`
`Transcript of Dr. Samuel H. Russ
`
`Date: June 19, 2020
`Case: Roku, Inc. et al. -v- Universal Electronics, Inc. et al. (PTAB)
`
`Planet Depos
`Phone: 888.433.3767
`Email:: transcripts@planetdepos.com
`www.planetdepos.com
`
`WORLDWIDE COURT REPORTING & LITIGATION TECHNOLOGY
`
`Universal Electronics Inc., Exhibit 2010
`Roku, Inc. v. Universal Electronics Inc., IPR2019-01612
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`
`
` UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
` ________________________________________
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
` ________________________________________
` ROKU, INC.,
` Petitioner,
` v.
` UNIVERSAL ELECTRONICS, INC.
` Patent Owner.
` _________________________________________
` Case IPR 2019-01614
` U.S. Patent 9,911,325
`
` Virtual videotaped deposition of
` DR. SAMUEL H. RUSS
` Friday, June 19, 2020
` 8:01 a.m. CST
`
`Job No.: 299849
`Pages: 1 - 76
`Reported by: THERESA A. VORKAPIC,
` CSR, RMR, CRR, RPR
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`Transcript of Dr. Samuel H. Russ
`Conducted on June 19, 2020
`
`2
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` Virtual videotaped deposition of
`Dr. Samuel H. Russ, taken pursuant to notice, before
`Theresa A. Vorkapic, a Certified Shorthand Reporter,
`Registered Merit Reporter, Certified Realtime
`Reporter, Registered Professional Reporter and a
`Notary Public in and for the State of Illinois.
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`Roku, Inc. v. Universal Electronics Inc., IPR2019-01612
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`Transcript of Dr. Samuel H. Russ
`Conducted on June 19, 2020
`
`3
`
` A P P E A R A N C E S
`ON BEHALF OF THE PETITIONER:
` LESTIN L. KENTON, ESQUIRE
` MICHAEL Q. LEE, ESQUIRE
` TIMOTHY L. TANG, ESQUIRE
` STERNE KESSLER GOLDSTEIN & FOX, PLLC
` 1100 New York Avenue, NW
` Washington, DC 20005
` 202-772-8758
`
`ON BEHALF OF THE PATENT OWNER:
` NICHOLAS T. TSUI, ESQUIRE
` BENJAMIN S. PLEUNE, ESQUIRE (CHARLOTTE)
` ALSTON & BIRD, LLP
` One Atlantic Center
` 1201 West Peachtree Street
` Suite 4900
` Atlanta, Georgia 30309-3424
` 404-881-4962
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`Transcript of Dr. Samuel H. Russ
`Conducted on June 19, 2020
`
`4
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` A P P E A R A N C E S (Continued)
`
`ON BEHALF OF THE PATENT OWNER:
` BENJAMIN P. GILFORD, ESQUIRE
` GREENBERG TRAURIG, LLP
` One Atlantic Center
` 77 West Wacker Drive
` Suite 3100
` Chicago, Illinois 60601
` 312-364-1658
`
` ALSO PRESENT:
` Juan Mamboyo, Audiovisual Technician,
` Planet Depos
` Armando Forte, Videographer, Planet Depos
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`Transcript of Dr. Samuel H. Russ
`Conducted on June 19, 2020
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`5
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` C O N T E N T S
`EXAMINATION OF DR. SAMUEL H. RUSS PAGE
` Examination By Mr. Tsui 8
`
` E X H I B I T S
` (Attached to transcript.)
`
`RUSS DEPOSITION EXHIBITS PAGE
`
` Exhibit 0002 Petition 70
` Exhibit 1001 U.S. Patent 9,911,325 13
` Exhibit 1003 01614 Declaration 31
` Exhibit 1006 4,426,662, Skerlos 56
` Exhibit 1007 Caris Reference 61
` Exhibit 1008 Dubil Reference 64
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`Transcript of Dr. Samuel H. Russ
`Conducted on June 19, 2020
`
`6
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` P R O C E E D I N G S
` THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Here begins Tape No. 1 in
`the videotaped deposition of Dr. Samuel H. Russ,
`taken in the matter of Roku, Incorporated, et al.
`versus Universal Electronics, et al. Today's date
`June 19, 2020. The time on the video monitor is
`8:02 a.m.
` The videographer for today is Armando Forte
`representing Planet Depos. All parties are
`attending this deposition remotely.
` Will counsel please identify themselves and
`who they represent.
` MR. TANG: Yes, this is Tim Tang with the
`firm Sterne Kessler Goldstein & Fox for the
`petitioner Roku, Inc., also on the line with me are
`my colleagues Lestin Kenton and Mike Lee.
` MR. TSUI: This is Nick Tsui here of Alston
`& Bird on behalf of the patent owner Universal
`Electronics, Incorporated. With me is Ben Pleune
`also of Alston & Bird and Ben Gilford of Greenberg
`Traurig.
` And today's deposition is for the Case No.
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`Transcript of Dr. Samuel H. Russ
`Conducted on June 19, 2020
`
`7
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`IPR 2019-01614, which is related to US 9,911,325,
`and just to be clear on the record, all of the
`parties have agreed to take this deposition
`remotely, that we would all consent to everyone
`being in different locations and that all of the
`transcripts from the past three days can be used for
`each of the IPR proceedings 2019-01612, -01613, and
`-01614.
` Have I got all that right, Tim?
` MR. TANG: Yes, that's right.
` THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Our court reporter for
`today is Theresa Vorkapic representing Planet Depos.
`We will now swear in the witness and proceed.
` THE REPORTER: Will counsel please stipulate
`that in lieu of formally swearing in the witness,
`the reporter will instead ask the witness to
`acknowledge that their testimony will be true under
`the penalties of perjury, that counsel will not
`object to the admissibility of the transcript based
`on proceeding in this way, and that the witness has
`verified that he is, in fact, Dr. Samuel H. Russ.
` MR. TANG: Yes.
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`Transcript of Dr. Samuel H. Russ
`Conducted on June 19, 2020
`
`8
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` MR. TSUI: Agreed.
` THE REPORTER: Would you raise your right
`hand, please.
` (The witness was duly sworn.)
` DR. SAMUEL H. RUSS,
`called as a witness herein, having been first duly
`sworn, was examined and testified as follows:
` EXAMINATION
`BY MR. TSUI:
` Q Good morning, Dr. Russ. Welcome back to day
`three of your deposition.
` A Good morning.
` Q This is the last of this set, which I
`believe you won't have to see me tomorrow.
` A That's right.
` Q I'm sure we're all very excited about that.
` And today how is your video audio
`connection? Can you hear me all right?
` A Yes, I can hear you fine.
` Q Okay. Just like yesterday, Dr. Russ, this
`is, again, a new transcript rather than a
`continuation of the last couple of days, so would
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`Transcript of Dr. Samuel H. Russ
`Conducted on June 19, 2020
`
`9
`
`you please state your full name and address for the
`record again?
` A Yes, my name is Samuel Hardie Russ, that's
`H-a-r-d-i-e, and my address is
`
` Q Thank you. And just like the last couple of
`days, you understand that you are now under oath to
`answer all of today's questions truthfully and to
`the best of your ability?
` A Yes.
` Q And is there any reason you wouldn't be able
`to do that today?
` A Not that I'm aware of.
` Q As always, let's both try to do our best to
`not talk at the same time and make sure that we
`respond to questions verbally without head shakes or
`uh-huhs, okay?
` A Okay, yes.
` Q And Dr. Russ, you understand that today
`we're all here to talk about the IPR of US Patent
`No. 9,911,325, correct?
` A Yes.
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`Transcript of Dr. Samuel H. Russ
`Conducted on June 19, 2020
`
`10
`
` Q If I refer to this patent simply as the '325
`patent, we'll all understand that's what we're
`talking about, right?
` A Yes.
` Q Similar to the last two days, you understand
`that you submitted two declarations in support of
`the '325 patent IPR, correct?
` A Yes.
` Q And just like we discussed yesterday, you
`had an original declaration and then a supplemental
`declaration where you talked about a number of
`references being a true and correct copy of what's
`available on the internet, right?
` A Right, yes.
` Q And, again, similar to yesterday, I'm hoping
`to not have to repeat the discussion that we had
`with the '642 patent on Wednesday. Again, to me it
`looks like the supplemental declaration that you
`submitted in the '325 patent IPR talks about all the
`same exhibits and, in fact, makes all the same
`statements about those same exhibits as both the
`'642 and '389 patent IPRs.
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`Transcript of Dr. Samuel H. Russ
`Conducted on June 19, 2020
`
`11
`
` Can you confirm that's correct?
` A I believe that's correct.
` Q We can skip have to redo all of that which
`is nice.
` Dr. Russ, we've talked the past two days
`about the preparation you did for these deposition.
`I just want to make sure on the record we're also
`going to be covering the '325 patent now, okay?
` A Okay.
` Q Did you do any additional representation
`since yesterday for today's deposition?
` A Read the declaration, to be clear, my
`declaration, maybe looked at the decision institute,
`maybe looked at the patent, spent maybe an hour
`doing that and did not consult any other references.
` Q And for today's deposition, are there any
`facts or analysis that your lawyers told you to
`assume or to rely on?
` A Well, there's a legal -- I call it a legal
`boilerplate. It's the legal standard section of my
`report that was drafted by counsel. So I assume
`that they are the legal standards that I'm applying
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`Transcript of Dr. Samuel H. Russ
`Conducted on June 19, 2020
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`12
`
`here, and other than that, no.
` Q And at any time have you spoken to anyone
`besides the petitioner's attorneys about this IPR or
`the '325 patent?
` A No.
` Q And at any time have you spoken to anyone at
`Roku about this IPR or the '325 patent?
` A No.
` Q Are you aware that there is litigation in
`the District Court on and the ITC that is related to
`the '325 patent and this IPR?
` A Yes, I am.
` Q Have you discussed any of that related
`litigation with anyone at any time?
` A I referred to the infringement contentions
`in my analysis for this matter, and that's the
`extent of it; in other words, it was me looking at
`the infringement contentions. I did not consult
`with anyone other than counsel about it.
` Q And those are just the infringement
`contentions that are in the petition or listed as
`exhibits to this IPR; is that correct?
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`Conducted on June 19, 2020
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`13
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` A That's correct.
` Q And is there anything else you did to
`prepare for today's deposition that we haven't
`talked about?
` A I don't think so. Like I said, I reviewed
`the references and the patent briefly and before the
`three-day start, I spoke with counsel, and that's
`what I did to get ready.
` Q Dr. Russ, I'm going to have brought up on
`the screen here what is marked as Exhibit 1001.
` (A certain document was marked Russ
` Deposition Exhibit 1001 for
` identification, as of 06/19/2020.)
`BY MR. TSUI:
` Q And if you're following along in your box,
`its how it's labeled it's got the prefix 30614 for
`all of today's exhibits.
` Dr. Russ, do you recognize this Exhibit 1001
`as the '325 patent that's at issue in this IPR?
` A Yes, I do.
` Q Did you review this patent in preparation
`for your deposition today?
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`Transcript of Dr. Samuel H. Russ
`Conducted on June 19, 2020
`
`14
`
` A Yes.
` Q Great. Let's go to Column 10. If we go
`down to the bottom of Column 10, there's a Claim 1
`at the bottom there; do you see that, Dr. Russ?
` A Yes, I see that.
` Q And if you go to Line 47 do you see where it
`says: "A processing device coupled to the receiver
`and the transmitter"?
` A Yes.
` Q And below that do you see where it says: "A
`memory storing instructions executable by the
`processing device."
` Do you see that?
` A I see that.
` Q Is it your understanding that the claim
`requires that there be one single processing device
`that is going to execute instructions on the memory?
` A I'm sorry. I apologize for the
`interruption, Counsel. Once again, I forgot to
`silence my phone. With apologies to the court and
`everybody, please repeat the question.
` Q That's all right. Is Lestin trying to call
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`Transcript of Dr. Samuel H. Russ
`Conducted on June 19, 2020
`
`15
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`you again?
` A No.
` Q The question was is it your understanding
`that the claim requires that there is one single
`processing device that is going to execute the
`instructions on the memory?
` A Well, it says a processing device which my
`understanding of just claims in the abstract means
`one or more processing devices, and it's coupled to
`the receiver and transmitter and then there's memory
`that stores instructions that the processor can use.
`That seems to be the arrangement here in the claims.
` Q And if it's more than one processing device,
`is it your understanding that they would all have to
`be coupled to the receiver and the transmitter?
` A I don't know that I've really considered
`that. Offhand, I would say, you know, in that
`situation, maybe -- I don't know. I'd have to see a
`specific example to have an opinion on that. In
`other words, a specific example of art or a specific
`example of a device accused of infringement.
` Q So fair enough to say that you don't have an
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`Transcript of Dr. Samuel H. Russ
`Conducted on June 19, 2020
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`16
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`opinion on the question I've just asked one way or
`the other, correct?
` A I don't have an opinion on the claim
`language in the abstract, but I feel I could apply
`that claim language in an actual example in the
`prior art.
` Q Are aware of any prior art where you have
`applied that language of the claim?
` A Yes, as seen in my report.
` Q Well, I guess I'm talking specifically about
`the question I've asked about if you have more than
`one processing device, do they all have to be
`coupled to the receiver and the transmitter, have
`you applied that understanding in any way to any of
`the prior art in this IPR?
` A Well, I think an example would be Rye, and I
`think -- I don't have my declaration in front of me,
`but I think in the Rye embodiment, for example, it
`calls out two different processors. So we have to
`look at the Rye example to show how I applied this
`claim language a processing device coupled with a
`receiver and transmitter, and I don't have my
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`Transcript of Dr. Samuel H. Russ
`Conducted on June 19, 2020
`
`17
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`declaration in front of me, but I imagine I
`explained it in there.
` Q We'll get to that. I was just trying to
`understand what your understanding of the claim
`language itself is. And just to be clear, it sounds
`like from a pure claim language in the context of
`the patent itself, is it correct that you have not
`considered whether multiple processing devices need
`to be all coupled to the receiver and the
`transmitter?
` MR. TANG: Objection. Form.
`BY THE WITNESS:
` A I think the claim language speaks for itself
`and I don't have an opinion on the claim language in
`the abstract, but I do have opinions on this with
`regard to specific pieces of prior art, and that's
`why I'm not expressing an opinion on the claim
`language in general, you know, in effect carrying
`that claim construction, rather I think this claim
`language can be applied to the art and the way that
`I do so is outlined in my report.
`BY MR. TSUI:
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`Transcript of Dr. Samuel H. Russ
`Conducted on June 19, 2020
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`18
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` Q So I guess what I'm trying to understand is
`do you believe that this claim requires multiple
`processing devices if they exist to be coupled to
`the receiver and the transmitter or you don't have
`an opinion on that one way or the other?
` MR. TANG: Objection. Form.
`BY THE WITNESS:
` A I think it depends on your identification of
`a processing device, which is why, again, it really
`is not -- is something that needs to be dealt with
`on case-by-case basis. There's not a general answer
`to that just looking at the claim language.
`BY MR. TSUI:
` Q Okay. So looking at the claim language
`alone, you're not sure what it actually means; is
`that what you're saying?
` A No, I'm saying there's not a general answer
`you can apply just looking at the claim language in
`the abstract. You have to look at it on a
`case-by-case basis, like a specific piece of prior
`art, for example, in order to resolve -- in order to
`understand how to apply this claim language, you
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`Transcript of Dr. Samuel H. Russ
`Conducted on June 19, 2020
`
`19
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`have to see what the system is that you're applying
`the claim language to.
` Q What is your understanding of what a
`processing device is?
` A It's a pretty broad term in the art and it's
`a device that processes, which could be a processor,
`that's the thing a processing device, for example,
`could be a multi-core Core i5, that's more in a
`laptop, so the processing device could have multiple
`processors inside it. A microcontroller can be a
`processing device and it could have multiple
`peripheral devices in it. Processing device is a
`broad term that's why, again, the best way to handle
`that term, a term that's defined that broadly, is to
`see how it applies to the specifics rather than in
`the abstract.
` Q If I had a processing device that was --
`well, we'll wait until we -- I get to that later.
` Looking at the next line down 49 where it
`says: "A memory storing instructions," is it your
`understanding that the claim requires a single
`memory that stores instructions for the processing
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`Transcript of Dr. Samuel H. Russ
`Conducted on June 19, 2020
`
`20
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`device to execute the functions of this claim?
` A First off, again, a memory usually means one
`or more memories; secondly, again, it depends on how
`you line up the actual art. You know, it's common
`to refer to multiple memory chips as a memory. You
`know, a typical processor has address space and in
`that address space there could be multiple memory
`chips made up of different types of memory, and, you
`know, so a memory can be applied broadly and that's
`why you would have to look at the specific art to
`see, you know. I note that my recollection is that
`Rye, for example, has multiple memories but that
`could be taken collectively as a memory because,
`again, that's kind of the language of the art.
` Q And looking at that Column 10, Line 49
`again, you see where it says: "A memory storing
`instructions executable by the processing device,
`the instructions causing the processing device to"
`and then it says "generate a key code" at Line 52
`and then at Line 57 "format the key code for
`transmission" and then Line 59 "transmit the
`formatted key for transmission."
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`Transcript of Dr. Samuel H. Russ
`Conducted on June 19, 2020
`
`21
`
` Do you see some of that block that I'm
`looking at?
` A Sure.
` Q You agree that there are three things the
`claim lists, generate a key code, format a key code
`and transmit the formatted key code?
` A Let me ask the operator if you don't mind
`scroll down and let me see the rest of Claim 1 just
`for a second.
` Okay, yes. There are these three steps,
`scroll back up please, thank you. Right, there is
`to generate, format and transmit steps and then
`there's a wherein at the bottom that sort of
`modifies everything, but the three steps are
`generate, format and transmit, yes.
` Q So would you agree that the claim requires a
`processing device to execute instructions to
`generate a key code, format a key code and transmit
`the formatted key code?
` A Yes. That's what the claim requires.
` Q Would you agree that the claim requires a
`memory storing instructions to generate a key code,
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`Transcript of Dr. Samuel H. Russ
`Conducted on June 19, 2020
`
`22
`
`format a key code and transmit the formatted key
`code?
` A Yes. That's required by the claim.
` Q And if we look to Line 54, after the comma,
`do you see where it says: "The key stroke indicator
`having data that indicates an input he will element
`of the third device that has been activated."
` A I see that.
` Q Do you understand that to mean there has to
`be some data or information transmitted inside the
`key stroke indicator that the remote control
`transmits that actually indicates which specific
`button was pressed on the remote control?
` MR. TANG: Objection. Form.
`BY THE WITNESS:
` A Let's see. Inside the language of the
`claim, the key stroke indicator has data. The data
`indicates that an input element has been activated
`and the input element is on the claim's third device
`which my recollection is is a remote control, and by
`that I mean a handheld -- in the common embodiment a
`handheld remote control like the dumb remote of Rye,
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`Transcript of Dr. Samuel H. Russ
`Conducted on June 19, 2020
`
`23
`
`and, yeah, it indicates that an input like a button
`has been pressed, there's data that indicates a
`button has been pressed and there's data in the key
`stroke indicator that says a button has been
`pressed.
` Working backwards, that data is then used to
`generate a key code. So there's at least enough
`information in the key stroke indicator that the
`first device can use to generate a key code. Again,
`that's the claim language.
` Q Right. And then the claim language we were
`looking at do you agree there's also data that
`indicates an input element of the third device that
`has been activated?
` A Right. To be clear, it indicates that an
`input element has been activated.
` Q Correct. Thank you.
` A Okay.
` Q If we look down at Line 61, do you see where
`it says: "Wherein the generated key code comprises
`a one of a plurality of key code data stored in a
`codeset wherein the one of the plurality of key code
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`Transcript of Dr. Samuel H. Russ
`Conducted on June 19, 2020
`
`24
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`data is selected from the code set of a function of
`the key stroke indicator received from the third
`device."
` Do you see that?
` A Yes.
` Q Do you agree that the claim here is saying
`that a single key code must be selected in response
`to the key stroke indicator?
` A Let's see, to the generate key code is one
`key code datum to use the right -- one key code
`datum. That datum is stored in the codeset of data.
`The one key code is selected from the codeset,
`right, as a function of the key stroke indicator.
`So the key stroke indicator kicks off a chain of
`events that results in the first device selecting --
`generating, excuse me, generating a key code.
` Q Right. My question -- I'm sorry, continue.
` A Yeah, and the one key code that it generates
`is a function of that key stroke indicator.
` Q So then would you agree that selecting an
`entire codeset in response to the key stroke
`indicator would not satisfy this claim saying
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`Transcript of Dr. Samuel H. Russ
`Conducted on June 19, 2020
`
`25
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`wherein one of the plurality of key code data is
`selected from the codeset?
` MR. TANG: Objection. Form.
`BY THE WITNESS:
` A I think the claim language says to generate
`a key code using a key stroke indicator, and then
`says that the generated key code is one of a
`plurality of key code data. So as long as there's
`ultimately the selection of one key code selected
`from a codeset, then that's what the claim seems to
`require.
`BY MR. TSUI:
` Q Right. So if --
` A I'm sorry, Counselor, let me back up for a
`second.
` It says to generate a key code backup in the
`generate step, and my understanding is normally in
`patent terms that means generate one or more key
`codes or generate at least one key code. Now, that
`at least one key code is further constrained there
`in the wherein step.
` Q Right, so focusing just on that further
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`Transcript of Dr. Samuel H. Russ
`Conducted on June 19, 2020
`
`26
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`constraint where it says: "Wherein the one of the
`plurality of key code data is selected from the
`codeset", my question is would you agree that if
`there's only a selection or a transmission of an
`entire codeset, then that by itself does not satisfy
`wherein one of a plurality of key code data is
`selected from the codeset as a function of the key
`stroke indicator?
` MR. TANG: Objection to form.
`BY THE WITNESS:
` A I think
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