BENEDICT OCCHIOGROSSO 3/3/2021
`
`Page 1
`
` UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
`APPLE, INC.
`Petitioner
`v.
`PARUS HOLDINGS, INC.
`Patent Owner
`
`Case No. IPR2020-00686
`U.S. Patent No. 7,076,431
`
`VIDEOCONFERENCE DEPOSITION OF BENEDICT OCCHIOGROSSO
`Taken on Behalf of Petitioner
`Wednesday, March 3, 2021
`
`1
`2
`
`34
`
`5
`6
`7
`
`89
`
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`www.alaris.us
`
`ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
`Phone: 1.800.280.3376
`
`Fax: 314.644.1334
`
`IPR2020-00686
`Apple EX1039 Page 1
`
`
`
`Page 1
`
` UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
`APPLE, INC.
`Petitioner
`v.
`PARUS HOLDINGS, INC.
`Patent Owner
`
`Case No. IPR2020-00686
`U.S. Patent No. 7,076,431
`
`VIDEOCONFERENCE DEPOSITION OF BENEDICT OCCHIOGROSSO
`Taken on Behalf of Petitioner
`Wednesday, March 3, 2021
`
`1
`2
`
`34
`
`5
`6
`7
`
`89
`
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`www.alaris.us
`
`ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
`Phone: 1.800.280.3376
`
`Fax: 314.644.1334
`
`IPR2020-00686
`Apple EX1039 Page 1
`
`
`
` BENEDICT OCCHIOGROSSO 3/3/2021
`
`Page 2
`
` UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
` APPLE, INC.
` Petitioner
` v.
` PARUS HOLDINGS, INC.
` Patent Owner
`
` Case No. IPR2020-00687
` U.S. Patent No. 9,451,084
`
`
`
` VIDEOCONFERENCE DEPOSITION OF BENEDICT OCCHIOGROSSO
` Taken on Behalf of Petitioner
` Wednesday, March 3, 2021
`
`1
`2
`
`34
`
`5
`6
`7
`
`89
`
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`www.alaris.us
`
`ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
`Phone: 1.800.280.3376
`
`Fax: 314.644.1334
`
`IPR2020-00686
`Apple EX1039 Page 2
`
`
`
` BENEDICT OCCHIOGROSSO 3/3/2021
`
`Page 3
`
` INDEX OF EXAMINATION
`BENEDICT OCCHIOGROSSO PAGE
`Examination by Ms. Bailey. . . . . . . . . . . . 8
`
` oOo
`
` PREVIOUSLY MARKED EXHIBITS
` Ex. 1001 - Page 53, Line 2
` Ex. 1005 - Page 55, Line 15
`(Exhibits not attached.)
` oOo
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`
`567
`
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`www.alaris.us
`
`ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
`Phone: 1.800.280.3376
`
`Fax: 314.644.1334
`
`IPR2020-00686
`Apple EX1039 Page 3
`
`
`
` BENEDICT OCCHIOGROSSO 3/3/2021
`
`Page 4
`
` UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
` APPLE, INC.
` Petitioner
` v.
` PARUS HOLDINGS, INC.
` Patent Owner
`
` Case No. IPR2020-00686
` U.S. Patent No. 7,076,431
`
`
`
`
` VIDEOCONFERENCE DEPOSITION OF BENEDICT
`OCCHIOGROSSO, produced, sworn and examined on
`Wednesday, March 3, 2021, between the hours of
`9:12 a.m. and 1:21 p.m. of that day, before Connie
`McCarthy, CCR, RMR, CRR.
`
`1
`2
`
`34
`
`5
`6
`7
`
`89
`
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`www.alaris.us
`
`ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
`Phone: 1.800.280.3376
`
`Fax: 314.644.1334
`
`IPR2020-00686
`Apple EX1039 Page 4
`
`
`
` BENEDICT OCCHIOGROSSO 3/3/2021
`
`Page 5
`
` UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
` APPLE, INC.
` Petitioner
`
` v.
`
` PARUS HOLDINGS, INC.
` Patent Owner
`
` Case No. IPR2020-00687
` U.S. Patent No. 9,451,084
`
`
`
` VIDEOCONFERENCE DEPOSITION OF BENEDICT
`OCCHIOGROSSO, produced, sworn and examined on
`Wednesday, March 3, 2021, between the hours of
`9:12 a.m. and 1:21 p.m. of that day, before Connie
`McCarthy, CCR, RMR, CRR.
`
`1
`2
`
`34
`
`5
`
`67
`
`89
`
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`www.alaris.us
`
`ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
`Phone: 1.800.280.3376
`
`Fax: 314.644.1334
`
`IPR2020-00686
`Apple EX1039 Page 5
`
`
`
` BENEDICT OCCHIOGROSSO 3/3/2021
`
`Page 6
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
` A P P E A R A N C E S
` For the Petitioner:
` JENNIFER C. BAILEY, ESQ.
` (via Zoom)
` Erise IP, P.A.
` 7015 College Boulevard
` Suite 700
` Overland Park, Kansas 66211
` (913) 777-5600
` jennifer.bailey@eriseip.com
` For the Patent Owner:
` MICHAEL J. McNAMARA, ESQ.
` (via Zoom)
` SEAN M. CASEY, ESQ.
` (via Zoom)
` Mintz Levin Cohn Ferris Glovsky & Popeo
` One Financial Center
` Boston, Massachusetts 02111
` (617) 542-6000
` MMcNamara@mintz.com
` SMCasey@mintz.com
` Also Present: ADAM SANDWELL, T.A.
` (via Zoom)
` Erise IP, P.A.
`Reported By:
`Connie McCarthy, RMR, CRR
`MO CCR #1435
`
`www.alaris.us
`
`ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
`Phone: 1.800.280.3376
`
`Fax: 314.644.1334
`
`IPR2020-00686
`Apple EX1039 Page 6
`
`
`
` BENEDICT OCCHIOGROSSO 3/3/2021
`
`Page 7
`
`Wednesday, March 3, 2021 9:12 a.m.
`
` COURT REPORTER: We are on the record. If
`counsel could identify themselves and who they
`represent.
` MS. BAILEY: Jennifer Bailey of Erise IP
`for Apple, Inc., Petitioner.
` MR. McNAMARA: Michael McNamara from Mintz,
`Levin for patent owner Parus. And with me here today
`is Sean Casey, also from Mintz, Levin.
` COURT REPORTER: The attorneys
`participating in this deposition acknowledge that I
`am not physically present in the deposition room and
`that I will be reporting this deposition remotely.
` They further acknowledge that, in lieu of
`an oath administered in person, I will administer the
`oath remotely.
` The parties and their counsel consent to
`this arrangement and waive any objections to this
`manner of reporting.
` Please indicate your agreement by stating
`your name and your agreement on the record.
` MS. BAILEY: Jennifer Bailey, agreed.
` MR. McNAMARA: Michael McNamara, agreed.
`
`1
`
`2 3
`
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`www.alaris.us
`
`ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
`Phone: 1.800.280.3376
`
`Fax: 314.644.1334
`
`IPR2020-00686
`Apple EX1039 Page 7
`
`
`
` BENEDICT OCCHIOGROSSO 3/3/2021
`
`Page 8
`
` BENEDICT OCCHIOGROSSO,
` called as a witness by the Petitioner, having
` been duly sworn, testified as follows:
`
` EXAMINATION
`BY MS. BAILEY:
` Q. Good morning, Mr. Occhiogrosso.
` A. Good morning, Ms. Bailey.
` Q. Could you please state your name for the
`record?
` A. Benedict Occhiogrosso.
` Q. Have you ever been deposed?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Approximately how many times have you been
`deposed?
` A. In excess of two dozen times.
` Q. Have you ever been deposed over video?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Okay. Well, then you are probably familiar
`with how this goes. I will ask a question, I will
`allow you to answer and I will not interrupt you or I
`will try not to interrupt you. The video deposition
`sometimes makes that difficult. And if I ask you a
`question, you will answer it. Does that all sound
`good to you?
`
`1
`2
`3
`
`4 5
`
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`www.alaris.us
`
`ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
`Phone: 1.800.280.3376
`
`Fax: 314.644.1334
`
`IPR2020-00686
`Apple EX1039 Page 8
`
`
`
` BENEDICT OCCHIOGROSSO 3/3/2021
`
`Page 9
`
` A. Yes.
` Q. Okay. And if at any time you need to take
`a break, just let me know. I take breaks
`approximately every hour. But if you need to take
`one, please let me know. I just ask that you answer
`finish any question that I have asked. Does that
`work for you?
` A. Yes.
` Q. You are testifying today in two IPR matters
`regarding Apple and Parus; is that correct?
` A. Correct.
` Q. Okay. And are you aware that there is
`ongoing litigation in the Western District of Texas
`between Apple and Parus regarding these patents?
` A. I am aware of it.
` Q. Are you serving as an expert in that
`litigation?
` A. I don't believe I've been designated yet as
`an expert in that litigation.
` Q. So you have not provided an expert report
`in that litigation?
` A. That is correct.
` Q. Are you aware of the claim constructions
`that the Court has put forth in a claim construction
`order in that litigation?
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`www.alaris.us
`
`ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
`Phone: 1.800.280.3376
`
`Fax: 314.644.1334
`
`IPR2020-00686
`Apple EX1039 Page 9
`
`
`
` BENEDICT OCCHIOGROSSO 3/3/2021
`
`Page 10
`
` A. Yes, I am aware of it.
` Q. I want to start today with understanding
`how the automatic speech recognition works in the
`Parus patents. And before we get into that, there
`are two patents that are at issue in these IPRs. I'm
`probably going to refer to the '431 patent today. If
`I refer to the '431 patent, does it make sense to you
`that I'm also referring to the '084, because they're
`related patents?
` A. To the extent that it makes sense, of
`course, it would make sense.
` Q. Okay. So I want to understand today how
`automatic speech recognition works within the '431
`patent. And so I want you to try to walk me through
`how that speech recognition process would be handled.
`So a user who is using the speech recognition system
`of the '431 patent would provide a user input; is
`that correct?
` A. Subject to establishing a connection.
` Q. So once a connection with the speech
`recognition device has been made, a user can make a
`user input into the speech recognition device?
` A. Correct.
` Q. Once the user speaks something which I am
`calling the user input, what happens next by the
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`www.alaris.us
`
`ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
`Phone: 1.800.280.3376
`
`Fax: 314.644.1334
`
`IPR2020-00686
`Apple EX1039 Page 10
`
`
`
` BENEDICT OCCHIOGROSSO 3/3/2021
`
`Page 11
`
`speech recognition device?
` A. Could you be more specific?
` Q. Sure. So the speech recognition device
`receives the user input. Does that make sense to you
`so far?
` MR. McNAMARA: Objection, form.
` THE WITNESS: Yes.
`BY MS. BAILEY:
` Q. What does the speech recognition device do
`with the user input once received?
` MR. McNAMARA: Objection, form.
` THE WITNESS: It translates the voice
`signal into text. A data message.
`BY MS. BAILEY:
` Q. How does the speech recognition device
`translate the voice signal into text?
` MR. McNAMARA: Objection, form.
` THE WITNESS: So in the '431 patent, the
`media server contains a speech recognition engine
`which translates the incoming into text.
`BY MS. BAILEY:
` Q. How does it translate the incoming voice
`signal into text?
` MR. McNAMARA: Objection, form.
` THE WITNESS: It performs a speech
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`www.alaris.us
`
`ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
`Phone: 1.800.280.3376
`
`Fax: 314.644.1334
`
`IPR2020-00686
`Apple EX1039 Page 11
`
`
`
` BENEDICT OCCHIOGROSSO 3/3/2021
`
`Page 12
`
`recognition algorithm.
`BY MS. BAILEY:
` Q. What is the first step of that speech
`recognition algorithm?
` MR. McNAMARA: Objection, form.
` THE WITNESS: The '431 patent discloses
`that the speech recognition system uses phonemes to
`recognize spoken words and not predefined voice
`patterns.
`BY MS. BAILEY:
` Q. Are you familiar with the example in the
`'431 patent at Column 6, Lines 44 through 56?
` A. Could you give me the line reference again
`in Column 6?
` Q. Sure. It is Column 6, Lines 44 through 56.
`And of course, feel free to read that paragraph, if
`you would like.
` A. Thank you.
` Okay. I've read it.
` Q. Do you agree that the '431 patent's speech
`recognition device can recognize the words spoken
`with, What is the weather in Chicago?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Is it fair to characterize the words spoken
`by the user, quote, What is the weather in Chicago,
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`www.alaris.us
`
`ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
`Phone: 1.800.280.3376
`
`Fax: 314.644.1334
`
`IPR2020-00686
`Apple EX1039 Page 12
`
`
`
` BENEDICT OCCHIOGROSSO 3/3/2021
`
`Page 13
`
`as the user input?
` MR. McNAMARA: Objection, form.
` THE WITNESS: In that example, that's a
`fair characterization.
`BY MS. BAILEY:
` Q. When the speaker recognition -- let me
`restart.
` When the speech recognition device receives
`the user input of, What is the weather in Chicago,
`how does the speech recognition device determine the
`content of the user input?
` MR. McNAMARA: Object to form.
` THE WITNESS: As I mentioned previously,
`the speech recognition engine, as disclosed in the
`'431, is used to recognize natural conversational
`voice commands spoken by the user and converts them
`into data messages based on the available recognition
`grammar.
`BY MS. BAILEY:
` Q. Were you reading from somewhere just now,
`Mr. Occhiogrosso?
` A. Yes, I was.
` Q. Could you tell me what you were reading
`from?
` A. I was reading from the '431 patent.
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`www.alaris.us
`
`ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
`Phone: 1.800.280.3376
`
`Fax: 314.644.1334
`
`IPR2020-00686
`Apple EX1039 Page 13
`
`
`
` BENEDICT OCCHIOGROSSO 3/3/2021
`
`Page 14
`
` Q. What column and line number, please?
` A. It was Column 4, Line 50 through 54.
` Q. So when the speech recognition device
`receives the user input of, What is the weather in
`Chicago, does the speech recognition device divide
`that user input into phonemes?
` MR. McNAMARA: Object to form.
` THE WITNESS: Ultimately.
`BY MS. BAILEY:
` Q. Ultimately, to me, implies that something
`happens before it divides it into phonemes. Is that
`a correct interpretation on my part of your answer?
` A. Yes.
` Q. What happens before a content is divided
`into phonemes?
` MR. McNAMARA: Object to form.
` THE WITNESS: While not explicitly
`disclosed in the '431, there is undoubtedly some time
`sampling of the audio input from the user.
`BY MS. BAILEY:
` Q. After the time sampling of the audio input
`is performed, does the speech recognition device then
`divide the user input into the phonemes?
` MR. McNAMARA: Object to form.
` THE WITNESS: Subsequent to the time
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`www.alaris.us
`
`ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
`Phone: 1.800.280.3376
`
`Fax: 314.644.1334
`
`IPR2020-00686
`Apple EX1039 Page 14
`
`
`
` BENEDICT OCCHIOGROSSO 3/3/2021
`
`Page 15
`
`sampling, the user input would be converted into
`phonemes.
`BY MS. BAILEY:
` Q. What step is performed after the user input
`is converted into phonemes?
` MR. McNAMARA: Object to form.
` THE WITNESS: The phonemes are analyzed and
`clustered into words.
`BY MS. BAILEY:
` Q. How are the phonemes clustered into words?
` MR. McNAMARA: Object to form.
` THE WITNESS: The specific algorithm is not
`disclosed in '431.
`BY MS. BAILEY:
` Q. Once the phonemes are analyzed and
`clustered into words, what happens next in the
`algorithm?
` MR. McNAMARA: Object to form.
` THE WITNESS: The media server processes
`the recognition result data in identifying keywords.
`BY MS. BAILEY:
` Q. Is the process of identifying keywords akin
`to the process of matching to a recognition grammar?
` MR. McNAMARA: Object to form.
` THE WITNESS: Could you clarify the
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`www.alaris.us
`
`ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
`Phone: 1.800.280.3376
`
`Fax: 314.644.1334
`
`IPR2020-00686
`Apple EX1039 Page 15
`
`
`
` BENEDICT OCCHIOGROSSO 3/3/2021
`
`Page 16
`
`question?
`BY MS. BAILEY:
` Q. Are you familiar with the term "recognition
`grammar"?
` A. Yes.
` Q. What is a recognition grammar?
` MR. McNAMARA: Object to form. Calls for
`legal conclusion.
` THE WITNESS: I'm sorry, procedurally,
`should I go ahead and answer that?
`BY MS. BAILEY:
` Q. Yes, you should.
` A. Recognition grammar is the allowable
`utterances.
` Q. Are you done answering, Mr. Occhiogrosso?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Sorry, I didn't want to interrupt you.
` What does it mean to be an allowable
`utterance within the speech recognition device?
` MR. McNAMARA: Same objection.
` THE WITNESS: I'm sorry, did Mr. McNamara
`make an objection or...?
`BY MS. BAILEY:
` Q. He did, Mr. Occhiogrosso, but you should
`also answer the question. Unless -- and just to be
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`www.alaris.us
`
`ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
`Phone: 1.800.280.3376
`
`Fax: 314.644.1334
`
`IPR2020-00686
`Apple EX1039 Page 16
`
`
`
` BENEDICT OCCHIOGROSSO 3/3/2021
`
`Page 17
`
`clear, unless Mr. McNamara instructs you not to
`answer a question, you should answer a question.
` A. Understood.
` MR. McNAMARA: To the extent you didn't
`hear it, I just said same objection.
` THE WITNESS: Thank you.
` Ms. Bailey, can you repeat your last
`question?
`BY MS. BAILEY:
` Q. Sure. Of course. What does it mean to be
`an allowable utterance within the speech recognition
`device?
` MR. McNAMARA: Same objection.
` THE WITNESS: It may be an overstatement on
`my part. It's -- any utterance is allowable. It's
`what might be anticipated by the --
`BY MS. BAILEY:
` Q. The -- I'm sorry. Go ahead, please.
` A. Yeah, what might be anticipated by the
`grammar.
` Q. So is the recognition grammar a vocabulary
`that the speech recognition device will understand,
`or will recognize?
` MR. McNAMARA: Objection to form.
`Misstates.
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`www.alaris.us
`
`ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
`Phone: 1.800.280.3376
`
`Fax: 314.644.1334
`
`IPR2020-00686
`Apple EX1039 Page 17
`
`
`
` BENEDICT OCCHIOGROSSO 3/3/2021
`
`Page 18
`
` THE WITNESS: The recognition grammar
`includes vocabulary that the recognition device would
`recognize.
`BY MS. BAILEY:
` Q. Could you give me an example of a word that
`a speech recognition device may not recognize because
`it's not part of its recognition grammar?
` A. Well, that's out of context. What's the
`context of the question?
` Q. I'm trying to understand what a recognition
`grammar is when used with a speech recognition
`device. Is the speech recognition device programmed
`to have a recognition grammar comprising a certain
`number of words the speech recognition device will
`recognize?
` MR. McNAMARA: Object to form.
` THE WITNESS: The recognition device
`typically has intrinsic capabilities to recognize
`numerous words in its vocabulary. If it doesn't
`recognize a word, it will indicate that that's out of
`the vocabulary.
`BY MS. BAILEY:
` Q. And I believe earlier you said that the
`recognition grammar is the vocabulary that the speech
`recognition device will recognize, correct?
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`www.alaris.us
`
`ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
`Phone: 1.800.280.3376
`
`Fax: 314.644.1334
`
`IPR2020-00686
`Apple EX1039 Page 18
`
`
`
` BENEDICT OCCHIOGROSSO 3/3/2021
`
`Page 19
`
` MR. McNAMARA: Objection.
` THE WITNESS: The recognition grammar, at a
`particular state of the processing, posits what words
`would be anticipated, but the recognition device has
`its intrinsic capability to recognize a superset of
`the words in the grammar.
`BY MS. BAILEY:
` Q. So is a recognition grammar a subset of a
`vocabulary?
` MR. McNAMARA: Object to form.
` THE WITNESS: I think one could
`characterize that as such.
`BY MS. BAILEY:
` Q. So you previously opined that the
`recognition grammar is the words the speech
`recognition device anticipates will be uttered; is
`that correct?
` MR. McNAMARA: Object to form,
`mischaracterizes.
` THE WITNESS: I believe that's what I said,
`yes.
`BY MS. BAILEY:
` Q. How is the speech -- let me restart that
`question.
` How is the recognition grammar programmed
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`www.alaris.us
`
`ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
`Phone: 1.800.280.3376
`
`Fax: 314.644.1334
`
`IPR2020-00686
`Apple EX1039 Page 19
`
`
`
` BENEDICT OCCHIOGROSSO 3/3/2021
`
`Page 20
`
`to anticipate certain words?
` MR. McNAMARA: Object to form.
` THE WITNESS: I don't believe I opined on
`that.
`BY MS. BAILEY:
` Q. Are you saying that you did not opine on
`that in your declaration or that I am misstating
`something that you have answered?
` A. I am saying that I don't believe I opined
`on those details in my declaration.
` Q. How does a recognition grammar anticipate
`certain words?
` MR. McNAMARA: Object to form.
` THE WITNESS: Again, I don't know that I
`presented that detail in my declaration.
`BY MS. BAILEY:
` Q. Mr. Occhiogrosso, you're a speech
`recognition expert and you're discussing and opining
`on recognition grammar, and you are the one that just
`told me that a recognition grammar anticipates
`certain words. Do you not have any understanding of
`how a recognition grammar is anticipating certain
`words?
` MR. McNAMARA: Objection to form.
`Mischaracterizes.
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`www.alaris.us
`
`ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
`Phone: 1.800.280.3376
`
`Fax: 314.644.1334
`
`IPR2020-00686
`Apple EX1039 Page 20
`
`
`
` BENEDICT OCCHIOGROSSO 3/3/2021
`
`Page 21
`
` THE WITNESS: No, I didn't state that. I
`simply stated that I didn't opine it -- excuse me, I
`didn't opine upon it in my declaration with respect
`to the '431 patent.
`BY MS. BAILEY:
` Q. Are you refusing to provide an opinion on
`how a recognition grammar anticipates certain words?
` A. No.
` Q. So could you please answer my question?
` A. Yes. But with the qualifier that such
`details have not been disclosed in the '431 patent.
` Q. Understood. How does a general speech
`recognition device with a recognition grammar
`anticipate certain words?
` MR. McNAMARA: Objection to form.
` THE WITNESS: So, depending upon the
`recognition grammar and state of the dialogue between
`the user and the speech recognition engine, the
`likelihood of certain utterances is projected based
`on the allowable recognition grammar.
`BY MS. BAILEY:
` Q. How is the speech recognition device
`programmed to have a likelihood of certain
`utterances?
` MR. McNAMARA: Objection to form. Outside
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`www.alaris.us
`
`ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
`Phone: 1.800.280.3376
`
`Fax: 314.644.1334
`
`IPR2020-00686
`Apple EX1039 Page 21
`
`
`
` BENEDICT OCCHIOGROSSO 3/3/2021
`
`Page 22
`
`the scope.
` THE WITNESS: Could you repeat the
`question?
`BY MS. BAILEY:
` Q. How is the speech recognition device
`programmed to have a likelihood of certain
`utterances?
` MR. McNAMARA: Objection to form. Outside
`the scope.
` THE WITNESS: The only thing is I don't
`know how it's programmed.
`BY MS. BAILEY:
` Q. Let's go back to the '431 patent. And you
`testified that a recognition grammar within the '431
`patent are the words anticipated to be uttered. How
`does the speech recognition device of the '431 patent
`anticipate certain words to be uttered?
` MR. McNAMARA: Objection to form. Outside
`the scope.
` (Pause in proceedings)
` MR. McNAMARA: Sorry. Is there a question
`pending?
` MS. BAILEY: There is.
` THE WITNESS: So repeat the question.
`//
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`www.alaris.us
`
`ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
`Phone: 1.800.280.3376
`
`Fax: 314.644.1334
`
`IPR2020-00686
`Apple EX1039 Page 22
`
`
`
` BENEDICT OCCHIOGROSSO 3/3/2021
`
`Page 23
`
`BY MS. BAILEY:
` Q. How does the speech recognition device of
`the '431 patent anticipate certain words to be
`uttered?
` MR. McNAMARA: Object to the form.
`Mischaracterizes.
` THE WITNESS: Via the recognition grammar.
`BY MS. BAILEY:
` Q. Is the recognition grammar programmed with
`certain words that it will recognize?
` MR. McNAMARA: Object to the form.
` THE WITNESS: The recognition grammar
`includes commands that can be uttered by the user.
`BY MS. BAILEY:
` Q. Could you give me an example of one of
`those commands in terms of the '431 patent?
` A. What's the weather like in Chicago. So
`when the keyword "weather" is identified, that would
`constitute an information request by the user.
` Q. So the speech recognition device is trained
`to recognize the word "weather" for Chicago; is that
`correct?
` MR. McNAMARA: Object to the form.
`Mischaracterizes.
` THE WITNESS: It's not trained. It's
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`www.alaris.us
`
`ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
`Phone: 1.800.280.3376
`
`Fax: 314.644.1334
`
`IPR2020-00686
`Apple EX1039 Page 23
`
`
`
` BENEDICT OCCHIOGROSSO 3/3/2021
`
`Page 24
`
`capable of recognizing those words. And those words,
`selecting the recognition grammar that would be
`associated with weather.
` MR. McNAMARA: I'm sorry to interrupt. Do
`you mind if we take a short break? I'm sorry, I just
`need to use the rest room.
` MS. BAILEY: Sure. Let's take a
`five-minute break. Does that work?
` MR. McNAMARA: That's fine.
` (Recess)
`BY MS. BAILEY:
` Q. Mr. Occhiogrosso, within the context of the
`'431 patent, the speech recognition device is capable
`of recognizing the words, What is the weather like in
`Chicago; is that correct?
` A. Yes.
` Q. How does the '431 patent's speech
`recognition device recognize those words?
` MR. McNAMARA: Objection to form.
` THE WITNESS: The speech recognition engine
`of the media server.
`BY MS. BAILEY:
` Q. Could you break that down any more for me?
` A. Well, within the media server there is a
`speech recognition engine that is capable of
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`www.alaris.us
`
`ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
`Phone: 1.800.280.3376
`
`Fax: 314.644.1334
`
`IPR2020-00686
`Apple EX1039 Page 24
`
`
`
` BENEDICT OCCHIOGROSSO 3/3/2021
`
`Page 25
`
`converting the incoming voice to text.
` Q. And how does it convert the incoming voice
`into text?
` A. Well, as I mentioned, the disclosure in the
`'431 indicates that it uses phonemes, not predefined
`voice patterns.
` Q. So when the user provides the user input
`of, What is the weather in Chicago, does the speech
`recognition device of the '431 patent convert that
`user input into phonemes?
` A. Yes.
` Q. What is a voice pattern?
` MR. McNAMARA: Object to form.
` THE WITNESS: For one skilled in the art, a
`voice pattern is a word or utterance, and its
`spectral energy -- typically -- spectral energy as a
`function of time.
`BY MS. BAILEY:
` Q. Is the term "voice pattern" a term of art
`within speech recognition devices?
` A. Yes.
` Q. In a speech recognition device that
`recognizes voice patterns, how is it programmed to
`recognize those voice patterns?
` MR. McNAMARA: Objection, form. Beyond the
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`www.alaris.us
`
`ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
`Phone: 1.800.280.3376
`
`Fax: 314.644.1334
`
`IPR2020-00686
`Apple EX1039 Page 25
`
`
`
` BENEDICT OCCHIOGROSSO 3/3/2021
`
`Page 26
`
`scope.
` THE WITNESS: Typically, the spectral
`energy is a function of time of the utterance that is
`captured and compared to reference patterns to work
`within the speech recognition device.
`BY MS. BAILEY:
` Q. What is the difference between a voice
`pattern and a predefined voice pattern?
` MR. McNAMARA: Objection, form; scope.
` THE WITNESS: So a predefined voice pattern
`are the reference patterns that are stored within the
`speech recognition device. And the voice pattern is
`what are uttered.
`BY MS. BAILEY:
` Q. The last sentence of your answer was, the
`voice pattern is what are uttered. Are you saying
`that anything that is uttered by the user is a voice
`pattern?
` MR. McNAMARA: Objection to form.
`Mischaracterizes.
` THE WITNESS: No.
`BY MS. BAILEY:
` Q. Could you explain then the last sentence of
`your prior answer that says, quote, and the voice
`pattern is what are uttered?
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`www.alaris.us
`
`ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
`Phone: 1.800.280.3376
`
`Fax: 314.644.1334
`
`IPR2020-00686
`Apple EX1039 Page 26
`
`
`
` BENEDICT OCCHIOGROSSO 3/3/2021
`
`Page 27
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
` A. Could you read back -- or could the court
`reporter read back the entirety of my answer? And
`also the question that you had posed which gave rise
`to that answer? I want to try to reestablish the
`context.
` COURT REPORTER: Is that fine, Ms. Bailey?
` MS. BAILEY: Yes, that's fine.
` (Record read, as follows:)
` "Q. What is the difference between a
` voice pattern and a predefined voice
` pattern?
` "A. So a predefined voice pattern are
` the reference patterns that are stored
` within the speech recognition device.
` And the voice pattern is what are
` uttered."
` THE WITNESS: Okay. Now what was the next
`question?
` (Record read, as follows:)
` "Q. The last sentence of your answer
` was, the voice pattern is what are
` uttered. Are you saying that anything
` that is uttered by the user is a voice
` pattern?"
` MR. McNAMARA: Objection to form.
`
`www.alaris.us
`
`ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
`Phone: 1.800.280.3376
`
`Fax: 314.644.1334
`
`IPR2020-00686
`Apple EX1039 Page 27
`
`
`
` BENEDICT OCCHIOGROSSO 3/3/2021
`
`Page 28
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
` THE WITNESS: And I believe I answered
`that, correct?
`BY MS. BAILEY:
` Q. No. I'm just trying to understand,
`Mr. Occhiogrosso. Is it your opinion that anything
`uttered by user is a voice pattern?
` MR. McNAMARA: Object to form.
` THE WITNESS: Anything uttered by the user
`would consist of some spectral energy over time. So
`it could very well, in a voice pattern -- predefined
`voice pattern-based speech recognizer be compared to
`the predefined voice patterns. But -- well, no but.
`That's my answer.
`BY MS. BAILEY:
` Q. So in a speech recognition device, any
`utterance by the user is a voice pattern, but a
`predefined voice pattern is one that is a reference
`voice pattern stored in the speech recognition
`device?
` MR. McNAMARA: Object to form.
` THE WITNESS: I'm sorry, that was your
`question?
`BY MS. BAILEY:
` Q. Yes. Am I correct?
` A. I think you characterized it correctly.
`
`www.alaris.us
`
`ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
`Phone: 1.800.280.3376
`
`Fax: 314.644.1334
`
`IPR2020-00686
`Apple EX1039 Page 28
`
`
`
` BENEDICT OCCHIOGROSSO 3/3/2021
`
`Page 29
`
` Q. So essentially, any user -- and let's make
`sure that we're talking with respect to the '431
`patent. Any user is uttering voice patterns?
` MR. McNAMARA: Object to form.
`BY MS. BAILEY:
` Q. Within the context of the '431 patent.
`It's just per your opinion, the '431 patent does not
`use predefined voice patterns to recognize what the
`user uttered. Is that correct?
` MR. McNAMARA: Object to form.
` THE WITNESS: Not exactly.
`BY MS. BAILEY:
` Q. Could you then clarify for me?
` A. Sure. In the '431 patent, the users are
`uttering speech. The speech is converted to text.
`The '431 patent explicitly does not use predefined
`voice patterns as part of its recognition
`methodology. So when you say in the context of the
`'431 patent the users are uttering voice patterns, I
`would disagree because they're uttering speech, and
`the '431 patent's recognition engine does not really
`look for voice patterns. It's not in its logic to
`look for voice patterns.
` Q. If the speech recognition device was
`programmed to look for voice patterns, could you
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`www.alaris.us
`
`ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
`Phone: 1.800.280.3376
`
`Fax: 314.644.1334
`
`IPR2020-00686
`Apple EX1039 Page 29
`
`
`
` BENEDICT OCCHIOGROSSO 3/3/2021
`
`Page 30
`
`explain to me what it would be looking for?
` MR. McNAMARA: Object to form. Outside the
`scope.
` THE WITNESS: So this is not with respect
`to the '431 patent?
`BY MS. BAILEY:
` Q. That's correct.
` A. Okay.
` MR. McNAMARA: Same objection.
` THE WITNESS: The speech recognition device
`would capture as a function of time the spectral
`energy and, essentially, frequency spectrum of the
`voice over time. And store that. And then it would
`attempt to match that spectral energy with a
`reference
Accessing this document will incur an additional charge of $.
After purchase, you can access this document again without charge.
Accept $ Charge
Still Working On It
This document is taking longer than usual to download. This can happen if we need to contact the court directly to obtain the document and their servers are running slowly.
Give it another minute or two to complete, and then try the refresh button.
A few More Minutes ... Still Working
It can take up to 5 minutes for us to download a document if the court servers are running slowly.
Thank you for your continued patience.
This document could not be displayed.
We could not find this document within its docket. Please go back to the docket page and check the link. If that does not work, go back to the docket and refresh it to pull the newest information.
Your account does not support viewing this document.
You need a Paid Account to view this document. Click here to change your account type.
Your account does not support viewing this document.
Set your membership
status to view this document.
With a Docket Alarm membership, you'll
get a whole lot more, including:
- Up-to-date information for this case.
- Email alerts whenever there is an update.
- Full text search for other cases.
- Get email alerts whenever a new case matches your search.
One Moment Please
The filing “” is large (MB) and is being downloaded.
Please refresh this page in a few minutes to see if the filing has been downloaded. The filing will also be emailed to you when the download completes.
Your document is on its way!
If you do not receive the document in five minutes, contact support at support@docketalarm.com.
Sealed Document
We are unable to display this document, it may be under a court ordered seal.
If you have proper credentials to access the file, you may proceed directly to the court's system using your government issued username and password.
Access Government Site
