`· · · · · · · · · · · · · PAGES:· 1-305
`· · · · · · · · · · · · · EXHIBITS:· See Index
`
`1
`
`UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`· · · · · · _________________
`
`BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`· · · · · · _________________
`
`· · · · · · · · YITA LLC,
`· · · · · · · ·Petitioner,
`
`· · · · · · · · · ·v.
`
`· · · · · · ·MACNEIL IP LLC,
`· · · · · · · Patent Owner.
`
`· · · · · ·_________________
`
`· · · · · ·Case IPR2020-01139
`· · · · · · Patent 8,382,186
`
`· · · · · · · · · ·and
`
`· · · · · ·Case IPR2020-01142
`· · · · · · Patent 8,833,834
`________________________________________
`
`·VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION of MARK STRACHAN
`· · - CONDUCTED BY VIDEOCONFERENCE -
`· · · Wednesday, September 8, 2021
`· · ·9:09 a.m. Central Daylight Time
`
`· · · · Michelle Keegan, RMR, CRR
`· · · · · · · · ·Lexitas
`· · 508-478-9795 ~ 508-478.0595 (Fax)
`· · · · · www.LexitasLegal.com
`
`MacNeil Exhibit 2183
`Yita v. MacNeil IP, IPR2020-01139, Page 1
`
`
`
`A P P E A R A N C E S:
`
`2
`
`· STERNE, KESSLER, GOLDSTEIN & FOX P.L.L.C.
`· By:· Jason A. Fitzsimmons, Esq.
`· 1100 New York Avenue, N.W., Suite 600
`· Washington, D.C. 20005
`· Phone:· (202) 371-2600
`· Email:· jfitzsimmons@sternekessler.com
`· Counsel for Petitioner
`
`· BAKER BOTTS L.L.P.
`· By:· Clarke Stavinoha, Esq.
`· 2001 Ross Avenue, Suite 900
`· Dallas, Texas 75201-2980
`· Phone:· (214) 953-6500
`· Email:· clarke.stavinoha@bakerbotts.com
`· Counsel for Patent Owner
`
`· PERKINS IP LAW GROUP LLC
`· By:· Jefferson Perkins, Esq.
`· 4200 Commerce Court, Suite 310
`· Lisle, Illinois 60532
`· Phone:· (630) 505-1305
`· Email:· jperkins@perkinsip.com
`· Counsel for Patent Owner
`
`Also Present:
`· Juan Torres, Videographer
`· James Throne
`
`MacNeil Exhibit 2183
`Yita v. MacNeil IP, IPR2020-01139, Page 2
`
`
`
`· · · · · · · · · · I N D E X
`
`3
`
`Videotaped Deposition of:· · · · · · · · · · ·Page
`
`MARK STRACHAN
`
`· ·By Mr. Stavinoha· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 8
`
`· ·By Mr. Fitzsimmons· · · · · · · · · · · · · 298
`
`· · · · · · · · · E X H I B I T S
`
`Case -01339· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·Page
`
`Exhibit 2117· Page images from book· · · · · · 125
`· · · · · · · "Materials Science of
`· · · · · · · Polymers for Engineers," 324
`· · · · · · · pages without Bates numbering
`
`Exhibit 2144· Article, "Crystallization and· · 129
`· · · · · · · hardening of
`· · · · · · · poly(ethylene-co-vinyl
`· · · · · · · acetate) mouthguards during
`· · · · · · · routine use," from
`· · · · · · · "Scientific Reports," 9 pages
`· · · · · · · without Bates numbering
`
`Exhibit 2145· Paper, "Crosslinked· · · · · · · 138
`· · · · · · · polyethylene," from "Indian
`· · · · · · · Journal of Chemical
`· · · · · · · Technology," 12 pages without
`· · · · · · · Bates numbering
`
`Exhibit 2146· Drawings, 5 pages without· · · · 183
`· · · · · · · Bates numbering
`
`MacNeil Exhibit 2183
`Yita v. MacNeil IP, IPR2020-01139, Page 3
`
`
`
`· · · · · · · ·EXHIBITS (continued)
`
`4
`
`Exhibit 2148· Paper, "Biodegradation of· · · · 166
`· · · · · · · Natural Rubber and Related
`· · · · · · · Compounds: Recent Insights
`· · · · · · · into a Hardly Understood
`· · · · · · · Catabolic Capability of
`· · · · · · · Microorganisms," from
`· · · · · · · "Applied and Environmental
`· · · · · · · Microbiology," 10 pages
`· · · · · · · without Bates numbering
`
`Exhibit 2150· United States Patent· · · · · · ·168
`· · · · · · · 4,367,732, seven pages
`· · · · · · · without Bates numbering
`
`Exhibit 2152· Paper, "Thermoforming of· · · · ·241
`· · · · · · · HDPE," from "Conference Paper
`· · · · · · · in AIP Conference Proceedings
`· · · · · · · - October 2017," eight pages
`· · · · · · · without Bates numbering
`
`Exhibit 2153· Page images from book,· · · · · ·258
`· · · · · · · "Practical Thermoforming
`· · · · · · · Principles and Applications,
`· · · · · · · Second Edition, Revised and
`· · · · · · · Expanded," 69 pages without
`· · · · · · · Bates numbering
`
`Exhibit 2154· Page images from book,· · · · · ·280
`· · · · · · · "Understanding Plastics
`· · · · · · · Recycling," 38 pages without
`· · · · · · · Bates numbering
`
`Exhibit 2155· Journal article, "Mechanical· · ·293
`· · · · · · · Recycling of Packaging
`· · · · · · · Plastics: A Review," from
`· · · · · · · "Macromolecular Rapid
`· · · · · · · Communications," 27 pages
`· · · · · · · without Bates numbering
`
`MacNeil Exhibit 2183
`Yita v. MacNeil IP, IPR2020-01139, Page 4
`
`
`
`· · · · · · · ·EXHIBITS (continued)
`
`5
`
`Exhibit 2156· United States Patent· · · · · · ·267
`· · · · · · · Application Publication, Pub.
`· · · · · · · No.: US 2004/0261297 A1, 37
`· · · · · · · pages without Bates numbering
`
`Exhibit 2158· United States Patent· · · · · · ·270
`· · · · · · · Application Publication, Pub.
`· · · · · · · No.: US 2016/0219973 A1, 23
`· · · · · · · pages without Bates numbering
`
`Case -01142· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·Page
`
`Exhibit 2117· Page images from book· · · · · · 125
`· · · · · · · "Materials Science of
`· · · · · · · Polymers for Engineers," 324
`· · · · · · · pages without Bates numbering
`
`Exhibit 2144· Article, "Crystallization and· · 129
`· · · · · · · hardening of
`· · · · · · · poly(ethylene-co-vinyl
`· · · · · · · acetate) mouthguards during
`· · · · · · · routine use," from
`· · · · · · · "Scientific Reports," 9 pages
`· · · · · · · without Bates numbering
`
`Exhibit 2145· Paper, "Crosslinked· · · · · · · 138
`· · · · · · · polyethylene," from "Indian
`· · · · · · · Journal of Chemical
`· · · · · · · Technology," 12 pages without
`· · · · · · · Bates numbering
`
`Exhibit 2146· Drawings, 5 pages without· · · · 183
`· · · · · · · Bates numbering
`
`MacNeil Exhibit 2183
`Yita v. MacNeil IP, IPR2020-01139, Page 5
`
`
`
`· · · · · · · ·EXHIBITS (continued)
`
`6
`
`Exhibit 2148· Paper, "Biodegradation of· · · · 166
`· · · · · · · Natural Rubber and Related
`· · · · · · · Compounds: Recent Insights
`· · · · · · · into a Hardly Understood
`· · · · · · · Catabolic Capability of
`· · · · · · · Microorganisms," from
`· · · · · · · "Applied and Environmental
`· · · · · · · Microbiology," 10 pages
`· · · · · · · without Bates numbering
`
`Exhibit 2150· United States Patent· · · · · · ·168
`· · · · · · · 4,367,732, seven pages
`· · · · · · · without Bates numbering
`
`Exhibit 2152· Paper, "Thermoforming of· · · · ·241
`· · · · · · · HDPE," from "Conference Paper
`· · · · · · · in AIP Conference Proceedings
`· · · · · · · - October 2017," eight pages
`· · · · · · · without Bates numbering
`
`Exhibit 2153· Page images from book,· · · · · ·258
`· · · · · · · "Practical Thermoforming
`· · · · · · · Principles and Applications,
`· · · · · · · Second Edition, Revised and
`· · · · · · · Expanded," 69 pages without
`· · · · · · · Bates numbering
`
`Exhibit 2154· Page images from book,· · · · · ·280
`· · · · · · · "Understanding Plastics
`· · · · · · · Recycling," 38 pages without
`· · · · · · · Bates numbering
`
`Exhibit 2155· Journal article, "Mechanical· · ·293
`· · · · · · · Recycling of Packaging
`· · · · · · · Plastics: A Review," from
`· · · · · · · "Macromolecular Rapid
`· · · · · · · Communications," 27 pages
`· · · · · · · without Bates numbering
`
`MacNeil Exhibit 2183
`Yita v. MacNeil IP, IPR2020-01139, Page 6
`
`
`
`· · · · · · · ·EXHIBITS (continued)
`
`7
`
`Exhibit 2156· United States Patent· · · · · · ·267
`· · · · · · · Application Publication, Pub.
`· · · · · · · No.: US 2004/0261297 A1, 37
`· · · · · · · pages without Bates numbering
`
`Exhibit 2158· United States Patent· · · · · · ·270
`· · · · · · · Application Publication, Pub.
`· · · · · · · No.: US 2016/0219973 A1, 23
`· · · · · · · pages without Bates numbering
`
`· · · · · · PREVIOUSLY MARKED EXHIBITS
`
`Exhibit 1005· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·150
`
`Exhibit 1006· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·191
`
`Exhibit 1008· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·155
`
`Exhibit 1009· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 51
`
`Exhibit 1041· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·179
`
`Exhibit 1042· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 17
`
`Exhibit 1054· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 79
`
`Exhibit 1056· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·153
`
`Exhibit 1067· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·228
`
`Exhibit 1069· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·156
`
`Exhibit 2012· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·196
`
`Exhibit 2137· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·197
`
`MacNeil Exhibit 2183
`Yita v. MacNeil IP, IPR2020-01139, Page 7
`
`
`
`· · · · · · · P R O C E E D I N G S
`
`· · · ·THE VIDEOGRAPHER:· We are on the record on
`
`September 8th, 2021, at approximately 9:09 a.m.
`
`Central Time, for the remote video deposition of
`
`8
`
`Mr. Mark Strachan.
`
`· · · ·My name is Juan Torres, and I am the
`
`videographer and document tech on behalf of
`
`Lexitas.
`
`· · · ·All appearances will be noted on the
`
`stenographic record.
`
`· · · ·Will the court reporter please swear in
`
`the witness.
`
`· · · · · · · · · MARK STRACHAN,
`
`having been satisfactorily identified and duly
`
`sworn by the Notary Public, was examined and
`
`testified as follows:
`
`· · · EXAMINATION BY COUNSEL FOR PATENT OWNER
`
`BY MR. STAVINOHA:
`
`· · Q. Good morning.
`
`· · A. Good morning.
`
`· · Q. Could you please state your full name for
`
`the record.
`
`MacNeil Exhibit 2183
`Yita v. MacNeil IP, IPR2020-01139, Page 8
`
`
`
`9
`
`· · A. Mark Strachan.
`
`· · Q. And, Mr. Strachan, where do you reside?
`
`· · A. I reside in Royal Palm Beach, Florida.
`
`· · Q. And what is your residence address?
`
`· · A. 2926 East Fontana Court, Royal Palm Beach,
`
`Florida 33411.
`
`· · Q. Mr. Strachan, have you ever been deposed
`
`before?
`
`· · A. Yes, I have.
`
`· · Q. How many times?
`
`· · A. Three times.
`
`· · Q. Three times.· And were any of those in
`
`connection with a patent proceeding?
`
`· · A. Yeah, they were.· Two of them were patent
`
`infringements, and one was an accident related.
`
`· · Q. Okay.· And the two patent infringement
`
`cases, what technology did those cases concern?
`
`· · A. The first one included a patent
`
`infringement of a tamper-evident plastic packaging
`
`tray, which was infringed.
`
`· · · ·And the second one was the -- sorry.· My
`
`memory now, it was an infringement of materials,
`
`MacNeil Exhibit 2183
`Yita v. MacNeil IP, IPR2020-01139, Page 9
`
`
`
`usage of materials for a particular product, also
`
`10
`
`in the packaging industry.
`
`· · · ·And then the third one was an injury on an
`
`extrusion system where the gentleman lost his
`
`hand.
`
`· · Q. Okay.· And for the first case that you
`
`mentioned that involved infringement of a
`
`tamper-evident plastic packaging tray, what was
`
`your role in that case?
`
`· · A. I was the expert witness for the defense.
`
`Yeah.· Basically, I was there as an expert witness
`
`to verify that, in fact, the patent was -- that
`
`the patent was valid and that the -- there was no
`
`prior art and that the plaintiff had no right to
`
`manufacture that product.
`
`· · Q. So in that first case you were offering
`
`opinions that the patent was valid.· Is that
`
`correct?
`
`· · A. That's correct.· Yes.
`
`· · Q. And for the second case that involved
`
`usage of materials for a particular product in the
`
`packaging industry, what was that product?
`
`MacNeil Exhibit 2183
`Yita v. MacNeil IP, IPR2020-01139, Page 10
`
`
`
`11
`
`· · A. It was a product for the perfume industry
`
`where they had a barrier to different perfumes,
`
`the barrier to enable that perfume to keep its
`
`value or its smell over time.
`
`· · Q. And in that case, were you offering expert
`
`testimony on behalf of the patent owner or the
`
`accused infringer?
`
`· · A. On the patent owner at the time.· Yes.· At
`
`the time it was the patent owner.
`
`· · Q. Okay.· So I understand you've been deposed
`
`before, but I'd just like to go over some of the
`
`basic ground rules before we get started just to
`
`make sure we're on the same page.
`
`· · · ·So do you understand that I'm going to be
`
`asking you a series of questions today during this
`
`deposition?
`
`· · A. Yes, I do.
`
`· · Q. Do you understand that you took an oath to
`
`tell the truth?
`
`· · A. Yes, I do understand.
`
`· · Q. Are you under the influence of any
`
`medication today?
`
`MacNeil Exhibit 2183
`Yita v. MacNeil IP, IPR2020-01139, Page 11
`
`
`
`12
`
`· · A. No, I'm not.
`
`· · Q. Is there any other reason why you would
`
`not be able to fully, accurately, and honestly
`
`answer my questions today?
`
`· · A. No, there's no other reason.· There's no
`
`reason for that.
`
`· · Q. So do you understand that there's a court
`
`reporter who is typing up the questions I'm asking
`
`and the answers you're giving?
`
`· · A. I do understand.
`
`· · Q. So since the court reporter can only type
`
`up one person talking at a time, can you please
`
`try and wait until I finish my questions before
`
`you answer?
`
`· · A. I will do that.
`
`· · Q. Great.· Thank you.· And please also be
`
`sure to answer questions verbally and not with a
`
`nod or a grunt or anything like that.
`
`· · A. I'll do that.
`
`· · Q. Now, counsel for petitioner may object to
`
`questions I ask from time to time; but unless
`
`you're instructed specifically not to answer,
`
`MacNeil Exhibit 2183
`Yita v. MacNeil IP, IPR2020-01139, Page 12
`
`
`
`you'll still need to answer the question.· Do you
`
`13
`
`understand?
`
`· · A. I do understand.
`
`· · Q. And if you don't understand any of my
`
`questions, please let me know.· Otherwise, I'll
`
`assume that you understood the question.· Does
`
`that sound good?
`
`· · A. That does sound good.
`
`· · Q. All right.· And I'll try to take a break
`
`every hour or so.· But if you need one before
`
`then, just let me know.· The only thing I'll ask
`
`is if there's a question pending, I'd like you to
`
`answer that question before we take a break.
`
`· · A. Understood.
`
`· · Q. Where are you located today, Mr. Strachan?
`
`· · A. I'm located at my home in Royal Palm
`
`Beach.
`
`· · Q. Are you alone in the room?
`
`· · A. Yes.· I'm alone in the house.
`
`· · Q. And what equipment are you using for the
`
`deposition today?
`
`· · A. I'm using my desktop computer.
`
`MacNeil Exhibit 2183
`Yita v. MacNeil IP, IPR2020-01139, Page 13
`
`
`
`14
`
`· · Q. Do you have a phone with you in the room?
`
`· · A. I do.· My phone is turned off.
`
`· · Q. Great.· And do you agree not to use that
`
`phone during the questioning today for any reason?
`
`· · A. I do agree.
`
`· · Q. Do you have hard copies of any documents
`
`in front of you?
`
`· · A. Yes, I do.
`
`· · Q. And what documents are those?
`
`· · A. I have my declaration.· I have a hard copy
`
`of Yung, Rabbe, both version, and then -- Rabbe.
`
`And then I have -- to my left, I have a list of
`
`materials that are considered as my table for
`
`reference to exhibits.· And then also a table of
`
`contents for my declaration.
`
`· · Q. Anything else?
`
`· · A. That's all I have in front of me.
`
`· · Q. And are those clean copies?
`
`· · A. Yes, these are clean copies.
`
`· · Q. So there's no notes or anything else on
`
`them?
`
`· · A. Absolutely no notes.· Clean printed
`
`MacNeil Exhibit 2183
`Yita v. MacNeil IP, IPR2020-01139, Page 14
`
`
`
`copies.
`
`· · Q. So I understand that you've provided
`
`testimony in connection with two IPR proceedings.
`
`15
`
`Is that correct?
`
`· · A. That's correct.
`
`· · Q. The first is IPR2020-01139, which relates
`
`to U.S. Patent Number 8,382,186.· Is that correct?
`
`· · A. Yeah.· I don't fully recall the numbers
`
`and all right now.· You'd have to remind me what
`
`each of those were.· But I have been in two
`
`places.· Yes.
`
`· · Q. So if I refer to the "1139 proceeding,"
`
`you'll understand that I'm referring to
`
`IPR2020-01139?
`
`· · A. I don't remember the particulars of each
`
`of those cases or the numbers just on the numbers
`
`alone.
`
`· · Q. Do you have a copy of your declaration in
`
`front of you?
`
`· · A. Yes, I do.
`
`· · Q. Would you turn to that.· Could you turn to
`
`page 2 of your declaration, the table of contents.
`
`MacNeil Exhibit 2183
`Yita v. MacNeil IP, IPR2020-01139, Page 15
`
`
`
`· · A. Okay.· Yes.
`
`· · Q. Okay.· So you see the numbers at the top
`
`16
`
`of the page, in the top-right corner,
`
`IPR2020-01139 and IPR2020-01142?
`
`· · A. Yes, I do.
`
`· · Q. Okay.· Does that refresh your recollection
`
`as far as the proceeding numbers?
`
`· · A. Yes, I do.
`
`· · · ·I was thinking that you were referring to
`
`a past case that I did.· I apologize for that.
`
`· · Q. So I'll just ask again.· If I refer to the
`
`"1139 proceeding," you'll understand that I'm
`
`referring to IPR2020-01139?
`
`· · A. Yes, I understand.
`
`· · Q. And if I refer to the "'186 patent,"
`
`you'll understand that I'm referring to U.S.
`
`Patent Number 8,382,186?
`
`· · A. That's correct.
`
`· · Q. So the second proceeding is IPR2020-01142,
`
`which relates to U.S. Patent Number 8,833,834.· Is
`
`that correct?
`
`· · A. Yes, that's correct.
`
`MacNeil Exhibit 2183
`Yita v. MacNeil IP, IPR2020-01139, Page 16
`
`
`
`· · Q. So if I refer to the "1142 proceeding,"
`
`you'll understand that I'm referring to
`
`17
`
`IPR2020-01142?
`
`· · A. Yes.
`
`· · Q. And if I refer to the "'834 patent,"
`
`you'll understand that I'm referring to U.S.
`
`Patent Number 8,833,834?
`
`· · A. Yes.
`
`· · · ·MR. STAVINOHA:· So can we pull up
`
`Exhibit 1042 from IPR2020-01139.
`
`· · A. Exhibit 1042?
`
`· · Q. I'm going to have the technician pull it
`
`up on the screen here.
`
`· · · ·(Previously marked Exhibit 1042)
`
`· · A. I do so see it.· It's kind of small, but I
`
`do see it.· I'll try and make this bigger.
`
`· · Q. Mr. Strachan, do you recognize this
`
`document?
`
`· · A. Yes, I do recognize the document.
`
`· · Q. This is the declaration that you submitted
`
`in IPR2020-01139.· Correct?
`
`· · A. The document that I submitted?
`
`MacNeil Exhibit 2183
`Yita v. MacNeil IP, IPR2020-01139, Page 17
`
`
`
`18
`
`· · Q. This is a copy of your declaration that
`
`was submitted in IPR2020-01139.· Correct?
`
`· · A. Okay, okay.· Correct.
`
`· · Q. If you look on the screen, it says,
`
`"Petition for Inter Partes Review."
`
`· · · ·I'm not sure this is the right document
`
`that's on the screen.
`
`· · · ·MR. STAVINOHA:· Juan, can we --
`
`· · A. It's smaller now.· I see "Inter Partes
`
`Review," as mentioned.· That's not the document in
`
`question.
`
`· · · ·MR. STAVINOHA:· Juan, can we pull up
`
`Exhibit 1042 from the 1139 proceeding.
`
`· · · ·THE WITNESS:· Is there any way you can
`
`make that document a little bigger or is it just
`
`my side?
`
`· · · ·Here we go.
`
`· · A. I do recognize that document.· It's very
`
`small on my screen, but I will endeavor to -- here
`
`we go.· I managed to make it bigger.
`
`· · Q. Okay.· Great.· So the document on the
`
`screen here is the declaration that you submitted
`
`MacNeil Exhibit 2183
`Yita v. MacNeil IP, IPR2020-01139, Page 18
`
`
`
`19
`
`in IPR2020-01139.· Correct?
`
`· · A. That's correct.
`
`· · Q. And if we could go to page 71 of the PDF,
`
`please.· Mr. Strachan, is this your signature?
`
`· · A. That is my signature.
`
`· · Q. Are you aware of any statements in your
`
`declaration for the 1139 proceeding that required
`
`correction?
`
`· · A. There's no statements of mine, that I'm
`
`aware of, that required correction.
`
`· · · ·MR. STAVINOHA:· Juan, can we pull up
`
`Exhibit 1042 from IPR2020-01142.
`
`· · Q. Mr. Strachan, do you recognize this
`
`document?
`
`· · A. Yes, I recognize this document.
`
`· · Q. This is the declaration that you submitted
`
`in IPR2020-01142.· Correct?
`
`· · A. That is correct.
`
`· · Q. And if we could go to page 71 of the PDF,
`
`Mr. Strachan, is this your signature?
`
`· · A. That's correct.
`
`· · Q. Are you aware of any statements in your
`
`MacNeil Exhibit 2183
`Yita v. MacNeil IP, IPR2020-01139, Page 19
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`
`
`declaration to the 1142 proceeding that require
`
`20
`
`correction?
`
`· · A. I'm not aware of any that required
`
`correction.
`
`· · Q. Other than the cover page, are there any
`
`differences between the declarations you submitted
`
`in IPR2020-01139 and IPR2020-01142?
`
`· · A. I don't recall there being any
`
`differences.
`
`· · Q. Okay.
`
`· · · ·MR. STAVINOHA:· So, Jason, can we
`
`stipulate that Mr. Strachan's testimony with
`
`respect to the 1139 declaration is also applicable
`
`to the 1142 proceeding?
`
`· · · ·MR. FITZSIMMONS:· Yes, that's fine.
`
`· · · ·MR. STAVINOHA:· Okay.· Juan, if we could
`
`please pull up Exhibit 1042 from the 1139 IPR.
`
`It's the one that we just looked at.· And let's go
`
`to PDF page 4, please.
`
`· · Q. Mr. Strachan, this list sets forth the
`
`materials you considered in forming your opinions
`
`expressed in your declaration.· Correct?
`
`MacNeil Exhibit 2183
`Yita v. MacNeil IP, IPR2020-01139, Page 20
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`21
`
`· · A. Yes, that's correct.
`
`· · Q. Does this table accurately reflect the
`
`materials you considered in preparing your
`
`declaration?
`
`· · A. Yes, it does accurately reflect that.
`
`· · Q. You didn't consider anything else other
`
`than the materials listed in this table?
`
`· · · ·MR. FITZSIMMONS:· Objection to form.
`
`· · A. No.· I've listed all that I've considered.
`
`· · Q. Who participated in creating your
`
`declaration?
`
`· · A. Jason Fitzsimmons and Steve Merrill spent
`
`four or five hours with me and then prepared a
`
`rough draft for me.· I then completed that and put
`
`in the information that I needed to do.
`
`· · · ·And everything that I've put in my
`
`declaration is my opinion, and I stand by that.
`
`· · Q. Okay.· So you met with Jason and Steve and
`
`then they prepared a rough draft of your
`
`declaration.· Is that correct?
`
`· · A. A template.· Just a template that I can
`
`work to so that I could then have a good format to
`
`MacNeil Exhibit 2183
`Yita v. MacNeil IP, IPR2020-01139, Page 21
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`22
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`follow, which is what I prefer to do when I'm
`
`doing reports and declarations.
`
`· · Q. Did any other lawyers participate in the
`
`creation of your declaration?
`
`· · A. No.· I spent time with Jason and Steve.
`
`· · Q. Did you type your declaration?
`
`· · A. I typed most of my declaration.· For the
`
`template, I just filled in what was needed for all
`
`my opinions.· They were all typed by myself.· And
`
`then I submitted that copy.
`
`· · Q. Did you carefully check every citation to
`
`be sure the citations were accurate?
`
`· · · ·MR. FITZSIMMONS:· Objection to form.
`
`· · A. I believe I did.· I did my best to do so.
`
`· · Q. And did you carefully check every
`
`quotation in your declaration to be sure the
`
`quotations were accurate?
`
`· · · ·MR. FITZSIMMONS:· Objection, form.
`
`· · A. I do believe that I did that.· I reviewed
`
`it several times myself.
`
`· · Q. Mr. Strachan, what did you do to prepare
`
`for today's deposition?
`
`MacNeil Exhibit 2183
`Yita v. MacNeil IP, IPR2020-01139, Page 22
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`23
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`· · A. To prepare for today's deposition, I
`
`thoroughly read through my declaration, all the --
`
`Yung and the Rabbe and all the other -- the other
`
`list of materials that I've listed in the exhibits
`
`on my "List of materials considered."· I pretty
`
`much went through as much material as I could to
`
`refresh my memory.
`
`· · Q. Did you do anything else?
`
`· · A. No, I didn't.· I don't recall doing
`
`anything else other than that.
`
`· · Q. Did you meet with anyone before today's
`
`deposition to prepare for today's depo?
`
`· · A. No.· Basically, it was one meeting with
`
`Steve and Jason to just help me to understand what
`
`the proceedings -- what I needed to do, what I
`
`needed to do on my computer, what I could not
`
`have, what I could have.· Just basically the
`
`semantics.
`
`· · Q. And when did you have that meeting with
`
`Steve and Jason?
`
`· · A. Yesterday.
`
`· · Q. Yesterday.· Okay.· Mr. Strachan, in your
`
`MacNeil Exhibit 2183
`Yita v. MacNeil IP, IPR2020-01139, Page 23
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`24
`
`declaration you stated that you were being
`
`compensated for your work on the IPRs.· Is that
`
`correct?
`
`· · A. Yes, I'm being compensated.
`
`· · Q. And are you being compensated at an hourly
`
`rate?
`
`· · A. Yes.· Specifically now during this COVID
`
`era, because I'm not present at the law office,
`
`it's an hourly rate.
`
`· · Q. And what is the hourly rate that you're
`
`charging for your work in these proceedings?
`
`· · A. In this particular case, my hourly rate
`
`was $650, I think.
`
`· · · ·Let me look just to make 100 percent sure
`
`again.
`
`· · · ·Could you direct -- oh, there it is.· 695
`
`per hour.· My rates range anywhere between 600 to
`
`700 depending on my -- on what project I'm doing.
`
`· · Q. Okay.· How do you determine the rate to
`
`charge in that $600 to $700 range?
`
`· · A. Well, in my experience now, 18 years as a
`
`consultant, I'm one of -- there's not many
`
`MacNeil Exhibit 2183
`Yita v. MacNeil IP, IPR2020-01139, Page 24
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`
`
`consultants, hands-on technical consultants like
`
`25
`
`myself out there.
`
`· · · ·And over time -- I started off with a
`
`lower rate when I was -- first got into the
`
`industry.· And as I went along, I started
`
`demanding a higher figure.· And I had no
`
`resistance to that.· And I've now settled on a
`
`figure of typically around $700 an hour.· So
`
`that's how I got to that.
`
`· · Q. Are you receiving any compensation other
`
`than hourly compensation?
`
`· · A. No, no other compensation other than
`
`hourly.· If I was in court, then I would have a
`
`different rate.· Physically in court.
`
`· · Q. And what would the rate be?· What would
`
`your rate be if you were in court?
`
`· · A. Well, my rate in court would be typically
`
`around $5,000 a day.
`
`· · Q. Okay.· How much have you billed on the
`
`cases so far?
`
`· · A. How much exactly, a figure?
`
`· · Q. If you know the exact figure.
`
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`Yita v. MacNeil IP, IPR2020-01139, Page 25
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`26
`
`· · A. Yeah.· It's approximately around 15,000.
`
`· · Q. And how many hours have you spent on the
`
`IPRs so far?
`
`· · A. I'll have to think on that.· I don't have
`
`my documentation in front of me.· But I would say,
`
`if I calculate that, it's around -- I've spent
`
`20 -- about 20 hours constantly on it.
`
`· · · ·I didn't always bill for every bit on it
`
`because I felt I had to read things multiple times
`
`because -- so it would soak in.· I didn't charge
`
`for the time I might have read something two or
`
`three times over.
`
`· · Q. Okay.· What do you mean by "20 hours
`
`constantly"?
`
`· · A. That's a mistake.· Not "constantly."· Of
`
`course, I had to take breaks.· But whatever
`
`opportunity I have, because I'm a very busy
`
`consultant in the industry.
`
`· · · ·So when I was on a plane or when I was at
`
`home, or whatever time I could get, I would
`
`allocate to reading all the materials in order to
`
`prepare my declaration.
`
`MacNeil Exhibit 2183
`Yita v. MacNeil IP, IPR2020-01139, Page 26
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`
`
`· · · ·So between the reading work and the actual
`
`preparing of the declaration, sporadic hours here
`
`27
`
`and there.
`
`· · Q. Did you have any assistants or employees
`
`to help you with your work on the IPRs?
`
`· · A. No.· I wish I did, but I don't.· I'm just
`
`the only, sole person in my company.
`
`· · Q. Have you ever been an expert for the law
`
`firm Sterne Kessler that is representing Yita LLC
`
`in these IPRs?
`
`· · A. I am only right now.· Nothing prior to
`
`that.
`
`· · Q. Have you ever been an expert for Yita LLC
`
`before?
`
`· · A. No.
`
`· · Q. Have you ever done any consulting for
`
`Yita LLC?
`
`· · A. No.
`
`· · Q. What opinions were you asked to give in
`
`these IPRs?
`
`· · · ·MR. FITZSIMMONS:· I'd just object to the
`
`extent that would reveal any privileged
`
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`Yita v. MacNeil IP, IPR2020-01139, Page 27
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`28
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`communications.
`
`· · · ·And I would instruct the witness not to
`
`answer that.
`
`· · Q. Mr. Strachan, are you able to answer that
`
`question without revealing any privileged
`
`communications?
`
`· · A. I've been instructed not to answer, so I
`
`prefer not to answer.
`
`· · Q. Have you rendered any opinions unfavorable
`
`to Yita LLC in this case?
`
`· · A. No, I've not rendered any unfavorable to
`
`Yita.
`
`· · Q. Did you talk with any other experts before
`
`forming your opinions in your declaration?
`
`· · A. No, I did not.
`
`· · Q. Mr. Strachan, what do you consider
`
`yourself to be an expert in?
`
`· · A. Well, I've been an expert in anything from
`
`plastics extrusion from the pellet, all the way
`
`through a manufacturing sheet, all the way through
`
`to thermoforming.
`
`· · · ·And the thermoforming includes thick
`
`MacNeil Exhibit 2183
`Yita v. MacNeil IP, IPR2020-01139, Page 28
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`
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`29
`
`gauge, which I spent a lot of my time doing in
`
`between thin gauge.
`
`· · · ·So when I mention thick gauge, thin gauge,
`
`I'm talking products between 80 mil pretty much
`
`and down of thin gauge and 80 mil and up thick
`
`gauge.
`
`· · · ·And consulting in every aspect of the
`
`thermoforming from the design -- product design to
`
`tool design to actually training of the
`
`individuals who are operating machines.
`
`· · · ·And pretty much everything to do with
`
`thermoforming and downstream operations of
`
`thermoform, trimming and finishing.
`
`· · Q. So you consider yourself to be an expert
`
`in thermoforming.· Correct?
`
`· · A. I do.
`
`· · Q. Do you consider yourself to be an expert
`
`in compression molding?
`
`· · A. No, I don't consider myself to be an
`
`expert in compression molding.
`
`· · Q. Do you consider yourself to be an expert
`
`in injection molding?
`
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`Yita v. MacNeil IP, IPR2020-01139, Page 29
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`30
`
`· · A. I've been exposed to a lot of injection
`
`molding.· I have not -- I don't do much consulting
`
`on the injection molding side.· But I understand
`
`injection molding very, very well and could, if
`
`needed, offer assistance.
`
`· · Q. Would you hold yourself out to be an
`
`expert in injection molding?
`
`· · A. I have not advertised that or advocated
`
`that at all.· But in cases when you're going to a
`
`plastic polymer conversion company, sometimes
`
`some -- plastics conversion company, a
`
`manufacturer of plastic components.
`
`· · · ·(Record read)
`
`· · A. Sometimes there's a crossover where some
`
`components of the thermoformed part might require
`
`some injection molding components.· In those
`
`cases, I would offer up my assistance.
`
`· · Q. Do you consider yourself to be an expert
`
`in rubber?
`
`· · A. No, I wouldn't consider myself to be an
`
`expert in rubber.
`
`· · Q. Do you consider yourself to be an expert
`
`MacNeil Exhibit 2183
`Yita v. MacNeil IP, IPR2020-01139, Page 30
`
`
`
`31
`
`in making products out of rubber?
`
`· · A. I've produced a lot of rubber -- compounds
`
`with rubber, thermoplastic and compounds with
`
`rubber.· But no, I wouldn't particularly consider
`
`myself an expert.
`
`· · Q. Do you consider yourself to be an expert
`
`in injection molding rubber?
`
`· · A. No.· I haven't had much experience in
`
`injection molding rubber.
`
`· · Q. Do you consider yourself to be an expert
`
`in vehicle floor trays?
`
`· · A. Although I haven't been exposed much to
`
`vehicle floor trays, I've done very similar
`
`products in the refrigeration side.· And also the
`
`vehicle truck liners, bed liners, which are very
`
`similar in construction and geometry.
`
`· · Q. You say that you haven't been exposed much
`
`to vehicle floor trays.· Have you had any
`
`experience with vehicle floor trays other than
`
`your work on these two IPRs?
`
`· · A. No, I have not worked particularly on
`
`vehicle floor trays but very similar products
`
`MacNeil Exhibit 2183
`Yita v. MacNeil IP, IPR2020-01139, Page 31
`
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`32
`
`requiring the same type of flooring geometry, like
`
`dunnage trays, dunnage trays which are used to
`
`carry products through an automotive manufacturing
`
`facility so they can assemble the parts.
`
`· · Q. Do you consider yourself to be an expert
`
`in the design of vehicle floor trays?
`
`· · A. I wouldn't present myself particularly
`
`being a designer of floor trays.· But the geometry
`
`of the floor trays definitely represents a lot of
`
`the designs I've done for similar products,
`
`including the dunnage trays and other types of
`
`electronic carry trays for the electronics
`
`industry.
`
`· · Q. So you've done work on products that you
`
`consider to be similar to vehicle floor trays, but
`
`you have never actually designed a vehicle floor
`
`tray.· Is that correct?
`
`· · A. That is correct.
`
`· · Q. Do you consider yourself to be an expert
`
`in vehicle floor mats?
`
`· · A. No, I'm not an expert in vehicle floor
`
`mats.
`
`MacNeil Exhibit 2183
`Yita v. MacNeil IP, IPR2020-01139, Page 32
`
`
`
`33
`
`· · Q. Do you consider yourself to be an expert
`
`in the design of vehicle floor mats?
`
`· · A. As I said before, the floor mats represent
`
`what I consider -- a lot of floor mats are
`
`thermoformed, and it lends itself to the design of
`
`similar products to that.· So yeah, not in
`
`particular formats, but very similar products.
`
`· · Q. Do you consider yourself to be an expert
`
`in the manufacture of vehicle floor mats?
`
`· · A. No.· Just manufacture of products, again,
`
`that are very similar in geometry and in some
`
`cases materials to vehicle floor mats.
`
`· · Q. You received a bachelor of science in
`
`electronics engineering from the Cape Peninsula
`
`University of Technology in South Africa.· Is that
`
`right?
`
`· · A. That is right.
`
`· · Q. And that was in 1986?
`
`· · A. Yes, that's about it.· Yes, that's
`
`correct.
`
`· · Q. Do you have any other degrees besides your
`
`bachelor of science in electronics engineering?
`
`MacNeil Exhibit 2183
`Yita v. MacNeil IP, IPR2020-01139, Page 33
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`34
`
`· · A. No.· I attempted to get another degree
`
`when I was living in Germany -- and I went to the
`
`Aachen Institute of Technology, night school -- in
`
`polymer science and plastics.
`
`· · · ·And I battled with the German, and I did
`
`not finish the actual curriculum.· So I almost got
`
`there but didn't make it.
`
`· · Q. So you took classes in polymer science and
`
`plastics, in German.