· · · · · · · · · · · · · VOLUME 1
`· · · · · · · · · · · · · PAGES:· 1-305
`· · · · · · · · · · · · · EXHIBITS:· See Index
`
`1
`
`UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`· · · · · · _________________
`
`BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`· · · · · · _________________
`
`· · · · · · · · YITA LLC,
`· · · · · · · ·Petitioner,
`
`· · · · · · · · · ·v.
`
`· · · · · · ·MACNEIL IP LLC,
`· · · · · · · Patent Owner.
`
`· · · · · ·_________________
`
`· · · · · ·Case IPR2020-01139
`· · · · · · Patent 8,382,186
`
`· · · · · · · · · ·and
`
`· · · · · ·Case IPR2020-01142
`· · · · · · Patent 8,833,834
`________________________________________
`
`·VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION of MARK STRACHAN
`· · - CONDUCTED BY VIDEOCONFERENCE -
`· · · Wednesday, September 8, 2021
`· · ·9:09 a.m. Central Daylight Time
`
`· · · · Michelle Keegan, RMR, CRR
`· · · · · · · · ·Lexitas
`· · 508-478-9795 ~ 508-478.0595 (Fax)
`· · · · · www.LexitasLegal.com
`
`MacNeil Exhibit 2183
`Yita v. MacNeil IP, IPR2020-01139, Page 1
`
`
`· · · · · · · · · · · · · PAGES:· 1-305
`· · · · · · · · · · · · · EXHIBITS:· See Index
`
`1
`
`UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`· · · · · · _________________
`
`BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`· · · · · · _________________
`
`· · · · · · · · YITA LLC,
`· · · · · · · ·Petitioner,
`
`· · · · · · · · · ·v.
`
`· · · · · · ·MACNEIL IP LLC,
`· · · · · · · Patent Owner.
`
`· · · · · ·_________________
`
`· · · · · ·Case IPR2020-01139
`· · · · · · Patent 8,382,186
`
`· · · · · · · · · ·and
`
`· · · · · ·Case IPR2020-01142
`· · · · · · Patent 8,833,834
`________________________________________
`
`·VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION of MARK STRACHAN
`· · - CONDUCTED BY VIDEOCONFERENCE -
`· · · Wednesday, September 8, 2021
`· · ·9:09 a.m. Central Daylight Time
`
`· · · · Michelle Keegan, RMR, CRR
`· · · · · · · · ·Lexitas
`· · 508-478-9795 ~ 508-478.0595 (Fax)
`· · · · · www.LexitasLegal.com
`
`MacNeil Exhibit 2183
`Yita v. MacNeil IP, IPR2020-01139, Page 1
`
`
`
`A P P E A R A N C E S:
`
`2
`
`· STERNE, KESSLER, GOLDSTEIN & FOX P.L.L.C.
`· By:· Jason A. Fitzsimmons, Esq.
`· 1100 New York Avenue, N.W., Suite 600
`· Washington, D.C. 20005
`· Phone:· (202) 371-2600
`· Email:· jfitzsimmons@sternekessler.com
`· Counsel for Petitioner
`
`· BAKER BOTTS L.L.P.
`· By:· Clarke Stavinoha, Esq.
`· 2001 Ross Avenue, Suite 900
`· Dallas, Texas 75201-2980
`· Phone:· (214) 953-6500
`· Email:· clarke.stavinoha@bakerbotts.com
`· Counsel for Patent Owner
`
`· PERKINS IP LAW GROUP LLC
`· By:· Jefferson Perkins, Esq.
`· 4200 Commerce Court, Suite 310
`· Lisle, Illinois 60532
`· Phone:· (630) 505-1305
`· Email:· jperkins@perkinsip.com
`· Counsel for Patent Owner
`
`Also Present:
`· Juan Torres, Videographer
`· James Throne
`
`MacNeil Exhibit 2183
`Yita v. MacNeil IP, IPR2020-01139, Page 2
`
`
`
`· · · · · · · · · · I N D E X
`
`3
`
`Videotaped Deposition of:· · · · · · · · · · ·Page
`
`MARK STRACHAN
`
`· ·By Mr. Stavinoha· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 8
`
`· ·By Mr. Fitzsimmons· · · · · · · · · · · · · 298
`
`· · · · · · · · · E X H I B I T S
`
`Case -01339· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·Page
`
`Exhibit 2117· Page images from book· · · · · · 125
`· · · · · · · "Materials Science of
`· · · · · · · Polymers for Engineers," 324
`· · · · · · · pages without Bates numbering
`
`Exhibit 2144· Article, "Crystallization and· · 129
`· · · · · · · hardening of
`· · · · · · · poly(ethylene-co-vinyl
`· · · · · · · acetate) mouthguards during
`· · · · · · · routine use," from
`· · · · · · · "Scientific Reports," 9 pages
`· · · · · · · without Bates numbering
`
`Exhibit 2145· Paper, "Crosslinked· · · · · · · 138
`· · · · · · · polyethylene," from "Indian
`· · · · · · · Journal of Chemical
`· · · · · · · Technology," 12 pages without
`· · · · · · · Bates numbering
`
`Exhibit 2146· Drawings, 5 pages without· · · · 183
`· · · · · · · Bates numbering
`
`MacNeil Exhibit 2183
`Yita v. MacNeil IP, IPR2020-01139, Page 3
`
`
`
`· · · · · · · ·EXHIBITS (continued)
`
`4
`
`Exhibit 2148· Paper, "Biodegradation of· · · · 166
`· · · · · · · Natural Rubber and Related
`· · · · · · · Compounds: Recent Insights
`· · · · · · · into a Hardly Understood
`· · · · · · · Catabolic Capability of
`· · · · · · · Microorganisms," from
`· · · · · · · "Applied and Environmental
`· · · · · · · Microbiology," 10 pages
`· · · · · · · without Bates numbering
`
`Exhibit 2150· United States Patent· · · · · · ·168
`· · · · · · · 4,367,732, seven pages
`· · · · · · · without Bates numbering
`
`Exhibit 2152· Paper, "Thermoforming of· · · · ·241
`· · · · · · · HDPE," from "Conference Paper
`· · · · · · · in AIP Conference Proceedings
`· · · · · · · - October 2017," eight pages
`· · · · · · · without Bates numbering
`
`Exhibit 2153· Page images from book,· · · · · ·258
`· · · · · · · "Practical Thermoforming
`· · · · · · · Principles and Applications,
`· · · · · · · Second Edition, Revised and
`· · · · · · · Expanded," 69 pages without
`· · · · · · · Bates numbering
`
`Exhibit 2154· Page images from book,· · · · · ·280
`· · · · · · · "Understanding Plastics
`· · · · · · · Recycling," 38 pages without
`· · · · · · · Bates numbering
`
`Exhibit 2155· Journal article, "Mechanical· · ·293
`· · · · · · · Recycling of Packaging
`· · · · · · · Plastics: A Review," from
`· · · · · · · "Macromolecular Rapid
`· · · · · · · Communications," 27 pages
`· · · · · · · without Bates numbering
`
`MacNeil Exhibit 2183
`Yita v. MacNeil IP, IPR2020-01139, Page 4
`
`
`
`· · · · · · · ·EXHIBITS (continued)
`
`5
`
`Exhibit 2156· United States Patent· · · · · · ·267
`· · · · · · · Application Publication, Pub.
`· · · · · · · No.: US 2004/0261297 A1, 37
`· · · · · · · pages without Bates numbering
`
`Exhibit 2158· United States Patent· · · · · · ·270
`· · · · · · · Application Publication, Pub.
`· · · · · · · No.: US 2016/0219973 A1, 23
`· · · · · · · pages without Bates numbering
`
`Case -01142· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·Page
`
`Exhibit 2117· Page images from book· · · · · · 125
`· · · · · · · "Materials Science of
`· · · · · · · Polymers for Engineers," 324
`· · · · · · · pages without Bates numbering
`
`Exhibit 2144· Article, "Crystallization and· · 129
`· · · · · · · hardening of
`· · · · · · · poly(ethylene-co-vinyl
`· · · · · · · acetate) mouthguards during
`· · · · · · · routine use," from
`· · · · · · · "Scientific Reports," 9 pages
`· · · · · · · without Bates numbering
`
`Exhibit 2145· Paper, "Crosslinked· · · · · · · 138
`· · · · · · · polyethylene," from "Indian
`· · · · · · · Journal of Chemical
`· · · · · · · Technology," 12 pages without
`· · · · · · · Bates numbering
`
`Exhibit 2146· Drawings, 5 pages without· · · · 183
`· · · · · · · Bates numbering
`
`MacNeil Exhibit 2183
`Yita v. MacNeil IP, IPR2020-01139, Page 5
`
`
`
`· · · · · · · ·EXHIBITS (continued)
`
`6
`
`Exhibit 2148· Paper, "Biodegradation of· · · · 166
`· · · · · · · Natural Rubber and Related
`· · · · · · · Compounds: Recent Insights
`· · · · · · · into a Hardly Understood
`· · · · · · · Catabolic Capability of
`· · · · · · · Microorganisms," from
`· · · · · · · "Applied and Environmental
`· · · · · · · Microbiology," 10 pages
`· · · · · · · without Bates numbering
`
`Exhibit 2150· United States Patent· · · · · · ·168
`· · · · · · · 4,367,732, seven pages
`· · · · · · · without Bates numbering
`
`Exhibit 2152· Paper, "Thermoforming of· · · · ·241
`· · · · · · · HDPE," from "Conference Paper
`· · · · · · · in AIP Conference Proceedings
`· · · · · · · - October 2017," eight pages
`· · · · · · · without Bates numbering
`
`Exhibit 2153· Page images from book,· · · · · ·258
`· · · · · · · "Practical Thermoforming
`· · · · · · · Principles and Applications,
`· · · · · · · Second Edition, Revised and
`· · · · · · · Expanded," 69 pages without
`· · · · · · · Bates numbering
`
`Exhibit 2154· Page images from book,· · · · · ·280
`· · · · · · · "Understanding Plastics
`· · · · · · · Recycling," 38 pages without
`· · · · · · · Bates numbering
`
`Exhibit 2155· Journal article, "Mechanical· · ·293
`· · · · · · · Recycling of Packaging
`· · · · · · · Plastics: A Review," from
`· · · · · · · "Macromolecular Rapid
`· · · · · · · Communications," 27 pages
`· · · · · · · without Bates numbering
`
`MacNeil Exhibit 2183
`Yita v. MacNeil IP, IPR2020-01139, Page 6
`
`
`
`· · · · · · · ·EXHIBITS (continued)
`
`7
`
`Exhibit 2156· United States Patent· · · · · · ·267
`· · · · · · · Application Publication, Pub.
`· · · · · · · No.: US 2004/0261297 A1, 37
`· · · · · · · pages without Bates numbering
`
`Exhibit 2158· United States Patent· · · · · · ·270
`· · · · · · · Application Publication, Pub.
`· · · · · · · No.: US 2016/0219973 A1, 23
`· · · · · · · pages without Bates numbering
`
`· · · · · · PREVIOUSLY MARKED EXHIBITS
`
`Exhibit 1005· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·150
`
`Exhibit 1006· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·191
`
`Exhibit 1008· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·155
`
`Exhibit 1009· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 51
`
`Exhibit 1041· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·179
`
`Exhibit 1042· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 17
`
`Exhibit 1054· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 79
`
`Exhibit 1056· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·153
`
`Exhibit 1067· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·228
`
`Exhibit 1069· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·156
`
`Exhibit 2012· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·196
`
`Exhibit 2137· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·197
`
`MacNeil Exhibit 2183
`Yita v. MacNeil IP, IPR2020-01139, Page 7
`
`
`
`· · · · · · · P R O C E E D I N G S
`
`· · · ·THE VIDEOGRAPHER:· We are on the record on
`
`September 8th, 2021, at approximately 9:09 a.m.
`
`Central Time, for the remote video deposition of
`
`8
`
`Mr. Mark Strachan.
`
`· · · ·My name is Juan Torres, and I am the
`
`videographer and document tech on behalf of
`
`Lexitas.
`
`· · · ·All appearances will be noted on the
`
`stenographic record.
`
`· · · ·Will the court reporter please swear in
`
`the witness.
`
`· · · · · · · · · MARK STRACHAN,
`
`having been satisfactorily identified and duly
`
`sworn by the Notary Public, was examined and
`
`testified as follows:
`
`· · · EXAMINATION BY COUNSEL FOR PATENT OWNER
`
`BY MR. STAVINOHA:
`
`· · Q. Good morning.
`
`· · A. Good morning.
`
`· · Q. Could you please state your full name for
`
`the record.
`
`MacNeil Exhibit 2183
`Yita v. MacNeil IP, IPR2020-01139, Page 8
`
`
`
`9
`
`· · A. Mark Strachan.
`
`· · Q. And, Mr. Strachan, where do you reside?
`
`· · A. I reside in Royal Palm Beach, Florida.
`
`· · Q. And what is your residence address?
`
`· · A. 2926 East Fontana Court, Royal Palm Beach,
`
`Florida 33411.
`
`· · Q. Mr. Strachan, have you ever been deposed
`
`before?
`
`· · A. Yes, I have.
`
`· · Q. How many times?
`
`· · A. Three times.
`
`· · Q. Three times.· And were any of those in
`
`connection with a patent proceeding?
`
`· · A. Yeah, they were.· Two of them were patent
`
`infringements, and one was an accident related.
`
`· · Q. Okay.· And the two patent infringement
`
`cases, what technology did those cases concern?
`
`· · A. The first one included a patent
`
`infringement of a tamper-evident plastic packaging
`
`tray, which was infringed.
`
`· · · ·And the second one was the -- sorry.· My
`
`memory now, it was an infringement of materials,
`
`MacNeil Exhibit 2183
`Yita v. MacNeil IP, IPR2020-01139, Page 9
`
`
`
`usage of materials for a particular product, also
`
`10
`
`in the packaging industry.
`
`· · · ·And then the third one was an injury on an
`
`extrusion system where the gentleman lost his
`
`hand.
`
`· · Q. Okay.· And for the first case that you
`
`mentioned that involved infringement of a
`
`tamper-evident plastic packaging tray, what was
`
`your role in that case?
`
`· · A. I was the expert witness for the defense.
`
`Yeah.· Basically, I was there as an expert witness
`
`to verify that, in fact, the patent was -- that
`
`the patent was valid and that the -- there was no
`
`prior art and that the plaintiff had no right to
`
`manufacture that product.
`
`· · Q. So in that first case you were offering
`
`opinions that the patent was valid.· Is that
`
`correct?
`
`· · A. That's correct.· Yes.
`
`· · Q. And for the second case that involved
`
`usage of materials for a particular product in the
`
`packaging industry, what was that product?
`
`MacNeil Exhibit 2183
`Yita v. MacNeil IP, IPR2020-01139, Page 10
`
`
`
`11
`
`· · A. It was a product for the perfume industry
`
`where they had a barrier to different perfumes,
`
`the barrier to enable that perfume to keep its
`
`value or its smell over time.
`
`· · Q. And in that case, were you offering expert
`
`testimony on behalf of the patent owner or the
`
`accused infringer?
`
`· · A. On the patent owner at the time.· Yes.· At
`
`the time it was the patent owner.
`
`· · Q. Okay.· So I understand you've been deposed
`
`before, but I'd just like to go over some of the
`
`basic ground rules before we get started just to
`
`make sure we're on the same page.
`
`· · · ·So do you understand that I'm going to be
`
`asking you a series of questions today during this
`
`deposition?
`
`· · A. Yes, I do.
`
`· · Q. Do you understand that you took an oath to
`
`tell the truth?
`
`· · A. Yes, I do understand.
`
`· · Q. Are you under the influence of any
`
`medication today?
`
`MacNeil Exhibit 2183
`Yita v. MacNeil IP, IPR2020-01139, Page 11
`
`
`
`12
`
`· · A. No, I'm not.
`
`· · Q. Is there any other reason why you would
`
`not be able to fully, accurately, and honestly
`
`answer my questions today?
`
`· · A. No, there's no other reason.· There's no
`
`reason for that.
`
`· · Q. So do you understand that there's a court
`
`reporter who is typing up the questions I'm asking
`
`and the answers you're giving?
`
`· · A. I do understand.
`
`· · Q. So since the court reporter can only type
`
`up one person talking at a time, can you please
`
`try and wait until I finish my questions before
`
`you answer?
`
`· · A. I will do that.
`
`· · Q. Great.· Thank you.· And please also be
`
`sure to answer questions verbally and not with a
`
`nod or a grunt or anything like that.
`
`· · A. I'll do that.
`
`· · Q. Now, counsel for petitioner may object to
`
`questions I ask from time to time; but unless
`
`you're instructed specifically not to answer,
`
`MacNeil Exhibit 2183
`Yita v. MacNeil IP, IPR2020-01139, Page 12
`
`
`
`you'll still need to answer the question.· Do you
`
`13
`
`understand?
`
`· · A. I do understand.
`
`· · Q. And if you don't understand any of my
`
`questions, please let me know.· Otherwise, I'll
`
`assume that you understood the question.· Does
`
`that sound good?
`
`· · A. That does sound good.
`
`· · Q. All right.· And I'll try to take a break
`
`every hour or so.· But if you need one before
`
`then, just let me know.· The only thing I'll ask
`
`is if there's a question pending, I'd like you to
`
`answer that question before we take a break.
`
`· · A. Understood.
`
`· · Q. Where are you located today, Mr. Strachan?
`
`· · A. I'm located at my home in Royal Palm
`
`Beach.
`
`· · Q. Are you alone in the room?
`
`· · A. Yes.· I'm alone in the house.
`
`· · Q. And what equipment are you using for the
`
`deposition today?
`
`· · A. I'm using my desktop computer.
`
`MacNeil Exhibit 2183
`Yita v. MacNeil IP, IPR2020-01139, Page 13
`
`
`
`14
`
`· · Q. Do you have a phone with you in the room?
`
`· · A. I do.· My phone is turned off.
`
`· · Q. Great.· And do you agree not to use that
`
`phone during the questioning today for any reason?
`
`· · A. I do agree.
`
`· · Q. Do you have hard copies of any documents
`
`in front of you?
`
`· · A. Yes, I do.
`
`· · Q. And what documents are those?
`
`· · A. I have my declaration.· I have a hard copy
`
`of Yung, Rabbe, both version, and then -- Rabbe.
`
`And then I have -- to my left, I have a list of
`
`materials that are considered as my table for
`
`reference to exhibits.· And then also a table of
`
`contents for my declaration.
`
`· · Q. Anything else?
`
`· · A. That's all I have in front of me.
`
`· · Q. And are those clean copies?
`
`· · A. Yes, these are clean copies.
`
`· · Q. So there's no notes or anything else on
`
`them?
`
`· · A. Absolutely no notes.· Clean printed
`
`MacNeil Exhibit 2183
`Yita v. MacNeil IP, IPR2020-01139, Page 14
`
`
`
`copies.
`
`· · Q. So I understand that you've provided
`
`testimony in connection with two IPR proceedings.
`
`15
`
`Is that correct?
`
`· · A. That's correct.
`
`· · Q. The first is IPR2020-01139, which relates
`
`to U.S. Patent Number 8,382,186.· Is that correct?
`
`· · A. Yeah.· I don't fully recall the numbers
`
`and all right now.· You'd have to remind me what
`
`each of those were.· But I have been in two
`
`places.· Yes.
`
`· · Q. So if I refer to the "1139 proceeding,"
`
`you'll understand that I'm referring to
`
`IPR2020-01139?
`
`· · A. I don't remember the particulars of each
`
`of those cases or the numbers just on the numbers
`
`alone.
`
`· · Q. Do you have a copy of your declaration in
`
`front of you?
`
`· · A. Yes, I do.
`
`· · Q. Would you turn to that.· Could you turn to
`
`page 2 of your declaration, the table of contents.
`
`MacNeil Exhibit 2183
`Yita v. MacNeil IP, IPR2020-01139, Page 15
`
`
`
`· · A. Okay.· Yes.
`
`· · Q. Okay.· So you see the numbers at the top
`
`16
`
`of the page, in the top-right corner,
`
`IPR2020-01139 and IPR2020-01142?
`
`· · A. Yes, I do.
`
`· · Q. Okay.· Does that refresh your recollection
`
`as far as the proceeding numbers?
`
`· · A. Yes, I do.
`
`· · · ·I was thinking that you were referring to
`
`a past case that I did.· I apologize for that.
`
`· · Q. So I'll just ask again.· If I refer to the
`
`"1139 proceeding," you'll understand that I'm
`
`referring to IPR2020-01139?
`
`· · A. Yes, I understand.
`
`· · Q. And if I refer to the "'186 patent,"
`
`you'll understand that I'm referring to U.S.
`
`Patent Number 8,382,186?
`
`· · A. That's correct.
`
`· · Q. So the second proceeding is IPR2020-01142,
`
`which relates to U.S. Patent Number 8,833,834.· Is
`
`that correct?
`
`· · A. Yes, that's correct.
`
`MacNeil Exhibit 2183
`Yita v. MacNeil IP, IPR2020-01139, Page 16
`
`
`
`· · Q. So if I refer to the "1142 proceeding,"
`
`you'll understand that I'm referring to
`
`17
`
`IPR2020-01142?
`
`· · A. Yes.
`
`· · Q. And if I refer to the "'834 patent,"
`
`you'll understand that I'm referring to U.S.
`
`Patent Number 8,833,834?
`
`· · A. Yes.
`
`· · · ·MR. STAVINOHA:· So can we pull up
`
`Exhibit 1042 from IPR2020-01139.
`
`· · A. Exhibit 1042?
`
`· · Q. I'm going to have the technician pull it
`
`up on the screen here.
`
`· · · ·(Previously marked Exhibit 1042)
`
`· · A. I do so see it.· It's kind of small, but I
`
`do see it.· I'll try and make this bigger.
`
`· · Q. Mr. Strachan, do you recognize this
`
`document?
`
`· · A. Yes, I do recognize the document.
`
`· · Q. This is the declaration that you submitted
`
`in IPR2020-01139.· Correct?
`
`· · A. The document that I submitted?
`
`MacNeil Exhibit 2183
`Yita v. MacNeil IP, IPR2020-01139, Page 17
`
`
`
`18
`
`· · Q. This is a copy of your declaration that
`
`was submitted in IPR2020-01139.· Correct?
`
`· · A. Okay, okay.· Correct.
`
`· · Q. If you look on the screen, it says,
`
`"Petition for Inter Partes Review."
`
`· · · ·I'm not sure this is the right document
`
`that's on the screen.
`
`· · · ·MR. STAVINOHA:· Juan, can we --
`
`· · A. It's smaller now.· I see "Inter Partes
`
`Review," as mentioned.· That's not the document in
`
`question.
`
`· · · ·MR. STAVINOHA:· Juan, can we pull up
`
`Exhibit 1042 from the 1139 proceeding.
`
`· · · ·THE WITNESS:· Is there any way you can
`
`make that document a little bigger or is it just
`
`my side?
`
`· · · ·Here we go.
`
`· · A. I do recognize that document.· It's very
`
`small on my screen, but I will endeavor to -- here
`
`we go.· I managed to make it bigger.
`
`· · Q. Okay.· Great.· So the document on the
`
`screen here is the declaration that you submitted
`
`MacNeil Exhibit 2183
`Yita v. MacNeil IP, IPR2020-01139, Page 18
`
`
`
`19
`
`in IPR2020-01139.· Correct?
`
`· · A. That's correct.
`
`· · Q. And if we could go to page 71 of the PDF,
`
`please.· Mr. Strachan, is this your signature?
`
`· · A. That is my signature.
`
`· · Q. Are you aware of any statements in your
`
`declaration for the 1139 proceeding that required
`
`correction?
`
`· · A. There's no statements of mine, that I'm
`
`aware of, that required correction.
`
`· · · ·MR. STAVINOHA:· Juan, can we pull up
`
`Exhibit 1042 from IPR2020-01142.
`
`· · Q. Mr. Strachan, do you recognize this
`
`document?
`
`· · A. Yes, I recognize this document.
`
`· · Q. This is the declaration that you submitted
`
`in IPR2020-01142.· Correct?
`
`· · A. That is correct.
`
`· · Q. And if we could go to page 71 of the PDF,
`
`Mr. Strachan, is this your signature?
`
`· · A. That's correct.
`
`· · Q. Are you aware of any statements in your
`
`MacNeil Exhibit 2183
`Yita v. MacNeil IP, IPR2020-01139, Page 19
`
`
`
`declaration to the 1142 proceeding that require
`
`20
`
`correction?
`
`· · A. I'm not aware of any that required
`
`correction.
`
`· · Q. Other than the cover page, are there any
`
`differences between the declarations you submitted
`
`in IPR2020-01139 and IPR2020-01142?
`
`· · A. I don't recall there being any
`
`differences.
`
`· · Q. Okay.
`
`· · · ·MR. STAVINOHA:· So, Jason, can we
`
`stipulate that Mr. Strachan's testimony with
`
`respect to the 1139 declaration is also applicable
`
`to the 1142 proceeding?
`
`· · · ·MR. FITZSIMMONS:· Yes, that's fine.
`
`· · · ·MR. STAVINOHA:· Okay.· Juan, if we could
`
`please pull up Exhibit 1042 from the 1139 IPR.
`
`It's the one that we just looked at.· And let's go
`
`to PDF page 4, please.
`
`· · Q. Mr. Strachan, this list sets forth the
`
`materials you considered in forming your opinions
`
`expressed in your declaration.· Correct?
`
`MacNeil Exhibit 2183
`Yita v. MacNeil IP, IPR2020-01139, Page 20
`
`
`
`21
`
`· · A. Yes, that's correct.
`
`· · Q. Does this table accurately reflect the
`
`materials you considered in preparing your
`
`declaration?
`
`· · A. Yes, it does accurately reflect that.
`
`· · Q. You didn't consider anything else other
`
`than the materials listed in this table?
`
`· · · ·MR. FITZSIMMONS:· Objection to form.
`
`· · A. No.· I've listed all that I've considered.
`
`· · Q. Who participated in creating your
`
`declaration?
`
`· · A. Jason Fitzsimmons and Steve Merrill spent
`
`four or five hours with me and then prepared a
`
`rough draft for me.· I then completed that and put
`
`in the information that I needed to do.
`
`· · · ·And everything that I've put in my
`
`declaration is my opinion, and I stand by that.
`
`· · Q. Okay.· So you met with Jason and Steve and
`
`then they prepared a rough draft of your
`
`declaration.· Is that correct?
`
`· · A. A template.· Just a template that I can
`
`work to so that I could then have a good format to
`
`MacNeil Exhibit 2183
`Yita v. MacNeil IP, IPR2020-01139, Page 21
`
`
`
`22
`
`follow, which is what I prefer to do when I'm
`
`doing reports and declarations.
`
`· · Q. Did any other lawyers participate in the
`
`creation of your declaration?
`
`· · A. No.· I spent time with Jason and Steve.
`
`· · Q. Did you type your declaration?
`
`· · A. I typed most of my declaration.· For the
`
`template, I just filled in what was needed for all
`
`my opinions.· They were all typed by myself.· And
`
`then I submitted that copy.
`
`· · Q. Did you carefully check every citation to
`
`be sure the citations were accurate?
`
`· · · ·MR. FITZSIMMONS:· Objection to form.
`
`· · A. I believe I did.· I did my best to do so.
`
`· · Q. And did you carefully check every
`
`quotation in your declaration to be sure the
`
`quotations were accurate?
`
`· · · ·MR. FITZSIMMONS:· Objection, form.
`
`· · A. I do believe that I did that.· I reviewed
`
`it several times myself.
`
`· · Q. Mr. Strachan, what did you do to prepare
`
`for today's deposition?
`
`MacNeil Exhibit 2183
`Yita v. MacNeil IP, IPR2020-01139, Page 22
`
`
`
`23
`
`· · A. To prepare for today's deposition, I
`
`thoroughly read through my declaration, all the --
`
`Yung and the Rabbe and all the other -- the other
`
`list of materials that I've listed in the exhibits
`
`on my "List of materials considered."· I pretty
`
`much went through as much material as I could to
`
`refresh my memory.
`
`· · Q. Did you do anything else?
`
`· · A. No, I didn't.· I don't recall doing
`
`anything else other than that.
`
`· · Q. Did you meet with anyone before today's
`
`deposition to prepare for today's depo?
`
`· · A. No.· Basically, it was one meeting with
`
`Steve and Jason to just help me to understand what
`
`the proceedings -- what I needed to do, what I
`
`needed to do on my computer, what I could not
`
`have, what I could have.· Just basically the
`
`semantics.
`
`· · Q. And when did you have that meeting with
`
`Steve and Jason?
`
`· · A. Yesterday.
`
`· · Q. Yesterday.· Okay.· Mr. Strachan, in your
`
`MacNeil Exhibit 2183
`Yita v. MacNeil IP, IPR2020-01139, Page 23
`
`
`
`24
`
`declaration you stated that you were being
`
`compensated for your work on the IPRs.· Is that
`
`correct?
`
`· · A. Yes, I'm being compensated.
`
`· · Q. And are you being compensated at an hourly
`
`rate?
`
`· · A. Yes.· Specifically now during this COVID
`
`era, because I'm not present at the law office,
`
`it's an hourly rate.
`
`· · Q. And what is the hourly rate that you're
`
`charging for your work in these proceedings?
`
`· · A. In this particular case, my hourly rate
`
`was $650, I think.
`
`· · · ·Let me look just to make 100 percent sure
`
`again.
`
`· · · ·Could you direct -- oh, there it is.· 695
`
`per hour.· My rates range anywhere between 600 to
`
`700 depending on my -- on what project I'm doing.
`
`· · Q. Okay.· How do you determine the rate to
`
`charge in that $600 to $700 range?
`
`· · A. Well, in my experience now, 18 years as a
`
`consultant, I'm one of -- there's not many
`
`MacNeil Exhibit 2183
`Yita v. MacNeil IP, IPR2020-01139, Page 24
`
`
`
`consultants, hands-on technical consultants like
`
`25
`
`myself out there.
`
`· · · ·And over time -- I started off with a
`
`lower rate when I was -- first got into the
`
`industry.· And as I went along, I started
`
`demanding a higher figure.· And I had no
`
`resistance to that.· And I've now settled on a
`
`figure of typically around $700 an hour.· So
`
`that's how I got to that.
`
`· · Q. Are you receiving any compensation other
`
`than hourly compensation?
`
`· · A. No, no other compensation other than
`
`hourly.· If I was in court, then I would have a
`
`different rate.· Physically in court.
`
`· · Q. And what would the rate be?· What would
`
`your rate be if you were in court?
`
`· · A. Well, my rate in court would be typically
`
`around $5,000 a day.
`
`· · Q. Okay.· How much have you billed on the
`
`cases so far?
`
`· · A. How much exactly, a figure?
`
`· · Q. If you know the exact figure.
`
`MacNeil Exhibit 2183
`Yita v. MacNeil IP, IPR2020-01139, Page 25
`
`
`
`26
`
`· · A. Yeah.· It's approximately around 15,000.
`
`· · Q. And how many hours have you spent on the
`
`IPRs so far?
`
`· · A. I'll have to think on that.· I don't have
`
`my documentation in front of me.· But I would say,
`
`if I calculate that, it's around -- I've spent
`
`20 -- about 20 hours constantly on it.
`
`· · · ·I didn't always bill for every bit on it
`
`because I felt I had to read things multiple times
`
`because -- so it would soak in.· I didn't charge
`
`for the time I might have read something two or
`
`three times over.
`
`· · Q. Okay.· What do you mean by "20 hours
`
`constantly"?
`
`· · A. That's a mistake.· Not "constantly."· Of
`
`course, I had to take breaks.· But whatever
`
`opportunity I have, because I'm a very busy
`
`consultant in the industry.
`
`· · · ·So when I was on a plane or when I was at
`
`home, or whatever time I could get, I would
`
`allocate to reading all the materials in order to
`
`prepare my declaration.
`
`MacNeil Exhibit 2183
`Yita v. MacNeil IP, IPR2020-01139, Page 26
`
`
`
`· · · ·So between the reading work and the actual
`
`preparing of the declaration, sporadic hours here
`
`27
`
`and there.
`
`· · Q. Did you have any assistants or employees
`
`to help you with your work on the IPRs?
`
`· · A. No.· I wish I did, but I don't.· I'm just
`
`the only, sole person in my company.
`
`· · Q. Have you ever been an expert for the law
`
`firm Sterne Kessler that is representing Yita LLC
`
`in these IPRs?
`
`· · A. I am only right now.· Nothing prior to
`
`that.
`
`· · Q. Have you ever been an expert for Yita LLC
`
`before?
`
`· · A. No.
`
`· · Q. Have you ever done any consulting for
`
`Yita LLC?
`
`· · A. No.
`
`· · Q. What opinions were you asked to give in
`
`these IPRs?
`
`· · · ·MR. FITZSIMMONS:· I'd just object to the
`
`extent that would reveal any privileged
`
`MacNeil Exhibit 2183
`Yita v. MacNeil IP, IPR2020-01139, Page 27
`
`
`
`28
`
`communications.
`
`· · · ·And I would instruct the witness not to
`
`answer that.
`
`· · Q. Mr. Strachan, are you able to answer that
`
`question without revealing any privileged
`
`communications?
`
`· · A. I've been instructed not to answer, so I
`
`prefer not to answer.
`
`· · Q. Have you rendered any opinions unfavorable
`
`to Yita LLC in this case?
`
`· · A. No, I've not rendered any unfavorable to
`
`Yita.
`
`· · Q. Did you talk with any other experts before
`
`forming your opinions in your declaration?
`
`· · A. No, I did not.
`
`· · Q. Mr. Strachan, what do you consider
`
`yourself to be an expert in?
`
`· · A. Well, I've been an expert in anything from
`
`plastics extrusion from the pellet, all the way
`
`through a manufacturing sheet, all the way through
`
`to thermoforming.
`
`· · · ·And the thermoforming includes thick
`
`MacNeil Exhibit 2183
`Yita v. MacNeil IP, IPR2020-01139, Page 28
`
`
`
`29
`
`gauge, which I spent a lot of my time doing in
`
`between thin gauge.
`
`· · · ·So when I mention thick gauge, thin gauge,
`
`I'm talking products between 80 mil pretty much
`
`and down of thin gauge and 80 mil and up thick
`
`gauge.
`
`· · · ·And consulting in every aspect of the
`
`thermoforming from the design -- product design to
`
`tool design to actually training of the
`
`individuals who are operating machines.
`
`· · · ·And pretty much everything to do with
`
`thermoforming and downstream operations of
`
`thermoform, trimming and finishing.
`
`· · Q. So you consider yourself to be an expert
`
`in thermoforming.· Correct?
`
`· · A. I do.
`
`· · Q. Do you consider yourself to be an expert
`
`in compression molding?
`
`· · A. No, I don't consider myself to be an
`
`expert in compression molding.
`
`· · Q. Do you consider yourself to be an expert
`
`in injection molding?
`
`MacNeil Exhibit 2183
`Yita v. MacNeil IP, IPR2020-01139, Page 29
`
`
`
`30
`
`· · A. I've been exposed to a lot of injection
`
`molding.· I have not -- I don't do much consulting
`
`on the injection molding side.· But I understand
`
`injection molding very, very well and could, if
`
`needed, offer assistance.
`
`· · Q. Would you hold yourself out to be an
`
`expert in injection molding?
`
`· · A. I have not advertised that or advocated
`
`that at all.· But in cases when you're going to a
`
`plastic polymer conversion company, sometimes
`
`some -- plastics conversion company, a
`
`manufacturer of plastic components.
`
`· · · ·(Record read)
`
`· · A. Sometimes there's a crossover where some
`
`components of the thermoformed part might require
`
`some injection molding components.· In those
`
`cases, I would offer up my assistance.
`
`· · Q. Do you consider yourself to be an expert
`
`in rubber?
`
`· · A. No, I wouldn't consider myself to be an
`
`expert in rubber.
`
`· · Q. Do you consider yourself to be an expert
`
`MacNeil Exhibit 2183
`Yita v. MacNeil IP, IPR2020-01139, Page 30
`
`
`
`31
`
`in making products out of rubber?
`
`· · A. I've produced a lot of rubber -- compounds
`
`with rubber, thermoplastic and compounds with
`
`rubber.· But no, I wouldn't particularly consider
`
`myself an expert.
`
`· · Q. Do you consider yourself to be an expert
`
`in injection molding rubber?
`
`· · A. No.· I haven't had much experience in
`
`injection molding rubber.
`
`· · Q. Do you consider yourself to be an expert
`
`in vehicle floor trays?
`
`· · A. Although I haven't been exposed much to
`
`vehicle floor trays, I've done very similar
`
`products in the refrigeration side.· And also the
`
`vehicle truck liners, bed liners, which are very
`
`similar in construction and geometry.
`
`· · Q. You say that you haven't been exposed much
`
`to vehicle floor trays.· Have you had any
`
`experience with vehicle floor trays other than
`
`your work on these two IPRs?
`
`· · A. No, I have not worked particularly on
`
`vehicle floor trays but very similar products
`
`MacNeil Exhibit 2183
`Yita v. MacNeil IP, IPR2020-01139, Page 31
`
`
`
`32
`
`requiring the same type of flooring geometry, like
`
`dunnage trays, dunnage trays which are used to
`
`carry products through an automotive manufacturing
`
`facility so they can assemble the parts.
`
`· · Q. Do you consider yourself to be an expert
`
`in the design of vehicle floor trays?
`
`· · A. I wouldn't present myself particularly
`
`being a designer of floor trays.· But the geometry
`
`of the floor trays definitely represents a lot of
`
`the designs I've done for similar products,
`
`including the dunnage trays and other types of
`
`electronic carry trays for the electronics
`
`industry.
`
`· · Q. So you've done work on products that you
`
`consider to be similar to vehicle floor trays, but
`
`you have never actually designed a vehicle floor
`
`tray.· Is that correct?
`
`· · A. That is correct.
`
`· · Q. Do you consider yourself to be an expert
`
`in vehicle floor mats?
`
`· · A. No, I'm not an expert in vehicle floor
`
`mats.
`
`MacNeil Exhibit 2183
`Yita v. MacNeil IP, IPR2020-01139, Page 32
`
`
`
`33
`
`· · Q. Do you consider yourself to be an expert
`
`in the design of vehicle floor mats?
`
`· · A. As I said before, the floor mats represent
`
`what I consider -- a lot of floor mats are
`
`thermoformed, and it lends itself to the design of
`
`similar products to that.· So yeah, not in
`
`particular formats, but very similar products.
`
`· · Q. Do you consider yourself to be an expert
`
`in the manufacture of vehicle floor mats?
`
`· · A. No.· Just manufacture of products, again,
`
`that are very similar in geometry and in some
`
`cases materials to vehicle floor mats.
`
`· · Q. You received a bachelor of science in
`
`electronics engineering from the Cape Peninsula
`
`University of Technology in South Africa.· Is that
`
`right?
`
`· · A. That is right.
`
`· · Q. And that was in 1986?
`
`· · A. Yes, that's about it.· Yes, that's
`
`correct.
`
`· · Q. Do you have any other degrees besides your
`
`bachelor of science in electronics engineering?
`
`MacNeil Exhibit 2183
`Yita v. MacNeil IP, IPR2020-01139, Page 33
`
`
`
`34
`
`· · A. No.· I attempted to get another degree
`
`when I was living in Germany -- and I went to the
`
`Aachen Institute of Technology, night school -- in
`
`polymer science and plastics.
`
`· · · ·And I battled with the German, and I did
`
`not finish the actual curriculum.· So I almost got
`
`there but didn't make it.
`
`· · Q. So you took classes in polymer science and
`
`plastics, in German.
Accessing this document will incur an additional charge of $.
After purchase, you can access this document again without charge.
Accept $ Charge
Still Working On It
This document is taking longer than usual to download. This can happen if we need to contact the court directly to obtain the document and their servers are running slowly.
Give it another minute or two to complete, and then try the refresh button.
A few More Minutes ... Still Working
It can take up to 5 minutes for us to download a document if the court servers are running slowly.
Thank you for your continued patience.
This document could not be displayed.
We could not find this document within its docket. Please go back to the docket page and check the link. If that does not work, go back to the docket and refresh it to pull the newest information.
Your account does not support viewing this document.
You need a Paid Account to view this document. Click here to change your account type.
Your account does not support viewing this document.
Set your membership
status to view this document.
With a Docket Alarm membership, you'll
get a whole lot more, including:
- Up-to-date information for this case.
- Email alerts whenever there is an update.
- Full text search for other cases.
- Get email alerts whenever a new case matches your search.
One Moment Please
The filing “” is large (MB) and is being downloaded.
Please refresh this page in a few minutes to see if the filing has been downloaded. The filing will also be emailed to you when the download completes.
Your document is on its way!
If you do not receive the document in five minutes, contact support at support@docketalarm.com.
Sealed Document
We are unable to display this document, it may be under a court ordered seal.
If you have proper credentials to access the file, you may proceed directly to the court's system using your government issued username and password.
Access Government Site
