Deposition of:
`Himanshu Pokharna , Ph.D.
`
`February 24, 2021
`
`In the Matter of:
`Asetek Danmark A/S v. Coolit Systems,
`Inc.
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
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`
`
`Himanshu Pokharna , Ph.D.
`
`February 24, 2021
`
`In the Matter of:
`Asetek Danmark A/S v. Coolit Systems,
`Inc.
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`800-734-5292 | calendar-dmv@veritext.com |
`
`
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`Page 1
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` UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
` ___________________________
`
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
` ___________________________
`
` ASETEK DANMARK A/S,
` Petitioner,
`
` v.
`
` COOLIT SYSTEMS, INC.,
` Patent Owner.
` ___________________________
`
` Case IPR2020-00747
` U.S. Patent No. 9,057,567
` ___________________________
`
` DEPOSITION OF HIMANSHU POKHARNA, Ph.D.
` WEDNESDAY, FEBRUARY 24, 2021
` SARATOGA, CALIFORNIA
`
` Reported by: Marilynn Hoover, RPR
` Oregon CSR No. 04-0387
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` BE IT REMEMBERED THAT, pursuant to the Federal
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`Rules of Civil Procedure, the Zoom video deposition
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`of HIMANSHU POKHARNA, Ph.D., was taken before
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`Marilynn Hoover, Oregon CSR No. 04-0387; on
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`Wednesday, February 24, 2021, commencing at the hour
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`of 9:25 a.m.; the witness testifying from Saratoga,
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`California.
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` APPEARANCES
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`FINNEGAN HENDERSON FARABOW GARRETT & DUNNER, LLP
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` BY MS. ARPITA BHATTACHARYYA
`
` 1875 Explorer Street, Suite 800
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` Reston, Virginia 20190
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` Telephone: 650-849-6600
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` E-mail: Arpita.Bhattacharyya@finnegan.com
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` On behalf of the Petitioner
`
`COOLEY, LLP
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` BY MR. REUBEN CHEN
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` 3175 Hanover Street
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` Palo Alto, California 94304-1130
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` Telephone: 650-843-5480
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` E-mail: RChen@cooley.com
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` On behalf of the Patent Owner
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` A P P E A R A N C E S ( C O N T . )
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`G A N Z & P O L L A R D , L L C
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` B Y M R . L L O Y D L . P O L L A R D I I
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` P o s t O f f i c e B o x 2 2 0 0
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` 1 6 3 S . E . S e c o n d A v e n u e
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` H i l l s b o r o , O r e g o n 9 7 1 2 3
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` T e l e p h o n e : 5 0 3 - 8 4 4 - 9 0 0 9
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` E - m a i l : L l o y d @ g a n z l a w . c o m
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` O n b e h a l f o f t h e P a t e n t O w n e r
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` EXAMINATION INDEX
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` PAGE
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`Examination by Ms. Bhattacharyya 6
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`Examination by Mr. Chen 31
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`Further examination by Ms. Bhattacharyya 44
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`Further examination by Mr. Chen 50
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` * * *
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` EXHIBIT INDEX
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`EXHIBIT NO. DESCRIPTION PAGE
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`Exhibit 1001 U.S. Patent No. 9,057,567 11
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`Exhibit 1003 Declaration of Donald E. Tilton,
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` Ph.D. 21
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`Exhibit 1010 U.S. Patent Application
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` Publication No. 2010/0012294 15
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`Exhibit 1022 U.S. Patent Application
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` Publication No. 2007/0163750 26
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`Exhibit 1023 Annotated declaration of Donald
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` E. Tilton, Ph.D. 44
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`Exhibit 2027 Declaration of Himanshu Pokharna,
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` Ph.D. 9
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`Exhibit 2043 Annotated excerpt from the
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` declaration of Donald E. Tilton,
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` Ph.D. 42
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` WEDNESDAY, FEBRUARY 24, 2021; SARATOGA, CALIFORNIA
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` THE REPORTER: The attorneys participating
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`in this deposition acknowledge that I am not
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`physically present in the deposition room and that I
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`will be swearing in the witness and reporting this
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`deposition remotely. The parties and their counsel
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`consent to this arrangement and waive any objections
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`to this manner of reporting.
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` Please indicate your agreement by stating
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`your name and agreement on the record.
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` MS. BHATTACHARYYA: Arpita Bhattacharyya
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`for petitioner, Asetek Danmark A/S, and we agree to
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`this remote deposition.
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` MR. CHEN: Reuben Chen for patent owner,
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`CoolIT Systems Inc., and we also agree to this
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`remote deposition.
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` And with me is Mr. Lloyd Pollard.
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` MR. POLLARD: Oh.
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` MR. CHEN: Oh, sorry. I was -- Mr. Lloyd
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`Pollard of the Ganz Pollard firm as well.
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` MR. POLLARD: And we also agree.
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` THE REPORTER: Thank you.
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` HIMANSHU POKHARNA, Ph.D.,
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`called as a witness, being duly sworn on oath, was
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`examined and did testify as follows:
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` THE REPORTER: Thank you. You may begin,
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`Page 6
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`counsel.
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` EXAMINATION
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`BY MS. BHATTACHARYYA:
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` Q. Good morning, Dr. Pokharna.
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` Will you please state and spell your full
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`name for the record.
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` A. Himanshu Pokharna. That is
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`H-I-M-A-N-S-H-U, P-O-K-H-A-R-N-A.
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` Q. And thank you, Dr. Pokharna.
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` Since you have experienced depositions,
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`even remote depositions, I won't go through any
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`instructions for the deposition today.
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` I just want to make sure you understand
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`that you are under an oath to answer my questions
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`truthfully and completely. Is that right?
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` A. Yes, I understand.
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` Q. And I am sure that the answer is no, but I
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`have to ask: Are you under the influence of any
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`alcohol or drugs or medication that will impair your
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`ability to answer my questions truthfully and
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`completely today?
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` A. No.
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` Q. Throughout this deposition, if I say
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`"CoolIT," I mean CoolIT Systems Inc., and "Asetek"
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`means petitioner, Asetek Danmark A/S; is that fair?
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` A. Yes.
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` Q. Do you have any questions before we begin?
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` A. No.
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` Q. Can you please tell me what you have done
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`to prepare to testify today.
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` MR. CHEN: And I'll just caution the
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`witness not to reveal any protected information.
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` THE WITNESS: I reviewed the declaration
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`that I provided for '567 as well as read the patent,
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`the prosecution history, the IPR filing by Asetek,
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`as well as the expert declaration by Dr. Tilton. I
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`also had some -- I also had some meetings with my
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`counselor.
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` (Reporter request.)
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` THE WITNESS: Yeah, T-I-L-T-O-N.
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` THE REPORTER: Thank you.
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` Q. BY MS. BHATTACHARYYA: Who have you met
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`with to prepare for the deposition today?
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` A. I have not met personally with anybody,
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`but I have had Zoom meetings with Reuben Chen and
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`Lloyd Pollard.
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` Q. Did you meet with or talk to anyone at
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`CoolIT?
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` A. No, I did not.
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` Q. And besides Mr. Chen and Mr. Pollard, did
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` A. Yes. I did speak to Mr. Kyle Chen as
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`well.
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` Q. Anyone else?
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` A. No.
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` Q. When was the last time you met with any
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`counsel to prepare for the deposition today?
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` A. I had a brief conversation this morning,
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`with Mr. Reuben Chen.
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` Q. How long did you meet with counsel in
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`preparation for the deposition today?
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` A. I am going to guess -- it's going to be an
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`approximate number -- but I would say it's a total
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`of about four to five hours for preparation for this
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`'567 deposition.
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` Q. And when did you meet with counsel besides
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`this morning?
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` A. Yeah, it was yesterday.
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` Q. So you spent about four to five hours
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`talking to counsel in preparation for the deposition
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`today; is that right?
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` A. That's right.
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` (Reporter request.)
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` THE WITNESS: I said give or take. It's
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`an approximate number, yeah.
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` THE REPORTER: Thank you.
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` Q. BY MS. BHATTACHARYYA: Did you meet with
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`counsel at any time before yesterday in preparation
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`for the deposition today?
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` A. I have spoken to counsel before this, in
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`preparation for my declaration. But preparing for
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`the deposition for '567, we met yesterday
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`specifically for '567.
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` (Exhibit 2027 marked.)
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` Q. BY MS. BHATTACHARYYA: Dr. Pokharna, I
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`just added your declaration, which is Exhibit 2027,
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`into the Exhibit Share folder.
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` Do you have that listed up?
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` A. Yes, I have it.
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` Q. Exhibit 2027 is the expert declaration
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`that you submitted in support of CoolIT, patent
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`owner's, response in this IPR proceeding; right?
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` A. Yes.
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` Q. Who prepared the first draft of your
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`expert declaration?
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` A. So the very first draft was prepared by
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`me. After that, it was an iterative process of
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`developing the company declaration; however, I fully
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`agree with all the opinion -- all the opinions
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`presented herein are mine.
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` Q. You said the preparation of the
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`declaration was an iterative process.
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` Who did you work with in improvising and
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`finalizing your declaration?
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` A. My primary point of contact was Mr. Lloyd
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`Pollard for that process.
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` Q. How many hours did you spend in preparing
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`your declaration?
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` A. It's hard for me to separate out the '266
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`versus '567, since a lot of the matters were the
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`same, the specifications were the same. And initial
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`time that I took was probably -- you know, it could
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`be spread over both of those IPR declarations; but
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`specifically for this, I spent less time than '266,
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`maybe.
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` (Reporter request.)
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` THE WITNESS: Maybe 20 hours, and I am
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`really guessing here. It might be even 30 hours
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`that I might have spent in '567.
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` Q. BY MS. BHATTACHARYYA: Besides
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`Mr. Pollard, did you talk to anyone else during the
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`preparation of your declaration?
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` A. I am almost certain that I talked to
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`Reuben. I might have spoken to Mr. Kyle Chen as
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`well on an occasion.
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` Q. Besides counsel, did you talk to anyone
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`else in preparing your declaration?
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` A. No, I did not.
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` (Exhibit 1001 marked.)
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` Q. BY MS. BHATTACHARYYA: Dr. Pokharna, I
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`added Exhibit 1001 to the Exhibit Share folder. It
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`is the '567 patent.
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` Can you access that?
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` A. Yes, I can access it. I have it open.
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` Q. Asetek Exhibit 1001 is CoolIT's patent
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`number 9,057,567; right?
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` A. Yes.
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` Q. Is it okay if I refer to it as the '567
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`patent?
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` A. Yes, that's fine.
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` Q. You have studied the '567 patent; correct?
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` A. Yes, I have.
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` Q. And did you review it in preparing for
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`your deposition today?
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` A. Yes, I did.
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` Q. Did you consider claim 28 of the '567
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`patent in preparing your declaration?
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` A. No, I did not.
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` Q. And you have not rendered any opinions
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`about claim 28; right?
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` A. I have not rendered any opinions regarding
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`claim 28. I was -- I was told by the counsel that
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`they plan to disclaim that claim 28 and I do not
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`need to render any opinion about that claim.
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` Q. And you have not rendered any opinion for
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`dependent claims 2, 3, 5, 7, or 25. That is
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`separate from your opinions on claim 1. Correct?
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` A. Yes. Since those dependent claims are
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`dependent on claim 1, the reason for the -- the
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`anticipation and obviousness reasons that are
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`described in the petition do not read on those
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`claims, because they're all derived from claim 1;
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`and claim 1 is not anticipated by or rendered
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`obvious by Bezama or a combination of Bezama and
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`Lyon; and, therefore, I have not rendered any -- I
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`have not provided any opinion on claim 2 and the
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`other dependent claims that you just mentioned,
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`apart from the fact that they are --
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` (Reporter request.)
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` THE WITNESS: -- they are patentable
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`because claim 1 is.
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` Q. BY MS. BHATTACHARYYA: Let's take a look
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`at claim 1.
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` You have studied claim 1 of the '567
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`patent; correct?
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` A. Yes, I have.
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` Q. And did you review this claim in
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`preparation for your deposition today?
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` A. Yes, I did.
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` Q. Claim 1 recites "a compliant member
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`matingly engaged with the second side of the
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`housing."
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` Do you see that?
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` A. Yes.
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` Q. You have construed the term "matingly
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`engaged" to mean mechanically joined or fitted
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`together to interlock; correct?
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` A. That's correct.
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` Q. In claim 1, under your interpretation of
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`"matingly engaged," the second side of the housing
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`and the surface of the compliant member in contact
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`with the second side of the housing must have
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`complementary contours; correct?
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` MR. CHEN: Objection. Form.
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` THE WITNESS: Yes. They should be
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`matingly engaged. The second side of the housing
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`and the compliant member should be matingly engaged.
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` Q. BY MS. BHATTACHARYYA: Under your
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`interpretation of "matingly engaged," the second
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`side of the housing and the surface of the compliant
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`member in contact with the second side of the
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`housing must have complementary contours; correct?
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` MR. CHEN: Objection to form. Asked and
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`answered.
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` THE WITNESS: There should be some
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`features on the compliant surface that should be
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`mechanically joined or fitted together to interlock
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`with the second side of the housing.
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` Q. BY MS. BHATTACHARYYA: Under your
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`construction of "matingly engaged" in claim 1, there
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`has to be some features on the compliant surface
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`that can mechanically join or fit together to
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`interlock with complementary features on the second
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`side of the housing; correct?
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` A. Yes.
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` Q. Claim 1 does not recite any contours or
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`features on the second side of the housing; correct?
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` A. Yes. Claim 1 specifically does not talk
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`about complementary contoured surfaces. That's what
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`is meant by matingly engaged surfaces.
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` Q. And claim 1 also does not recite any
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`contours or features on the surface of the compliant
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`member that contacts the second side of the housing;
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`correct?
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` A. Yes, again, claim 1 explicitly does not
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`talk about the features or contoured surfaces.
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`That's really what is meant by the mating engagement
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`between the second side of the housing member and
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`the compliant member.
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` Q. You are reading this requirement of
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`complementary features on the compliant surface and
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`the second side of the housing into claim 1 based on
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`your construction of the term "matingly engaged";
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`correct?
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` A. It's based on my construction, which --
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`and that opinion is something that I formed on the
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`basis of reviewing the disclosures, the prosecution
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`history, as well as extrinsic evidences like the
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`dictionary definitions, as well as the conventional
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`mechanical engineering usage of phrases like
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`"mating" and "engagement" between different
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`features.
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` (Exhibit 1010 marked.)
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` Q. BY MS. BHATTACHARYYA: Dr. Pokharna, I
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`just added the Bezama reference, which is Asetek
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`Exhibit 1010, into the exhibit folder.
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` Do you see that?
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` A. Yes, I have that. I have it open.
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` Q. Asetek Exhibit 1010 is U.S. Publication
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`No. 2010/0012294; right?
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` A. Yes, that's right.
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` Q. Is it okay if I refer to Exhibit 1010 as
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`Page 16
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`the Bezama reference?
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` A. Yes.
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` MS. BHATTACHARYYA: And for the benefit of
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`Madam Court Reporter, it's Bezama, B-E-Z-A-M-A.
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` THE REPORTER: Thank you.
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` Q. BY MS. BHATTACHARYYA: Dr. Pokharna, you
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`have studied the Bezama reference; correct?
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` A. That's right.
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` Q. Did you review Bezama in preparation for
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`your deposition today?
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` A. Yes, I did.
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` Q. When was the last time you reviewed
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`Bezama?
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` A. Some sections of it this morning.
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` Q. Did you discuss Bezama with counsel
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`yesterday when you met with them to prepare for the
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`deposition today?
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` A. I am almost certain it came up in our
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`preparation.
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` Q. In the Bezama device, the separator sheet
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`303 -- Strike that.
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` Let's take a look at figure 3G of Bezama.
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` A. Okay. I am there, counselor.
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` Q. Do you understand the structure and
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`function of the Bezama device shown in figure 3G?
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` A. Yes, I understand it. It may take me a
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`little bit of time, at times, to describe some
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`specific features; I may need to briefly review some
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`sections -- but, overall, I understand the
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`construction and the operation of the Bezama device.
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` Q. You understand the location and function
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`of separator sheet 303 in the Bezama device; is that
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`right?
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` A. So you said location and construction of
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`separator sheet 303?
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` Q. Location, construction, and function of
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`separator sheet 303?
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` A. Yes, I understand.
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` Q. The separator sheet 303 is located in the
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`recessed space on the underside of cover 304 in the
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`Bezama device; correct?
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` MR. CHEN: Objection. Form.
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` THE WITNESS: So separator sheet 304 is --
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`Sorry. Separator sheet 303 is on the underside of
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`the cover 304.
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` Q. BY MS. BHATTACHARYYA: The cover 304
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`defines a recessed space on the underside of the
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`cover; right?
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` MR. CHEN: Objection. Form.
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` THE WITNESS: Cover 304 defines a few
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`different regions that could be construed as
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`recessed regions which are on the underside of cover
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`304.
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` Q. BY MS. BHATTACHARYYA: The side walls of
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`the cover 304 in the Bezama device extend beyond the
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`partition portion 305; right?
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` MR. CHEN: Objection. Form.
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` THE WITNESS: The 305's are not shown, I
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`believe, so I just want to make sure.
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` Yes, the side walls of the cover 304 in
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`the Bezama device appear to extend beyond the
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`partition region 305.
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` Q. BY MS. BHATTACHARYYA: As shown in
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`figure 3G of Bezama, the bottom ends of the
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`partition portion 305 are recessed relative to the
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`bottom edges of the cover 304; correct?
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` MR. CHEN: Objection. Form, foundation.
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` THE WITNESS: So when I read the Bezama
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`patent application, the only recess that Bezama
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`talks about are the recess -- I believe it's 306,
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`that are formed on the first side of its cover 304.
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`That's the only recess that Bezama is talking about.
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` Q. BY MS. BHATTACHARYYA: I am afraid that
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`does not answer my question, Dr. Pokharna. Let me
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`ask my question again.
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` As shown in figure 3G of Bezama, the
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`bottom ends of the partition portions 305 are
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`recessed relative to the bottom edges of the
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`cover 304; correct?
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` MR. CHEN: Objection. Form. Foundation.
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` THE WITNESS: The bottom portion of
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`cover 304 extends below the section 305's. I agree
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`with that statement.
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` Q. BY MS. BHATTACHARYYA: So there will be a
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`recessed space between the bottom edges of partition
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`portion 305 and the bottom edges of cover 304 on the
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`underside of the cover in the Bezama device;
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`correct?
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` MR. CHEN: Objection. Form. Foundation.
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` THE WITNESS: So a recessed region is
`
`something that I would say is formed in the cavity
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`that's your inlet or exhaust manifolds, as pointed
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`out by Dr. Tilton in his declaration as well. So a
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`recessed region is a region, it's not a surface that
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`we are talking about; and the recessed region is
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`formed in the cavity on the underside of cover 304.
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` That's one recessed region. And then
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`there is a cavity that is formed on the first side
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`of the cover 304, which is what Bezama talks about.
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`And that recess --
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` (Reporter request.)
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` THE WITNESS: Bezama, the patent. Bezama
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`talks about the recess on the first side, and that
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`forms a protrusion on the second side of Bezama
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`device -- or Bezama cover 304.
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` Q. BY MS. BHATTACHARYYA: So you agree that
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`there is a recessed region in the cavity on the
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`underside of cover 304; is that right?
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` A. So there is an annotated figure 3C that is
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`there in the Tilton declaration, and I agree with
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`that definition of recessed region in the annotated
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`version of figure 3C.
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` Q. Dr. Tilton also provided annotations of
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`the recessed region in figure 3G.
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` Do you recall that?
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` A. Yes, I do.
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` Q. Do you agree with Dr. Tilton's annotation
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`of the recessed region in figure 3G of Bezama?
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` A. So I would prefer to have access to his
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`declaration at this point, so that I can accurately
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`depict it.
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` MS. BHATTACHARYYA: Sure. Can we go off
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`the record for a few minutes?
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` THE REPORTER: Is that agreeable, counsel?
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` MR. CHEN: Oh, sure. Sure. Thank you.
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` THE REPORTER: We're off the record.
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` (Recess.)
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` THE REPORTER: Back on the record.
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` (Exhibit 1003 marked.)
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` Q. BY MS. BHATTACHARYYA: Dr. Pokharna, I
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`added Dr. Tilton's declaration for this IPR, which
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`is Asetek Exhibit 1003, to the Exhibit Share folder.
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` Do you see that?
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` A. Yes, I see that.
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` Q. You considered Dr. Tilton's declaration in
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`preparing your own declaration for this IPR; right?
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` A. Yes, I did.
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` Q. Did you review Dr. Tilton's declaration in
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`preparation for the deposition today?
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` A. Yes, I did.
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` Q. Let's go to page 36 of Dr. Tilton's
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`declaration, which is Exhibit 1003. It will be PDF
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`page 39. I am looking at the print page number on
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`the bottom of the Word document.
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` A. So I am on page 36.
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` Q. Okay. The top of page 36, Dr. Tilton
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`provided annotations on figure 3G of Bezama.
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` Do you see that?
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` A. I -- I do.
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` Q. If you go to the page before that,
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`page 35, you'll see Dr. Tilton provided those
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`annotations in discussing the claim limitation: "A
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`housing member defining a first side and a second
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`side, wherein the second side defines a recessed
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`region."
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` Do you see that?
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` A. Yes.
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` Q. On page 36 of Dr. Tilton's declaration, he
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`annotated the cavity that is formed on the underside
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`of cover 304 in the Bezama device as the recessed
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`region on the second side of the cover 304.
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` Do you see that?
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` A. I do.
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` Q. The entire recessed space on the underside
`
`of cover 304 is referred to as the recessed region
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`on the second side of the housing by Dr. Tilton;
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`right?
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` MR. CHEN: Objection. Form.
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` THE WITNESS: Actually, that's not
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`correct. What the recessed region on the second
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`side of cover 304 is, is really -- with those
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`brackets, is kind of encompassing even -- even the
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`first side of the housing. It's really -- It's not
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`really pointing to anything specific. When I read
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`it, I also kind of -- if I take that on its face
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`value, then it is self-inconsistent because it also
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`is essentially encompassing the first side of the
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`housing as well.
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` So when I look at the recessed region on
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`the second side of the cover 304, I look at it in
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`conjunction with annotated figure 3C on page 35 as
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`well as the annotated figure on page 40 where
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`Dr. Tilton has gone through the trouble of clearly
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`further identifying what he meant by "the recessed
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`regions on the second side of cover 304."
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` Q. BY MS. BHATTACHARYYA: So you're
`
`disregarding Dr. Tilton's annotations of figure 3G
`
`on page 36 of your declaration.
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` Is that what you're saying?
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` MR. CHEN: Objection. Mischaracterizes
`
`testimony. Form.
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` THE WITNESS: I am not disregarding it. I
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`am reading Dr. Tilton's report in total and I am
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`forming my opinion to what he means, not just by
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`looking at one word or phrase out of context, but
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`looking at the entire report. And where I can get
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`further clarification of what he had meant, I will
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`read that as well when I read any specific figure or
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`any specific paragraph. If there is anything that
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`clarifies his position to me, I will read that in
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`any figure, even though it really is not referring
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`to that figure.
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` Q. BY MS. BHATTACHARYYA: In the annotation
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`shown on figure -- Strike that.
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` In the annotations of figure 3G on page 36
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`of Dr. Tilton's declaration, he did annotate the
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`entire recessed region on the underside of cover 304
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`as the recessed region in the second side of the
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`housing; right?
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` MR. CHEN: Objection. Form.
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` THE WITNESS: He has pointed to some
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`pretty big region including the first side; it could
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`even include the second side.
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` To me, when I look at that broad brush
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`pointing to a specific region, it's indeterminate to
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`me; and, therefore, I have used other annotations to
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`further understand Dr. Tilton's understanding of
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`recessed regions.
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` Q. BY MS. BHATTACHARYYA: Do you agree that
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`there is a recessed region on the underside of
`
`cover 304 where -- which extends from -- Strike
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`that.
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` The partition portions 305 extend from the
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`undersurface of cover 304; right?
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` A. Yeah, the partition portion is formed by
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`the recess 306 on the first side of the cover, and
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`the partition 306 is formed -- sorry -- portion 305
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`is formed on the second side of the cover.
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` Q. Bezama discloses separator sheet 303 can
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`be attached, sealed, or bonded to the partition
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`portion 305; correct?
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` A. I believe Bezama does talk about the
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`methods of manufacturing and methods of assembling
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`different portions, so I will take you on your word
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`that he talks about all three methods -- attaching,
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`sealing, and bonding. I may have to go back and
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`read or briefly review that specific section if you
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`really want me to testify to that; otherwise, I will
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`take you on your word that -- that he does talk
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`about all three of those methods.
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` Q. If you want to verify for yourself -- you
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`have access to the Bezama reference -- why don't you
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`do that. I can point you to paragraph 29 of
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`Bezama --
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` A. Okay.
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` Q. -- but feel free to verify for yourself
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`instead of taking my word for it.
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` A. Okay. Yes, I agree with your statement
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`that Bezama talks about attaching, sealing, and
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`bonding of the separator sheet to the manifold
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`portion.
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` Q. And by "manifold portion," do you mean the
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`partition portion 305?
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` A. Yes, I -- I believe so, yes.
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` Q. So you agree that Bezama teaches
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`attaching, sealing, or bonding the separator
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`sheet 303 to the partition portion 305; is that
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`right?
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` A. Yes.
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` (Exhibit 1022 marked.)
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` Q. BY MS. BHATTACHARYYA: Dr. Pokharna, I
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`just introduced a new exhibit into the Exhibit Share
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`folder, which has been marked as Exhibit 1022.
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` Do you see that?
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` A. Yes, I do.
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` Q. Exhibit 1022 is U.S. Patent Publication
`
`No. 2007/0163750 to Bhatti, et al.
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` A. Yes.
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` Q. Do you see that?
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` And for the benefit of Madam Court
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`Reporter, that's Bhatti, B-H-A-T-T-I.
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` THE REPORTER: Thank you.
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`okay if I refer to Exhibit 1022 as the Bhatti
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`Page 27
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`reference?
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` A. Yes, that's fine.
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` Q. Dr. Pokharna, you are familiar with the
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`Bhatti reference; right?
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` A. I am familiar with this reference because
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`I have studied it in the context of the '266 patent.
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`Off the top of my head, I do not recall if this was
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`referenced in the IPR for '567.
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` Q. Are you done, Dr. Pokharna?
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` A. Yes, I am.
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` Q. You provided an opinion about Bhatti in
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`your declaration for the IPR against CoolIT's '266
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`patent; right?
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` A. That's right. Yeah.
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` Q. Bhatti is listed on the face of the '567
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`patent; right?
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` A. Yes, I believe so.
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` Q. Let's take a look at figure 3 of Bhatti.
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` A. Okay.
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` Q. Are you familiar with the structure and
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`the operation of the Bhatti device as shown in
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`figure 3?
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` A. Yes, I am broadly familiar with the
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`215-241-1000 ~ 610-434-8588 ~ 302-571-0510 ~ 202-803-8830
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`Page 28
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`structure as well as the operation of the Bhatti
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`device.
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` Q. The Bhatti device has a lid 24 and a
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`base 26 that are brought in contact with each other
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`when the device is
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