UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`________________________________________
`BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`________________________________________
`ROKU, INC.,
`Petitioner,
`v.
`UNIVERSAL ELECTRONICS, INC.
`Patent Owner.
`_________________________________________
`Case No. IPR2019-01613
`U.S. Patent 8,004,389
`
`Virtual Deposition of
`MICHAEL D. SPRENGER, Ph.D.
`Wednesday, September 16, 2020
`8:00 a.m. MST
`
`Job No.: 320998
`Pages: 1 - 64
`Reported by: Elisabeth A. Miller Lorenz, RMR, CRR
`
`1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1
`
`0
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`
`Roku EX1032
`Roku v. Universal Electronics
`IPR2019-01614
`
`
`________________________________________
`BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`________________________________________
`ROKU, INC.,
`Petitioner,
`v.
`UNIVERSAL ELECTRONICS, INC.
`Patent Owner.
`_________________________________________
`Case No. IPR2019-01613
`U.S. Patent 8,004,389
`
`Virtual Deposition of
`MICHAEL D. SPRENGER, Ph.D.
`Wednesday, September 16, 2020
`8:00 a.m. MST
`
`Job No.: 320998
`Pages: 1 - 64
`Reported by: Elisabeth A. Miller Lorenz, RMR, CRR
`
`1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1
`
`0
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`
`Roku EX1032
`Roku v. Universal Electronics
`IPR2019-01614
`
`
`
`Transcript of Michael D. Sprenger, Ph.D.
`Conducted on September 16, 2020
`
`2
`
` Virtual deposition of MICHAEL D. SPRENGER,
`Ph.D., taken pursuant to notice, before Elisabeth
`A. Miller Lorenz, Registered Merit Reporter, Certified
`Realtime Reporter, and a Notary Public in and for the
`state of Tennessee.
`
`1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1
`
`0
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`
`PLANET DEPOS
`888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM
`
`
`
`Transcript of Michael D. Sprenger, Ph.D.
`Conducted on September 16, 2020
`
`3
`
` A P P E A R A N C E S
`
`ON BEHALF OF PETITIONER:
` TIMOTHY L. TANG, ESQUIRE
` LESTIN KENTON, ESQUIRE
` Sterne Kessler
` 1100 New York Avenue, N.W.
` Washington, D.C. 20005-3934
` 202.371.2600
` ttang@sternekessler.com
` lkenton@sternekessler.com
`
`ON BEHALF OF PATENT OWNER:
` NICHOLAS T. TSUI, ESQUIRE
` THOMAS W. DAVISON, ESQUIRE
` BENJAMIN S. PLEUNE, ESQUIRE
` 1201 West Peachtree Street
` Suite 4900
` Atlanta, Georgia 30309
` 404.881.4962
` nick.tsui@alston.com
` ben.pleune@alston.com
`
`1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1
`
`0
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`
`PLANET DEPOS
`888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM
`
`
`
`Transcript of Michael D. Sprenger, Ph.D.
`Conducted on September 16, 2020
`
`4
`
`A P P E A R A N C E S (Continued)
`
`ALSO PRESENT:
`Jon Bortolini, Audiovisual Technician
`
`1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1
`
`0
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`
`PLANET DEPOS
`888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM
`
`
`
`Transcript of Michael D. Sprenger, Ph.D.
`Conducted on September 16, 2020
`
`5
`
` C O N T E N T S
`EXAMINATION OF MICHAEL D. SPRENGER, Ph.D. PAGE
` By Mr. Tang 6
`
` E X H I B I T S
`SPRENGER DEPOSITION EXHIBITS PAGE
` Exhibit 5 Declaration of Dr. Sprenger 15
` Exhibit 6 '389 Patent 18
`
`1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1
`
`0
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`
`PLANET DEPOS
`888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM
`
`
`
`Transcript of Michael D. Sprenger, Ph.D.
`Conducted on September 16, 2020
`
`6
`
` P R O C E E D I N G S
` THE STENOGRAPHER: Will counsel please
`stipulate that in lieu of formally swearing in the
`witness, the reporter will instead ask the witness
`to acknowledge that their testimony will be true
`under the penalties of perjury, that counsel will
`not object to the admissibility of the transcript
`based on proceeding in this way, and that the
`witness has verified that he is in fact Dr. Michael
`D. Sprenger?
` MR. TANG: We agree.
` MR. TSUI: Agree.
` THE WITNESS: I do. I agree. I'm
`Michael Sprenger. I wasn't sure.
`Whereupon,
` MICHAEL D. SPRENGER, Ph.D.,
`called as a witness herein, having first
`acknowledged under penalty of perjury, was examined
`and testified as follows:
` EXAMINATION BY COUNSEL FOR THE PETITIONER
`BY MR. TANG:
` Q How are you today, Dr. Sprenger?
`
`1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1
`
`0
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`
`PLANET DEPOS
`888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM
`
`
`
`Transcript of Michael D. Sprenger, Ph.D.
`Conducted on September 16, 2020
`
`7
`
` A Good morning. Very well.
` How about yourself?
` Q Good. Good.
` So today you understand that you're here
`to provide testimony regarding your declaration for
`IPR2019-01613 related to U.S. Patent No. 8,004,389,
`correct?
` A That's correct, yes.
` Q And as we talked about yesterday, we'll
`also discuss your other declaration related to
`U.S. Patent No. 9,911,325 after completing the '389
`patent, correct?
` A I understand that, yes.
` Q And just so the record is clear, we went
`over a number of guidelines and rules yesterday and
`procedures for these remote depositions, correct?
` A Yes, I remember.
` Q And you understand that those guidelines
`and rules that we set forth yesterday and that we
`agreed to yesterday will equally apply here,
`correct?
` A Yes, I understand that.
`
`1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1
`
`0
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`
`PLANET DEPOS
`888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM
`
`
`
`Transcript of Michael D. Sprenger, Ph.D.
`Conducted on September 16, 2020
`
`8
`
` Q So yesterday we were talking about
`different modulation techniques.
` Do you recall that?
` A I do.
` Q And about how many different modulation
`techniques are you aware of?
` A That's not an easy question to answer
`because it really depends on how you categorize
`different modulation schemes. There are different
`ways to group these together into modulation schemes
`that apply mainly to digital communications, and
`others apply mainly to analog forms of modulation --
`analog -- excuse me, I correct myself, analog forms
`of communication.
` Q So how many, I guess, digital modulation
`schemes are you aware of?
` A Again, it's not an easy question to
`answer because it really depends how we group and
`categorize these together. If you want a very, very
`rough starting point, I can give you a general
`guideline. It will not be a hard-and-fast number.
` Let's think of about half a dozen
`
`1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1
`
`0
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`
`PLANET DEPOS
`888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM
`
`
`
`Transcript of Michael D. Sprenger, Ph.D.
`Conducted on September 16, 2020
`
`9
`
`approximately that could -- would make sense to
`categorize, and we can always refine those if needed
`or we can make a broader range of categorization so
`we would end with fewer groups. But, say, half a
`dozen as a starting point strikes me as a reasonable
`number.
` Q So you're saying that there aren't more
`than half a dozen types of modulation schemes for
`digital communication?
` MR. TSUI: Objection, mischaracterizes.
` THE WITNESS: No, I did not say that.
`Let me -- let me phrase the answer a different way.
` I wanted to give you a very, very rough
`range. So it's not hundreds; it's not thousands;
`it's not one or two; it's -- let's call it a
`handful.
`BY MR. TANG:
` Q So not more than ten?
` A See, that ten is still within roughly the
`range, I'd say, depending on how we group and
`categorize those. I could see it is entirely
`feasible to come up with different -- 10 different
`
`1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1
`
`0
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`
`PLANET DEPOS
`888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM
`
`
`
`Transcript of Michael D. Sprenger, Ph.D.
`Conducted on September 16, 2020
`
`10
`
`modulation schemes, may be even 12 or more.
` What I'm saying is, it's not hundreds;
`it's not thousands; it's not one or two; so it's --
`it's half a dozen, maybe even a dozen depending on
`how you group those together and how you categorize
`everything.
` Q Will you -- so I guess -- I -- I
`appreciate that there's different groups.
` Can you describe a few of those groups?
` A Would you like digital modulation or
`modulation schemes for digital communication or for
`analog?
` Q Let's focus on digital.
` A I'll just give you a few off the top of
`my head. This is not intended to be an exhaustive
`list, and it's entirely possible that I could at the
`moment not think of some -- some of these schemes
`that might be deemed potentially important ones.
` So one would be pulse with modulation.
`It's often abbreviated as PWM, and that's one
`modulation scheme that we discussed in quite some
`detail yesterday.
`
`1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1
`
`0
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`
`PLANET DEPOS
`888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM
`
`
`
`Transcript of Michael D. Sprenger, Ph.D.
`Conducted on September 16, 2020
`
`11
`
` Another scheme is called QAM, Q-A-M, all
`capital, quadrature amplitude modulation. This is
`also a scheme we discussed in a bit of detail
`yesterday.
` Then there's another modulation scheme
`called QPSK, quadrature phase shift key, and that's
`also used in digital communication.
` There is a scheme called PPM. It's
`called -- that's the acronym, and it stands for
`pulse position modulation.
` There is another one that's quo- --
`related to it. It's called PDM, pulse density
`modulation.
` So I think that's about five or six I can
`come up with off the top of my head. If I pull out
`a textbook out of my shelf, there are probably a few
`more in there.
` Q Sure. I appreciate that.
` So I think I heard you mention a
`phrase -- or the word keying; is that correct?
` A So you had an audio dropout for a moment.
`I only heard part of your question.
`
`1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1
`
`0
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`
`PLANET DEPOS
`888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM
`
`
`
`Transcript of Michael D. Sprenger, Ph.D.
`Conducted on September 16, 2020
`
`12
`
` Q Sure.
` I think I heard you mention a phrase
`keying; is that correct?
` A Yes, I mentioned that as one of the
`modulation schemes that I listed.
` Q What does keying mean?
` A Keying can mean -- there's no very well
`or firmly defined term. Keying in this particular
`context can mean to turn something on or off.
` Q All right. And I think yesterday you
`mentioned also the existence of unmodulated
`sequence, right?
` A I did. We referred to those in the
`context of -- I believe if I recall correctly, of
`different choices that an engineer might have when
`it comes to implementing some of these methods that
`we discussed.
` Q And how many of those techniques are you
`aware of?
` A I would have to think about it. The one
`that comes to mind is the simple way of simply
`turning on and off a signal source. That's
`
`1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1
`
`0
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`
`PLANET DEPOS
`888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM
`
`
`
`Transcript of Michael D. Sprenger, Ph.D.
`Conducted on September 16, 2020
`
`13
`
`something we discussed in some detail yesterday.
`That is often referred to as unmodulated and as your
`expert, Dr. Russ, acknowledged multiple times, I
`understand, in his deposition several months ago.
` This is one example I can think of at the
`moment. I cannot think of another one.
` Q Did you review Dr. Russ' transcript from
`his deposition?
` A I did.
` Q And do you remember what he said in its
`entirety?
` A Are you referring to his entire
`transcript?
` Q Yes -- well, I guess, did you review his
`transcript in its entirety?
` A Oh, thank you for clarifying the
`question.
` I did review his transcript in its
`entirety. It was -- it was multiple documents. I
`believe it was three days' worth of deposition.
` Q Do you remember what he said about
`unmodulated techniques?
`
`1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1
`
`0
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`
`PLANET DEPOS
`888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM
`
`
`
`Transcript of Michael D. Sprenger, Ph.D.
`Conducted on September 16, 2020
`
`14
`
` A I do. He said -- and this is, of course,
`not verbatim. I'm quoting this from memory from
`when I read his transcript a while ago. I'm trying
`to recall as best as I can. He said -- give me a
`moment. I'm trying to remember. And, again, I
`cannot recall his exact words that I read in the
`transcript.
` He said something along the lines of --
`that unmodulated communication in such system is an
`option.
` Q And I think I heard you say that you were
`just aware of one potential unmodulated technique;
`is that right?
` MR. TSUI: Objection, mischaracterizes.
` THE WITNESS: So let me clarify this. I
`can -- at this point, I can recall one. That
`doesn't mean there aren't more, and I'm certainly
`not firm that there are, you know, more or less, but
`this is one that I can think of.
`BY MR. TANG:
` Q Just no other ones are coming to mind
`right now; is that right?
`
`1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1
`
`0
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`
`PLANET DEPOS
`888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM
`
`
`
`Transcript of Michael D. Sprenger, Ph.D.
`Conducted on September 16, 2020
`
`15
`
` MR. TSUI: Object to form.
` THE WITNESS: Not at this point.
`BY MR. TANG:
` Q Now I'd like to turn to your '389
`declaration if you have that handy. And you can
`also pull out the '389 patent as well.
` A Let me fetch that from the box.
` MR. TANG: For our technician, this
`should be the EX2003 ending in the 613 document.
` I see for the record we've marked this as
`Deposition Exhibit No. 5.
` (Marked Exhibit No. 5.)
` THE WITNESS: Okay. I have these two
`documents here.
`BY MR. TANG:
` Q So we'll put them on the screen here,
`which is a copy that's titled Declaration of
`Dr. Michael Sprenger in Support of Patent Owner's
`Response to Petition for Inter Partes Review of
`U.S. Patent No. 8,004,389.
` Do you see that, Dr. Sprenger?
` A I can see that, yes.
`
`1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1
`
`0
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`
`PLANET DEPOS
`888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM
`
`
`
`Transcript of Michael D. Sprenger, Ph.D.
`Conducted on September 16, 2020
`
`16
`
` Q And is this also a document that you have
`in front of you?
` A Yes, that's my document, and it indicates
`I think -- we don't need to go through the entire
`document here on the screen. It's hard for me to
`read. I think it indicates it's 167 pages, and the
`document I have here --
` Q So, Dr. Sprenger, if you would just like
`to flip through that document and make sure there
`aren't any errors or corrections that need to be
`made and that it is true and accurate.
` A It's just the document on the screen says
`it's 167 pages -- oh, okay. Never mind. They're
`counting the -- I'm just making sure it's all
`complete. We have some Roman numerals at the
`beginning.
` Never mind. Let me just flip through
`this. Let me just flip through this.
` Even though I just flipped through this
`in 30 seconds, I would say this is the document that
`I wrote.
` Q And sitting here today, are you aware of
`
`1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1
`
`0
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`
`PLANET DEPOS
`888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM
`
`
`
`Transcript of Michael D. Sprenger, Ph.D.
`Conducted on September 16, 2020
`
`17
`
`any errors or corrections that need to be made to
`that document?
` A I'm not aware of any.
` MR. TANG: So we can pull this down from
`the screen, and then we'll introduce the '389
`patent. For the technician, that will be EX1001,
`the '389 patent.
` We'll pull up EX1001, the '389 patent.
`BY MR. TANG:
` Q Dr. Sprenger, do you recognize this
`document in front of you that is on the screen?
` A Yes, I recognize that.
` If Jon, the technician, could maybe
`quickly scroll through that, we can make sure it's
`all complete.
` Thank you, Jon. Excellent. Thank you
`very much.
` Yes, this is the same document that I
`have a printed copy of here on my end.
` MR. TANG: And for the record, we'll mark
`this as Deposition Exhibit 6.
`
`1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1
`
`0
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`
`PLANET DEPOS
`888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM
`
`
`
`Transcript of Michael D. Sprenger, Ph.D.
`Conducted on September 16, 2020
`
`18
`
` (Marked Exhibit No. 6.)
` MR. TANG: Feel free to pull that down.
`BY MR. TANG:
` Q By any chance, Dr. Sprenger, do you still
`have the '642 patent from yesterday?
` A I do. Let me find it. There's a stack
`of documents from yesterday if you give me just a
`moment, please.
` Okay. Yes, I have the '642 patent at
`hand as well.
` Q Great.
` So what we're going to do first is look
`at the Claim 2 of the '389 patent.
` A Let me quickly read Claim 2 to make sure
`I have the correct context.
` Thank you. Go ahead.
` Q And I guess just to start, can we agree
`that Steps (a) through (c) of Claim 2 here are the
`same as the steps of Claim 1 of the '642 patent,
`Steps (a) through (c)?
` MR. TSUI: Objection, outside the scope.
` THE WITNESS: If you'll allow me to
`
`1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1
`
`0
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`
`PLANET DEPOS
`888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM
`
`
`
`Transcript of Michael D. Sprenger, Ph.D.
`Conducted on September 16, 2020
`
`19
`
`quickly compare these to make sure that these are
`indeed the same.
` So did you say Elements (a) through (c)?
`BY MR. TANG:
` Q That's correct.
` A Okay. Just a moment, please.
` So just a quick question for
`clarification. Perhaps I misunderstood.
` Are you saying I should compare Claim 1,
`Elements (a) through (c) in '389 and compare it with
`Claim 2, Elements (a) through (c) in '642?
` Q The other way.
` A The other way around?
` Q Yeah. Claim 2 of the '389 and Claim 1 of
`the '642.
` A Thank you for clarifying. I was
`momentarily confused.
` So perhaps I missed something, and I
`apologize for having to ask this again.
` When I look at -- sorry, let me have
`another look here. I'm probably mixing up some of
`these things.
`
`1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1
`
`0
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`
`PLANET DEPOS
`888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM
`
`
`
`Transcript of Michael D. Sprenger, Ph.D.
`Conducted on September 16, 2020
`
`20
`
` Q No worries.
` A So Claim 2 of '389 and Claim 1 of '642,
`right?
` Q Yes.
` A Okay. So looking at Element (b), there
`are some differences. One is a super set of the
`other.
` Q Can you describe the difference?
` A So I'm reading from Patent '389, Claim 2,
`Element (b). It says, Generating a key code within
`a key code generator device using the key stroke
`indicator signal wherein said key code is part of a
`codeset that controls an electronic consumer device.
`So that's '389, Claim 2, Element (b).
` '642, Claim 1, Element (b), says,
`Generating a key code within a key code generator
`device using the key stroke indicator signal,
`semicolon. That's it. It's a shorter claim
`element.
` Q So is our discussion about Element (b)
`yesterday still relevant to Element (b) in the '389?
` A I'm not sure I'm able to answer this
`
`1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1
`
`0
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`
`PLANET DEPOS
`888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM
`
`
`
`Transcript of Michael D. Sprenger, Ph.D.
`Conducted on September 16, 2020
`
`21
`
`question in terms of whether a discussion is
`relevant or not. This is really outside the scope
`of -- of my work. I can only offer technical
`expertise with respect to specific methods and
`technologies, not necessarily opinions in a matter
`that might be an issue of the law.
` Q Did you interpret Element (b) in the '389
`differently -- I think I'll start my question again.
` Can you hear me?
` A Yes, sorry, I had the microphone covered
`up with the paperwork.
` Q No worries.
` Did you analyze Element (b) from the '389
`differently from Element (b) of the '642?
` MR. TSUI: Object to form, outside the
`scope.
` THE WITNESS: I analyzed '389 the way
`it's phrased in -- in the patent itself. I did --
`at the time I studied these patents, I did make
`these comparisons, but I don't think I opined in my
`declaration on any of the specific differences
`between these particular claim elements.
`
`1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1
`
`0
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`
`PLANET DEPOS
`888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM
`
`
`
`Transcript of Michael D. Sprenger, Ph.D.
`Conducted on September 16, 2020
`
`22
`
`BY MR. TANG:
` Q Can I ask you about Element (d) of '389?
`Would you take a look at that?
` A In which claim is that, please?
` Q Claim 2 of the '389, Element (d).
` A Claim 2, Element (d), it says,
`Transmitting said key code signal from said key code
`generator device.
` Q So that doesn't indicate where the key
`code signal is sent, right?
` MR. TSUI: Object to form.
` THE WITNESS: The words on the page here
`that I have in front of me only say transmitting
`said key code signal from said key code generator
`device, so it's entirely possible that within
`context if we read text passages before or
`afterwards that this may be specified further.
`BY MR. TANG:
` Q You say text passages.
` Do you mean the rest of the claim?
` A Yes. Thank you. Thank you. The rest of
`the claim may potentially shed some light on that.
`
`1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1
`
`0
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`
`PLANET DEPOS
`888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM
`
`
`
`Transcript of Michael D. Sprenger, Ph.D.
`Conducted on September 16, 2020
`
`23
`
` Q Would you like to review the rest of the
`claim?
` A If you give me a moment, please. Thank
`you.
` Mr. Tang, if I could ask you to please
`restate your question.
` Q Sure. The question is whether Step (b)
`of Claim -- I'm sorry, excuse me, whether Step (d)
`of Claim 2 specifies where the key code signal is
`sent.
` A Thank you for clarifying that.
` Reading Claim 2, I do not see any
`specification with respect to where this signal is
`being sent.
` Q And can I now turn you to Paragraph 173
`of your declaration?
` A Give me just a moment, please. Allow me
`to quickly read that to make sure I understand
`context.
` Yes, go ahead, please.
` Q So in this paragraph, you describe two
`embodiments of the '389 patent, right?
`
`1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1
`
`0
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`
`PLANET DEPOS
`888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM
`
`
`
`Transcript of Michael D. Sprenger, Ph.D.
`Conducted on September 16, 2020
`
`24
`
` A Yes, I do.
` Q Are those the same two embodiments we
`discussed yesterday.
` A When you said what we discussed
`yesterday, we discussed many things. If you might
`be more specific, it would help me make that
`comparison.
` Q Sure.
` So yesterday we discussed two embodiments
`related to the '642 patent, right?
` A I do remember that, yes.
` Q Are those the same two embodiments that
`you refer to here?
` A To be really sure, I would have to
`quickly check my declaration for the '642 patent.
` Q Sure. If you have that available, you
`can feel free to --
` A Yes. If you give me a moment, I'm -- I
`have it here nearby.
` Q Sure. If it would be helpful, I think
`the paragraphs are 68 and 70 that we discussed
`yesterday.
`
`1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1
`
`0
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`
`PLANET DEPOS
`888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM
`
`
`
`Transcript of Michael D. Sprenger, Ph.D.
`Conducted on September 16, 2020
`
`25
`
` A Thank you for your help.
` So -- oh, 68 and 70 that we discussed in
`some detail yesterday, yes.
` Q Correct.
` A So the picture in my '389 declaration in
`Paragraph 173 is different than -- there are two
`pictures here. One is Paragraph 68 -- oh, sorry.
` In '642, there are two pictures; one is
`Paragraph 68, and one is Paragraph 70. They contain
`somewhat more detail than what is shown in my '389
`declaration in Paragraph 173.
` Q And so yesterday we discussed those two
`embodiments of the '642 patent, right?
` A Yes, we did.
` Q Are those the same two embodiments that
`you referred to in your '389 declaration?
` A So the '389 patent and the '642 patent
`have somewhat different claims when it comes to
`detecting certain devices. That's how the '389
`patent differ -- differs. So I'm not sure from a
`legal perspective if we can say that these are the
`same -- the exact same embodiments.
`
`1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1
`
`0
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`
`PLANET DEPOS
`888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM
`
`
`
`Transcript of Michael D. Sprenger, Ph.D.
`Conducted on September 16, 2020
`
`26
`
` And I did not comment on this or any of
`these finer differences in any of my declarations.
`It's really outside the scope of what my function
`is. I cannot offer opinions of the law. I can only
`offer technical expertise when it comes to --
`respect to some of these methods and technologies
`that we discuss.
` Q So you mentioned differences in the
`claims.
` The specification of the '642 and the
`'389 patent are the same, right?
` MR. TSUI: Object to form.
` THE WITNESS: The specifications are the
`same.
`BY MR. TANG:
` Q The two embodiments are in the
`specifications, right?
` A I see what you mean now. Yes, that's
`correct.
` Q So the two embodiments described in the
`specification of the '642 are the same two
`embodiments you're referring to here in the '389,
`
`1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1
`
`0
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`
`PLANET DEPOS
`888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM
`
`
`
`Transcript of Michael D. Sprenger, Ph.D.
`Conducted on September 16, 2020
`
`27
`
`right?
` MR. TSUI: Object to form.
` THE WITNESS: Now I understand what you
`mean, so the answer is yes.
`BY MR. TANG:
` Q So then Claim 2 -- switching to the claim
`now -- as you described in Paragraph 173 relates to
`both embodiments; is that right?
` A I'm sorry, there was a brief audio
`glitch, and I could not hear the second half of your
`question.
` Q Sure.
` So I'm looking at Paragraph 173, and it
`says here Claim 2 of the '389 patent relates to both
`embodiments; is that right?
` A That's correct.
` Q So I'd now like to look at the purpose of
`Claim 2 if it's both of these embodiments.
` What would you say is the purpose of
`Claim 2?
` MR. TSUI: Objection, outside the scope.
` THE WITNESS: If you wish, I can reread
`
`1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1
`
`0
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`
`PLANET DEPOS
`888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM
`
`
`
`Transcript of Michael D. Sprenger, Ph.D.
`Conducted on September 16, 2020
`
`28
`
`Claim 2 from the '389 patent.
`BY MR. TANG:
` Q Sure, that would be helpful.
` A Excuse me, Claim 2. A method comprising:
` (a), receiving a keystroke indicator
`signal from a remote control device wherein the
`keystroke indicator signal indicates a key on said
`remote control device that a user has selected;
` (b), generating a key code within a key
`code generator device using the keystroke indicator
`signal wherein said key code is part of a codeset
`that controls an electronic consumer device;
` (c), modulating said key code onto a
`carrier signal thereby generating a key code signal;
` (d), transmitting said key code signal
`from said key code generator device, and;
` (e), identifying said codeset using input
`from a user of said remote control device wherein
`said codeset is identified when said user stops
`pressing a key on said remote control device.
` Q Can you describe the function of Claim 2
`in lay terms?
`
`1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1
`
`0
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`
`PLANET DEPOS
`888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM
`
`
`
`Transcript of Michael D. Sprenger, Ph.D.
`Conducted on September 16, 2020
`
`29
`
` MR. TSUI: Objection, outside the scope.
` THE WITNESS: Claim 2 describes a method,
`and I'm simplifying here in somewhat sort of broader
`terms. Receiving some form of indicator, which the
`patent calls a keystroke indicator signal, from a
`remote control device and that particular keystroke
`indicator signal specifies a certain key that the
`user has pressed on his or her remote control.
` As a second step, the system then
`generates what we call a key code using device
`called a key code generator device. It uses that
`keystroke indicator signal received from the remote
`control to do that.
` As a third step, it then takes that key
`code it generated and places it onto a certain type
`of signal, which the patent calls a carrier signal,
`and it calls that signal a key code signal.
` As a fourth step, that key code signal is
`then transmitted from the key code generator device.
` And fourth -- I'm sorry, fifth, finally,
`the system identifies what is called a codeset using
`input that the user has made earlier using that same
`
`1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1
`
`0
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`
`PLANET DEPOS
`888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM
`
`
`
`Transcript of Michael D. Sprenger, Ph.D.
`Conducted on September 16, 2020
`
`30
`
`remote control device by -- the indication is done
`by pressing a key on that remote control device.
` In the context of the '389 patent, a
`codeset is a group or a set of valid key codes that
`applies to a certain consumer electronics device.
`BY MR. TANG:
` Q So would you say that the purpose of
`the -- of Claim 2 --
` MR. TSUI: Object to form.
`BY MR. TANG:
` Q I'll ask it again.
` So would you say that the purpose of
`Claim 2 is to identify a codeset?
` MR. TSUI: Object to form, outside the
`scope.
` THE WITNESS: I don't recall opining on
`this specific issues in my declaration. The
`identification -- okay. I'm sorry, I'm struggling
`to read the fine print here. Here we go. Let me
`just reread Element (e) from Claim 2.
` So Claim 2, Element (e) says, Identifying
`said codeset using input from a user of said remote
`
`1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1
`
`0
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`
`PLANET DEPOS
`888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM
`
`
`
`Transcript of Michael D. Sprenger, Ph.D.
`Conducted on September 16, 2020
`
`31
`
`control device wherein said codeset is identified
`when said user stops pressing a key on said remote
`control device.
` So identifying a codeset is one of the
`things that the claim describes.
`BY MR. TANG:
` Q Can you describe a practical application
`of these steps in this method?
` MR. TSUI: Objection, outside the scope.
` THE WITNESS: A practical application of
`these steps would be to identify -- let me say
`identify a codeset. It also means the system is
`able to identify a certain consumer electronics
`device that is associated with this codeset.
` And, of course, there are a number of
`other functions that are described in the claim
`Elements (a) through (d), so I could quickly go
`through all these and describe some form of
`application that would be applicable in this case.
`BY MR. TANG:
` Q I think that's okay. Maybe we'll come
`back to that.
`
`1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1
`
`0
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`
`PLANET DEPOS
`888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM
`
`
`
`Transcript of Michael D. Sprenger, Ph.D.
`Conducted on September 16, 2020
`
`32
`
` But, okay, I'd like to look at Step (e)
`that we were just talking about.
` So based on how this claim is written,
`would you agree that nothing in Step (e) indicates
`when this step occurs relative to the other steps?
` A Let me reread this again and see if I can
`find out. So I'm reading from Claim 2, Element (e).
`Identifying said codeset using input from a user of
`said remote control device wherein said codeset is
`identified when said user stops pressing a key on
`said remote control device.
` The claim element speaks of identifying
`the codeset. The words on the page, to the best of
`my abilities, do not specify when this particular
`step occurs.
` Q So Step (e) could be performed after
`Step (d), right?
` MR. TSUI: Object to form.
` THE WITNESS: Not necessarily. It does
`not specify when exactly this occurs. However, some
`of this information is needed in order for the
`system to be able to function properly. So Step (e)
`
`1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1
`
`0
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`
`PLANET DEPOS
`888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM
`
`
`
`Transcript of Michael D. Sprenger, Ph.D.
`Conducted on September 16, 2020
`
`33
`
`would have to occur at some point prior to carrying
`out all the lookup information and things like that,
`because without having a clear correlation or
`information of the consumer electronics device that
`is to be addressed, in my opinion, the Elements (a)
`through (d) would not make much sense.
`BY MR. TANG:
` Q So if I'm hearing you right, Claim 2, you
`can perform Step (e) before Step (a), right?
` MR. TSUI: Object to form,
`mischaracterizes testimony.
` THE WITNESS: I did not opine on that in
`my declaration. And in order to give you a firm
`answer, I would have to carry out some more
Accessing this document will incur an additional charge of $.
After purchase, you can access this document again without charge.
Accept $ Charge
Still Working On It
This document is taking longer than usual to download. This can happen if we need to contact the court directly to obtain the document and their servers are running slowly.
Give it another minute or two to complete, and then try the refresh button.
A few More Minutes ... Still Working
It can take up to 5 minutes for us to download a document if the court servers are running slowly.
Thank you for your continued patience.
This document could not be displayed.
We could not find this document within its docket. Please go back to the docket page and check the link. If that does not work, go back to the docket and refresh it to pull the newest information.
Your account does not support viewing this document.
You need a Paid Account to view this document. Click here to change your account type.
Your account does not support viewing this document.
Set your membership
status to view this document.
With a Docket Alarm membership, you'll
get a whole lot more, including:
- Up-to-date information for this case.
- Email alerts whenever there is an update.
- Full text search for other cases.
- Get email alerts whenever a new case matches your search.
One Moment Please
The filing “” is large (MB) and is being downloaded.
Please refresh this page in a few minutes to see if the filing has been downloaded. The filing will also be emailed to you when the download completes.
Your document is on its way!
If you do not receive the document in five minutes, contact support at support@docketalarm.com.
Sealed Document
We are unable to display this document, it may be under a court ordered seal.
If you have proper credentials to access the file, you may proceed directly to the court's system using your government issued username and password.
Access Government Site
