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`MOTHERSON
`EXHIBIT 1020
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`MOTHERSON
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`EXHIBIT 1020
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`Page 1
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`·1· · · · · · · · · ·MICHAEL NRANIAN
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`·2· · · · UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
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`·3· · · · · · · · ·____________________
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`·4· · · · BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
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`·5· · · · · · · · · ___________________
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`·6
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`·7· · · · · · ·MOTHERSON INNOVATIONS CO., LTD.,
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`·8· · · · · · · Petitioner,
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`·9· · · · · · ·V.
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`10· · · · · · ·MAGNA MIRRORS OF AMERICA, INC.,
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`11· · · · · · ·Patent Owner.
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`12· · · · · · ·___________________
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`13· · · · · · ·Inter Partes Review No. IPR2020-00777
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`14· · · · · · ·U.S. Patent No. 10,261,648
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`15
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`16
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`17
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`18
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`19· ·The Deposition of MICHAEL NRANIAN,
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`20· ·Taken at 2723 South State Street,
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`21· ·Ann Arbor, Michigan,
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`22· ·Commencing at 9:04 a.m.,
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`23· ·Friday, February 26, 2021,
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`24· ·Before Laurel A. Frogner, RMR, CRR, CSR-2495.
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`25· ·Job No: 190270
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`TSG Reporting - Worldwide· · 877-702-9580TSG Reporting - Worldwide· · 877-702-9580
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`Motherson Innovations v. Magna Mirrors
`Motherson Exhibit 1020
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`·1· · · · · · · · · · · · MICHAEL NRANIAN
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`Page 2
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`·2· ·APPEARANCES:
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`·3· ·MR. KENNETH LUCHESI, ESQ. (Via Zoom)
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`·4· ·Jones Day
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`·5· ·901 Lakeside Avenue
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`·6· ·Cleveland, OH 44114
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`·7· · · · Appearing on behalf of the Petitioner
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`·8
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`·9
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`10
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`11· ·MR. DENNIS ABDELNOUR, ESQ. (Via Zoom)
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`12· ·Honigman
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`13· ·155 North Wacker Drive
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`14· ·Chicago, IL 60606
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`15· · · · Appearing on behalf of the Respondent
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`16
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`17
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`18
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`19
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`20· ·ALSO PRESENT:· Joel Coriat, Videographer
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`21· · · · · · · · · · · · · ·*· *· *· *· *· * *
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`22
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`TSG Reporting - Worldwide· · 877-702-9580TSG Reporting - Worldwide· · 877-702-9580
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`Motherson Innovations v. Magna Mirrors
`Motherson Exhibit 1020
`
`
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`·1· · · · · · · · · · · · MICHAEL NRANIAN
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`Page 3
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`·2
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`·3· · · · · · · · · · · ·TABLE OF CONTENTS
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`·4· ·Witness· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · Page
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`·5· ·EXAMINATION BY MR. LUCHESI· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·6
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`·6· ·EXAMINATION BY MR. ABDELNOUR· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 89
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`·7· ·FURTHER EXAMINATION BY MR. LUCHESI· · · · · · · · · · · · 92
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`·8
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`·9
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`10
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`11
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`12· · · · · · · · · · · ·INDEX TO EXHIBITS
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`13· · · · · · · · (Exhibits attached to transcript)
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`14
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`15· ·Exhibit· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · Page
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`16· ·EXHIBIT 1,· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·7
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`17· ·MICHAEL NRANIAN CURRICULUM VITAE
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`18
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`19· ·EXHIBIT 2,· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 31
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`20· ·DECLARATION OF MICHAEL NRANIAN
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`21· ·IN SUPPORT OF PATENT OWNER MAGNA MIRRORS
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`22· ·OF AMERICA, INC.
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`23
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`24· ·EXHIBIT 3,· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 35
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`25· ·PATENT NO. US 10,261,648 B2
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`TSG Reporting - Worldwide· · 877-702-9580TSG Reporting - Worldwide· · 877-702-9580
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`Motherson Innovations v. Magna Mirrors
`Motherson Exhibit 1020
`
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`·1· · · · · · · · · · · · MICHAEL NRANIAN
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`Page 4
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`·2
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`·3· ·EXHIBIT 4,· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 52
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`·4· ·SUPPLEMENTAL DECLARATION OF MICHAEL NRANIAN
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`·5· ·IN SUPPORT OF PATENT OWNER MAGNA MIRRORS OF
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`·6· ·AMERICA, INC.
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`·7
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`·8
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`·9
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`10
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`TSG Reporting - Worldwide· · 877-702-9580TSG Reporting - Worldwide· · 877-702-9580
`
`YVer1f
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`Motherson Innovations v. Magna Mirrors
`Motherson Exhibit 1020
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`Page 5
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`·1· · · · · · · · · ·MICHAEL NRANIAN
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`·2· · · · · · · · · Ann Arbor, Michigan
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`·3· · · · · · · · · Friday, February 26, 2021
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`·4· · · · · · · · · About 9:04 a.m.
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`·5· · · · · · ·THE VIDEOGRAPHER:· My name is Joel Coriat.
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`·6· ·I am a certified legal videographer in association
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`·7· ·with TSG Reporting, Inc.
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`·8· · · · · · ·Due to the severity of the COVID-19 and
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`·9· ·following the practice of social distancing, I will
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`10· ·not be in the same room with the witness.· Instead, I
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`11· ·will record his videotape deposition remotely.
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`12· · · · · · ·Do all parties stipulate to the validity of
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`13· ·this remote recording and that it will be admissible
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`14· ·in the courtroom as if it had been taken following
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`15· ·Rule 30 of the Federal Rules of Civil Procedures and
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`16· ·State rules where this case is pending?
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`17· · · · · · ·MR. ABDELNOUR:· Yes.
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`18· · · · · · ·MR. LUCHESI:· Yes, Petitioner does.
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`19· · · · · · ·THE VIDEOGRAPHER:· Thank you.
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`20· · · · · · ·This is the start of Media Number 1 of the
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`21· ·video recorded deposition of Michael Nranian in the
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`22· ·matter of Motherson Innovations Co. Ltd, versus Magna
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`23· ·Mirrors of America, Inc.
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`24· · · · · · ·Today's date is February 26, 2021.· The
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`25· ·time on the video monitor is now 9:05.· Will counsel
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`TSG Reporting - Worldwide· · 877-702-9580TSG Reporting - Worldwide· · 877-702-9580
`
`YVer1f
`
`Motherson Innovations v. Magna Mirrors
`Motherson Exhibit 1020
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`·1· · · · · · · · · · · · MICHAEL NRANIAN
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`·2· · · · please identify yourself for the record.
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`Page 6
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`·3· · · · · · · · · MR. LUCHESI:· For Petitioner, Kenny Luchesi
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`·4· · · · from Jones Day, and with me is also Robby Breetz from
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`·5· · · · Jones Day.
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`·6· · · · · · · · · MR. ABDELNOUR:· Dennis Abdelnour of
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`·7· · · · Honigman on behalf of Patent Owner Magna Mirrors of
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`·8· · · · America.· Along with me is David Thomas of Honigman.
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`·9· · · · · · · · · THE VIDEOGRAPHER:· Thank you.· The court
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`10· · · · reporter today is Laurel Frogner with TSG Reporting,
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`11· · · · Inc.· She is present with the witness and will
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`12· · · · administer the oath.
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`13· · · · · · · · · · · · · · MICHAEL NRANIAN,
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`14· · · · having first been duly sworn, was examined and
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`15· · · · testified on his oath as follows:
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`16· · · · · · · · · THE VIDEOGRAPHER:· Thank you.· You may be
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`17· · · · seated.
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`18· ·EXAMINATION BY MR. LUCHESI:
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`19· ·Q.· ·Good morning.
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`20· ·A.· ·Hi.
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`21· ·Q.· ·My name's Kenny Luchesi, as you've heard, and I
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`22· · · · represent the petitioner, Motherson Innovations.
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`23· · · · · · · · · Can you please state your full name and
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`24· · · · address for the record.
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`25· ·A.· ·Michael Nranian.
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`TSG Reporting - Worldwide· · 877-702-9580TSG Reporting - Worldwide· · 877-702-9580
`
`YVer1f
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`Motherson Innovations v. Magna Mirrors
`Motherson Exhibit 1020
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`·1· · · · · · · · · · · · MICHAEL NRANIAN
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`·2· ·Q.· ·And your address?
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`Page 7
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`·3· ·A.· ·10945 Stoney Point, South Lyon, Michigan, 48178.
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`·4· ·Q.· ·I understand you've been deposed once or twice?
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`·5· ·A.· ·Yeah.
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`·6· ·Q.· ·So you're pretty familiar with how this works?
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`·7· ·A.· ·Yeah.
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`·8· ·Q.· ·So I'll just ask is there any reason you can't give
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`·9· · · · truthful testimony today?
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`10· ·A.· ·No.
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`11· ·Q.· ·All right.· Let's go ahead and mark the document
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`12· · · · that's currently labeled as Exhibit 2002, and we'll
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`13· · · · mark that as Nranian Exhibit 1.· Did I say that
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`14· · · · right?
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`15· ·A.· ·Yeah, that's fine.
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`16· · · · · · ·EXHIBIT 1,
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`17· · · · · · ·MICHAEL NRANIAN CURRICULUM VITAE,
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`18· · · · · · ·WAS MARKED BY THE REPORTER
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`19· · · · · · ·FOR IDENTIFICATION
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`20· · · · · · · · · MR. LUCHESI:· Does anyone need this shared
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`21· · · · on the screen, or does everyone have their own copy?
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`22· · · · · · · · · MR. ABDELNOUR:· Yeah, I've got the copy.
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`23· ·BY MR. LUCHESI:
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`24· ·Q.· ·Okay.· Do you recognize this document?
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`25· ·A.· ·Yes, sir.
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`
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`TSG Reporting - Worldwide· · 877-702-9580TSG Reporting - Worldwide· · 877-702-9580
`
`YVer1f
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`Motherson Innovations v. Magna Mirrors
`Motherson Exhibit 1020
`
`
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`·1· · · · · · · · · · · · MICHAEL NRANIAN
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`·2· ·Q.· ·This is your CV, right?
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`·3· ·A.· ·Yes, sir.
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`·4· ·Q.· ·And is this current and correct?
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`Page 8
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`·5· ·A.· ·There's some more depositions like, for example, this
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`·6· · · · was turned in, you know, back in July, I think,
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`·7· · · · right, and there's some more current.· If you look at
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`·8· · · · the deposition list --
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`·9· ·Q.· ·Yes.
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`10· ·A.· ·-- there's some more depositions that have happened
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`11· · · · since that time.
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`12· ·Q.· ·Okay.· Do you know about how many?
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`13· ·A.· ·Yeah.· I have a newer one.· I think there were three
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`14· · · · or four.
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`15· ·Q.· ·Okay.
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`16· ·A.· ·Actually, there was three, but one of them there
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`17· · · · was -- I think there were three, but one of them I
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`18· · · · started at my house and the Zoom was screwing all up,
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`19· · · · so we had to postpone it a week so we could get
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`20· · · · someplace where we had an Ethernet connection.
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`21· ·Q.· ·Well, let's hope that doesn't happen today.
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`22· ·A.· ·Yeah.
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`23· ·Q.· ·So talk about your education for just a minute.· You
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`24· · · · have a number of degrees.· Could you kind of just
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`25· · · · walk me through your education if you don't mind?
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`
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`TSG Reporting - Worldwide· · 877-702-9580TSG Reporting - Worldwide· · 877-702-9580
`
`YVer1f
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`Motherson Innovations v. Magna Mirrors
`Motherson Exhibit 1020
`
`
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`·1· · · · · · · · · · · · MICHAEL NRANIAN
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`Page 9
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`·2· ·A.· ·Sure.· So my first degree was in chemical engineering
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`·3· · · · and that was at Wayne State.· Then I worked as an
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`·4· · · · advisor.· I went to intern at a Ford Mount Clemens
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`·5· · · · Vinyl Plant actually for a summer, and then I went
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`·6· · · · back, and I thought about going into pre-med, and
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`·7· · · · while I was doing that I was the Advisor for Chemical
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`·8· · · · Engineering.· Like I was -- worked as a -- then after
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`·9· · · · that I started working at Ford, and during my time at
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`10· · · · Ford I got my -- actually got my MS first and then my
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`11· · · · BS; my MS in electrical engineering, my BS in
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`12· · · · electrical and computer engineering.
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`13· · · · · · · · · So that was, you know, I got my MS in '91
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`14· · · · and my BS in '93.· I think I finished up my BS while
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`15· · · · I was at Allied Signal.
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`16· · · · · · · · · Then after that I got my juris doctor at
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`17· · · · night school at Wayne State, and I went from '95 to
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`18· · · · '99.
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`19· · · · · · · · · And then I got my MBA at Michigan, again at
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`20· · · · night.· So those are my degrees.
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`21· · · · · · · · · There's also a bunch of other
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`22· · · · certifications and qualifications.· I'm a Six Sigma
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`23· · · · Black Belt certified through American Society for
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`24· · · · Quality.· I'm a Licensed Professional Engineer.· I'm
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`25· · · · a Certified Project Management Professional.· I'm
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`TSG Reporting - Worldwide· · 877-702-9580TSG Reporting - Worldwide· · 877-702-9580
`
`YVer1f
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`Motherson Innovations v. Magna Mirrors
`Motherson Exhibit 1020
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`·1· · · · · · · · · · · · MICHAEL NRANIAN
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`·2· · · · certified in Accident Reconstruction through
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`Page 10
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`·3· · · · Northwestern University.· I also have -- and I don't
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`·4· · · · know if this is -- I'm also an Eagle Scout.
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`·5· · · · · · · · · I am also an attorney in Texas and in
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`·6· · · · Michigan with the State Bars there, and I'm
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`·7· · · · registered with the USPTO.· I'm also certified in a
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`·8· · · · lot of computer and cyber security stuff.· I don't
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`·9· · · · know if that's on here or not, now that I look at it.
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`10· · · · The new one might have it on there.· Security Plus,
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`11· · · · Network Plus, SANS 566, Implementing Security
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`12· · · · Controls.
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`13· · · · · · · · · There's another one -- oh, I'm a Certified
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`14· · · · Authorization Professional.· So I think that covers
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`15· · · · most of them, but there's something else there might
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`16· · · · be, so --
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`17· ·Q.· ·Is there anything on the second page that's not on
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`18· · · · the first page, or is that sort of duplicative of the
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`19· · · · two bullet lists on the first page?
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`20· ·A.· ·The second page?· Oh, oh, you mean --
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`21· ·Q.· ·The second page looks to be a repeat of all the
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`22· · · · bullets that are on the first page.
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`23· ·A.· ·Yeah, There might be.· I think there are some more
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`24· · · · cases, but there might not.· I honestly don't know
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`25· · · · if -- I mean there's Magna v TRW; Bradley v Fontaine
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`TSG Reporting - Worldwide· · 877-702-9580TSG Reporting - Worldwide· · 877-702-9580
`
`YVer1f
`
`Motherson Innovations v. Magna Mirrors
`Motherson Exhibit 1020
`
`
`
`·1· · · · · · · · · · · · MICHAEL NRANIAN
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`Page 11
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`·2· · · · Trailer; ATI v Siemens; Remy v. WAI; AVS v Takata --
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`·3· · · · you know what, that's not on the second page now that
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`·4· · · · I look at it -- oh, yeah, it is.· So the order might
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`·5· · · · be a little mixed up.· It's on the bottom there on
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`·6· · · · the third line of the second page.
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`·7· · · · · · · · · Lucent/Gateway/MPEG.· It doesn't look like
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`·8· · · · Tendler's on the first page.· It's on the second
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`·9· · · · page.· There was just not enough room to put them,
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`10· · · · like you know what I mean, so --
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`11· ·Q.· ·Yeah, I'm sorry.· I wasn't trying -- I wasn't
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`12· · · · questioning it; I was just curious.· I didn't do a
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`13· · · · word-for-word comparison between the two pages.· They
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`14· · · · look pretty similar.
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`15· ·A.· ·Yeah, they're pretty similar.· There might be some
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`16· · · · more cases on the second page because I just say
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`17· · · · cases include, you know, instead of like these are
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`18· · · · all the cases I've done.· So these are some of the
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`19· · · · cases, that's what I'm -- and there just wasn't
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`20· · · · enough room to put them on the first page.
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`21· ·Q.· ·So on the first page where it says Summary of
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`22· · · · Professional Experience --
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`23· ·A.· ·Yeah.
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`24· ·Q.· ·-- is that all of your jobs that you've had?
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`25· ·A.· ·Yeah.
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`TSG Reporting - Worldwide· · 877-702-9580TSG Reporting - Worldwide· · 877-702-9580
`
`YVer1f
`
`Motherson Innovations v. Magna Mirrors
`Motherson Exhibit 1020
`
`
`
`·1· · · · · · · · · · · · MICHAEL NRANIAN
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`·2· ·Q.· ·And are they in any kind of order?
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`Page 12
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`·3· ·A.· ·You know what, there should be a spot -- let me
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`·4· · · · direct you to something.· Hold on just a second.
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`·5· · · · · · · · · Look on where it says 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, look
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`·6· · · · on the 6th page.· See where on the 6th page it says
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`·7· · · · Summary of Professional Experience?
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`·8· ·Q.· ·Got it.
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`·9· ·A.· ·That's -- there wasn't enough room on that first
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`10· · · · page, so I put -- there's more on the 6th page, so
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`11· · · · that would be where you would -- and that has like
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`12· · · · the dates.· Look on the bottom, the bottom.
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`13· ·Q.· ·Yeah, I'm looking at that right now.
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`14· ·A.· ·Yeah.
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`15· ·Q.· ·All right.· So give me a second.· Let me look.
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`16· · · · There's some -- it looks like in 2007 you left Ford
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`17· · · · and went to Decker as a lawyer; is that right?
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`18· ·A.· ·Yes.
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`19· ·Q.· ·And then what did you do after that?
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`20· ·A.· ·I came back to Michigan.· That was when everything
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`21· · · · imploded, right?· Remember back when -- I came back
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`22· · · · to Michigan and started working at General Dynamics
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`23· · · · for like, you know.· That's when I really got
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`24· · · · involved in like stuff for the U.S. Army and the
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`25· · · · military.
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`TSG Reporting - Worldwide· · 877-702-9580TSG Reporting - Worldwide· · 877-702-9580
`
`YVer1f
`
`Motherson Innovations v. Magna Mirrors
`Motherson Exhibit 1020
`
`
`
`·1· · · · · · · · · · · · MICHAEL NRANIAN
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`·2· ·Q.· ·What did you do at General Dynamics?
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`Page 13
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`·3· ·A.· ·Worked on a lot of stuff for the Stryker military
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`·4· · · · vehicle.· Are you familiar with the Stryker?
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`·5· ·Q.· ·I'm not.
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`·6· ·A.· ·Okay.· It's a -- it's got -- it's not a tracked
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`·7· · · · vehicle like a tank.· It's got like four sets of
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`·8· · · · wheels, and there's all kinds of different variants.
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`·9· · · · So you could have one with a gun on it.· You could
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`10· · · · have one that does like biological/chemical analysis,
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`11· · · · you know.· There's all kinds of different ways to
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`12· · · · make it.
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`13· · · · · · · · · So I was involved a lot with the Stryker,
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`14· · · · and I did a lot of things that are called trade
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`15· · · · studies, which is where you're doing analysis of
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`16· · · · alternatives on different, you know, different, I
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`17· · · · would say, technologies, but also like different
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`18· · · · types of weapons systems or defense systems or even
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`19· · · · armor or things like that on these different variants
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`20· · · · for these different military vehicles.· It wasn't
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`21· · · · just on the Stryker.
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`22· · · · · · · · · General Dynamics makes the Abrams tank, you
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`23· · · · know, so a lot of things for military vehicles, a lot
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`24· · · · of -- like some of the things that I was involved in
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`25· · · · were something called 360 Degree Situational
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`TSG Reporting - Worldwide· · 877-702-9580TSG Reporting - Worldwide· · 877-702-9580
`
`YVer1f
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`Motherson Innovations v. Magna Mirrors
`Motherson Exhibit 1020
`
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`·1· · · · · · · · · · · · MICHAEL NRANIAN
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`Page 14
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`·2· · · · Awareness that involves a lot of sensing systems, and
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`·3· · · · they have periscopes and a lot of mirrors, too, on
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`·4· · · · those vehicles and a lot of vision systems.
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`·5· · · · · · · · · I mean, imagine this.· You're in, you know,
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`·6· · · · you're soldiers in these vehicles, right, and you
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`·7· · · · have to have 360 degree situational awareness because
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`·8· · · · if you pop your head out of the, you know, you open
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`·9· · · · the hatch and pop your head out, somebody's going to
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`10· · · · shoot you.
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`11· · · · · · · · · So a lot of -- there was a lot of camera
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`12· · · · systems, infrared cameras, you know, optical systems,
`
`13· · · · a lot of periscopes, a lot of lenses, even a lot of
`
`14· · · · mirrors for assessing whether it's safe to come out
`
`15· · · · or not.· So that's some of the, you know, that's some
`
`16· · · · of the stuff I did.
`
`17· ·Q.· ·Were you in the military?
`
`18· ·A.· ·No, I am not in the military, no.· I mean I work as a
`
`19· · · · civilian for the U.S. Army right now, but I was not a
`
`20· · · · soldier.
`
`21· ·Q.· ·All right.· And then it looks like you went back to
`
`22· · · · law for a few months at that point; is that right?
`
`23· ·A.· ·Yeah.· I was between contracts, and I worked at my
`
`24· · · · buddy's law firm, which is actually about -- that way
`
`25· · · · about, you know, maybe a quarter mile down, and I was
`
`
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`YVer1f
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`Motherson Innovations v. Magna Mirrors
`Motherson Exhibit 1020
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`·1· · · · · · · · · · · · MICHAEL NRANIAN
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`·2· · · · thinking about visiting him for a while.
`
`Page 15
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`·3· · · · · · · · · But, yeah, I worked there for about three
`
`·4· · · · or four months, because what happened was when I
`
`·5· · · · left -- that was -- I left General Dynamics and went
`
`·6· · · · to Raytheon.· So after General Dynamics I went to
`
`·7· · · · Raytheon, so that should be on there.· I think it is.
`
`·8· ·Q.· ·Oh, yeah, yep, I see it.
`
`·9· ·A.· ·And there I was actually working in the same -- up in
`
`10· · · · Warren.· Where are you guys at?· Are you guys in
`
`11· · · · Michigan or --
`
`12· ·Q.· ·I'm in Cleveland, Ohio.
`
`13· ·A.· ·Okay.· So there's a base, an Army base in Warren.· So
`
`14· · · · then I went from General Dynamics and worked for
`
`15· · · · Raytheon in Warren.· I did that for a year.
`
`16· · · · · · · · · And then after that the contract ran out,
`
`17· · · · but what happened was, they were going to bring me in
`
`18· · · · to work as another contractor for the U.S. Army.
`
`19· · · · · · · · · So between the time of getting the contract
`
`20· · · · approved and all the clearances and all that stuff, I
`
`21· · · · worked at my buddy's law firm for about three or four
`
`22· · · · months, and then I went back and I started working as
`
`23· · · · a contractor for the U.S. Army.
`
`24· · · · · · · · · And then in 2016 I came in as a civilian
`
`25· · · · employee instead of a contractor for the U.S. Army,
`
`
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`TSG Reporting - Worldwide· · 877-702-9580TSG Reporting - Worldwide· · 877-702-9580
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`Motherson Exhibit 1020
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`·1· · · · · · · · · · · · MICHAEL NRANIAN
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`·2· · · · and I've been doing that ever since.
`
`Page 16
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`·3· ·Q.· ·Got it.· So this time period February 2010 to
`
`·4· · · · July 2016, it says Intellectual Property Development
`
`·5· · · · - Chief Scientist's Office - Contractual.· What was
`
`·6· · · · that?
`
`·7· ·A.· ·Yes.· So I was under contract, and my job was
`
`·8· · · · actually -- because I have like we talk about all the
`
`·9· · · · degrees I have right now, the experience I have, what
`
`10· · · · they wanted me to do was work with all the inventors
`
`11· · · · to look at all these different types of military
`
`12· · · · systems and potentially come up with stuff that might
`
`13· · · · lead to patents.
`
`14· · · · · · · · · So I was, you know, doing a lot of work
`
`15· · · · with everything basically involved in that research
`
`16· · · · center which covers a lot of things to try and get
`
`17· · · · them so that it would turn it over to the government
`
`18· · · · attorneys so that they could potentially write
`
`19· · · · patents for it.
`
`20· · · · · · · · · So in that I learned a lot about all these
`
`21· · · · different types of military systems because I was
`
`22· · · · working with a bunch of Ph.D.s and, also, a bunch of,
`
`23· · · · you know, research staff and scientists, and even
`
`24· · · · like a lot of universities because a lot of things
`
`25· · · · that the military does is they have relationships
`
`
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`TSG Reporting - Worldwide· · 877-702-9580TSG Reporting - Worldwide· · 877-702-9580
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`YVer1f
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`·1· · · · · · · · · · · · MICHAEL NRANIAN
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`Page 17
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`·2· · · · with universities for research studies and things
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`·3· · · · like that, and also with like even other contractors
`
`·4· · · · that might be developing systems for the military.
`
`·5· ·Q.· ·Okay.· And then what did you say, in 2016 you moved
`
`·6· · · · to TARDEC/TACOM?
`
`·7· ·A.· ·It's the same place, but the name changed just about
`
`·8· · · · a year and a half ago to something called Development
`
`·9· · · · Command Ground Vehicle Systems Center.· And I work
`
`10· · · · right now in the Cyber Group like for in terms of
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`11· · · · like cyber systems, right, like you know how like
`
`12· · · · there's a lot of things that they're worried about
`
`13· · · · now is cyber and how the -- you know, how like a
`
`14· · · · potential, like the Chinese or the Russians or the
`
`15· · · · Iranians, you know, or the North Koreans, you know,
`
`16· · · · to give you an example, how they might come in and
`
`17· · · · just screw up all our cyber systems, right?
`
`18· · · · · · · · · So when you think about that, that involves
`
`19· · · · everything in the vehicle, because these are all
`
`20· · · · military land vehicles like Abrams tanks, Strykers,
`
`21· · · · like I talked about, you know, light armored
`
`22· · · · vehicles.· And a lot of things that what they do
`
`23· · · · there is actually a lot of robotics, too.
`
`24· · · · · · · · · So all these things have these different
`
`25· · · · types of communication systems, right, and these
`
`
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`TSG Reporting - Worldwide· · 877-702-9580TSG Reporting - Worldwide· · 877-702-9580
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`YVer1f
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`·1· · · · · · · · · ·MICHAEL NRANIAN
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`Page 18
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`·2· ·different types of data communication systems.· So
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`·3· ·you might be getting involved in Controller Area
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`·4· ·Networks like you see traditionally like in
`
`·5· ·automotive and trucking.
`
`·6· · · · · · ·Like a lot of the stuff that the Army buys
`
`·7· ·is actually from Caterpillar, you know, in terms of
`
`·8· ·the engines, or from Allison in terms of the
`
`·9· ·transmission.· So those are all like, you know, CAN
`
`10· ·bus systems, right, so you got CAN data transfer,
`
`11· ·right?
`
`12· · · · · · ·Now, when you start talking about, for
`
`13· ·example, robotics, they're different.· A lot of those
`
`14· ·are Ethernet or another system that's not Controller
`
`15· ·Area Network based.
`
`16· · · · · · ·So the thing is that when you're looking at
`
`17· ·these different things, right, and you're looking at
`
`18· ·these different vehicles, I even get involved in, for
`
`19· ·example, friend and foe target recognition.
`
`20· · · · · · ·And some of that even involves, for
`
`21· ·example, like, you know, even pertinent to what some
`
`22· ·of the things are in this patent, that may be even
`
`23· ·like periscopes, because one of the things they're
`
`24· ·worried about is potentially lasers being used to
`
`25· ·blind the sights.
`
`
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`TSG Reporting - Worldwide· · 877-702-9580TSG Reporting - Worldwide· · 877-702-9580
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`YVer1f
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`·1· · · · · · · · · ·MICHAEL NRANIAN
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`Page 19
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`·2· · · · · · ·And when I talk about sights, like sights
`
`·3· ·that we're trying to figure out when you're in the
`
`·4· ·vehicle like in a periscope or something.· So we --
`
`·5· ·you know, some of the things that are being developed
`
`·6· ·are ways to -- just like, you know, you have
`
`·7· ·electrochromic and electro-optic mirrors.· When you
`
`·8· ·hit a certain -- when you're hit with something with
`
`·9· ·a certain wavelength, you got to make sure it doesn't
`
`10· ·blind a soldier who's looking through the sight or
`
`11· ·blind the actual equipment that's looking through the
`
`12· ·sight, be it a camera, be it an IR receptor, you
`
`13· ·know, or whatever's involved.· So that's some of the
`
`14· ·things I do, too.
`
`15· · · · · · ·And, you know, it's pretty -- it's pretty
`
`16· ·broad when you think about all these different types
`
`17· ·of technologies that are involved in all these
`
`18· ·military vehicles.· And I get involved in all of them
`
`19· ·because when you start talking about cyber security,
`
`20· ·right, you're talking about the data transfer from
`
`21· ·all these different types of sensors to -- for
`
`22· ·example, either -- like one of the things that we do
`
`23· ·is something called C5ISR, and, you know, that
`
`24· ·involves computers, cyber, communications,
`
`25· ·intelligence, surveillance, reconnaissance, you know,
`
`
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`TSG Reporting - Worldwide· · 877-702-9580TSG Reporting - Worldwide· · 877-702-9580
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`YVer1f
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`Motherson Innovations v. Magna Mirrors
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`·1· · · · · · · · · · · · MICHAEL NRANIAN
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`·2· · · · controllers, and command.
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`Page 20
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`·3· · · · · · · · · So when you think about this network,
`
`·4· · · · all these different military vehicles, be they
`
`·5· · · · whatever, robots, be they Strykers, be they Abrams
`
`·6· · · · tanks, even soldiers with hand-held devices, there's
`
`·7· · · · this way where it goes through like, you know, like
`
`·8· · · · be it a tank or a Stryker or a soldier, it actually
`
`·9· · · · goes up and through satellite communications and then
`
`10· · · · comes back down to a mission command center.
`
`11· · · · · · · · · So, you know, that's some of the things
`
`12· · · · that we get involved in.· And I don't know how in
`
`13· · · · depth I can get into some of it because I do have a
`
`14· · · · security clearance, so I don't want to get into the
`
`15· · · · classified stuff, but that's what I've been doing
`
`16· · · · basically for the last 11 years or even more than
`
`17· · · · that, like 13 years.
`
`18· ·Q.· ·That sounds incredibly interesting.
`
`19· ·A.· ·Yeah, it is, actually.
`
`20· ·Q.· ·Has that been a full-time job for you?
`
`21· ·A.· ·Oh, yeah, it's a full-time job.
`
`22· ·Q.· ·So what is the thing at the very top, the Automotive
`
`23· · · · Design Analysis?· Is that like your consulting
`
`24· · · · company or --
`
`25· ·A.· ·Right.· So what I did was is that when I started
`
`
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`TSG Reporting - Worldwide· · 877-702-9580TSG Reporting - Worldwide· · 877-702-9580
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`YVer1f
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`Motherson Innovations v. Magna Mirrors
`Motherson Exhibit 1020
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`·1· · · · · · · · · · · · MICHAEL NRANIAN
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`Page 21
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`·2· · · · working for the military, like when you turn your
`
`·3· · · · stuff in to get your secret security clearance, for
`
`·4· · · · example, I told them right off the bat, look, I also
`
`·5· · · · consult.· I have my outside consulting practice.· So
`
`·6· · · · that's, you know, I've been doing that for a number
`
`·7· · · · of years, too.
`
`·8· · · · · · · · · So they know all about it, you know.· And,
`
`·9· · · · you know, they know that I have my outside consulting
`
`10· · · · practice.· That's what Automotive Design Analysis is.
`
`11· ·Q.· ·Can you estimate how much of your time is spent doing
`
`12· · · · your consulting work versus your work for the
`
`13· · · · military?
`
`14· ·A.· ·About half and half.
`
`15· ·Q.· ·Half and half?
`
`16· ·A.· ·Yeah.· I don't get any sleep, I really don't.· I just
`
`17· · · · don't have a life, man.· It's been like that since,
`
`18· · · · you know, I mean it's like -- go ahead, please.· I'm
`
`19· · · · sorry.
`
`20· ·Q.· ·No.· Trust me, I understand.
`
`21· · · · · · · · · So through this consulting work you're
`
`22· · · · not -- are you actually practicing law?· Are you
`
`23· · · · representing clients in court or are you -- what
`
`24· · · · exactly are you doing?
`
`25· ·A.· ·No, I don't do -- I'm sorry.· I didn't mean to --
`
`
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`TSG Reporting - Worldwide· · 877-702-9580TSG Reporting - Worldwide· · 877-702-9580
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`YVer1f
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`Motherson Innovations v. Magna Mirrors
`Motherson Exhibit 1020
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`·1· · · · · · · · · · · · MICHAEL NRANIAN
`
`·2· ·Q.· ·No, no, go ahead.
`
`Page 22
`
`·3· ·A.· ·So what I do is that because of all my technical,
`
`·4· · · · engineering, and scientific background, right, I
`
`·5· · · · don't offer any advice on law or anything.· I'm not
`
`·6· · · · doing anything in terms of attorney work whatsoever.
`
`·7· · · · · · · · · What I'm doing is I'm working as a
`
`·8· · · · technical consultant.· And you will see in my
`
`·9· · · · declaration, on everything that I write, any type of
`
`10· · · · report or anything that I write, as I state in my
`
`11· · · · declaration, and this is absolutely the way --
`
`12· ·Q.· ·You just put it over the camera.
`
`13· ·A.· ·Oh, sorry, oh, I didn't know the camera -- I thought
`
`14· · · · it was on top, I apologize.· Okay.
`
`15· · · · · · · · · For example, on Page 2, Paragraph 6,
`
`16· · · · "Although I have a law degree and I am licensed to
`
`17· · · · practice before the United States Patent and
`
`18· · · · Trademark Office, I have not been asked to opine on
`
`19· · · · any legal issues.· I will not be giving any legal
`
`20· · · · opinions throughout this declaration and throughout
`
`21· · · · my work on this matter.· My opinions are based on my
`
`22· · · · engineering, technical, scientific, automotive, and
`
`23· · · · business education and experience.· To the extent
`
`24· · · · that I apply legal standards, if I do, I was provided
`
`25· · · · those by counsel."
`
`
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`TSG Reporting - Worldwide· · 877-702-9580TSG Reporting - Worldwide· · 877-702-9580
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`YVer1f
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`Motherson Innovations v. Magna Mirrors
`Motherson Exhibit 1020
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`·1· · · · · · · · · · · · MICHAEL NRANIAN
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`·2· · · · · · · · · So nothing --
`
`Page 23
`
`·3· ·Q.· ·I understand that's what you're doing here.· I was
`
`·4· · · · actually just asking generally for your consulting
`
`·5· · · · business, is this the same type of work that you do
`
`·6· · · · where you provide -- you don't actually provide
`
`·7· · · · opinions on the legal standards or the legal aspects?
`
`·8· ·A.· ·Right, not at all.
`
`·9· ·Q.· ·Okay.· But you are familiar with them, right, as a
`
`10· · · · patent lawyer?
`
`11· ·A.· ·I'm familiar with them, not just as a patent lawyer,
`
`12· · · · but I'm familiar with them just because I've been
`
`13· · · · doing this kind of stuff for 20 years.· So it is part
`
`14· · · · of my background, but nothing that I do has to do
`
`15· · · · with anything related to me being an attorney
`
`16· · · · whatsoever.· It's all based on my objective
`
`17· · · · evaluation and my scientific, technical, and
`
`18· · · · engineering experience, you know, which I've been
`
`19· · · · doing since basically 1985.
`
`20· ·Q.· ·You say in the second line here clarification of
`
`21· · · · prior art.
`
`22· ·A.· ·Where?· I'm sorry.
`
`23· ·Q.· ·I'm sorry, back to Page 6 of your resume.
`
`24· ·A.· ·Okay.· Hold on.
`
`25· ·Q.· ·I'm just curious what you mean by clarification of
`
`
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`TSG Reporting - Worldwide· · 877-702-9580TSG Reporting - Worldwide· · 877-702-9580
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`YVer1f
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`Motherson Innovations v. Magna Mirrors
`Motherson Exhibit 1020
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`·1· · · · · · · · · · · · MICHAEL NRANIAN
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`·2· · · · prior art.
`
`Page 24
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`·3· ·A.· ·What that is is like some -- a lot of times attorneys
`
`·4· · · · don't understand the technical concepts of what's
`
`·5· · · · involved in these patents, so I'm their -- they call
`
`·6· · · · on me to -- not that any of these attorneys, they all
`
`·7· · · · have engineering -- you know, you guys all have an
`
`·8· · · · engineering, scientific background, but a lot of
`
`·9· · · · times attorneys don't, you know, so you have to
`
`10· · · · explain to them what it means so that they can
`
`11· · · · understand it.
`
`12· ·Q.· ·Got it.· Let's see.· You do product liability work,
`
`13· · · · too?
`
`14· ·A.· ·I have, yes.
`
`15· ·Q.· ·How much of your work is product liability versus
`
`16· · · · intellectual property?
`
`17· ·A.· ·Right now a lot of my work is not product liability,
`
`18· · · · but let me explain.· So my last -- from basically
`
`19· · · · 1999 to 2007 I worked at Ford Motor Company, and I
`
`20· · · · was w
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