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`·1· · · · · · · · ·DR. MAHDI SHAHBAKHTI
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`·2· · ·UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
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`·3· · ·BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
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`·4
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`·5· · · · · · ____________________________
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`·6· ·BAYERISCHE MOTOREN WERKE AKTIENGESELLSCHAFT &
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`·7· · · · · · BMW OF NORTH AMERICA, LLC,
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`·8· · · · · · · · · · ·Petitioner
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`·9· · · · · · · · · · · · ·v.
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`10· · · ·PAICE LLC & THE ABELL FOUNDATION, INC.
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`11· · · · · · · · · · Patent Owner
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`12· · · · · ·_____________________________
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`13· · · · · · · ·Case No. IPR2020-00994
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`14· · · · · · · · Patent No. 7,104,347
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`15· · · · · ·_____________________________
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`16
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`17
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`18· · · · ·DEPOSITION OF DR. MAHDI SHAHBAKHTI
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`19· · · · ·TAKEN REMOTELY BY VIDEOCONFERENCE
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`20· · · · · · · · · · May 6, 2021
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`22
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`23
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`24· · ·Reported by:· Mary Ann Payonk
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`25· · ·Job No. 193241
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`·1· · · · · · · · ·DR. MAHDI SHAHBAKHTI
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`·2· · ·UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
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`·3· · ·BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
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`·4
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`·5· · · · · · ____________________________
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`·6· ·BAYERISCHE MOTOREN WERKE AKTIENGESELLSCHAFT &
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`·7· · · · · · BMW OF NORTH AMERICA, LLC,
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`·8· · · · · · · · · · ·Petitioner
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`·9· · · · · · · · · · · · ·v.
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`10· · · ·PAICE LLC & THE ABELL FOUNDATION, INC.
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`11· · · · · · · · · · Patent Owner
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`12· · · · · ·_____________________________
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`13· · · · · · · ·Case No. IPR2020-00994
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`14· · · · · · · · Patent No. 7,104,347
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`15· · · · · ·_____________________________
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`16
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`17
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`18· · · · ·DEPOSITION OF DR. MAHDI SHAHBAKHTI
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`19· · · · ·TAKEN REMOTELY BY VIDEOCONFERENCE
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`20· · · · · · · · · · May 6, 2021
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`21
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`22
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`23
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`24· · ·Reported by:· Mary Ann Payonk
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`25· · ·Job No. 193241
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`·1· · · · · · · ·DR. MAHDI SHAHBAKHTI
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`Page 2
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`·2
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`·3
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`·4
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`·5· · · · · · · · · · · ·May 6, 2021
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`·6· · · · · · · · · · · ·9:00 a.m. (Mountain)
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`·7
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`·8· · · · · Deposition of DR. MAHDI SHAHBAKHTI taken
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`·9· ·remotely by videoconference pursuant to Notice
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`10· ·and agreement of counsel, stenographically
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`11· ·reported by Mary Ann Payonk, Shorthand Reporter
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`12· ·and Notary Public, California CSR No. 13431.
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`13· · · · · All attorneys participating in this
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`14· ·deposition acknowledge that in compliance with
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`15· ·public health orders, the reporter is not
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`16· ·physically present in the deposition room and
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`17· ·will be reporting remotely; further, that in
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`18· ·lieu of an oath administered in person, the
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`19· ·witness will verbally declare their testimony
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`20· ·in this matter under penalty of perjury.
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`·1· · · · · · · ·DR. MAHDI SHAHBAKHTI
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`·2· ·APPEARANCES:
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`·3· ·ON BEHALF OF PETITIONER:
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`·4· · · · · BY: VINCENT GALLUZZO, ESQ.
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`·5· · · · · · · SCOTT BITTMAN, ESQ
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`·6· · · · · CROWELL & MORING
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`·7· · · · · 1001 Pennsylvania Avenue NW
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`·8· · · · · Washington, DC 20004
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`·9
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`10· ·ON BEHALF OF PATENT OWNER and THE WITNESS:
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`11· · · · · BY: BRIAN LIVEDALEN, ESQ.
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`12· · · · · FISH & RICHARDSON
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`13· · · · · 1000 Maine Avenue, SW
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`14· · · · · Washington, DC 20004
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`15
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`16· ·ALSO ATTENDING:
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`17· · · · · Rodolfo Duran, Legal Video Specialist
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`18
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`19
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`·1· · · · · DR. MAHDI SHAHBAKHTI
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`·2· · · · THE VIDEOGRAPHER:· Good morning,
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`·3· ·counselors.· My name is Rodolfo Duran.
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`·4· ·I'm the legal videographer in
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`·5· ·association with TSG Reporting, Inc.
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`·6· · · · Due to the severity of COVID-19 and
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`·7· ·following the practices of social
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`·8· ·distancing, I will not be in the same
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`·9· ·room with the witness; instead, I will
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`10· ·record this remotely.
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`11· · · · The court reporter, Mary Ann
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`12· ·Payonk, also will not be in the same
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`13· ·room and will swear in the witness
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`14· ·remotely.
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`15· · · · Do all parties stipulate to the
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`16· ·validity of this video recording, the
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`17· ·swearing in of the witness, and that it
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`18· ·will be admissible in the courtroom as
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`19· ·if it had been taken following Rule 30
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`20· ·of the Federal Rules of Civil Procedures
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`21· ·and the state's rules where this case is
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`22· ·pending?
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`23· · · · MR. GALLUZZO:· Yes.
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`24· · · · MR. LIVEDALEN:· Yes, I agree for
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`25· ·patent owners.
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`·1· · · · · DR. MAHDI SHAHBAKHTI
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`·2· · · · MR. GALLUZZO:· And agree for
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`·3· ·petitioners.
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`·4· · · · THE VIDEOGRAPHER:· Thank you.
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`·5· · · · This is the start of media labeled
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`·6· ·number 1 of the remote video-recorded
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`·7· ·deposition of Dr. Mahdi Shahbakhti in
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`·8· ·the matter of Bayerische Motoren Werke
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`·9· ·Aktiengesellschaft and BMW of North
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`10· ·America LLC versus Paice LLC, et al.
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`11· · · · Today is May 6, 2021.· The time is
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`12· ·9:01 Mountain Daylight Time, and we're
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`13· ·on the record.
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`14· · · · Will counsel please introduce
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`15· ·yourselves.
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`16· · · · MR. GALLUZZO:· Vince Galluzzo from
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`17· ·the law firm of Crowell & Moring, and I
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`18· ·am here on behalf of petitioners, BMW.
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`19· ·With me is my colleague, Scott Bittman.
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`20· · · · MR. LIVEDALEN:· Brian Livedalen
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`21· ·from the law firm of Fish & Richardson
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`22· ·representing patent owners Paice and
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`23· ·Abell and the witness.
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`25
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`·1· · · · · · · ·DR. MAHDI SHAHBAKHTI
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`·2· ·DR. MAHDI SHAHBAKHTI,
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`·3· · · · · called as a witness, having been duly
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`·4· · · · · sworn, was examined and testified as
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`Page 6
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`·5· · · · · follows:
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`·6· · · · · · · · · EXAMINATION
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`·7· ·BY MR. GALLUZZO:
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`·8· · · · Q.· ·Good morning, Dr. Shahbakhti.
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`·9· · · · A.· ·Good morning.
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`10· · · · Q.· ·Could you please state your full name
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`11· ·for the record.
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`12· · · · A.· ·Mahdi Shahbakhti.
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`13· · · · Q.· ·Have you given a deposition before?
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`14· · · · A.· ·Yes.
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`15· · · · Q.· ·Roughly how many times?
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`16· · · · A.· ·Oh, several times.· Do you need the
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`17· ·exact number?
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`18· · · · Q.· ·No, no, that's fine.· Have you given
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`19· ·a remote deposition before?
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`20· · · · A.· ·Yes.
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`21· · · · Q.· ·Okay.· So even though you do have
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`22· ·some experience with depositions and with
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`23· ·remote depositions, I'm still going to go over
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`24· ·some of the ground rules, if that's okay.
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`25· · · · A.· ·Sure.· Go ahead, please.
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`·1· · · · · · · ·DR. MAHDI SHAHBAKHTI
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`·2· · · · Q.· ·So even though we are on a
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`·3· ·videoconference, you understand that you're
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`·4· ·giving testimony here today as if we were in
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`·5· ·court.· Correct?
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`·6· · · · A.· ·That is correct.
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`·7· · · · Q.· ·And since we are remote as opposed to
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`·8· ·in the same room as normal, where are you right
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`·9· ·now?
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`10· · · · A.· ·I'm in my office in the basement of
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`11· ·my house.
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`12· · · · Q.· ·And that's where exactly?
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`13· · · · A.· ·Edmonton, Alberta.
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`14· · · · Q.· ·Is anyone in the room with you?
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`15· · · · A.· ·No.
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`16· · · · Q.· ·Did you bring anything with you to
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`17· ·the deposition today?
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`18· · · · A.· ·No, I don't have anything.
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`19· · · · Q.· ·What applications do you currently
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`20· ·have open on your computer?
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`21· · · · A.· ·Zoom is open.
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`22· · · · Q.· ·Can you confirm that Zoom is the only
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`23· ·application you have open?
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`24· · · · A.· ·I have the Internet Explorer, the one
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`25· ·that I opened the Zoom.· I can close the
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`·1· · · · · · · ·DR. MAHDI SHAHBAKHTI
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`·2· ·Internet Explorer if you want and --
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`·3· · · · Q.· ·If you wouldn't mind, that would be
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`·4· ·fine.
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`·5· · · · A.· ·Sure.· I closed it just now.· Other
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`·6· ·than this, yeah, that's all I have.· Nothing
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`·7· ·other than the things related to the Zoom,
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`·8· ·that's all.
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`·9· · · · Q.· ·Do you have any other laptops,
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`10· ·tablets, or phones with you?
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`11· · · · A.· ·I don't have any other laptop here.
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`12· ·My phone is next to me, but I made it to
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`13· ·silent.
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`14· · · · Q.· ·Just to confirm, you do not plan on
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`15· ·using that phone while you testify, right?
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`16· · · · A.· ·Correct.· No, I will not use it.
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`17· · · · Q.· ·And you understand that you can't be
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`18· ·in communication with anyone else while you're
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`19· ·testifying.· Is that right?
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`20· · · · A.· ·That is correct.
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`21· · · · Q.· ·So back to some of the more normal
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`22· ·ground rules.· If I ask you a question that you
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`23· ·don't understand, please do let me know and I
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`24· ·will try to clarify.· Does that make sense?
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`25· · · · A.· ·Sure.· I appreciate that.
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`·1· · · · · · · ·DR. MAHDI SHAHBAKHTI
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`·2· · · · Q.· ·And if you do not ask me to clarify,
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`·3· ·I will assume you understand the question as
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`·4· ·asked.· Is that okay with you?
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`·5· · · · A.· ·I will clarify if I don't understand
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`·6· ·a question, sure.
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`·7· · · · Q.· ·So if you don't ask me to clarify,
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`·8· ·can I assume that you understood the question
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`·9· ·as asked?
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`10· · · · A.· ·That is fair, sure.
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`11· · · · Q.· ·If you need to take a break, please
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`12· ·let me know.· We can take a break any time you
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`13· ·would like.· The only thing I ask is if there's
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`14· ·a question pending that you answer the question
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`15· ·before we go on break.· Is that fair?
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`16· · · · A.· ·Yes, that's fair.
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`17· · · · Q.· ·Is there any reason that you can't
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`18· ·give full truthful and accurate testimony here
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`19· ·today?
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`20· · · · A.· ·No.
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`21· · · · Q.· ·What did you do to prepare for
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`22· ·today's deposition?
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`23· · · · · · ·MR. LIVEDALEN:· I'd like to caution
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`24· · · · the witness not to reveal the substance
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`25· · · · of any attorney-client privileged
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`·1· · · · · · · ·DR. MAHDI SHAHBAKHTI
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`·2· · · · communications.
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`·3· · · · A.· ·I reviewed my declaration, and then I
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`·4· ·could also get enough time to briefly look at
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`·5· ·some of the key patent items.
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`·6· · · · Q.· ·Did you do that on your own?
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`·7· · · · A.· ·I did these on my own.· I also had
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`·8· ·preparation also meeting with the counsel.
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`·9· · · · Q.· ·Mr. Livedalen?
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`10· · · · A.· ·Yes.
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`11· · · · Q.· ·Anybody else?
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`12· · · · A.· ·And also Mr. Tim.· I don't know his
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`13· ·last name.
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`14· · · · Q.· ·I believe it's Riffe.
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`15· · · · A.· ·Yes, that should be correct.
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`16· · · · · · ·MR. LIVEDALEN:· Just for the record
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`17· · · · Tim Riffe is the name.
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`18· · · · · · ·MR. GALLUZZO:· Apologies.· Tim
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`19· · · · Riffe.
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`20· ·BY MR. GALLUZZO:
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`21· · · · Q.· ·And when you refer to having reviewed
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`22· ·your declaration, did you review just one
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`23· ·declaration or was it more than one?
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`24· · · · A.· ·Just one declaration.
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`25· · · · (Exhibit No. 2016, previously marked, was
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`·1· · · · · · · ·DR. MAHDI SHAHBAKHTI
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`·2· · · · referenced and indexed.)
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`·3· ·BY MR. GALLUZZO:
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`·4· · · · Q.· ·And is that the declaration that you
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`·5· ·submitted as Exhibit 2016 in this case,
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`·6· ·IPR2020-00994?
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`·7· · · · A.· ·Just to be accurate, not knowing the
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`·8· ·number, so previously they told me I can have
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`·9· ·the PDF of the declaration.· Should I open it
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`10· ·and then see the number?
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`11· · · · Q.· ·Yeah, so -- well, let's just talk
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`12· ·about that.· I'm okay with you having a PDF of
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`13· ·your declaration.· I can also send you a
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`14· ·version of your declaration.· Which do you
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`15· ·prefer?
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`16· · · · A.· ·I have the PDF of the declaration in
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`17· ·a folder.· I can open it.
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`18· · · · Q.· ·Okay.· So if you could, open that
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`19· ·declaration and state for the record what the
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`20· ·exhibit number at the bottom and the case
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`21· ·number are so we make sure we're looking at the
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`22· ·same thing please.
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`23· · · · A.· ·Sure.· I just opened it.· When you
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`24· ·said exhibit number, I see says Case
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`25· ·IPR2020-00994, Patent 7,104,347.· And then on
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`·1· · · · · · · ·DR. MAHDI SHAHBAKHTI
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`·2· ·the bottom right corner says PAICE2016.
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`·3· · · · Q.· ·Okay, thank you.
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`·4· · · · A.· ·Yeah.
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`·5· · · · Q.· ·Are there any other PDFs that you
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`·6· ·plan on accessing or opening during today's
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`·7· ·deposition?
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`·8· · · · A.· ·I have not put any other PDF in this
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`·9· ·folder.· My understanding was that when you are
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`10· ·asking me questions related to the patent, you
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`11· ·might share the PDFs through the Zoom link.
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`12· · · · Q.· ·Yeah.· And again, since we are all
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`13· ·remote, while I would normally hand you
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`14· ·something, I can send you things through Zoom.
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`15· ·I will ask that if there is anything that you
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`16· ·would like to refer to, please just ask me and
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`17· ·I'll send it to you.· Likewise, if there's
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`18· ·anything else that you open other than this one
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`19· ·PDF, I'd ask that you tell me that as well.· Is
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`20· ·that okay?
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`21· · · · A.· ·Sure.· I will do that.
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`22· · · · Q.· ·During your preparation with counsel,
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`23· ·did counsel show you anything that refreshed
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`24· ·your recollection?
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`25· · · · A.· ·Nothing new.· It was pretty much what
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`·1· · · · · · · ·DR. MAHDI SHAHBAKHTI
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`·2· ·we had when we prepared the declaration.
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`·3· · · · Q.· ·Did you speak to anyone other than
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`·4· ·counsel in preparing for today's deposition?
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`·5· · · · A.· ·No.
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`·6· · · · Q.· ·I'd like to talk about your
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`·7· ·experience a bit.· In September 1998 you were
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`·8· ·in your third year at KNT.· Is that right?
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`·9· · · · A.· ·That is correct.
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`10· · · · Q.· ·So at that point you didn't have a
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`11· ·bachelor's of science, right?
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`12· · · · A.· ·I did not have.
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`13· · · · Q.· ·In fact, you didn't get your
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`14· ·bachelor's degree until two years later in the
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`15· ·year 2000?
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`16· · · · A.· ·That is correct.
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`17· · · · Q.· ·And in September of 1998 you also
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`18· ·didn't have any industry experience.· Correct?
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`19· · · · A.· ·That is correct.
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`20· · · · Q.· ·Dr. Shahbakhti, if you could pull up
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`21· ·that Exhibit 2016, your declaration, for me,
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`22· ·I'd like to -- let me know when you're there.
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`23· · · · A.· ·So Exhibit 2016 is the declaration
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`24· ·filed.· Is that correct?
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`25· · · · Q.· ·Yes.· That's the same PDF we were
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`·1· · · · · · · ·DR. MAHDI SHAHBAKHTI
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`·2· ·referring to earlier.
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`·3· · · · A.· ·Okay, yeah.· Yeah, I have it in front
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`·4· ·of me.
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`·5· · · · Q.· ·Okay.· Are all of your opinions in
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`·6· ·this case in response to BMW's petition set
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`·7· ·forth in this declaration?
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`·8· · · · A.· ·Yes.
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`·9· · · · Q.· ·If you could turn to paragraph 2 for
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`10· ·me, let me know when you're there.
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`11· · · · A.· ·I'm there.
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`12· · · · Q.· ·In this paragraph you list out the
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`13· ·grounds that you are responding to.· Am I
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`14· ·correct in stating that you are only responding
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`15· ·to grounds 1B, 2B, 3A, 3B, 4B, and 4C of BMW's
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`16· ·petition?
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`17· · · · A.· ·That is correct.
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`18· · · · Q.· ·So you don't contest BMW's ground 1A,
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`19· ·for example, right?
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`20· · · · A.· ·No, I'm not contesting any other
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`21· ·grounds other than those listed here.
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`22· · · · Q.· ·Okay.· Just to confirm so we're all
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`23· ·clear, you're not contesting ground 1A, 1C, 2A,
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`24· ·2C, or 4A.· Correct?
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`25· · · · A.· ·That is correct.
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`·1· · · · · · · ·DR. MAHDI SHAHBAKHTI
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`·2· · · · Q.· ·You also don't contest any of the
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`·3· ·arguments that BMW makes in those five grounds.
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`Page 15
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`·4· ·Is that right?
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`·5· · · · A.· ·That is correct.
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`·6· · · · Q.· ·So, for example, you do not contest
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`·7· ·whether a person of skill in the art would have
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`·8· ·been motivated to modify the one-motor hybrid
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`·9· ·vehicle of Severinsky '970 to include a second
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`10· ·motor such as disclosed in Ehsani.· Is that
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`11· ·right?
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`12· · · · A.· ·I did not form any opinions on those
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`13· ·topics.
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`14· · · · Q.· ·Now let's talk about the opinions
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`15· ·that you did form.· And I'd like to talk
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`16· ·structurally about the way you presented them.
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`17· ·Specifically, you combine your analysis or your
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`18· ·opinions on grounds 1B and 2B.· Is that right?
`
`19· · · · A.· ·Correct, yeah.· So when I was trying
`
`20· ·to address the grounds 1B and 2B, then that was
`
`21· ·referring to the Claims 33 and 11.· Then for
`
`22· ·that I look at the materials that were relevant
`
`23· ·to those claims.
`
`24· · · · Q.· ·And you don't provide a substantively
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`25· ·different opinion on ground 2B than you do on
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`·1· · · · · · · ·DR. MAHDI SHAHBAKHTI
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`·2· ·ground 1B.· Is that right?
`
`·3· · · · A.· ·That is correct.
`
`·4· · · · Q.· ·The same is true also for grounds 3A
`
`·5· ·and 3B.· Is that right?
`
`·6· · · · A.· ·That is correct.
`
`·7· · · · Q.· ·And also, your opinions relating to
`
`·8· ·ground 4B are not substantively different than
`
`·9· ·your opinions relating to grounds 1B and 2B.
`
`10· ·Is that right?
`
`11· · · · A.· ·There were also some other paragraphs
`
`12· ·that I also added in addition.· So if you look
`
`13· ·at the declaration on page 114, there are also
`
`14· ·a couple of other paragraphs that I added.
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`15· · · · Q.· ·You will agree with me, though, that
`
`16· ·your opinions related to ground 4B on pages 114
`
`17· ·to 117 refer back a number of times to your
`
`18· ·Section VII(a).· Correct?
`
`19· · · · A.· ·That is correct.
`
`20· · · · Q.· ·So does that mean your opinions on
`
`21· ·ground 4B rely at least in substantial part on
`
`22· ·your opinions related to grounds 1B and 2B?
`
`23· · · · A.· ·That is correct.
`
`24· · · · Q.· ·And while we're at the back of the
`
`25· ·declaration, if you could just flip to page 128
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`·1· · · · · · · ·DR. MAHDI SHAHBAKHTI
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`·2· ·for me.· It's the signature page.
`
`·3· · · · A.· ·I am there.
`
`·4· · · · Q.· ·And just can you confirm for me that
`
`·5· ·that is your signature that you applied on
`
`·6· ·February 11 of this year?
`
`·7· · · · A.· ·Yes, I confirm it.
`
`·8· · · · Q.· ·Let's talk about claim construction
`
`·9· ·in this case.· You're not opining on the
`
`10· ·construction of any claim term, are you?
`
`11· · · · A.· ·Not in this declaration.
`
`12· · · · Q.· ·In this case, IPR2020-00994, you're
`
`13· ·not opining on the construction of any claim
`
`14· ·term, are you?
`
`15· · · · A.· ·No.· I used the declaration -- I used
`
`16· ·the claim -- what is that correct word?· Let's
`
`17· ·see.· I used the claim construction that is
`
`18· ·included in the table on page 34.
`
`19· · · · Q.· ·Just to confirm, when I originally
`
`20· ·asked you about whether you were opining on
`
`21· ·claim construction, I asked about this case,
`
`22· ·and you responded "not in the declaration."
`
`23· ·Are you drawing a distinction between this case
`
`24· ·and your declaration?
`
`25· · · · A.· ·No.· So the claim construction, I use
`
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`·1· · · · · · · ·DR. MAHDI SHAHBAKHTI
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`·2· ·the one that board has utilized.· And those are
`
`Page 18
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`·3· ·reflected in the table on page 34.
`
`·4· · · · Q.· ·So just to confirm, you're not
`
`·5· ·opining that those constructions should be
`
`·6· ·changed or supplemented in any way, right?
`
`·7· · · · A.· ·No, I did not propose any of that.
`
`·8· · · · Q.· ·Looking at your table on page 34 of
`
`·9· ·the claim constructions, I'd like to focus on
`
`10· ·the last one, monitoring patterns of vehicle
`
`11· ·operation over time.
`
`12· · · · · · ·Do you see that claim term?
`
`13· · · · A.· ·Yes, I see the term.
`
`14· · · · Q.· ·And the board's construction next to
`
`15· ·it is monitoring a driver's repeated driving
`
`16· ·operations over time.
`
`17· · · · · · ·Do you see that?
`
`18· · · · A.· ·Yes, I see that.
`
`19· · · · Q.· ·You'd agree with me that the board's
`
`20· ·construction of monitoring patterns of vehicle
`
`21· ·operation over time does not specify an amount
`
`22· ·of time to be considered over time, right?
`
`23· · · · A.· ·It does not mention the amount of the
`
`24· ·time.· It just uses the term "over time."
`
`25· · · · Q.· ·So it could be two weeks?
`
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`·1· · · · · · · ·DR. MAHDI SHAHBAKHTI
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`·2· · · · A.· ·In this term, because the time is not
`
`·3· ·specified, it can be a day, it can be a week,
`
`Page 19
`
`·4· ·it can be a month.
`
`·5· · · · Q.· ·Could it be a second?
`
`·6· · · · · · ·MR. LIVEDALEN:· Objection,
`
`·7· · · · incomplete hypothetical.
`
`·8· · · · A.· ·Considering the dynamics that we have
`
`·9· ·in the vehicles and the driving, it's hard to
`
`10· ·accept like a one second.· But everything need
`
`11· ·to be put into the context of what claims in
`
`12· ·what context of the patent that we are exactly
`
`13· ·talking about.
`
`14· · · · Q.· ·So the phrase "over time," you agree
`
`15· ·with me that it doesn't specify the amount of
`
`16· ·time necessary.· Are you saying now that there
`
`17· ·is some minimum amount of time necessary to
`
`18· ·qualify?
`
`19· · · · · · ·MR. LIVEDALEN:· Objection,
`
`20· · · · misstates previous testimony.
`
`21· · · · A.· ·As I mentioned earlier in here, the
`
`22· ·word "time" has not been specified.· But that
`
`23· ·is my understanding, that when we are looking
`
`24· ·at the term, it needs to be put into the
`
`25· ·context of the -- what claim or what part of
`
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`Page 20
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`·1· · · · · · · ·DR. MAHDI SHAHBAKHTI
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`·2· ·the patents you are talking about.· Then the
`
`·3· ·term "time" will become more clear.
`
`·4· · · · Q.· ·And is there a context that you would
`
`·5· ·put it in that would make it not satisfied by a
`
`·6· ·one-second period of time?
`
`·7· · · · A.· ·It needs to be specific and then
`
`·8· ·going to exactly the context of the patent, and
`
`·9· ·then which claim is specifically.· And then a
`
`10· ·person of ordinary skill in the art is going to
`
`11· ·look at it, that context, and to see if pattern
`
`12· ·for that specific item will make sense or not.
`
`13· · · · Q.· ·Are you proposing that "over time" be
`
`14· ·construed to mean a certain period of time,
`
`15· ·such that there are upper or lower limits on
`
`16· ·it?
`
`17· · · · · · ·MR. LIVEDALEN:· Objection,
`
`18· · · · misstates previous testimony, to the
`
`19· · · · extent it calls for a legal conclusion.
`
`20· · · · A.· ·I'm not.· What all I'm saying is that
`
`21· ·the term need to be put into the context of the
`
`22· ·claim, and then the context of the patent that
`
`23· ·we are talking, and then we interpret it at
`
`24· ·that situation.
`
`25· · · · Q.· ·Okay.· So let's flip to -- do you
`
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`·1· · · · · · · ·DR. MAHDI SHAHBAKHTI
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`·2· ·have the '347 patent with you or do you need me
`
`Page 21
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`·3· ·to send that to you?
`
`·4· · · · A.· ·Please send it to me.
`
`·5· · · · Q.· ·Okay.· I've sent it to you in the
`
`·6· ·chat function.· Let me know when you've
`
`·7· ·received it and had a chance to review.
`
`·8· · · · A.· ·Sure.· I received it.· I'm just
`
`·9· ·downloading it now.· And I have it now open in
`
`10· ·front of myself.
`
`11· · · · · · ·MR. GALLUZZO:· Okay.· If you could
`
`12· · · · flip to Claim 2 of the '347 patent.· For
`
`13· · · · the record, this is Exhibit 1001.
`
`14· · · · (Exhibit No. 1001, previously marked, was
`
`15· · · · referenced and indexed.)
`
`16· · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· I am there, Claim 2.
`
`17· ·BY MR. GALLUZZO:
`
`18· · · · Q.· ·Claim 2 states "the vehicle of
`
`19· ·Claim 1 wherein said controller monitors
`
`20· ·patterns of vehicle operation over time and
`
`21· ·varies said setpoint SP accordingly."
`
`22· · · · · · ·Did I read that correctly?
`
`23· · · · A.· ·Yes.
`
`24· · · · Q.· ·And the phrase that we were
`
`25· ·discussing in the board's construction appears
`
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`·1· · · · · · · ·DR. MAHDI SHAHBAKHTI
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`·2· ·in this Claim 2.· Is that right?
`
`·3· · · · A.· ·That is correct.
`
`·4· · · · Q.· ·Now, in the context of Claim 2 in the
`
`·5· ·context of the board's construction, can the
`
`·6· ·phrase "over time" be satisfied by a one-second
`
`·7· ·time period?
`
`·8· · · · · · ·MR. LIVEDALEN:· Objection,
`
`·9· · · · incomplete hypothetical.· And again, it
`
`10· · · · calls for a legal conclusion.
`
`11· · · · A.· ·Reading from also my declaration, I
`
`12· ·mention that on just the portion of my -- the
`
`13· ·paragraph on page 69, this is referring to the
`
`14· ·time of -- I say the person of ordinary skill
`
`15· ·in the art would have not found it obvious at
`
`16· ·the time of the invention to monitor -- to
`
`17· ·monitors patterns of vehicle operation over
`
`18· ·time and varies the said setpoint accordingly.
`
`19· ·Even that --
`
`20· · · · Q.· ·Doctor?· I'm sorry, Dr. Shahbakhti,
`
`21· ·are you on page 69 or paragraph 69?
`
`22· · · · A.· ·On page 69.· I only read a portion of
`
`23· ·the sentence.
`
`24· · · · Q.· ·Which paragraph number?
`
`25· · · · A.· ·On mine, under the section B, it says
`
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`Page 23
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`·1· · · · · · · ·DR. MAHDI SHAHBAKHTI
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`·2· ·1 -- sorry, paragraph 104.· And then I'm just
`
`·3· ·using a sentence from the -- my declaration,
`
`·4· ·and it's -- as you noticed there, mentioned the
`
`·5· ·monitors patterns of vehicle operation over
`
`·6· ·times and varies setpoint accordingly.
`
`·7· · · · · · ·So the amount of the time that in
`
`·8· ·order -- because it should be all into the
`
`·9· ·context that what's the purpose that things
`
`10· ·need to be accomplished.· And then it's talking
`
`11· ·about patterns of the vehicle operation and the
`
`12· ·patterns of vehicle operation that is enough to
`
`13· ·adjust the setpoint.
`
`14· · · · · · ·So the amount of the time cannot --
`
`15· ·doesn't need to be specified saying if it's
`
`16· ·going to be a second or a minute or a day or
`
`17· ·two weeks or a month or a year.· It will be
`
`18· ·based on the setpoint that is intended to be
`
`19· ·utilized.
`
`20· · · · Q.· ·Okay, let's break that down a little.
`
`21· ·I'm not quite sure if I follow.· So are you
`
`22· ·saying that -- actually, I'm sorry, I don't
`
`23· ·quite follow.· Can we start over at paragraph
`
`24· ·104, which I believe is the paragraph you
`
`25· ·referenced?· And this relates to whether
`
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`·1· · · · · · · ·DR. MAHDI SHAHBAKHTI
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`·2· ·Severinsky or Nii vary a setpoint.· Is that
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`Page 24
`
`·3· ·right?
`
`·4· · · · A.· ·That is correct.
`
`·5· · · · Q.· ·So this doesn't have to do with
`
`·6· ·whether Severinsky or Nii monitor patterns over
`
`·7· ·time, right?
`
`·8· · · · A.· ·Well, here, I mainly use the sentence
`
`·9· ·that was useful for the -- my answer from the
`
`10· ·declaration.
`
`11· · · · Q.· ·I think we're on -- go ahead.
`
`12· · · · A.· ·I wanted to emphasize that the
`
`13· ·monitoring the patterns of the vehicle
`
`14· ·operation over time and then the emphasizing in
`
`15· ·the next portion, which it says "and varies the
`
`16· ·said setpoint accordingly."· So that amount of
`
`17· ·time that you are referring will be adjusted
`
`18· ·based on what setpoint you need to use.· So
`
`19· ·that term, "time," it is fine that we have it
`
`20· ·in the claim construction.· And depending on
`
`21· ·the application, that can be adjusted.
`
`22· · · · · · ·If you -- if there are examples in
`
`23· ·the patent '347 -- and I'm going to go refer to
`
`24· ·those example.· And that's an example that's
`
`25· ·the amount of the time that they have looked at
`
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`Page 25
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`·1· · · · · · · ·DR. MAHDI SHAHBAKHTI
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`·2· ·to adjust the setpoint.· So for that, I'm going
`
`·3· ·to go to a part in the declaration to give you
`
`·4· ·an example.
`
`·5· · · · Q.· ·For anything you refer to, just
`
`·6· ·please let me know either the paragraph number
`
`·7· ·or the page enough so we can look at the same
`
`·8· ·thing.
`
`·9· · · · A.· ·Sure.· I will do.· So let's take a
`
`10· ·look at paragraph 153, and then beginning of
`
`11· ·the page 59.· If you are there, I will read.
`
`12· · · · Q.· ·So I'm at paragraph 153.· This spans
`
`13· ·pages 98 and 99.· Am I in the right place?
`
`14· · · · A.· ·Correct.· So go to the beginning of
`
`15· ·the page 99.
`
`16· · · · Q.· ·Okay.· I'm there.
`
`17· · · · A.· ·So I'm going to read.· For example,
`
`18· ·as discussed above in section 5, a controller
`
`19· ·would increase the setpoint from 30 percent MTO
`
`20· ·to 60 percent MTO based on identifying a
`
`21· ·regular commute when the road load might remain
`
`22· ·under 20 percent of MTO for the first few
`
`23· ·minutes of each day, then vary between 0 and
`
`24· ·50 percent of MTO for another few minutes as
`
`25· ·the operator passes through a few traffic
`
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`Page 26
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`·1· · · · · · · ·DR. MAHDI SHAHBAKHTI
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`·2· ·lights and then suddenly increase to
`
`·3· ·150 percent of MTO as the operator accelerates
`
`·4· ·to highway.· Exhibit 101 -- sorry, 1001, '347
`
`·5· ·patent at 40, 62-67.· Thus, the controller
`
`·6· ·would prevent repetitive engine starts that
`
`·7· ·would otherwise occur when the road load
`
`·8· ·fluctuates above and below 30 percent MTO.
`
`·9· ·Exhibit 1001, '347 patent.· That's 41-2.· Thus,
`
`10· ·by knowing how the instantaneous torque
`
`11· ·requirement fluctuated in relation to the
`
`12· ·setpoint on the previous trip, then the '347
`
`13· ·patent controller can adjust the setpoint to
`
`14· ·improve engine efficiency.
`
`15· · · · · · ·So here we see an example.· And in
`
`16· ·this context, you can see from the example what
`
`17· ·was the time that was -- we are talking about
`
`18· ·being monitored.· So depending on the setpoint,
`
`19· ·the time will be adjusted.
`
`20· · · · Q.· ·So is it your opinion that Claim 2 of
`
`21· ·the '347 patent adjusts the amount of time that
`
`22· ·is being monitored?
`
`23· · · · · · ·MR. LIVEDALEN:· Objection,
`
`24· · · · misstates the testimony.
`
`25· · · · Q.· ·Is that what you're saying?
`
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`·1· · · · · · · ·DR. MAHDI SHAHBAKHTI
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`·2· · · · A.· ·I did not mean to adjust time.· I was
`
`·3· ·meaning that the time that's being considered,
`
`·4· ·it will be along with the purpose to setting
`
`·5· ·the setpoint.· So the time will become -- go
`
`·6· ·along with the setpoints, basically from the
`
`·7· ·time you want to see what purpose you are
`
`·8· ·looking for.
`
`·9· · · · · · ·So the word "time" does not need to
`
`10· ·be specified further, which will become
`
`11· ·dependent on the setpoint that the person's
`
`12· ·looking at.· And I gave you an example from my
`
`13· ·declaration that explain that how could be an
`
`14· ·example of one time.· But this is an example.
`
`15· · · · Q.· ·Okay.· I think I understand now.
`
`16· ·Thank you.
`
`17· · · · A.· ·You are welcome.
`
`18· · · · Q.· ·To confirm, the example you gave out
`
`19· ·of your declaration, paragraph 153, the claims
`
`20· ·of the '347 patent are not limited to this
`
`21· ·example, right?
`
`22· · · · A.· ·My understanding, is not limited to
`
`23· ·this example.· It would be -- should be read
`
`24· ·Claim 1 and Claim 2 together.· And whatever is
`
`25· ·mentioned in Claim 1 when talking about a
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`Page 28
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`·1· · · · · · · ·DR. MAHDI SHAHBAKHTI
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`·2· ·setpoint, then Claim 2 is building upon.
`
`·3· · · · Q.· ·So, for example, Claim 2 is not
`
`·4· ·limited to how the driver uses the car on a
`
`·5· ·day-to-day basis, right?
`
`·6· · · · · · ·MR. LIVEDALEN:· Objection to the
`
`·7· · · · extent it calls for a legal conclusion.
`
`·8· · · · A.· ·Going back to what I mention, it's
`
`·9· ·about monitoring vehicle operation.· So it's
`
`10· ·going to monitor the vehicle -- the patterns of
`
`11· ·the vehicle operation, and then that can be at
`
`12· ·different time, amount of time.· And then from
`
`13· ·there, it will use this to adjust the setpoint.
`
`14· · · · Q.· ·So monitoring a pattern day to day I
`
`15· ·understand is an example.· But the claims
`
`16· ·aren't limited to monitoring a pattern day to
`
`17· ·day.· Correct?
`
`18· · · · · · ·MR. LIVEDALEN:· Objection, calls
`
`19· · · · for a legal conclusion.
`
`20· · · · A.· ·As I mentioned, it monitors the
`
`21· ·patterns of the vehicle operation over time.
`
`22· ·So it can monitor the patterns of the vehicle
`
`23· ·operation during the one day that it's
`
`24· ·operating.· It can monitor the patterns of
`
`25· ·vehicle operation for the longer period of
`
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`Page 29
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`·1· · · · · · · ·DR. MAHDI SHAHBAKHTI
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`·2· ·time.
`
`·3· · · · Q.· ·Or a shorter period of time.
`
`·4· ·Correct?
`
`·5· · · · A.· ·It can monitors the patterns of the
`
`·6· ·vehicle operation over shorter period of time
`
`·7· ·going back to the point I mentioned earlier,
`
`·8· ·depending on the setpoints that is intended,
`
`·9· ·because at the end, you want to get something
`
`10· ·useful out of the efforts you are putting in of
`
`11· ·collecting data.
`
`12· · · · Q.· ·So let's take a step back from the
`
`13· ·"over time" discussion and go back to page 34
`
`14· ·of your declaration so we can look at the
`
`15· ·board's construction.· Let me know when you're
`
`16· ·there, please.
`
`17· · · · A.· ·I'm at page 34.
`
`18· · · · Q.· ·And again, I'd like to talk about the
`
`19· ·construction monitoring patterns of vehicle
`
`20· ·operation over time to mean monitoring a
`
`21· ·driver's repeated driving operations over time.
`
`22· ·Are you there?
`
`23· · · · A.· ·Yes, I'm there.
`
`24· · · · Q.· ·Based on your understanding of the
`
`25· ·board's construction, can a driver's repeated
`
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`·1· · · · · · · ·DR. MAHDI SHAHBAKHTI
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`·2· ·driving operation be a monitoring of a driver's
`
`Page 30
`
`·3· ·speed?
`
`·4· · · · · · ·MR. LIVEDALEN:· Objection to the
`
`·5· · · · extent it calls for a legal conclusion.
`
`·6· · · · A.· ·Because it uses the word "setpoint,"
`
`·7· ·if y
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