Transcript of Patrick D. McDaniel, Ph.D.
`Conducted on March 6, 2020
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` A P P E A R A N C E S
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`FOR THE PETITIONER:
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` MR. DAVID OKANO
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` ATTORNEY AT LAW
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` PAUL HASTINGS
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` 875 15TH STREET, N.W.
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` WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005
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` davidokano@paulhastings.com
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`FOR THE PATENT OWNER:
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` MR. NICHOLAS W. STEPHENS
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` ATTORNEY AT LAW
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` FISH & RICHARDSON PC
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` 60 SOUTH 6TH STREET
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` MINNEAPOLIS, MN 55402
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` nstephens@fr.com
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` UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
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` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
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`SNAP INC., : Case IPR2019-00715
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` PETITIONER, : U.S. PATENT NO. 8,326,327
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`v. : Case IPR2019-00714
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`BLACKBERRY LIMITED, : U.S. PATENT NO. 8,825,084
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` PATENT OWNER. :
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` DEPOSITION OF
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` PATRICK D. MCDANIEL, PH.D.
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` MINNEAPOLIS, MINNESOTA
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` FRIDAY, MARCH 6, 2020
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` 8:40 A.M.
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` Job No.: 289667
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` Pages: 1 - 202
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` Reported By: Myrina A. Kleinschmidt, RMR, CRR, CRC
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` C O N T E N T S
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` PAGE
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` EXAMINATION BY MR. OKANO 6
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` EXAMINATION BY MR. STEPHENS 196
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` E X H I B I T S
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` (Attached to transcript.)
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`EXHIBIT/DESCRIPTION PAGE
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` DEPOSITION OF PATRICK D. McDANIEL, Ph.D., HELD
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`AT THE OFFICES OF FISH & RICHARDSON, P.C.
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` 60 SOUTH 6TH STREET
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` MINNEAPOLIS, MINNESOTA 55402
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` (612) 335-5070
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` PURSUANT TO NOTICE, BEFORE MYRINA A.
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`KLEINSCHMIDT, RMR, CRR, CRC, NOTARY PUBLIC IN AND
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`FOR THE STATE OF MINNESOTA, COUNTY OF HENNEPIN
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` Exhibit 1 Petitioner's Amended Notice 9
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` of Deposition of Patrick
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` McDaniel - Case
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` IPR2019-00715 (3 pgs)
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` Exhibit 2 Petitioner's Amended Notice 9
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` of Deposition of Patrick
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` McDaniel - Case
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` IPR2019-0074 (3 pgs)
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` Exhibit 3 Deposition transcript of 147
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` Patrick McDaniel, Ph.D.,
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` held on Feb 5, 2019, in Re:
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` Blackberry limited v. Snap
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`Snap Inc. Ex. 1013 Page 0001
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`SNAP INC. v. BLACKBERRY LIMITED
`IPR2019-00714
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`Transcript of Patrick D. McDaniel, Ph.D.
`Conducted on March 6, 2020
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`2 (5 to 8)
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` A I do.
` Q What is your home address?
` A 1480 Chestnut Ridge Drive, State College,
`PA 16803.
` Q And, Dr. McDaniel, I understand you have
`been deposed a number of times. Are you familiar
`with the ground rules or do you want me to go
`over --
` A I'm familiar with the ground rules.
` Q Okay. If there's a point where you ever
`need me to clarify something, I'm happy to do so,
`but otherwise, I'm not going to go over them at
`this point.
` A All right.
` MR. OKANO: To begin, I think we can
`stipulate on record, Counsel, that this deposition
`will be used for both IPR 2019-0074 (sic) and --
` MR. STEPHENS: 00714?
` MR. OKANO: Yeah, 714 and 00715.
` MR. STEPHENS: Yes, we agree.
`BY MR. OKANO:
` Q Okay. And then just going forward so we
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` Inc, Case No.
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` 2:18-CV-02693-GW(KSx)
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` (Transcript pages 1 -
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` 98/4-per-page format)
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`PREVIOUSLY MARKED EXHIBITS PAGE
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`Exhibit 1001 .............................. 17
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`Exhibit 1004 ..............................113
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`Exhibit 1005 ..............................122
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`Exhibit 2002 ..............................146
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`Exhibit 2003 .............................. 13
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`Exhibit 2007 .............................. 55
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` P R O C E E D I N G S
` WHEREUPON, the following proceedings were duly
`had:
` (The oath was administered by the
`court stenographer.)
` WITNESS RESPONSE: I do.
` MR. OKANO: David Okano for Paul Hastings
`and Snap Inc.
` MR. STEPHENS: Nick Stephens from Fish &
`Richardson for BlackBerry.
` PATRICK D. McDANIEL, Ph.D.,
` a witness in the above-entitled proceedings,
` after having been first duly sworn,
` deposed under oath as follows:
` EXAMINATION
`BY MR. OKANO:
` Q Dr. McDaniel, would you mind stating and
`spelling your name for the record?
` A Patrick McDaniel, P-a-t-r-i-c-k,
`M-c-D-a-n-i-e-l.
` Q And, Dr. McDaniel, you are under oath.
`You know what that means?
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`don't say, like, a thousand numbers during every
`question, if I say "the '327 patent," will you
`understand that I'm referring to U.S. Patent
`No. 8,326,327?
` A Yes.
` Q And this is being challenged in
`IPR2019-00715, and so if I say "the 715 IPR," will
`you understand I'm referring to IPR2019-00715?
` A I'll try to remember that.
` Q Okay. I'm not going to try to use any
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`slipup of -- and confuse you.
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` A Yeah, yeah.
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` Q It's equally likely I will be confused, so
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`we'll just try to refer to the '327 patent. And
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`same for the '084 patent, when I refer to the '084
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`patent, will you understand I'm referring to U.S.
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`Patent No. 8,825,084, which is being challenged in
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`IPR2019-00714?
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` A Yes.
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` Q And if I say the 714 IPR, again, I'll
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`probably also say the '084 patent, but will you
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`understand I'm referring to the 2019-00714?
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`Transcript of Patrick D. McDaniel, Ph.D.
`Conducted on March 6, 2020
`9
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` A Yes.
` Q And I understand you are familiar with
`these patents and, generally, if I'm asking a
`question, I'm intending it to apply to both the
`'084 or the '327 patent, unless I specify one or
`the other.
` A Understood.
` (Deposition Exhibit Number 1 marked for
`identification by the court stenographer.)
` (Deposition Exhibit Number 2 marked for
`identification by the court stenographer.)
`BY MR. OKANO:
` Q So, Dr. McDaniel, the court reporter has
`given you what has been marked as Exhibits 1 and
`2. These are amended deposition notices of you
`for the 714 and the 715 IPRs. Have you seen these
`before?
` A I may have.
` Q And these are amended notices of
`deposition for today. So turning to this
`deposition, who did you meet with in preparing for
`the deposition today?
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`3 (9 to 12)
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`guess, when you say "the materials considered,"
`did you review any materials that were not listed
`in the exhibit list to your declarations?
` A I think I looked at some of my previous
`materials from the litigation just to kind of
`refresh my memory. And I think I misspoke. I did
`talk to some Quinn Emanuel attorneys, not
`necessarily to form any opinions here, but I just
`touched base with them for about 15 minutes a
`couple of days ago.
` Q Do you remember who you spoke with at
`Quinn Emanuel?
` A I can't get you the name. I don't know
`why I'm having trouble with names today.
` Q Jeff Nardinelli?
` A Yeah, Jeff, Jeff Nardinelli, yeah. I
`can't believe I forgot.
` Q Anyone else?
` A Patrick Schmidt, I believe, was on the
`phone as well.
` Q Jim Asperger?
` A No, I don't think so.
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` MR. STEPHENS: Caution the witness not to
`divulge any communications with counsel.
` A I met with counsel Nick Stephens and
`Mike --
` MR. STEPHENS: Michael Hawkins.
` A Michael Hawkins.
`BY MR. OKANO:
` Q Did you meet with any nonattorneys?
` A No.
` Q About how much time -- again, not seeking
`to elicit any privileged information, about how
`much time did you spend preparing for this
`deposition?
` A Probably 15 -- well, probably more like 25
`hours, something like that.
` Q And without -- again, without revealing
`any privileged information, what did you do to
`prepare for today's deposition?
` A I met with counsel to discuss the issues,
`I read the patents and my declarations and
`reviewed the materials considered.
` Q Did you review any documents -- or, I
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` Q And you said you spoke with them for about
`15 minutes?
` A Yeah, 15 or 20.
` Q And when you talk about the material from
`the district court, what in particular did you
`review?
` MR. STEPHENS: Objection. Form.
`Objection. Privileged to the extent it requires
`divulging what you talked about.
` THE WITNESS: Are you instructing me not
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`to answer?
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` MR. STEPHENS: You can discuss what you
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`reviewed, but nothing that you talked with counsel
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`about.
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` THE WITNESS: Understood.
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` A I reviewed some of my declarations for
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`that case.
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`BY MR. OKANO:
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` Q And the conversation you had with the
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`Quinn Emanuel attorneys a few days ago, was that
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`the only time you've spoken to them about this,
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`these IPRs, since you filed your --
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`Transcript of Patrick D. McDaniel, Ph.D.
`Conducted on March 6, 2020
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` A Yes.
` Q The second declaration in this case?
` A That's correct.
` Q Okay. Let's turn to your declarations,
`and these are Exhibit 2003 in both the 714 and the
`715 IPR.
` A I have them.
` Q They should be in front of you.
` A Yeah, I have them right here.
` MR. OKANO: And, Counsel, I don't think we
`need to mark --
` MR. STEPHENS: That's fine.
` MR. OKANO: And I can give you copies as
`well, once I locate them.
` MR. STEPHENS: I don't need copies.
` MR. OKANO: You don't need copies? Okay.
` MR. STEPHENS: No, that's fine.
` MR. OKANO: If you want them, I will
`provide them.
` MR. STEPHENS: Perfect.
`BY MR. OKANO:
` Q So let's turn to paragraph -- I guess page
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`4 (13 to 16)
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`opinions that are expressed in Exhibit 2003?
` A The materials that are listed here on
`paragraph 16, claims specification and prosecution
`history of the '327 patent, the petition, the '715
`petition we've been discussing. I can't think of
`anything else other than these.
` Q So you can't recall any other materials or
`documents you relied on, other than what is listed
`in paragraph 16 and the following bullet points,
`in preparing your declaration?
` A Not as I sit here today.
` Q And then I'm going to -- let's turn to
`Exhibit 2003 in the 714 IPR in which the '084
`patent was at issue, and I'm going to have the
`same question. Let's turn to page -- it's page 10
`this time.
` A I'm there.
` Q Paragraph 16 of Exhibit 2003. Other than
`the materials identified in paragraph 16 and the
`following bullet points, what other materials, if
`any, did you consider in forming the opinions
`expressed in Exhibit 2003?
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`11 of your -- let's start with the 715 IPR. This
`is the '327 patent, Exhibit 2003.
` A I'm there.
` Q And here it's a section titled "Materials
`Considered." Do you see that?
` A Yes.
` Q And this Materials Considered was made in
`connection with the declaration you provided to
`support the patent owner's response for the '327
`patent, correct?
` A That is correct.
` MR. STEPHENS: Objection. Form.
`BY MR. OKANO:
` Q So I'm looking at paragraph 16, "Some
`materials that I've reviewed in preparing this
`declaration include the following documents," and
`then you list a number of documents. Do you see
`that?
` A Yes.
` Q So other than the materials identified in
`the bullet points that follow, what other
`materials did you consider in forming your
`
` A I can't think of any beyond what's listed
`here.
` MR. STEPHENS: Could we pause for a
`moment?
` MR. OKANO: Yeah.
` MR. STEPHENS: The realtime is not
`following for me.
` (Off the record.)
`BY MR. OKANO:
` Q Okay. Since we're looking at the '084
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`declaration, why don't we just continue with this
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` A Sure.
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` Q Actually, let's look at the '084 patent
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`instead.
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` A Sure.
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` Q So I understand you provided a number of
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`opinions on action spots, right, the term "action
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`spots" --
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` A That's correct.
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` Q -- as that is recited by claims of the
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`'327 and '084 patents?
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`Transcript of Patrick D. McDaniel, Ph.D.
`Conducted on March 6, 2020
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` A Yes.
` Q Let's turn to claim 1 of the '084 patent,
`and this is Exhibit 1001, and I'll provide that to
`you, but we don't need to attach it to the record.
` MR. OKANO: And, Counsel, I assume -- do
`you want a copy of the patents?
` MR. STEPHENS: I'm okay. Thank you.
`BY MR. OKANO:
` Q Okay. So let's look at claim 1 of the
`'084 patent, and are you there?
` A I'm there.
` Q Okay. And there is the second limitation
`of the claim, begins with or cites "determine at
`least one action spot within a predetermined
`distance from the current location of the first
`mobile device, the at least one action spot
`corresponding to a location where at least one
`second mobile device has engaged in at least one
`documenting action, the documenting action
`including at least one of capturing images,
`capturing videos and transmitting messages." Do
`you see that?
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`5 (17 to 20)
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`paragraph 35 through 42.
` Q So what, you know, in your own -- with
`your declaration in front of you, I'm just asking,
`what does it mean to determine an action spot?
` A It's to look at -- well, so I'll just go
`to paragraph 39, specifically claims 1, 10, 13 of
`the '327 the patent recite language to determine
`at least one action spot in the context of the
`definition provided on column 2, 63 through 65.
`This requires that the determination of "a
`location or event where at least one activity is
`occurring relative to the current location of
`another mobile device," and it goes on from there.
` Q Where does it -- turning to claim 1 of the
`'084 patent, where is the -- where are you getting
`the language "is occurring" from?
` A Well, it's coming from the definition of
`determining the action spot from, for example,
`column 2, 63 through 65, as well as the...
` Q Well, we can look at the -- we can look
`at -- if you're referring to 2, 63 to 65, we can
`look at the '327 patent.
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` A Yeah, sorry. I'm just going back and
` A Yes.
`forth on you. I'm sorry.
` Q And there's a similar limitation in the
` Q No, that's fine. I mean, these are
`independent claims of the '327 patent, right?
`similar.
` MR. STEPHENS: Objection. Form.
` A It's the same.
` A The claim 1 -- well, do we want to just --
`do you want to maybe narrow that down? Do you
` Q It's not an issue for me. We can look at
`want to --
`the '327 patent.
` A Okay. I see what you're saying.
`BY MR. OKANO:
` Q And does that language talk about
` Q There's a similar limitation requiring
`determining an action spot or just an action spot,
`determining an action spot?
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` A Correct.
`at column 2, 63 through 65, of the '327 patent?
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` A Well, it says -- it says what's required
` Q Yeah, it doesn't need to be -- not a trick
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`when determining an action spot.
`question.
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` Q Where in the specification at 2, 63
` So what does it mean to determine an
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`through 65, does it talk about what's required
`action spot?
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`when determining an action spot?
` MR. STEPHENS: Objection. Form.
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` A This is for something to be an action spot
` A It's laid out in my declaration. For
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`under the definition provided by the inventors.
`example -- well, I'm actually -- if we're talking
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`This says that it has to be "an event where at
`about the '084 --
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`least one activity is occurring relative to
`BY MR. OKANO:
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`current location of another mobile device."
` Q That's fine. You can use either one.
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` A It's laid out in the '327, starting around
` Q And so your interpreting refers -- what
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`Transcript of Patrick D. McDaniel, Ph.D.
`Conducted on March 6, 2020
`21
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`are you interpreting as saying "has to be"?
` A Well, this is the definition it's provided
`by and embraced by the Court for action spot.
` Q Okay. So are you relying on the Court as
`a definition or the specification to inform your
`opinion that it has to be what it lists in column
`2, 63 to 65, of the '327 patent?
` MR. STEPHENS: Objection. Form.
` A I'm using the words of the inventor in the
`specification, but it's further supported by the
`Court.
`BY MR. OKANO:
` Q Okay. And so reading 2, 63 to 65, of the
`'327, it says, "The term 'action spot' refers to a
`location or event where at least one activity is
`occurring relative to the" -- I'll slow down --
`"current location of another mobile device."
` Where does it say "has to be" in that, or
`where are you getting "has to be" from the words
`of the specification?
` A It's very clear. The sentence says this
`is what an action spot is. It's laying out what
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`6 (21 to 24)
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`action spot based on activity.
` Q Where in the specification does -- and we
`can talk about -- you can look at either the '327
`or the '084 patent. Does the specification
`discuss how this determination occurs?
` A (Reviewing.) The determination step is
`identified in columns 3 and 4.
` Q Of the '327 patent?
` A Yeah, '327 patent. (Reviewing.) And the
`determination step is also identified in Figure 1,
`step 1030. I think it's mentioned a couple other
`times.
` Q So I understand you've identified the
`determine step in Figure 1, 1030, and you have
`said the determine step is identified in columns 3
`and 4. But my question, I guess, is more now -- I
`guess now my question is, what is the determining
`step rather than just -- I see where it is, but
`what is the determining step?
` MR. STEPHENS: Objection. Form.
` A It's the process of looking at the
`activity and figuring out which ones meet the
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`definition of the action spot. For example, in
`the definition of action spot is, and that
`column 4 it says, "For example, the processor can
`definition includes one activity that is occurring
`determine the at least one action spot as the
`relative to the current location of another mobile
`location where at least one other mobile device is
`device.
`composing an email, composing a text message,
` Q Okay. So that's an action spot, right?
`messaging on an instant messenger application,
`So your opinion is that column 2, 63 to 65,
`posting messages, pictures or videos on a social
`provides a definition of what an action spot is.
`networking site."
`So where in 2, 63 to 65 -- oh, strike that.
`BY MR. OKANO:
`Strike that, sorry.
` So 2, 63 to 65, of the '327 patent talks
` Q Sorry. What line are you looking at?
`0
` A I'm sorry. Line 4. It just gives an
`about an action spot. Where are you getting your
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`example.
`interpretation of what it means to determine an
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`action spot?
` Q Okay. You know, thinking -- you
`13
` A From -- as laid out here, again, in pages
`understand the -- you know, you've provided an
`14
`25 and on, the determination is determining
`opinion, and the earliest possible priority date
`15
`whether an activity is occurring relative to the
`of the '327 patent is August 27, 2010. You agree
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`current location of a mobile device. That's what
`with that?
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`the specification says.
` A (Reviewing.) That's correct.
`18
` Q What is your understanding of what a
` Q You pointed me to a part of the '327
`19
`determination means in the claim?
`patent that said, "the processor can" -- you know,
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` A It's to determine whether something is an
`reading from line 4 on column 4, "the processor
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`action spot, to identify something that is an
`can determine the at least one action spot as the
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`7 (25 to 28)
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`Transcript of Patrick D. McDaniel, Ph.D.
`Conducted on March 6, 2020
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`location where at least one other mobile device is
`composing an email, composing a text message,
`messaging on an instant messenger application,"
`et cetera.
` In the 2010 time frame, were you aware of
`processors that could determine, or applications,
`whether another mobile device was in the process
`of composing an e-mail?
` MR. STEPHENS: Objection. Form.
` A I'm not sure I get the question. Could
`you say that one again?
`BY MR. OKANO:
` Q Let's just focus on "the processor can
`determine the at least one action spot as the
`location where at least one other mobile device is
`composing an email."
` A Mm-hmm (affirmative).
` Q Do you understand that to say that the
`other mobile device is in the process of -- hasn't
`sent the e-mail, is composing, is writing, is in
`the process of drafting the e-mail?
` I mean, is that how you understand that
`
`that would allow, you know, a user to determine
`whether other users were in the process of
`composing e-mails?
` MR. STEPHENS: Objection. Form.
` A Yeah, I haven't really thought about that.
`I'd have to think about it.
`BY MR. OKANO:
` Q So sitting here today, you don't know one
`way or the other whether there were applications
`in 2010 that allowed, you know, the user of one
`mobile phone to determine whether the user of
`another mobile phone was in the process of
`composing an e-mail?
` A Well, as somebody skilled in the art, it
`would certainly be possible. I don't know of any
`specific application that did it.
` Q So, I mean, even when you say it would be
`possible, I mean, as one skilled in the art, how
`would an application have been able to do that in
`the 2010 time frame?
` A Well, think about text messaging, you
`know, when you're texting with -- when I'm texting
`28
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`26
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`part of the specification, or do you have a
`different understanding?
` A Composing an e-mail is composing an
`e-mail. Seems that would be something that was
`happening in realtime.
` Q Okay. So this is saying that the
`processor is able to determine a location where
`another mobile device is composing an e-mail in
`realtime, but hasn't sent it yet?
` A Composing an e-mail would be composing an
`e-mail. There are other things. Posting messages
`might be posting e-mail as well. So there are
`other parts of that sentence which might include a
`case where the activity has already sent the
`e-mail.
` Q But this one, the "is composing an email"
`is something where it hasn't actually sent the
`e-mail yet, correct?
` A That's what composing is.
` Q And so returning to my earlier question,
`back in the 2010 time frame, were you aware of
`mobile phone applications that were able to --
`
`with my wife and I send my text, the phone
`actually puts dot, dot, dot, means she's
`responding, and she's composing that text
`messaging.
` So there's -- somehow there's an
`indication in that text flow that somebody's in
`the process of composing. So somebody skilled in
`the art would see -- well, you could do the same
`thing with e-mail.
` Q And when you're talking about that text
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`application, you're talking about the iPhone from
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`today, you know, more recently, 2018, '19, '20,
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`correct?
`13
` A I don't think that's a function of the
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`phone. I think that's a function of text
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`messaging, and I think it's a fairly old feature.
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` Q But you weren't aware of any applications
`17
`in 2010 that were doing that?
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` A For e-mail, I'd have to say some -- if
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`you're really pressing, I think there were some
`20
`applications back in the early 2000s called the
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`collaborative applications, which would have
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`Transcript of Patrick D. McDaniel, Ph.D.
`Conducted on March 6, 2020
`29
`multiple people editing or sharing messaging, the
`computer-aided collaborative work, I think, is the
`name of the field, and there were a whole bunch of
`applications which would allow real live teaming,
`and there was definitely messaging. Whether it
`was e-mail or not, I'd have to look, but there
`were definitely people doing that kind of thing,
`dating back all the way 2000.
` Q And were those mobile phone applications?
` A I'd have to look. I'd have to look.
` Q And the specification doesn't describe any
`of these collaborative teaming applications or
`text messaging capabilities in the specification,
`does it?
` A Well, if you're -- it doesn't actually
`specify those particular applications.
` Q What does it tell about, you know,
`realtime ability to determine whether someone else
`is -- another mobile device is in the process of
`composing an e-mail?
` A It says that it would detect it, right
`here.
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`either go to claim 1 of the '084 or the '327
`patent. Just tell me which one.
` A Let's just do '327.
` Q Okay. So let's look at the limitation
`beginning on line 26 of column 19 of the '327
`patent. Again, this is that same determine
`limitation.
` A Mm-hmm (affirmative).
` Q Now, following the comma, you know,
`there's a determine at least one action spot. It
`says, "the at least one action spot corresponding
`to a location where at least one other mobile
`device has engaged in documenting action within a
`predetermined period of time." Do you see that?
` A Yes.
` Q So is this the same action spot that we
`were -- is this describing the same action spot
`that we were discussing, we've just been
`discussing?
` MR. STEPHENS: Objection. Form.
` A Can you be more specific?
`BY MR. OKANO:
`
`8 (29 to 32)
`
`31
`
`32
`
` Q Yeah, sorry. That was not a pristine
`question.
` Okay. So am I correct in saying that, you
`know, when we were talking about an action spot,
`you pointed me to column 2, 63 to 65, of the
`specification?
` A Right.
` Q And you said -- what is your understanding
`of an action spot? Sorry, let's repeat.
` What is your understanding of an action
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`spot?
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` A As we described, it's -- we find on column
`12
`3 that it's activity -- the term action spot
`13
`refers to a location of the mobile device -- I'm
`14
`sorry. "The action spot refers to a location or
`15
`an event where at least one activity is occurring
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`relative to current location of another mobile
`17
`device."
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` Q Okay. The first part before the period --
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`or the comma in claim 1 of the determine
`20
`limitation is determine an activity that "is"
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` Q Okay. But it doesn't provide any -- it
`doesn't provide any detail of how it would do so?
` A Wouldn't need to. Someone skilled in the
`art would know how.
` Q And was that feature available on -- you
`know, generally available on mobile phones in the
`2010 time frame?
` A I don't -- I don't know.
` Q When you say "I don't know," do you mean
`you're not aware, you weren't, you know -- do you
`believe they were available, you just don't know,
`or you're not -- are you aware of any -- you know,
`that being a common function available to mobile
`phones at the time?
` A Whether it existed, I don't know off the
`top of my head.
` Q So not whether it existed, whether it was
`a common functionality of mobile phones?
` A I don't believe it was a common function
`of mobile phones at that time.
` Q Okay. Let's turn back to claim -- I guess
`we can stay on the -- your preference, we can
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`Transcript of Patrick D. McDaniel, Ph.D.
`Conducted on March 6, 2020
`33
`
` A That's correct.
` Q And then after the comma it says, "the at
`least one action spot corresponding to a location
`where at least one other mobile device has engaged
`in documenting action within a predetermined
`period of time." Do you see that?
` A Yes.
` Q So my question is, is the claim's
`description of this -- of the action spot here the
`same action spot, you know, that we just talked
`about? Is the claim -- is the claim --
` Here, let me put the question this way:
`Is the claim adding new requirements to an action
`spot, or is the claim's recitation of "the at
`least one action spot corresponding to a location
`where at least one other mobile device has engaged
`in documenting action within an predetermined
`period of time," is that covered by your
`understanding of what an action spot is?
` MR. STEPHENS: Objection. Form.
` A It's providing detail about how it's
`determining what is occurring.
`
`9 (33 to 36)
`
`35
`
` A Right. And as the whole point of this
`patent is to try to figure out what is current is
`occurring, and so what this is specifying here as
`"has engaged" in this case, in a documenting
`action with a predetermined amount of time, is
`identifying where the action spot -- you know,
`where it attempts to determine -- sometimes it
`might be wrong, but it's trying to determine a set
`of output action spots, which is identifying
`things that are -- that are "is occurring."
` Q And so you said the point of the patent is
`to figure out what is currently occurring?
` A The whole -- the --
` MR. STEPHENS: Objection. Form.
` A The purpose of the patent, as laid out, is
`to help people find activities that are current.
`This is laid out. (Reviewing.)
` MR. STEPHENS: Counsel, we've been going
`for almost an hour. Five or ten more minutes?
` MR. OKANO: Sure.
` A (Reviewing.)
`BY MR. OKANO:
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`BY MR. OKANO:
` Q So do you believe the claim is adding
`additional requirements to an action spot, or is
`it -- sorry. Yes or no?
` MR. STEPHENS: Objection. Form.
` A I don't believe so.
`BY MR. OKANO:
` Q When you say "I don't believe so," do you
`mean that you don't think the claim is providing
`requirements on what an action spot must include?
` A I think what it's saying is how the
`process of determination uses a collection of
`inputs and identifies what are actually action
`spots. It tells -- it is a way of identifying, to
`the best of the algorithm's ability, a way to
`output a collection of action spots of activity
`that is occurring.
` Q And how does it determine whether an
`action is occurring when the claim requires just
`that the action spot correspond to a location
`where mobile devices "have engaged," in the past
`tense, in documenting actions?
`
` Q And so with your understanding, the whole
`point of the patent is to find out where things
`are currently occurring?
` A It's to help people find activities,
`action spots, that are "is occurring."
` Q Where -- and you're saying that the claim
`is specifying that it is using inputs like prior
`activities to determine where things are
`occurring?
` A Where, yes.
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` Q And where in the specification does it
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`show what this -- you know, how -- what you said
`12
`this algorithm was? Where is the algorithm?
`13
` MR. STEPHENS: Objection. Form.
`14
` A (Reviewing.) Again, this is specified
`15
`with respect to block 1030, principally in the
`16
`bottom of column 4 -- I'm sorry, the bottom of
`17
`column 3 and the top of column 4.
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`BY MR. OKANO:
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` Q Of the '327 patent?
`20
` A Right.
`21
` Q Okay. Where in, you know, the bottom of
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