Transcript of Richard A. Flasck
`
`Date: November 11, 2020
`Case: Samsung Display Co., LTD. -v- Solas Oled, LTD. (PTAB)
`
`Planet Depos
`Phone: 888.433.3767
`Email:: transcripts@planetdepos.com
`www.planetdepos.com
`
`WORLDWIDE COURT REPORTING | INTERPRETATION | TRIAL SERVICES
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`SAMSUNG EX. 1017 - 1/244
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`Date: November 11, 2020
`Case: Samsung Display Co., LTD. -v- Solas Oled, LTD. (PTAB)
`
`Planet Depos
`Phone: 888.433.3767
`Email:: transcripts@planetdepos.com
`www.planetdepos.com
`
`WORLDWIDE COURT REPORTING | INTERPRETATION | TRIAL SERVICES
`
`SAMSUNG EX. 1017 - 1/244
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` UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`- - - - - - - - - - - - - x
`SAMSUNG DISPLAY CO. LTD. :
`AND DELL INC., :
` Petitioner, : Case IPR2020-00140
` v. :
`SOLAS OLED, LTD, : Patent No. 6,072,450
` Patent Owner. :
`- - - - - - - - - - - - - X
`
` Videotaped Deposition of RICHARD A. FLASCK
` Conducted Virtually
` Wednesday, November 11, 2020
` 12:10 p.m. EST
`
`Job No.: 332078
`Pages 1 - 193
`Reported by: Debra A. Whitehead
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`Transcript of Richard A. Flasck
`Conducted on November 11, 2020
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`2
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` Videotaped Deposition of RICHARD A. FLASCK,
`conducted virtually.
`
` Pursuant to notice, before Debra Ann Whitehead,
`E-Notary Public in and for the Commonwealth of
`Virginia.
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`Transcript of Richard A. Flasck
`Conducted on November 11, 2020
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`3
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` A P P E A R A N C E S
` ON BEHALF OF PETITIONER:
` DAVID A. GARR, ESQUIRE
` COVINGTON & BURLING LLP
` One CityCenter
` 859 Tenth Street, NW
` Washington, DC 20001
` (202) 662-6000
`
`ON BEHALF OF PATENT OWNER:
` NEIL RUBIN, ESQUIRE
` RUSS AUGUST & KABAT
` 12424 Wilshire Boulevard
` Los Angeles, California 90025
` (310) 826-7474
`
`ALSO PRESENT:
` MICHAEL BRATKOWSKI, Video Specialist
` BRIDGETTE RAST, A/V Specialist
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`Transcript of Richard A. Flasck
`Conducted on November 11, 2020
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`4
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` C O N T E N T S
`EXAMINATION OF RICHARD A. FLASCK PAGE
` By Mr. Garr 6
`
` EXHIBITS MARKED IN PRIOR SESSIONS
` (Not attached)
`SOLAS DEPOSITION EXHIBIT PAGE
` Exhibit 2001 Declaration of Richard A. 12
` Flasck in Support of Patent
` Owner's Response
` Exhibit 2002 Curriculum Vitae of R. Flasck 29
` Exhibit 2007 Signed Declaration of Richard 15
` A. Flasck in Support of Patent
` Owner's Response
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`SAMSUNG DEPOSITION EXHIBIT PAGE
` Exhibit 1001 U.S. Patent No. 6,072,450 33
` Exhibit 1003 U.S. Patent No. 5,670,792 84
` Exhibit 1007 Declaration of Adam Fontecchio, 121
` Ph.D.
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`Transcript of Richard A. Flasck
`Conducted on November 11, 2020
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`5
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` P R O C E E D I N G S
` VIDEO SPECIALIST: Good morning. We're
`on the record at 12:10 p.m. eastern on November
`11, 2020.
` Here begins the videotaped deposition of
`Richard Flasck in the matter of Samsung Display
`Company Limited and Dell Incorporated, versus
`Solas OLED, Limited; filed in the United States
`Patent and Trademark Office, Patent Trial and
`Appeal Board; Case Number IPR2020-00140.
` Today's deposition is taking place via
`the video web conference due to the COVID-19
`pandemic. My name is Michael Bratkowski, a
`videographer representing Planet Depos.
` Counsel on the call, please identify
`yourself and state whom you represent.
` MR. GARR: So good morning -- good
`afternoon. For the petitioner, this is David
`Garr, with Covington & Burling, in Washington, DC.
` MR. RUBIN: This is Neil Rubin of Russ,
`August & Kabat, representing the patent owner
`Solas.
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`Transcript of Richard A. Flasck
`Conducted on November 11, 2020
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`6
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` VIDEO SPECIALIST: The court reporter
`today is Debbie Whitehead, representing Planet
`Depos.
` Will the court reporter please swear in
`the witness.
` RICHARD A. FLASCK,
` having been duly sworn, testified as follows:
` EXAMINATION BY COUNSEL FOR PETITIONER
`BY MR. GARR:
` Q Okay. Good morning, Mr. Flasck.
` A Good morning.
` Q Would you please state, spell your name
`for the record.
` A Richard Flasck, R-I-C-H-A-R-D; Flasck,
`F-L-A-S-C-K.
` Q And what's your home address?
` A My address is 10045 Nantucket Drive, San
`Ramon, California, 94582.
` Q Is that where you're located now?
` A Yes.
` Q This isn't your first deposition.
` Correct?
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`Transcript of Richard A. Flasck
`Conducted on November 11, 2020
`
`7
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` A That's correct.
` Q You've been deposed before?
` A Yes.
` Q And have you been deposed in other IPR
`proceedings?
` A Yes.
` Q And in district court proceedings?
` A Yes.
` Q And approximately how many times have you
`been deposed?
` A Probably ten, 11 times.
` Q Have any of those been remote video
`depositions, like this one?
` A Yes.
` Q Approximately how many remote video
`depositions have you done?
` A Approximately four.
` Q You understand there is currently ongoing
`litigation in district court between Solas and
`Samsung Display Company that concerns the '450
`patent that's at issue in this IPR?
` A I don't know any of the details, but I
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`Transcript of Richard A. Flasck
`Conducted on November 11, 2020
`
`8
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`believe that there is a district court action,
`yes.
` Q And you provided a declaration in that
`action, correct, about claim construction?
` A Yes.
` Q And you were deposed on that declaration?
` A I believe so.
` Q Okay. But you didn't provide any expert
`opinions in that matter about infringement or
`validity, did you?
` A I would have to go back and look. But I
`do not believe I did.
` Q Okay. So this is a remote deposition,
`but we'll aim to conduct it as consistently as we
`can in terms of making it like an in-person
`deposition.
` So I'll be asking questions, and I expect
`that you will answer them to the best of your
`ability.
` Is that fair?
` A That's fair.
` Q And if you don't understand a question,
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`Transcript of Richard A. Flasck
`Conducted on November 11, 2020
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`9
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`please let me know so I can attempt to clarify.
`If you do answer, I'll assume you understood.
` Is that fair?
` A Yes.
` Q So I don't expect this deposition will
`take the entire day, but like an in-person
`deposition, I will aim to take breaks
`approximately every hour or so.
` Does that sound good?
` A That's fine.
` Q And if there is a point that you need a
`break, please let me know. I would just -- and we
`can take a break. I would just ask that if we're
`in the middle of a line of questions, that we
`finish that active line of questions before
`breaking.
` Does that sound fair?
` A I understand.
` Q Do you have any -- or let me start over.
` What electronic devices do you have in
`front of you right now?
` A Right in front of me, I have my laptop,
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`Transcript of Richard A. Flasck
`Conducted on November 11, 2020
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`10
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`and to my right I have my desktop computer.
` Q Okay. Are you -- do you also have a -- a
`phone in front of you or at your desk?
` A No.
` Q Okay. During this deposition I ask that
`you not engage with any communications with --
`with anyone, is that -- other than the sort of
`deposition session.
` Is that fair?
` A I'm sorry, what was -- what was that,
`again?
` Q I -- I just, during this deposition, I
`expect you will not be communicating separately
`with anyone, such as by a phone call or a text
`message.
` A All right. Is there a question?
` Q Will you agree with that?
` A I'm not sure that I -- all communication
`is prohibited. But I certainly will not engage in
`any communication with anyone regarding any aspect
`of this case.
` Q Okay. During the active deposition
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`Transcript of Richard A. Flasck
`Conducted on November 11, 2020
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`11
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`sessions, will you be engaging in any
`communications other than through this Zoom
`session?
` A I don't intend to.
` Q Okay. If you do, will you please let us
`know?
` A All right.
` Q And if someone calls you or sends you a
`message and attempts to communicate with you, will
`you let us know that for the record?
` A I can do that.
` Q Okay. So unless you do that, I'll assume
`that you're not engaged in any offline
`communications while this deposition is
`proceeding.
` Is that fair?
` A Okay.
` Q Do you have any papers in front of you,
`or documents that you've brought with you to this
`deposition?
` A I don't have any documents on my desk
`here.
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`Transcript of Richard A. Flasck
`Conducted on November 11, 2020
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`12
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` Q Okay. Any documents in your, sort of
`computer in front of you?
` A On my laptop -- let's see. I may have --
`I have a -- an unrelated document. I can close
`that, if you'd like. Okay. And on my desktop to
`my right, I have -- I have a few of the exhibits
`open.
` Q The exhibits in this IPR?
` A Yes.
` Q Okay. Anything else?
` A No.
` Q Okay. So you submitted a declaration in
`this IPR proceeding. Correct?
` A Yes.
` MR. GARR: And I would like to ask to
`have Exhibit 2001 brought up on the screen.
` (Solas Exhibit 2001, previously marked,
`not attached.)
` Q And, Mr. Flasck, I believe -- I'm going
`to ask you, the first question about this is
`whether you recognize the document. And the next
`question is going to be what it is.
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`13
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` So I believe there's a way that you can
`take control of the document to page through it.
`And I would ask that you sort of do that, and
`we'll see if the document sharing works.
` Let me know if you're able to access the
`document.
` A Okay. I see the document. I'm scrolling
`through it.
` Q So the question I have is, do you
`recognize this document?
` A I would have to compare with my copy, but
`it appears to be my declaration in support of the
`patent owner's response in this -- in this case.
` Q Okay. Do you recall when you started
`working on this?
` A On this patent?
` Q On this declaration.
` A Oh, it was last January when I was first
`engaged by RAK Law on a -- on a number of patents.
`And I would have to go back in my records and make
`sure. But I believe I began working on this in
`either June or July.
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`Transcript of Richard A. Flasck
`Conducted on November 11, 2020
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`14
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` Q When you say "this," what are you
`referring to?
` A Oh, I believe back in June or July I
`was -- I was asked some questions regarding the --
`the '450 patent.
` Q And so June or July is when you first
`began working on expert testimony concerning the
`'450 patent?
` A I believe so. It may have been a bit
`before that, but it was -- it was in that time
`frame.
` Q How much time did you spend working on
`this declaration?
` A Again, I would have to go back and -- and
`look at my records. I don't have any firm
`estimate at this point.
` Q Do you expect it was more than ten hours?
` A Very probably.
` Q More than 50?
` A Again, I would have to go back. Fifty is
`possible.
` Q Less than a hundred?
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`Transcript of Richard A. Flasck
`Conducted on November 11, 2020
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`15
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` A Again, I would have to go back and look
`at my records. Probably less than a hundred.
` Q If you turn to the last page of the
`declaration, there's a -- a signature line that's
`blank.
` Do you see that?
` A Just a second.
` Yes, I see that.
` Q Okay. Do you have an understanding as to
`why this exhibit was submitted without a --
`without your signature on it?
` A No. I -- I, personally, signed on the
`signature line, scanned it, and -- and e-mailed it
`to the attorneys. I don't know why this copy does
`not have my signature on it.
` MR. GARR: Okay. I'd like to ask to have
`Exhibit 2007 pulled up on the screen, please.
` (Solas Exhibit 2007, previously marked,
`not attached.)
` Q And, Mr. Flasck, can you please take a
`look at Exhibit 2007 and -- oh, sorry, that's not
`it. Oh, maybe it is.
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`16
`
` Turn to the last page of Exhibit 2007,
`please. Okay. So --
` A Yeah.
` Q This was submitted, I'll represent, as a
`corrected copy of your declaration, including your
`signature.
` Can you confirm that that is -- that I
`have that understanding correct?
` A That is my signature, yes.
` Q Okay. And my understanding is that the
`only difference between these two declarations,
`what's been submitted as Exhibit 2001 and what's
`been submitted as Exhibit 2007, is that the latter
`document includes your signature.
` Am I correct about that?
` A I wasn't the one that submitted those
`documents to you. I -- I assume that that's the
`case. But, again, I was not the one that
`submitted the documents to you.
` Q Okay. Would you please look at Exhibit
`2007 and confirm that that's the document that
`contains the -- the opinion testimony that you
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`Transcript of Richard A. Flasck
`Conducted on November 11, 2020
`
`17
`
`intended to offer in this case?
` A I -- yes, I believe my opinions are
`contained in this document.
` I would point out that the -- the last
`sentence in the Paragraph 76, there is a typo. It
`says the -- it references the '891 patent. It
`should be the '450 patent.
` Q Okay. What is the '891 patent?
` A That's another patent that I had worked
`on.
` Q Okay. Are you aware of any other typos
`or errors in this document?
` A I reviewed this document before -- before
`this deposition. I ran into one or two small
`typos that I thought were inconsequential, so I
`didn't really make any note of them.
` Q Okay. You don't recall what those are
`off the top of your head now?
` A No, I don't.
` Q Okay. Other than the typo you just
`identified and the inconsequential ones that you
`referenced, are you aware of any other errors in
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`Transcript of Richard A. Flasck
`Conducted on November 11, 2020
`
`18
`
`this document?
` A No, I'm not.
` Q Okay. And is it your understanding that
`this Exhibit 2007 is the same as Exhibit -- what
`was submitted as Exhibit 2001, except that it
`includes your signature?
` A Again, I wasn't the one that submitted
`the documents, but I assume that the two documents
`are the same.
` Q You don't have any reason to think that
`they differ, other than the addition of your
`signature?
` A I have no reason to think that they're
`different, other than my signature.
` Q Okay. I would like to use for purposes
`of this deposition Exhibit 2001, just to -- for
`administrative convenience. And since that's the
`one that's referred to in the papers.
` So I'm going to ask to have Exhibit 2007
`pulled down, and Exhibit 2001 put up. But my
`understanding is that the documents are
`substantively identical. Okay?
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`Transcript of Richard A. Flasck
`Conducted on November 11, 2020
`
`19
`
` A Okay.
` Q Okay. And then let's go to the bottom of
`this document, where -- where you called attention
`to that typo about the '891 patent, please.
` A Yes.
` Q Okay. And scroll up so we can see the
`full paragraph. This is Paragraph 76.
` Do you see that?
` A Yes.
` Q And so when you signed this document,
`your understanding was that all the statements in
`it were believed to be true at the time. Correct?
` A Yes.
` Q And do you continue to believe they are
`true today?
` A Yes.
` Q Other than the errors that you
`identified?
` A Yes.
` Q Okay. And is the testimony that you
`provided in this declaration, does it consist of
`your own opinions?
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`Transcript of Richard A. Flasck
`Conducted on November 11, 2020
`
`20
`
` A Yes, this contains my opinions.
` Q Okay. Did you have any assistance in
`preparing this declaration?
` A Well, the declaration was prepared in
`iterative fashion. I would write a section. The
`attorneys would look at it, and there would be
`edits back and forth. But ultimately the document
`contains my opinions and analysis, with the
`exception of the legal standards section. I am
`not an attorney, and the legal standards section
`was -- was written by the attorneys, and we
`discussed that.
` Q Okay. Let's go to the first page of the
`document, please. And I'm going to ask you some
`questions about Paragraph 2.
` Okay. Does Paragraph 2 define the scope
`of what you undertook in this IPR? Let me reask
`that question.
` Does Section 2 identify the scope of the
`opinions that you were asked to provide in this
`IPR?
` A Yes, I believe so. I mean, operationally
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`Transcript of Richard A. Flasck
`Conducted on November 11, 2020
`
`21
`
`I was asked to basically provide a technical
`response or technical opinions regarding
`essentially the opinions provided by
`Dr. Fontecchio. Is that how the name is
`pronounced?
` But, yes, I was -- I was asked to look at
`the anticipation and obviousness of those claims.
` Q And this paragraph refers to arguments
`made by Apple, Inc.
` Is that erroneous?
` A Oh. Interesting. Okay. I would -- I
`would like to go back and look at the -- look at
`the petition. If -- if the petition was -- if the
`IPR petition was from Samsung, then that Apple
`should be Samsung.
` Q Yeah, the petitioner here, I'll represent
`to you, is Samsung Display Company Limited, and
`Dell, Inc.
` A Okay. So that's -- that should be --
`that should be, yeah, that should be -- the
`petitioner is not -- not Apple.
` Q Okay. Let's turn to Paragraph 3, please.
`
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`Transcript of Richard A. Flasck
`Conducted on November 11, 2020
`
`22
`
` And this lists items that you reviewed in
`connection with preparing this declaration.
` Correct?
` A Yes.
` Q Any other materials that you reviewed in
`connection with preparing this declaration?
` A I mean, I probably -- probably reviewed
`the claim construction order. I don't know if
`that's listed there. Oh, and -- okay. I looked
`at the claim construction order, and I believe
`there was a supplement to the claim construction
`order. I probably looked at the -- some notes
`that -- that I had developed in -- in this -- for
`the '450 patent, actions that -- from the claim
`construction and from -- and from this
`declaration.
` Q Okay. You understand -- oh, sorry.
` Anything else?
` A Not that I can recall right now.
` Q You understand that your declaration was
`provided in support of a patent owner response
`brief that Solas filed?
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`Transcript of Richard A. Flasck
`Conducted on November 11, 2020
`
`23
`
` A That's my understanding.
` Q Have you read that document?
` A Yeah, I may have. I don't -- I don't
`recall reading that document. I may have.
` Q And did you -- did you participate in
`preparing it?
` A In preparing the patent owner's -- the
`preliminary -- the POPR, what is that, the patent
`owner's preliminary response?
` No, I did not participate in -- in that.
` Q Okay. And you understand that there's
`something called a patent owner preliminary
`response and something separate called the patent
`owner response?
` A I'm not a lawyer. I don't know the
`distinction.
` Q Okay. You understand that your
`declaration was provided in support of a response
`brief that Solas filed. Correct?
` A Yeah, it is -- the title says, In support
`of patent owner's response.
` Q Right. And I guess the question I'm
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`Transcript of Richard A. Flasck
`Conducted on November 11, 2020
`
`24
`
`asking is, have you read that document?
` A I'm not sure. If you have a copy of it,
`I'd be happy to look through it.
` Q Did you participate in preparing the
`patent owner response?
` A Not that -- not that I recall. Not
`directly.
` Q What do you mean by "not directly"?
` A Well, again, I'm not an attorney. I'm
`not even sure what a patent owner's response is.
`But I could imagine that since this declaration is
`in support of that patent owner response, that
`some of my opinions were used in the patent owner
`response.
` So, you know, I may have been
`indirectly -- at least indirectly involved in the
`patent owner response. If you're asking me did I
`draft anything for the patent owner's response,
`I -- I don't believe I did.
` Q Okay. Your declaration provides a number
`of opinions directed to particular claim elements
`of the '450 patent. Correct?
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`Transcript of Richard A. Flasck
`Conducted on November 11, 2020
`
`25
`
` A My declaration provides opinions for some
`specific claims in the '450 patent.
` Q And those claims are identified, among
`other places, in the table of contents. Correct?
` A The claims that I specifically provided
`opinions on are in the table of contents.
` Q Okay. So that's Limitation 1[c],
`Limitations 4[a] and 4[b], Claim 8, Limitation
`15[f], and Limitations 15[j] and [k].
` Correct?
` A Yes, that's what's in the table of
`contents.
` Q And you didn't provide opinions directed
`to any of the other claim limitations, did you?
` A No. I read the other -- I read the other
`claims and the other claim limitations, but these
`are the ones that I provided opinions on.
` Q Okay. Please turn to Paragraph 49, which
`is on Page 17.
` A Okay.
` Q Okay. You in this paragraph address --
`let me see. There's a sentence that spans Pages
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`Transcript of Richard A. Flasck
`Conducted on November 11, 2020
`
`26
`
`17 through 18 which notes, "While I do not
`separately discuss the limitations of dependent
`Claims 2, 5 through 7, and 15 through 16, the same
`failures to show invalidity in the independent
`claims apply to these dependent claims."
` Do you see that?
` A I see that.
` Q And so you're not offering any specific
`opinions directed to these dependent claims and
`the limitations in them, are you?
` MR. RUBIN: Objection. Form.
` A I'm offering opinions on the claims and
`claim elements that were in the table of contents
`and are in different various paragraphs here. I
`indirectly am offering opinions on many of the
`dependent claims because I feel that the
`independent Claims 1 and 15, that the -- that the
`petitioner has failed to establish the -- that the
`independent Claims 1 and 15 are anticipated or
`obvious.
` And since the dependent claims narrow the
`independent claims, that would mean that the --
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`Transcript of Richard A. Flasck
`Conducted on November 11, 2020
`
`27
`
`the independent claims are -- are also not
`anticipated or obvious.
` And I do point out that I have some
`opinions, specific opinions on Claims 4 and 8, in
`addition to my opinions on the independent claims
`in terms of their -- their not being anticipated
`or obvious.
` Q You understand that for certain dependent
`claims, the petition relies on a combination of
`Utusgi with a reference called Manabe?
` A I believe that's true.
` Q And for other claims the petition relies
`on a combination of Utusgi with a reference called
`Eida.
` A I believe that's also true.
` Q But you're not offering any opinions
`about the Utsugi/Manabe combination or the
`Utusgi/Eida combination, are you?
` MR. RUBIN: Objection. Form.
` A Besides Utusgi, I believe the only -- the
`only other piece of purported prior art that I
`looked at and considered in developing my opinions
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`Transcript of Richard A. Flasck
`Conducted on November 11, 2020
`
`28
`
`was Kishita.
` Q Okay. Would you please turn to Paragraph
`58 on Page 22.
` This paragraph contains the opinions that
`you are offering about Limitations 4[a] and 4[b].
` Correct?
` A Yes.
` Q So the basis for your opinions that
`Utusgi doesn't anticipate or render obvious the
`limitations of Claim 4 are based on the same
`analysis as what you undertake for Claim 1.
` Correct?
` A Yes. The -- the narrowing for
`Limitations 4[a] and 4[b] are just that the -- the
`active elements are the -- are the -- the
`transistors.
` Q
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