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`· · · · · · · UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
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`· · · · · · · ·BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
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`·4
`· ·LG Electronics, Inc.,· · · · · · )
`·5· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ) CASE: IPR2020-00195
`· · · · · · · · ·Petitioner,· · · · )
`·6· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ) AND
`· · ·vs.· · · · · · · · · · · · · · )
`·7· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ) CASE: IPR2020-00179
`· ·ImmerVision, Inc.,· · · · · · · ·)
`·8· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · )
`· · · · · · · · ·Patent Owner.· · · )
`·9· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · )
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`12· · · · · · · · · VIDEOCONFERENCE DEPOSITION OF
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`13· · · · · · · · · · · ·RUSSELL A. CHIPMAN
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`14· · · · · · · · · · · · · ·JULY 2, 2020
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`15· · · · · · · · · · · · · · 9:00 A.M.
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`21· · REPORTED BY:
`· · · SOMMER E. GREENE, RPR, CRR
`22· · CERTIFIED COURT REPORTER
`· · · CERTIFICATE NO. 50622
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`· · · · · · · UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
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`· · · · · · · ·BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
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`·4
`· ·LG Electronics, Inc.,· · · · · · )
`·5· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ) CASE: IPR2020-00195
`· · · · · · · · ·Petitioner,· · · · )
`·6· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ) AND
`· · ·vs.· · · · · · · · · · · · · · )
`·7· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ) CASE: IPR2020-00179
`· ·ImmerVision, Inc.,· · · · · · · ·)
`·8· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · )
`· · · · · · · · ·Patent Owner.· · · )
`·9· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · )
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`12· · · · · · · · · VIDEOCONFERENCE DEPOSITION OF
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`13· · · · · · · · · · · ·RUSSELL A. CHIPMAN
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`14· · · · · · · · · · · · · ·JULY 2, 2020
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`15· · · · · · · · · · · · · · 9:00 A.M.
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`21· · REPORTED BY:
`· · · SOMMER E. GREENE, RPR, CRR
`22· · CERTIFIED COURT REPORTER
`· · · CERTIFICATE NO. 50622
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`·1· · APPEARANCES:
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`·2
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`·3· · · · · ·For ImmerVision, Inc.:
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`·4
`· · · · · · · · ·PANITCH SCHWARZE BELISARIO & NADEL LLP
`·5· · · · · · · ·STEPHEN E. MURRAY, ESQ.
`· · · · · · · · ·2001 Market Street, Suite 2800
`·6· · · · · · · ·Philadelphia, Pennsylvania 19103
`· · · · · · · · ·215.965.1307
`·7· · · · · · · ·Smurray@panitchlaw.com
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`·8
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`·9
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`10· · · · · ·For LG Electronics:
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`11
`· · · · · · · · ·MORGAN LEWIS & BOCKIUS LLP
`12· · · · · · · ·BRADFORD A. CANGRO, ESQ.
`· · · · · · · · ·1400 Page Mill Road
`13· · · · · · · ·Palo Alto, California 94304
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`·1· · · · · · · · · · · · · · I N D E X
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`·2
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`·3· · WITNESS: RUSSELL A. CHIPMAN
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`·4
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`·5· · EXAMINATION· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · PAGE
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`·6
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`·7· · MR. MURRAY......................................5
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`·8
`· · · · · · · · · · · · · · *· · ·*· · ·*
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`·1· · · · · · · · · · · · INDEX TO EXHIBITS
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`·2· · EXHIBIT· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · MARKED
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`·3
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`·4
`· · Exhibit 1· · Declaration of Russell Chipman,· · ·7
`·5· · · · · · · ·Ph.D.
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`·6· Exhibit 2· · '990 patent· · · · · · · · · · · · ·11
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`·7· Exhibit 3· · '999 patent· · · · · · · · · · · · ·11
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`·8· Exhibit 4· · LGE Exhibit 1013· · · · · · · · · · 28
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`·1· · · · · · · · · · · · ·PHOENIX, ARIZONA
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`·2· · · · · · · · · · ·JUNE 2, 2020; 9:00 A.M.
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`·3
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`·4· · · · · · · · · · · ·RUSSELL A. CHIPMAN,
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`·5· · called as a witness herein, having been first duly sworn
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`·6· · by the Certified Reporter to speak the whole truth and
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`·7· · nothing but the truth, was examined and testified as
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`·8· · follows:
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`·9
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`10· · · · · · · · · · · · · ·EXAMINATION
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`11· · BY MR. MURRAY:
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`12· · · · Q.· · Okay.· Thank you.· Good morning, Dr. Chipman.
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`13· · Could you please state your full name for the record?
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`14· · · · A.· · Um, my full name is Russell Atwood Chipman.
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`15· · · · Q.· · And could you give us your present business
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`16· · address?
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`17· · · · A.· · My present business address is the College of
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`18· · Optical Sciences University of Arizona, 1630 East
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`19· · University Boulevard, Tucson, Arizona, 85718 -- 85721.
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`20· · · · Q.· · Thank you.· Have you ever been deposed before?
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`21· · · · A.· · Yes.
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`22· · · · Q.· · About how many times?
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`23· · · · A.· · Two other times.
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`24· · · · Q.· · Okay.· Do you remember when those two times
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`25· · were?
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`5/65
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`·1· · · · A.· · No.
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`·2· · · · Q.· · Do you remember what those depositions were
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`·3· · for?
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`·4· · · · A.· · Could you restate the question?
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`·5· · · · Q.· · Sure.· Do you remember what either of those
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`·6· · depositions were for?
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`·7· · · · A.· · One was regarding corner cube rays for street
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`·8· · signs, and one was regarding cell phone lenses.
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`·9· · · · Q.· · Were either of those depositions for an inter
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`10· · partes review?
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`11· · · · A.· · I don't think so.
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`12· · · · Q.· · Were both of those depositions related to
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`13· · patents?
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`14· · · · A.· · Yes.
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`15· · · · Q.· · So I'm just going to go over a couple of ground
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`16· · rules for today's deposition.· And especially since we're
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`17· · doing this remotely, it's especially important for you to
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`18· · answer out loud for the benefit of the court reporter.
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`19· · · · · · · · ·If you don't understand a question, please
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`20· · ask me to rephrase it or to repeat it.· Is there any
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`21· · reason you can't give your full, fair, and honest
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`22· · testimony here today?
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`23· · · · A.· · Yes.
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`24· · · · Q.· · And you understand that the oath you just took
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`25· · is the same as you would in a court of law?
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`6/65
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`·1· · · · A.· · I understand.
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`·2· · · · Q.· · Okay.· And as I understand, Brad will be
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`·3· · defending your deposition today.· He will make objections
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`·4· · for the record.· But unless he instructs you not to
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`·5· · answer, I will request that you answer the question.· All
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`·6· · right?
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`·7· · · · A.· · Understand.
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`·8· · · · Q.· · If you need a break, please let me know.
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`·9· · · · A.· · Okay.
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`10· · · · Q.· · I'm happy to oblige unless a question is
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`11· · pending.
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`12· · · · · · · · ·Okay.· I have put into the Box.com a
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`13· · document labeled Exhibit 1.· Were you able to open that?
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`14· · · · A.· · Yes, I am.
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`15· · · · · · · · ·MR. MURRAY:· Okay.· And for the record, this
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`16· · is -- I've marked this as Exhibit 1.· It's the
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`17· · Declaration of Russell Chipman, Ph.D., labeled LGE
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`18· · Exhibit 1008.
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`19· · · · · · · · ·(Exhibit 1 was marked for identification.)
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`20· · · · Q.· · BY MR. MURRAY:· And Dr. Chipman, have you seen
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`21· · this document before?
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`22· · · · A.· · Yes, I've seen this before.
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`23· · · · Q.· · Okay.· And if I could ask you to turn to the
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`24· · last page, page 63.· Let me know when you're there.
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`25· · · · A.· · I'm there.
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`·1· · · · Q.· · Is that your signature?
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`·2· · · · A.· · That is my signature.
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`·3· · · · Q.· · Okay.· And on paragraph 106, you declared that
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`·4· · under penalty of perjury, everything in this declaration
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`·5· · is true and correct?
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`·6· · · · A.· · It didn't quite say that.
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`·7· · · · · · · · ·"I declare all statements made herein of my
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`·8· · knowledge are true, and that all statements made on
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`·9· · information and belief are believed to be true, and that
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`10· · these statements remain with the knowledge that willful
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`11· · false statements and the like are made punishable by fine
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`12· · or imprisonment or both under Section 1001 of Title 18 of
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`13· · the United States Code."
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`14· · · · · · · · ·I don't know if that's the same as the
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`15· · statement, which you asked me to concur with.
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`16· · · · Q.· · That's fine.
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`17· · · · · · · · ·Now, this declaration discusses both claims
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`18· · 5 and 121 of US Patent No. 6,844,990.· Correct?
`
`19· · · · A.· · Correct.
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`20· · · · Q.· · Is it all right if I refer to that as --
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`21· · (inaudible)?
`
`22· · · · A.· · There was some sound interference.
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`23· · · · Q.· · Sorry.· Is it all right if I refer to that
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`24· · patent as the '990 patent?
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`25· · · · A.· · Certainly.· Let's refer to it as the '990
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`·1· · patent.
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`·2· · · · Q.· · Okay.· And are you aware that each of claims 5
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`·3· · and 21 has its own separate proceeding currently pending
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`·4· · before the Patent Trial and Appeal Board?
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`·5· · · · A.· · I'm aware of that.
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`·6· · · · Q.· · Your understanding is that this declaration was
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`·7· · submitted in both proceedings?
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`·8· · · · A.· · I think so.
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`·9· · · · Q.· · Okay.· Did you draft this declaration yourself?
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`10· · · · A.· · I drafted much of it.
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`11· · · · Q.· · And you formed these conclusions independently?
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`12· · · · A.· · I formed these conclusions independently.
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`13· · · · Q.· · As you sit here today, does this declaration
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`14· · include the complete bases for your opinions in the
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`15· · proceeding related to claim 5 of the '990 patent?
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`16· · · · · · · · ·MR. CANGRO:· Objection to form.
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`17· · · · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· Does it include the complete
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`18· · basis?· Well, I reviewed a large amount of material and
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`19· · did a large number of calculations and summarized my
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`20· · opinions in this document.
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`21· · · · Q.· · BY MR. MURRAY:· And when you say you reviewed a
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`22· · large number of materials, are those materials all listed
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`23· · in your declaration?
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`24· · · · A.· · They're listed in my declaration, the reference
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`25· · materials that were provided to me.· But I also performed
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`·1· · a lot of calculations and had to think at length about
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`·2· · the material in the patent.
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`·3· · · · · · · · ·So it sets forth my opinions, but I'm not
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`·4· · sure about the legal meaning here of "complete basis."
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`·5· · · · Q.· · Okay.· And would the same be true for the
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`·6· · proceeding related to claim 21?
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`·7· · · · A.· · Right.· I mean, for example, I've been a
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`·8· · student of optical science and had many courses that
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`·9· · helped me form my opinions that I've taught, and that's
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`10· · helped further refine my opinions.· And so complete basis
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`11· · sounds very expansive.
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`12· · · · Q.· · What did you do to prepare for today's
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`13· · deposition?
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`14· · · · A.· · I reviewed my deposition.· I reviewed
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`15· · associated court documents.· I reviewed the patent at
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`16· · issue and other patents that are described in my
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`17· · statement.
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`18· · · · Q.· · I'm sorry.· When you refer to "statement," you
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`19· · mean your declaration?
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`20· · · · A.· · I mean my declaration.
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`21· · · · Q.· · Okay.· Just wanted to be clear.
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`22· · · · · · · · ·And when you say the other patents referred
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`23· · to in your declaration, are you referring to the prior
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`24· · art materials?
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`25· · · · A.· · I'm referring to the prior art materials.
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`·1· · · · Q.· · Okay.· Let me do this just for -- to make
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`·2· · things easier.· Could you open Exhibit 2 in today's
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`·3· · deposition folder?
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`·4· · · · A.· · I've opened the '990 patent.
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`·5· · · · · · · · ·(Exhibit 2 was marked for identification.)
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`·6· · · · Q.· · BY MR. MURRAY:· Okay.· And so you recognize
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`·7· · this document as the '990 patent.· Correct?
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`·8· · · · A.· · Correct.
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`·9· · · · Q.· · Okay.· And I have just moved in a third
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`10· · exhibit.· If you could open that one.
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`11· · · · · · · · ·(Exhibit 3 was marked for identification.)
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`12· · · · Q.· · BY MR. MURRAY:· For the record, Exhibit 3 is
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`13· · US Patent 5,861,999.
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`14· · · · A.· · So I have opened the '999 patent.
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`15· · · · Q.· · Okay.· So you recognize this document?
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`16· · · · A.· · I recognize this document.
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`17· · · · Q.· · Okay.· Is it all right for today's deposition
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`18· · we refer to it as Tada?
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`19· · · · A.· · Yes, it's okay to refer to it as Tada.
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`20· · · · Q.· · Okay.· Have you ever been retained by
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`21· · petitioner in this proceeding LG Electronics before?
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`22· · · · A.· · I'm not retained by LG Electronics; I'm
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`23· · retained by Morgan Lewis.
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`24· · · · Q.· · Okay.· And have you ever been retained by
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`25· · Morgan Lewis before?
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`·1· · · · A.· · Yes, I have.
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`·2· · · · Q.· · How many times?
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`·3· · · · A.· · I think once.
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`·4· · · · Q.· · When were you previously retained by
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`·5· · Morgan Lewis?
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`·6· · · · A.· · It was about ten years ago.
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`·7· · · · Q.· · And what sort of case was that for?
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`·8· · · · A.· · That was a case involving cell phone lenses.
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`·9· · · · Q.· · That was a patent case?
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`10· · · · A.· · That was a patent case.
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`11· · · · Q.· · Do you recall the names of the attorneys you
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`12· · worked with on that case?
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`13· · · · A.· · I recall one name, Jeremy Peterson.
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`14· · · · Q.· · And did you represent the patent owner in that
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`15· · case?
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`16· · · · A.· · I think that Morgan Lewis represented the
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`17· · patent owner.
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`18· · · · Q.· · Okay.· Have you done work for LG Electronics
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`19· · before?
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`20· · · · A.· · No.
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`21· · · · Q.· · Okay.· And you currently -- you said you
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`22· · currently are employed at the University of Arizona in
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`23· · the College of Optical Sciences?
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`24· · · · A.· · That's (inaudible).
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`25· · · · Q.· · We just had an audio -- could you repeat that,
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`·1· · please?
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`·2· · · · A.· · (Inaudible).
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`·3· · · · · · · · ·MR. MURRAY:· Can we go off the record for a
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`·4· · second?
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`·5· · · · · · · · ·(A discussion was held off the record.)
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`·6· · · · Q.· · BY MR. MURRAY:· So I believe the question I had
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`·7· · asked was, Dr. Chipman, whether you were currently
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`·8· · employed by the University of Arizona in the College of
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`·9· · Optical Sciences.
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`10· · · · A.· · I'm going to disconnect and reconnect.
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`11· · · · · · · · ·(A discussion was held off the record.)
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`12· · · · Q.· · BY MR. MURRAY:· So, sorry, we've had audio
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`13· · difficulties.
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`14· · · · · · · · ·Could you just confirm you are currently
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`15· · employed by the University of Arizona in the College of
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`16· · Optical Sciences.· Correct?
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`17· · · · A.· · I am currently employed by the University of
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`18· · Arizona in College of Optical Sciences.
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`19· · · · Q.· · Are you familiar with the Industrial Affiliates
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`20· · program at the College of Optical Sciences?
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`21· · · · A.· · I am with familiar with (inaudible).
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`22· · · · · · · · ·(A discussion was held off the record.)
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`23· · · · Q.· · BY MR. MURRAY:· Can you hear me okay?
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`24· · · · A.· · I can hear you.
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`25· · · · Q.· · Okay.· Terrific.· I apologize again for the
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`·1· · audio.
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`·2· · · · · · · · ·The question was, are you familiar with the
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`·3· · Industrial Affiliates program at the College of Optical
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`·4· · Sciences?
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`·5· · · · A.· · Yes.· The College of Optical Sciences has an
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`·6· · Industrial Affiliates program.
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`·7· · · · Q.· · What is the Industrial Affiliates program?
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`·8· · · · A.· · The Industrial Affiliates program is a program
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`·9· · which helps introduce our students to companies and
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`10· · companies to students and provides a means to bring
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`11· · together the optics community and optics companies around
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`12· · our college.
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`13· · · · Q.· · What does a company have to do to be part of
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`14· · that program?
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`15· · · · A.· · There's an annual fee that a company pays.
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`16· · · · Q.· · Do you know about how much that fee is?
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`17· · · · A.· · I don't know the fee structure.
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`18· · · · Q.· · Are you aware that LG Electronics is part of
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`19· · that affiliates program?
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`20· · · · A.· · No.· I don't remember meeting anyone from LG at
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`21· · our Industrial Affiliates events.
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`22· · · · Q.· · All right.· So let's go back to your
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`23· · declaration.
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`24· · · · · · · · ·And you -- as part of your declaration, you
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`25· · analyzed the Tada reference we looked at earlier.
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`·1· · Correct?
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`·2· · · · A.· · Yes.· I analyzed the Tada reference in my
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`·3· · declaration.
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`·4· · · · Q.· · And you analyzed it using software called
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`·5· · Code V.· Correct?
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`·6· · · · A.· · I analyzed it using Code V.
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`·7· · · · Q.· · And that is the Code V software that's
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`·8· · currently offered by a company called Synopsys?
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`·9· · · · A.· · Code V is currently offered by Synopsys.
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`10· · · · Q.· · Are there other optical design software options
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`11· · besides Code V?
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`12· · · · A.· · There are many other optical design software
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`13· · options besides Code V.
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`14· · · · Q.· · Can you name some?
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`15· · · · A.· · OSLO or Kidger program.
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`16· · · · · · · · ·COURT REPORTER:· What was that second one,
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`17· · Doctor?
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`18· · · · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· Like Kidger, K-i-d-g-e-r.
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`19· · · · · · · · ·THE REPORTER:· Thank you.
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`20· · · · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· There's another one called
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`21· · F-R-E-D.· There's another one called Synopsys.
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`22· · · · Q.· · BY MR. MURRAY:· Are you familiar with a program
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`23· · called Zemax?
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`24· · · · A.· · The Zemax is another program which does this
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`25· · type of analysis.
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`·1· · · · Q.· · Zemax would be viewed in the industry as
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`·2· · similar to Code V?
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`·3· · · · A.· · It would be viewed in the industry, yes, but
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`·4· · more difficult?· Could you restate the end of that
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`·5· · sentence?
`
`·6· · · · Q.· · Sure.· Sure.· Zemax would be viewed in the
`
`·7· · industry as being similar to Code V.· Correct?
`
`·8· · · · A.· · Well, they all have (inaudible) capabilities.
`
`·9· · I'm not sure how similar I regard them if you're asking
`
`10· · my opinion.
`
`11· · · · Q.· · Have you ever used Zemax before?
`
`12· · · · A.· · I have used Zemax.
`
`13· · · · Q.· · Okay.· So getting back to Code V, what version
`
`14· · of Code V did you use to prepare the data in your
`
`15· · declaration?
`
`16· · · · A.· · I used the current version in October and
`
`17· · November of 2019.
`
`18· · · · Q.· · Do you know when that version was first
`
`19· · introduced?
`
`20· · · · A.· · It was introduced in 2018 or 2019.
`
`21· · · · Q.· · All right.· Let's turn to paragraph 46 of your
`
`22· · declaration, which is pages 25 to 26.
`
`23· · · · A.· · Okay.· Paragraph 46?
`
`24· · · · Q.· · Yes.· Okay.
`
`25· · · · · · · · ·So as part of your declaration, you
`
`16/65
`
`
`
`·1· · reconstructed one of Tada's lenses using Code V.
`
`·2· · Correct?
`
`·3· · · · A.· · I set up a computer-aided model of the lens.
`
`·4· · · · Q.· · Okay.· And to create that model, in
`
`·5· · paragraph 46, it says you input information from Table 5.
`
`·6· · Is that correct?
`
`·7· · · · A.· · So what I said in my declaration, I was able to
`
`·8· · reconstruct the lens in Figure 11 above using the
`
`·9· · information in Table 5 of Tada, which provides for the
`
`10· · prescription of the third embodiment lens, the same
`
`11· · embodiment of Figure 11.
`
`12· · · · Q.· · Okay.· And as part of that, you input the
`
`13· · F-number from Table 5 in Tada into Code V.· Is that
`
`14· · correct?
`
`15· · · · A.· · As I stated, I input the following information
`
`16· · from Table 5 into an optical design program called
`
`17· · Code V.· The F-number, that's the FNO, the W values, the
`
`18· · values in the R, D, Nd, and vd columns, and the
`
`19· · aspherical data information.
`
`20· · · · Q.· · Okay.· What is the F-number?
`
`21· · · · A.· · The F-number is the cone of light coming to
`
`22· · focus at the image point.· It's just describing the cone
`
`23· · of light.
`
`24· · · · Q.· · Okay.· And what is the W value?
`
`25· · · · A.· · The W value here is the angle or the edge of
`
`17/65
`
`
`
`·1· · the field of view of the lens.
`
`·2· · · · Q.· · And the values in the R column, what do those
`
`·3· · represent?
`
`·4· · · · A.· · The values in the vd column?
`
`·5· · · · Q.· · No, the R column.
`
`·6· · · · A.· · The R column represents the radius of the
`
`·7· · curvature of the lenses -- lens surfaces.
`
`·8· · · · Q.· · Okay.· And what do the D values represent?
`
`·9· · · · A.· · The D column in Tada's Table 5 is the thickness
`
`10· · or separation between the vertices of the optical
`
`11· · element's surfaces.
`
`12· · · · Q.· · Okay.· We're going to come back to Nd and vd.
`
`13· · · · · · · · ·But what's listed here in paragraph 46, is
`
`14· · that all the information you entered into Code V from
`
`15· · Tada?
`
`16· · · · A.· · So this is the information contained in Tada's
`
`17· · Table 5.· We can go to Tada and compare.
`
`18· · · · Q.· · All right.· I have it up.· Let me know when
`
`19· · you're ready.
`
`20· · · · A.· · So in column 9 of the Tada patent, we see the
`
`21· · lens prescription.· And under the header, it lists the
`
`22· · F-number.· It lists a focal length of 1.· It lists an
`
`23· · angle W of 58.5 degrees.· It provides back focal distance
`
`24· · of 2.79.· And then there are tables that were just
`
`25· · described for each curvature surface going through
`
`18/65
`
`
`
`·1· · surface 15.· And then in the bottom, like a footnote is
`
`·2· · the aspherical data.
`
`·3· · · · Q.· · Okay.· Did you use the focal length in Table 5
`
`·4· · at all in Code V when you did your analysis?
`
`·5· · · · A.· · The focal lens is already contained in the
`
`·6· · radius and curvature of refractive index of information.
`
`·7· · So it's there for reference.
`
`·8· · · · Q.· · Okay.· Did you take any other data from Tada
`
`·9· · and put it into Code V when you did your analysis?
`
`10· · · · A.· · This comprises the prescription for this lens.
`
`11· · · · Q.· · Okay.· So let's go back to the Nd column.· What
`
`12· · do the values in the Nd column represent?
`
`13· · · · A.· · The Nd column describes the refractive index of
`
`14· · the light of the glass for yellow light and it's used to
`
`15· · identify the glass that the lens might de-fabricate on.
`
`16· · · · Q.· · Okay.· Can we turn to column 5 of Tada, running
`
`17· · around line 43.· And it says there, "In the following
`
`18· · tables and diagrams, the d-line, g-line and c-line
`
`19· · represent the chromatic aberrations represented by
`
`20· · spherical aberrations at the respective wavelengths."
`
`21· · · · · · · · ·Do you see that?
`
`22· · · · A.· · I see that.
`
`23· · · · Q.· · And then a little further down around line 50,
`
`24· · it says, "Nd designates the refractive index of the
`
`25· · d-line."
`
`19/65
`
`
`
`·1· · · · · · · · ·Correct?
`
`·2· · · · A.· · Correct.
`
`·3· · · · Q.· · Okay.· What is the d-line referring to?
`
`·4· · · · A.· · The d-line is referring to a wavelength of
`
`·5· · light in the yellow band, admission from sodium gas.
`
`·6· · · · Q.· · Sorry, you said "sodium gas"?
`
`·7· · · · A.· · Yes.
`
`·8· · · · Q.· · Okay.· Is this sometimes referred to as a -- I
`
`·9· · hope I pronounce this correctly, a Fraunhofer line?
`
`10· · · · A.· · It is referred to as -- the wavelength as a
`
`11· · Fraunhofer line.
`
`12· · · · Q.· · Okay.· And are there multiple Fraunhofer lines
`
`13· · that are referred to as a d-line?
`
`14· · · · · · · · ·MR. CANGRO:· Objection.
`
`15· · · · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· There's a lower-case D.
`
`16· · There's an upper-case D.
`
`17· · · · Q.· · BY MR. MURRAY:· And what's the difference
`
`18· · between the two?
`
`19· · · · A.· · One is approximately 587, and the other is
`
`20· · approximately 589 millimeters.
`
`21· · · · Q.· · How do you know which d-line Tada is referring
`
`22· · to?
`
`23· · · · A.· · By whether it's lower case or upper case.· The
`
`24· · lower case is the more common, the more standard.
`
`25· · · · Q.· · And you said that's the sodium.· Right?
`
`20/65
`
`
`
`·1· · · · A.· · Right.
`
`·2· · · · Q.· · And is that the 589 or 587?
`
`·3· · · · A.· · 589.
`
`·4· · · · Q.· · And that's the standard wavelength for
`
`·5· · characterizing materials in optical (inaudible)?
`
`·6· · · · A.· · Yes.
`
`·7· · · · Q.· · Okay.· What is the g-line?
`
`·8· · · · A.· · The g-line and c-line represent a red
`
`·9· · wavelength and the blue wavelength.
`
`10· · · · Q.· · Do you know what wavelength the g-line refers
`
`11· · to?
`
`12· · · · A.· · I don't remember exactly what wavelengths. I
`
`13· · would have to look it up.
`
`14· · · · Q.· · Do you have an approximate idea?
`
`15· · · · A.· · Well, the blue line is around 450 nanometers.
`
`16· · · · Q.· · How about the red line?
`
`17· · · · A.· · There's several standard lines we use in the
`
`18· · red.· I don't remember the exact value.
`
`19· · · · Q.· · Is the g-line also a standard wavelength used
`
`20· · for characterizing materials in optical design?
`
`21· · · · A.· · Yes.
`
`22· · · · Q.· · And similarly, is the c-line a standard
`
`23· · wavelength used to characterize materials in optical
`
`24· · design?
`
`25· · · · A.· · That's correct.
`
`21/65
`
`
`
`·1· · · · Q.· · Okay.· Now, going back to the index of
`
`·2· · refraction.· An index of refraction varies for material
`
`·3· · depending on wavelength.· Correct?
`
`·4· · · · A.· · That's correct.
`
`·5· · · · Q.· · So when Tada gives the index of refraction at
`
`·6· · the d-line, it may have a different index of refraction
`
`·7· · at the g-line.· Correct?
`
`·8· · · · A.· · That's correct.
`
`·9· · · · Q.· · Okay.· Let's go to the vd column.· What is --
`
`10· · what do the values in the vd column represent?
`
`11· · · · A.· · The values in vd column are the Abbe number for
`
`12· · the glass or optical material used for the lens elements.
`
`13· · · · Q.· · What is an Abbe number?
`
`14· · · · A.· · An Abbe number, when it's referred to with the
`
`15· · subscript P, represents the refractive index in the blue
`
`16· · minus the refractive index in the red divided by the
`
`17· · refractive index of the d-line minus 1.
`
`18· · · · Q.· · What is that used for?
`
`19· · · · A.· · That's used to describe the variation of the
`
`20· · refractive index and the dispersion of the optical
`
`21· · material.
`
`22· · · · Q.· · And you also talked about the aspherical data
`
`23· · at the bottom of Table 5.
`
`24· · · · A.· · Correct.
`
`25· · · · Q.· · And that consists of aspherical coefficients
`
`22/65
`
`
`
`·1· · for surfaces 3 and 4 in Table 5.· Is that right?
`
`·2· · · · A.· · Yes.· Surfaces 3 and 4 have aspherical
`
`·3· · coefficients provided.
`
`·4· · · · Q.· · Now, you mentioned earlier that the Nd values
`
`·5· · in Table 5 can be used to identify the glass of that
`
`·6· · lens.· Is that correct?
`
`·7· · · · A.· · So a particular glass will have a D value and
`
`·8· · an Abbe number.· Several different glasses from different
`
`·9· · manufacturers might have the same or almost the same Nd
`
`10· · or Abbe number.
`
`11· · · · Q.· · So different types of materials may have the
`
`12· · same Nd and vd number -- or Nd and Abbe number.· Correct?
`
`13· · · · A.· · That's correct.
`
`14· · · · Q.· · Now, when you entered this information into
`
`15· · Code V, were you required to select a glass type?
`
`16· · · · A.· · No.· Code V will let you enter the Nd and the
`
`17· · Abbe number.
`
`18· · · · Q.· · And from that Code V is able to reconstruct the
`
`19· · lens even without the material?
`
`20· · · · A.· · This is the material specification.· We would
`
`21· · just call it a description in terms of index and Abbe
`
`22· · number.
`
`23· · · · Q.· · Are you essentially creating a custom glass
`
`24· · with that procedure?
`
`25· · · · A.· · Creating a what glass?
`
`23/65
`
`
`
`·1· · · · Q.· · A custom glass?
`
`·2· · · · A.· · I missed a word there.· Custom glass?
`
`·3· · · · Q.· · Custom glass, yes.
`
`·4· · · · A.· · I don't know what you said.
`
`·5· · · · Q.· · So if I'm understanding correctly, Code V
`
`·6· · allows you to specify the Nd and Abbe numbers to form the
`
`·7· · lens.· Correct?
`
`·8· · · · A.· · Yes.
`
`·9· · · · Q.· · Okay.· But it doesn't require you to select a
`
`10· · particular material for the lens?
`
`11· · · · A.· · Right.· And if you look in the majority of
`
`12· · patents with optical glass, the glass didn't specify
`
`13· · standard in patents to provide the index and Abbe number.
`
`14· · · · Q.· · Now, you said, though, that several different
`
`15· · types of glass may have the same index and Abbe number.
`
`16· · Correct?
`
`17· · · · A.· · Correct.
`
`18· · · · Q.· · Could those different glasses perform
`
`19· · differently at, let's say, lower wavelengths?
`
`20· · · · · · · · ·MR. CANGRO:· Objection to form.
`
`21· · · · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· Could they perform differently
`
`22· · at lower wavelengths?· If they have the same index and
`
`23· · the same Abbe number, they would be expected to perform
`
`24· · almost the same.· And so in refractive index -- you know,
`
`25· · very small changes in refractive index don't make a
`
`24/65
`
`
`
`·1· · difference.· Changes of the order of 10 to the minus 6,
`
`·2· · 10 to the minus 7 don't make a difference.
`
`·3· · BY MR. MURRAY:
`
`·4· · · · Q.· · Looking at Table 5, let's look at the second
`
`·5· · lens element, which is pictures 3 and 4.· And this is an
`
`·6· · index of refraction arrow 1.49176.· Do you see that?
`
`·7· · · · A.· · I see that.
`
`·8· · · · Q.· · And Abbe number of 57.4?
`
`·9· · · · A.· · I see that.
`
`10· · · · Q.· · Are you familiar with any materials having
`
`11· · these properties?
`
`12· · · · A.· · I mean, at this time, without reference to my
`
`13· · glass catalog, I don't have an opinion on that.· But if I
`
`14· · were to get into my books and my reference materials, I
`
`15· · would be able to identify materials very quickly that
`
`16· · have those approximate values.
`
`17· · · · Q.· · Okay.· You didn't do that for these lenses in
`
`18· · Tada.· Correct?
`
`19· · · · A.· · Can you repeat yourself?
`
`20· · · · Q.· · Sure.· You didn't go to your catalog to ID the
`
`21· · materials for any of these lenses in Tada.· Is that
`
`22· · correct?
`
`23· · · · A.· · I probably looked at it.
`
`24· · · · Q.· · But that's not in your declaration.· Correct?
`
`25· · · · A.· · That's correct.· But that's outside the scope
`
`25/65
`
`
`
`·1· · of what's presented in the Tada patents.
`
`·2· · · · Q.· · So just to be clear, outside of the data that's
`
`·3· · presented in Table 5, including the aspherical data, you
`
`·4· · didn't have to enter any other data from Tada into
`
`·5· · Code V.· Correct?
`
`·6· · · · · · · · ·MR. CANGRO:· Objection to form.
`
`·7· · · · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· Is there some point you're
`
`·8· · trying to make?· Because I don't understand where this
`
`·9· · question is going.
`
`10· · · · Q.· · BY MR. MURRAY:· I just want to understand the
`
`11· · exact process you used to analyze the Tada lens
`
`12· · embodiment.· So I'm just trying to make clear on the
`
`13· · record that whether everything that's in Table 5 is all
`
`14· · you had to enter into Code V to do your analysis.
`
`15· · · · A.· · So to enter the -- to perform the analysis that
`
`16· · I performed, I also chose wavelengths to evaluate the
`
`17· · lens at.
`
`18· · · · Q.· · Did --
`
`19· · · · A.· · And I had to look at the sizes of the lenses.
`
`20· · And the only information I had regarding that was the
`
`21· · figures.
`
`22· · · · Q.· · When you say the size of the lenses, what are
`
`23· · you referring to?
`
`24· · · · A.· · Well, there's an option to put in aperture onto
`
`25· · a lens and to only allow rays to pass within the aperture
`
`26/65
`
`
`
`·1· · and stop rays which pass outside the aperture.
`
`·2· · · · Q.· · And did you use that option when you formed
`
`·3· · your lens model in Code V?
`
`·4· · · · A.· · I put in the aperture shown between Figure 6
`
`·5· · and Figure 7.
`
`·6· · · · Q.· · When you say Figure 6 and Figure 7, are you
`
`·7· · referring to --
`
`·8· · · · A.· · I mean, surface 6 and surface 7 of Table 5.
`
`·9· · There's a line that says "diaphragm."
`
`10· · · · Q.· · Okay.· And that comes -- that diaphragm is
`
`11· · specified in Table 5.· Is that correct?
`
`12· · · · A.· · That diaphragm follows from the F-number of
`
`13· · 1.3.
`
`14· · · · Q.· · So you said you also had to choose wavelengths
`
`15· · to perform your analysis.· Correct?
`
`16· · · · A.· · That's correct.
`
`17· · · · Q.· · And are any of those wavelengths mentioned in
`
`18· · Tada?
`
`19· · · · A.· · So Tada mentions the d-line, the c-line, and
`
`20· · the g-line wavelengths.
`
`21· · · · Q.· · Did you use any of those wavelengths in your
`
`22· · (inaudible)?
`
`23· · · · A.· · Yes.· I used those wavelengths.
`
`24· · · · Q.· · All right.· We'll come back to that.
`
`25· · · · · · · · ·As part of your analysis, you produced a
`
`27/65
`
`
`
`·1· · table of data.· Correct?
`
`·2· · · · A.· · Are you referring to -- why don't you tell me
`
`·3· · what table you're referring to.
`
`·4· · · · Q.· · Sure.· Let me add it to the box.
`
`·5· · · · · · · · ·Okay.· It should be in there now as
`
`·6· · Exhibit 4.
`
`·7· · · · · · · · ·(Exhibit 4 was marked for identification.)
`
`·8· · · · · · · · ·MR. MURRAY:· For the record, Exhibit 4 is
`
`·9· · LGE Exhibit 1013, and it starts on the first page of a
`
`10· · table of seven columns, and the first column is a 38
`
`11· · number.
`
`12· · · · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· Yes.· I'm referring to that
`
`13· · document.
`
`14· · BY MR. MURRAY:
`
`15· · · · Q.· · Okay.· So you recognize this document?
`
`16· · · · A.· · Yes, I created this document.
`
`17· · · · Q.· · Okay.· Now, according to -- actually, let me
`
`18· · ask you this first.· You said you did use the c, d, and g
`
`19· · lines for your analysis.
`
`20· · · · · · · · ·Could you tell me which of the tables in
`
`21· · Exhibit 4 here refers to the d-line?
`
`22· · · · A.· · So the 587 table refers to the d-lines.
`
`23· · · · Q.· · If I recall, you said earlier this d-line was
`
`24· · the sodium d-line, which is 589, and that the other
`
`25· · d-line was 587.· Am I recalling your testimony correctly?
`
`28/65
`
`
`
`·1· · · · A.· · That's correct.· So this is the 587 line.
`
`·2· · · · Q.· · Can you refer me to which table you used for
`
`·3· · the c-line?
`
`·4· · · · A.· · So I did not use the c-line.· I used the
`
`·5· · wavelength of 450 nanometers.
`
`·6· · · · Q.· · Okay.· How about the g-line?
`
`·7· · · · A.· · I did not use the g-line.· I used 700 nanometer
`
`·8· · wavelength.
`
`·9· · · · Q.· · Okay.· Now, so let's just go back to the first
`
`10· · page of the table.· According to paragraph 52 of your
`
`11· · declaration, on page 31 of the declaration, it says that
`
`12· · the first two columns of the tabulated data "Alpha and
`
`13· · Real Chief Ray Image Height were received from the Code V
`
`14· · program."
`
`15· · · · · · · · ·Is that correct?
`
`16· · · · A.· · That's correct.
`
`17· · · · Q.· · Okay.· Now, the next column is Relative
`
`18· · Distance (dr).· Correct?
`
`19· · · · A.· · Relative Distance (dr).
`
`20· · · · Q.· · And that is a normalization of the Real Chief
`
`21· · Ray Image Height?
`
`22· · · · A.· · That's correct.· So the bottom of that colum
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