`
`Transcript of Dr. Samuel H. Russ
`
`Date: June 18, 2020
`Case: Roku, Inc. et al. -v- Universal Electronics, Inc. et al. (PTAB)
`
`Planet Depos
`Phone: 888.433.3767
`Email:: transcripts@planetdepos.com
`www.planetdepos.com
`
`WORLDWIDE COURT REPORTING & LITIGATION TECHNOLOGY
`
`Universal Electronics Inc., Exhibit 2009
`Roku, Inc. v. Universal Electronics Inc., IPR2019-01612
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` UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
` ________________________________________
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
` ________________________________________
` ROKU, INC.,
` Petitioner,
` v.
` UNIVERSAL ELECTRONICS, INC.
` Patent Owner.
` _________________________________________
` Case IPR 2019-01613
` U.S. Patent 8,004,389
`
` Virtual videotaped deposition of
` DR. SAMUEL H. RUSS
` Thursday, June 18, 2020
` 8:01 a.m. CST
`
`Job No.: 299848
`Pages: 1 - 170
`Reported by: THERESA A. VORKAPIC,
` CSR, RMR, CRR, RPR
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`Transcript of Dr. Samuel H. Russ
`Conducted on June 18, 2020
`
`2
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` Virtual videotaped deposition of
`Dr. Samuel H. Russ, taken pursuant to notice, before
`Theresa A. Vorkapic, a Certified Shorthand Reporter,
`Registered Merit Reporter, Certified Realtime
`Reporter, Registered Professional Reporter and a
`Notary Public in and for the State of Illinois.
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`Transcript of Dr. Samuel H. Russ
`Conducted on June 18, 2020
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`3
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` A P P E A R A N C E S
`ON BEHALF OF THE PETITIONER:
` LESTIN L. KENTON, ESQUIRE
` MICHAEL Q. LEE, ESQUIRE
` TIMOTHY L. TANG, ESQUIRE
` STERNE KESSLER GOLDSTEIN & FOX, PLLC
` 1100 New York Avenue, NW
` Washington, DC 20005
` 202-772-8758
`ON BEHALF OF THE PATENT OWNER:
` NICHOLAS T. TSUI, ESQUIRE
` BENJAMIN S. PLEUNE, ESQUIRE (CHARLOTTE)
` ALSTON & BIRD, LLP
` One Atlantic Center
` 1201 West Peachtree Street
` Suite 4900
` Atlanta, Georgia 30309-3424
` 404-881-4962
`ALSO PRESENT:
` Juan Mamboyo, Audiovisual Technician,
` Planet Depos
` Armando Forte, Videographer, Planet Depos
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`Transcript of Dr. Samuel H. Russ
`Conducted on June 18, 2020
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`4
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` C O N T E N T S
`EXAMINATION OF DR. SAMUEL H. RUSS PAGE
` Examination By Mr. Tsui 7
` Examination By Mr. Kenton 166
`
` E X H I B I T S
` (Attached to transcript.)
`
`RUSS DEPOSITION EXHIBITS PAGE
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` Exhibit 1001 US Patent 8,004,389 16
` Exhibit 1003 Declaration 24
` Exhibit 1005 Mishra, 2001/0005197 91
` Exhibit 1008 Caris 127
` Exhibit 1010 Civil Minutes 38
` Exhibit 1011 US Patent No. 6,909,378 116
` Exhibit 1012 US Patent No. 5,329,370 142
` Exhibit 1013 US Patent No. 6,774,813 61
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`Transcript of Dr. Samuel H. Russ
`Conducted on June 18, 2020
`
`5
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` P R O C E E D I N G S
` THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Here begins Tape No. 1 in
`the videotaped deposition of Dr. Samuel H. Russ,
`taken in the matter of Roku, Incorporated, et al.
`versus Universal Electronics, et al. Today's date
`June 18, 2020. The time on the video monitor is
`8:03 a.m.
` The videographer for today is Armando Forte
`representing Planet Depos. All parties are
`attending this deposition remotely.
` Will counsel please identify themselves and
`who they represent.
` MR. KENTON: Hi. Yes, this is Lestin Kenton
`from the firm Sterne Kessler Goldstein & Fox
`representing petitioner Roku Incorporated, and I
`also on the line with me my colleague Tim Tang.
` MR. TSUI: This is Nick Tsui from Alston &
`Bird on behalf of the patent owner Universal
`Electronics, Incorporated and with me on the line is
`Ben Pleune also of Alston & Bird.
` MR. LEE: This is Mike Lee -- I'm sorry. Go
`ahead.
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`Transcript of Dr. Samuel H. Russ
`Conducted on June 18, 2020
`
`6
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` MR. TSUI: I'm sorry. And I was just going
`to say for the record that today's deposition is
`related to IPR 2019-01613, which is US Patent
`Number 8,004,389.
` MR. LEE: This is Mike Lee also from Sterne
`Kessler Goldstein & Fox also representing petitioner
`Roku.
` THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Our court reporter is
`Theresa Vorkapic representing Planet Depos. We will
`now attest or swear the witness.
` THE REPORTER: Will counsel please stipulate
`that in lieu of formally swearing in the witness,
`the reporter will instead ask the witness to
`acknowledge that their testimony will be true under
`the penalties of perjury, that counsel will not
`object to the admissibility of the transcript based
`on proceeding in this way, and that the witness has
`verified that he is, in fact, Dr. Samuel H. Russ.
` MR. KENTON: Agreed.
` MR. TSUI: Agreed.
` THE REPORTER: Would you raise your right
`hand, please.
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`08:05:44
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`Transcript of Dr. Samuel H. Russ
`Conducted on June 18, 2020
`
` (The witness was duly sworn.)
` THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Go ahead, Mr. Tsui.
` DR. SAMUEL H. RUSS,
`called as a witness herein, having been first duly
`sworn, was examined and testified as follows:
` EXAMINATION
`BY MR. TSUI:
` Q Good morning, Dr. Russ. Welcome back to day
`two.
` A Good morning.
` Q It sounds like your audiovisual connection
`is good today.
` Can you hear me all right?
` A Yes.
` Q Dr. Russ, this is technically a new
`transcript for a new IPR proceeding rather than just
`a continuation of yesterday, and so if you would
`indulge me and state your full name and address for
`the record, please.
` A Sure. My name is Samuel Hardie Russ,
`H-a-r-d-i-e, and I reside at
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`Transcript of Dr. Samuel H. Russ
`Conducted on June 18, 2020
`
`8
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` Q Thank you. Just like yesterday, and again
`the agreement on the record may have already
`established this, but we've all agreed and consented
`that each of the counsel and witness and court
`reporter will all be in different locations and
`everybody has agreed that that's not going to be
`objectionable and also that this transcript along
`with the other transcripts will all be usable in any
`of the IPR proceedings, is that right, that way I
`don't have to ask you all the same fact questions I
`asked you yesterday about your background and things
`like that.
` A Okay, good.
` Q I know we went through the ground rules
`yesterday and we did it all and everything seemed to
`work fine, but just as a quick refresher, you
`understand that you are now under oath to answer all
`of today's questions truthfully and to the best of
`your ability; is that clear?
` A Yes.
` Q Is there any reason today you wouldn't be
`able to do that?
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`Transcript of Dr. Samuel H. Russ
`Conducted on June 18, 2020
`
`9
`
` A No.
` Q And just like yesterday, we had the court
`reporter who is not physically here with us but is
`trying to write down everything we say over the Zoom
`call. So please make sure that you respond
`verbally, no head shakes or uh-huhs to questions,
`okay?
` A Yes. That's okay.
` Q I think we both did a good job of this
`yesterday too, so we'll keep on trying to do our
`best to not talk over each other and wait for each
`other to finish speaking before we go next, okay?
` A Yes.
` Q Dr. Russ, you understand that we are here
`today to talk about the IPR of US Patent No.
`8,004,389, correct?
` A Correct.
` Q And if I just refer to this patent simply as
`the '389 patent, you'll understand what I'm
`referring to, the number I just mentioned?
` A Yes.
` Q You understand that in this proceeding, you
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`Transcript of Dr. Samuel H. Russ
`Conducted on June 18, 2020
`
`10
`
`submitted two declarations in support of the '389
`patent IPR, correct?
` A Yes.
` Q And just like we discussed yesterday, you
`had an original declaration and then later you had a
`supplemental declaration where you talked about a
`number of references being a true and correct copy
`of what's available on the internet.
` Does that sound right?
` A Yes.
` Q And yesterday we went through your
`supplemental declaration in the 642 case in quite a
`bit of detail. I'm hoping we can shortcut that
`today if possible.
` A Okay.
` Q To me it looks like the supplemental
`declaration that you submitted in this '389 patent
`IPR talks about all the same exhibits and in fact
`makes all the same statements about those same
`exhibits as you did in the 642 patent supplemental
`declaration.
` Can you confirm that that's correct?
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`Transcript of Dr. Samuel H. Russ
`Conducted on June 18, 2020
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`11
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` A My recollection is that's correct but
`certainly to the extent there is the same reference
`in the '389 declaration as there was in the '642
`declaration, I would say the same things about it.
` Q And I can represent to you by my finding
`it's the same references. There aren't any new ones
`to ask about so we can save ourselves a lot of
`trouble by not having to go through all that again.
` We talked yesterday about the preparation
`that you did in advance of the deposition, and just
`to be clear, for the record, now we're also covering
`the '389 patent. So I'm going to ask you some of
`the same questions as yesterday, but I just want to
`be clear that the scope now includes the '389
`patent, okay?
` A Right.
` Q Did you do any additional preparations since
`yesterday for today's deposition?
` A I reviewed the '389 patent, I reviewed my
`declaration, you know, reviewed maybe some of the
`references briefly.
` Q Were there any facts or analyses that your
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`Transcript of Dr. Samuel H. Russ
`Conducted on June 18, 2020
`
`12
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`lawyers told you to assume or rely on for today?
` A No, generally speaking no. I mean, as we
`talked about before, there's I call it the legal
`boilerplate section in my report, for example that
`was drafted by counsel, but other than that, you
`know, any assumptions or facts I make --
` THE REPORTER: I'm sorry. I'm losing your
`audio.
` THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Off the record 8:11.
` (Discussion was had off the record.)
` THE VIDEOGRAPHER: We're back on, 8:15. Go
`ahead.
`BY MR. TSUI:
` Q Dr. Russ, I think we -- the end of your
`answer got cut off a little bit and there were some
`technical difficulties, so I'll just go ahead and
`ask the question again.
` A Sure.
` Q Were there any facts or analysis that your
`lawyers told you to assume or to rely on for today's
`deposition?
` A First there's the legal boilerplate section
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`Transcript of Dr. Samuel H. Russ
`Conducted on June 18, 2020
`
`13
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`that I think I mentioned yesterday that was drafted
`by counsel that represents the legal principles that
`I used as the basis of my report.
` Other than that, if there are any facts or
`analyses, I cite them in the body of my report and
`performed them myself.
` Q And specifically for today's deposition, are
`there any facts or analyses that counsel told you to
`rely on or to assume for today?
` A No, other than, again, the legal
`boilerplate.
` Q And at any time have you spoken to anyone
`besides the petitioner's attorneys about this IPR or
`the '389 patent?
` A No.
` Q And at any time have you spoken to anyone at
`Roku about this IPR or the '389 patent?
` A No.
` Q And in preparing for today's deposition, did
`you review any documents that we didn't discuss
`yesterday or that you didn't mention just a moment
`ago?
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`Transcript of Dr. Samuel H. Russ
`Conducted on June 18, 2020
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`14
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` A No. The documents I reviewed are cited in
`the report.
` Q Just for clarity, I was trying to get at did
`you get online and review any materials?
` A Oh, no.
` Q Are you aware that there is litigation in
`the District Court that is related to the '389
`patent that is in this IPR?
` A Yes.
` Q And have you discussed that related
`litigation with anyone at any time?
` A Well, I believe I indicated yesterday I
`reviewed the infringement contentions with the
`counsel that I've been working with, but that's the
`extent of the connection.
` Q And you haven't -- have you seen at any time
`or reviewed any documents from any related
`litigation regarding the '389 patent?
` A Other than possibly the infringement
`contentions, no.
` Q When you say the infringement contentions,
`are you referring to just the ones that are exhibits
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`Transcript of Dr. Samuel H. Russ
`Conducted on June 18, 2020
`
`15
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`in this IPR or do you mean all of them?
` A The ones that are exhibits in this IPR.
` Q There is one exhibit in this that IPR that
`is an infringement contention that was submitted
`after the date of any of your reports.
` Did you review that particular infringement
`contention? It is an exhibit, but it was after you
`submitted your reports.
` A The only infringement contentions I recall
`reviewing were the ones that would have been before
`I wrote my report.
` Q Anything else you did to prepare for today's
`deposition that we haven't discussed?
` A No. As I said yesterday, I met with
`counsel, of course, prior to these depositions, but
`other than that, no.
` Q And in addition to the preparation that you
`did prior to yesterday, how much time in total do
`you think you spent preparing for this deposition
`just yesterday actually?
` A A few hours, maybe an hour. Something on
`the order of that.
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`Roku, Inc. v. Universal Electronics Inc., IPR2019-01612
`
`
`
`08:19:33
`08:19:38
`08:19:41
`08:19:41
`08:19:42
`08:19:48
`08:19:54
`08:20:01
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`08:20:24
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`08:20:50
`08:20:54
`08:20:58
`08:21:04
`
`Transcript of Dr. Samuel H. Russ
`Conducted on June 18, 2020
`
`16
`
` Q So I didn't tire you out enough yesterday is
`what you're telling me. I'll try and do better
`today.
` A Okay.
` Q So let's go ahead and get the first exhibit,
`1001, and so this will be stored or the file name
`should be 01613, and then Exhibit 1001.
` (A certain document was marked Russ
` Deposition Exhibit 1001 for
` identification, as of 06/18/2020.)
`BY MR. TSUI:
` Q Dr. Russ, do you recognize this exhibit as
`the '389 patent that's at issue in this IPR?
` A Yes.
` Q Did you review this patent in preparation
`for your deposition today?
` A Yes.
` Q Let's go to Column 8 and just stop at the
`top. That's perfect. So Column 8, Line 1 says:
`"In another example, the codeset usable to
`communicate with VCR 13 is identified the key code
`generator device 12 using autoscan functionality."
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`Roku, Inc. v. Universal Electronics Inc., IPR2019-01612
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`08:21:08
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`Transcript of Dr. Samuel H. Russ
`Conducted on June 18, 2020
`
`17
`
` Do you see that?
` A Yes.
` Q Have you read this specific section of the
`'389 patent?
` A Yes.
` Q Would you agree that this Column 8 that was
`just introduced here of the '389 patent describes
`what the inventor means about when he says autoscan
`functionality?
` MR. KENTON: Objection to form.
`BY THE WITNESS:
` A Yes. This is one of the embodiments of the
`autoscan functionality in the '389 patent.
`BY MR. TSUI:
` Q In the next sentence which is Line 5, it
`says: "In that case, the user may be prompted by
`successive screens of onscreen display 15 to push
`the power-on key on remote control device 11
`multiple times. Each time the power-on key is
`pressed, key stroke indicator signal 16 communicates
`this to key code generator device 12."
` Do you see that?
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`Roku, Inc. v. Universal Electronics Inc., IPR2019-01612
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`08:22:14
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`Transcript of Dr. Samuel H. Russ
`Conducted on June 18, 2020
`
`18
`
` A Yes.
` Q So this is saying that each time the remote
`control button is pressed, the remote control will
`send a key stroke indicator signal to the key code
`generator device, right?
` A Right.
` Q And then the next sentence which is now at
`Line 9, it says: "Key code generator 12 in turn
`generates and transmits a key code signal containing
`a power-on key code using a different codeset."
` Do you see that?
` A Yes.
` Q Okay. So during this autoscan
`functionality, each time the user presses the key on
`the remote control, the key code generator device
`generates a key code from a different codeset,
`right?
` A Yes. That's what the disclosure there says,
`yes.
` Q And would you agree that what's happening
`here is that each time the consumer appliance
`doesn't perform the desired operation, the key code
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`Roku, Inc. v. Universal Electronics Inc., IPR2019-01612
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`08:23:32
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`08:23:35
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`Transcript of Dr. Samuel H. Russ
`Conducted on June 18, 2020
`
`19
`
`generator sends the next key code from a different
`codeset for the remote control to try; is that
`right?
` A Understanding that the subscriber is sort of
`in the loop here, that's right. He keeps trying a
`power-on key from a different codeset until the
`device turns on.
` Q And would you agree that that's a different
`process than if the key code generator just sent all
`the codes from every different codeset to the remote
`control all at one time, and then let the user and
`the remote control try them all from there without
`the key code generator being in the loop on each
`press?
` MR. KENTON: Objection. Form.
`BY THE WITNESS:
` A I don't understand your hypothetical.
`BY MR. TSUI:
` Q Yes. Let me try to break it up a little
`bit.
` Would you agree that what we just talked
`about was each time the user presses a key, the key
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`Roku, Inc. v. Universal Electronics Inc., IPR2019-01612
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`Transcript of Dr. Samuel H. Russ
`Conducted on June 18, 2020
`
`20
`
`code generator generates a key code and then sends
`it back to the remote control to the consumer
`appliance, would you agree to that?
` MR. KENTON: Objection. Form.
`BY MR. TSUI:
` Q Dr. Russ, I don't think I --
` A I'm sorry. I'm reading the reference.
`Yeah, I apologize.
` Let's see. Each time the power-on key is
`pressed, the key stroke indicator signal
`communicates with the key code generator device.
`The key code generator device generates and
`transmits a key code signal containing the power-on
`key code using a different codeset. Oh, each key
`code signal is relied through remote control device
`11.
` So in this particular embodiment in Column
`8, the key code signal goes back to the remote
`control device and then to the consumer electronic
`device in this particular embodiment here in
`Column 8.
` Q Right. So I guess what I'm getting at is
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`08:25:55
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`Transcript of Dr. Samuel H. Russ
`Conducted on June 18, 2020
`
`21
`
`would you agree that what the '389 patent is
`describing is that on each button press the key code
`generator is in the loop?
` MR. KENTON: Objection. Form.
`BY THE WITNESS:
` A In this case in Column 8, the key code
`generator device is transmitting a different key
`code every time, yes.
`BY MR. TSUI:
` Q Are you aware of any other embodiments in
`the '389 patent where that doesn't happen for
`autoscan functionality?
` A Well, there are different embodiments in the
`'389 patent, not necessarily -- I mean, there's
`irrelevant autoscan functionality having to do with
`the power cord, but I think we're overlooking that,
`but there are other embodiments in the '389 patent,
`but not necessarily related to autoscan, that
`suggest there may be other ways inside the scope of
`the '389 disclosure to carry out this process. But
`in this particular embodiment, the key code
`generator device is involved.
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`Roku, Inc. v. Universal Electronics Inc., IPR2019-01612
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`08:26:47
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`08:27:07
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`08:28:03
`
`Transcript of Dr. Samuel H. Russ
`Conducted on June 18, 2020
`
`22
`
` Q And so the process that we just discussed
`now I want to talk about another hypothetical
`process.
` If instead of generating a key code with
`each button press, if the key code generator sent
`all the codes from every different codeset for the
`power-on key all at one time to the remote control
`so that the remote control can just directly try
`those codes without having to communicate with the
`key code generator device for each press, would you
`agree that's a different process than what the '389
`patent described in Column 8 that we discussed?
` MR. KENTON: Objection. Form, scope.
`BY THE WITNESS:
` A I mean, I agree that it would be different.
`BY MR. TSUI:
` Q That's all. I just wanted to see if you
`thought it was different.
` A It's different than what's disclosed here.
`What's disclosed here is the key code generator
`device is involved, you know, on every single key
`press.
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`Roku, Inc. v. Universal Electronics Inc., IPR2019-01612
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`
`Transcript of Dr. Samuel H. Russ
`Conducted on June 18, 2020
`
`23
`
` Q Then still in Column 8, if we look down near
`the end of Line 24, do you see where it says: "When
`the user stops pressing the power-on key, then the
`key code generator device 12 identifies the codeset
`of the last transmitted key code to be the codeset
`used by the electronic consumer device."
` Do you see that sentence?
` A I do, and that does explain why the column 8
`disclosure is written the way it is, because if you
`sent all the key codes to the remote control, I
`don't know how the key code generator device would
`know which one was the one that worked.
` Q So the last step of the autoscan
`functionality for the '389 patent is that the key
`code generator device identifies the codeset that
`worked, correct?
` A Correct.
` Q Dr. Russ, I want to bring up on the screen
`here Exhibit 1003, which is going to be your
`original declaration, your first declaration in this
`IPR.
` (A certain document was marked Russ
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`Transcript of Dr. Samuel H. Russ
`Conducted on June 18, 2020
`
`24
`
` Deposition Exhibit 1003 for
` identification, as of 06/18/2020.)
`BY THE WITNESS:
` A Okay.
`BY MR. TSUI:
` Q Dr. Russ, do you recognize this Exhibit 1003
`as your first declaration for the '389 patent at
`issue in this IPR?
` A Yes.
` Q And did you write this entire declaration by
`yourself other than the legal section talked about
`yesterday?
` A My recollection is that I did.
` Q So sitting here today other than the legal
`section, there are no other sections that you can
`recall that you did not personally write?
` A I believe that's correct.
` Q Are all of your opinions about this
`proceeding in this declaration or your other
`supplemental declaration?
` A Yes.
` Q If we turn to Page 4, the real Page 4, not
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`Transcript of Dr. Samuel H. Russ
`Conducted on June 18, 2020
`
`25
`
`the -- yes, similar to yesterday in your other
`report, Dr. Russ, you see that you have a Section 3
`called Materials Considered?
` A Yes.
` Q And is this a complete list of the documents
`that you considered or relied upon for your opinion
`other than the infringement opinions that we already
`discussed?
` A I believe that it is, and I note that in
`this particular case the infringement contentions
`are listed at the bottom of this table.
` Q So if there's anything that's not in this
`materials considered list or otherwise discussed in
`your declaration, you would agree that means you
`didn't review it or consider it for your opinions
`here?
` A Right. It means I did not -- certainly
`means I did not rely on it.
` Q Let's turn to Page 8.
` If maybe scroll a little bit further down so
`we can see that whole paragraph.
` If we're looking at Page 8 in your
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`Transcript of Dr. Samuel H. Russ
`Conducted on June 18, 2020
`
`26
`
`declaration at Paragraph 22, you can see that you
`start the section where you're talking about a
`number of claim terms in the claim construction,
`right?
` A Right.
` Q And we talked about a number of these
`yesterday so I'm going to try to shortcut our way
`through these as well, but I do want to review them
`briefly.
` Here in Paragraph 22, you acknowledge that
`the parties have agreed that key code means a code
`corresponding to a function of an electronic device
`optionally including timing information.
` Do you see that?
` A Yes.
` Q You recall we talked about what this term
`meant yesterday, correct?
` A Yes.
` Q And do you agree that your opinions about
`this term in
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