· · · UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`
`· · · BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
`FACEBOOK, INC., INSTRAGRAM,· · )
`LLC, and WHATSAPP INC.,· · · · )
`· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·)
`· · · · · · · · ·Petitioners,· )
`vs.· · · · · · · · · · · · · · )CASE:· PRI2019-00925
`· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·)
`BLACKBERRY LIMITED,· · · · · · )
`· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·)
`· · · · · · · · ·Patent Owner. )
`· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·)
`_______________________________)
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`· · · · · · · · · · DEPOSITION OF
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`· · · · · · · SANDEEP CHATTERJEE, Ph.D.
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`· · · · · · · REDWOOD CITY, CALIFORNIA
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`· · · · · · ·WEDNESDAY, FEBRUARY 5, 2020
`
`Reported by:
`LINDA VACCAREZZA, RPR, CLR, CRP
`CSR. NO. 10201
`NO. 20-86404
`
`1
`
`BLACKBERRY 2017
`FACEBOOK V. BLACKBERRY
`IPR2019-00925
`
`
`
`· · · BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
`FACEBOOK, INC., INSTRAGRAM,· · )
`LLC, and WHATSAPP INC.,· · · · )
`· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·)
`· · · · · · · · ·Petitioners,· )
`vs.· · · · · · · · · · · · · · )CASE:· PRI2019-00925
`· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·)
`BLACKBERRY LIMITED,· · · · · · )
`· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·)
`· · · · · · · · ·Patent Owner. )
`· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·)
`_______________________________)
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`· · · · · · · · · · DEPOSITION OF
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`· · · · · · · SANDEEP CHATTERJEE, Ph.D.
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`· · · · · · · REDWOOD CITY, CALIFORNIA
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`· · · · · · ·WEDNESDAY, FEBRUARY 5, 2020
`
`Reported by:
`LINDA VACCAREZZA, RPR, CLR, CRP
`CSR. NO. 10201
`NO. 20-86404
`
`1
`
`BLACKBERRY 2017
`FACEBOOK V. BLACKBERRY
`IPR2019-00925
`
`
`
`·1· · · · ·UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`
`·2· · · · ·BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
`·3
`
`·4· ·FACEBOOK, INC., INSTRAGRAM,· · )
`· · ·LLC, and WHATSAPP INC.,· · · · )
`·5· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · )
`· · · · · · · · · · · Petitioners,· )
`·6· ·vs.· · · · · · · · · · · · · · )CASE:· PRI2019-00925
`· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · )
`·7· ·BLACKBERRY LIMITED,· · · · · · )
`· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · )
`·8· · · · · · · · · · Patent Owner. )
`· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · )
`·9· ·_______________________________)
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`10
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`11
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`12· · · · · · · · · · · ·DEPOSITION OF
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`13· · · · · · · · ·SANDEEP CHATTERJEE, Ph.D.
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`14· · · · · · · · ·REDWOOD CITY, CALIFORNIA
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`15· · · · · · · · WEDNESDAY, FEBRUARY 5, 2020
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`23
`· · ·Reported by:
`24· ·LINDA VACCAREZZA, RPR, CLR, CRP
`· · ·CSR. NO. 10201
`25· ·NO. 20-86404
`
`2
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`·5· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · February 5, 2020
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`·6· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 9:27 a.m.
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`·7
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`·8
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`·9· · · · Videotaped Deposition of SANDEEP CHATTERJEE, held
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`10· ·at 500 Arguello Street, Redwood City, California,
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`11· ·pursuant to Subpoena before Linda Vaccarezza, a
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`12· ·Certified Shorthand Reporter of the State of
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`13· ·California.
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`·1· ·A P P E A R A N C E S:
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`·2
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`·3· · · · · · COOLEY
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`·4· · · · · · Representing Petitioners
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`·5· · · · · · 3175 Hanover Street
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`·6· · · · · · Palo Alto, CA 94304
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`·7· · · · · · Amace@cooley.com
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`·8· · · · · · By:· ANDREW MACE, ESQ.
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`·9
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`10· · · · · · Fish & Richardson
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`11· · · · · · Representing Patent Owner
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`12· · · · · · 3200 RBC Plaza
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`13· · · · · · 60 South Sixth Street
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`14· · · · · · Minneapolis, MN 55402
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`15· · · · · · Deutsch@fr.com
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`16· · · · · · BY:· CRAIG A. DEUTSCH, ESQ.
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`·1· · · · · · · · · · · · ·I N D E X
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`·2· ·WITNESS:· SANDEEP CHATTERJEE
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`·3· · · · · · Examination by
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`·4· · · · · · MR. Deutsch................................5
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`·5· · · · · · · · · · ·E X H I B I T S
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`·6· ·Exhibit 1109
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`·7· · · · · · Patent No. US 2002/0142758.................8
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`·8· ·Exhibit 1102
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`·9· · · · · · Declaration of Sandeep Chattergee..........9
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`10· ·Exhibit 1110
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`11· · · · · · A, B, C's of the Internet Printout.........8
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`12· ·Exhibit 1103
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`13· · · · · · Patent No. US 7,434,177....................7
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`14· ·Exhibit 1101
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`15· · · · · · Patent No. US 8,209,634....................7
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`17· · · · · · · · · ·EXHIBITS ARE NOT ATTACHED
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`·1· · · · · · · · · SANDEEP CHATTERJEE,
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`·2· · · · · · Having been duly sworn by the Certified
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`·3· ·Shorthand Reporter, was examined and testified as
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`·4· ·follows.
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`·5· · · · · · · · · · ·EXAMINATION
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`·6· ·BY MR. DEUTSCH:
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`·7· · · ·Q.· ·All right.· Thank you for being here today,
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`·8· ·Dr. Chatterjee.· We'll go over just a few ground
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`·9· ·rules, although I think you're familiar with the
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`10· ·process.· To start, our conversation is being
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`11· ·transcribed so to make her job easier, avoid speaking
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`12· ·over each other.· I'll ask questions and I'll give you
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`13· ·an opportunity to respond.· If you can respond to the
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`14· ·question verbally rather than non-verbal cues, that
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`15· ·sort of thing.
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`16· · · · · · This isn't intended to be a marathon so just
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`17· ·let me know if you would like to take a break at any
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`18· ·time.
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`19· · · · · · So if you can please state your full name.
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`20· · · ·A.· ·Sandeep Chatterjee.
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`21· · · ·Q.· ·And where do you live currently?
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`22· · · ·A.· ·Foster City.
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`23· · · ·Q.· ·And where do you currently work?
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`24· · · ·A.· ·Experantis, LLC.
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`25· · · ·Q.· ·Is that your only employer right now?
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`·1· · · ·A.· ·No I.· Have a couple of different employers.
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`·2· · · ·Q.· ·Could you list those?
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`·3· · · ·A.· ·Oh, sure.· For example, S3G Technology is
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`·4· ·another one.· I'm also part of the World Economic
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`·5· ·Forum.· I think those are the only ones that pop to
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`·6· ·the top of my head.· But everything is in my is CV
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`·7· ·which was attached to the IPR declaration.
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`·8· · · ·Q.· ·Okay.· Dr. Chatterjee, you understand you're
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`·9· ·under oath today?
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`10· · · ·A.· ·I do.
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`11· · · ·Q.· ·Is there any reason you cannot give truthful
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`12· ·and accurate testimony?
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`13· · · ·A.· ·No reason.
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`14· · · ·Q.· ·Just to clarify, I'll go through a few terms
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`15· ·that I'm likely to use today in the deposition.· When
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`16· ·I use the term "patent owner" or "BlackBerry" I'm
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`17· ·referring to BlackBerry Limited?
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`18· · · ·A.· ·Yes, I understand.
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`19· · · ·Q.· ·And when I use the term "petitioner" or
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`20· ·"Facebook," I'm collectively referring to all of the
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`21· ·petitioners in this proceeding?
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`22· · · ·A.· ·Okay.
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`23· · · ·Q.· ·Do you understand?
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`24· · · ·A.· ·I do.
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`25· · · ·Q.· ·And when I use the term "634 patent" I'm
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`·1· ·referring to U.S. Patent Number 8,209,634 which is the
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`·2· ·subject of this proceeding.· And this is marked as
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`·3· ·Exhibit 1101 in this proceeding.
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`·4· · · · · · Does that make sense?
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`·5· · · ·A.· ·It does.· I don't remember the entire patent
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`·6· ·number but I do remember it's the -- it's ending in
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`·7· ·634.
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`·8· · · ·Q.· ·Sure.· And I'll hand you the 634 patents
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`·9· ·which have been marked as Exhibit 1101.
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`10· · · · · · (Previously marked Exhibit No. 1101.)
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`11· ·BY MR. DEUTSCH:
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`12· · · ·Q.· ·And when I use the term "Ording,"
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`13· ·O-R-D-I-N-G, I'm referring to U.S. Patent 7,434,177
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`14· ·which has been marked as Exhibit 1103.
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`15· · · · · · Do you understand?
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`16· · · ·A.· ·I haven't met -- same thing.· I haven't
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`17· ·memorized the patent number for Ording but I know what
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`18· ·you mean by "Ording."
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`19· · · ·Q.· ·And I'll go ahead and hand you these exhibits
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`20· ·now since we'll be referring to them later in our
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`21· ·discussion.· So I'm handing you what's been marked as
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`22· ·Exhibit 1103, Ording patent.
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`23· · · · · · (Previously marked Exhibit No. 1103.)
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`24· ·BY MR. DEUTSCH:
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`25· · · ·Q.· ·Similarly, when I use the term "Abiko," I'm
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`·1· ·referring to Patent publication Number 2002,
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`·2· ·0142758.· This has been marked as Exhibit 1109 in
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`·3· ·this proceeding.
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`·4· · · · · · (Previously marked Exhibit No. 1109.)
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`·5· ·BY MR. DEUTSCH:
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`·6· · · ·Q.· ·When I use the term "Crumlish," I'm
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`·7· ·referring to Exhibit 1110 which is an excerpt of a
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`·8· ·book by Chris Crumlish entitled "The ABCs of the
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`·9· ·Internet."
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`10· · · · · · Do you understand?
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`11· · · ·A.· ·I do.
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`12· · · · · · (Previously marked Exhibit No. 1110.)
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`13· ·BY MR. DEUTSCH:
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`14· · · ·Q.· ·Just a couple more.· When I use the term
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`15· ·"Dvorak," I'm referring to the PC Magazine article
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`16· ·"Scarier Than Spam."· And that's Exhibit 1111 in
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`17· ·this proceeding.
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`18· · · · · · Are you familiar with Dvorak?
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`19· · · ·A.· ·I am.
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`20· · · · · · (Previously marked Exhibit No. 1111.)
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`21· ·BY MR. DEUTSCH:
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`22· · · ·Q.· ·And "McPherson" refers to Exhibit 1112
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`23· ·which is an excerpt from the book by Frank
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`24· ·McPherson entitled "How to do everything with your
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`25· ·pocket PC."
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`·1· · · · · · Do you understand?
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`·2· · · ·A.· ·I do.
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`·3· · · · · · (Previously marked Exhibit No. 1112.)
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`·4· ·BY MR. DEUTSCH:
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`·5· · · ·Q.· ·And when I refer to the "634 declaration"
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`·6· ·I'm referring to your declaration that was
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`·7· ·submitted as Exhibit 1102 in this proceeding.
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`·8· · · · · · (Previously marked Exhibit No. 1102.)
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`·9· ·BY MR. DEUTSCH:
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`10· · · ·Q.· ·Handing you a couple of the declaration
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`11· ·that's been marked as 1102.· And when I use the
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`12· ·acronym "POSITA," I'm referring to a person of
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`13· ·ordinary skill in the art at the time of the
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`14· ·alleged invention.
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`15· · · · · · You're familiar with the term "POSITA"?
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`16· · · ·A.· ·I am.
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`17· · · ·Q.· ·Talking about your preparation for the
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`18· ·deposition today, how many times have you been
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`19· ·deposed previously roughly?
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`20· · · ·A.· ·For these matters or in general?
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`21· · · ·Q.· ·Just in general, in IPRs or district court
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`22· ·litigation.
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`23· · · ·A.· ·I think approximately 60 times.
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`24· · · ·Q.· ·Okay.· Could you describe how you prepared
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`25· ·for today's deposition?
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`·1· · · ·A.· ·I reviewed the relevant documents, and "by
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`·2· ·relevant documents," you sort of enumerated them
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`·3· ·earlier together with my declaration as well as
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`·4· ·other documents is that are part of this case, this
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`·5· ·file.
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`·6· · · ·Q.· ·Sure.· And I think maybe if you turn to
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`·7· ·Paragraph 11 of your declaration, I think there's a
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`·8· ·list of materials cited.
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`·9· · · ·A.· ·(Witness complies.)
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`10· · · ·Q.· ·Do you see that?
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`11· · · ·A.· ·I do.· But what I was referring to was in
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`12· ·addition to this.
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`13· · · ·Q.· ·You reviewed other materials in addition
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`14· ·to these?
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`15· · · ·A.· ·Yes.
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`16· · · ·Q.· ·What materials were those?
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`17· · · ·A.· ·Well, for example, when I read this
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`18· ·declaration, the patent owner preliminary response
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`19· ·was not available and the declaration accompanying
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`20· ·that was not available.· The decision from the PTAB
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`21· ·was not available.· So in addition to what's here,
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`22· ·I also reviewed those documents.· There may have
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`23· ·been other documents as well but those are like the
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`24· ·key documents in addition to what's listed here.
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`25· · · ·Q.· ·Understood.· When you say there may be
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`·1· ·other documents, were there any other documents
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`·2· ·that you specifically recall looking at?
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`·3· · · ·A.· ·No.· I'm just -- I'm just trying to
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`·4· ·remember if there was anything cited by the Surati
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`·5· ·declaration.· I don't think there is.· So that's
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`·6· ·really what I was referring to, like if there was
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`·7· ·any additional documents cited by the patent owner
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`·8· ·preliminary response or the Surati declaration.
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`·9· ·But as far as I remember, I don't think there is.
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`10· ·So I think that is the world of the documents as
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`11· ·far as I remember.
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`12· · · ·Q.· ·Okay.· Did you conduct any searching as
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`13· ·part of that?· Was there anything --
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`14· · · ·A.· ·I'm not sure what you mean by did I
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`15· ·conduct any searching?
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`16· · · ·Q.· ·All right.· Let me rephrase.· Did you
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`17· ·conduct any additional prior art searching at this
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`18· ·stage?
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`19· · · ·A.· ·No.
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`20· · · ·Q.· ·As part of your preparation to testify
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`21· ·today, did you communicate with anyone?
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`22· · · ·A.· ·I don't believe so.· Only counsel.
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`23· · · ·Q.· ·Could you identify who that is?· Is that
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`24· ·Mr. Mace?
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`25· · · ·A.· ·Yes.
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`·1· · · ·Q.· ·Okay.· Going back earlier in time, do you
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`·2· ·recall when you were first contacted by someone on
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`·3· ·behalf of Facebook to work on these IPRs?
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`·4· · · ·A.· ·I don't off the top of my head, but it was
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`·5· ·shortly before the first IPR declaration was filed
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`·6· ·and I don't remember exactly when that was.
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`·7· · · ·Q.· ·Do you recall who contacted you?
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`·8· · · ·A.· ·If I remember correctly, it was Mr. Mace.
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`·9· · · ·Q.· ·And what did you do, if anything, after
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`10· ·that conversation before agreeing to work on the
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`11· ·'634 patents in these proceedings?
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`12· · · ·A.· ·Well, I believe -- so two things.· One is
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`13· ·I think your question was with regards to when I
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`14· ·was engaged.· Was your question specifically with
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`15· ·regards to the '634 or the other patents as well?
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`16· · · ·Q.· ·I think more generally the set of patents
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`17· ·when you were first contacted --
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`18· · · ·A.· ·Okay.
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`19· · · ·Q.· ·-- for this?
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`20· · · ·A.· ·So then my answer was correct.· That it
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`21· ·was prior to whenever I submitted the first
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`22· ·declaration.· And then I forgot your question now.
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`23· · · ·Q.· ·Did you do anything before agreeing to be
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`24· ·engaged or be retained on behalf of Facebook for
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`25· ·these IPRs?
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`·1· · · ·A.· ·Yes.· I went through the patents to make
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`·2· ·sure that they are in my area of expertise. I
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`·3· ·believe that's what I did.· Again, this was some
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`·4· ·time ago.· But that's my general practice, that I
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`·5· ·want to make sure that patents are squarely in my
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`·6· ·area prior to agreeing.
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`·7· · · ·Q.· ·And was that, to the best of your
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`·8· ·knowledge, were you familiar with the '634 patent
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`·9· ·before being contacted to work on this matter or
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`10· ·was the '634 patent something that you had
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`11· ·encountered previously?
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`12· · · ·A.· ·As far as I'm aware, I've never known
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`13· ·about the '634 patent.
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`14· · · ·Q.· ·What were you tasked to do next after you
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`15· ·were engaged?
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`16· · · ·A.· ·I believe after that it was basically
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`17· ·reviewing the documents and discussing with counsel
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`18· ·my reactions and thoughts to reviewing the
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`19· ·documents.
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`20· · · ·Q.· ·When you say "reviewing the documents,"
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`21· ·that includes the materials listed in Paragraph 11?
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`22· · · ·A.· ·I wouldn't say it includes all of them but
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`23· ·it includes the substantive documents like Ording
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`24· ·and the '634 patent and Abiko, things like that.
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`25· · · ·Q.· ·So Ording was one of the references that
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`·1· ·was provided as part of those materials?
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`·2· · · ·A.· ·After I was engaged, yes.
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`·3· · · ·Q.· ·Yes.· And similarly, I understood you said
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`·4· ·Abiko was also one of those materials that was
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`·5· ·provided?
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`·6· · · ·A.· ·Again, I can't tell you 100 percent but I
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`·7· ·believe so.
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`·8· · · ·Q.· ·Dvorak we mentioned is an article from the
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`·9· ·January 1999 edition of PC Magazine.· Was the
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`10· ·entire addition of that magazine provided to you or
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`11· ·was it only the excerpted portion that's in Exhibit
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`12· ·1111 provided to you?
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`13· · · ·A.· ·So I think I'm not sure whether that was
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`14· ·provided to me or not.· Again, this is a long time
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`15· ·ago.· And what exactly was provided, I can't tell
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`16· ·you off the top of my head.
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`17· · · ·Q.· ·Do you have a specific recollection of
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`18· ·reviewing the entire edition of that magazine as
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`19· ·compared to the article that we are focusing on
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`20· ·here by Dvorak?
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`21· · · ·A.· ·I don't.· But I have flipped through the
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`22· ·pages and as far as I recall, I have reviewed more
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`23· ·than just that article in a vacuum.
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`24· · · ·Q.· ·Okay.· For Crumlish, was the entire book
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`25· ·provided to you or only the excerpted portion
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`·1· ·that's included in 1110?
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`·2· · · ·A.· ·Again, as far as I remember, I think it's
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`·3· ·the same answer.· I don't recall 100 percent.· But
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`·4· ·I know for a fact I reviewed more than what's cited
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`·5· ·to in my declaration with regards to Crumlish as
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`·6· ·well.
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`·7· · · ·Q.· ·When you mean what's cited, the specific
`
`·8· ·cites in your declaration or are you referring to
`
`·9· ·-- what's the pages included in Exhibit 1110?
`
`10· · · ·A.· ·I mean both.
`
`11· · · ·Q.· ·And do you recall, was that -- when you
`
`12· ·reviewed Crumlish, were you reviewing a PDF version
`
`13· ·of it or an electronic version of it?
`
`14· · · ·A.· ·Yes.· As far as I remember it was in
`
`15· ·electronic format.
`
`16· · · ·Q.· ·And I think you said you do not have a
`
`17· ·specific memory of reviewing the entire book, the
`
`18· ·entire Crumlish book?
`
`19· · · ·A.· ·Yeah.· I think what I'm saying is I don't
`
`20· ·remember with a hundred percent certainty whether
`
`21· ·-- like what exactly I reviewed or did not review.
`
`22· ·It would not surprise me that I have not read like
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`23· ·every word in that book.· But I can't tell you with
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`24· ·a hundred percent certainty.
`
`25· · · ·Q.· ·How did you decide or did you decide what
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`·1· ·chapters to include in Exhibit 1110 and which
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`·2· ·chapters not to include?
`
`·3· · · ·A.· ·Well, I think that decision was based on
`
`·4· ·what I cited to in my declaration.· So that was
`
`·5· ·like the primarily guiding factor.· If I'm not
`
`·6· ·going to cite to it and it has like no relevance
`
`·7· ·whatsoever to what I'm referencing the book for,
`
`·8· ·then there's really no need to waste the time to
`
`·9· ·sort of include it.
`
`10· · · ·Q.· ·Understood.· So the parts that were cited
`
`11· ·and relevant to what you were saying are included
`
`12· ·in the exhibit and the parts that you thought were
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`13· ·not are not included?
`
`14· · · ·A.· ·Well, I think that's not exactly what I
`
`15· ·said.· I think what I said was that what I cited to
`
`16· ·is definitely included and there are some parts
`
`17· ·that may be relevant as well but I did not include
`
`18· ·them because I didn't cite to them.· So there is a
`
`19· ·lot of material within that book.
`
`20· · · · · · So it's simply what I cited to, I
`
`21· ·included.· And if it's like completely irrelevant,
`
`22· ·I didn't include it.· But then there are some other
`
`23· ·portions.· Like I do remember that I have reviewed
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`24· ·more than what I've cited to.· And so I think
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`25· ·that's my own clarification.
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`·1· · · ·Q.· ·Thanks for clarifying.· Let's turn to
`
`·2· ·McPherson, and this is also a book, Exhibit 1112.
`
`·3· ·Was this one of the materials that was provided to
`
`·4· ·you or was this something you located?
`
`·5· · · ·A.· ·I couldn't really tell you off the top of
`
`·6· ·my head.· It may have been provided to me.· I just
`
`·7· ·don't recall.
`
`·8· · · ·Q.· ·Do you have a specific memory of reviewing
`
`·9· ·the entire contents of McPherson?
`
`10· · · ·A.· ·I do have a specific memory of reviewing
`
`11· ·quite a bit of it.· And -- and I remember that
`
`12· ·because I owned a number of these pocket PCs like
`
`13· ·the HP Jornada and the Compact iPad and things like
`
`14· ·that.· But again, whether I read every word in
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`15· ·there, I couldn't tell you and it would not
`
`16· ·surprise me if I did not read every word.
`
`17· · · ·Q.· ·And to be clear, you're talking about the
`
`18· ·entire contents of McPherson in addition to what
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`19· ·was included in Exhibit 1112?
`
`20· · · ·A.· ·Yes.· What I forgot to state was that I
`
`21· ·know for a fact that I reviewed more than what is
`
`22· ·included in Exhibit 1112.· And I think what I was
`
`23· ·saying was that because it was very interesting
`
`24· ·reading about these devices that I myself own, I do
`
`25· ·remember reading quite a bit of it as well.· Even
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`·1· ·outside of what is included in Exhibit 1112.
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`·2· · · ·Q.· ·And for McPherson, how did you decide what
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`·3· ·was included in Exhibit 1112 and what was excluded
`
`·4· ·from Exhibit 1112?
`
`·5· · · ·A.· ·I think that's the same answer as earlier
`
`·6· ·for the other books.
`
`·7· · · ·Q.· ·Could you explain that?
`
`·8· · · ·A.· ·Well, what I stated earlier for the other
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`·9· ·books was that if it was cited in my declaration,
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`10· ·that it was definitely included.· If I thought it
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`11· ·was completely unrelated, it was not included.· And
`
`12· ·then if there were parts that were related but not
`
`13· ·cited, then it was like a -- I made a decision
`
`14· ·whether to include it or not include.· And I don't
`
`15· ·remember exactly which way I went for all of those
`
`16· ·portions of them.
`
`17· · · ·Q.· ·Sure.· Understood.· And when you say
`
`18· ·"related" you mean related to the analysis that you
`
`19· ·were setting forth in your declaration?
`
`20· · · ·A.· ·Yes.
`
`21· · · ·Q.· ·Were you asked to do any prior art
`
`22· ·searching at the time frame before you put together
`
`23· ·your declaration?
`
`24· · · ·A.· ·So I think -- I don't remember off the top
`
`25· ·of my head.· Again, this is a long time ago.· I may
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`·1· ·have or I may not have.· I don't remember.· Like I
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`·2· ·mentioned earlier, I don't remember whether all of
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`·3· ·these were provided to me or not.· And so if some
`
`·4· ·of them were not provided to me, then definitely I
`
`·5· ·had to perform searches.· But I couldn't tell you
`
`·6· ·one way or another.· I just don't recall.
`
`·7· · · ·Q.· ·Okay.· You don't recall if you were asked
`
`·8· ·to do any prior searching and you don't recall if
`
`·9· ·any of the references were the result of your prior
`
`10· ·art searching that were provided to you?
`
`11· · · ·A.· ·Right.· Especially given that there's been
`
`12· ·a number of declarations, a number of patents.
`
`13· · · ·Q.· ·Can you explain the process of writing
`
`14· ·your declaration?
`
`15· · · ·A.· ·I'm not sure how to answer that question.
`
`16· ·It's -- basically like I mentioned, I reviewed the
`
`17· ·relevant materials, for example, the '634 relevant
`
`18· ·prior art, performed the analysis in my mind and
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`19· ·then start putting it -- putting pen to paper.· And
`
`20· ·then iterating over it.
`
`21· · · ·Q.· ·So on that last point you were saying you
`
`22· ·personally wrote the entirety of the first drafts?
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`23· · · ·A.· ·The first draft, yes.
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`24· · · ·Q.· ·Is that your usual process for these types
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`25· ·of declarations?
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`·1· · · ·A.· ·Yes.· Declarations, expert reports.· Yes,
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`·2· ·I typically put together the first draft and then
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`·3· ·it's always good having extra eyes on documents so
`
`·4· ·typos and things like that can be caught and if
`
`·5· ·something is coming across unclear, it can be
`
`·6· ·caught and then I can explain it better.· So yes,
`
`·7· ·that is my usual process.
`
`·8· · · ·Q.· ·As part of either your preparation of the
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`·9· ·declaration or your work on these IPRs
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`10· ·subsequently, did you ever communicate with any of
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`11· ·the named inventors on the '634 patent?
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`12· · · ·A.· ·I don't even know who they are.· So as
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`13· ·apart from seeing them on the list.· So as far as I
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`14· ·know I don't know who they are.
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`15· · · ·Q.· ·Did you communicate with any person
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`16· ·affiliated with Facebook other than Facebook's
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`17· ·counsel?
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`18· · · ·A.· ·With regards to my work on this matter?
`
`19· · · ·Q.· ·Yeah.· Specifically with respect to the
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`20· ·'634 patents?
`
`21· · · ·A.· ·No.
`
`22· · · ·Q.· ·And so for this IPR you haven't
`
`23· ·communicated with anyone other than counsel?
`
`24· · · ·A.· ·Yes.
`
`25· · · ·Q.· ·If you flip to Page 105 of the
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`·1· ·declaration.· It's dated April 3rd, 2019.
`
`·2· · · ·A.· ·You're looking at the page numbers from
`
`·3· ·the original declaration, not the Bates?
`
`·4· · · ·Q.· ·Yes.
`
`·5· · · ·A.· ·Okay.
`
`·6· · · ·Q.· ·Have any of your opinions changed since
`
`·7· ·that time from those that were provided in this
`
`·8· ·declaration?
`
`·9· · · ·A.· ·Absolutely not.· No.
`
`10· · · ·Q.· ·Are you aware of any errors that exist?
`
`11· · · ·A.· ·I think there are a couple of typos that I
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`12· ·found when I was going through it.· It's -- at
`
`13· ·least as I am sure you know when you're drafting a
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`14· ·document, it's sort of harder to find typos at that
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`15· ·time, but then when you look at it again several
`
`16· ·months later, the typos pop out at you.
`
`17· · · ·Q.· ·Sure.· Let's turn to Page 8 of your
`
`18· ·declaration.· This is where the section entitled
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`19· ·"Claim construction" begins on Paragraph 16.
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`20· · · · · · And in Paragraph 16 the declaration states
`
`21· ·that "Claim terms are generally given their
`
`22· ·ordinary and customary meaning which is the meaning
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`23· ·that the term would have to a person of ordinary
`
`24· ·skill in the art in question at the time of
`
`25· ·invention, i.e., as of the effective filing date of
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`·1· ·the patent application."
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`·2· · · · · · Do you see that?
`
`·3· · · ·A.· ·I do.
`
`·4· · · ·Q.· ·Is the ordinary and customary meaning
`
`·5· ·standard articulated in Paragraph 16 the standard
`
`·6· ·that is applied to the opinions in your
`
`·7· ·declaration?
`
`·8· · · ·A.· ·Well, I'm not sure what you mean by "in
`
`·9· ·Paragraph 16."· I think I -- there's additional
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`10· ·paragraphs within this claim construction section.
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`11· ·And so to the extent that you're asking did I apply
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`12· ·the Phillips standard, I did, yes.
`
`13· · · ·Q.· ·Okay.· Thanks for clarifying.· I guess
`
`14· ·going a little further in Paragraph 16, you also
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`15· ·state that "A person of ordinary skill in the art
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`16· ·is deemed to read the claim term not only in the
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`17· ·context of the particular claim in which a claim
`
`18· ·term appears but in the context of the entire
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`19· ·patents including the specification."
`
`20· · · · · · And in Paragraph 17, you mention that "The
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`21· ·patent specification has been described as the
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`22· ·single best guide to the meaning of the claim term
`
`23· ·and is thus highly relevant to the interpretation
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`24· ·of the claim terms."
`
`25· · · · · · Is there any claim term for which you
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`·1· ·looked to the specification to determine its
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`·2· ·ordinary and customary meaning?
`
`·3· · · ·A.· ·I'm not sure I understand your question.
`
`·4· ·I believe there are three claim terms that I
`
`·5· ·started discussing from Paragraph 27 onwards.· So
`
`·6· ·I'm not sure I understand what you mean by -- are
`
`·7· ·you asking in addition to the three or what do
`
`·8· ·you --
`
`·9· · · ·Q.· ·Let me -- I can rephrase.· Are there any
`
`10· ·terms that you specifically recall needing to refer
`
`11· ·to the specification of the '634 patent in order to
`
`12· ·perform your analysis of comparing like the claim
`
`13· ·to the prior art?
`
`14· · · ·A.· ·Sorry.· I think I'm still not
`
`15· ·understanding.· Like I just explained that there
`
`16· ·are three claim terms that I specifically discuss
`
`17· ·in my declaration as far as I remember off the top
`
`18· ·of my head right now.· And so I did and I provide a
`
`19· ·very lengthy analysis, and in that analysis I
`
`20· ·reference the specification, I reference the file
`
`21· ·history.· So I think I'm not understanding your
`
`22· ·question whether you're talking about in addition
`
`23· ·to that or what -- what you're asking me.
`
`24· · · ·Q.· ·In addition to -- sure.· In addition to
`
`25· ·those terms, were there any other terms that you
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`·1· ·looked to the specification in order to understand
`
`·2· ·their meaning sufficiently to perform your
`
`·3· ·analysis?
`
`·4· · · ·A.· ·So again off the top of my head, I can't
`
`·5· ·tell you if I did.· If I did, it's set forth in my
`
`·6· ·declaration.
`
`·7· · · ·Q.· ·You had mentioned earlier that you
`
`·8· ·reviewed the institution decision from the board.
`
`·9· ·I'm handing you a copy of that institution
`
`10· ·decision.
`
`11· · · ·A.· ·(Document review.)
`
`12· · · ·Q.· ·If you could turn to Pages 8 and 9 of the
`
`13· ·institution decision.· The board adopted three
`
`14· ·preliminary claim constructions shown in the chart.
`
`15· · · · · · Were you aware of those three
`
`16· ·constructions adopted by the board?
`
`17· · · ·A.· ·Are you asking right now if I'm aware of
`
`18· ·it?
`
`19· · · ·Q.· ·Sure.
`
`20· · · ·A.· ·Yes.
`
`21· · · ·Q.· ·And in doing so the board considered the
`
`22· ·district court's claim construction ruling which is
`
`23· ·referred to as Exhibit 2002 in this proceeding when
`
`24· ·adopting these three preliminary claim
`
`25· ·constructions shown in the chart.
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`·1· · · · · · Do you see that on Page 8?
`
`·2· · · ·A.· ·Yes.· I think on Page 8 it's saying "Thus
`
`·3· ·we adopt the following."
`
`·4· · · ·Q.· ·In your opinion, did the board err in
`
`·5· ·adopting any of these three preliminary claim
`
`·6· ·constructions that are shown on Pages 8 and 9?
`
`·7· · · ·A.· ·I haven't really considered whether they
`
`·8· ·made an error.· I believe it's reasonable and I
`
`·9· ·also reviewed the court's analysis and that seemed
`
`10· ·reasonable as well.· And so I believe it's
`
`11· ·reasonable.
`
`12· · · ·Q.· ·And when you say "reasonable," there's not
`
`13· ·a specific error that you would identify in those
`
`14· ·claim constructions?
`
`15· · · ·A.· ·But that's what I'm saying that I haven't
`
`16· ·really tried to analyze what the board decided with
`
`17· ·regards to claim construction.· Whether it was
`
`18· ·erroneous or not.· I think what I am saying is that
`
`19· ·based on an initial read they appear to be
`
`20· ·reasonable.· I have not performed a rigorous
`
`21· ·analysis whether it's -- whether there is some
`
`22· ·error or not.· It's simply they appear to be
`
`23· ·reasonable.
`
`24· · · ·Q.· ·Let's look back to your declaration.· In
`
`25· ·your declaration at Paragraphs 44 through 46 you
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`·1· ·provide a brief summary of Ording.
`
`·2· · · · · · Do you see that?
`
`·3· · · ·A.· ·I do.
`
`·4· · · ·Q.· ·And these particular paragraphs do not
`
`·5· ·contend that Ording describes wireless
`
`·6· ·communication, correct?
`
`·7· · · ·A.· ·So I haven't reviewed these paragraphs.
`
`·8· ·But I can't tell you everything that Ording has or
`
`·9· ·doesn't have, but as far as can I remember off the
`
`10· ·top of my head, I don't believe Ording specifically
`
`11· ·discloses wireless.· Again, this is just off the
`
`12· ·top of my head.· But I have not reviewed Ording
`
`13· ·right now and I have not reviewed these paragraphs
`
`14· ·right now.
`
`15· · · ·Q.· ·Take a quick looking look at those three
`
`16· ·paragraphs, or as much time as you need.
`
`17· · · ·A.· ·In those paragraphs, I did not see the
`
`18· ·word "wireless" in Paragraphs 44 to 46 of my
`
`19· ·declaration.· But again, I couldn't tell you
`
`20· ·whether it's in the entirety of Ording or not.
`
`21· · · ·Q.· ·Understood.· Referring again just to these
`
`22· ·three paragraphs, Paragraphs 44 to 46, do you now
`
`23· ·contend that Ording describes a number of messaging
`
`24· ·correspondence who have sent unread messages?
`
`25· · · ·A.· ·I'm sorry.· Say that again?· I didn't
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`·1· ·understand your question.· Do I contend what?
`
`·2· · · ·Q.· ·Do you contend -- do you contend in
`
`·3· ·Paragraphs 44 to 46 that Ording describes a number
`
`·4· ·of messaging correspondence who have sent unread
`
`·5· ·messages?
`
`·6· · · ·A.· ·Ording discloses that you can have -- I
`
`·7· ·forget exactly what he refers to it -- but you can
`
`·8· ·have like a numeric representation on top of one of
`
`·9· ·the tiles on his -- the user bar.· On top of the
`
`10· ·user bar that Ording discloses.· And he discloses
`
`11· ·-- he or she, I'm not sure -- but Ording discloses
`
`12· ·that it can be different types of numbers that can
`
`13· ·be represented or like status and things like that.
`
`14· ·Again, I'm just going from memory.· I don't
`
`15· ·remember exactly.· But in terms of the combination
`
`16· ·that I'm citing to in my declaration, I'm not -- as
`
`17· ·far as I remember, I'm not going to Ording for
`
`18· ·that.
`
`19· · · ·Q.· ·Let's turn to Paragraph 65.· This
`
`20· ·paragraph sets forth the analysis of the preamble
`
`21· ·of Claim 1; is that correct?
`
`22· · · ·A.· ·No.· Paragraph 65 is simply reciting the
`
`23· ·preamble.· The actual analysis starts after that.
`
`24· · · ·Q.· ·Your analysis of the preamble starts on
`
`25· ·Paragraph 66 and continues through to Paragraph 78
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`·1· ·which is followed by the heading for Claim Element
`
`·2· ·1-A.
`
`·3· · · ·A.· ·What is the paragraph number that you've
`
`·4· ·stated?· 65 to --
`
`·5· · · ·Q.· ·78.
`
`·6· · · ·A.· ·So I would agree with you in general.
`
`·7· ·It's 65 to 78.· But on top of that there is the
`
`·8· ·portion that I've cited to you summarizing the
`
`·9· ·prior art as well.· So I think in general I would
`
`10· ·agree with you, but there may be additional
`
`11· ·analyses that are put forth in other portions of my
`
`12· ·declaration.
`
`13· · · ·Q.· ·And in this analysis of the preamble in
`
`14· ·these paragraphs, particularly on Paragraph 67, you
`
`15· ·indicated that
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