`
`Transcript of Dr. Richard Klopp
`
`Date: July 30, 2021
`Case: Walmart Inc, et al. -v- Caravan Canopy International, Inc. (IPR2020-01026)
`
`Planet Depos
`Phone: 888.433.3767
`Email:: transcripts@planetdepos.com
`www.planetdepos.com
`
`WORLDWIDE COURT REPORTING & LITIGATION TECHNOLOGY
`
`CCI Ex. 2033 – Page 1
`Walmart Inc. v. Caravan Canopy Intl., Inc.
`IPR2020-01026
`
`
`
` UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`_________________________________
` )
`WALMART INC.; Z-SHADE CO., LTD.; ) CASE NO.:
`COSTCO WHOLESALE CORPORATION; )
`LOWE’S HOME CENTERS, LLC; and ) IPR2020-010261
`SHELTERLOGIC CORP., )
` )
` Petitioner, )
` )
` v. )
` )
`CARAVAN CANOPY INTERNATIONAL, )
`INC., )
` )
` Patent Owner. )
`_________________________________)
`
` DEPOSITION OF DR. RICHARD KLOPP
` VOLUME I
` REMOTELY IN REDWOOD CITY, CALIFORNIA
` FRIDAY, JULY 30, 2021
`
`REPORTED BY: NATALIE PARVIZI-AZAD, CSR, RPR, RSR
` CSR NO. 14125
`JOB NO.: 386565
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`CCI Ex. 2033 – Page 2
`Walmart Inc. v. Caravan Canopy Intl., Inc.
`IPR2020-01026
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`
`
`Transcript of Dr. Richard Klopp
`Conducted on July 30, 2021
`
`2
`
` UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`_________________________________
` )
`WALMART INC.; Z-SHADE CO., LTD.; )CASE NO.:
`COSTCO WHOLESALE CORPORATION; )
`LOWE’S HOME CENTERS, LLC; AND )IPR2020-010261
`SHELTERLOGIC CORP., )
` )
` Petitioner, )
` )
` v. )
` )
`CARAVAN CANOPY INTERNATIONAL, )
`INC., )
` )
` Patent Owner. )
`_________________________________)
`
` DEPOSITION OF DR. RICHARD KLOPP, VOLUME I
` TAKEN ON BEHALF OF THE PATENT OWNER
` REMOTELY VIA ZOOM VIDEO CONFERENCING, IN
` REDWOOD CITY, CALIFORNIA, BEGINNING AT
` 9:10 A.M. AND ENDING AT 12:51 P.M., ON
` FRIDAY, JULY 30, 2021, BEFORE
` NATALIE PARVIZI-AZAD, CERTIFIED SHORTHAND
` REPORTER NUMBER 14125.
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`CCI Ex. 2033 – Page 3
`Walmart Inc. v. Caravan Canopy Intl., Inc.
`IPR2020-01026
`
`
`
`Transcript of Dr. Richard Klopp
`Conducted on July 30, 2021
`
`3
`
` A P P E A R A N C E S
`
`FOR THE PETITIONER, WALMART INC.:
` KILPATRICK TOWNSEND & STOCKTON
` BY: DAVID REED, ESQ.
` 1100 PEACHTREE STREET NE
` SUITE 2800
` ATLANTA, GEORGIA 30309
` (404) 745-2548
` DREED@KILPATRICKTOWNSEND.COM
` - AND -
` KILPATRICK TOWNSEND & STOCKTON
` BY: KATE GEYER, ESQ.
` 1420 FIFTH AVENUE
` SUITE 3700
` SEATTLE, WASHINGTON 98101
` (206) 516-3094
` KGEYER@KILPATRICKTOWNSEND.COM
`
`FOR THE PETITIONER, Z-SHADE CO., LTD.; COSTCO
`WHOLESALE CORPORATION:
` KNOBBE MARTENS
` BY: LAUREN KATZENELLENBOGEN, ESQ.
` 2040 MAIN STREET
` 14TH FLOOR
` IRVINE, CALIFORNIA 92614
` (949) 760-0404
` LAUREN.KELLER@KNOBBE.COM
`
`FOR THE PETITIONER, LOWE’S HOME CENTERS, LLC:
` BROWN WEGNER LLP
` BY: WILLIAM J. BROWN, ESQ.
` 2010 MAIN STREET
` SUITE 1260
` IRVINE, CALIFORNIA 92614
` (949) 705-0080
` BILL@BROWNWEGNER.COM
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`CCI Ex. 2033 – Page 4
`Walmart Inc. v. Caravan Canopy Intl., Inc.
`IPR2020-01026
`
`
`
`Transcript of Dr. Richard Klopp
`Conducted on July 30, 2021
`
`4
`
`FOR THE PATENT OWNER, CARAVAN CANOPY
`INTERNATIONAL, INC.:
` LEWIS ROCA ROTHGERBER CHRISTIE
` BY: KYLE KELLAR, ESQ.
` BY: STEVEN FRENCH, ESQ.
` 655 NORTH CENTRAL AVENUE
` SUITE 2300
` GLENDALE, CALIFORNIA 91203
` (626) 795-9900
` KKELLAR@LEWISROCA.COM
` SFRENCH@LEWISROCA.COM
`
`ALSO PRESENT:
` GUILLERMO BAEZA, SENIOR COUNSEL FOR LOWES;
` LAWRENCE WALLACE, DEPOSITION TECHNICIAN
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`CCI Ex. 2033 – Page 5
`Walmart Inc. v. Caravan Canopy Intl., Inc.
`IPR2020-01026
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`
`
`Transcript of Dr. Richard Klopp
`Conducted on July 30, 2021
`
`5
`
` I N D E X
`
`WITNESS PAGE
`DR. RICHARD KLOPP
` EXAMINATION BY MR. KELLAR 7
`
` E X H I B I T S
`EXHIBIT NO. DESCRIPTION PAGE
`EXHIBIT 1025 SUPPLEMENTAL DECLARATION OF 11
` DR. RICHARD W. KLOPP
`EXHIBIT 2030 PATENT OWNER'S TRANSLATION 14
` OF EXHIBIT 1005
`EXHIBIT 1004 YANG TRANSLATION- 14
` CERTIFICATION
`EXHIBIT 1001 US PATENT NO. 5944040, 19
` JANG
`EXHIBIT 1018 CLAIM CONSTRUCTION ORDER 23
`EXHIBIT 1007 US PATENT NO. 4779635, 61
` LYNCH
`EXHIBIT 1033 DEFINITION OF WATER-SHEDDING 81
` ROOF SYSTEM - NATIONAL
` ROOFING CONTRACTORS
` ASSOCIATION
`EXHIBIT 1034 HE JOBSON ET AL BASIC 83
` HYDRAULIC PRINCIPALS OF
` OPEN-CHANNEL FLOW
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`CCI Ex. 2033 – Page 6
`Walmart Inc. v. Caravan Canopy Intl., Inc.
`IPR2020-01026
`
`
`
`Transcript of Dr. Richard Klopp
`Conducted on July 30, 2021
`
`6
`
` REMOTELY IN REDWOOD CITY, CALIFORNIA
` FRIDAY, JULY 30, 2021, 9:10 A.M.
`
` THE CERTIFIED STENOGRAPHER: Please raise
`your right hand to be sworn.
`
` DR. RICHARD KLOPP,
` having declared under penalty of perjury to tell
` the truth, was examined and testified as follows:
`
` MR. KELLAR: We're going to briefly read
`appearances on to the record. Representing patent
`owner in this proceeding is myself, Kyle Keller.
`I'm here with Steven French of the law firm Lewis
`Roca Rothgerber Christie.
` MR. REED: For petitioner Walmart Inc.,
`this is David Reed with the law firm Kilpatrick
`Townsend & Stockton. I'm joined by Kate Geyer,
`also of Kilpatrick Townsend.
` MR. KATZENELLENBOGEN: For Costco and
`Z-Shade, this is Lauren Katzenellenborgen of
`Knobbe Martens.
` MR. BROWN: Good morning. On behalf of
`Lowe's Home Centers LLC, William Brown of Brown
`Wegner LLP. And, additionally, with me attending,
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`CCI Ex. 2033 – Page 7
`Walmart Inc. v. Caravan Canopy Intl., Inc.
`IPR2020-01026
`
`
`
`Transcript of Dr. Richard Klopp
`Conducted on July 30, 2021
`
`7
`
`it's Guillermo Baeza, who is senior counsel at
`Lowe's Home Centers LLC.
`
` EXAMINATION
`BY MR. KELLAR:
` Q. All right. Dr. Klopp, would you please
`state your full name for the record?
` A. Yes. Richard William Klopp, K-L-O-P-P.
` Q. Is it okay if you refer to you as
`Dr. Klopp for this proceeding?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Have you ever been deposed before?
` A. Yes, I have.
` Q. When was the last time you were deposed?
` A. Several months ago. I'm trying to think.
`I think it's on the disclosure testimony record
`probably submitted in this matter, but it was a
`few months ago.
` Q. Have you ever been deposed in a patent
`matter, infringement or invalidity?
` A. Yes.
` Q. And when was the last time you were
`deposed in a patent matter?
` A. I think the last deposition I did had
`patent -- it was tangentially related to patent
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`CCI Ex. 2033 – Page 8
`Walmart Inc. v. Caravan Canopy Intl., Inc.
`IPR2020-01026
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`Transcript of Dr. Richard Klopp
`Conducted on July 30, 2021
`
`8
`
`stuff; mostly it was trade secret.
` Q. Okay. Thank you. I'm going to go over
`some ground rules. Sounds like you're well
`versed, so I'll keep it brief. Is there anything
`impacting your ability to testify truthfully here
`today?
` A. No.
` Q. Unless you ask for clarification, I'll
`assume you understand my questions.
` Is that okay?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Do you understand that this deposition in
`combination with your declaration testimony
`submitted forms your formal testimony in this IPR
`proceeding?
` A. I do.
` Q. As you well know, from time to time, your
`counsel may object. You do still need to answer
`the question that's pending unless your counsel
`explicitly instructs you not to answer on the
`basis of privilege.
` Do you understand?
` A. Yes, I do.
` Q. And under the rules of the USPTO and the
`patent trial and appeal board, you are not
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`CCI Ex. 2033 – Page 9
`Walmart Inc. v. Caravan Canopy Intl., Inc.
`IPR2020-01026
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`Transcript of Dr. Richard Klopp
`Conducted on July 30, 2021
`
`9
`
`permitted to discuss the substance of your
`testimony during breaks with counsel.
` Do you understand?
` A. Yes, I do.
` Q. And I will endeavor to take a break
`approximately every hour or so. Feel free to let
`me know if you need a break at any time. I just
`ask that if there is any pending question, you
`answer the question before we take a break.
` Is that fair?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Do you have any documents with you today?
` A. Yes, I do.
` Q. What documents do you have in your
`possession near you today?
` A. Okay. Well, as you can see, I'm in my
`home office which is full of documents, plus I
`have print outs of the '040 patent, my
`declarations, Mr. Rake's declarations, prior art
`patents. I think there is a couple other backup
`references that I've printed out.
` Q. Okay. And how did you prepare for your
`deposition today?
` A. I went back and reread my declarations
`and then I had meetings with counsel yesterday
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`CCI Ex. 2033 – Page 10
`Walmart Inc. v. Caravan Canopy Intl., Inc.
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`Transcript of Dr. Richard Klopp
`Conducted on July 30, 2021
`
`10
`
`to -- to just go over the -- the declarations,
`then the prior art, and so on.
` Q. Did you meet with anyone other than your
`attorneys to prepare for your testimony today?
` A. Well, my colleague, Andy Smith, was on
`the preparation meeting call yesterday, at least
`for part of it.
` Q. Is he with Exponent?
` A. He is.
` Q. Did you conduct any outside research to
`prepare for your testimony here today?
` A. Well, I mean, the -- any outside research
`is reflected in my declarations in terms of
`looking up prior art to backpacking tents and the
`water flow analysis and things like that, so I
`guess the answer is yes.
` Q. But that would be reflected in the
`materials considered portion of your declarations?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Correct?
` So you didn't conduct any outside
`research after submitting your declarations?
` A. Well, in wandering around, I now have a
`keen eye for canopy tents, so I mean, I've
`definitely looked at those in the meantime.
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`CCI Ex. 2033 – Page 11
`Walmart Inc. v. Caravan Canopy Intl., Inc.
`IPR2020-01026
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`Transcript of Dr. Richard Klopp
`Conducted on July 30, 2021
`
`11
`
` Q. So you've done some in-person research
`you would say?
` A. Informal in-person research, yes.
` Q. Is there any part of your declaration
`testimony submitted in this matter that you would
`like to change before we get started?
` A. No.
` Q. And from time to time, I will be
`referring to exhibits in this proceeding. As you
`know, there is a number of them. We have a
`technician on from Planet Depos who will be
`pulling up exhibits and sharing them with us so we
`can go through them together on screen. If at any
`time I ask a question and you would like to refer
`to a specific document or exhibit, please let me
`know and we can consider having that pulled up for
`your reference.
` Do you understand?
` A. Yes.
` MR. KELLAR: Lawrence, can you pull up
`Exhibit 1025, please.
` DEPOSITION TECHNICIAN: 1025. Just one
`moment.
` (Exhibit 1025 previously marked.)
` MR. KELLAR: And, Lawrence, will you give
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`CCI Ex. 2033 – Page 12
`Walmart Inc. v. Caravan Canopy Intl., Inc.
`IPR2020-01026
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`Transcript of Dr. Richard Klopp
`Conducted on July 30, 2021
`
`12
`
`control of this document to Dr. Klopp, please.
` DEPOSITION TECHNICIAN: Dr. Klopp, you
`now have control.
`BY MR. KELLAR:
` Q. Dr. Klopp, would you please confirm you
`have control of the document?
` A. Looks like to be the case, yes.
` Q. Okay. And what is this document that
`we're looking at, referred to as 1025?
` A. This appears to be my second declaration.
` Q. And will you turn to page -- and let me
`step back.
` I'm going refer to page numbers from time
`to time. Where possible, I'm referring to the
`document page number, so, like, you have page 1 of
`163. So, for example, would you turn to page 161
`of Exhibit 1025, please?
` A. Okay.
` Q. And what is shown in appendix B?
` A. So, wait. You want paper page 159 or
`exhibit 1025, page 161?
` Q. Page 161 of the exhibit. Thank you.
`You're correct. So I'll refer to PDF pages so
`you're able to type in the number.
` A. Got you.
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`CCI Ex. 2033 – Page 13
`Walmart Inc. v. Caravan Canopy Intl., Inc.
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`Transcript of Dr. Richard Klopp
`Conducted on July 30, 2021
`
`13
`
` Q. It's not easy with the conflicting page
`numbers.
` And what is shown in appendix B?
` A. So this is the list of additional
`materials considered in developing the second
`declaration.
` Q. Okay. And did you review US patent
`5701923, which is by an inventor named Losi, in
`preparing your second declaration?
` A. Yes.
` Q. It was submitted as Exhibit 2015 in this
`proceeding.
` A. Yeah, I've got it.
` Q. That was a document you considered in
`preparing your second declaration?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Are you aware that patent owner submitted
`its' own translation of the Yang reference
`Exhibit 2030 in this proceeding?
` A. I'm vaguely aware of that.
` Q. Did you review Exhibit 2030 in preparing
`your second declaration?
` A. I -- I think so. I vaguely recall there
`was some controversy about some translation that,
`you know, one -- it's a he-said-she-said and I'm
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`CCI Ex. 2033 – Page 14
`Walmart Inc. v. Caravan Canopy Intl., Inc.
`IPR2020-01026
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`
`Transcript of Dr. Richard Klopp
`Conducted on July 30, 2021
`
`14
`
`not a translator, so I'm not able to resolve it
`personally.
` Q. So you didn't meaningfully consider
`Exhibit 2030 in preparing your second declaration?
` MR. REED: Objection, form.
` THE WITNESS: I would say I did
`meaningfully consider it.
`BY MR. KELLAR:
` Q. Is that reflected in your materials
`considered in your second declaration?
` A. I don't know whether it's listed. If
`it's not listed, then that's unintentional.
` MR. KELLAR: Lawrence, can you pull up
`Exhibit 2030, please.
` DEPOSITION TECHNICIAN: 2030. Just a
`moment.
` (Exhibit 2030 previously marked.)
` MR. KELLAR: And, Lawrence, can you
`side-by-side Exhibit 2030 with Exhibit 1004,
`please.
` DEPOSITION TECHNICIAN: I can. It will
`take a few seconds. Please standby.
` (Exhibit 1004 previously marked.)
` MR. KELLAR: Lawrence, would you please
`give Dr. Klopp control of the side-by-side
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`CCI Ex. 2033 – Page 15
`Walmart Inc. v. Caravan Canopy Intl., Inc.
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`Transcript of Dr. Richard Klopp
`Conducted on July 30, 2021
`
`15
`
`exhibits.
` DEPOSITION TECHNICIAN: You have control,
`Dr. Klopp.
`BY MR. KELLAR:
` Q. Dr. Klopp, you testified just a few
`minutes ago that you did review and consider
`Exhibit 2030 in preparing for your -- in preparing
`your second declaration; is that correct?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Okay. And the exhibit on the left is
`Exhibit 2030; correct?
` A. Apparently, yes.
` Q. Okay. Can you go to page 7 of
`Exhibit 2030, please. And since we have them both
`on the screen, can you go to page 6 of
`Exhibit 1004, please.
` Thank you. Can you read, in
`Exhibit 2030, the last sentence of the first
`paragraph, please.
` A. So according to this translator, the
`Japanese said "the center of the roof does not
`require any supporting members whatsoever, forming
`one gentle slope that does not run the risk of
`drooping, twisting, sagging, or forming any
`puddles from rain."
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`CCI Ex. 2033 – Page 16
`Walmart Inc. v. Caravan Canopy Intl., Inc.
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`Transcript of Dr. Richard Klopp
`Conducted on July 30, 2021
`
`16
`
` Q. Okay. And can you read the -- starting
`on -- I'm looking at Exhibit 1004 in the third
`line where it starts "thus it is configured." Can
`you read from there to the end of the third
`paragraph, please?
` A. Yes. So this other Japanese translator
`interpreted the Japanese -- at least part of it --
`to say: "Thus it is configured to be capable of
`forming a smooth, sloped body without requiring
`support from any support in the center of the
`roof, and it is configured such that there is no
`risk whatsoever of the smooth sloped roof
`collapsing, bending, or leaking rainwater when
`raining and..."
` Q. And is it relevant to you that one
`translation mentions leaking rainwater and the
`other translation does not mention leaking
`rainwater?
` MR. REED: Objection, form.
` THE WITNESS: Well, I guess with any tent
`meant to be out in the weather, there is a risk of
`leaking rainwater, so whether one says leaking
`rainwater and the other says forming puddles, I
`mean it's -- they're both translations and so I
`don't -- I'm not a translator so I don't know
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`Walmart Inc. v. Caravan Canopy Intl., Inc.
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`Transcript of Dr. Richard Klopp
`Conducted on July 30, 2021
`
`17
`
`who's right, but I do know that tents in the rain
`can leak rain.
`BY MR. KELLER:
` Q. How does a tent leak rain?
` MR. REED: Objection to form.
` THE WITNESS: Well, there is any number
`of ways. I mean, you can have a cloth that is not
`entirely waterproof. You can have a hole in your
`tent. You could have a seam in your tent that
`isn't sealed. So any number of ways.
`BY MR. KELLER:
` Q. But you didn't find this difference in
`translation relevant enough to cite to
`Exhibit 2030 in your second declaration; is that
`correct?
` A. That is correct, yes.
` Q. And can you please move to page 8 of
`Exhibit 2030 and page 4 of Exhibit 1004.
` And same exercise again. Can you please
`read bullet point number 8 in Exhibit 2030.
` A. Sure. So the -- the one translator
`came -- translated the Japanese number 8 as: "The
`roof of the tent body is pushed up without the
`need for any type of pillar support in the center,
`increasing the activity space while in use."
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`CCI Ex. 2033 – Page 18
`Walmart Inc. v. Caravan Canopy Intl., Inc.
`IPR2020-01026
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`
`
`Transcript of Dr. Richard Klopp
`Conducted on July 30, 2021
`
`18
`
` Q. And what do you understand bullet point 8
`in Exhibit 2030 to mean?
` MR. REED: Objection, form.
` THE WITNESS: I understand it to mean a
`post or a column that reaches to the ground is
`what they're talking about because that would be a
`pillar support in the center that would reduce the
`activity space. It would be in the way in the
`main body of the tent.
`BY MR. KELLAR:
` Q. So by removing that center pillar
`support, it increases the activity space while in
`use; is that your understanding?
` MR. REED: Objection.
` THE WITNESS: Yeah. I mean, think of a
`circus tent with a big pole right in the middle.
`You cannot cross the middle without running into
`that pole. So that's what they're talking about,
`as I understand it, is a pillar going to the
`ground that occupies space in the main body of the
`tent.
` MR. KELLAR: And, Dr. Klopp, from time to
`time, your counsel may object, so let's just try
`to make sure he has his objections in before you
`state your answer.
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`CCI Ex. 2033 – Page 19
`Walmart Inc. v. Caravan Canopy Intl., Inc.
`IPR2020-01026
`
`
`
`Transcript of Dr. Richard Klopp
`Conducted on July 30, 2021
`
`19
`
` THE WITNESS: Sure.
` MR. REED: Thanks, Kyle.
` MR. KELLAR: Lawrence, can you close
`Exhibit 2030, please. And can you side-by-side
`Exhibit 1004 with Exhibit 1001, please.
` (Exhibit 1001 previously marked.)
` MR. KELLAR: And, again, can you give
`Dr. Klopp control, please.
`BY MR. KELLAR:
` Q. Dr. Klopp, can you confirm that you have
`control of Exhibit 1001 and Exhibit 1004?
` A. Okay. Confirmed.
` Q. Okay. In Exhibit 1001, can you please
`turn to claim 1 and can you read the second
`paragraph or the first line under "a collapsable
`tent frame comprising" in Exhibit 1001, please?
` A. So you want "a plurality" or "a center
`pole"?
` Q. A center pole, sorry.
` A. Okay. A -- so what is claimed is "a
`collapsible tent frame comprising a center pole
`constructed for stretching and sustaining a tent's
`roof when a tent is pitched with the tent frame."
` Q. What is your understanding of stretching
`and sustaining a tent's roof when a tent is
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`CCI Ex. 2033 – Page 20
`Walmart Inc. v. Caravan Canopy Intl., Inc.
`IPR2020-01026
`
`
`
`Transcript of Dr. Richard Klopp
`Conducted on July 30, 2021
`
`20
`
`pitched with the tent frame in the context of the
`'040 patent?
` MR. REED: Objection. Form.
` THE WITNESS: My understanding is that
`this is claiming a tent frame and it's got --
`it's -- includes, among other things, a center
`pole. Center pole is something near the center of
`the tent. That center pole is constructed for --
`in other words, it's capable of stretching and
`sustaining the tent's roof while the -- when the
`tent, that is, a cover is pitched with the tent
`frame. So the center pole is capable of holding
`up, that's what sustaining is, the plain and
`ordinary meaning of the tent cover. And in the
`context of the patent, the plain and ordinary
`meaning of stretching is simply extending. So
`it's extending the tent cover, getting it
`straightened out, so to speak.
`BY MR. KELLER:
` Q. Okay. Is the plain and ordinary meaning
`of stretching -- let me step back.
` When I say the '040 patent, do you
`understand me to be referring to Exhibit 1001?
` A. Yes.
` Q. And that's the patent at issue in this
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`CCI Ex. 2033 – Page 21
`Walmart Inc. v. Caravan Canopy Intl., Inc.
`IPR2020-01026
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`
`
`Transcript of Dr. Richard Klopp
`Conducted on July 30, 2021
`
`21
`
`proceeding?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Is the plain and ordinary meaning of the
`term stretching in claim 1 of the '040 patent
`heightening, in your opinion?
` A. So to the extent that heightening is part
`of extending the tent cover, yes.
` Q. So in your opinion, heightening and
`stretching are synonymous with each other in the
`context of the '040 patent?
` A. When you unfold and extend the tent frame
`that's claimed, the center pole rises up, and
`that's how it does the -- the stretching and
`sustaining. And so by rising up, obviously, it's
`heightening.
` Q. Do the side poles heighten the tent roof?
` MR. REED: Objection, form.
` THE WITNESS: They can if you, for
`example, extend the lower -- if it has the lower
`extendible legs, sure. It elevates the whole
`thing when you lower those legs.
`BY MR. KELLER:
` Q. So you can heighten the tent's roof by
`extending the side poles of the '040 patent?
` MR. REED: Objection. Form.
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`CCI Ex. 2033 – Page 22
`Walmart Inc. v. Caravan Canopy Intl., Inc.
`IPR2020-01026
`
`
`
`Transcript of Dr. Richard Klopp
`Conducted on July 30, 2021
`
`22
`
` THE WITNESS: If you think about it,
`the -- I mean, it's pretty obvious to me if those
`leg extensions that -- they're not claimed, but
`they're evident in the figures and they're highly
`evident in the prior art, when you extend those
`extendible side poles, the whole tent is
`heightened. There is no doubt about that,
`assuming the tent is upright on the ground.
`BY MR. KELLER:
` Q. Can you go to Figure 4 of Exhibit 1001,
`please.
` A. Okay.
` Q. So if, hypothetically, the side poles
`which -- do you understand the side poles to be
`indicated by 10 in Figure 4 of the '040 patent?
` A. Yes.
` Q. So, hypothetically, if the side poles 10
`were removed, the tent's roof would not be as
`heightened as before; correct?
` MR. REED: Object the form.
` THE WITNESS: Well, the -- there would be
`a whole lot more that would go wrong, but indeed
`the -- the -- you know, whatever is left of the
`tent without the side poles would be lower and
`laying on the ground, yes.
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`CCI Ex. 2033 – Page 23
`Walmart Inc. v. Caravan Canopy Intl., Inc.
`IPR2020-01026
`
`
`
`Transcript of Dr. Richard Klopp
`Conducted on July 30, 2021
`
`23
`
`BY MR. KELLAR:
` Q. Do the side poles 10 hold up the tent's
`roof?
` A. Well, sure, they hold up essentially the
`whole roof structure -- if it has a cover on it,
`it holds -- they hold that up as well.
` Q. Are you aware that the District Court --
`well, let me step back.
` Are you aware that there is an underlying
`litigation between the parties in this proceeding
`at a District Court in California?
` A. I can't speak to where the court is, but
`I'm aware of a District Court litigation.
` Q. And are you aware that the District Court
`issued a claim construction order in the
`underlying litigation?
` A. I'm not sure.
` Q. Okay.
` MR. KELLAR: Lawrence, can you pull up
`Exhibit 1018, please.
` (Exhibit 1018 previously marked.)
` THE WITNESS: Just so you know, it's not
`coming up for me in the browser link, I'm not sure
`why.
` DEPOSITION TECHNICIAN: When you click on
`
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`CCI Ex. 2033 – Page 24
`Walmart Inc. v. Caravan Canopy Intl., Inc.
`IPR2020-01026
`
`
`
`Transcript of Dr. Richard Klopp
`Conducted on July 30, 2021
`
`24
`
`the link it's not opening?
` THE WITNESS: It says, "Hmm, looks like
`this file doesn't have a preview we can show you."
`I guess that's a side point for now.
`BY MR. KELLAR:
` Q. Dr. Klopp, do you have control of
`Exhibit 1018 on the screen?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Okay. And did you review Exhibit 1018 in
`preparing your second declaration?
` A. Not that I recall.
` Q. Okay. We can close out of Exhibit 1018.
`Going back to -- Lawrence, if you can go back to
`Exhibit 1001, please.
` DEPOSITION TECHNICIAN: 1001. Just one
`moment.
`BY MR. KELLER:
` Q. Dr. Klopp, do you see Figure 4 of
`Exhibit 1001 on your screen?
` A. About half of it.
` Q. Well, hopefully you have control,
`Dr. Klopp, and you can zoom out as you see fit.
`Let me know if you don't have control.
` DEPOSITION TECHNICIAN: You have control,
`Dr. Klopp.
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`CCI Ex. 2033 – Page 25
`Walmart Inc. v. Caravan Canopy Intl., Inc.
`IPR2020-01026
`
`
`
`Transcript of Dr. Richard Klopp
`Conducted on July 30, 2021
`
`25
`
` THE WITNESS: Okay.
`BY MR. KELLAR:
` Q. Dr. Klopp, can you envision a center pole
`that doesn't heighten the tent's roof?
` A. Well --
` MR. REED: Objection to form.
` THE WITNESS: If there is no canvas
`present, I can envision a -- a center pole that
`doesn't heighten a canvas, but if there is a -- if
`the center pole is, as everyone seems to agree, is
`a pole-like thing in the center that extends above
`the center pole support ribs, then naturally it's
`going to heighten a canvas placed on that tent as
`compared to if you took away, say, this Item 50.
`BY MR. KELLER:
` Q. And the Item 50 you referred to is the
`center pole in Figure 4; is that correct?
` A. Correct.
` Q. And can you envision a center pole that
`doesn't extend the canopy in the context of
`the '040 patent?
` MR. REED: Objection to form.
` THE WITNESS: So we're doing a thought
`experiment of the -- this structure here without
`Item 50, and then you introduce Item 50, it pushes
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`CCI Ex. 2033 – Page 26
`Walmart Inc. v. Caravan Canopy Intl., Inc.
`IPR2020-01026
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`
`
`Transcript of Dr. Richard Klopp
`Conducted on July 30, 2021
`
`26
`
`up the canvas and extends it compared to what it
`would have been at. I'm having a difficult time
`thinking of a center pole that would be -- that
`would be in the center, would be pole-like, and
`would extend above the center pole ribs that would
`not -- I mean, I don't see how it's possible for a
`structure in the center, above the center pole
`ribs, not to elevate the tent cover.
`BY MR. KELLER:
` Q. So in your opinion, every center pole
`would heighten and hold up a tent's roof?
` MR. REED: Objection.
` THE WITNESS: Obviously I haven't noodled
`on this. I mean, "every" is an absolute, but
`everything reasonable I can think of that is a
`structure that is taller than it is wide that is
`situated in the center of the tent and extends
`above the center pole ribs would, by its nature,
`extend and sustain the tent cover more than it
`would be if that structure were taken away.
` MR. KELLAR: Lawrence, can we go to
`Exhibit 1025, please. And we're going to be
`flipping back and forth between exhibits, if we
`could leave them up in tabs that would be helpful.
` DEPOSITION TECHNICIAN: Exhibit 1025 is
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`CCI Ex. 2033 – Page 27
`Walmart Inc. v. Caravan Canopy Intl., Inc.
`IPR2020-01026
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`
`
`Transcript of Dr. Richard Klopp
`Conducted on July 30, 2021
`
`27
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`up.
` MR. KELLAR: I don't believe so. I'm
`still looking at Exhibit 1001.
` DEPOSITION TECHNICIAN: Hold on one
`second.
` Do you see it now?
` THE WITNESS: I do.
`BY MR. KELLAR:
` Q. Dr. Klopp, can you go to page 16 of
`Exhibit 1025, please. And the second full
`sentence at the top, "if one imagines;" can you
`read that sentence, please?
` A. That is on page 16 of the PDF, page 14 of
`the paper. It's in paragraph 33.
` "If one imagines removing the center
`pole, obviously the tent cover would not be as
`well heightened or as well held up; that is, no
`longer be stretched straight nor sustained in its
`raised position."
` Q. What do you mean by "stretched straight"?
` A. Extended straight. Extended to a less --
`like a folded or wrinkly or non-smooth c
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