UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`
`BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
`APPLE INC.
`
`Petitioner
`
`VS.
`
`COREPHOTONICS, LTD.
`
`Patent Owner
`
`IPR2020-00489
`
`U.S. Patent 10,015,408
`
`IPR2020-00905
`
`U.S. Patent 10,225,479
`
`IPR2020-00906
`
`U.S. Patent 10,225,479
`
`*
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`*
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`*
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`*
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`*
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`*
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`*
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`*******************************************
`
`ORAL AND VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF
`
`DUNCAN MOORE, PHD
`
`MARCH 11, 2021
`
`(Reported Remotely)
`
`*******************************************
`
`ORAL AND VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF DUNCAN
`
`MOORE, PHD, produced as a witness at the instance of
`
`the Petitioner and duly sworn, was taken via
`
`videoconference in the above-styled and numbered cause
`
`on the 11th day of March, 2021, from 10:08 a.m. CST to
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`7:48 p.m. CST, before Marsha Yarberry, Certified
`
`Shorthand Reporter in and for the State of Texas,
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`reported by machine shorthand, in New York, pursuant to
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`the Code of Federal Regulations.
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`APPLE INC v. COREPHOTONICS LTD.
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`
`
`BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
`APPLE INC.
`
`Petitioner
`
`VS.
`
`COREPHOTONICS, LTD.
`
`Patent Owner
`
`IPR2020-00489
`
`U.S. Patent 10,015,408
`
`IPR2020-00905
`
`U.S. Patent 10,225,479
`
`IPR2020-00906
`
`U.S. Patent 10,225,479
`
`*
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`*
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`*
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`*
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`*
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`*
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`*
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`*******************************************
`
`ORAL AND VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF
`
`DUNCAN MOORE, PHD
`
`MARCH 11, 2021
`
`(Reported Remotely)
`
`*******************************************
`
`ORAL AND VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF DUNCAN
`
`MOORE, PHD, produced as a witness at the instance of
`
`the Petitioner and duly sworn, was taken via
`
`videoconference in the above-styled and numbered cause
`
`on the 11th day of March, 2021, from 10:08 a.m. CST to
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`7:48 p.m. CST, before Marsha Yarberry, Certified
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`Shorthand Reporter in and for the State of Texas,
`
`reported by machine shorthand, in New York, pursuant to
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`the Code of Federal Regulations.
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`APPLE INC v. COREPHOTONICS LTD.
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`
`
` A P P E A R A N C E S ( V i a V i d e o c o n f e r e n c e )
`
`F O R T H E P E T I T I O N E R :
`
` M s . H o n g S h i
` M r . D a v i d O ' B r i e n
` H A Y E S A N D B O O N E , L L P
` 6 0 0 C o n g r e s s A v e n u e , S u i t e 1 3 0 0
` A u s t i n , T e x a s 7 8 7 0 1
` 5 1 2 - 8 6 7 - 8 4 4 0
` h o n g . s h i @ h a y n e s b o o n e . c o m
` d a v i d . o b r i e n @ h a y n e s b o o n e . c o m
` - - a n d - -
` M r . M i c h a e l P a r s o n s
` M s . B e t h a n y L o v e
` M r . J o r d a n M a u c o t e l
` H A Y N E S A N D B O O N E L L P
` 6 0 0 H e a d q u a r t e r s D r i v e , S u i t e 2 0 0
` P l a n o , T e x a s 7 5 0 2 4
` 9 7 2 - 7 3 9 - 6 9 0 0
` m i c h a e l . p a r s o n s @ h a y n e s b o o n e . c o m
` b e t h a n y . l o v e @ h a y n e s b o o n e . c o m
` j o r d a n . m a u c o t e l @ h a y n e s b o o n e . c o m
`
`F O R T H E P A T E N T O W N E R :
` M r . N e i l A . R u b i n
` R U S S A U G U S T & K A B A T
` 1 2 4 2 4 W i l s h i r e B o u l e v a r d , 1 2 t h F l o o r
` L o s A n g e l e s , C a l i f o r n i a 9 0 0 2 5
` 3 1 0 - 8 2 6 - 7 4 7 4
` n r u b i n @ r a k l a w . c o m
`
`A L S O P R E S E N T :
` M s . P r i y a V i s w a n a t h
` D r . J o s e S a s i a n
` M r . S h a n e R a m i r e z , V i d e o g r a p h e r
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`2 0
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`APPL-1041 / Page 2 of 207
`APPLE INC v. COREPHOTONICS LTD.
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`
`
` INDEX
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` PAGE
`
`Appearances..................................... 2
`
`DUNCAN MOORE, PHD
`
` Examination by Ms. Shi...................... 5
`
` Examination by Mr. Rubin.................... 149
`
` Further Examination by Ms. Shi.............. 158
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`Changes and Corrections......................... 167
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`Signature....................................... 168
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`Reporter's Certificate.......................... 169
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` EXHIBITS (Previously Marked)
`
`NO. DESCRIPTION PAGE/LINE REFERENCED
`
`Exhibit 1001.................................... 23/24
`
`Exhibit 1005.................................... 128/24
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`Exhibit 1007.................................... 152/25
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`Exhibit 1012.................................... 153/1
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`Exhibit 1033.................................... 115/6
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`Exhibit 2003.................................... 13/16
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`Exhibit 2007.................................... 104/21
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`Exhibit 2011.................................... 126/10
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`Exhibit 2012.................................... 126/10
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`APPL-1041 / Page 3 of 207
`APPLE INC v. COREPHOTONICS LTD.
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`
`
` THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Here begins the
`
`deposition of Dr. Duncan Moore. Today's date is
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`March 11th, 2021. The time is 10:08 a.m. This
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`deposition is being recorded live via Zoom.
`
` Will the court reporter please swear in
`
`the witness.
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` (Witness sworn)
`
` THE REPORTER: You may proceed whenever
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`you're ready.
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` MR. RUBIN: Should we announce our
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`appearances?
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` MS. SHI: I will go first. My name is
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`Hong Shi. I'm from Haynes and Boone representing
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`Apple, taking the deposition. With me also I have
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`David O'Brien, Mike Parsons, Jordan Maucotel, and
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`Bethany Love, attorneys from Haynes and Boone
`
`representing Apple. I also have Priya Viswanath from
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`Cooley representing Apple. Also with us is Dr. Jose
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`Sasian, Apple's consultant.
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` MR. RUBIN: And this is Neil Rubin of
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`Russ August & Kabat representing the patent owner,
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`Corephotonics, and defending the witness.
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` DUNCAN MOORE, PHD,
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`having been first duly sworn, testified as follows:
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`APPLE INC v. COREPHOTONICS LTD.
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` EXAMINATION
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`QUESTIONS BY MS. SHI:
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` Q. Good morning.
`
` A. Good morning.
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` Q. Again, my name is Hong Shi, and I will address
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`you as Dr. Moore today. Would that work?
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` A. Yes.
`
` Q. Okay. So I will first just go over some
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`ground rules today. You understand that you're under
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`oath today, right?
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` A. Yes.
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` Q. And you understand that I will be asking you
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`questions, correct?
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` A. Yes.
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` Q. And you understand that the oath requires you
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`to answer truthfully and completely, correct?
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` A. Yes.
`
` Q. So is there any reason today that you cannot
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`provide truthful, complete, and accurate testimony
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`today?
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` A. There's no reason.
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` Q. Is there any other reason why your deposition
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`should not go forward today, for example, any medical
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`reasons or any other reasons?
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` A. No. Not unless there's another technical
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`problem.
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` Q. And do you understand that this deposition is
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`being transcribed and we're developing a record here?
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` A. Yes.
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` Q. So because of that, I would like to ask you to
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`wait for me to finish my questions before you answer
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`such that the record is clean and complete.
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` A. Was that a question or statement?
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` Q. It's a statement. Is that acceptable to you?
`
` A. Yes.
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` Q. That's a question. So I will repeat a
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`question if the question I asked was not answered. Do
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`you understand that?
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` A. Yes.
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` Q. And if I ask you a question and you answer it,
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`I will assume that you have understood that question.
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`Is that fair?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. Also, if you need to take a break, would you
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`agree to let me know?
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` A. Certainly.
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` Q. We will try to take a break about once every
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`hour. Is that schedule acceptable to you?
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` A. Yes.
`
` Q. We will also take a lunch break between 12 and
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`1:15. Does that work for you?
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` A. Which time zone?
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` Q. Central time.
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` A. Okay.
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` Q. So are you connecting to the deposition today
`
`on a personal computer?
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` A. Yes.
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` Q. Do you have any other electronics --
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`electronic devices in the room with you?
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` A. Yes.
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` Q. What are those?
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` A. My iPhone. Actually, I have two iPhones.
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` Q. Any other devices?
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` A. Does a television count?
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` Q. Sure.
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` A. Okay.
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` Q. Yes. Thank you. So are the two iPhones off?
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` A. No.
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` Q. Could you please turn them off?
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` MR. RUBIN: We're picking up some
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`background conversation, I think, from somebody.
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` THE WITNESS: Sorry. Was that a question
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`to me?
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` MR. RUBIN: No. No, Dr. Moore. I think
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`somebody who is not muted. It's some sort of --
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` THE WITNESS: I'm trying to get -- I've
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`got some people in the background here. Let me --
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` MR. RUBIN: Oh, maybe it was you.
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` THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Do we want to stay on
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`or go off?
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` MS. SHI: We can go off for two minutes.
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` THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Off the record,
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`10:15 a.m.
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` (Pausing)
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` THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Back on the record.
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`The time is 10:17 a.m.
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` Q. (By Ms. Shi) So are there any people in the
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`same room with you today?
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` A. There are no people currently in this room.
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`My wife is in this house. I'm at home, and my wife is
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`here, and we have contractors here working on an
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`addition to the house. So they -- they move around.
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`But there's nobody physically in the same room.
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` Q. Do you have any handwritten notes with you
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`today?
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` A. Do I have any handwritten notes. Yes. I've
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`written notes --
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` Q. What are they?
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` A. They're the notes I did, like, for example,
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`when I read my declaration, things of that sort. I
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`mean, so there are handwritten notes on those.
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` Q. Could you put them away so that you don't
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`consult them during the deposition?
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` A. Yes, I can.
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` MS. SHI: Video -- Videographer, I think
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`you're recording me instead of Dr. Moore. Hello?
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` THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Sorry. I'm getting
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`distracted here. Did we go off?
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` MS. SHI: No, we don't. How -- sorry.
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`How can we tell which window is being recorded?
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`Because I think it seems to be recording whoever is
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`speaking now.
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` THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Oh, that's --
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` MS. SHI: Is it?
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` THE VIDEOGRAPHER: The witness is pinned.
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`If you like, I can spotlight it so everyone only sees
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`the witness.
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` MS. SHI: Okay.
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` THE VIDEOGRAPHER: So you should just see
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`him now.
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` MS. SHI: Thank you.
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` Q. (By Ms. Shi) Do you have any notes pulled up
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`on your computer?
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` A. No.
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` Q. Do you have any --
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` A. I'm sorry. Go ahead.
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` Q. Do you have -- do you have any programs other
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`than the Exhibit Share and the Zoom opened on your
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`computer?
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` A. Let's see. Safari is open. My mailbox is
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`open. Zoom is open. And that's it.
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` Q. Could you please close your mailbox and the
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`Safari tab that doesn't have the Exhibit Share? Could
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`you please let me know when you have closed all the
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`programs on your computer other than the Zoom and the
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`Web page having the exhibits?
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` A. Oh, I think I just closed the one with the
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`exhibit on it. All right. The only thing I have left
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`open is my Finder and Zoom. So let's see if I can
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`reopen. So you want me to go to the exhibit thing,
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`that thing you sent me in chat?
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` Q. Yes, please.
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` A. Okay. That's going to be open in Safari,
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`then. Okay. It's open again.
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` Q. Thank you. Have you ever worked as an expert
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`before?
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` A. In a -- in a legal matter?
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` Q. Yes.
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` A. Yes, I have.
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` Q. In how many cases?
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` A. Over how many years?
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` Q. Over all these past years.
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` A. Over 20 years or over four years?
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` Q. Is there a difference?
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` A. Yes.
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` Q. Over -- okay. So over the past 20 years how
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`many cases have you worked as an expert?
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` A. I don't know the exact number, but it's
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`between eight and ten.
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` Q. Were those all patent cases?
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` A. What is it called when you have arbitration?
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`Is that a patent case?
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` Q. So you worked in an arbitration case?
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` A. I worked on an arbitration case about a decade
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`ago. All the others were patent infringement cases.
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` Q. How many litigation patent cases have you
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`worked on in the past year -- in the past two years?
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` A. I think this is the only one because the
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`pandemic. Nothing happened last year. There may be a
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`case that's closed out two years ago, but I just don't
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`remember.
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` Q. So how many IPRs have you worked on in the
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`past two years?
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` A. I'd have to check my -- my resume, but I think
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`this is the only one.
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` Q. When you say this is the only one, you mean
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`the only -- do you mean you're only working on cases
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`for Corephotonics? Because in this proceeding we
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`actually cover three IPRs that you are involved.
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` A. I'm sorry. But during the middle of that
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`question your audio broke up so I couldn't hear the
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`question.
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` Q. Okay. So I will repeat my question. So at
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`least today we are covering three IPRs, so you at least
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`are working on three IPRs.
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` A. In that case, yes. I thought of them as being
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`clients as opposed to individual IPRs.
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` Q. Okay. So how many IPRs in the past two years
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`are you working on for Corephotonics?
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` A. I think there are three, aren't there? I -- I
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`don't remember. I didn't prepare for that question. I
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`mean, it's three or four. I just don't know.
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` Q. So are there -- okay. We'll get back to that
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`if needed to.
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` So when was the last deposition? When
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`was your last deposition taken?
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` A. It was sometime before the pandemic. I would
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`guess it was late 2019, but I -- I'd have to look that
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`up.
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` Q. Was that for Corephotonics as well?
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` A. Yes, it was.
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` Q. So have you reviewed any documents to prepare
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`for your deposition today?
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` A. Yes.
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` Q. What documents have you reviewed?
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` A. They are listed on the page of my declaration.
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`I can read them if you wish.
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` Q. So are you talking about the Exhibit 3 of
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`the -- in the IPR 489 case?
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` A. I don't have any depositions in front of me
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`right now, so I can't -- I can't review anything.
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` Q. Could you open the Exhibit 3 of the IPR
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`2020-00489?
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` A. Yes.
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` MR. RUBIN: And when you say Exhibit 3,
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`Counsel, are you referring to Exhibit 2003?
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` MS. SHI: Yes, Exhibit 2003.
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` THE WITNESS: I've opened it.
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` Q. (By Ms. Shi) Okay. So were you talking about
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`the list of paragraph 3 in Exhibit 2003?
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` A. I'm referring to the list that -- hang on. It
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`is on page 4 of Exhibit 2003 and -- sorry. The
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`numbering is a little bit confusing. So I am looking
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`at Exhibit 2003, page 4 of 62. The page number at the
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`bottom is page No. 2.
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`page -- listed in your declaration after -- in
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`paragraph 3?
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` MR. RUBIN: Objection; form.
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` THE WITNESS: I didn't understand the
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`question.
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` Q. (By Ms. Shi) If you go to page 3, the bottom
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`of page 3 of Exhibit 2003 there is a paragraph No. 3.
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`Do you see that?
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` A. When you say paragraph -- sorry -- page 3, are
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`you referring to the page number that is typed into the
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`bottom of the document, or are you referring to the
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`page number that's on the exhibit?
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` Q. I'm referring to the page number out of page
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`62.
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` A. All right. Okay. Page 3 of 62. What is the
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`question?
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` Q. Do you see the bottom line there's a paragraph
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`starting with No. 3?
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` A. I do.
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` Q. I will use this number as paragraph numbers to
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`refer to your paragraphs in this declaration. Would
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`that work?
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` A. Yes.
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` Q. So in paragraph 3 you have listed the
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`documents that you reviewed for preparing the
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`declaration, correct?
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` A. That's correct.
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` Q. Did you review these documents to prepare for
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`your deposition?
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` A. Some of them, but I didn't review -- I did not
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`review the prosecution history.
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` Q. What documents did you review to prepare for
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`the deposition?
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` A. I think I reviewed all of them.
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` Q. Did you review the prosecution history of the
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`'408 patent --
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` A. Is that --
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` Q. -- to prepare for the deposition?
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` A. I did not.
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` Q. So what -- do you want to make any correction
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`to your previous answer to what documents did you
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`review to prepare for the deposition?
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` MR. RUBIN: Objection; form.
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` THE WITNESS: I'm not sure -- I'm not
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`sure exactly what I said, but I did not review the
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`prosecution history for this deposition.
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` Q. (By Ms. Shi) What other documents you didn't
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`review for this deposition?
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` A. I reviewed everything except that.
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` Q. Did you review the board's decision to
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`institute this IPR?
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` MR. RUBIN: Objection; form.
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` THE WITNESS: I don't remember.
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` Q. (By Ms. Shi) Did you review the parties'
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`claim construction brief in the district court for any
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`Corephotonics patent?
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` MR. RUBIN: Objection; form.
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` THE WITNESS: I'm sorry. I didn't hear
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`the end of the question.
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` Q. (By Ms. Shi) So there are litigation in
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`district court for Corephotonics' patents as well. Did
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`you review the parties' claim construction briefs in
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`the district court for the Corephotonics patents?
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` MR. RUBIN: Objection; form.
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` THE WITNESS: In the deposition?
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` Q. (By Ms. Shi) Anywhere.
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` A. I don't remember whether I did it for the
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`declaration or not.
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` Q. Have you ever reviewed the parties' claim
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`construction briefs in the district court for any
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`Corephotonics patent?
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` A. I don't remember whether I did it for the
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`declaration or not.
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` Q. The question is have you ever reviewed the
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`court for any Corephotonics patent.
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` A. I simply don't remember whether I did for the
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`declaration or not.
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` Q. Do you remember whether you reviewed the
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`parties' claim construction briefs outside of the
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`context of preparing for the declaration?
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` A. I don't remember whether I did or not.
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` Q. Did you review any of the patent owner
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`response or draft of the patent owner response in this
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`IPR?
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` A. I'm sorry. Repeat the question.
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` Q. In this IPR patent owner has filed a response.
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`Did you review the response by the patent owner?
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` A. I don't remember.
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` Q. Did you review any draft of patent owner
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`response for this case and for IPR number -- for the
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`'479 patent with IPR No. 2020-905 and IPR 2020-00906?
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` MR. RUBIN: Objection; form.
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` THE WITNESS: What was the question?
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`Whether I reviewed it?
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` Q. (By Ms. Shi) Did you review any patent owner
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`response or draft for the three IPR cases we're having
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`deposition today?
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` A. I don't believe so.
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` Q. Did you meet with anyone to prepare for your
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`deposition today?
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` A. Yes.
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` Q. Who?
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` A. Neil Rubin.
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` Q. When?
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` A. Yesterday. We did not physically meet
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`together. We met by Zoom.
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` Q. For how long?
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` A. I guess it was about two and a half hours,
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`maybe three.
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` Q. Did you do anything else to prepare for this
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`deposition today?
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` A. I did a lot of reading of the declarations and
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`for the background -- and the exhibits.
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` Q. Are there any documents not listed in your
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`declaration that you reviewed to prepare your
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`deposition today?
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` A. I don't believe so.
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` Q. Okay. So I would like you to -- direct you to
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`Exhibit 2003 from IPR 2020-00489. Please let me
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`know -- confirm that you have it downloaded.
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` A. So that's the other document that was in the
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`chat room?
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` Q. It's a document -- one of the documents -- two
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`documents in the Box link.
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` A. Is it the one 2003 or is this another one?
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` Q. 2003.
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` A. Yes, I have that in front of me.
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` Q. Do you recognize this document?
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` A. Yes.
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` Q. What is it?
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` A. It is a declaration that I prepared.
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` Q. Could you go to page 62 out of 62? There's a
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`signature on that page. Is that your signature?
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` A. Yes, believe it or not.
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` Q. Did you sign after reviewing the entire
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`declaration?
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` A. Yes.
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` Q. Are there any errors in your declaration that
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`you would like to correct?
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` A. I'm not aware of any.
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` Q. Did you perform or did you ask anyone else to
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`perform any calculation or experiment or analysis in
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`preparing this declaration?
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` MR. RUBIN: Objection to the extent that
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`the question seeks information about work that is not
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`reflected in the declaration and would be protected as
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`work product under Rule 26. So instruct the witness
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`not to answer the question as to any drafts of
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`declarations or work that was done and not incorporated
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`into the declaration. He can answer the question aside
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`from such material.
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` Go ahead. Actually, just to be clear, if
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`you can answer the -- if the answer -- if there's
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`material that's in the declaration that's responsive to
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`the question, you can answer as to that material, but I
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`instruct you not to answer as to any work that did not
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`find its way into the declaration.
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` THE WITNESS: I don't understand what I'm
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`supposed to do here.
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` MR. RUBIN: Counsel, I guess maybe you
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`can -- maybe if you can reask the question and make it
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`clear as to whether your question is limited to work
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`that's reflected in the declaration or it goes outside
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`that.
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` MS. SHI: I will repeat my question.
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` Q. (By Ms. Shi) Did you perform or ask anyone
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`else to perform any calculation or experiment or
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`analysis for this declaration?
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` MR. RUBIN: So I object that the question
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`as posed may call for work product, instruct the
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`witness not to disclose any work that -- any
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`calculations or analysis that he did that are not
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`reflected in the declaration.
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` Q. (By Ms. Shi) You can answer for the
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`calculation or experiments or analysis that are
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`reflected in this declaration.
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` A. Can you repeat the question? I don't
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`understand how that's different from the first
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`question.
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` Q. Did you perform or ask anyone else to perform
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`any calculation or experiments that are reflected in
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`this declaration?
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` A. That sounds like the same question you've
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`asked twice before, which the attorney has instructed
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`not to answer.
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` MR. RUBIN: So, Dr. Moore, I think
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`that -- I think you can answer the question that
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`counsel just asked, which was limited to analyses or
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`calculations that are reflected in the declaration.
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` THE WITNESS: I can certainly say I asked
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`no one else to do any calculations. If I did some
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`calculations, you know, on the back of an envelope or
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`some other thing to estimate answers, I can't be sure.
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` Q. (By Ms. Shi) Did you include those
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`calculations --
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` A. I'm sorry.
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` Q. Did you include the calculations in your
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`declaration?
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` A. I don't believe so.
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` Q. Why not?
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` A. Because I didn't believe it was relevant.
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` Q. So the calculations or experiments you did are
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`not the basis of your opinions; is that right?
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` MR. RUBIN: Objection; form.
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` You can answer.
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` THE WITNESS: I can remember a
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`calculation that's not in there that reflects things
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`that I might have done that would be in there. For
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`example, somewhere in the declaration -- or in the
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`material I reviewed there were some errors made or
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`simplifications made by people that weren't generally
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`true, and looking at those I would have done
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`calculations to see what the errors might have been.
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` Q. (By Ms. Shi) And you didn't believe that
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`error was relevant to your opinion?
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` A. In my declaration I -- I'm sorry. At one
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`point in my declaration I stated -- and I'd have to
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`look exactly at the paragraph -- that the -- the
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`calculations that have been done by others were an
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`approximation only under certain circumstances, and
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`they had to do with issues associated with lenses.
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` Q. Do you remember which paragraphs are those?
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` A. I do not.
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` Q. Please go to paragraph 33 of your declaration.
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`You stated that the '408 patent --
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` A. Just a minute. I'm not there yet. I'm having
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`trouble with my -- getting from the bottom up. What
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`paragraph?
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` Q. 33.
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` A. Can you give me the page number? It's a lot
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`easier. The numbers are much bigger.
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` Q. It's page 17 out of 62.
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` A. I'm sorry. What number?
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` Q. 17.
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` A. Okay. Okay. I'm on paragraph 33.
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` Q. So in paragraph 33 you said, "The '408 patent
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`describes two designs for lens assemblies with TTL/EFL
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`ratio less than 1," right?
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` A. That's correct.
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` Q. And on the next page there are Figures 8 and
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`Figure 9. What are those figures?
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` A. Those are referred to as cross-sectional
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`diagrams of an optical lens system.
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` Q. Are they provided in the '408 patent?
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` A. I don't have the '408 patent in front of me.
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` Q. Could you go to the exhibit link and download
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`Exhibit 1001? Which is the U.S. Patent 10,015,408.
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` A. Having trouble closing. I can't -- I'm having
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`trouble getting to it. Let's see here. Let me go back
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`to chat room and see if I can get at it that way.
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` All right. I got '408 now, or
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`Exhibit 1001.
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` Q. So does the '408 patent describe the details
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`of the Figure 8 lens design?
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` A. The '408 Figure 8 corresponds to the one on
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`paragraph -- I guess it's 34 of my declaration.
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` Q. How does the '408 patent describe Figure 8?
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` A. In Column 6, line 10, it says "Figure 8 shows
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`one embodiment of a lens block in a thin camera
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`disclosed herein." I'm going to have to search the
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`rest of the patent to find where else it's described.
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` Q. Is there -- is that the only place where the
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`'408 patent describes the Figure 8 design?
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` A. I'm searching the document, but I can't search
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`my -- I can't word search it.
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` Q. Do you remember when you reviewed the '408
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`patent when preparing your declaration and for this
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`deposition that the '408 patent describes the Figure 8
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`lens design anywhere else?
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` A. I'm sorry. I didn't understand -- I didn't
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`hear the end of the sentence.
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` Q. Do you remember when you reviewed the '408
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`patent when preparing for your declaration and this
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`deposition, is there anywhere else that the '408 patent
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`describes the Figure 8 lens design?
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` A. I'm searching now to find other references to
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`it.
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` Q. So you don't remember anywhere else in the
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`'408 patent describing Figure 8 lens design during your
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`previous reviews, correct?
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` A. I cannot find another reference to Figure 8 in
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`the patent numbered '408.
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` Q. So what are the benefits of this lens design
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`of Figure 8?
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` MR. RUBIN: Objection; scope, by which I
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`mean outside the scope of the declaration.
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` MS. SHI: You can answer.
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` THE WITNESS: I'm sorry. I've lost the
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`question.
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` Q. (By Ms. Shi) What are the benefits of the
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`lens design of Figure 8?
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` MR. RUBIN: Same objection.
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` THE WITNESS: In Figure 1A and 1B it
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`refers to the telephoto -- or telelens 108, so that
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`would indicate there was a telephoto lens.
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` Q. (By Ms. Shi) How is that relevant to the
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`benefits of the lens design of Figure 8?
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` MR. RUBIN: Objection; scope.
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`Page 25
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`APPLE INC v. COREPHOTONICS LTD.
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` THE WITNESS: The patent '408 describes
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`optical systems that are very compact, and in order to
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`make a lens compact with a long focal length, you would
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`need to have the lens be telephoto.
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` Q. (By Ms. Shi) How is that description of '408
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`relevant to the benefits of the lens design of
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`Figure 8?
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` MR. RUBIN: Objection; scope. Objection;
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`form.
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` THE WITNESS: Figure 8 I guess I believe
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`is a telephoto lens. And I'm not 100 percent sure, but
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`I saw some calculations by Dr. Sasian, but I'm not sure
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`where he did that, but I'm not -- I can't be sure.
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` Q. (By Ms. Shi) Where did you see the
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`calculation by Dr. Sasian regarding Figure 8 of the
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`'408 patent?
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` A. I said I'm not sure that -- where I saw it or
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`whether I saw it at all.
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` Q. Are there any other benefits of the lens
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`design on Figure 8?
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` MR. RUBIN: Objection; form. And scope.
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`Sorry. Actually withdraw the form objection. The
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`objection is to scope.
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` THE WITNESS: All right to proceed here?
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` MR. RUBIN: You can answer the question,
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`Page 26
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