`A. Well, whatever is required for assembly,
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`however the parts were fit together.
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`Q. However the -- however was required -- okay.
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`So I'm a little bit confused. You said usually --
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`so the engineer would be doing the assembly,
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`right?
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`A. Yes.
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`Q. And you said you would participate. How
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`would you participate in an engineer's assembly of
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`a prototype?
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`A. Well, you might do like bonding or, you know,
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`whatever that product -- product was. Okay? So
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`you might -- you would fit the pieces together, so
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`you might be bonding or reflowing, however -- or
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`physically, you know, putting the parts together.
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`Q. And so was your participation doing the
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`physical bonding or physically putting the parts
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`together, or would the engineer be doing that and
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`you would be doing something else?
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`A. It would probably be both. I would assist --
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`I would assist the engineer, too, you know, maybe
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`side by side.
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`Q. Okay. Once a prototype was assembled, what
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`would happen with that prototype next?
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`A. It would be tested to see the functionability
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`of it.
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`Q. You said it would be tested. Who would do
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`the testing?
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`A. Usually the engineer.
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`Q. You said "usually the engineer". When
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`would -- when would somebody other than the
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`engineer do the testing?
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`A. Maybe the technicians would, too, sometimes
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`if we were a large group or more than a handful.
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`Depending on the time and the testing, the
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`technician would help out.
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`Q. Would you help out with testing?
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`A. Yes.
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`Q. How did you know how to test something?
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`A. There would usually be some protocol.
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`That -- that would come from the direction of the
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`engineer.
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`Q. And would the engineer write that protocol
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`down for you?
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`A. No. Usually verbal.
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`Q. And would you -- would you write the protocol
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`down once you had -- had heard it verbally?
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`A. Yes.
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`Q. Where would you write it down?
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`A. Probably in my notebook.
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`Q. And -- probably in your notebook. Okay. So
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`then you have a protocol written in your notebook,
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`and you'd follow the protocol to test the
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`prototype, right?
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`A. Correct.
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`Q. Would you keep notes as you were testing the
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`prototype?
`
`A. Yes.
`
`Q. And where would those notes be kept?
`
`A. They would be kept in a notebook.
`
`Q. How long would that notebook be maintained?
`
`A. Repeat the question, please.
`
`Q. Strike that. I'll ask a better question.
`
` How long would you keep your
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`notebooks?
`
`A. Quite a while. As long as you worked on that
`
`project.
`
`Q. Did Vascular Solutions have a quality system
`
`for managing documents?
`
`A. Yes.
`
`Q. What system was that?
`
`A. I don't know. I couldn't say.
`
`Q. You don't know; you couldn't say, but you
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`knew they had a quality system?
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`A. Correct.
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`Q. Okay. And so I -- I probably am not asking
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`the question very well. What do you mean when you
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`said that they had a quality system?
`
`A. Well, we had people that worked in quality,
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`and -- but being in R&D, I wasn't really part of
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`that group. That would have been a separate
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`group.
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`Q. I see.
`
`A. That -- that wasn't my role.
`
`Q. Did Vascular Solutions have a policy of any
`
`sort regarding laboratory notebooks?
`
`A. Yes.
`
`Q. What was that policy?
`
`A. To truthfully and -- put in your -- your
`
`documents or your testing. And then there were
`
`rules to that of what -- what you could do with
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`them and -- basic rules, that they didn't leave
`
`the premises and, you know, you kept them in a
`
`safe place.
`
`Q. Do you recall when you received your first
`
`notebook at Vascular Solutions?
`
`A. No.
`
`Q. Well, you started at Vascular Solutions in
`
`late 2004, right?
`
`A. Correct.
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`Q. When you started, were you issued a notebook?
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`A. Yes. It must have been somewhere around that
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`time.
`
`Q. Did you have more than one lab notebook while
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`you were at Vascular Solutions?
`
`A. No.
`
`Q. So you started in late 2004, right?
`
`A. Correct.
`
`Q. And the company was acquired in 2016 by
`
`Teleflex?
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`A. Correct.
`
`Q. And is it your testimony that you had one lab
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`notebook over 12 years?
`
`A. Yes. I was -- I was not a very good note
`
`taker.
`
`Q. Okay. Did you make entries in that notebook
`
`chronologically?
`
`A. Yes.
`
`Q. And do you know where that notebook is?
`
`A. No, I do not.
`
`Q. Were you asked to look for it?
`
`A. Yes.
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`Q. And you -- did you look for it?
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`A. No. I knew that it had been disposed of over
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`time.
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`Q. So you had one notebook between 2004 and
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`2016. So the notebook still existed in 2016; is
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`that correct?
`
`A. No. It would have been gone by then.
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`Q. Do you remember roughly the last time was
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`that you saw the notebook?
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`A. No, I do not.
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`Q. Okay. Besides the laboratory -- the single
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`laboratory notebook that -- it's your testimony
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`that no longer exists, right?
`
`A. Correct.
`
`Q. During your course of work at Vascular
`
`Solutions, did you keep any other sort of written
`
`record of the daily work you did?
`
`A. With Vascular, no.
`
`Q. I want to go back to something you said a
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`little while ago. You said you weren't a very
`
`good note taker. What did you mean by that?
`
`A. I relied on -- on my memory more. My role
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`didn't require me to take notes, for the most
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`part, since I had documentation in front of me
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`with prints and stuff. So the documentations were
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`usually someplace else, not with me.
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`Q. So, Mr. Erb, did you get a packet of
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`documents?
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`A. I did.
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`Q. Okay. I'd like you to look at one that's
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`been premarked. There are a bunch of numbers in
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`the bottom right-hand corner.
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`A. I have to open the package?
`
`Q. Yes, please do that. So there should be
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`three documents.
`
`A. Okay.
`
`Q. And find the one that's a single page.
`
`A. Which exhibit number?
`
`Q. In the bottom right, it should have -- the
`
`number should be -- 1105 would be one of the
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`numbers. And the top of the page says
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`"Instructions for Keeping Research Records".
`
`A. Okay.
`
`Q. Do you -- do you have that page?
`
`A. I do.
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` MS. ROBERG-PEREZ: And for the
`
`record, that's actually in the Marked Exhibits
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`folder. And let's see. Exhibit -- excuse me just
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`a minute. I just want to make sure we've got the
`
`exhibit number in the record. Yep. In the bottom
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`right for IPRs, 126, 128, 132, 135, and 137. This
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`is Exhibit 1104.
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`BY MS. ROBERG-PEREZ:
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`Q. So, Mr. Erb, is this a page you recognize?
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`A. I do not.
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`Q. Okay. Well, I'll represent to you that this
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`is a single page taken out of a Vascular Solutions
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`laboratory notebook. And do you see that at the
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`top it says, "Instructions for Keeping Research
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`Records"?
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`A. Okay.
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`Q. Do you see that the first item is "Enter all
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`data directly into this book"?
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`A. Correct.
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`Q. Is that something you did in your single
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`laboratory notebook?
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`A. Yes.
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`Q. You testified that by 2016, that notebook no
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`longer existed, right?
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`A. Correct.
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`Q. So when did you stop entering data into a
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`notebook?
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` MR. WINKELS: Objection; form.
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` THE WITNESS: I don't remember.
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`BY MS. ROBERG-PEREZ:
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`Q. Okay. Let's go down to number 5 on this
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`page. Do you see that it says, "The notebook and
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`its contents are to be considered confidential and
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`Page 29
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`of great value"?
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` I read that correctly, right?
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`A. Correct.
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`Q. And it also says, "Exercise every care in
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`preserving them," doesn't it?
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`A. Yes.
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`Q. And that you're to report the loss or theft
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`of a research notebook to a group leader
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`immediately, right?
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`A. Yes.
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`Q. When your notebook went missing, did you
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`report that?
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`A. Well, it didn't go missing. We were told we
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`no longer needed them. We went to an electronic
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`version or something. But I was no longer doing
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`testing, or that wasn't part of my role anymore.
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`So just housecleaning, I just got rid of whatever
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`prints and the notebook I had through the shredder
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`service that we did.
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`Q. Okay. So you said it didn't go missing. You
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`were told that you no longer needed to keep lab
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`notebooks; is that correct?
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`A. Yes.
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`Q. And is that because instead of physical lab
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`notebooks, people were keeping electronic records?
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`www.veritext.com
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`A. I believe so.
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`Q. And the notebooks that had existed in hard
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`copy, were those notebooks scanned into electronic
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`Page 30
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`format?
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`A. I -- I do not know.
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`Q. Did you personally get rid of your notebook?
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`A. Yes.
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`Q. How did you do that?
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`A. We have like a shredding service where we
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`have bins that you can throw -- put things in, so
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`I put it in there.
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`Q. What else did you put into that bin?
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`A. Over time, just prints and pieces of paper.
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`Q. Okay. Were you asked to collect any sort of
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`documents in connection with this matter?
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`A. Recently or when -- what -- what -- excuse
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`me. What time frame?
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`Q. Recently, were you asked to collect any sort
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`of documents in this matter?
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`A. I was asked if I had any.
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`Q. And what did you answer?
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`A. Well, unfortunately, no.
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`Q. Okay. Do you recall when it was that you
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`shredded your notebook?
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`A. No, I do not.
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`www.veritext.com
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`Q. Who told you to stop keeping a laboratory
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`notebook?
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`A. I don't remember that.
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`Q. Do you know if it was somebody you reported
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`to that told you to stop keeping a lab notebook?
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`A. No, I do not remember that.
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`Q. Were there other technicians at Vascular
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`Solutions at the time that you stopped keeping
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`notebooks?
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`A. Yes.
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`Q. Do you know if they stopped keeping
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`notebooks, too?
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`A. No, I do not.
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`Q. Do you know if other people shredded their
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`notebooks the same time you did?
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`A. No, I do not.
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`Q. Do you keep a notebook today for your work at
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`Teleflex?
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`A. No, I do not.
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`Q. Did you keep any sort of records today,
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`written records, of your daily work at Teleflex?
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`A. No. We keep electronic records now.
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`Q. Okay. Now, you keep electronic records?
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`A. Yes.
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`Q. Have you always kept electronic records while
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`you have been part of Teleflex?
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`A. No.
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`Q. When did you start keeping electronic records
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`in your work at Teleflex?
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`A. Recently. Probably the last two years.
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`Q. Okay. And do you recall why you started
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`keeping electronic records in the last two years?
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`A. Yes. Management changed where they have
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`programs to -- to do that.
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`Q. Okay. So between 2016 and 2018, is it
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`correct that you did not keep electronic records
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`of your work at Teleflex?
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`A. Yes.
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`Q. And is it true that between 2016 and 2018,
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`you also didn't keep written -- written records of
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`your work at Teleflex?
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`A. Repeat that, please.
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`Q. Is it correct that between 2016 and 2018, you
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`
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