`
`Transcript of Philipp Miehlich
`
`Date: June 7, 2021
`Case: PEAG LLC, et al -v- VARTA Microbattery GMBH. (PTAB)
`
`Planet Depos
`Phone: 888.433.3767
`Email:: transcripts@planetdepos.com
`www.planetdepos.com
`
`WORLDWIDE COURT REPORTING & LITIGATION TECHNOLOGY
`
`JLab/Cambridge, Exh. 1036, p. 1
`JLab/Cambridge v. Varta, 2020-01212
`
`

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`Transcript of Philipp Miehlich
`Conducted on June 7, 2021
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` I N D E X
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`WITNESS EXAMINATION
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`PHILIPP MIEHLICH
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` By Ms. Tempesta.....................6,81,86
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` By Mr. Hartmann.......................76,82
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` E X H I B I T S
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`NUMBER DESCRIPTION PAGE
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`1032 Article in ElectronicsWeekly.com
` entitled "Smaller Rechargeable
` Li-ion Button Cells for Wearables."...32
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`2045 Declaration of Philipp Miehlich.......20
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` UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
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`PEAG LLC (d/b/a JLab Audio), AUDIO PARTNERSHIP LLC
`and AUDIO PARTNERSHIP PLC (d/b/a Cambridge Audio),
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` Petitioner,
`
` v.
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` VARTA MICROBATTERY GMBH,
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` Patent Owner.
`
`
` Case IPR2020-01211 Case IPR2020-01212
` USP 9,496,581 UPS 9,153,835
`
` Case IPR2020-01213 Case IPR2020-01214
` USP 9,799,858 USP 9,799,913
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`
`
` VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF:
`
` PHILIPP MIEHLICH
`
`
`
` TRANSCRIPT OF TESTIMONY, as reported
`
`by Nancy C. Bendish, Certified Court Reporter,
`
`RMR, CRR and Notary Public of the States of
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`New York and New Jersey, conducted virtually via
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`Zoom Videoconference on Monday, June 7, 2021,
`
`commencing at 8:02 a.m. EST.
`
`
`
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` THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Here begins the
`video deposition of Philipp Miehlich in the
`matter of PEAG LLC et al. versus VARTA
`Microbattery GmbH held in the United States
`Patent and Trademark Office, Cause Number
`IPR2020-01211; 12, 13 and 14.
` Today's date is Monday, June 7th,
`2021. The time is 8:02 a.m., Eastern Standard
`Time.
` Your videographer of the day is
`0
`Brendan Case representing Planet Depos. This
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`deposition is taking place by video
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`teleconference via Zoom.
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` Would counsel present please
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`identify themselves and who they represent.
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` MS. TEMPESTA: Jennifer Tempesta
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`with Baker Botts on behalf of petitioners. Here
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`with me today is Nick Palmieri, also of Baker
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`Botts.
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` MR. HARTMANN: I'm Mike Hartmann
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`for Respondents in all of the -- I gather it's
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`being taken in all four IPRs, for Respondents.
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`PLANET DEPOS
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`A P P E A R A N C E S:
`
`(All participated remotely via
` Zoom Videoconference)
`
`
`ON BEHALF OF PETITIONER, PEAG LLC, AUDIO
`PARTNERSHIP LLC and AUDIO PARTNERSHIP PLC:
`
`
` BAKER BOTTS LLP
` BY: JENNIFER C. TEMPESTA, ESQ.
` NICK PALMIERI, ESQ.
` 30 Rockefeller Plaza
` New York, New York 10112
` 212.408.2500
` jennifer.tempesta@bakerbotts.com
` nick.palmieri@bakerbotts.com
`
`
`ON BEHALF OF PATENT OWNER,
`VARTA MICROBATTERY GMBH:
`
`
` LEYDIG VOIT & MAYER, LTD.
` BY: H. MICHAEL HARTMANN, ESQ.
` ROBERT T. WITTMANN, ESQ.
` Two Prudential Plaza
` 180 N. Stetson Avenue, Suite 4900
` Chicago, Illinois 60601
` 312.616.5600
` mhartmann@leydig.com
` bwittmann@leydig.com
`
`
`ALSO PRESENT:
`
` DR. RAINER JOSTES
` VINCENT ZHANG, Baker Botts
` LILY OLM, German Translator
` JARED BENNETT, Planet Depos Technician
` BRENDAN CASE, Planet Depos Videographer
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`JLab/Cambridge, Exh. 1036, p. 2
`JLab/Cambridge v. Varta, 2020-01212
`
`

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`2 (5 to 8)
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`Transcript of Philipp Miehlich
`Conducted on June 7, 2021
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`Mr. Rainer Jostes is also present to assist in
`any technical translation problems that might
`arise.
` THE VIDEOGRAPHER: The court
`reporter today is Nancy Bendish, representing
`Planet Depos. Would the court reporter please
`swear in the witness.
`
`LILY OLM, German Translator, was remotely sworn
`by the Court Reporter.
`P H I L I P P M I E H L I C H,
` having been remotely sworn by the
` Court Reporter, testified as follows:
` THE REPORTER: Please state your
`full name for the record.
` THE WITNESS: Philipp Miehlich.
` THE REPORTER: And your address,
`where you're presently located.
` THE WITNESS: At this point in
`time I am in the office at Varta Platz 1 in an
`office building of the VARTA company.
` - - -
`
`for you to speak in English today to the extent
`that you're comfortable, and if you'd like the
`assistance of an interpreter at any time, please
`just let us know. Is that okay?
` A. Okay.
` Q. So before we jump into your
`declarations, I see that you have some papers
`there with you today in the office that you're
`sitting in. Could you tell us what papers you
`have with you?
` A. Yes. I have my declaration with
`me. I have the VARTA patents as well with me.
` Q. Great. And by the VARTA patents,
`are those US patent numbers 9,153,835,
`9,496,581 --
` A. Not so fast. It's '581, it's
`'858, it's '835 and it's '913, yes.
` Q. Great, thank you.
` And is there anyone in the room
`with you today?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Who is there with you?
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`EXAMINATION BY MS. TEMPESTA:
` Q. Good morning, Mr. Miehlich. I'd
`like to just start off with some procedural
`details. I understand that in these IPRs you
`have submitted four identical declarations; is
`that correct?
` (Question translated.)
` A. (Through Translator) That's
`correct, declarations.
` Q. And those declarations were
`submitted in English, correct?
` (Question translated.)
` A. (Through Translator) The document
`is in English, that's correct.
` Q. And it's our understanding that
`you have some conversational ability to speak
`English; is that also correct?
` (Question translated.)
` A. (Through Translator) Yes, I think
`that that's the case. I believe that we can do
`the deposition mostly in English.
` Q. That's great, sir. So we'll ask
`
` A. Dr. Jostes.
` Q. And why is he in the room with you
`today?
` A. In case I have some issues or do
`not understand some technical wording or
`whatever, that he can support with some
`technical pronunciation or in case Mrs. Olm is
`not this detailed technical phrasing, that he
`can support.
` Q. And who is Dr. Jostes?
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` A. Dr. Jostes was former VARTA
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`employee, yeah, and he is on the retirement
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`since (indiscernible).
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` Q. Thank you. Is there anyone else
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`there in the room with you today?
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` A. Nope, nobody.
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` Q. Have you ever had your deposition
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`taken before?
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` A. Sorry?
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` Q. Have you ever had your deposition
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`or testimony taken in a proceeding before?
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` A. No, never. Sorry.
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`PLANET DEPOS
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`JLab/Cambridge, Exh. 1036, p. 3
`JLab/Cambridge v. Varta, 2020-01212
`
`

`

`Transcript of Philipp Miehlich
`Conducted on June 7, 2021
`9
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` MS. TEMPESTA: Declaration.
` Q. And have you spoken with him in
`connection with preparing your declaration?
` A. No.
` Q. Did you speak with him at all?
` A. Yes.
` Q. And when was that?
` A. Oh, that was in a call where I --
`where we had together explaining the situation
`about market and some things.
` Q. Could you provide a little more
`detail. To what market are you referring?
` A. I am referring to the CoinPower
`market and its success.
` Q. So, is it fair to say that you
`provided him with some information with respect
`to VARTA's batteries in connection with these
`proceedings?
` A. I provided him the ideas how it
`came to this product and to the success,
`commercial success.
` Q. And for how long approximately did
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` Q. Just for clarity, did you ever
`appear at a trial or other court proceeding
`where you provided any testimony in the past?
` (Question translated.)
` A. No, never.
` Q. Throughout the course of today's
`deposition, if at any time you don't understand
`a question or would like for me to rephrase a
`question, please just let me know. Unless you
`tell me otherwise, I will assume that you
`understand my question, okay?
` A. Okay.
` Q. Throughout the deposition I'm
`going to be referring to the patent owner here,
`VARTA Microbattery GmbH, as "VARTA"; is that
`okay with you?
` A. That is okay with me.
` Q. Okay, great.
` So just to confirm, the content of
`the four declarations that you submitted in
`these IPRs are all the same. It's four
`identical declarations, correct?
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` A. I do not understand the question
`whether this is four different declarations. I
`have submitted one, I believe it's one
`declaration.
` Q. Understood. And so we're going to
`focus on one that was submitted in one of the
`four IPRs today.
` Did you yourself prepare your
`declaration?
` A. With the support of the lawyers,
`yeah, because I explain in German, then it was
`translated, and I write it again and sign it.
` Q. Understood. Are you familiar with
`the name Martin Peckerar?
` A. Martin Peckerar, yes, I learned
`the name Martin Peckerar.
` Q. And who is that?
` A. That is highly sophisticated
`professor who understands a lot of energy
`storage devices and is making his aussage, his
`explanation for the situation.
` (Reporter clarification.)
`
`you speak?
` A. All in all, maybe ten minutes.
`All in all.
` Q. And just to confirm, you're not a
`lawyer; is that right?
` A. I'm by far not a lawyer, sorry.
`Would be an interesting job, but I'm by far not
`a lawyer. I do not understand the legal phrases
`or learnings or whatever.
` Q. And you don't have any specific
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`background in United States patents or anything
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`like that, correct?
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` A. Not at all, not at all.
`13
` Q. Okay. And you're not a technical
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`expert, are you?
`15
` A. Maybe I'm not a technical expert
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`to the extent of our R&D specialists, but I
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`would consider myself, with regards to battery
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`know-how and my background, from my university
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`degree, let's say, a very well-known person in
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`the battery industry to understand batteries,
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`yes.
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`JLab/Cambridge, Exh. 1036, p. 4
`JLab/Cambridge v. Varta, 2020-01212
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`

`

`Transcript of Philipp Miehlich
`Conducted on June 7, 2021
`13
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`consider. You do a kind of master of business
`administration and you do in parallel university
`study on electronics, and electronics but also
`some mechanical stuff, yeah. At these
`universities.
` Q. Understood. And did you attend
`any additional school after obtaining this
`degree?
` A. Oh, I was participating in some
`seminars, some trainings like this, yeah. After
`the university.
` Q. Okay. And then what did you do
`after university?
` A. After university I was in a
`company, they have been doing semiconductors,
`was former times headquarter in the US, later it
`was acquired by Philips Semiconductors.
` Q. And what was the time period of
`this work?
` A. Give me a second. '86 to '90.
` Q. And then what did you do in 1990
`after leaving that position?
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` Q. Okay. Let's talk about your
`university degree. Can you tell us a little bit
`about that?
` A. Yes. On my professional I have a
`degree in (German word). Don't ask me how to
`translate that.
` (Reporter clarification.)
` THE TRANSLATOR: In economics and
`electronics.
` A. From a polytechnical high school
`in Arlen, that is in Baden-Württemberg.
` Q. And that was high school. Is
`there a university degree that took place after
`that?
` MR. HARTMANN: That wasn't high
`school.
` THE WITNESS: High school does not
`exist in Germany.
` MS. TEMPESTA: Apologies, sir.
` THE TRANSLATOR: Interpreter's
`remark: This is a specialized university that
`he's referring to.
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` Q. So when you said polytechnical
`high school, that's a specialized university?
` MR. HARTMANN: He didn't say
`polytechnical high school. We're having a
`problem with the communication at this point.
` MS. TEMPESTA: Okay. That's what
`the transcript says. Apologies. We should get
`clarity on that.
`BY MS. TEMPESTA:
` Q. Sir, could you please repeat what
`you said. You said something about a degree in
`economics and electronics and where was that
`degree from?
` A. That degree was from polytechnical
`University of Arlen in Baden-Württemberg.
` Q. Thank you for the clarification.
` And now when you referred to
`economics and electronics, can you give a little
`more detail on that. Is that like having a
`double major, one in economics and one in
`electronics?
` A. Yes. That is what you can
`
` A. I joined VARTA, from 91 hundreds.
` Q. And you're still currently
`employed by VARTA?
` A. Yes, I'm currently employed by
`VARTA, but I'm on a transition to retirement.
`But at the very moment I'm on vacation.
` Q. Seems like it. Okay.
` So could you just walk us through
`your positions at VARTA starting with the
`beginning when you began there in approximately
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`1991?
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` A. Okay. So, you like we have the
`12
`whole story; let me think about that.
`13
` So, I started in '91 as a product
`14
`manager for rechargeable products. That was
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`rechargeable button cells and rechargeable
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`so-called cylindrical cells.
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` In this times there was --
`18
`rechargeable was mainly or only two chemical
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`systems, that was nickel-cadmium and
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`nickel-metal hydride. Later from job location I
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`was a key account manager for telecom --
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`JLab/Cambridge, Exh. 1036, p. 5
`JLab/Cambridge v. Varta, 2020-01212
`
`

`

`Transcript of Philipp Miehlich
`Conducted on June 7, 2021
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` (Reporter clarification.)
` THE WITNESS: Maybe I put this
`microphone a little closer?
` MR. HARTMANN: No, Philipp, it's
`not that; it's just the words. The sound is
`okay but the words are a little foreign.
` THE WITNESS: Maybe it's my
`English.
` A. I said I started as product
`manager for rechargeable battery systems.
`Battery systems in this regards are coin battery
`types or button cell types; and on the other
`side it was cylindrical types like you call it
`in America, double A, triple A.
` Later I was involving for key
`account manager for the telecom industry, that
`was '92, '93 roughly, when the digitalization of
`mobile communication started with this so-called
`GSM telephony when I was supporting or looking
`for customers like Nokia, Ericsson. Motorola
`copy, that was an America company was doing
`that.
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`products, one of the products was later this
`CoinPower. CoinPower is the name for this
`button cell that we are having the issue with.
`CoinPower is a brand name of a button cell
`rechargeable lithium button cell.
` Q. Just for the record, I believe
`it's coin, c-o-i-n.
` With respect to that position as
`general manager that began in 2009, is that the
`same position that you hold today?
` A. No. Today I'm, let's say, set in
`this transition phase to retirement. We have
`been looking, due to my age of course, and I
`decided not now but earlier, year ago or two
`years ago, roughly, I like to disappear. Not
`that I'm not happy with what I'm doing, but from
`a certain age you should consider to leave it to
`the younger people, and this was transferred to
`my successor.
` So, I'm actually I'm on vacation.
`I have transferred the position already missing
`last months, and since April operative and not
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` And later I became business
`development manager for these markets and then
`there was a change of organization in the
`company. They have been looking to complete new
`devices which was not this nickel-metal hydride
`based system; it was rather lithium-based
`systems, which was starting to be also moving
`into this telecom industry. And with my
`experience the company thought I should be in
`key role in this product management development
`of this lithium product, which later leads to
`thin pouch-type cells which have been used, for
`example, in famous so-called MP-3 players like
`the Echo --
` (Reporter clarification.)
` A. Echo, this big company on the west
`coast with MP-3 players where you have your
`sounds installed on a device and listen to the
`music with wire headphones.
` And in 2009 I was asked to take
`the position as general manager for business
`unit where one of the products, beside other
`
`responsible for anything at VARTA.
` Q. Okay. And so until April was your
`position still general manager?
` A. Yes, until April my position was
`general manager business unit called
`Entertainment and Industrial.
` Q. And who is your successor?
` A. My successor is Dr. Michael
`Berger.
` Q. Could you spell that?
`0
` A. Michael, like Michael,
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`M-i-c-h-a-e-l; and I spell Berger, B-e-r-g-e-r.
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` Q. So I'd like to take a look at your
`13
`declaration, if that's okay with you, and in
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`particular could you look at paragraph 18 of
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`your declaration.
`16
` A. Paragraph 18, 1-8?
`17
` Q. Correct, yes.
`18
` A. Yeah.
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` (Exhibit 2045 was entered into the
`20
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` Q. And in that paragraph it says at
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`JLab/Cambridge, Exh. 1036, p. 6
`JLab/Cambridge v. Varta, 2020-01212
`
`

`

`Transcript of Philipp Miehlich
`Conducted on June 7, 2021
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`the beginning, "VARTA commercialized button
`cells covered by the patents under review
`beginning in about 2015 under the CoinPower
`trade name."
` Did I read that correctly?
` A. That is correct, yeah.
` Q. And you don't have any specialized
`background that would qualify you to determine
`that the VARTA commercialized button cells are
`covered by the patents under review, do you?
` A. I need some help for translation
`for this question.
` MS. TEMPESTA: Understood.
` (Question translated.)
` A. (Through Translator) Well, I know
`that all of our coin batteries are only
`manufactured respecting the specifications of
`all of our patents.
` Q. And do you understand that --
` A. Yes.
` Q. Apologies. Were you finished?
`I'm sorry.
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` A. Yes.
`cells to the patent claims. So, for example,
`looking to the words of the patent claim --
` Q. And do you --
` A. Yeah.
` MR. HARTMANN: Well, I'm going to
` Q. -- and then comparing that word
`object to the translation. The witness did not
`for word to what is in the CoinPower cells. And
`limit himself to the specification. This is a
`your view is that you did that here in your
`problem.
`declaration?
` MS. TEMPESTA: Okay, I'm going to
` A. Oh, Jennifer, I was involved in
`object to counsel acting as a translator.
`2009 in these things when we started. I know a
` MR. HARTMANN: I'm not acting as a
`lot of details how we made the CoinPower cell
`translator. I'm just saying that the question
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`and all single parts of our patents are
`was not translated properly.
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`reflected in the real product of the CoinPower.
` THE TRANSLATOR: May the
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` Q. Do you know the difference between
`interpreter hear that word again. I thought he
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`a patent specification and a patent claim?
`said (German word).
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` A. Honest, no. Maybe you explain. I
` (Question translated.)
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`don't know. What is the difference between
` A. (Through Translator) All of our
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`claim and specification?
`coin batteries use the specifications or the
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`descriptions as they are reflected in the
` Q. I can't testify today, sir, but we
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`patents and the features as they are reflected.
`can move to something else. That's fine.
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` So let's just move on to another
` Q. Do you understand that any
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`comparison between the patents and VARTA's
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`paragraph 26?
`CoinPower cells for purposes of the analysis in
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`these proceedings has to be done on a patent
`claim by patent claim basis?
` (Question translated.)
` A. (Through Translator) Yes, I do.
` Q. And did you perform an analysis
`that compares the CoinPower cells to each and
`every element of a particular patent claim
`that's being challenged in these proceedings?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Did you document that analysis?
` A. Yes. It is stated in my
`declaration.
` Q. Can you show us where that is,
`sir?
` A. Yeah. I'm just referring to page
`12 it's starting, yeah. No, page 11. Yeah, 31.
`It's 31.
` It's our jelly roll, it's the
`housing parts, it's our insulator layer what we
`have, it's the flat foil conductor, 32.
` Q. So just for clarity, sir, the
`question was whether you compared the CoinPower
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`JLab/Cambridge, Exh. 1036, p. 7
`JLab/Cambridge v. Varta, 2020-01212
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`Transcript of Philipp Miehlich
`Conducted on June 7, 2021
`25
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`7 (25 to 28)
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`the flavor in case you can realize this idea, so
`it's the idea that we need to realize it, and in
`case this would come, become happening, that is
`a great potential for this OEMs in this times in
`this industry --
` (Reporter clarification.)
` A. Great potential for the original
`equipment manufacturer. OEM is for, OEM
`manufacturers are the manufacturers which are
`doing these devices like, in that time it was
`Motorola, it was OSAI, it was Plantronics, it
`was Sennheiser. They had been doing such
`Bluetooth headset devices, and in case we can
`give them a better way which support more energy
`and parallel make this battery smaller, that
`would be potential to revolutionalize the design
`of products. So that was one of the reasons why
`I supported it.
` Q. Are you receiving any compensation
`from VARTA today in return for providing your
`declarations or testifying here today?
` A. No. I'm still receiving my
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` A. 26, yeah, their request for
`funding to pursue, yeah.
` Q. And this -- yes, sir. If you want
`to take a second and read it, that's totally
`fine.
` A. Yeah, okay.
` Q. And this was a project -- the
`project referred to in this paragraph here is
`one that you supported; is that right?
` A. That is right, yeah.
` Q. And why did you support this
`project?
` A. In this times there was, in my
`opinion after all this, let's say, rates of new
`electronic devices, which was many in this time,
`MP-3 players, and then there was this hands-free
`communication with the Bluetooth devices, where
`you have something sticking in your ear with a
`prolonged area of the microphone, and there was
`the point that something can be innovated and
`made new, made new. But the batteries in this
`time does not allow to make this design of this
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`so-called Bluetooth headset differently. That
`was reflected through the market.
` Then there came an idea how to
`bring more energy into a button cell. Button
`cell was our doings, yes. We had been doing
`button cells I would say 20 years before I
`arrived in VARTA -- no, 40 years before I
`arrived in VARTA, but not in this so-called
`lithium technology.
` So now there was the idea to make
`button cells completely different, not using the
`kind of specular (phonetic) approach but rather
`using a jelly roll and bring the jelly roll, the
`winding roll of electrodes into a button cell.
`That was, I would say, even a crazy idea for a
`lot of people in these times because nobody did
`it before and nobody did it in this kind of
`intention, how to make it.
` So there was of course concerns of
`a lot of people how would you like to do it,
`this is impossible, that is not possible, you
`cannot do this, you cannot do that. But I saw
`
`salary, yes. But that's it. I'm on vacation.
` Q. Let's look to one of the charts
`that's in your declaration. This is at
`paragraph 40 at page 16.
` A. Yeah.
` Q. Do you recognize this chart?
` A. Yes, I recognize this chart.
` Q. Can you explain to us what it is,
`please.
` A. Well, it's simply a comparison
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`looking to this Kobayashi and as you see from
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`with all their bells and whistles what they have
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`done, they claim something like 15 million per
`16
`in energy or energy density. Energy density is
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`a logical consequence of capacity.
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` So, when I compare the Kobayashi,
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`descriptions, it was, if I recall right, it was
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`JLab/Cambridge, Exh. 1036, p. 8
`JLab/Cambridge v. Varta, 2020-01212
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`

`

`Transcript of Philipp Miehlich
`Conducted on June 7, 2021
`29
`and we achieve 15 million per hours or 45 per.
`That is the easy consequence of, let's say, let
`me have three times more the energy density than
`this Kobayashi.
` Q. So did you compare this chart?
` A. Yes.
` Q. And where did you obtain the
`numbers that you used for the VARTA CP1254
`product?
` A. Out of our, all of our files what
`we have been doing in 2009, because that's
`already 12 years ago now, right, and you have to
`look what was it at that time. But I recall
`this also from my memory that was, the very
`initial capacity was 40 million which was --
` (Reporter clarification.)
` Q. 4-0 million per hour with some
`handmade samples and when we moved to
`commercialized and introduced it to customers,
`it was 50 million per hours. In that size,
`1254.
` Q. What kinds of files did you look
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` Q. This paragraph says, "The increase
`in production and sales over the past six years
`is due solely to the performance characteristics
`of the patented CoinPower cell, which is brought
`about by the unique utilization of a jelly roll
`electrode with its supporting structures, as set
`forth in the claims of the four patents here
`under review."
` Did I read that correctly?
` A. That is correct.
` Q. With respect to your statement
`that the increase in production and sales over
`the past six years is due solely to the
`performance characteristics of the patented
`CoinPower cell, wouldn't you agree that there
`are other reasons why the sales increased?
` A. No.
` Q. Okay. What about, don't you think
`it was benefiting from the shift in technology
`away from cylindrical battery cells to coin
`format batteries?
` A. No. No, no, no.
`
`8 (29 to 32)
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` Q. Okay. Why don't you take a --
`sorry, go ahead.
` MR. HARTMANN: Philipp, wait for a
`question. I'm going to object. Wait for a
`question, Philipp.
` THE WITNESS: Yeah.
` MS. TEMPESTA: I think he was
`still answering. I ask that you not interrupt
`the witness, sir.
` Q. Let's look at Exhibit 1032, which
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`is an article entitled "Smaller Rechargeable
`11
`Lithium-Ion Button Cells for Wearables," and
`12
`this is from ElectronicsWeekly.com.
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` (Exhibit 1032 entered into the
`14
`record at this time.)
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` MR. HARTMANN: Do you have a copy
`16
`of that?
`17
` THE WITNESS: No, I don't have.
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` MR. HARTMANN: I think we printed
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`one out. Whoever has a copy, would you give a
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` THE WITNESS: I just got it.
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`at in connection with that inquiry, you said
`some files were reviewed?
` A. Our presentations, our data
`sheets.
` Q. Okay. And then what, with respect
`to the VARTA CP1254 from 2018, where did you
`obtain the data to prepare that portion of the
`chart?
` A. Also our data sheets.
` MS. TEMPESTA: Counsel, we'd just
`like to request production of the underlying
`data that was used in preparing this chart.
` THE WITNESS: Sorry?
` MR. HARTMANN: Philipp, wait, this
`is to me. We'll take it under advisement.
` MS. TEMPESTA: Thank you.
` MR. HARTMANN: We'll deal with it.
` MS. TEMPESTA: Okay.
` Q. All right. And then if we could
`look at paragraph 58 of your declaration.
`That's on page 25.
` A. I've got it.
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`JLab/Cambridge, Exh. 1036, p. 9
`JLab/Cambridge v. Varta, 2020-01212
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`9 (33 to 36)
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`Transcript of Philipp Miehlich
`Conducted on June 7, 2021
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` MR. HARTMANN: Is there a
`translation of that document available for the
`witness?
` THE WITNESS: Give me a moment.
`"Smaller Rechargeable Lithium Button Cells for
`Wearables." I have it in from of me.
` "Varta has added three smaller
`button cells to its CoinPower" --
` MR. HARTMANN: Philipp, I don't
`think the question is to read it loud.
` I want to know whether a
`translation is available for the witness?
` MS. TEMPESTA: There is not.
` MR. HARTMANN: There is not, okay.
` MS. TEMPESTA: This includes an
`English quotation from the witness. It looks
`like he made the statement in English. So if he
`could read it in English, that'd be great. If
`not, we can have it translated.
` THE WITNESS: Are you talking to
`me?
` MS. TEMPESTA: No, sir. Sorry. I
`
`which is a totally different one, look. The
`point maybe in the context when I said this was
`there is a company using cylindrical cells, also
`lithium rechargeable cylindrical cells, also for
`these true wireless stereo. But also this
`company realize that even, even their best
`cylindrical cells what they are using, yes, has
`not the energy density by far than a CoinPower
`cell, and that was the reason why this company
`change from the cylindrical to a button cell for
`that very purpose application.
` So, that is the main point for
`this.
` Q. And do you believe that you were
`quoted correctly in this article?
` A. Yes, in this context. What I
`said, I think, yes, that is right, yes.
` Q. Okay.
` A. But I can --
` Q. Apologies. Go ahead.
` A. This is referring to one customer
`and I'm not sure whether I'm allowed to publish
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`was talking to Mr. Hartmann. But if you could
`take a moment to review this and let us know if
`you recognize