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`Martin Walker, Ph.D. - May 11, 2021
`
`Page 1
`
` UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
` __________
`
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
` __________
`
` GOOGLE LLC, SAMSUNG ELECTRONICS CO., LTD., SAMSUNG
` ELECTRONICS AMERICA, INC., LG ELECTRONICS INC., and LG
` ELECTRONICS U.S.A., INC.
` Petitioners,
`
` v.
`
` PARUS HOLDINGS, INC.
` Patent Owner.
` __________
`
` Case No. IPR2020-00846
`
` U.S. Patent No. 7,076,431
`
` __________
`
` DEPOSITION OF MARTIN WALKER, Ph.D.
`
` Tuesday, May 11, 2021
`
` REPORTED REMOTELY VIA ZOOM
`
`Reported By:
`
`KATHLEEN WILKINS, STENOGRAPHIC REPORTER, CSR 10068
`
`RPR-RMR-CRR-CCRR-CLR-CRC (Via Zoom Videoconference)
`
`GregoryEdwards, LLC | Worldwide Court Reporting
`GregoryEdwards.com | 866-4Team GE
`
`Parus Exhibit 2061
`Google, et al. v. Parus Holdings, Inc.
`IPR2020-00846
`Page 1 of 62
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`Martin Walker, Ph.D. - May 11, 2021
`
`Page 1
`
` UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
` __________
`
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
` __________
`
` GOOGLE LLC, SAMSUNG ELECTRONICS CO., LTD., SAMSUNG
` ELECTRONICS AMERICA, INC., LG ELECTRONICS INC., and LG
` ELECTRONICS U.S.A., INC.
` Petitioners,
`
` v.
`
` PARUS HOLDINGS, INC.
` Patent Owner.
` __________
`
` Case No. IPR2020-00846
`
` U.S. Patent No. 7,076,431
`
` __________
`
` DEPOSITION OF MARTIN WALKER, Ph.D.
`
` Tuesday, May 11, 2021
`
` REPORTED REMOTELY VIA ZOOM
`
`Reported By:
`
`KATHLEEN WILKINS, STENOGRAPHIC REPORTER, CSR 10068
`
`RPR-RMR-CRR-CCRR-CLR-CRC (Via Zoom Videoconference)
`
`GregoryEdwards, LLC | Worldwide Court Reporting
`GregoryEdwards.com | 866-4Team GE
`
`Parus Exhibit 2061
`Google, et al. v. Parus Holdings, Inc.
`IPR2020-00846
`Page 1 of 62
`
`
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`Martin Walker, Ph.D. - May 11, 2021
`
`Page 2
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` DEPOSITION OF MARTIN WALKER, PH.D.
`
` BE IT REMEMBERED that on Tuesday, May 11,
`
`2021, commencing at the hour of 7:02 a.m. Eastern
`
`Standard Time thereof, before me, Kathleen A.
`
`Wilkins, RPR-RMR-CRR-CCRR-CLR-CRC, a Certified
`
`Stenographic Shorthand Reporter, in and for the
`
`State of California, personally appeared MARTIN
`
`WALKER, PH.D., remotely via Zoom videoconference, a
`
`witness in the above-entitled court and cause, who,
`
`being by me first remotely duly sworn, was thereupon
`
`examined as a witness in said action.
`
`GregoryEdwards, LLC | Worldwide Court Reporting
`GregoryEdwards.com | 866-4Team GE
`
`Parus Exhibit 2061, Page 2 of 62
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`Martin Walker, Ph.D. - May 11, 2021
`
`Page 3
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` APPEARANCES OF COUNSEL
`
`FOR THE PETITIONERS:
`
` (Via Zoom Videoconference)
` WOLF, GREENFIELD & SACKS, P.C.
` 600 Atlantic Avenue
` Boston, Massachussets 02210-2206
` By: ANANT K. SARASWAT, ESQ.
` ELISABETH H. HUNT, ESQ.
` Telephone: (617) 646-8000
` Email: Anant.Saraswat@WolfGreenfield.com
` ehunt-ptab@wolfgreenfield.com
`
`FOR THE PATENT OWNER:
`
` (Via Zoom Videoconference)
` MINTZ, LEVIN, COHN, FERRIS, GLOVSKY
` AND POPEO, P.C.
` One Financial Center
` Boston, Massachussets 02111
` BY: SEAN M. CASEY, ESQ.
` MICHAEL J. MCNAMARA, ESQ.
` Telephone: (617) 348-1884
` E-mail: Smcasey@mintz.com
` mmcnamara@mintz.com
`
`GregoryEdwards, LLC | Worldwide Court Reporting
`GregoryEdwards.com | 866-4Team GE
`
`Parus Exhibit 2061, Page 3 of 62
`
`
`
`Martin Walker, Ph.D. - May 11, 2021
`
`Page 4
`
` INDEX
`
` INDEX OF EXAMINATIONS
`
` PAGE
`
`Morning Session 5
`
` QUESTIONS WITNESS INSTRUCTED NOT TO ANSWER
`
` PAGE LINE
`
` 50 15
`
` I N D E X
`
` PAGE
`
`Examination by Mr. Casey 5
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`Parus Exhibit 2061, Page 4 of 62
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`
`
`Martin Walker, Ph.D. - May 11, 2021
`
`Page 5
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`MAY 11, 2021 7:02 A.M. EASTERN STANDARD TIME
`
` P R O C E E D I N G S
`
` MORNING SESSION
`
` MR. CASEY: Should we do introductions
`
`with counsel?
`
` THE REPORTER: Only if you want to. I
`
`have you all.
`
` MR. CASEY: Okay. No need, then.
`
` MARTIN WALKER, Ph.D.,
`
` sworn as a witness,
`
` testified as follows:
`
` EXAMINATION BY MR. CASEY
`
`BY MR. CASEY:
`
` Q. Good morning, Mr. Walker.
`
` A. Good morning.
`
` Q. Thank you for taking the time this
`
`morning.
`
` Can you hear okay?
`
` A. I can hear you just fine.
`
` Q. Okay. Great.
`
` Dr. Walker, have you ever been deposed
`
`before?
`
` A. I have.
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`Parus Exhibit 2061, Page 5 of 62
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`Martin Walker, Ph.D. - May 11, 2021
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` Q. And about how many times?
`
` A. Quite a few -- well, 50, 60, 70 times.
`
` Q. Well, then, so you know how this works.
`
`I'm going to ask you some questions today regarding
`
`your declaration. I'm going to ask that you pause
`
`after I ask a question so that your counsel can
`
`object if they wish. But after an objection, unless
`
`counsel instructs you not to answer, I'll expect you
`
`to answer.
`
` Does that sound good?
`
` A. I understand.
`
` Q. I also ask that you answer verbally in
`
`order to help the court reporter today.
`
` A. Good idea.
`
` Q. What's that?
`
` A. I said that's a good idea.
`
` Q. Right.
`
` If I ask you a question that's confusing,
`
`let me know, and I'll try to break it up into
`
`smaller questions. I'm not trying to confuse you.
`
` And I also have a tendency to mumble. So
`
`if you don't understand anything I'm saying, just
`
`please let me know, and I'll repeat the question.
`
` A. Will do.
`
` Q. Okay. So if that all sounds good, I'd
`
`GregoryEdwards, LLC | Worldwide Court Reporting
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`
`Parus Exhibit 2061, Page 6 of 62
`
`
`
`Martin Walker, Ph.D. - May 11, 2021
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`Page 7
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`like to start with your CV, if you have that, and
`
`talk about it briefly.
`
` A. Sure.
`
` Q. If it's easier --
`
` A. The CV is not in my -- my notebook here
`
`that was prepared for me for -- for today's
`
`deposition. I do have an electronic copy of what
`
`was submitted.
`
` Q. I'm just going to ask you some general
`
`questions about it. They're not -- if you don't
`
`remember something, that's perfectly fine.
`
` That sound good?
`
` A. Sure. That sounds fine.
`
` MR. SARASWAT: Sean, we have a PDF of the
`
`exhibit that was filed.
`
` MR. CASEY: It's up to you. If he can't
`
`answer this, it's not a big deal. I just want to go
`
`over his work history. That's all.
`
` Does that work?
`
` MR. SARASWAT: Sure. Yeah.
`
`BY MR. CASEY:
`
` Q. Okay. On your CV, it says from 1973 to
`
`1980, you were employed by Watkins-Johnson; is that
`
`correct?
`
` A. That's correct.
`
`GregoryEdwards, LLC | Worldwide Court Reporting
`GregoryEdwards.com | 866-4Team GE
`
`Parus Exhibit 2061, Page 7 of 62
`
`
`
`Martin Walker, Ph.D. - May 11, 2021
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`Page 8
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` Q. And your CV says that you were a member of
`
`the technical staff there; is that right?
`
` A. That's correct.
`
` Q. And could you just briefly discuss what
`
`your duties were as a member of the technical staff.
`
` A. Yes. I wrote computer software which is
`
`of particular relevance to the -- our discussions
`
`today, but as well as I designed microwave
`
`integrated circuits.
`
` Q. Okay. When you were at Watkins-Johnson,
`
`do you know how many people were there working at
`
`the time? A large company? A small company?
`
` A. Hundreds.
`
` Q. Hundreds. Large. Thank you.
`
` From 1980 to 1983, your CV says you were
`
`employed by COMSAT?
`
` A. Yes. That's right.
`
` Q. And at COMSAT, your position was director
`
`of microwave systems, correct?
`
` A. That's correct.
`
` Q. And similarly, as director of microwave
`
`systems, what did your duties at COMSAT consist of?
`
` A. With -- I was responsible for developing a
`
`software system for use in manufacturing and
`
`production and test of microwave components. I also
`
`GregoryEdwards, LLC | Worldwide Court Reporting
`GregoryEdwards.com | 866-4Team GE
`
`Parus Exhibit 2061, Page 8 of 62
`
`
`
`Martin Walker, Ph.D. - May 11, 2021
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`worked on software to design microwave components.
`
` Q. Okay. Thank you.
`
` And when you were at COMSAT, about how
`
`many people were working there at the time, roughly?
`
` MR. SARASWAT: Objection. Objection.
`
`Scope.
`
` THE WITNESS: The -- roughly -- well, I
`
`worked at a subsidiary of COMSAT, which was called
`
`COMSAT General Integrated Systems. And COMSAT was a
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`large company. Thousands of employees.
`
`BY MR. CASEY:
`
` Q. Okay.
`
` A. But CGIS was probably 100 employees at
`
`most.
`
` Q. Okay. Thank you.
`
` And then after COMSAT, it says on your CV
`
`that you worked at Analog Design Tools; is that
`
`right?
`
` A. That's correct.
`
` Q. And at Analog Design Tools, you were a
`
`founder, the director and founding CEO and chief
`
`scientist, correct?
`
` A. That's correct.
`
` Q. And then from 1990s to '95, you were
`
`employed by Symmetry Design Systems; is that right?
`
`GregoryEdwards, LLC | Worldwide Court Reporting
`GregoryEdwards.com | 866-4Team GE
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`Parus Exhibit 2061, Page 9 of 62
`
`
`
`Martin Walker, Ph.D. - May 11, 2021
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`Page 10
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` A. That's correct.
`
` Q. And at Symmetry Design Systems, you held
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`the positions of founder, director, and executive
`
`vice president.
`
` Does that sound right?
`
` A. That's right.
`
` Q. Moving on here, from 1995 to 2000, you
`
`were employed by Sequence Design, which was formerly
`
`known as Frequency Technology; is that right?
`
` A. That's also correct.
`
` Q. As Frequency Design, you also held the
`
`position of founder, founder and CEO, director, and
`
`CTO.
`
` Does that sound right?
`
` A. Yes, that sounds right.
`
` Q. And briefly, from 2000 to 2001, you were
`
`employed by Knowledge Networks --
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. -- according to your CV.
`
` A. That's correct.
`
` Q. And at Knowledge Networks --
`
` A. Mr. Casey, I'm pausing just to give my
`
`counsel a chance to object and make sure I
`
`understand your questions. I'm not pausing --
`
` Q. Understood.
`
`GregoryEdwards, LLC | Worldwide Court Reporting
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`
`Parus Exhibit 2061, Page 10 of 62
`
`
`
`Martin Walker, Ph.D. - May 11, 2021
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`Page 11
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` A. If I don't understand your question, I'll
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`let you know.
`
` Q. Understood. I'm sorry. I'm probably
`
`rapid firing here.
`
` Then from 2001 to the present, you've been
`
`employed by Brass Rat Group Incorporated; is that
`
`correct?
`
` A. Yes, that's correct.
`
` Q. Okay. So I'd like to walk through your
`
`declaration with you.
`
` Do you have that nearby?
`
` A. I do.
`
` MR. SARASWAT: And, Sean, just for
`
`clarity, are you referring to a specific one of the
`
`two declarations?
`
` MR. CASEY: I'm referring to his
`
`declaration regard -- 1053 for the '846 IPR.
`
` Q. Are you all set, Dr. Walker?
`
` A. I am.
`
` Q. If I could direct you to paragraph 9 of
`
`your declaration, which is on page 2, at the bottom.
`
`At the bottom of page 2.
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. Here in paragraph 9, you indicate that you
`
`have experience with various computer program
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`GregoryEdwards, LLC | Worldwide Court Reporting
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`Parus Exhibit 2061, Page 11 of 62
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`
`
`Martin Walker, Ph.D. - May 11, 2021
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`Page 12
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`languages, including C and Perl?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. And in the next sentence, you continue to
`
`indicate that you've worked with these two languages
`
`for about 40 years; is that accurate?
`
` A. Yes, that's correct.
`
` Q. Would you say you have more experience in
`
`C or Perl?
`
` A. Difficult to say. I first started writing
`
`in the C programming language during a phase of my
`
`professional career that you didn't ask me about,
`
`which was my research at Stanford University. So
`
`that. And I first started using Perl somewhat later
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`than that, probably in the '90s.
`
` But since then -- so the total amount of
`
`experience in years, I have more experience with C
`
`than Perl. But recently I've been using -- written
`
`much more code in Perl as part of my consulting
`
`activities.
`
` Q. And moving further along, in paragraph 9,
`
`you indicate that you've used Concurrent Version
`
`Systems in the past for over 25 years; is that
`
`accurate?
`
` A. That's -- yes. That's accurate.
`
` Q. And can you briefly describe what a CVS
`
`GregoryEdwards, LLC | Worldwide Court Reporting
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`
`Parus Exhibit 2061, Page 12 of 62
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`
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`Martin Walker, Ph.D. - May 11, 2021
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`Page 13
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`system is.
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` A. CVS is referred to as a source code
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`repository. It helps software engineers manage --
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`perform version control for their -- for projects,
`
`among other uses.
`
` Q. And why would one use a CVS system with
`
`source code?
`
` MR. SARASWAT: Objection. Scope.
`
` THE WITNESS: There's lots of different
`
`reasons for doing that in different situations. I
`
`use CVS to forget -- for example, manage the work
`
`that I do creating -- creating software or other
`
`configuration documents. But generally it's used to
`
`manage control of software systems, software --
`
`computer software, I should say.
`
`BY MR. CASEY:
`
` Q. And what types of CVS systems do you have
`
`experience working with?
`
` MR. SARASWAT: Objection. Form and scope.
`
` THE WITNESS: I don't understand what you
`
`mean. What -- I don't understand what you mean
`
`by -- about "types of CVS systems."
`
`BY MR. CASEY:
`
` Q. Are there different types of source code
`
`repos- -- source code version systems?
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`GregoryEdwards, LLC | Worldwide Court Reporting
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`Parus Exhibit 2061, Page 13 of 62
`
`
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`Martin Walker, Ph.D. - May 11, 2021
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` A. There's many different --
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` MR. SARASWAT: Objection. Form and scope.
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` THE WITNESS: There's many different types
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`of version control systems or source code management
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`systems. But as far as I know -- well, CVS has
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`evolved over the 25 years that I've used it, but
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`it's still pretty much the same operations.
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`BY MR. CASEY:
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` Q. Are you familiar with the concept of
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`branches in CVS?
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` MR. SARASWAT: Objection. Form and scope.
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` THE WITNESS: I am.
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`BY MR. CASEY:
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` Q. And what are branches used for in CVS?
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` MR. SARASWAT: Objection. Scope.
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` THE WITNESS: Branches can be used for
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`many different reasons, different -- different --
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`different goals. I think you'd need to -- they're
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`used in different situations for different reasons.
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`BY MR. CASEY:
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` Q. Can branches be used to make changes to
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`source code files?
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` MR. SARASWAT: Objection. Form and scope.
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` THE WITNESS: That's not how I use the
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`term "branches."
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`Parus Exhibit 2061, Page 14 of 62
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`Martin Walker, Ph.D. - May 11, 2021
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` Q. How would you use the term "branches"?
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` A. Put it a little bit differently --
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` (Reporter clarification.)
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` MR. SARASWAT: Yes, there was. There was
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`an objection to scope.
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` THE REPORTER: Thank you.
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` THE WITNESS: Branches can store changes
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`to this. One can use branches to store changes to
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`source code.
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`BY MR. CASEY:
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` Q. Are you familiar with the concept of tags?
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` MR. SARASWAT: Objection. Form and scope.
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` THE WITNESS: I am.
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`BY MR. CASEY:
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` Q. Are you familiar with the concept of
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`merging in CVS?
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` MR. SARASWAT: Objection. Form and scope.
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` THE WITNESS: Yes. I'm familiar with the
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`concept of merging in CVS.
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`BY MR. CASEY:
`
` Q. Okay. Let's move to paragraph 11 of your
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`declaration.
`
` A. I'm here.
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` Q. And there's a table after it. And this
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`Parus Exhibit 2061, Page 15 of 62
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`Martin Walker, Ph.D. - May 11, 2021
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`Page 16
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`lists all the exhibits or the materials that you
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`considered for your declaration; is that accurate?
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` A. This is intended to be a list of all of
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`the material that I've reviewed in -- that I -- that
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`I considered in the -- in forming my opinions.
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` Q. Okay. Anything missing from that table?
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` MR. SARASWAT: Objection. Scope.
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` THE WITNESS: I -- I was -- I also
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`reviewed the -- the two patents at issue, the '431
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`patent and the '084 patent.
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`BY MR. CASEY:
`
` Q. Okay. If I could direct you to
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`paragraph 16.
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` Are you there?
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` A. I am here.
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` Q. Okay. So in the second sentence, you say:
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` "However, even if they could,
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` I find no evidence cited in
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` Mr. Casey's declaration that
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` purports to show the WA-2 source
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` code alleged to meet claim
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` elements 1.E to 1.K was ever filed
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` to generate executable binary
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` program that run on the server
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` that is alleged to meet the claim
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`Parus Exhibit 2061, Page 16 of 62
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`
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`Martin Walker, Ph.D. - May 11, 2021
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`Page 17
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` computer."
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` Do you see that?
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` A. I do.
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` Q. And I understand you read Mr. Kurganov's
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`declaration. Is that correct?
`
` A. I did.
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` Q. And in Mr. Kurganov's declaration, he
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`claimed that the system was up and working; is that
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`accurate?
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` MR. SARASWAT: Objection. Form.
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` THE WITNESS: I don't have Mr. Kurganov's
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`declaration memorized. If you'd like to point me to
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`some particular point of the declaration, I'd be
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`glad to comment on that.
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`BY MR. CASEY:
`
` Q. Okay. Just give me one second.
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` So if I could direct you to Mr. Kurganov's
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`declaration, which is Exhibit 2020.
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` Do you have that?
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` A. Just one second.
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` Q. Sure.
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` A. Okay. I have that in front of me.
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` Q. If I could direct you to the end of
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`paragraph 10, which is on page 7 of this
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`declaration, at the top.
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`Parus Exhibit 2061, Page 17 of 62
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`
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`Martin Walker, Ph.D. - May 11, 2021
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`Page 18
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` A. Let's see. I'm at the top of page.
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` Q. The statement there, it says:
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` "No later than December 31st,
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` 1999, we had a working
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` speech-activated web browser system
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` as part of the Weebly assistant
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` that included all the features
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` claimed in the '431 and '084
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` patents."
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` Do you see that?
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` A. I see that statement.
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` Q. And do you have any reason to believe that
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`Mr. Kurganov is not accurate there?
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` MR. SARASWAT: Objection. Form.
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` THE WITNESS: Well, I -- let's see. My
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`statement is that he -- he -- that this -- excuse
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`me.
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` My statement is that Mr. Kurganov's
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`declaration does not provide evidence that shows
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`that there was an embodiment meeting all limitations
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`of the Claim Elements 1 through -- 1A through 1K.
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`BY MR. CASEY:
`
` Q. Okay. So -- okay. Let's move to
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`paragraph 17 of your declaration, please.
`
` A. Yes. I'm at paragraph 17.
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`Parus Exhibit 2061, Page 18 of 62
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`Martin Walker, Ph.D. - May 11, 2021
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` Q. And there in paragraph 17, you point to
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`two of the source code files mc_vm.c and mcall.h.
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` Do you see that?
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` A. Yes. I see that.
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` By the way, I pronounce that "mcall.h."
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` Q. Okay. Thank you.
`
` And these two files are written in the C
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`program language; is that accurate?
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` A. That's correct.
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` Q. And then you discuss in this paragraph
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`what a compiler is and what a compiler is used for;
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`is that accurate?
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` MR. SARASWAT: Objection. Form.
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` THE WITNESS: Yeah. Are you asking me
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`whether it is accurate that I discuss what a
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`compiler is used for or is it -- or are you asking
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`me is my description --
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`BY MR. CASEY:
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` Q. I'm asking you if what I'm
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`characterizing -- I'm not mischaracterizing you.
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`That's what I'm asking. Let me rephrase the
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`question to make it easier.
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` In paragraph 17, you discuss what a
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`compiler is used for along with a linker, correct?
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` MR. SARASWAT: Objection. Form.
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`Parus Exhibit 2061, Page 19 of 62
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`Martin Walker, Ph.D. - May 11, 2021
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`Page 20
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` THE WITNESS: That's generally correct.
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`BY MR. CASEY:
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` Q. Is there anything you'd want to change?
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` MR. SARASWAT: Objection. Form.
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` THE WITNESS: It's correct that I
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`generally discuss what a compiler is used for.
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`BY MR. CASEY:
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` Q. And a compiler is -- and -- is used to
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`compile source code files. And along with a linker,
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`it can create a binary executable program, correct?
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` MR. SARASWAT: Objection. Form.
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` THE WITNESS: That's -- that's generally
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`correct. And also correct for C programs in
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`particular.
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`BY MR. CASEY:
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` Q. Yeah. So we're talking about C here, not
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`Perl, just to be clear.
`
` And at the bottom of paragraph 17, on
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`page 8, after the footnote, you indicate:
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` "I find no evidence cited in
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` Mr. Kurganov's declaration to show
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` that MC_VM.C or mcall.h were
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` compiled to generate an executable
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` binary program that then run on the
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` server alleged to meet the claim
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`Parus Exhibit 2061, Page 20 of 62
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`Martin Walker, Ph.D. - May 11, 2021
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` computer."
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` What sort of evidence would you need that
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`would indicate that it was compiled to generate an
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`executable binary program?
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` MR. SARASWAT: Objection. Form and scope.
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` THE WITNESS: Just to be clear, I don't
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`see the language that you read. Can you point me to
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`that more specifically.
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`BY MR. CASEY:
`
` Q. Sure. On page 8, near the bottom.
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` A. Yes.
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` Q. Right after the footnote, the sentence
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`that begins with "I find no evidence."
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` A. I see.
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` Q. Would you like me to repeat the question?
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` A. No. Let's see. So -- you're asking me a
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`hypothetical question of what's -- what evidence.
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` As an initial matter, my assignment was to
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`review the content, review Mr. Kurganov's
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`declaration, and comment on the comments -- comment
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`on the characterizations that he made to the
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`program, that he makes of the -- in his declaration.
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` My job was not to perform or effectively
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`do his work for him and identify the -- and
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`identify, address particular hypothesis about what
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`Parus Exhibit 2061, Page 21 of 62
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`Martin Walker, Ph.D. - May 11, 2021
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`Page 22
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`he could have or should have included in his
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`declaration.
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` So, again, my -- my job was to merely --
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`to comment on what is in his declaration, not what
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`should have or could have been in his declaration.
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` Q. Is there anything in Mr. Kurganov's
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`declaration that would lead you to believe that the
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`mc_vm.c or mcall.h files were not compiled to
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`generate an executable binary program?
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` MR. SARASWAT: Objection. Form and scope.
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` THE WITNESS: So are you dividing my
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`statement up into multiple subparts here, or are you
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`intending to -- to address the entirety of my -- of
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`my statement?
`
`BY MR. CASEY:
`
` Q. Well, I'm not trying to -- I'd be happy to
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`ask you a question about the whole statement. I
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`just don't want to confuse you if it's too long.
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` Do you want to take it apart, or do you
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`want me to ask the question with regards to the
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`whole statement?
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` A. I'd like you to ask me the questions you'd
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`like to ask me.
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` Q. Okay. So at the bottom of paragraph 17,
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`where we were just reading, and it says:
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`Parus Exhibit 2061, Page 22 of 62
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`Martin Walker, Ph.D. - May 11, 2021
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` "I find no evidence cited in
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` Mr. Kurganov's declaration to show
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` that MC_VM.C or mcall.h were
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` compiled to generate an executable
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` binary program that was run" --
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` "that was then run on the server
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` alleged to meet the claim
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` computer."
`
` And then you continue:
`
` "In fact, I find no evidence
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` in Mr. Kurganov's declaration to
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` show that those files were ever
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` compiled at all, nor that any
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` executable binary program generated
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` from the source code files
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` Mr. Kurganov's declaration cites
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` was deployed and executed at any
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` computer at any time."
`
` My question to you is, is there evidence
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`in Mr. Kurganov's declaration that demonstrates that
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`MC_VM.C or mcall.h were compiled to generate an
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`executable binary program?
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` MR. SARASWAT: Objection. Form and scope.
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` THE WITNESS: I have read Mr. Kurganov's
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`declaration many times very carefully, and I've --
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`Parus Exhibit 2061, Page 23 of 62
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`Martin Walker, Ph.D. - May 11, 2021
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`and I found no evidence in his declaration that
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`supports the contention that the -- that these
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`programs were compiled and executed on a computer.
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`BY MR. CASEY:
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` Q. Is there anything in MC_BM or mcall.h that
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`would indicate to you that they would not be able to
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`be compiled to generate an executable binary
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`program?
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` MR. SARASWAT: Objection. Form and scope.
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` THE WITNESS: Mr. Kurganov provided no
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`evidence that these programs -- these files were
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`compiled. And he -- and he provided no evidence
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`that the files were separately -- well, linked to
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`create an executable. And he provided no evidence
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`that that executable was ever run.
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`BY MR. CASEY:
`
` Q. But you didn't see any evidence in your
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`review of Mr. Kurganov's materials that would
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`indicate that they were not able to be compiled; is
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`that correct?
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` MR. SARASWAT: Objection. Form and scope.
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` THE WITNESS: Let's see. Focusing on
`
`the -- I think you're asking me to -- whether the
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`MC_VM.C file was compiled.
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` Is there any evidence that it couldn't be
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`Parus Exhibit 2061, Page 24 of 62
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`Martin Walker, Ph.D. - May 11, 2021
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`compiled; is that -- is that the question?
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`BY MR. CASEY:
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` Q. Yes. That's the question.
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` MR. SARASWAT: Same objection.
`
` THE WITNESS: Again, my assignment was to
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`review the evidence in Mr. -- the evidence cited and
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`the characterizations made by Mr. Kurganov, and I
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`found no evidence in his declaration that the --
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`that the programs were -- were ever compiled.
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` MR. SARASWAT: So, sorry, just for
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`clarity, my objection was to the form and scope. I
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`guess I said "same objection."
`
`BY MR. CASEY:
`
` Q. So do you have an opinion whether the
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`source code files that Mr. Kurganov pointed to in
`
`his declaration, whether it was -- whether it was
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`able to be compiled into an executable binary
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`program or not, as you sit here today?
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` MR. SARASWAT: Objection. Form and scope.
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` THE WITNESS: If you're referring to the
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`files mc_vm.c and mcall.h, those two files by
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`themselves cannot be compiled to form an -- could
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`not be compiled to -- to create an executable
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`program.
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` There's lots of parts of the executable
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`Parus Exhibit 2061, Page 25 of 62
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`Martin Walker, Ph.D. - May 11, 2021
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`program that are outside of the mc_c- -- outside of
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`those two files. But that's -- but my -- again, my
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`opinion is and my assignment -- first my assignment
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`was to look for evidence cited by Mr. Kurganov to
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`support that these -- these programs -- these source
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`code files were compiled and linked to create a
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`binary executable. And I found no such evidence in
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`Mr. Kurganov's declaration.
`
`BY MR. CASEY:
`
` Q. So is it your opinion that the files that
`
`Mr. Kurganov pointed to in his declaration that were
`
`describing the WA-2 enhancements, that those files
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`would not be able to be used to be compiled --
`
`compiled to generate an executable binary program?
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` MR. SARASWAT: Objection. Form and scope.
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` THE WITNESS: That's not quite my opinion.
`
`My opinion is that there's no evidence that
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`Mr. Kurganov presented that those files were
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`compiled and linked with other files to create an
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`executable binary.
`
`BY MR. CASEY:
`
` Q. Do you have an opinion whether or not the
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`files cited by Mr. Kurganov could be compiled into
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`an executable binary program?
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` MR. SARASWAT: Objection. Form and scope.
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`Parus Exhibit 2061, Page 26 of 62
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`Martin Walker, Ph.D. - May 11, 2021
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`Page 27
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` THE WITNESS: I'm not -- I think that
`
`there's some technical language that's causing me to
`
`be confused by your question.
`
`BY MR. CASEY:
`
` Q. Okay. Which language is confusing you?
`
` MR. SARASWAT: Objection. Form.
`
` THE WITNESS: Well, I think you're
`
`conflating "compiling" and "linking."
`
`BY MR. CASEY:
`
` Q. Okay. So let's start with compiling.
`
` Do you have an opinion whether or not the
`
`evidence that Mr. Kurganov cited in his declaration
`
`and that you called out with the MC_BM.C and the
`
`mcall.h files are able to be compiled?
`
` MR. SARASWAT: Objection. Form and scope.
`
` THE WITNESS: I didn't -- excuse me. My
`
`assignment was to review the -- Mr. Kurganov's
`
`declaration and the evidence in his declaration and
`
`to comment on that evidence. And my -- and my
`
`opinion is that Mr. Kurganov provided no evidence
`
`that those files were compiled.
`
` So I have no evidence one way or the
`
`other, and I don't -- about
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